North Carolina Election Board orders new election in undecided House race

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," February 21, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


EDDIE JOHNSON, SUPERINTENDENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Jussie Smollett took advantage of the pain and anger of racism to promote his career.


MACCALLUM: What an impressive man he was today. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to “The Story.” I'm Martha MacCallum.

So, today in scathing detail, prosecutor Risa Lanier, laid out the facts of this case in a way that proves that the Chicago police given all that they knew and all that Smollett himself had said, they gave him the benefit of the doubt until they could do so no more.


RISA LANIER, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY, COOK COUNTY: Defendant Smollett, also stated, he wanted the brothers to catch his attention by calling him an "Empire" F, "Empire" N.

JUSSIE SMOLLETT, AMERICAN ACTOR, EMPIRE, FOX: They called me -- they called me --

There is no which way you cut it. I don't need some MAGA hat as the cherry on top of some racist sundae.

LANIER: Defendant Smollett, further detailed that he wanted able to attack him but not hurt him too badly, and to give him a chance to appear to fight back.

SMOLLETT: He said, "This MAGA country punches me right in the face." So, I punch his ass back.

LANIER: Smollett directed the brother's attention towards a surveillance camera on the corner which he believes would capture the incident.

SMOLLETT: I want that video found so badly. The fact that we have these fear mongrels, these people that are trying to separate us. I will never be the man that this did not happen to. I am forever changed.


MACCALLUM: Let's go to Mike Tobin with the very latest breaking there tonight in Chicago. Good evening, Mike.

MIKE TOBIN, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, the very latest, Martha, is that Smollett is out on bond. He posted $10,000 and left the courthouse here in an overwhelming crush of media.

We learned a lot of the bizarre details, and remarkable detail today through the Assistant State's Attorney Risa Lanier. Some of the things we learned is that one of the Osundario brothers who ended up key witnesses in this case, one of them was his source for the party drug, Molly. That he paid them to participate in this hoax attack and paid with a personal check.

You ran down some of the information that he directed them to beat him up but not too bad. That he wanted the whole thing to play out in front of a security camera. And his awareness of that security camera is part of what tipped police off to the idea that something was fishy.

Now, Smollett was scolded by Judge John Lyke, who said if all of this is true, it is utterly outrageous that you conjured up some of the greatest evil from our country. Specifically, the judge was referring to his use of a noose in this hoax attack.

Now, Smollett's status with the show, "Empire" appears to be unchanged thus far. His attorney announced in court that he was scheduled to shoot this afternoon and indeed, when his SUV left the courthouse here, it went to the Cinespace studios, where Empire is shot. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Mike, thank you very much. Joining me now, Reverend Gregory Livingston, president, and CEO of the Coalition for a New Chicago. And Richard Fowler, nationally syndicated radio host and Fox News contributor. Gentlemen, welcome. Thank you very much to both of you for being here tonight.


MACCALLUM: Reverend Levingston, let me start with you if I may. You say that you found his actions to be apathetic and heartless with regard to the city that you know and love of Chicago. Why do you say that?

LEVINGSTON: Well, we're just -- you know, we just had the one of the case with the Jason Van Dyke and Laquan McDonald. That video, the murder of the case, the sentencing thing that was still going through, and that wound is still fresh and unhealed in this city.

And you know, to contextualize you this way, Martha, as well, is that -- you know, there is never been trust between the black community and law enforcement in this country. We just didn't come here and get that when we got here. So, we're working on that.

So, what this case epitomized by convicting -- you know, a Chicago police officer of murder, might had some kind of start there. And so, for this young man to be so socially blind, death and apathetic, and selfish if you will, that with all of this going on and everything happening, all he could think about was a pay raise. I'm very disappointed with something that he did something so tragically silly.

MACCALLUM: It's a great point. And the superintendent of the Chicago Police Department also talked about the other crime that happens in the city. And the impact -- you know, the ignoring of all of that, and the fact that he was -- you know, sort of so selfish, as you say to ignore everything else is going on in his -- in his city. Of 550 murders in 2018 in the city of Chicago.

You know, but one of the most interesting and, you know, on disheartening things about watching all of this play out, and I think something that requires reflection on all of our parts, really. Is the interpretation of why, why he would do this, and why we live in a -- in a world that as one writer, John McWhorter has branded victimhood chic where it's more impressive to people if you have been the victim of this kind of attack, then that you have made it onto a T.V. show, that you're talented, that you're singing, that this makes a bigger mark, Richard even than that.

RICHARD FOWLER, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, thanks for having me, Martha. I think first here, I mean, if this is a hoax and I think the words are used the word "if" is because just like you and everybody and them across the country, I believe in due process. And I think Jussie deserves his day in court to prove his innocence if he's indeed innocent.

But if this is a hoax, you can't defend it. And here's why, because there are actually real crimes that happen to real people, right? They're real victims out there and these are people who I know personally. It happens in Washington, D.C., it happens in New York City, it happens in Atlanta where LGBTQ people of color are victimized.

And when you lie about it, what you do is you put all of their stories at risk. And just think about the case of Ed Buck, who is the DNC super donor who has killed two black men.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Absolutely.

FOWLER: And there's been no investigation.

MACCALLUM: No, absolutely.

FOWLER: And someone were having this conversation, you will think about the impact that it has on black bodies all across this country, especially those that are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I want to play this sound bite from Van Jones. And Reverend, I want to get your response to it first. Let's play that.



VAN JONES, HOST, CNN: This is the fall of an icon. And I don't think people understand how important he has been in the black community. To have him as a beloved character, I think did a great deal to knock back homophobia in the black community. This is a Jackie Robinson against homophobia in the black community.


MACCALLUM: Reverend, what do you think about that comparison to Jackie Robinson?

LEVINGSTON: Well I don't think it's an equivalent comparison. But what I will say this, is that he didn't make Empire, Empire made him. And it was almost like he was treating this whole hoax as if it were an episode of Empire that could be resolved in one hour -- in one hour's time minus commercials.

And what he did also is that he disrespected the people, his fan base, the straight, the gay, the black, red, yellow, rich, poor, you know. He disrespected them. I mean, he makes probably as much money in one episode as most of those folk doing one year.

And so, the greed factor there was so great. And this about him, it isn't about him being a black man, it isn't about him being a gay man, it's about him being a man without character. And I agree with Mr. Fowler, you know, he's innocent until proven guilty.

But, my common sense and what my country mother would call mother with, this didn't smell right from the beginning. And many people have said that and now with the due process of law, we're going to see that this just didn't work out the way that he said.


LEVINGSTON: And also exploiting those two young men. He had power over them.

MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, that that's a great point -- that's a great point.

LEVINGSTON: On the Van Jones comment, Martha --

MACCALLUM: Yes, go ahead.

LEVINGSTON: I think that there's something -- there's you have -- I think it's to delineate the Jamal Lyon's character from the show, and what lead Daniels of the team of -- the writers at Empire were trying to do with this character. And Jussie Smollett and the crime -- that are whatever we're dealing with here and what had went how this court case shakes out.

What his character was able to do was have a conversation about homophobia in the African-American community in a real way. The season finale ended this season with him and his HIV-positive partner coming out to their family. And in dealing with that, which is something that the black community does not talk about.

Now, with that being said, it doesn't take away from the reverend's comment. It doesn't take away from the fact that the CPD diverted resources to his case instead of cases of other cases in Chicago that deserved their attention. But this is one of those things I think of delineate the character and what the writers of Empire were trying to do. And the bad act of what we will see, what the courts say of Jussie Smollett.

MACCALLUM: But he -- you know, he went even further. He went -- he suggested that this was a politically motivated attack from MAGA supporters, who said this is Trump country, and he made it all up. And -- you know, that the ingenuity that it takes to do that, and to fly in the face of -- you know, to make those people who support the president look like they're the kind of people that would do this kind of thing. It is very difficult I think for a lot of people to take.

And I want to just point out one more piece from this piece by John McWhorter, which I thought was very well done in The Atlantic. And he says of the -- of the creator -- creating of this plot, "That anyone could feel this way and act on it in the public sphere, in a twisted way, is a kind of privilege and a sign that we have come further on race than we are often comfortable admitting."

Reverend, what do you think about that?

LEVINGSTON: Well, I think that we have made progress when it comes to race relations in this -- in this country. But here in Chicago, especially in Chicago, we've been dealing with so much for so long.

And again, it was epitomized if you will in the Jason Van Dyke and Laquan McDonald case. That he's living here in Chicago, he's benefiting from being here in Chicago, the fan base is pulling on even with the political piece. He's reaching out and trying to reach those people that will resonate with him on that with that particular point of view in terms of -- you know, anti-Trump or whatever -- however you want to talk about it.

But it -- you know, Martha, for me, you know, this was stupidity because I don't know if the guys ever watched the detective show. The paper trail he left, the cameras out.

MACCALLUM: Yes. No, I know.

LEVINGSTON: I couldn't believe this. I was like this is incredible. He did that in Streeterville. He couldn't have did that on the west side, on the south side of Chicago. Let me tell you right now. It wouldn't have happened.

And the neighborhoods where that might happen, he knew nothing about them. If you're going to do something like this man, watch an episode of Columbo or something. Get your stuff together.

FOWLER: I tend -- I will not tend to agree with -- I tend to agree that.

MACCALLUM: Sure. Quick, quick thought, Richard.

FOWLER: And I will say this, and I think the reverend is right. I think if this is not -- if this is indeed a hoax, and that's what the court case says, I think Jussie does owe the people of Chicago and the LGBTQ community and all of his fans an apology because they stuck with him when he -- they -- we -- I think that there was so -- there was such an urgency in the community to stick with him to make sure we got all the facts and everything came out.

LEVINGSTON: So, we will give him due process in the courts, and we will see what happens.


MACCALLUM: Yes, and on the part of the police department too. Even when it was -- you know, had to been pretty clear what was going on, they did their job. Gentlemen, thank you. Great to see you both.

LEVINGSTON: But Martha, with the one who did a great thing though, is that I hope because of this, the Chicago detectives did a great job that we need more detectives to deal with that clearance right here in Chicago in terms of homicides.

And so, if we're going to have more detectives because of what happened here, there can be some good that comes out of this bad deal.

MACCALLUM: Reverend Levingston, thank you very much. Richard Fowler, great to see you tonight. Thank you, gentlemen.

FOWLER: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, United States says that the woman from Alabama who joined ISIS cannot come back to the United States. Should she be allowed her lawyer, will speak with us in a moment? And Tammy Bruce, with her thoughts, next.


HODA MUTHANA, BRIDE OF AN ISIS: I hope America doesn't think I'm a threat to them. And I hope they can accept me and I'm just a normal human being who has been manipulated once and hopefully never again.


ANNOUNCER: “The Story” is brought to you by the new 2019 Ford Lincoln Nautilus



MUTHANA: We would see dead body in public. We would see kids seeing dead body in public. We would see limbs splattered on the floor. And seeing it with your own eyes really made you wake up and change.


MACCALLUM: An American-born ISIS bride now pleading to come back to the United States. The 24-year-old fled her family in Alabama back in 2014 and she headed to Syria where she married three Islamic state fighters over the years and had a son.

Hoda Muthana and her lawyers say that she's a United States citizen who wants to face the consequences now of her actions. But the President and the Secretary of State are saying absolutely not.


MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: That's a woman who inflicted enormous risk on American soldiers, on American citizens. She's a terrorist. She's not coming back. President Trump made clear that she wasn't coming back. She's not a U.S. citizen. She is not entitled to U.S. citizenship and she's not coming back to our country to pose a threat.


MACCALLUM: Hassan Shibley is an attorney for Hoda Muthana's family. Hasan, thank you very much for being with us tonight. I want to start by looking back at this tweet of hers in 2015 and she went under the Twitter name Mother Jihad.

She said Americans wake up, men and women all together. You have much to do while you live under our greatest enemy. Enough of your sleeping. Go on drive-bys and spill all of their blood or rent a big truck and drive all over them. Veterans, Patriots, Memorial, etcetera day parades, kill them. How does she defend that?

HASSAN SHIBLEY, FAMILY ATTORNEY FOR HODA MUTHANA: She doesn't. That is absolutely disgusting and sickening and shows how poisonous the hatred spewed by groups like ISIS are and we're all grateful that they're almost eradicated, thank God. The fact of the matter is that Hoda that deeply regrets the kind of person she turned into. And she's not asking for a free pass. She wants to come back and face our legal system.

Now, it is a fact we're not totally sure which tweets actually originated from her while she was over there, but she's not justifying anything right now. She wants to come back, face the legal system. We have a great legal system that we believe in, that we should all believe in. And I believe it can hold her accountable and that's all she's asking for.

MACCALLUM: Here's her response when she was asked about that tweet. Let's play that.


MUTHANA: I would still at the peak of being brainwashed, I guess, and I had people all around me that were just widowed so we were very angry not because -- I think because we were all just young girls married for the first time. Most of us, it was our first relationship and then we -- he just suddenly dies and has a big effect on you. It has -- it makes you go crazy. It makes you traumatized.


MACCALLUM: Do you think that she believes that she should be treated any differently because she's a woman rather than if she were an American man who had done this?

SHIBLEY: Well, I think she wishes she was treated as good as an American man. I mean, we all have the example of John Walker Lindh who picked up arms and fought with the Taliban against American soldiers and ultimately he was brought back as an American citizen, tried and make American --

MACCALLUM: But he was an American citizen. And her status -- she's the child of a diplomat. And you just heard Secretary of State Pompeo say that the secretary -- the State Department does not consider her to be an American citizen. She was born to a diplomat who gave up his diplomatic duty a month before she was born.

SHIBLEY: Actually, he had given up his diplomatic duties in June first which was many months before she was born. But by the time he became official, it was September 1st and still by the time she was born at the end of October, her father was not a diplomat. She had citizenship by way of her birth.

The United States Constitution guarantees citizenship to everyone born on U.S. soil who was not immune from U.S. laws. Her father was not immune from U.S. laws at the time she was born. And this is what's made this a bigger issue. This is much bigger than Hoda. It's about the power of the President to simply declare without court process, without due process that somebody is not a citizen. That's very scary. We have courts for a reason. Let's use the court system.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Good to have you here tonight, Hasan Shipley, as the case goes on. Here with more, Tammy Bruce, President of Independent Women's Voice and a Fox News Contributor. Tammy, you know, I mean, on the citizenship issue first.

TAMMY BRUCE, CONTRIBUTOR: Sure. Well, look, the timeline we can debate about. The issue is when it comes to the issue of diplomatic immunity if you will or the status of that, were they in this country on a diplomatic visa? When his work ended, did that visa expired? Did they overstay that visa? And is that issue about birthright citizenship only when you have a job? If you're here on a diplomatic visa, if you're -- are you only a diplomat if you're employed at that moment?

These I'm sure the questions the State Department has looked at. Mike Pompeo seems to be very firm in his understanding of where this stands and I think that we'll get more answers on this. But even separate from that, even if -- and this does have to be addressed because this is a unique dynamic for her.

If there are American citizens in this case, I think Ted Cruz had a bill at one point that -- because you know, you can renounce your citizenship but it has to be very specific and formal. It seems to be a renouncing of your citizenship when you flee your country, condemn it, encourage people to kill other Americans, join with the enemy, give them aid and comfort, and who knows what else to facilitate war on America and the Western world.

That should also be an obvious renouncing of your citizenship. That needs to be dealt with and that should be a very quick immediate next step.

MACCALLUM: It seems that the contract has been broken at that point.

BRUCE: I would think so. Yes.

MACCALLUM: It's treasonous activity to say that you want someone to kill - - ISIS to kill Americans abroad. What about the fact that she -- you know, she seems to sort of have this argument that you know, we were all in the same boat over there.

BRUCE: Yes. And if first relationships, it's not like this was terrorist tinder. She made a decision at her home to be a Jihadi. She wasn't going to find a boyfriend. And I take issue with this ISIS brides. These are women. I give them agency. We are in a conversation in this country about taking women seriously when it comes to what happens in their lives and the choices that we make.

We can't insist that we can run the country and run a business or be on television and impart information if when we make horrible decisions or it turns out we're very bad people that we suddenly turn in --

MACCALLUM: We're just some innocent, vulnerable girl -- exactly.

BRUCE: We're in a five-year-old suddenly and it's our first relationship, I'm -- you know, that's absurd. It's an insult to every woman. We've got to treat women seriously at every stage of what happens in their lives whoever they are. Whether we are very good and contributing to the country or if we make awful decisions, that's key. And so we can stop with the ISIS brides any more than terrorist men are ISIS husbands. We don't see them as that way.

MACCALLUM: Like the Manson Family. Tammy, thank you. Thank you very much.

BRUCE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: All right, breaking just moments ago, reports that Jussie Smollet has already gone back to work on the set of Empire.



POPE FRANCIS, HEAD OF CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): The holy people of God are watching us and wait not just a simple and expected conviction but concrete and efficient measures.


MACCALLUM: so the world is looking to Pope Francis for a zero-tolerance policy to clear the decks of any priests who are guilty of sexual abuse or of cover-ups.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that it's too little too late. These are very weak proposals. They don't include zero tolerance. That's not good enough.


MACCALLUM: Today's theme of the four-day Vatican meeting, responsibility. The 190 church leaders then divided into small group discussions to discuss 21 reflection points on punishing predators and protecting children. Joining me now Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute Scholar and Fox News Contributor and Mitchell Garabedian, an attorney representing clergy abuse victims.

You know there is some -- there are some strong points among these 21 points but I think in terms of the overall message and the way that it's being presented, I think people are hungry to hear you know, if you abuse a child, you will go directly to law enforcement and you'll be kicked out of the church and you know, there is no tolerance for anything other than celibacy once you take your vows. And if you don't want to do that, then you have to leave the church and go live as a free independent person. Marc?

MARC THIESSEN, CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. I mean, look, Pope Francis said at the beginning of the -- before this abuse summit began that we should lower our expectations. I don't know how much lower than zero you can go but my expectations are clearly low of this and their meeting them. I mean, the reality is that there should be zero tolerance for any sort of abuse.

But it's not just the question of cracking down on abuse because a lot of steps have been taken to crack down on abuse. What the church is not doing and avoiding is accountability and responsibility for the people who covered up that abuse. There are bishops and -- you know, Cardinal McCarrick has been laicized, removed from the priesthood so his punishment is basically to come like me, a layman.

I want to see him behind bars. I want to see him publicly confess his sins and repent and I want to see all the bishops like Cardinal Wuerl and the Archbishop of (ph) McElroy of San Diego --


THIESSEN: -- who were told about these abuses to confess that they were told and to repent and to leave their positions because they should not be -- they are not capable of enforcing solution when they were part of the coverup.

MACCALLUM: Mitchell, what's your reaction so far?

MITCHELL GARABEDIAN, ATTORNEY FOR CLERGY ABUSE VICTIMS: These 21 points are just more talk. They are not action at all. Each point is vague and will take years and years of interpretation by church lawyers and canonists to interpret so that they can -- they can bury the situation again.

These 21 points are just part of the coverup. Tell the truth. That's all that has to be done, Pope Francis.


GARABEDIAN: Tell the truth. We want transparency, reveal the secret documents. Order the diocese, the archdiocese, the religion artists to release all documents indicating the names of the perpetrators and names of the priests who covered it up. Defrock those priests.

Report all those priests to the criminal authorities. Stop opposing the amendment of statute of limitations in the world. Stop it.

Cease doing that just -- they -- the Catholic Church cannot self-police. Now, we're supposed to sit here and make believe that they are going to properly implement 21 vague and ambiguous rules which half of them don't make any sense. The first one is to create a handbook.


GARABEDIAN: This summit is an awareness summit.

MACCALLUM: I mean -- yes.

GARABEDIAN: We don't need an awareness summit.


MACCALLUM: No, we don't. All right. The conversation is going to go on and we will continue it with you, gentlemen. Thank you very much for being here tonight, very important.

THIESSEN: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Still ahead tonight, the untold story of Tim Tebow when we come back.


TIM TEBOW, FOOTBALL PLAYER, NEW YORK METS: Just because you have a setback it doesn't mean that you are not going to be better for it. Honestly, that could be one of the biggest blessings in your life because you have to learn how to overcome that and how to adapt. But when you do that, you are that much better for the long run.



MACCALLUM: Released just a couple of hours ago from police custody in Chicago there are several reports that are crossing tonight that say that Jussie Smollett has just returned to the set of "Empire" to finish filming the show's fifth season. According to Variety he still has one and a half episodes to go. About a week's worth of work.

Earlier today, 20th Century Fox which stood by Smollett during the beginning of this investigation released a new statement that reads, "We are evaluating the situation and we are considering our options."

Did you see the stunning courtroom scene today in North Carolina where the last race of the midterms is still being decided? The candidate accused of voter fraud broke down as his son said he had warned him that something was just not right.

Trace Gallagher has the whole story for us tonight from our West Coast newsroom. Hi, Trace.


Now for the first time in North Carolina history, the state is ordering a brand-new election and it was a unanimous 5 to zero vote by the board of elections.

GOP candidate Mark Harris held 905 vote lead over his Democratic opponent Dan McCready, and Harris had long been calling for the board to certify him the winner.

But then, during a four-day hearing, detailed evidence was laid out pointing to ballot fraud. And Leslie McCrae Dowless, a political operative for Harris and convicted felon has been charged with hiring a team to harvest absentee ballots, paying between $2 and $3 a vote.

And the New York Times further reported that Mark Harris won 61 percent of the absentee ballots even though registered Republicans only accounted for 19 percent of the ballots submitted.

Mark Harris' son John who is an attorney also testified at the hearing that he repeatedly warned his father about potential illegal actions. Watch.


JOHN HARRIS, ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY: I love my dad. I love my mom. OK? I certainly have no vendetta against them. No family scores to settle. OK? I figured they made mistakes in this process and they certainly did things differently than I would have done them.


GALLAGHER: You could see Mark Harris in the audience crying during his son's testimony. Harris later blamed an illness as a reason he didn't take action about his son's warnings. But Harris also made a dramatic turn around. Watch him.


MARK HARRIS, R-N.C., CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Neither I, nor any of the leadership of my campaign were aware of or condoned the improper activities that have been testified to in this hearing.

Through the testimony I've listened to over the past three days, I believe a new election should be called.


GALLAGHER: Yes. The ninth congressional district is among the poorest in North Carolina and it's already been without a representative for a few months. Now an election, including primaries will start all over again and it's unclear if Mark Harris will actually be a candidate. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. What a story that is. Trace Gallagher in Los Angeles.

So, Kamala Harris' latest comments on race not sitting too well with one member of her family, her own father who just vowed to disassociate himself really over the comments that she made about pot-smoking. He said it was a travesty, when we come back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say you oppose legalizing marijuana.

HARRIS: That's not true.


HARRIS: And, look, I joke about it and have joked. Half of my family is from Jamaica. Are you kidding me?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say you oppose legalizing weed.

HARRIS: That's not true.


HARRIS: And, look, I joke about it. And have joked. Half of my family is from Jamaica. Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever smoked?

HARRIS: I have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Like in college?


HARRIS: And I inhaled. I did inhale.


MACCALLUM: Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris' father, Donald, wasn't too happy about that revelation. The Stanford University professor emeritus saying this about his daughter's comments.

He said, "My dear departed grandmothers, as well as my deceased parents must be turning over in their grave right now to see their family's name, reputation, and proud Jamaican identity being connected in any way, jokingly or not, with the fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking, joy- seeker and in the pursuit of identity politics. Speaking for myself and my immediate Jamaican family, we wish to categorically disassociate ourselves from this travesty."

Joining me now Guy Benson, host of Benson and Harf on Fox News radio, and Robert Zimmerman a Democratic strategist and DNC committee member. Gentlemen, great to have both of you with us.



MACCALLUM: Robert, you know, I mean, every family has their issues and I think his father separated himself from their family many years ago but was, I guess, a presence in their lives growing up. That's pretty tough stuff.

ZIMMERMAN: You know, it sounds like the conversation a lot of parents have with their children. And obviously, while you have to respect how strongly he feels. You know, you look at the reality of it. First of all, maybe he should just lighten up or light up, I'm not sure which. Hopefully lighten up about it because she was doing a talk radio show.

The bottom line is Kamala Harris' story is the story of the American dream. She is the daughter of two immigrant parents, her father from Jamaica, her mother from India. She is an extraordinarily well-educated family. She has risen to become a U.S. senator, possibly the next president.

And, in fact, we should not really and I know the right wing will focus on those comments and try to create an issue because we are dealing with an administration it's the most anti-family values administration in our country's history and that's really what the debate is going to be about in 2020.


MACCALLUM: I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure that last comment was fair and I agree with you that it wasn't fair for her father to do what he did but he did, Guy. And he talked -- I thought the interesting part, actually was at the end when he talked about not wanting it to be -- not wanting to, you know, partake in any identity politics. He saw her comment as sort of grasping on to identity politics and trying to relate in that way.

BENSON: Yes. So, Robert, I want to congratulate you for somehow turning an answer about Kamala Harris and her father into an attack on Donald Trump.


ZIMMERMAN: Sticking with the issues, Guy.

MACCALLUM: Into slamming of it.

BENSON: That is impressive.

MACCALLUM: Go ahead, Guy.

BENSON: I was just going to say that's some impressive jujitsu there. Look, I saw the response from the dad and I was like whoa, OK.


BENSON: There are some family issues here obviously. This seemed like an overreaction. What do you think she was pandering or playing to some sort of stereotype to go the relative's rolling over in their graves route on your daughter who is running for president struck me as, perhaps, a bit much.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, it's the kind of thing you wish he had picked up the phone and said it to her. I'm sure she wishes that, rather than writing an essay about it that was published.


MACCALLUM: He said he is going to try to stay out of the whole thing from now on and I'm sure --


ZIMMERMAN: You know, but I think --

MACCALLUM: -- she will be relieved to hear that.

ZIMMERMAN: -- it's reflective of a lot of debate to take place in families across America about values and issues.


MACCALLUM: Yes. At the dinner table, Robert.

ZIMMERMAN: That's right.

MACCALLUM: At the dinner table. Not in this way. This is very -- it's different. It is reflective of that but not in this public way.


MACCALLUM: I also want to talk about Joe Biden. Because you know, obviously there is a lot of discussion about whether or not he is going to get in. And I think the feeling has been that it's very likely.

And then look at this quote from NBC that we want to put up here. It says, "Even as he weighs a campaign to unseat President Donald Trump, Biden is carefully considering a crucial question what happens when the president or his top allies try to make his family an issue." From a political strategist on NBC. Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: You know, anyone who tries to challenge Joe Biden and his commitment to families and to attack his family personally is going to face immediate and well deserves political doom. He has a -- you can't doubt Joe Biden's sincerity. You can't doubt his devotion to his family and of course, his family has contributed greatly to our country. His children have all made important contributions. So, I think that's the kind of attack that you are going to see --


MACCALLUM: Do you think he is going to run, Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm sorry?

MACCALLUM: Do you think he is going to run ultimately.

ZIMMERMAN: Actually, my impression is he is going to run. It seems to be moving in that direction and I think frankly the issues about what's best for America's families is going to be the focus in 2020. And we're ready for that debate.


BENSON: He certainly is taking his time. First of all, I think attacking personally the Biden family would be catastrophic mistake.


BENSON: This is a man and Joe Biden who has lost. He has buried two children.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.


BENSON: I mean, that is just heart-wrenching, right?

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

BENSON: So that's off the table. When it comes up to the question that you followed with about whether he is going to run. It seems like every couple of weeks we've gotten dribs and drabs of story about he is 90 percent there. Or he's 95 percent there.

He is just talking to a few more movers and shakers or officials and donors. That's fine. It's still, you know, February here. But at some point people are going to start to see these he is still thinking about it - stories - and wonder if his heart is actually in it.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, gentlemen. Good to see you both. Robert and Guy.

ZIMMERMAN: I can't wait to hear what my dad is going to say about this segment.

MACCALLUM: He is going to write an essay about it. Put it out on the internet.

ZIMMERMAN: I'm sure he will.


BENSON: Right. A press release.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, gentlemen.

BENSON: A brutal press release.

ZIMMERMAN: He'll be on your side, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next, the exclusive untold story of Tim Tebow, the super star athlete gets very candid about his dedication to service. His engagement, and a couple of other good things when we come back.


TEBOW: Although I'm extremely competitive and driven in sports, you also got to remember that it's just a game. And that life is more important. And people are more important and the way that you can impact them is more important.


MACCALLUM: Tim Tebow is a Heisman Trophy winning quarterback who is now working on a professional basic career who can also add movie producer and fiance to Miss Universe to his credit. Tonight, Tim Tebow shares his untold story.


TEBOW: I think most of life is about perspective. I really do. I feel like I have had the privilege of trying to learn that at an early age although it's really hard to keep perspective.

You come with me to Uganda or the Philippines or Thailand or some of these places at some of our orphanages or at hospital and it helps you gain perspective really quick because you realized how blessed you are and you realized, wait a second. I'm not going to throw a pity party because I can't continue to play a game the way I want to because there are more important things in life.

And although I'm extremely competitive and driven in sports, you also got to remember that it's just a game. And that life is more important. And people are more important. And the way that you can impact them is more important.

MACCALLUM: You grew up. Your parents were missionaries in the Philippines. So your whole life you've been surrounded by people who were less fortunate than you, more fortunate than you. How much does that guide you that experience and you do keep going back?

TEBOW: To be able to have a mom and dad that didn't tell us about loving people. They showed us what loving people really looked like. And to have a dad that has given so much of his life to serving people that could truly never do a thing for him and he never wanted anything in return.

He just gave and he loved and still to this day at 72 years of age he just got back from the Philippines, going there with Parkinson's and still loving people, still fighting for people, still helping people and it's just the greatest example that a boy could ever ask for.

MACCALLUM: You say that a lot, this belief that giving something to people who could never give you anything in return. And I know that you just got engaged.


MACCALLUM: You say you saw that quality in your fiance who is Miss Universe, beautiful young woman. Talk to me about finding that in her? Because you said it wasn't that easy for you to meet someone.

TEBOW: We met through Night to Shine which is one of our initiative. It's a worldwide prom for people with special needs and her half-sister has severe special needs. She was kind of the match maker for us. And it's just, you know, certain things that people think we need to have in common like she is in to pageants and I was in sports.

She told us she had never been to a baseball or a football game. But we didn't care. What was most important for us is the deepest things. And our faith and our values and the way we want to treat people and the way we love our family and I think that's what really drew us together.

MACCALLUM: You had dyslexia. You struggle with this --


TEBOW: Still do.

MACCALLUM: Still do. That's the way it works. What kind of impact did that have on your life and what would you say to other young people who struggle with that?

TEBOW: It was very disappointing for a while when I was young. Like, dang it, like, I would work hard on it but I wouldn't get certain things. And then my mom took me to get tested and we found out I had dyslexia and then I met a tutor that helped me figure out how I learned best.

And I figure out I'm a kinesthetic learner, so I started to adjust. I started to do this with playbooks. I started to do with math. I started to do with English. All these things of how we wanted to learn.

By the time I got to the University of Florida which is a very good academic school, I knew how I learned. I knew how I would want to study. I knew how I would want to practice. I knew how I could overcome these obstacles.

That's also something I love sharing with young people is that just because you have a setback, it doesn't mean that you are not going to be better for it. Honestly, that could be one of the biggest blessings in your life because you have to learn how to overcome that and how to adapt. But when you do that, you are that much better for the long run.

MACCALLUM: I want to talk to you about football and about those obstacles and about Aaron Hernandez who you played with in Florida and tried to help to some extent. There is a moment that was captured on a mic with between you and Tom Brady talking about trying to help him.

Now that we know more about what was going on with him and the damage that his brain had sustained and the challenges that he had with his own sexuality and all of that, what do you think about him now looking back.

TEBOW: Well, I think that's a really deep big question. Aaron was someone that we loved. That I loved. That we supported. You know, we are all fighting different battles in our life.

Aaron was someone that for six months in a row did devotional with me and Coach Meyer. And he was someone that honestly probably went to the hospital to visit kids with me as much as any other teammate that I've ever had.

But, you know, there is all things that we're all dealing with and you don't know what someone is going through. That's why it's so important to be there to help people because you don't know what's going on in the inside. And so, I just know that that was someone that we loved and cared for very deeply.

MACCALLUM: How did you feel about it when you heard what happened?

TEBOW: Well, I mean, the whole situation is just hard. And, you know, it hurts. And it's a lot to take in. And you know, I had been around him a good amount around that time. It's hard.

MACCALLUM: So you started something that you are producing a movie.


MACCALLUM: "Run the Race." What is "Run the Race" and why did you decide that this is a story you wanted to tell?

TEBOW: I never had the goal of getting into the movie industry and still really don't. I just had the goal of impacting people and encouraging people and inspiring young people and I felt like this -- it could be an avenue we could do that.

This movie was about that journey of two brothers about how so many other people affect their lives and about loyalty but, you know, ultimately, about faith. And about understanding there is a purpose and a plan for our lives and why we are here. Hopefully the people that see it will be able to walk away encouraged.

MACCALLUM: Tim Tebow, thank you.

TEBOW: Thank you so much.

MACCALLUM: Great talking to you tonight.

TEBOW: I appreciate it. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Thank you so much for coming.


MACCALLUM: Such a good guy. I really enjoyed talking to him. His movie is called "Run the Race" as we said. And it's in movie theaters tomorrow.

Don't forget to subscribe to The Untold Story podcast on or wherever you listen. Tim Tebow's full interview is available to download on my podcast now, the Untold Story.

And that is “The Story” of this Thursday night. We'll see you back here Monday.

Tucker's up next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2019 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2019 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.