New concerns over 'sanctuary cities' in wake of SF slaying

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 9, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Bill O'Reilly says throw them into prison for five years if they come back. Donald Trump says build a wall and make Mexico pay for it to keep them out. Senator Tom Cotton says if you choose to be a sanctuary city and hide illegals from the feds, you should be stripped of your federal law enforcement grants. All interesting ideas, I'd say all of the above, but if you disagree with me, maybe too insensitive to illegals. Let's see if you still think so after listening to these families who lost children to illegals committing crimes.


DAN GOLVACH, SON KILLED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: It's the strange thing is, Spencer's mother and I, we don't think about the killer that much. We feel like he was more or less a foot soldier and it's our government that did this. It's you know, cherry picking laws.

MARY ANN MENDOZA, SON KILLED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: I'm looking at this thinking and listening to all these other stories thinking, the leniency that our government is showing these illegals is costing innocent American lives. If people don't start speaking the truth and acknowledging that we have a problem at the border, for the sake of getting votes, I am getting more and more disgusted with politicians in this country.

SABINE DURDEN, SON KILLED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: People's feelings are hurt well. My heart is ripped apart and these other families here. Our lives will never be the same. He was my only child.


BOLLING: Now Greg, it really hits home when you hear those families.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, the point that -- the important point here is what if a government refuses to enforce laws that conflict with their own political ideology? What if -- the left should consider, what would happen if conservative lawmakers did the same thing? What if -- could there be a sanctuary city for the Confederate flag? Where you're allowed to put it wherever you want? Should you have sanctuary cities that protect you from sanctuary proponents? That would be nice that. That would be refreshing. This is a consequence of a leftist ideology that puts tolerance before security. It's not just here with immigration. You see it with the war on terror. You see it with law enforcement. These areas, these three areas are being sacrificed at the altar of tolerance. But it's hard to be nice to other people when you're dead. It's more important to be secure. And then you can be nice.

BOLLING: Dana, are you -- where are you on sanctuary cities? Should we have them?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: No. I don't think so. And I think that the permissiveness of allowing them over the last 6 1/2 years to grow into this monster, that it is now is actually -- it's catching up with the democrats in a way that it's catching them a little bit too late, too little too late because now, as you see a little bit later and they got the package from Jesse Watters in here. There is case law about, like the Lopez case, I'm sure Kimberly is familiar with this, about background checks and guns and it has to do with what law -- local law enforcement has to do with regards to what the federal law says. Actually, case law and which is why I think that Tom Cotton's proposal is probably the most feasible because the one thing that the federal government can do is withdraw the money and the federal grants. That actually seems like the most plausible thing to be able to do immediately that would at least send a signal to sanctuary cities.

BOLLING: Yeah. Juan, what about that? So the feds send sanctuary cities money for law enforcement, but they're.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Unenforcing (ph) the law, law unenforcement (ph).

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You know this, the reason of breaking the law, the reason that the Obama administration and others have not gone after local governments is, they think its good policy, Eric. They think it helps in terms of law enforcement, protecting communities, making people safer. When you have people in the immigrant community, legals (ph) and illegals, willing to cooperate with the local police, willing to testify and tell stories. I think what we're seeing here is, oh, illegal immigration is to blame for everything now including the death of the tragic death of this woman in San Francisco. But to me, I got to tell you in all honesty, looks like escapegoating (ph) vulnerable people. Are all black people to blame for all shootings in Chicago?

BOLLING: No, no, but.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Nobody is saying that. Wait, wait, Juan.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: No one is saying that.

GUTFELD: Nobody is blaming an entire group of people. We're talking about a policy. What caused this? In your mind, if you're saying that it wasn't a policy, if it wasn't sanctuary cities, then what caused this?

WILLIAMS: It was a derelict to pick up a gun -- apparently he said he was on sleeping pills, but he who has a history being arrested of heroine.

GUILFOYLE: But he is not a derelict. The derelict is somebody who hangs out on park benches and drinks beer.

WILLIAMS: He wasn't hanging on a park bench.


GUILFOYLE: That is not who he is.

WILLIAMS: Oh, what was he?

GUILFOYLE: He had a significant criminal record. He is a murder.

WILLIAMS: OK. But he was.

GUILFOYLE: He is somebody who repeatedly broke the law and he's a recidivist and he shouldn't have been allowed back in. And this isn't about race. This is about obeying the laws of the United States of America. And it has nothing to do if you're black, white, Mexican.

WILLIAMS: That's my point.


WILLIAMS: Or an illegal.

GUILFOYLE: No one cares.

WILLIAMS: And nothing to do with legal or illegal or.

BOLLING: But it does, Juan.

WILLIAMS: American born.

BOLLING: But it does, but it has to make something.

WILLIAMS: Because the point is, if somebody kills me or shot my child, I wouldn't care who they were.

BOLLING: Like here's why it matters. Because we are allowing sanctuary cities to let people go who would normally be incarcerated or deported. The whole point of this is that this gentleman -- this gentleman, forget it. This murderer decided to go to San Francisco because he knew he wasn't going to get deported.


BOLLING: He's got seven felony convictions, five deportations. Yesterday, we talked about it, Juan. I'm going to do it for you. Here are the numbers. I promised you these numbers. Illegals represent 3 percent of the population. Do we agree on that?


BOLLING: 11 million -- 319 million in the population, right? 38 percent of all federal convictions are by illegal immigrants. Not immigrants, illegal immigrants. They're convicted at 38 percent of all federal convictions, 3 percent of the population, 18 percent of drug trafficking convictions in America -- illegals, 3 percent of the population. 25 percent of all kidnappings in America are done by illegal immigrants. I have more. You want murders? 7 percent, you want drug possession? 56 percent of all drug possessions convictions are illegal immigrants.

WILLIAMS: This is just not right. I don't know where you're getting these numbers.

BOLLING: From the.

WILLIAMS: But let me just say.

BOLLING: From the United States Sentencing Bureau.

WILLIAMS: No, let me just say.


WILLIAMS: The GAAO -- the GAO has said that clearly, most of the illegal immigrants who are arrested in this country are arrested for what, Eric? Crossing the border, illegally.

BOLLING: But that doesn't include this.

WILLIAMS: 70 percent.

BOLLING: These are drug trafficking, kidnapping, drug possession. You know, Juan, I'll give you those numbers, too.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm just saying.

BOLLING: 50 percent of the population.

GUILFOYLE: But why are you allowed to break the law?

BOLLING: They're arrested four times.

WILLIAMS: You shouldn't enter illegally.

GUILFOYLE: You get my point?

WILLIAMS: Your point is.

GUILFOYLE: Maybe I wanna go park in all the handicap spots.

WILLIAMS: Well, you can't do that, but let me just say.

GUILFOYLE: Why are they allowed to break the law?

WILLIAMS: Look, nobody says you're allowed to break the law.

GUILFOYLE: Why are we playing favorites?

WILLIAMS: We're not playing favorites. In fact, we're trying to protect ourselves so that when a crime is committed by an illegal immigrant, other people in that community will testify, will give evidence, and we can stop and find the bad guys. That's what this is about.

GUILFOYLE: That is one of the arguments that are conveniently and frequently used to justify a complete disregard for the laws that are on the books.

WILLIAMS: You mean the illegal -- you may cross the border illegally.

GUILFOYLE: I'm saying about oh, we just want people to testify and come forward. I mean, I was there. I wasn't having a situation where people like I'm worried about being deported, et cetera. People come forward to do the right thing. And they don't get deported when they testify in cases, sorry to tell you.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I'm going to tell you, people are afraid of it, Kimberly. People are afraid of being deported. And the reason we're having this discussion? Donald Trump. And you know what Donald Trump said? He didn't talk about people crossing the border illegally.

BOLLING: No, no. You know, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Or park illegally.

BOLLING: We're having this discussion.

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait. Let me finish -- what?

BOLLING: Because Kate Steinle is dead.

WILLIAMS: No. No, we're having.

BOLLING: That's why.

WILLIAMS: We're having this discussion because people are trying to demonize every illegal immigrant, into a rapist, a murder.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody is accusing (ph) that.

WILLIAMS: A criminal and drug dealer.

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: I quote my friend, Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: Nobody had to demonize this guy.

WILLIAMS: No. He's a bad guy.


WILLIAMS: He's a bad guy.

GUTFELD: So that's what we're talking about.


GUTFELD: We're not talking about what happened before. We're talking about the fact that this man, this fiend, murdered a young woman. That has nothing to do with Trump.

WILLIAMS: I would agree. This is a bad guy and we need to fix it. And so as Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Senator Klein --

GUTFELD: We're all.

WILLIAMS: All of them.

GUTFELD: We're all through -- I think -- Isn't Hillary for sanctuary cities?


WILLIAMS: She was. Now she's having second thoughts.

GUTFELD: Well, how political of her.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. PERINO: Because my point about the politics, catching up to the democrats. If I could make one point about this issue on bringing this, I know you got to go the next thing. It -- I actually think that it is more compassionate, and the argument could be made that if you are now changing your opinion about sanctuary cities, it is more compassionate to immigrant communities, legal immigrants, to deport and get the criminals out of their communities. That would be actually the more compassionate thing to do, in addition to the lawful thing to do.

BOLLING: And the safe -- safer thing to do.

PERINO: That's what I mean.


PERINO: That if you want those communities to thrive, if you want them to be able to go to good -- better schools and to have better jobs and better have like, safer streets, deporting the criminals is actually better. And that's the argument I'd use if you're changing your position.

BOLLING: All right, hang in there one second. Kate Steinle will be laid to rest in the next hour. In the aftermath of her senseless murder, lots of finger pointing going on between the city of San Francisco, the county sheriff's office and ICE. Here's Mayor Ed Lee slamming the county sheriff.


ED LEE, MAYOR OF SAN FRANCISCO: Nothing in that law prevents or prohibits communication, notification, with our federal and state law enforcement officials. Do I need to educate somebody about how to pick up a phone?


BOLLING: Well, Bill O'Reilly sent Jesse Watters to confront the San Francisco board of supervisors on their sanctuary city status. Jesse was armed with a picture of Kate Steinle.


JESSIE WATTERS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: I'd like to show you a picture here. It's Kate Steinle. She was murdered by an illegal alien who had been deported five times and over six felony convictions. But for some reason, the city of San Francisco let this guy out. You guys aren't even looking. Look at the picture. Are you afraid? You guys don't have anything to say?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much. Next speaker, please.


BOLLING: So K.G., I'm not sure that they could have done anything about it at that moment. But I -- it certainly is opening the debate, city councils of our country.

GUILFOYLE: Well, absolutely they could have answered.


GUILFOYLE: I mean, I know.


GUILFOYLE: Well, by opening their mouths and answering the question.

BOLLING: Well. Yeah, I understood that opening their mouths.

GUILFOYLE: But you know my point, they didn't want to say anything because they don't want to be on the record, because they don't want to be played on Fox News tonight. Simple as that. So this crazy glued their lips and somebody said next speaker. I know. I have spent hundreds of hours in that board of supervisor's room. They sit there. They are supposed to take questions from the people to answer them about what is going on in the city. That is the whole purpose of an open forum and an open democracy, to have the discussion. But they chose not to. I mean, yeah, they don't have any good answers, do they?

BOLLING: Will there -- I don't know how you could possibly come up with -- what is the answer, Juan? Be the city council for San Francisco right now. Why are you a sanctuary city, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's very interesting.

BOLLING: What is that point of the city?

WILLIAMS: A large population of immigrants and illegal immigrants, it's -- I saw an amazing, it's like a quarter of all the illegal immigrants in the country are in California. I didn't realize that, but anyway.

BOLLING: So what do you? --

WILLIAMS: But the answer is.

BOLLING: What does that illegal population bring to San Francisco?

WILLIAMS: What is the illegal population?


WILLIAMS: I think the -- well, you know what you and I think Donald Trump want to somehow imagine there are all these Mexicans who are running around and committing crimes. Let me tell you.

BOLLING: Just answer my question.

WILLIAMS: There are a lot of people who are Asians.

BOLLING: Your city councilors.

WILLIAMS: There a lot of people who are Irish.

BOLLING: They're not the illegal ones. I'm talking about the illegal.

WILLIAMS: Oh, they're not illegal.

BOLLING: 80 percent of them are coming.

WILLIAMS: You know what this is?

BOLLING: From South America and Mexico.

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you something.

BOLLING: 80 percent.

WILLIAMS: That is so knee jerk. I can't even -- don't know where to start.

GUILFOYLE: But you know what, Juan. You like -- you break out in hives.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know when people start.

GUILFOYLE: When confronted with the facts.

WILLIAMS: When people start maligning all Mexicans.

GUILFOYLE: No one is making you (inaudible).

WILLIAMS: Do you think its Mexicans that are the only illegal immigrants in the country?

BOLLING: I was asking, as a city council member of San Francisco.

GUILFOYLE: I love Mexican-Americans.

WILLIAMS: Well, what is (inaudible)?

GUILFOYLE: Amazing people. Great culture, great families. I don't like criminals. I like people who follow the law.

WILLIAMS: No, so -- that's all I'm saying. And they come in all colors from all places around the world. It's not one group of people. That's not fair.

BOLLING: Can we play that.

GUTFELD: But I know -- I think -- he wasn't asking you that, Juan.


GUTFELD: He was asking you how you would respond.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I will respond if you want to.

GUTFELD: I mean, but you didn't.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I'm glad.

GUTFELD: So I'm gonna say something. I'm thinking.

WILLIAMS: No, he's talking about Mexicans. I don't care.

GUTFELD: This is an interesting thing. Would you -- let's look at -- compare this.

BOLLING: Greg, I'm -- can I do this once. I was talking about illegals, Juan. I wasn't.

WILLIAMS: They're not.

BOLLING: I wasn't talking about Mexicans, Canadians, Irish.

WILLIAMS: Mexicans are not the only illegals.

BOLLING: I was talking about the illegals. What does the city want with illegals? I can't figure it out. I'm sorry, Greg.

GUTFELD: What's interesting is when there's a hot topic like this that affects republicans. Every single candidate is asked about it. Let say, gay marriage. The media will ask every single candidate anytime they get a republican alone. They're going to ask you about gay marriage or they will ask you about the Confederate flag. Will they do this about -- will they do this with sanctuaries and this horrible crime with the four candidates or any democrat in general? Will the media go there? Because they know they don't have an answer. Juan, it's proven that they don't have an answer.

WILLIAMS: They don't have answer, yeah.

GUTFELD: The way furloughs put Dukakis on the back foot and allowed George Bush to win -- that I am right, right? Little groggy. That's how the sanctuary business is gonna be the same for the current democratic crop.


PERINO: I would say that on the legislative side of things because the last two presidents have failed to get comprehensive immigration reform done, that now that President Obama has taken the amnesty issue off the table because he has said, I'm going to do amnesty for these people by executive order. Hillary Clinton said she would double that. I think that the House republicans in their position now possibly, even working with the Senate they should pass a border security bill that they think they can live with and that would actually make a difference. And I would send that over, or at least pass it in the House, try to get it through the Senate and get it up to the president and let him be to decide if he's going to veto.

BOLLING: Very good.

WILLIAMS: Let me got -- let me just quickly respond to Gregory.

GUTFELD: Please do, my friend.

WILLIAMS: You know what? Republicans are the ones who have the problem here. I think there's lots of hypocrisy on the democrats' side. But remember Reince Priebus, the head of the RNC is calling who Donald Trump to say. You know what, you're hurting this party, now Trump said, oh, no that didn't happen. But believe me, that's a worry among republicans who are trying to reach out the Hispanics and get their votes.

GUTFELD: I don't dispute that.


BOLLING: Well then, let's leave it on that one.


BOLLING: Coming up, things are heating up between 2016 contenders, Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. The presidential hopefuls are duking (ph) it out on Twitter over who better understands the plight of the American worker. Details coming up.


GUILFOYLE: Well, the 2016 race is heating up with the war of words between presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. It all started yesterday with Bush's remarks about the American workforce in New Hampshire.


JEB BUSH, 2016 GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My aspiration for the country and I believe we can achieve it is 4 percent growth as far as I could see, which means we have to be a lot more productive, workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. It means that people need to work longer hours and through their productivity gain more income for their families. That's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in.


GUILFOYLE: In response, Hillary tweeted, "Anyone who believes Americans aren't working hard enough hasn't met enough American workers." Bush later clarified his comments saying, they were taken out of context. Tweeting Clinton back, "Anyone who discounts 6.5 million people stuck in part-time work and seeking full-time jobs hasn't listened to working Americans at Hillary Clinton." I mean, now this is the new like, Ultimate Fighting Championship on Twitter, right? They just like tweet each other to death until one passes out and needs a Gatorade or some replenishment. What do you make of these numbers?

BOLLING: So the 4 percent comment is where I think Jeb was really focusing in on and that's a big one. 4 percent growth going forward, I think he said to the foreseeable future. That's realistic. That's great. That's optimistic. But you know how it, like on TV sometimes, you do write a script, you do three things. You know, this, this and this.

GUILFOYLE: Like in the Fastest 7.

BOLLING: Whatever -- but we have a lot of times we think in threes, so we talk about in threes. So he said, labor participation rate, longer hours, and productivity. The problem is if you just did the first one. Get the labor participation rate that would probably solve his 4 percent problem or already working as harder than we've ever worked with. Putting in more hours and we're more productive than we've ever been in the history of America. So he added two things that Hillary jumped on. She saw -- it was a mistake, it was an error, it's an unforced error and she took it and exploited it. If she just stayed with the first one, he -- you know he had. He had it right there.

GUILFOYLE: All right and what difference does it make to vote Hillary Clinton, Dana?

PERINO: I think the labor participation rate is something that we do talk about a lot. I mean, we've had the slowest recovery from a recession, and the economic growth -- 4 percent is actually, pretty modest, actually. But we would love to have that in America now. The labor participation rate being -- I think what you're talking about, Eric, it's like just at all- time lows and so the country needs more -- people what to be working more. And I think also it's.

BOLLING: More people.

PERINO: More people working.


PERINO: Now, some people, if you are in a -- stuck in a part-time job situation because your employer basically doesn't want to have more full- time workers, because of the consequences of that from additional regulations.

GUILFOYLE: And Obamacare.

PERINO: That's was like a problem. Here's the thing, though. It could be the first election by Twitter. It's going to be.

BOLLING: Twitter (ph).

PERINO: Kind of unsatisfying. I have a feeling, 140 characters. But it shows the importance of social media. So it used to be that television could drive social media, it's now -- it's the other way around. Social media is driving the coverage of the campaigns. So that's where you have to be and you have to be there fast. I think that Jeb Bush's team showed a little bit of agility today, as you see their Instagram piece about this issue. It's clever and it's smart and it's quick. But the anxiety Americans feel about the economy, they've got to be better and be prepared to have to deal with her on a much faster basis.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. There was pretty quick response. So like you said, the agility was there. What do you think about that? It seems like these are the two. You know they are going head-to-head, Clash of the Titans already.

GUTFELD: Well, maybe, but -- to comment on this new politics of Twitter, which I despise.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

GUTFELD: One, you say something that is generally embedded in a larger conversation; two, it's taken out of context; three, clarify, rinse and repeat. The great thing about Hillary is nothing ever gets taken out of context because she never says anything. And if she happens to speak, the press fake partial deafness. But I hate -- you know what's interesting about -- if Twitter didn't exist, this debate would never occur in person because the person would say no, that's not what I meant. I didn't mean that. I was talking about, you know, instead of working part-time, they'd be working full time. She knew what he meant, but you pretend not to know.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: When you're on Twitter. Because on Twitter, there's no such thing as context, you could take anything you want and turn it into whatever.

GUILFOYLE: And pull it.

GUTFELD: It sucks.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. All right, but you're on it. But OK.

GUTFELD: Not for long.


GUILFOYLE: That's what he keeps saying, it's like Groundhog Day. I'm getting off Twitter. I'm going to quit you.


GUILFOYLE: OK. Juan, are you better this flock (ph)?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know.


WILLIAMS: I just got -- I just think, you know, this is politics, Twitter or elsewhere. Where people -- I think intentionally play gotcha games.


WILLIAMS: So I don't think there was really a gotcha here. I thought it was pretty clear to me, he didn't mean anything but labor participation rates. But of course, he did slightly mistake. But the interesting part of the politics to me is, so where did the attacks come from? You guys are talking about Hillary Clinton. Of course, but Ted Cruz? Ted Cruz's guys come out and say, oh, this is just like Mitt Romney. You don't understand what a gaffe you've made. You're out of touch with the working people in America. This is Ted Cruz.


BOLLING: Yeah, but.

WILLIAMS: And then, hold on, hold on. And then here comes, guess who? Bernie Sanders, and Bernie Sanders says, oh, you don't understand what it means to have decent wages and it's the economy that's the problem, not the labor participation. I'm thinking, wow, Cruz and Sanders are teaming up.

GUTFELD: Come on, that's the ticket.

BOLLING: He just wants to be because.

WILLIAMS: That's the ticket?

BOLLING: That his is the leader. He is the frontrunner. And obviously, everyone wants to take the frontrunner down a notch or two. So Cruz points out something that he found wrong in what Jeb said and that's.

WILLIAMS: Well, it just clear.


GUILFOYLE: And how about this, we got a little bit of that gotcha because oh, no she didn't in February of 2014. Listen to what Hillary had to say. Oh, I have to read it? I can't see that far.


GUILFOYLE: This is about -- I don't wear my glasses.

GUTFELD: Do you want me to do it?

GUILFOYLE: Clinton pointed to issues with small business of 50 or more providing coverage to their employees, and businesses moving people from full-time work to part-time work to try to avoid contributing to their health care. Quote, "As issues that should be addressed." That's a little nugget from CNN. So we get to the respond. Bolling, you can't see it, either.

BOLLING: No, no. I see.


BOLLING: Oh, how that it applies?

GUILFOYLE: You are really old.

BOLLING: Why does that apply to this? It didn't --

GUILFOYLE: This is what she.

BOLLING: Just I don't get that.

GUILFOYLE: This is what she said in 2014.

PERINO: Talking about the labor participation right.

GUILFOYLE: Right? Late edition.

PERINO: And what I was saying is.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, part-time.

PERINO: Part-time issue.


BOLLING: No -- yeah. No -- I mean, I understand because -- they're like explaining to me why we read that comment. The bottom line here, he was right with labor participation, right. He was wrong with hours worked and he was wrong with productivity. Those things are very strong. So let's, you know.

WILLIAMS: But I don't think he meant that, though, you know.

GUTFELD: It's the nature, though, of modern politics.

WILLIAMS: That's what I say.

GUTFELD: Each republican has to be on their toes because they have a big fat target on their back that.

BOLLING: Especially if you're leading.

GUTFELD: Yea, that's right.


GUTFELD: And Hillary doesn't need it.

GUTFELD: Yeah, but Jeb is much more willing to engage and to answer questions and to be prepared and well-versed on the issues. This will come to be a very significant advantage on his behalf.

PERINO: And remember, this is.

GUILFOYLE: Hillary is not going to be ready.

PERINO: Remember, she didn't write that tweet.




PERINO: It was like she's got better staffers than she is a candidate.

GUTFELD: Yeah, that's true.

GUILFOYLE: That is it right there. So what is she gonna do? Like I get by with a little help from my friends and like bring them all up on the stage in the debate or put them in the podium?

PERINO: Am I right? You got to have to trust your people that your social media for you.

GUILFOYLE: All right, (inaudible). Next on The Five, brand-new Confederate flags developments in South Carolina where Governor Nikki Haley just made a historic move on the issue. Details, when we return.


WILLIAMS: Big news in South Carolina. Moments ago, Governor Nikki Haley signed a bill, allowing for the removal of the Confederate flag from the state house grounds. The governor explained what will happen next.


NIKKI HALEY, SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: Tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m., we will see the Confederate flag come down. We are a state that believes in tradition. We're a state that believes in history. We're a state that believes in respect. So we will bring it down with dignity, and we will make sure that it is put in its rightful place.


WILLIAMS: The governor's signature comes after both the Republican- controlled House and Senate in South Carolina passed the bill with overwhelming support.

Greg, are you surprised?

GUTFELD: It's got to kill the Democrats to see the Republicans take down their flag. Hat tip John Gabriel.

I hear they're replacing the flag, though, with posters of Donald Trump. So I don't know if it's a win-lose.

But you know what? One point -- I think I'm OK with this. It's not my -- it's not my game. But America is in scary shape, and so is the world. You've got China imploding. Europe's a mess. Is it not a coincidence this is happening, when America tends to its social justice garden, that we've somehow stopped looking outward; and we're too busy looking inward to correct the shame of our past? Is that a good question, Juan? You're pondering.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm pondering because I listen to you.

GUTFELD: I love it when you listen to me.

WILLIAMS: Well, I do. But I must say, to me it's stunning. You know, I saw somebody quoted as saying -- this was a black person -- that they never thought they'd see it in their lifetime. I think that's the way I feel, like I never thought we'd get past the whole argument about heritage and tradition, and people would own up to it.

What do you think?

PERINO: A transformative moment led by a Republican who's an Indian American, whose family came here and worked really hard; and they raised an amazing family, and she was able to lead this effort. And...

GUTFELD: But she's an immigrant.

BOLLING: A legal one. A little one.

WILLIAMS: Hey, Eric...

BOLLING: ... Juan...

WILLIAMS: She's not Mexican. Oh, my God.


PERINO: She was actually born here. She's an American.

BOLLING: So Republican House, Senate and Republican governor signing. Can we -- can we move on?

I did learn something today. I did learn that the flag didn't fly above the state house until the 100th anniversary after the fact. And it stayed as a protest to some anti -- some desegregation efforts. So you know what? OK. So take the flag down.

WILLIAMS: Move on. I'm interested to hear you say that. You mean, just move on because you feel like it's a defeat in the culture wars or something?


BOLLING: No. I think the issue is over. It's been decided at the state level.

WILLIAMS: I just think -- I think it's an amazing moment in American history. You disagree?

GUILFOYLE: I didn't say I disagree. No, I think that she showed tremendous, you know, courage and fortitude and led the way on this. And I think it's an important moment. And I like that, you know, Nikki Haley did it. What are you going to say now? What are you going to say now about the Republicans? Huh?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's a real positive thing about Republicans.

All right. So let me just -- let me tell you something interesting about the Democrats. Bernie Sanders is on the radio, right. And Bernie Sanders says the nation should apologize for slavery.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nobody in this generation is involved in slavery. But as a nation, slavery is one of the abominations that our country has experienced. There's no excuse. What can we say about it? As a nation -- I don't think as a president -- but as a nation we have got to apologize for slavery.


WILLIAMS: Kimberly, do we need to apologize?

GUILFOYLE: No, I don't think we need to apologize. I mean, we've spent every single day apologizing for something, right? I mean, not to say this isn't a significant moment. But this is -- you know, this is his moment. We're talking about Bernie Sanders every day. I want to apologize for that. But other than that, I mean, he's of course, going to say this. This is who he is. So I think it's consistent with his politics, with his ideology and the idea of, like, American shame.


WILLIAMS: I'm sorry.

GUTFELD: I think Bernie should apologize for himself. He's the last remaining American socialist. Talking about clinging to a dangerous, harmful, deadly path.

But I do agree with him on one point. All of humanity should apologize for slavery. Earliest records from 1760 B.C. show that it was an established institution. There were black slaves. There were white slaves. There were Christian slaves. There were Muslim slaves. There were slaves in the British isles. There were slaves in Canada. There were slaves in Europe. In Mauritania right now, there's 600,000 slaves. Right now. Should they be apologizing to Bernie Sanders? It's an ugly scar for the earth.

WILLIAMS: It is. Dana, I just wanted to talk the politics for a second. Why is Bernie Sanders doing this? Is it all about his need for reaching out to the black and minority vote in the Democratic Party?

PERINO: I actually think that Bernie Sanders is just being Bernie Sanders.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Thank you.

PERINO: He just raised, in a reporting requirement for the campaign. He raised $15 million. OK. That's a lot of money! There is actually support for him. He believes in a form -- this is an issue about a formal apology from the United States that would be written and signed off and sworn to. And I would ask you, Juan, do you -- do you agree with that?

GUILFOYLE: Do you want it?

PERINO: Do you think that a formal apology from the United States government would help the issue?

WILLIAMS: No. Not to me. So the question is what is it about? Somebody the other day said Obama should apologize. I thought the first black president?

BOLLING: No, no. The Democrats should apologize.


BOLLING: Because Republicans are the ones who got slavery abolished, and they also got voting rights for African Americans. So Democrats. And they voted against it.

WILLIAMS: I think we didn't even -- we didn't quite have Republicans and Democrats when the Constitution was signed, you know. I mean...

BOLLING: ... amendment.

WILLIAMS: All right. But I'm just saying, this was a Founding Fathers thing. You know, I wasn't even fully human; I was 3/5 human.

BOLLING: Three-fifths.

WILLIAMS: Three-fifths. So it's a problem for us as Americans.

GUILFOYLE: Three-fifths?

WILLIAMS: Three-fifths. I hope I'm 3/5 cute enough for you.


WILLIAMS: Anyway, directly ahead, pop star Ariana Grande is singing a different tune after being caught on tape in a doughnut shop saying she hates America. Wow! But is the singer's apology enough? Now, get ready for this, because Greg's up next.


GUTFELD: There's so much to learn from Ariana Grande, the singer who besmirched a doughnut shop on the Fourth, saying she hates America while licking other people's doughnuts. Roll it, Clem.


ARIANA GRANDE, POP SINGER: What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is that? I hate Americans. I hate America. That's disgusting.


GUTFELD: Oh, man.

The lessons in no real order. One, Grande is only 22, which in pop star years is six. You divide the age by 2 and then subtract five. Six-year- olds lick things, and they hate things because they're dumb. To ruin your life, date a backup singer like the guy who egged her on that day. Called the Federline law. It's foolproof and proof of fools.

If you want to apologize without apologizing, say you're sorry to people close to you. It's like apologizing to your car after running over an old lady. Cite concern for the greater good.

Here Ariana claims she was upset over fat people and lectures us on America's childhood obesity rate, which her assistants likely Googled. She wrote this after buying doughnuts.

That's like lecturing us on safe sex after sleeping with Charlie Sheen.

As for licking doughnuts meant for the public, isn't that a crime? That doughnut should sue her for assault. Who knows what she gave it.

And her hate for America? That's the phony edginess of the fake cool, a moron substitute for intellect. I say boycott her music. But is it music?

Speaking of, she canceled on the MLB All-Stars, saying she'll make -- make it up to her fans there soon. Fans, how cute that she thought there'd be more than one.

Adopting victim status, she says she's having oral surgery instead. True, it's going to take a team of surgeons to remove her foot from her mouth. Actually, she's having a wisdom tooth taken out. Clearly, she's not using it.

Do you buy, K.G., the wisdom tooth argument? Or do you think she knows...

GUILFOYLE: No, I think she's having her tongue removed.

GUTFELD: Really?

GUILFOYLE: Going to be helpful. We'll see if she can still sing.

You know, obviously, this is an unfortunate moment. I don't know if she was, like, hating on doughnuts, hating on America. Said it was taken out of context. It wasn't. We know exactly what she was saying, what she was doing. It's disappointing. Because I think America has been pretty good to her.


GUILFOYLE: So what is her beef with America?

GUTFELD: On July 4, Eric. She should go to jail just for that.

Well, she's being investigated.

BOLLING: Yes, right.

GUTFELD: Malicious licking.

PERINO: Licked the doughnuts?

BOLLING: That's pretty gross.

GUILFOYLE: If somebody bought it and ate it.

BOLLING: That's not the grossest thing that goes on in a doughnut shop. It just happened to be caught on tape.

She can't do the MLB thing. She would obviously get booed. Very good choice not to do it. But to blame a tooth? She could just say, "Look, I made a mistake. Let's back out of it."

She can sing though, Greg. I'm going to tell you, she can sing. Ariana Grande can sing.

GUTFELD: I've never heard a single song by her.

BOLLING: Very good.

GUILFOYLE: She can blow. That's what they say.

BOLLING: Well, that's disgusting.

GUILFOYLE: No, sing really well.

GUTFELD: Dana, could her saliva be viewed as a weapon? There are more germs in the human mouth than there are on the toilet seat. I made that up.

PERINO: If she's allowed to go in and lick doughnuts and I can't take my dog out on the -- outside a patio in New York City and let him sit down with me while I have a meal.

GUTFELD: Well, I don't know if she's allowed to do that.

GUILFOYLE: Who did that to Jasper?


PERINO: All of New York. They're trying to change the law, though, which would be good.

GUTFELD: Juan, I want to read a tweet here from Susan...

GUILFOYLE: Sarandon.

GUTFELD: ... Sarandon in defense of Ariana. She writes -- show that thing -- "Today lick a doughnut in solidarity -- solidarity with Ariana Grande, a sweet, talented true American." Juan, will you be licking a doughnut? I brought one for you.

WILLIAMS: Did you, buddy?


WILLIAMS: Oh, man.

GUTFELD: It's glazed.

WILLIAMS: It's glazed?

PERINO: Don't do it, Juan. As your press secretary.

WILLIAMS: That's right. My advisor tells me that you're a trickster.

GUILFOYLE: No, you can lick it if you eat it.

WILLIAMS: You know what? I bet Greg licked it before!


GUTFELD: You're holier than thou.

WILLIAMS: I'm holier than thou? I'm not going to do it, because he licked it.

GUTFELD: No, I did not lick it.

GUILFOYLE: Why are you such a baby?

WILLIAMS: Oh, you're licking the -- hey...

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. That's...

GUTFELD: Maybe I shouldn't have purchased that.

WILLIAMS: The part that amazed me was...


WILLIAMS: ... how can she say now that she is going to lead a campaign against obesity?

GUTFELD: Yes, that's her cover. If you pick a cause, you can get away with anything.

WILLIAMS: But obesity in a doughnut shop?

PERINO: Remember, in her statement, she says, "We need to do more to educate ourselves and our children about the dangers of overeating. We need to demand more from our food industry."

GUTFELD: Yes. But the point is, she's learned this. This is learned behavior. When you're in trouble, find a cause and use it as cover.

BOLLING: She should have just eaten it: "I made a mistake. My boyfriend dared me to do it. I did it." Blame it on him. She needs a better choice of boyfriends.

GUTFELD: Behind every pop singer is a loser boyfriend. Who forces her to do things.

GUILFOYLE: Next time could you get me the ones with the sprinkles on top?

WILLIAMS: By the way, what is this about doughnut shops? I happen to be a big fan of doughnuts, not pre-licked ones like the one Gregory offered me.

GUILFOYLE: He didn't lick it.

WILLIAMS; Why would you put down doughnut shops? You said things going on behind the scene at doughnut shops.

BOLLING: I mean restaurants. You have any idea what goes on?

GUTFELD: I love doughnuts.


GUTFELD: I love doughnuts. Doughnuts are amazing.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling just drinks his calories. He doesn't eat any food.

GUTFELD: All right. We've got to go now.

Up next, could skipping breaks and working long hours really be hurting your business productivity? We'll reveal how to best maximize your time at the workplace. This tease brought to you by a robot.


PERINO: Hi. Do you ever have a hard time getting caught up on your business "to do" list? Well, it could be your habits that are keeping you from achieving your workplace goals.

According to Entrepreneur magazine, some bad habits you should stop to improve productivity include checking your e-mail constantly; scheduling weekly status meetings -- yes, I hate those; working long hours; eating lunch at your desk; and multitasking. These are all things that we all do here every day. Do you think any of those things are holding you back?

GUTFELD: They left out a tip for more productivity. IAE. I abbreviate everything. BIST. Because I save time. TISATML. Try it sometime, and you'll thank me later.

PERINO: Really good tip. That's a very good tip.

GUTFELD: I wasted a lot of time explaining it.

PERINO: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: Wait a second. Checking e-mail constantly. Isn't that part of our job? We're supposed to check our e-mail and read all the...

PERINO: Well, the advice is that -- this person is saying -- is that -- they don't work in breaking news, so it might be a little different. Is that if you're on your phone all the time always checking e-mail, you get into the e-mail rabbit hole. So what you want to do is just have a specific time between, like, 1 and 2 that you do e-mails and maybe between...

GUILFOYLE: Well, we can't do that.

PERINO: This is not necessarily applicable to us.

GUILFOYLE: I'm just trying to learn and grow.

WILLIAMS: But I must say, I do not. And people around here, especially young people who are the producers and things, they think I'm a jerk.

PERINO: Because you don't respond?

WILLIAMS: Call me. If you really have something to tell me, give me a holler.

GUILFOYLE: You're supposed to read the updates, Juan, so that you know what's happening. You know, like, "Oh...


WILLIAMS: No, no. If I know I'm...

GUILFOYLE: "... OK, this is for (ph) me."

WILLIAMS: If I have something to do I will engage. But am I supposed to look at the e-mail all day long, Kimberly?


PERINO: Well, not according to this magazine.

Eric, do you have any recommendations for habits that people should drop?

BOLLING: Maybe the social media stuff. Maybe the Twitter and the Facebook and Snapchat now. It's so addictive that I find if I'm trying to write something, write a blog or something...

PERINO: You've got to put it away.

BOLLING: ... on the show and then I'm like checking whatever. Twitter or Snapchat. Engaging and then going back. You just -- you lose your train of thought. It's distracting.

GUILFOYLE: But that's because you have ADD.

BOLLING: Put it away or take your -- one hour a day.

GUILFOYLE: Maybe it's been created. It's generational, and it's -- we're a product of...

GUTFELD: We're rewiring our brains. It's not good.

GUILFOYLE: I have to tell you something. All of this I think is pretty much wrong, OK? This is the worst list in America, pretty much. Having coffee for breakfast.

PERINO: That's the only thing for breakfast. That's what they're saying, is that you should have more than just coffee.

GUTFELD: That's my breakfast.

BOLLING: Me, too.

GUILFOYLE: Spending too much time eating a lot of breakfast instead of sucking it down and running at the same time. You're probably not winning.

PERINO: You eat breakfast.

GUILFOYLE: I eat whatever I can run and find that's like a leftover. I just devour the rest of whatever, like, Ronan didn't eat. Down it with coffee. Run. That's what I do. I mean, I don't recommend my habits, actually.

PERINO: There's all sorts of...

GUTFELD: Have you had a physical lately?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I did.

GUTFELD: I had a -- I had a procedure yesterday.

GUILFOYLE: I just had a complete blood count. Everything done. Everything's been checked out.

GUTFELD: I had the little camera.

GUILFOYLE: Peeked under the hood.

GUTFELD: I had the little camera.

PERINO: Let me ask you something.

BOLLING: Oh, boy.

GUTFELD: That's what I did yesterday.

PERINO: Can I ask one serious question? It says here that you should not eat lunch at your desk, because that decreases productivity.

GUTFELD: I've never not. That's all I do is eat at my desk. There are things in my keyboard that are so disgusting.

GUILFOYLE: It totally bugs me when people are like, "Oh, I'm out for lunch." Why?

PERINO: Don't do lunch.

Do you eat lunch at your desk?

BOLLING: The routine is no breakfast, coffee, and then it's like a bag of pretzels and a bag of peanuts during the day at my desk and then wait until dinner.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. You're like the zoo.


GUILFOYLE: You're like the animals at the zoo.

BOLLING: The zoo?

GUILFOYLE: You like eating peanuts.

PERINO: That was a fascinating "E" block. I like this real estate. Keep me parked right here. All right. "One More Thing" up next.

GUILFOYLE: This is like...


BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." K.G. kicks it off.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, yes, I'm very ready for you. Are you ready for all these baby girls? They're absolutely delicious. So cute.

America's first all-girl quintuplets, they are finally back together again, now that the last baby has returned home from the hospital. Feast your eyes on Ava, Olivia, Hazel, Riley and Parker. They were born back in April, weighing between 2 pounds and 2 pounds six ounces each. They're very cute. So they're color coded, right, with the little bandannas and things like that.

And then, if you can believe this, they go through 40 bottles and 60 diapers a day. Play it.

GUTFELD: Like me.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having four at home, you're extremely busy. It's still a lot of kids. And so, you know, we just couldn't find, you know, the amount of time that we wanted to keep, you know, going back up there to the hospital every day. So we're just thrilled to finally have them all home.


GUILFOYLE: That makes five. It's like the new starting lineup for America's girl soccer team, right? Maybe? Or basketball, maybe?



PERINO: OK. That was very cute.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

PERINO: By the way. I'm irritated with the government. Because now the government is not even able to trust the government anymore.

Do you remember we've been telling you this story about the Chinese that supposedly hacked into the American government computers to the Office of Personnel Management. They basically hold all the information for anyone who worked in the government that might have applied for a background check.

Initially, Obama administration, the White House, confirmed 4.2 million people were affected. They had to revise that today. Because guess what? It's larger than that. It was 21.5 million people are affected by this. This has huge consequences. I don't see how we don't see this as an act of cyber war. And I think that the White House should actually have to be forced to answer for this -- for these problems.

BOLLING: Twenty-one million?

PERINO: It's like basically easier to announce who wasn't affected.


BOLLING: All righty. Remember when Hillary Clinton said she was of the people, for the people and by the people? So she got this Scooby van. Take a look at the Scooby van. Right? Because she's one of the people. Everyone's chasing her around.

Well, look what the America's -- America Rising PAC uncovered. Hillary Clinton getting aboard her $10 million Lear jet in Iowa.

GUILFOYLE: Explains that.

BOLLING: I believe that was a few days ago. The only reason why we know it's hers is because we can see the blue pant suit underneath the wing right there. Ten million. Of the people for the people -- Greg.

GUTFELD: Here's some...


GUTFELD: Greg's Media News, now with fluoride.


GUTFELD: I did this interview with RealClearPolitics. They do this thing where they take you around in a car?

PERINO: Yes. The Commute.

GUTFELD: Yes, The Commute. It's interesting, because this guy had never driven, Tom Bevin, in New York City. You should watch this. Go to RealClearPolitics and just watch how terrified I am throughout this entire thing. I have no idea what I'm saying. It's part one and part two, but I'm sweating, and I'm actually crying at a point.

GUILFOYLE: You look pale in there.

GUTFELD: I'm terrified this guy can't drive.

PERINO: Tom Bevin's a good driver.

GUTFELD: But he -- not in New York City.

GUILFOYLE: The seat belt looks very tight on you.

GUTFELD: Oh, thank you. Awful person.

GUILFOYLE: Tight and sweaty.

BOLLING: You're up, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, oh, that was too good. Poor Gregory.

Anyway, on Wednesday a federal judge upheld cancellation of the federal patent and trademark of the Washington NFL football team's nickname. I won't say it. But anyway, this is the biggest legal and public relations battle loss for the team yet. And it doesn't go into effect until the team has exhausted its appeals. But let me tell you.

BOLLING: Says right there. It says "the Redskins" right there.

WILLIAMS: I'm not going to use that slur.

BOLLING: We've got to go. We have four seconds lefts left. That's it for "The Five." "Special Report" next.

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