NTSB opens broad investigation into deadly Amtrak train derailment

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 13, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Breaking News in the deadly train derailment in Philadelphia that left seven dead and hundreds injured. We're awaiting a live press conference from the National Transportation Safety Board on the latest findings from its investigation. Earlier this afternoon, the NTSB said, preliminary data showed the train exceeds 100 miles per hour before derailing on a curve going more than double the speed limit for that part of the track. Now we're going to keep our eye on that press conference that's supposed to take place by the NTSB in Philadelphia, the upper of your -- upper part left of your screen right there. In the meantime, Juan, you and Dana have taken this train quite often, right?


BOLLING: Number 188, 243 people on board. Remember, this was the dead of night, it was black. It crashed people can't see. Seven confirmed dead. Talk to us a little bit about that speed. The NTSB said in excess of 100 -- maybe even 107 miles per hour just before that curve that calls for --

WILLIAMS: So this was the regional train, not the Acela which is supposedly the faster train. Now, I don't know if they were on the track that are used by the Acela, but what I understand is that at this curve, as you were describing, Eric. The speed limit is about 50, but as you approach it, it's about 70, and so you can build up speed. The question is what was the engineer doing? And it's very curious that the engineer has refused to be interviewed. He came out of the emergency room -- he's alive, with a lawyer. So we don't know why he would have done that. Now, there are cameras in the front of that train and, I must tell you, from someone who rides it, you meet everybody on that train. Everybody is there. And, you know, according to the reports, a midshipman from Annapolis, lost his life in --


WILLIAMS: A guy from the AP, which (inaudible) me about him was he had two sons, 16 and 9.

BOLLING: Right, right, they're telling us, it's about a 10-minute warning. They give us a heads up for the NTSB, so we can talk about this a little bit. Dana, talk to me about that turn again. I want to stand to focus on the turn because, allegedly there -- we understand there is supposed to be some sort of auto mechanism for the trains to slow it down. So the engineer, the person driving the train falls asleep or passes out or dies, for that matter, it's supposed to slow the train down automatically. Apparently, this may never have happened.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: So I think that's one of the good reasons that we're going to stick around to listen to this press conference, because it's possible by now, since the black box was found, the NTSB actually might have more information about that. They can help figure out what happened and then if there is a problem, address it, not just in Philadelphia, but anywhere trains are active. I did think it was interesting that out of the 243 people that were on, there are very few people walked away without some sort of injury. And seven have lost their lives. One of the things you -- when you're a passenger, whether it's a train or a bus or a plane, you don't know how fast it is supposed to go, right. You put your trust in that individual and in the system and I don't know if there is any reason to find fault with human error. We don't know that yet, it might have been mechanical, so I think that listening to the press conference will be important. In the meantime, I do think that the mayor of Philadelphia, Mayor Nutter, has done his best as he can to try to coordinate efforts and I do enjoy hearing some of the stories of the heroism as a community, people coming together to help get those people out, that were available -- they were able to walk out, and to provide some water and some refreshment in order to keep them calm and comfortable. I do hope that anybody watching that is still -- there are a few that have not been identified, right. There are a couple people missing that their families have not heard from them yet and do hopefully that will be solved for them soon.

BOLLING: K.G., what do you think? What's your feeling? How are they handling it so far?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Actually, I think they are handling it really well. They are giving us a lot of information. This is something that is an evolving story. We're going to hear more from the NTSB. They have tremendous amount of experience unfortunately, handling matters like this. But you saw, you know the recovery of items, some forensics that are going to be key to putting the pieces together to determine exactly what went wrong. Was there something due to human error, was there a mechanical issue, what is it a combination of both. That's going to affect the cases going forward, and that's what I expected to be outcome of this investigations, to get some clarity and transparency about that.

BOLLING: Before we venture too far into speculation, I just point out that this morning Mayor de Blasio was on the MSNBC talking about, in context of this train derailment, that we need to spend more on infrastructure. At morning, the liberal left was talking about, we should be spending more on infrastructure, yet there's a very good likelihood or chance that this made in high-speed, rather than infrastructure.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah, we never let go -- whatever, we never left it go --


GUTFELD: Got to waste or whatever. I would rather like look at the -- tragedies like these serve as a reminder of who the first responders are. They aren't TV hosts like us or the student activists out there yelling in law enforcement, it's the paramedics who are there, it's the firemen and it's the police officers who show up as these grisly events and overcome their emotions and this -- abject fear to do the right thing. This guy, I saw him on -- one of the networks this morning. Pat Murphy, he's a democratic congressman, he was helping people. He left no one behind, and where did he learn that? From his military training.


GUTFELD: He was in the service, and that's just -- I mean, when you think about that, you know, CNN's Brooke Baldwin should realize that maybe military background does help in situations. In this case, Pat Murphy, you know, used that experience and perhaps saved many, many lives. And I think the thing that you get from this is that people that you can't forget, you can't thank these people enough that go into this stuff, while other people are running out, they are always running in.

BOLLING: In fact, there's an off-duty cop was being credited for saving a lot of people. He was happened to be there, he saw it, he ran to it, he ran to the disaster, which they are trained to do.


BOLLING: And help somewhere around 15 people out of the train that may have been --

GUILFOYLE: Reminds you of 9/11 --


BOLLING: Reminds me of -- yeah, of all the tragedies. I will tell you what this reminds me of, again, this is could -- this is pure, just conjecture at this point. There was a train derailment a few months up here in the north, north of the city. Same thing, going around the curve.


BOLLING: And the -- the engineer fell asleep or had sleep apnea at the point and then the train derails. I would -- do we -- as far as spending goes, maybe there is a more technology, maybe we should spend on technology that will keep -- or keep someone awake or let someone else know if train - - (inaudible) fall asleep or dies.

WILLIAMS: But there is technology --

BOLLING: But why they are on --

WILLIAMS: No, no, it's in there. I don't know what happened, I mean, so that's why we say it. But I mean, if there's a siren and flashing lights, if no one touches the controls for 20 seconds.

GUTFELD: Really?

BOLLING: What I understand is though, that it may not be on all trains, Juan. It may be on only the, the longer trip train, some of the shorter trip trains may not have the technology. I could be wrong, again, we're just talking about it but --

PERINO: In which case then, there might be a case for more -- a need for more infrastructure spending. I don't think this morning in the aftermath of the tragedy it was the right time to bring it up. In particular, when I think some people, including some celebrities, looked very silly suggesting it was obviously a funding problem when two hours later, they were proven wrong and we found out it was a speed problem -- excessive speed.

BOLLING: Anyone will least affect anyone's desire to take the Amtrak from New York?

PERINO: No. I still think it's the safest way to travel. One of the safest way to travel and it's one of the most -- that's an important corridor for the country, economically, between New York, Philly and D.C.

BOLLING: It happens (inaudible) -- well, it may be not the only corridor, but it happens to be the most profitable corridor for Amtrak.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: That corridor actually funds some of the most of the other cities that Amtrak --

GUILFOYLE: It's so good for jobs and for commerce, for the economy. When you think about to it, because it's a conduit between two -- you know, a number of very busy cities that allows people to be in multiple places, people like Juan, people like Dana that can be here, they can go to D.C. and it really provides a lot of extra, I think opportunity that otherwise might not be there, if you are just relying on aviation.

BOLLING: And I will tell you, a lot of people on the right are saying, well, then go ahead. Spin off the non-profitable pieces of Amtrak. As a government, keep that one, if you want, or sell that -- sell the whole, whole darn thing. They are telling us it's a, it's -- they are giving us a warning, so we're about to hear from the NTSB in just a second.

PERINO: Well, I also think that -- for the rest of the country, I think it probably is a little frustrating if you're in live in some place -- if you're in South Dakota and you think -- look, the train ever since doesn't benefit me at all, I understand that, right. Because you have to make the case at economically it's important to the region and it's for the economy. But I think the train travel actually has increased a little bit. I think that their outreach has been good. You got some great programs all around.

BOLLING: All right. Let's take a listen to the NTSB.



ROBERT SUMWALT, NTSB MEMBER: Well, good evening. My name is Robert Sumwalt and I'm a board member with the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB, as many of you know, is an independent federal agency, where charged by Congress to investigate transportation accidents, to determine the probable cause and then issue safety recommendations to try and keep these accidents from happening again. Before I go any further, I would like to offer our sincere condolences for the loss of lives and the injuries that people have sustained and our thoughts and prayers are truly with them. NTSB investigators began arriving here in Philadelphia between 4:00 and 5:00 this morning and the majority of the (inaudible) team was inflating here in Philadelphia by about 9:30 this morning. Upon arrival here on the scene, we coordinated with the local officials, the first responders and then we conducted a pretty thorough walk-through of the accident site to be able to get an idea of what we're dealing with, sort of the lay of the land.

At noon, we held an organizational meeting, where we established our investigative protocols and parties to the investigation. The investigator in charge is Mike Flanagan. Mike has over 40 years of railroad experience and he has more than 15 years of accident investigation experience with the NTSB. He is leading a multidisciplinary team of accident investigators that will be looking into the tracks. I'm talking about the train control signal system, the operations of the train, the mechanical condition of the train, including the brake system, the recorders, survival factors and emergency response. In addition to our investigative team, we have experts from the NTSB and office of transportation disaster assistance. They are here to help facilitate the needs of the victims and their families. Here's the factual information that we presently have. Last evening, Amtrak 188, an Amtrak Northeast Regional Train, departed Philadelphia's 30th Street station at 9:10 p.m. Bound for New York City's Penn station. The train consisted of one locomotive and seven passenger cars. And according to Amtrak, there were 238 passengers and a crew of five, for a total of 243 occupants of the train. At approximately 9:21 p.m., while traveling through a left-hand turn, the entire train derailed. Just moments before the derailment, the train was placed into engineer-induced braking and this means that the engineer applied full emergency -- a full emergency brake application.

Maximum authorized speed through this curve was 50 miles per hour. When the engineer induced brake application was applied, the train was traveling at approximately 106 miles per hour. Three seconds later, when the data to the recorders terminated, the train speed was 102 miles per hour. I will indicate that these are preliminary figures of speed subject to further validation, but we're pretty close on that. That's our first look at it. It's a pretty complex thing. You don't just press a button and press it and it spits out a speed. You have to measure the wheel speed and put that into a formula, but we're pretty confident that the train was traveling pretty close to those speeds, within one or two miles per hour. The train had recorders. It had forward-facing video cameras and it had an event data recorder. Both of these recorders are being sent to our laboratory for analysis in Washington, D.C., we did get this initial speeds that we just provided you with from an initial download of the event recorder. We've released the track back to Amtrak and they will begin rebuilding it very soon.

The locomotives and all but two of the train passenger cars are currently being moved to a secure location where detailed examination and documentation can occur. Throughout the next few days, the investigators will work on thoroughly documenting the accident site and gather factual information. We will be doing a more detailed documentation of the rail cars and the scene. We plan to interview the train crew and other personnel. We would like to interview passengers of the train. We will be conducting a site distance test. We'll be testing the signal system, the train control signals. We'll be testing the braking system and a detailed analysis, instead of the cursory analysis that I've mentioned earlier of the recorders. We'll be doing a very detailed download and analysis of those recorders.

Our mission is to find out not only what happened, but why it happened, so that we can prevent it from happening again. That's really what we're here for to learn from these things so that we can keep them from happening again. I suspect that our investigators will be here in Philadelphia on scene for about a week. I want to emphasize that we are not here on scene to determine the cause of the accident while we're on scene. We're not going to speculate. Our purpose for being here, I like to describe it as we are here to collect perishable evidence which is that information that will go away with the passage of time. That's really what we're here to do, is collect that information that will go away with the passage of time. We can go back and do the analysis later, but we have to capture those data very carefully now.

I feel like for just arriving on scene this morning, I feel like the preliminary information that we have is robust, but we still have a lot to get. I know that you have a lot of questions. We have a lot of questions. And our commitment to you is that as we are -- as we are discovering factual information, we will be releasing it. I will be looking for a press conference about this time tomorrow, to tell you what we've learned -- tomorrow and that's the way it works. Our investigators are out in the field, doing their jobs during the day, and they report back to me, so I can report to you. I would encourage you to follow us on Twitter. Our Twitter handle is @NTSB.

As I wrap it up, I'd like to thank the first responders for all of their efforts. They have been out here through the night, through the early morning and all day trying to secure this area. We want to thank them for their hard efforts. Now, I will call for questions. I'm going to call for questions. What I'd like for you to do is raise your hand. I will call on you and once I call on you, please state your name and your outlet.


SUMWALT: Have we talked to the engineer? The answer to that is no, but we plan to. This person has gone through a very traumatic event and we want to give him an opportunity to -- convalesce for a day or so, before we interview him. But that is certainly a high priority for us, is to interview the train crew, right here.



BOLLING: Our producers are going to continue to listen to the press conference to see if there is anything relevant that, that comes out. In the meantime, very quickly, the NTSB just announced, they had some new information for us -- the engineer applied the brake. The engineer-induced braking was applied. At the point of applying the brake, the train was going 106 miles per hour and it brought it down to 102 miles per hour. It entered a curve, and I don't understand if it entered the curve at 102 miles per hour or it was just --

PERINO: Sounded like.

BOLLING: It sounded like it, right? Which would be --


BOLLING: 52 miles per hour, faster than it was supposed to that curve was 50 mile -- called for a 50 mile an hour speed limit. He did also say that they were going to release the track back to Amtrak and allow them to rebuild the track so he gets -- the track back in shape and maybe he tell us more commute (ph) rail going forward. He said they will do some -- they will take their time over the next week or so in doing interviews with crew and passengers and they will analyze carefully, all of the data before they come -- they come up with their, with their final theory on what happened, very thorough.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. He lay -- very thorough. He laid out a very nice blueprint of how you go about an investigation like this. You can't discount the importance of (inaudible) witnesses. People are right there on the scene, they can tell you when they saw something started to change course, what was the cause for the increase in acceleration? Was that -- again, human error or wasn't some kind of mechanical defect? That is going to be crucial in terms of assessing and preventing something like this happening going forward if there's a product or manufacturing defect that has to be corrected.

BOLLING: Quick thought before we end?

GUTFELD: Interesting thing is the train left at 9:10 and it happened at 9:21, 11 minutes. What can happen in 11 minutes?



GUTFELD: You know? He didn't fall asleep.


PERINO: I would say that Mr. Sumwalt, that was an excellent spokesman, and I like to rephrase his perishable evidence, that they're there to collect that and make sure that they have everything they can to develop -- to, to finalize and investigation.

WILLIAMS: You know the -- the fact that he hit the brakes fits with what we heard from people on the train, that the train started to shutter, and people started to fly out of their seats.

BOLLING: I don't know, Juan. I still want to hear why that automatic train -- the braking mechanism wasn't --

GUILFOYLE: But as Greg said, he lost control of the train very quickly right after they left, after departure.

GUTFELD: Yeah --

GUILFOYLE: Which I think is really big point.

BOLLING: All right, we going to leave it right there. Coming up next, President Obama takes another shot at this network, Greg. What the president's Fox News obsession? Next.


GUTFELD: President Obama took another stand against evil yesterday, lashing out at ISIS, pernicious gang crime and human rights abuses and left-wing dictatorships, like Venezuela and Cuba.


GUTFELD: Just kidding. He went after Fox News, again.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I think the effort to suggest that the poor are sponges, leeches, are -- don't want to work, are lazy, you know, are undeserving, got traction. And, and look, it is still being propagated. I mean, I have to say that, you know, if you watch Fox News on a regular basis, it is a constant menu, they will find folks who make me mad.


GUTFELD: So let's analyze.

He says Fox goes out of its way to locate and then demonize the poor. For what reason? So we can kill and eat them? His criticism is absurd, because he never suggests a motive. FNC is always focused on policies that keep the poor, poor, not the poor themselves. And that's scary to progressives like Obama, who fear that their ideology will be exposed as the culprit behind so much present misery. Identity politics, welfare policies and the white liberal addiction to social intervention has helped replace enterprise with entitlement and that has hurt the poor, more than street drugs or police brutality. Which is why when FNC is critical of such policies, Obama portrays it as critical of people. It's to save his beliefs from the humiliation they so richly deserve.

And remember, it wasn't FNC who ginned up class warfare.


OBAMA: I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.

We've got to ask the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations to pay their fair share.

This is the land of opportunity. That's great. All I'm saying is -- that those who have done well, including me, should pay our fair share.

My preference and the preference of most Americans is that we ask the wealthiest few Americans to pay their fair share.


GUTFELD: This abdication of responsibility embraces the toxic retribution -- thank you, retribution of Occupy Wall Street -- there goes my tongue -- which seeks equality by crushing everyone under one boot. As a class warrior, that's Obama's Common Core.

Finally, he says we need to change the way the media reports issues.


OBAMA: If we're going to change how John Boehner and Mitch McConnell think, we're going to have to change how our body politic thinks, which means, we're going to have to change the way the media reports on these issues.


GUTFELD: Translation: Agree with me and we'll be fine. After all, the only network he castigates is the only one that doesn't buy his spiel -- hook, line and sinker. That's not an insult to us. It's a badge of honor.

So K.G…


GUTFELD: This is not the first time. This is like the 20th time. He has got after Fox. Is this wisdom or is it whining?

GUILFOYLE: He just has that varsity envy. And I know -- I mean, look, we're his biggest frustration and his biggest failure all in one. He's frustrated by us on a daily basis, but we point out the truth and then let the American people decide. Decide for yourself, you're not spoon-fed all of this stuff in the mainstream media. Look at the fact, what's really going in this country and make some informed decisions. It's unfortunate, I think it's not a good communication strategy, but we can ask my friend Dana Perino, she thinks to constantly bring something up like this, because it's demeaning and beneath the president of the United States to act like he's frustrated in the playground of politics.

GUTFELD: By the way, thank you for helping me out with the word earlier.

GUILFOYLE: You're welcome.

GUTFELD: Hey, Juan. I want to play this other sound on tape from President Obama talking about rich sending kids to private school.


OBAMA: What's happened in our economy is that, those who are doing better and better, more skilled, more educated, luckier, having greater advantages are withdrawing from sort of the commons, kids start going to private schools, kids start working out at private clubs instead of the public parks, an anti government ideology then disinvests from those common goods and those things that draw us together.


GUTFELD: Juan. Isn't he basically obscuring the idea of choice with class? That everybody should have a choice to go wherever they want to go and he is saying, if you do that, you're basically ignoring the poor.


WILLIAMS: Let me just say this, so confused here. Because remember, Barack Obama's mom sent him to a private school in Hawaii, and then he went off to Occidental and Columbia and Harvard Law.


WILLIAMS: But he is saying -- and it's a popular argument among sociology and left in Robert Putnam was there at Georgetown and he has a book all about kids and how there's -- there's less common ground and less of the ability for kids to move upward and associate --


WILLIAMS: With upper income kids. I just think that it's misbegotten and sinking because, the fact that if you have a chance, as you were saying to send your child for the best school? Am I supposed to tell you, don't send your child for the best school?

PERINO: President Obama did.

GUTFELD: Yeah. There is certain arrogance here, Dana.

PERINO: Yeah, you think?



PERINO: It was like dripping with it. I also find on that school choice thing in particular, to call out against John Boehner is absolutely unnecessary and uncalled for. John Boehner is the one who actually went to bat for the D.C. school children so that they could have a choice to go to better schools, and it was Barack Obama who wanted to block that.


PERINO: Who was hurting black children then?

GUTFELD: Good question, Dana.

Eric, OK, shouldn't other networks at this point be kind of angry that Obama never signals them out for doing their job? It's like he's basically saying, "I've got no problems with you. You guys don't bother me."

BOLLING: Right. Josh Earnest this morning was also on MSNBC, and he reiterated the fair share argument. Unbelievable. Like at some point, they say, we have to move away from it. It's the exact opposite of what President Obama's trying to say.

He not only called out John Boehner, he called out Mitch McConnell. If we're going to -- if we're going to change McConnell and Boehner. Really? They're elected. We want them in there. You can't change them. If anyone should be changing, maybe you should change a little bit, President Obama.

Private schools. He went to the best private schools, sent his kids to the best private schools.

On FOX News, rabbit ears, why are you listening to us? Were you watching? Thank you for that. We can use all the viewers, and we'll take you -- another one.

And finally, the one thing that was really crazy, society -- he called the people who worked hard and made money and have done well, society's lottery winners.


BOLLING: Not worked hard, earned, risked and won and did well. People who do well are lottery winners.

GUTFELD: All right. We've got to move on. The left is accusing the president of being sexist and a climate change denier. That's next.


GUILFOYLE: Senate Democrats have been criticizing President Obama for seeking authority to fast-track international trade deals. Over the weekend, the president addressed one of his most vocal critics on this issue, Senator Elizabeth Warren.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The truth of the matter is, is that, you know, Elizabeth is a politician like everybody else. I understand that. And on most issues, she and I deeply agree. On this one, though, her arguments don't stand the test of fact and scrutiny.


GUILFOYLE: Warren's colleague, Senator Sherrod Brown, took issue with those comments.


SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: I think the president was disrespectful to her by the way he did that. I think the president has made this more personal than he needed to.


GUILFOYLE: Brown later suggested the president was sexist for referring to Warren by first name only. He's not alone. National Organization for Women President Terry O'Neill echoed that sentiment, saying, quote, "I think it is sexist. I think the president was trying to build up his own trustworthiness on this issue by convincing us that Senator Warren's concerns are not to be taken seriously. But he did it in a sexist way."

So that's their statement. You've been shaking your head, Dana.

PERINO: Well, basically, Sherrod Brown is saying that President Obama is too thin-skinned, as if we needed a news flash. That is -- that is over and over again the problem.

I think Sherrod Brown is ridiculous, but I also think the White House made it worse by suggesting today that they deserved an apology. And they should just ignore him. It's one person in the NOW organization saying President Obama is sexist. He's not. He knows Elizabeth Warren. She used to work for him.

Hillary calls herself "Hillary." You can call somebody by their first name if you know them. That is not sexism.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, add to the list.

PERINO: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Madonna. The list goes on and on that's problematic. Bolling.

BOLLING: I agree with Dana. I don't think he was sexist at all. He's on a familiar basis with Senator Warren. He can call her Elizabeth if he wants. O'Reilly would call her "Warren," and then everybody would be ticked off about that.

GUILFOYLE: He could call you "Perino." Does he call you that?

PERINO: He does not. I don't know what he's going to call me tomorrow, though.


PERINO: Might not be very nice.

GUILFOYLE: I just thought of something -- very interesting.

All right, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Not sexist, huh? Look at this, the right here is defending President Obama.

Look, this is about a trade deal, and those guys are going at it, you know, hardball.

GUTFELD: This is the -- this is the climax of identity politics. It's inevitably you're going to devour your own. Because the path is never about unifying a group of people. The end result can only be chaos. Because everybody starts separating and saying, "No, you're sexist. No, you're misogynist. No, you're racist." It's like a snake eating its own tail, and I enjoy every minute of it.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting.

PERINO: If I could -- could I just say one last thing?


PERINO: The story about the sexism comment actually eclipsed The New York Times headline, which is that President Obama was handed a major defeat on a trade deal, not by Republicans yesterday but by his -- people in his own party. It was the Democrats. But the Republicans are...

BOLLING: So they're out there. They're twisting and saying...

PERINO: It's better for them to be called a sexist than a failure.

BOLLING: That's interesting.

PERINO: In today's news cycle.

WILLIAMS: But as you know, things have turned around.

PERINO: Yes, you know why? Because Mitch McConnell, Senator McConnell knows how to run the Senate.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Let's roll on that block.

Big names, 2016, the Republican candidates are weighing in on foreign policy (UNINTELLIGIBLE). That's next.


PERINO: Foreign policy has come to the forefront in the 2016 presidential race. And earlier today, Senator Marco Rubio laid out what his foreign policy doctrine would be if he wins the White House.


SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: America plays a part on the world stage for which there is no understudy. When we fail to lead with strength and principle, there is no other country, friend or foe, who is willing or able to take our place. And the result is chaos.

It is up to our next president to right the wrongs done by our current one. It is up to our next president to properly fund and modernize our military. It is up to our next president to restore our people's faith in the promise and the power of the American ideal.


PERINO: Yesterday, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who is likely to announce a run, was asked about his views on the 2003 invasion of Iraq and said this.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I think President Bush made the best decision he could at the time, given that his intelligence community was telling him that that there was WMD and there were the threats right there in Iraq. But I don't think you can honestly say that if we knew then that there was no WMD that the country should gave gone to war.

But I want to directly answer your question, because that's what I do. If we knew then what we know now and I were the president of the United States, I wouldn't have gone to war. But, you know, we don't get to replay history.


PERINO: And Jeb Bush clarified his stance after misunderstanding a question about the Iraq war and whether we would have invaded given what we know now, "now" being the key word. Here's Jeb.


JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): I interpreted the question wrong, I guess. I was talking about, given what people knew then, would you have done it, rather than knowing what we know now. And knowing what we know now, you know, clearly there were mistakes. My brother has admitted this. And we have to learn from that.

SEAN HANNITY, RADIO HOST: So, in other words, in 20/20 hindsight, you would make a different decision?

BUSH: Yes. I don't know what that decision would have been. That's a hypothetical. But the simple fact is, mistakes were made.


PERINO: Kimberly, I don't understand this controversy, because now it seems to me everybody is on the same page once the misunderstanding is understood.

Can we now move on to see, like, what the new doctrines would be, if it would be Rubio or Christie or Jeb or Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina?

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. And that's answering the question in a completely -- you have to go back and look. You can't just say 20/20 hindsight. Answer the question. What would you have done at the time? What would you do now, given the fact of what we know? I don't know who would really make, you know, a difference saying that. I don't see the difference...

WILLIAMS: You know...

GUILFOYLE: ... between the statement of Jeb and Chris Christie.

WILLIAMS: You know, I gave Jeb Bush the benefit of the doubt, but then he came back and said if he knew what he knew now, he's still not sure what he would do.

And I notice that it's the right wing that's really going after him on this. It's Laura Ingraham. It's people like Byron York. It's Commentary magazine. And they're saying, why is not clearly separating himself out and saying he would not have gone to war?

BOLLING: What's the drawback? Well, he did. He said mistakes -- clearly, mistakes were made. But then he couldn't say, "And no, I wouldn't do it."

GUILFOYLE: But he's answering it honestly. Maybe he's not...

PERINO: I agree. Because you don't know what the other...


BOLLING: Is it bad to say, "I would have done the same thing"?

GUILFOYLE: Is it bad to lie? What if he's just telling the truth? That's what he thinks.

BOLLING: Well, don't you -- OK, then fair enough.

GUILFOYLE: See my point?

BOLLING: Then do you have the opportunity, as someone who may not like Jeb Bush, to say, "Well, he can't make up his mind on that. What -- you know, where would he..."

PERINO: I know. What is he not making up his mind on?

BOLLING: He won't tell us if he would have gone back.

PERINO: He's saying -- because...

BOLLING: Knowing what he knows now.

PERINO: It's a hypothetical: looking back, if you had different information. If you had different information, what was that other information? Who would have known?

BOLLING: Well, I would -- here, this is what I would say: "Given what we know now, no, mistakes were made," which is what he said. "And therefore, I would not have done the same thing." That doesn't seem like it's too difficult.

PERINO: Last point?

GUTFELD: Yes, sure. In 1998 there was a unanimous vote to oust Saddam Hussein. Who was the president? Bill Clinton. Who was the first lady? Hillary. And then later we took out this deadly aggressor, someone who was responsible for genocide, harboring terrorists.

We should thank President Bush, Bill Clinton and we should thank Hillary Clinton for those decisions. And I admire what Marco Rubio said in that thing, and I think he should come over to my place.

PERINO: All right.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: More on the train derailment last night in Philadelphia. We'll be right back.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.


WILLIAMS: We're back with some final thoughts about the train derailment in Philadelphia last night. Earlier this hour, the NTSB said the train was going 106 miles per hour before the wreck and that the engineer braked moments before derailing.

Now, the question is, what about the engineer? What about his testimony? He apparently has been allowed to leave the hospital with an attorney. NTSB says no comment so far, no interview. He's convalescing for a day or two. Does that strike you as crazy?

GUTFELD: There's something going on that we don't know about, and it's too soon to tell. So, you know, I don't want to speculate.

WILLIAMS: But I'm going to say something. If he crashed my train, I'd be wanting to talk to you. I don't -- I mean, the lawyers drive me nuts on this one.

PERINO: I'd be curious, Kimberly, but isn't it important to get his firsthand account within the first little while, rather than two days later?

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. You want to get the facts as fresh and quick off the scene as you can, because then memory changes. Perhaps you get lawyers, et cetera. You want to right away get in there when the circumstances are still fresh. Like excited utterances, what do they say right after this happened? Did anybody hear anything?

BOLLING: And I simply want to know if there's an auto train control capability on this train. If there's not, there should be on all, where the engineer can't override it.

GUILFOYLE: Like some of the airplanes?

BOLLING: Like some of the airplanes, but some of the airplanes, it can be overridden.

GUILFOYLE: Right. No, I know.

BOLLING: So it should be fail-safe to ensure that none of this -- this doesn't happen again.

WILLIAMS; And it's really got to ensure nothing happens. And you think about that young man who was going to graduate from Annapolis in a few days. It is just heartbreaking. I'll tell you, you run into everybody on this train, Muhammad Ali. Everybody's on this train. It's, like, the local train between Boston and D.C. "One More Thing" up next.


WILLIAMS: All right. It's time for "One More Thing." Juan, you're first.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know what? I live in Washington, D.C., which is basically the Charlie Brown of sports towns. Half the time, the stands are filled with mostly the other team's stands. It's unbelievable. They come and they buy our seats. That's unbelievable. And you know, everybody is from somewhere else other than D.C.

But tonight -- tonight Charlie Brown gets the kick the football. Tonight, the Capitals are playing the Rangers, seventh game, NHL. Go, Caps. And the Wizards -- did they ever lose there -- they're in Atlanta, and they're playing with all their heart, but their star is injured.

So for one night, give Charlie Brown a chance. Go D.C., go D.C. Go Wiz. Go Caps.

BOLLING: All right. Greg, you're up.

GUILFOYLE: He stole your Sports Corner.

GUTFELD: Juan -- Juan, I just find it weird that you would root for the Wizards.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. There's two minutes left in the show! God!

GUTFELD: Remember this?


GUTFELD: "Greg's Celebrity Corner."



GUTFELD: Well, we are just days, weeks perhaps, away from the premier of "Entourage," and Jeremy Piven is getting in shape. He's taking up surfing classes. Let's take a look at him right now.




GUTFELD: There he is. He's in -- I believe it's Perth. He's surfing. He's waving at a super model. He's often recognized by his six-pack abs. Jeremy has been working out for this movie. He's very, very, very excited and a lot of people don't know, he's an amazing body surfer. He's lost his hair. Anyway, that's all.

BOLLING: Very good.

All right, Dana, you're up.

PERINO: OK. Do you like country music and you want to know where the Birthplace of Country Music Museum is? It's in Bristol, Virginia. And there is a new CD. It's "The Orthophonic Joy." So it's original country music songs were recorded in 1927, and now today's biggest country music singers, like Brad Paisley, Sheryl Crow, Vince Gill, they've all come together, and they're releasing this CD so you can get that.

And you can also find out about the great Rhythm and Roots Reunion, September 18 through the 20th in historic downtown Bristol. I'm going to go to that if I can, if I can get the day off.

BOLLING: Don't worry. Very good.

OK. So there was a new study released by -- hold on -- by the Citizens Council for Public Security and Criminal Justice; compiled the 50 most dangerous cities in the world. Four of them are U.S. cities: Detroit, New Orleans, Baltimore. They have a high crime rate and also soaring poverty rates and then this one, St. Louis. They have some commonalities. No. 1, crime rate high, obviously, there. Also, soaring poverty rates.

And then this one. Give me the next full screen, you guys. The last time any of these cities had a Republican mayor, 1967, 1962, 1949 and 1870. What does that tell you?


BOLLING: Go GOP in those cities.

Go ahead, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So I have something amazing from the royals. I know Greg wanted to take it, but...

GUTFELD: Kansas City?

GUILFOYLE: No, no. But this is fifth in line for the crown, Prince Harry performing a traditional New Zealand war dance called the Haka. He had only 20 minutes to learn this, and he pulled it off, I would say, magnificently. You can totally tell he's into it. So this performance is specifically known as the Army's Ngati Tumatauenga, or "Tribe of War" dance, and it's meant to honor those who have fallen in battle. Nicely done, Prince Harry.

WILLIAMS: Boy, your pronunciation was great.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

WILLIAMS: You can do it.

GUILFOYLE: I'm hooked on phonics.

WILLIAMS: I loved it.

GUTFELD: You're hooked on the royalty.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's true.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it there. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" on the D.C.- Philly train derailment coming up right now.

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