New low for left at anti-Trump protests
Cursing children and Trump KKK effigy seen at weekend protests; reaction on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," May 2, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, GUEST HOST: Breaking tonight, disturbing displays coming to light on the campaign trail. New video emerging of children shouting expletives at Trump supporters and what happened then.
Welcome everybody to "The Kelly File" tonight. I'm Martha MacCallum in for Megyn Kelly. And that is not our only big story this evening as we look ahead to tomorrow night's primary in Indiana. It is clear that this is a contest that's likely to reshape this race, it's just a matter of how it all turns out. We begin with a troubling and growing by product bill of this campaign as anti-Trump protests spreading across the country over the weekend. Last week it was California where police cruisers were smashed. And Trump's supporters physically attacked but now some on the Left taking things to a new law as a group of children joined by some clearly consenting adults dropped the F-bomb on Trump supporters as they made their way to a rally in Fort Wayne, Indiana yesterday.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BLEEP)
(INAUDIBLE)
(BLEEP) (SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Wow! Nomiki Konst, Bernie Sanders supporters joins us now. Founder and executive director of the Accountability Project. And David Wohl is a Trump supporter and attorney. Welcome to you both.
NOMIKI KONST, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: Thanks, Martha.
DAVID WOHL, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Hi, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Nomiki, can I start with you? What was your reaction?
KONST: So, listen, I mean, when you have a presidential candidate who is throwing out hatred. He's saying to massive groups of separate movements and groups of people who don't have power. That they're not to be respected, they're not to be included in American Democratic process. When he's saying we should build a wall, when he's saying that all Mexicans are rapist and criminals, you're bound to get responses from all different spectrums. These are not professional activist, these aren't professional politicians, these are angry people and also not indicative of the entire movement.
I mean, there are thousands of peaceful protesters out there who are outraged of a presidential candidate. Somebody who is going to represent our country's interests internationally who wants to negotiate deals internationally is throwing out hateful rhetoric with his own people. And to people who want to come here for a better life. So, sure, these are -- these are a small group of people that do not reflect the overall rhetoric of the group of protesters. MACCALLUM: All right. David, you're a Trump supporter. I would imagine that you heard some things that you felt were inaccurate what Nomiki just said. So, I'll let you address that. And also, this phenomenon that we're seeing on the street. And granted, this is a small group but it's disturbing and it tops on to something that I think on fall size, you have to say, what's going on?
WOHL: Well, Martha, the reality is, any parent who is thinking about exploiting or endangering their child for political gain is those parents who were think again, it's a felony, it can result in jail time, it could result in your child being picked up by child protective services, it's a disastrously bad idea. Also Martha, on that political level, I mean, these are presumptively Hillary Clinton voters, supporters, the parents of these children.
MACCALLUM: One of the kids has a Bernie t-shirt on and, you know, I mean, obviously they're not a supporting Donald Trump. That's a win out.
WOHL: Well, they're going to vote. They're going to vote for the Democrat candidate who is going to be Hillary Clinton. And until she comes out and condemns this, condemns it completely and unequivocally, then she is going to own this type of behavior and she's going to pay for it down the road and it's going to be a cool, cool --
KONST: Oh, come on!
WOHL: -- summer for Hillary until she really comes -- and let people know this is unacceptable.
MACCALLUM: Hold on. You know, when you were suggesting David that this is abusive to encourage their children as one person who appears to be a mom in this group. You were kind of snickering to that, Nomiki. And I don't understand that because when I look at these kids, I think, I feel sorry, it makes me sad. I mean, who teaches children to stand on the edge of this street and yelled the f-bomb at people as they're going by to go to a political rally. I mean, don't you think that, it's just wrong. Who does that?
KONST: Well, it's not a felony. Let's make it -- I was snickering because -- David, you're a lawyer, that's not a felony and it's outrageous to say that. WOHL: You know, how's a felony, if someone, one of those cars throw something at one of those kids, the person in the car gets prosecuted --
(CROSSTALK)
KONST: That's not what happened though. You have a responsibility --
WOHL: -- and the parents who endangered the child gets prosecuted.
KONST: Okay. Okay.
WOHL: I've been doing this for 25 years. Believe me.
MACCALLUM: Well, you know, I don't know if it is a felony but I can tell you that it's inappropriate. It's unethical.
KONST: Sure.
MACCALLUM: And to set-up kids and allow them to yell those kinds of words where they're holding pollsters that say, no hate.
KONST: Yes.
MACCALLUM: Are you kidding me?
KONST: Sure. Responsible parenting --
MACCALLUM: I mean, what kind of method is that?
KONST: Absolutely responsible parenting. But let's not get distracted here. There's only one person running for president that has that type of rhetoric and it is that man right there, to the right of the screen who is Donald Trump and she has said much worse on a public stage nationally trying to rile up voters. He has said --
(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)
MACCALLUM: To suggest that it's -- coming to the country illegally?
WOHL: I was at this rally on Thursday in Orange County, and I'm going to tell you something right now, my daughter, my nine-year-old daughter and I couldn't get out of the parking lot because these people who were in guise as a protesters were destroying everything in sight. We're saying we hate Donald Trump so we're going to destroy police cars, we're going to lay across the street. We're not going to let anyone out.
KONST: I'm not condoning that, David.
WOHL: This is not the new Left.
KONST: I'm not condoning that.
WOHL: This is not the new violent Left.
KONST: Take responsibility for your candidate. Don't blame it on the Left, none of Bernie Sanders supporter --
WOHL: So, you're blaming Donald Trump for that kind of behavior?
KONST: -- we didn't coordinate with these people.
WOHL: You're blaming Donald Trump for that kind of behavior?
KONST: Well, I think Donald Trump saying -- hang on a second, David, when Donald Trump says that he is going to pay for the legal bills, for those in the audience who will go and attack the protesters, is the guy who wants to negotiate in Saudi Arabia?
WOHL: When did he say that?
MACCALLUM: He has said so many times that he does not -- hold on, guys. Hold on! Stop shouting at each other -- that he doesn't condone violence at these rallies or outside these rallies. And I think that really both, you know, everyone needs to acknowledge that because there is a lot of heat around this situation.
WOHL: Martha, we went to the rally on Thursday. The first thing that happened was a very loud recording that was played that said, if you see anyone creating trouble in this crowd of 30,000 people, do not touch them. Shout out. Trump, Trump, Trump. And the security or the Secret Service will come and over and take care of them and they would be very polite about it.
KONST: And now they say that. Now that they've been caught.
(CROSSTALK)
What about the punching protesters. What about the white extremists.
WOHL: There was no violence inside the rally at all. None piece of violence.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Okay. I think you both made your points. Nomiki and David, thank you very much.
KONST: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: We're going to be talking about this with our next guest coming up as well. Thank you to you both. As we mentioned the clip of these children comes as leftist activists took to the streets in cities across the United States using Donald Trump seen here holding a KKK hood in Los Angeles in their protests against deportations, police shootings and capitalism.
Trace Gallagher live with the report on this in our Westcoast Newsroom this evening. Hi, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. There was a banner at the May Day protests here in LA that read, stand with immigrants, Black Lives, Muslims, LGBTQ and low wage workers, a pretty good indicator that those who showed up came to support a variety of causes. But they also largely share a common motivator Donald Trump. Some believe the giant balloon meant, effigy of Trump meant to symbolize that he was plastic and he has no heart. Others felt he was important to maintain the piece because they believe Trump is trying to stir up the violence. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump is not going to change our community to be a hateful community full of violence. He's trying to do that. And he going to pit us against each other. We don't believe in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: That sentiment was not shared by demonstrators last week in Southern California. A Thursday protest outside of a campaign rally for Trump in Orange County led to the closing of streets, the pummeling of a police cruiser and at least one bloody confrontation. It took police and riot gears hours to regain the peace. At least 20 people were arrested, the next day in the San Francisco Bay area, hundreds of protesters tried to storm the doors of a hotel where Trump was set to address the state GOP convention. The protesters were held back, but the candidate himself was forced to pull off the freeway, jump a barrier and sneak in the back door. But ramping up the violence outside is not toning down Trump's rhetoric inside. He is still taking a tough immigration stance and promising to build that boarder wall -- Martha.
MACCALLUM: All right. Trace, thanks.
Again this is hardly the first time as Trace's pointed out that we've seen these protesters go to extremes to get their message across. Last Thursday in California nearly 20 people were arrested, some five police cars were smashed as Trace mentioned, as one Trump supporter was bloodied during these so-called demonstrations leaving one writer to wonder how one would be covered if conservatives were doing the same thing at Clinton or Sanders rallies, what would that be like and how would that be covered? Which is always a fair question to ask in these situations.
Marc Thiessen is a Fox News contributor and former chief speechwriter for President George W. Bush. Andell Brown is a civil rights attorney.
Welcome to both of you, gentlemen. Good to have with us tonight.
ANDELL BROWN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good to be with you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, Andell, let me start with you. You know, if you were seeing this kind of thing, if you know, a Clinton supporter or a Bernie Sanders supporter was wearing a Bernie Sanders t-shirt and had blood pouring down his face because somebody bashed him in the face, how do you believe that that would be covered if it were, you know, conservative activists who were doing it?
BROWN: We've seen protesters at both Sanders and Clinton rallies with the same type of violence that follows the Donald Trump rallies had not ensued.
MACCALLUM: Right.
BROWN: The common denominator is Trump and his supporters.
MACCALLUM: My question is -- my question is you have to put the shoe on the other foot and you have to ask yourself is it fair -- is it fair to say that this kind of behavior is wrong, that it's, you know, un-American? I mean, protesting is absolutely the right thing to do if you want to exercise your right to freedom of speech. But, you know, this kind of distracted behavior is just not allowed.
BROWN: When it comes to this article, which I read, I thought to myself, can I get some cracker and cheese to go with all this wine? I mean, I would expect the people on the right to come with a little bit more than calling these protests and demonstrations riots. I mean, we see more action on during spring break on South Beach. We have 52 arrests, that's more than all of these events combined.
MACCALLUM: You're okay with police officers and police vehicles that have been smashed and you think that's perfectly, it's fine, nobody should be disturbed.
BROWN: I'm not saying it's fun, but let's not blow it out of proportion and call it a riot --
MACCALLUM: Okay. We're just calling it what it is. We named exactly how many arrests happened and what the distraction was and we're getting you guys to come on and, you know, discuss it.
I'll bring in Marc Thiessen who I think believes that this was actually beneficial in some way to the Trump campaign, Marc. Explain.
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it is beneficial to the Trump campaign, but first of all, you said that it was the common denominator was Trump protester protesters. That guy that we just saw jumping on a police car was not a Trump protesters. The people who are throwing rocks at motorists were not Trump supporters. So, this is not the Trump supporters there are doing. These are the smash mouth tactics of the radical left that are not protesting what Donald Trump said, they're protesting his right to speak. They're trying to stop him from speaking. They tried to go into the hotel and break through and the police stopped them to stop him from exercising his right to free speech.
So, you do not see that happening on the right. You do not see Trump supporters going to Clinton and Sanders rallies and hurling rocks and throwing epithets and wearing sombreros and holding up their middle fingered people. This doesn't happen. It's helping Donald Trump because he couldn't have designed a better scene for himself to be his standing up against.
BROWN: Maybe they should --
MACCALLUM: So, Andell, let me ask you one more time to put the shoe on the other foot. If this were happening at Sanders and Clinton rallies, right? Would you be saying, you know, look at that's crazy right wing nut jobs who are running over this, you know, peaceful campaign.
BROWN: I don't recall Clinton or Sanders advising their supporters to knock the crap out of someone. I do recall Donald Trump doing that. And when you foster an atmosphere of violence and it follows, you can't be surprise. Everywhere he goes this violence follows and it's not happening on the other side.
MACCALLUM: All right. We have to leave it there. Do you want to have one last thought, Marc?
THIESSEN: The idea that Donald Trump is responsible for people coming in and throwing rocks is just absurd. They're coming in to his rallies, disrupting --
BROWN: Common denominator --
THIESSEN: -- him from speaking and so the people are responding to that and quite frankly the Trump protesters have been incredibly restrained because in the face of this violence they haven't done these things.
BROWN: Sure. Punching people in the face is incredibly restraint.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: That incident must covered on this network and this show. Very clearly. Thank you, Gentlemen. We'll see where this goes. It's not a good trend out there. Thanks, Gentlemen.
So we're just eight hours away now from the first polling opening in Indiana and Ted Cruz says that he will fight on even if he does not win tomorrow night in Indiana. Eric Trump here live on that.
Plus, an old rape case causing new headaches for the Republican front- runner after Mr. Trump spent the weekend promoting an endorsement for Mike Tyson. We're going to talk about this.
Greg Garrison was the prosecutor in that case. He is here next.
Plus, the White House was on defense today after the host of the Correspondents' Dinner went to an ugly place to get a laugh. We'll going to show you the fall out, you can decide. Coming up, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY WILMORE, COMEDIAN: Yo Barry, you did (bleep), did it.
Thank you very much. Good night.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Developing tonight in the final hours to the critical Indiana primary, the Cruz campaign is trying to use a Trump endorsement against him. Mr. Trump made a point this weekend of promoting the fact that boxing great Mike Tyson is endorsing him. The problem is that Tyson was convicted of rape in Indiana back in 1992 and the Cruz campaign has been hitting Trump and Tyson repeatedly.
Here is Trace Gallagher joining us once again tonight with the background and the details in this story. Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: As you recall Martha Mike Tyson served three years for raping a 17-year-old beauty pageant contestant who also taught Sunday school. At the time Donald Trump said Tyson was railroaded arguing that on the night of the rape, the victim was seen dancing with the big smile on her face, and willingly went to Mike Tyson's room. Now Trump has stirred up the controversy again by saying this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mike Tyson endorsed me. I love it. He said out a tweet. Mike, you know, all the tough guys endorse me, I like that.
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And Donald Trump says Mike Tyson is a tough guy. You know what John? I don't think rapists are tough guys. I think rapists are weak, they are bullies, and they're cowards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Ted Cruz's VP picked Carly Fiorina added this, quoting, I think it says a lot about Donald Trump's campaign and his character that he is standing up and cheering for an endorsement by Mike Tyson. Outspoken Trump supporter Roger Stone responded saying, Fiorina's remarks show that she is a racist. Now, he did not explain why. And the man who prosecuted Mike Tyson Greg Garrison who is now a conservative talk radio host, also questioned the judgment of the Trump campaign saying, quoting here, "In Indiana? Really? Did nobody in that while entourage of yours know that that snake raped a lovely kid in this town. I think I'd beef up my intelligence operation a little bit."
On "Fox News Sunday," Trump appeared to put some distance between himself and Mike Tyson saying, he didn't have a meeting with him and that he hasn't seen Tyson in years -- Martha.
MACCALLUM: All right. Trace, thank you. So, here more on this and whether Mike Tyson and that issue will come up in the campaign, Trace just mentioned our next guest who is a radio host in Indiana, talk radio host and the prosecutor back in the early '90s that has successfully convicted Mike Tyson of rape. Greg Garrison joins us this evening. And also Charlie Hurt, political columnist at The Washington Times. Welcome, gentlemen.
CHARLIE HURT, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, THE WASHINGTON TIMES: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Good to have you both here tonight.
Greg, let me start with you.
You know, just sticking with the politics of this, do you think that this issue given the polls and what you're seeing out there in Indiana, is it going to have any impact on this race tomorrow night?
GREG GARRISON, HOST, GARRISON 93.1 WIBC: Well, one thing you have to remember is that was 24 years ago.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
GARRISON: So, yes, it's been a long time. There's been a lot of people going to vote in this election don't know who Tyson is and don't even know that this stuff happened. So, let's not, you know, let's not make it something it's not. It was a little bit of a ready, fire, aim moment for Mr. Trump who I just don't think was well advised. I suspect he'd like to have that one back. There's nothing about Mike Tyson that makes anybody want to celebrate his endorsement. That was a great kid. She was 17 years old. She was 5'6" and 106 pounds. He tore her clothes off her and raped her and ruined her life.
That's not the kind of thing -- I have no ax to grind with Mr. Trump. I think he's done some things for the Republican Party and for the politics that's important, but in this particular case to use a worn out old rapist like that and claim him to be a tough guy, that's silly. He went after woman, you know, and girls for that matter.
MACCALLUM: I understand what you're saying and we know that Mike Tyson did three years for that conviction. When you look at the politics of this Charlie, and you know, Greg may be right that the Trump campaign should have been more aware of the revelations of this issue in Indiana, what does it reveal perhaps about the campaign?
HURT: Well, Mr. Gary says exactly right about Mike Tyson and hats off to any prosecutor that puts a guy like that behind bars, but honestly, you know, to hear Ted Cruz try to gin this up into a big issue now, at this point in the campaign when polls show that he appears to be losing Indiana, when this endorsement came out, you know, six months ago back in October, where was the outrage then? You know, where was the outrage from Ted Cruz back when he was nuzzling up with Donald Trump and all of the early debates. The answer is, this is a political stunt. The Cruz campaign is using it as a political thing and this is exactly the kind of thing that voters are sick and tired of hearing from professional politicians, tactics like this as despicable as Mike Tyson is, as despicable as what he did is, it has nothing to do with what is wrong with this country and moreover, you know, those actions don't happen to be Donald Trump's fault.
MACCALLUM: Closing though. Mr. Garrison?
GARRISON: Well, yes and no, it's an unforced error. Trump didn't need this and I suspected nobody -- knew that Tyson said anything six months or a year ago. I don't see it as being something huge. Whether or not it's being ginned up, you have to remember who brought it up. I mean, I'm not taking a side here, but Ted Cruz didn't talk about Mike Tyson. Donald Trump he brought it up --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Yes. Well, you know what, at this stage of the game, you know, as irrelevant as it is as you point out Charlie in terms of what Indiana needs in the future from a president, we see this kind of stuff all the time in these final hours when, you know, one candidate is behind and they start to open themselves up to it, which I'm sure they probably have some second thoughts about now.
Gentlemen, thank you. Good to see you both tonight.
HURT: Thanks, Martha.
GARRISON: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, as Indiana being called the state that could decide the future for the GOP race, Donald Trump's son Eric joins us next.
Plus, the White House defends the host of their annual Correspondents' Dinner after his racially charged joke touched off a pretty big debate today, when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILMORE: Ben Carson was also against Harriet Tubman replace an Andrew Jackson in the $20 bill. He praised Jackson saying he was a tremendous president. From the grave Andrew Jackson replied what did (bleep) they're saying.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, the final countdown is now on in the Hoosier State. And by this time tomorrow, we could know the big winner in Indiana, in all 57 delegates are up for grabs tomorrow night and right now it is Donald Trump leading with a nine point edge in a real clear politics average of polls. But parts of the state have been described as Cruz country. He's been working hard over the past few days.
Our chief political correspondent campaign Carl Cameron is tracking the candidates and reporting tonight from South Bend, Indiana this evening.
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Martha. Donald Trump is wrapping up an event here in South Bend, Indiana. Indiana a state where Ted Cruz had said he must win. The Texas senator more than a month ago began pointing to this very red state as a place where he could halt Donald Trump's momentum. And today, as he has for about a week and a half campaigning in the Hoosier state, Cruz went after Trump with a whole series of characterizations saying that he is a bully, that he insults people, that he puts down people, that he belittles the disabled, that he's racist and a sexist, all of these things Cruz says are why Indiana should not vote for the front-runner. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: I trust the good people of Indiana to differentiate, we are not a country built on hatred. We are not a country built on anger, pettiness. We are not a bitter, angry, petty, bigoted people, that is not American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON: Trump today had a pretty big crowd here in South Bend, but he ran about 15 minutes late and during an earlier show tonight. I sort of downplayed the size of the crowd. And when he got here, he pointed out that there are overflow rooms that we don't see here and in fact that there are several more thousand than a particular reporter noted inaccurately a little bit ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Carl Cameron who is a nice guy, he said, no, they only have 1,500 people here.
(CROWD BOOING)
Let me tell you, let me tell you, start counting them up Carl because you have a lot of people here Carl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON: Well, there you have it there, Martha. Fair and balance. Trump was right. There are probably about 8,000 people here spilled into two overflow rooms that frankly we didn't see because he was so late and didn't get a chance to see those people going in there. But we report, you decide and when the candidates are right, we give them their fair and balance -- Martha.
MACCALLUM: I'm glad you got that straightened out. Carl, thank you very much. So, the fight between Trump and Cruz was captured in an unscripted moment when Senator Cruz confronted a Trump supporter on the street today and there was an interesting exchange that ensued. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: I want to thank you just for being here and exercising your First Amendment right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vote Trump.
CRUZ: You are entitled to have that view and I'm going to treat you with respect even if not everyone in this process does. I'll tell you this election matters. It matters a lot...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, it does matter. It matters a lot.
(Crosstalk)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then you asked Kasich to drop out and it's your turn. Take your own word. Time to drop out.
CRUZ: Well, I'm sure sir, when Donald doesn't get to 1,237 are you going to call on him to drop out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he's definitely going to get to 1,237.
CRUZ: No, no, Donald told the New York Times editorial board he's not going to build a wall and he's not going to deport anyone. He's lying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lying Ted.
CRUZ: Well, sir, if I were Donald Trump, I wouldn't have come over and talked to you. I wouldn't have shown you that respect. In fact, you know what I would have done? I would have told the folks over there to go over and punch those guys in the face. That's what Donald Trump does to protester. I think a candidate is campaigning to work for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're lying.
CRUZ: Okay sir, I respect your right to speak, but I'm also going to say in America, we are a nation that is better than anger and insults and cursing and rage and I believe the people of Indiana have a common sense, good judgment that they want real solutions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody vote Trump. Vote Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That was today on the campaign trail. Joining us now by David McIntosh, president of the Club for Growth. Its pack has endorsed Ted Cruz for president. Mr. McIntosh previously served as a congressman for the state of Indiana. Good evening, sir. Welcome to the program tonight.
DAVID MCINTOSH, CLUB FOR GROWTH PRESIDENT: Great to be with you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, what do you make of that back and forth there from your candidate.
MCINTOSH: you know, I think Senator Cruz did a great job of holding his own being respecting the people that were clearly sent there to harass him, but he's right. Everybody has a right to raise their own opinion and what we don't need is a leader like Donald Trump who would send folks over or say, hey -- used to be that they would just get punched and maybe that's what we need. We don't need that kind of leadership in the White House right now.
MACCALLUM: you know, just going back in a little bit in the history between, you know, how you chose your candidate Ted Cruz. You know, you guys have had a lot of back and forth and now that the focus is on your state in Indiana, some from the Trump camp might say you guys were never on the Trump side and in fact they go back to the time when you actually went to Trump's office and asked for $1 million for Club for Growth and were denied and after that started the Super PAC against him. So, that's sort of back in focus now that this is all turned to Indiana. You want to comment on that.
MCINTOSH: Sure. One, let me say, I think Indiana will be a do or die state and very important probably decide who the nominee is.
MACCALLUM: Right.
MCINTOSH: Club has a long history way before that meeting of telling Donald we don't like your program of raising taxes. We're for free trade and you're not. And in fact, he asked me to send him a letter and say, well, we'll give you some money to help your other candidates and we said, well, if you're going to do it, we'll take that. But I now realize that was an effort to maybe buy our silence and we're not silent about his terrible record.
He is opposing as a conservative. He has a long history of really supporting liberal democratic efforts and actually supporting Hillary and liberal Democrats. Hoosiers will be smart. They'll figure that out that Ted Cruz is the authentic conservative and we'll see that at the polls tomorrow.
MACCALLUM: And if it doesn't go Ted Cruz's way tomorrow night, what would be your advice to him.
MCINTOSH: My advice would be stay in there, anything could happen with Donald Trump and he'll have the second largest number of delegates. Keep fighting the fight and see what happens. But I think it would be a lot easier for him to be able to win the convention if we can have a victory tomorrow night in Indiana.
MACCALLUM: All right, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you very much.
MCINTOSH: My pleasure. Thank you.
MACCALLUM: David McIntosh. So, joining us now as promised, Donald Trump's son, Eric Trump who is the executive vice president of development and acquisitions for the Trump Organization. Eric, welcome. Good to be here. You know, it goes back to this whole issue whether or not your dad is a true conservative and the Club for Growth has been, you know, sort of a nemesis back and forth in terms of that charge leveled against your dad. You remember that time.
ERIC TRUMP, TRUMP ORGANIZATION VICE PRESIDENT: Very well, very well.
MACCALLUM: So, talk to me about your recollection of that.
E. TRUMP: Well, it's actually the obvious part. I listened to David speak, right. He came into my father's office. He asked for $1 million. My father goes, you know, I'm going to politely decline for now, and about a month later there's a Super PAC run by David spending all his time raising millions and millions of dollars to use on negative ads against my father and I think, you know, it really surprises me, right.
A non-politician, as a family who's never been in politics, how ugly the business is. I mean, there's really extorsion. What they did is nothing short of extortion and it's sad and I think people are fed up with it.
MACCALLUM: In terms of the accusations that have been, you know, leveled and you heard it from David and we talked about it earlier in the show -- when you look at the anger in some of these protests -- what your dad's opposition says is he started this basically, that he allowed things to happen or he encouraged people.
He said, you know, I'll cover your expenses if anybody gets hurt or you know, back in the days somebody would have been carried out in a stretcher and they say that that's what started all this. What do you think?
E. TRUMP: I'd like to say exactly the opposite. I think it is beautiful passion, right. You look at these rallies, you have 20,000 people show up, and they even calls you just said that, that they had 8,000 people at the rally that they're speaking at right now. I mean, it's love. It's passion. I mean you have a bunch of Bernie supporters who would come in and riot and you see that all the time and it's very sad.
None of our protesters going over to Sanders or Clinton events. It's always their protesters coming over and disrupting our event. You know, it speaks for a lack of manners honestly in this country, and if I ever went to a, you know, a rally -- you know, somebody else's really and acted like that, I mean, my father would have killed me as a child. I mean, he just would have killed me. It really speaks to a lack of manners in the country.
MACCALLUM: Talk to me about tomorrow night, about Indiana, about your perspective on how things are going to go there and if your father wins tomorrow night, if Donald Trump takes Indiana, what does he think should happen next and what would he do to try to bring people together.
E. TRUMP: Well, we're going to win tomorrow night, there's no question about it. I mean, Ted Cruz has had an awful, awful, awful two weeks. He lost New York. We beat him by almost 50 percent. He got zero delegates in the state. We won Pennsylvania and Connecticut and Maryland and everywhere else and Delaware and Rhode Island. I mean, we won every congressional district of those five states and he just had a bad week.
He did this little thing with Carly which backfired with them. He did this thing with Kasich which also backfired. I mean, both moves were very silly. It made him look very desperate and foolish. We're going to win tomorrow, there's no question about it. Even if we didn't win, quite frankly, we'd get well past the 1,237. We're going to win tomorrow and I think we're actually going to win every state between now and California.
MACCALLUM: So then, if that's true, the big issue becomes a couple of groups, women primarily, where your father's unfavorable numbers are very high. He has said when asked about this question, he thinks Hillary's going to play the woman card and basically, you know, we're going to fix it. We're going to fix that problem. So how are you going to fix that problem when Hillary Clinton will clearly go after him on this?
E. TRUMP: Listen, over the last couple of days, there have been polls that have been coming out where we're actually beating Hillary in the general election. You know, in a head to head matchup, we're beating Hillary. There was a poll that came out today -- there's a poll that came out two days ago where we're beating here.
There's a poll that came out a couple of days before that where we're dead even. We're going to blow past her. But if you look at every state, in New York State alone, we got 59 percent of the women vote. Of the people who voted for us, 59 percent of them were women.
MACCALLUM: And the legit (ph) people.
E. TRUMP: If you look at Nevada and some other states, they would say you have the same problem with, you know, Latinos. Well, you know, in Nevada we blew out the Latino vote. We got that so, it always makes for an easy sound bite to say, hey, Trump's not going to get the Latinos.
Trump's not going to get the African-American votes, Trump's not going to get the women votes, but we have time and time again, race after race and (inaudible) million votes ahead of Ted Cruz. We're 450 delegates ahead of Ted Cruz. We're doing amazing because people -- I think we're going to do great in the general.
MACCALLUM: There's no doubt that you're doing very well in terms of the GOP nomination, but I think that the point is that when you get to the general election, the dynamic changes so dramatically. So what -- I'm just asking what the strategy is, you know. How do you -- what's the approach? How do you start to expand the pool? Do you go to Ted Cruz? I mean, is there patching up with Ted Cruz, somebody that you're dad has calling "Lying Ted" all along. I mean, we've seen him make some overtures towards Marco Rubio in some way. How do you patch those things up and is that what you're going to try to do.
E.TRUMP: Well, the thing about Cruz is he's no longer concerned about the party. He's concerned about himself. He was telling John Kasich to pop out of the race, right, because he had no path to 1,237. Now, Ted Cruz has no path to 1,237, he doesn't want to go anywhere, right. And it sounds like he wants to be a little bit stubborn going, you know, going forward.
If he loses tomorrow and he will lose tomorrow, he still wants to stay in the race. I mean, he's just effectively at this point, just being a spoiler. That's not good for the Republican Party. We should be out there. We should be going after Hillary and we should be doing everything we can to build the teams, build the GOP.
MACCALLUM: I'm hearing no bridge coming any time soon with Ted Cruz.
E. TRUMP: Listen, it's just sad. I mean, again, it's a politician putting himself before his party, his movement, and the people. You know, we should be behind one person and we should unify the party and we should get a jump on the democrats because that ultimately how we're going to win them come November.
MACCALLUM: We'll talk more. Eric, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight.
MACCALLUM: So, on the democratic side Hillary Clinton continuing to defend her handling of the e-mail scandal, but now for the first time, her husband has publicly spoken out about this issue. So, let's take a look at what he said and why Bill Clinton would be saying these words at this moment. Judge Napolitano here on that.
Plus the White House now says that the president was cool with the racially charged remarks that came from comedian Larry Wilmore on Saturday night. Kevin Jackson and Mark Hannah, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Developing tonight, the White House doing a bit of defense after the host of this weekend's correspondent's dinner went to calm the ugly place to get a laugh. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well Barry, you did a (bleep). You did it. Thank you very much. Good night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Well, that was a big finish. Joining me now Kevin Jackson, conservative talk show host and Fox News contributor and Mark Hanna, a veteran of the Obama and Kerry presidential campaigns and author of the upcoming book, "The Best Worst President". Good to see both of you tonight.
MARK HANNAH, WORKED ON OBAMA AND KERRY CAMPAIGNS: Hey Martha.
MACCALLUM: So Mark, let me start with you. What was your reaction?
HANNAH: Sure, I mean, it's tough for me to come out as kind of a guy who personifies whiteness and has like white privilege oozing out of my pores here. The debate with Kevin on whether this people should be taking offense at Larry Wilmore, but look, I've been to these White House correspondents's dinner. I went to one with George Bush as president, you got to have pretty thick skin to get there and this is late at night. There's some off color comments.
Even Bill O'Reilly has come out and said tonight even that Larry Wilmore was coming from an affectionate place. That if you read this remarks in context, it's not that. What really ticks me off frankly is when people like black conservatives come on TV and say the black lives matter protestors are being too sensitive when they protest somebody who basically has been shot, an unarmed black kid has been shot but yet when a comedian uses a bad word, all of a sudden they're protesting. They think that they don't protest too much.
MACCALLUM: I need to point out that the word that we used was the "N" word because we agreed (ph) to that.
HANNAH: Yeah, that's right.
MACCALLUM: And I just want to make it, you know, clear to everybody else that I know what we're talking about. But Kevin, you know, weigh in on this because, you know, I tell my kids never to use that word, right. So, then they see on the (inaudible) and they say, well, how come some people can use it and other people can't use it. It's funny when some people use it. It sends a very -- it's kind of a divisive message actually because it makes you feel like, you know, that there are different rules for different people and if you can get away with it, it's okay.
KEVIN JACKSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it is divisive and to Mark's point about black lives matter, it's a fake movement that never should existed -- that never should exist because it's not based on any factual information. In fact it's the opposite but that's just to cover that little bit of a comment. But as far as this goes, it's very simple. Ask Mark two questions. One, what if a white comedian had done it and said exactly the same thing and the same thing and the same jokes, could he have gotten away with it? Absolutely not.
HANNAH: Absolutely not.
MACCALLUM: Right, absolutely not.
JACKSON: Secondarily, not to be interrupted Mark, but secondarily, if a white comedian had said, hey, you're my cracker to George Bush as he was walking off as if to say, hey, we're the same people or something like that, he would have been excoriated for that as well.
The fact of the matter is Larry Wilmore essentially knew that at all those correspondents, all these great supposed journalists could not say what he just said to the president and get away with it. This is essentially the wussification (ph) of America where if you say something that's politically incorrect, people will get fired over this. Paula Dean lost her career at one point.
(Crosstalk)
MACCALLUM: Just a second. Besides the fact that, you know, I think it's divisive in many ways. I agree in some ways he was trying to give the president a big compliment and then he finished it off with that sort of tasteless comment which was very unnecessary, but I think he was kind of -- he's having a tough time up there.
People weren't really laughing that much and I think the president was sort of just trying to be gracious at the end and kind of make him feel better and not sort of wince when he used that phrase. That was my take on it, Mark.
HANNAH: Well, it's possible. Look, Larry Wilmore is a skilled comedian but he had something going against him, which is he was following the president...
MACCALLUM: Who was very funny...
HANNAH: ...who was actually very funny. Even if you think that this is, you know, the horrible (ph) no-good, very worthy (ph), the blurriest (ph) president we've ever had, go Google after the show is over, the White House correspondent then watch the president's performance, it was pretty good.
MACCALLUM: We have to leave it there guys.
HANNAH: Thanks Martha.
MACCALLUM: I like the host. I like, you know, like Don Rickles, Dean Martin, those guys are funny and they could do it without being rude and mean.
(Crosstalk)
HANNAH: I hope your kids were in bed by then. It was 11:00.
MACCALLUM: Thanks you guys. Good to see you both. So, over the weekend Bill Clinton offered his first public defense of his wife's e-mail issues. Judge Napolitano, up next on that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Developing tonight, new reaction after former president Bill Clinton offered what appeared to be his first public defense of Hillary's e-mail scandal. The FBI investigation into the former Secretary of State's use of a private e-mail server at her home is still under way, yet this is how the president addressed it, former president, this weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: If you're driving in a 50 mile an hour zone and a police officer pulls you over when you're driving 40, says I'm sorry I got to give you a ticket because you know the speed limit here should be 35 and you should have known it. So everybody's all restless about this. Look, this is a game.
MACCALLUM: The game, joining me now, Judge Andrew Napolitano, the Fox News senior judicial analyst and author of "The Radical Expansion of Presidential Powers and the Lethal Threat to American Liberty." I got it out. Hi, judge, how are you?
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: Okay, Martha, how are you?
MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight. I'm good, thanks. I'm doing well. So, why now? Why is Bill Clinton speaking out about this now and why is he calling it a game?
NAPOLITANO: You know, I'm shaking my head because he was the president. He was the chief law enforcement officer of the land and he knows how seriously these things can be. Here's why he said that on Saturday, because on Friday evening, the justice department filed a brief not in the case involving its investigation of Mrs. Clinton, but in a Freedom of Information of Act case, where a reporter asked for copies of correspondence between Mrs. Clinton and the State Department and Mrs. Clinton and the FBI, and the Justice Department said we can't give you these documents because they pertain to our investigation which is an active one involving law enforcement.
This is the first time that the justice department has referred to the investigation of Mrs. Clinton as one that involves the enforcement and investigation of the enforcement of Federal law. It's important because Mrs. Clinton herself has said countless times, this doesn't involve me and it doesn't involve law enforcement, it involves classifying documents of whether they should be classified or not.
MACCALLUM: She has repeatedly called it a...
NAPOLITANOL: This directly challenges her view on this.
MACCALLUM: She's repeatedly called this a security review that is not an investigation into her saying that there is no law enforcement investigation. So, it's clear that, you know, President Clinton -- these things just don't happen. He decided it was time for him to speak out about this. He wants to minimize it.
He wants to make it appear to be no big deal. In terms of where this is going, is there any indication that it's going to wrap up any time soon because there was some suggestion it could go even beyond November, judge.
NAPOLITANO: I think -- remember, there's two investigations.
MACCALLUM: Right.
NAPOLITANO: The investigation alleging public corruption. The allegation is that Mrs. Clinton made decisions as Secretary of State with foreign persons and foreign governments so they would contribute to the Clinton Foundation. That one may go beyond November. But I suggest to you that Bill Clinton knows from talking to his wife that the investigation of espionage, whether she removed state secrets from a secure location and put them into a nonsecure location is coming to an end.
And they know it's coming to an end because the FBI has called in her closest circle of aides and they've already been interrogated by the FBI. There's one person left to be interrogated and that's Mrs. Clinton herself. And when she does go in to see the FBI or if she doesn't, all of this will become public and Bill Clinton is not only responding to what the justice department said on Friday, a law enforcement investigation, but he's trying to prepare the public for the end game here since we don't know how it's going to end.
MACCALLUM: All right. Judge, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight. Judge Andrew Napolitano. Quick break here and we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So it is May and it is primary season and tomorrow night it is Indiana folks -- 57 delegates up for grabs tomorrow evening. Our special coverage with Megyn Kelly and Bret Baier and Bill Hemmer and myself and a cast of others. Thanks for being here. We'll see you tomorrow night everybody. Have a good one.
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