New charges filed in the death of George Floyd

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 3, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Juan Williams, Greg Gutfeld, Jesse Watters, and Lawrence Jones. It is 5:00 in New York City, and this is THE FIVE. This is a Fox News alert, protests continuing across the country as we get breaking news. On the other four officers involved in George Floyd's death, prosecutors upgrading the charge against former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, the man that was on Floyd's neck for more eight minutes.

He's now facing a second degree murder charge. And for the first time, charges are being brought against the three other officers involved. They are being charged with two counts of aiding and abetting a second degree murder. Minnesota attorney general Keith Ellison warning that the process will take time.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to take months. And I don't know how many, but it is better to make sure that we have a solid case, fully investigated, researched before we go to trial than to rush it. We don't -- and so it will take awhile. And I can't set a deadline on that.


PERINO: Juan Williams, could we get your reaction to that news today about the upgraded charge for Chauvin and now charges against the other three officers?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Well, in terms of the charges against Chauvin, Dana, I think the key is that what we've seen from the attorney general, Keith Ellison, is a move from the charge, third degree, which would not necessarily have included intent to kill to second degree where he will, in the courtroom, have to prove that there was some intent on the officer's part.

With regard to the other officers, I think, again, it's saying that they were complicit in a crime by not intervening their voices by not intervening as they could see over the course of, you know, the eight plus minutes that someone was not only distress but indicating that he could not breathe. In fact, today, Ben Crump, the lawyer for the family, at a press conference I guess or commemoration at the site of the murder said that in his opinion.

This was torture, and that he sees it therefore as a necessity, that you charge the other officers withstanding by as they could see the torture was taking place. And they could hear Mr. Floyd saying that he can't breathe.

PERINO: Lawrence Jones, you've had three hours now since we saw you on the Daily Briefing to think over this information and digest it and get your thoughts now.

LAWRENCE JONES, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yeah, I remember last Friday, Dana. I predicted this on THE FIVE because it was just -- in the probable cause complaint, when it said that an officer said that he was concerned, that was one strike. When he said he wanted to flip him over, because, you know, he's indicating that something is going on.

Then you have the other officer that checks the pulse and says that he's not able to find the pulse. There's another strike. And then he stays on his neck for almost three minutes after. I think that's where you'll see the prosecutors make that case that there was intent in play. The problem with that is, as they have charged the other officers, which I think they should.

Those officers, those two specifically, especially wanting to check the pulse, is going to make the case that I tried to stop him by saying I could not find a pulse. But even though I didn't physically stop him, I at least alerted him that there was a problem there.

PERINO: Greg, one of the things that the attorney general of Minnesota, Keith Ellison, repeated several times was a call for patience, because he said this process is going to take months. And of course, we've seen just within the last 10 days what can happen after a situation where you don't get the charge that you want immediately. And now, they can look at months before justice is needed out.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yeah. I mean, I'm -- I -- it's kind of hard for me to be happy about this. I mean, if they had done this sooner, could we have prevented all the destruction and mayhem? Or would it have mattered at all at this point? People I saw looting and destroying my neighborhood, they weren't politically active. They were criminally active.

They were having a blast destroying people's livelihoods. So I don't think they're paying much attention now to what is happening right now. It's become a different thing. On top of that, it's kind of interesting. I think you do develop an incentive when you see politicians react to pressure from the violence and the protesters as opposed to pressure, from say, other people, lawful abiding people.

Those people can't exert pressure under politicians. But somehow, rioters agitators and looters can. I hope that this helps reduce some of this action. And I hope also that we see the same kind of excitement over these arrests that we do in the arrests for the scum that killed the retired police captain or beat innocent shopkeepers and their wives, you know, unconscious.

Are we going to we see the same applause and excitement over this? But I don't know if this does anything right. Because if you believe the system, the systemic racism is incurable and these guys are found not guilty, then it will be a riot. If they only get a couple years, then it will a riot. If the main guy is not guilty, huge riot. There's all of these excuses for the next purge.

And these purges will come up now more frequently, because the understanding is we have redefined violence as justice. It is legal now for you to hurt people. So this is going to keep happening again and again. It's hard for me to go hooray.


GUTFELD: We kicked the riots down the road.

PERINO: Jesse, one of the things that prosecutors keep stressing, in addition to patience, is that the burden of proof is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And that was why I think they took some time for the prosecutors to figure out what the charge was going to be for the other three officers, in addition. Because as Greg said, like, if they go to trial and the jury doesn't convict, you know, then the prosecutors will be in a really bad way and so could all of us.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Well, Keith Ellison knows a lot more than we do, Dana. And he has got investigators looking into the relationship between the officer and Floyd, because if you think about it, you don't just jam your knee under the neck of a guy that you don't know for no reason. Yes, maybe he's an insane racist that just wanted to kill an innocent black man, possible. It's just not likely in my opinion.

From what we know, they worked at the same club together, a nightclub which had a lot of suspicious activity. People should be looking into the nightclub. Was there any trafficking going on? They worked closely together on a regular basis. Also, Floyd rumored to have moonlit in another industry, which is kind of provocative.

There could be a lot of reasons that their relationship became controversial. Let's just put it that way. And maybe Floyd knew something he wasn't supposed to know. Maybe there was an operation that we're not aware of that soon was going to be investigated. Because if you have a guy kneeing a guy in the neck like that over a counterfeit 20, and you have the rest of the crew standing around and watching, it looks like a premeditated hit.

And then when you have the first report to say oh, you know, he didn't die that way. He was on methamphetamine and other narcotics. That's highly suspicious. Because then other reports came directly out afterwards contradicting that. So there's a lot of things at play. And you can find at the end of the day, this is not racially motivated at all.

This was some sort of criminal thing that went haywire. And this was a hit that was executed extremely poorly. And they thought they were going to get away with it. While the rest of the country runs wild and tries to, you know, capitalize on the energy from coming out of a lock down, and knowing that Biden is not going to ramp up that kind of energy. They have to ride this energy out until November.

JONES: Yeah, Dana. Jesse makes an interesting point when it comes to the autopsy report. And as you know, many in the audience may not know that the person that conducts the autopsy report is a member of the state. And so, you know, there's working relationships between the police departments because they depend on them to figure out the cause of death. And when they -- these victims die, and so, you know, they use them a lot during an investigation.

There's going to be back and forth on the conclusion that an independent autopsy, and people around the world that are respected in the industry came up with versus what they did. Also, as we're talking about the attorneys general as he got these charges. There's something very critical here. It takes eight to 12 months in Minnesota to come up with a case, to just even charge.

Forget those documents of probable cause. Not even get a conviction, but just charge if it's a cop. That is not the same for a private citizen. And so as we're talking and having the conversations about different reforms, many Americans, especially people in the community will be asking, why is there a different standard for a private citizen versus a law enforcement officer? I think they deserve an answer.

PERINO: It's a great question. All right, thanks, everyone. Coming up, former President Obama set to weigh-in on the death of George Floyd, but up next, Greg's monologue on the former police captain murdered by looters.


GUTFELD: What we're about to show you will break your heart and give you a visual of a reality you won't elsewhere. This is David Dorn in his very last moments on Earth. He's bleeding to death on a sidewalk in front of a looted shot. He's a former police captain protecting a store. His name, David Dorn, he was 77. His death filmed on Facebook Live. He was a black man, a family man, a good man.

Black lives matter, but not to looters, rioters, and agitators. Shall we blame this on systemic racism? Who shot him? Who knows? A stranger, make Seth Rogen or Paton Oswalt already bailed him out. Here are words from Mr. Dorn's family.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was senseless over TVs, over stuff that is replaceable. And they're forgetting the real message for the protests and the positiveness that is supposed to come out of it. And we get this negative light shown on a situation that really needed light to be brought to it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just hope that the person that did this, that they come forth or whatever, because this is just so senseless. I'm tired of it. I'm just tired.


GUTFELD: The fact is (Inaudible) to the mob begets only more of the mob, redefining bloodlust as justified leads to death. And not just Mr. Dorn's but a country's, too. Yesterday was black-out Tuesday where Instagrams set their background to black to support the protests. The media blacks out the violence to hide their culpability. Maybe Mr. Dorn's death can change things.

Maybe Mr. Dorn's death can change things. Maybe we can protest loudly in his name and loudly demand action. It's time. Because there's no superman coming to save the day for us, there's no one but us. And to quote a CNN anchor, who says protests need to be peaceful?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful? Because I can show you that outraged citizens are the ones who have made America what she is and led to any major milestones. Be honest, this is not a tranquil time.


GUTFELD: No thanks to you. As cities are ravaged, he says protests don't have to be peaceful. Chris, I invite you to meet me in me neighborhood to see what outrage created, the ravaged stores, the dead-eyed looks from people trying to salvage what is left of their lives. If only they could work in media and see the silver lining in their ruin. This is not a tranquil time. Thanks for the honesty, Chris. You know, Juan, there are so many disturbing parts to this.

This is obviously a black man who probably helped many people in black communities throughout his life murdered by a looter and they filmed it. It wasn't -- you didn't see anybody helping him. You just saw his body bleeding out and people filming it.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, it's horrific. I don't think there's anything to say but that this is a horror show. You know it's -- and the idea of the social media and even I think somebody was saying, you know, hang in there, you know, like oh, gee, like someone was trying. But to me, I was glad it was removed because it's a human being.

And so the people, who did this, Greg, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law as criminals, and having taken a good man's life. I don't think there's anyway to get around that. Now, let me say, I do have another viewpoint on this, which is that, you know, we're discussing his death but we --you know, we didn't discuss something like Breonna Taylor, the woman that was 26 years old, shot eight times in her bed as police execute a no- knock warrant and just rush into her house, turned out to be the wrong house.

But they killed this 26-year-old in her bed. And we don't talk about it. And I think for lots of people, this amounts then to selective morale outrage. You know, everybody picks a case and says I don't want to look at that one. Well, why haven't we seen more discussion of Breonna Taylor? Remember, it took two months to have a discussion of that Georgia jogger.

And if it wasn't for the video, that case might have been swept under the rug. So I think that you see a lot of peaceful demonstrators. And for the most part, peaceful demonstrators are the story here. There are looters. There are vandals. There are people like those who killed a man in St. Louis. But for most people, it's a sense of frustration of what does it take to get justice?

Do you have to have a video before someone believes you? Do you have to have international protests to get the criminal justice system to understand that people, black people are being treated in an unjust manner?

GUTFELD: I honestly can't believe you said that after we have spent over 10 days or so talking about Mr. Floyd, in which everybody is in agreement about the horrendous death. We have covered these injustices regularly. You know what? There was an elderly couple, Juan that was executed at a veteran's cemetery by a black man that died in a forest. No one dared cover that.

An elderly couple visiting their son at a cemetery, so we can sit here and you can take this story and shift it into a tit for tat. That's not what it's about. This segment is not about injustice. It's about a man's death, all right.

WILLIAMS: I'm agreeing with you.


GUTFELD: Let me move on, OK? I want to get other people in. Dana, I did not see this story anywhere on the other networks but online. Why do you think that is? Do you think this isn't important to them?

PERINO: Well, I think that -- I don't know what is in their minds. But of course, whatever ends up on the front page or whatever ends up on air is definitely an editorial decision. And somebody is making that decision and deciding that there's so much news to cover. And they're saying, OK, like, this news is more important to us. And there's -- look, we're all drinking from a firehouse, a lot of news out there.

But I also -- there's two points I'd like to make on this, one, I think the fact that there were not police out and about in order to protect innocent people from these looters, these rioters, arsonists, the people that commit this violence. That is a horrible thing, because this man, Mr. Dorn, he obviously served his community.

He's a public servant. He paid his taxes. He was 77 years old. Talk about heartbreaking and listening to his daughter-in-law begging for justice and saying that she's exhausted. And I think we can relate to that. I also just wanted to point out one other thing, Greg. It was devastating to see that there's Go Fund Me accounts for lots of different people.

So David Dorn has one. And David Underwood, he was killed in Los Angeles. They're around, you know, $50,000 or so, right? The Minneapolis Freedom Fund is at $20 million. This is driven by celebrities. And that is a bail fund that does not distinguish between people who are arrested for protesting and people that were arrested for bigger crimes like looting and vandalism.

So celebrities are bailing out theft, fine. You can do that. But what does it say as a society that these men are not being supported as well and their families.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Jesse, you think that CNN has a problem showing stuff like this because they have defended Antifa? They say non-violent protests. What is wrong with that? So they can't show the consequences because they're culpable.

WATTERS: Yeah. It's like hiding exculpatory evidence, you know? They do that in order to shape the narrative when it doesn't fit what the truth actually is. The point is this, Greg. Black lives matter. Do they matter less when a black man takes that life, or do black lives matter more when a white person takes that life? No. Black -- all black lives matter equally no matter who takes it.

Yet, we only see this nationwide outrage when there's an incident of a white person taking the life of a black man. And that is done. And you've talked about it. We've talked about it by the Democrat media, corporate power structure. And they do that to divide. They do it for profit. They do it to distract so they can put their hands in people's pockets and keep their positions of power.

Because what did the president say last week, when the looting starts the shooting starts. This is a perfect example of that. And the mayor of St. Louis, not totally responsible for this, the looters that did this guy are, but she didn't protect the community from these looters. And that's what happens when there's looting. There's death. So that's on her to a certain extent.

GUTFELD: Last word to you, Lawrence. I'm sure this is -- go ahead.

JONES: It's just devastating, because I feel like there's now become this competition for what life matters the most. Can we just, like, all stand up for life? Like -- and just say people that are innocent, that are killed, we stand with the families that we want to go after the bad guys that do it? You know, I'm afraid because this reminds me back in July 7th, 2016 where five cops were shot.

The guy that assassinated them, I had the exclusive interview with the family. And the family said that he was upset about a traffic stop. And he goes up there and tries to do vigilante justice and kills five cops. You know what? It wasn't just that he killed five cops because you killed someone. But the five cops that he targeted were community police that people loved and respected in the community that were on the taskforce to bring people together.

And you went out there and you shot them. That's what happens when chaos happens. And I'm afraid that America is on fire right now. I love this country. It's the greatest country in the world, but I want equal justice. And I think we should all be outraged when an innocent American -- someone that wears blue or someone with a hoodie on or someone that just -- from a drive-by. We should always be outraged when one of our family members dies.

GUTFELD: All right. Coming up, former President Obama speaks out on the death of George Floyd.


WILLIAMS: Fox News alert. President Obama speaking out on camera for the first time about the death of George Floyd and all the social unrest that's followed. Take a look.


BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And let me begin by acknowledging that although all of us have been feeling pain, uncertainty, disruption, some folks have been feeling it more than others. Most of all, the pain that's been experienced by the families of George and Breonna, Ahmaud, Tony, and Sean, and too many others to mention.

Challenges and structural problems here in the United States have been thrown into high relief. There would be outcomes not just of the immediate moments in time, but they're the result of a long history of slavery and Jim Crow and redlining and institutionalized racism that too often have been the plague, the original sin of our society.


WILLIAMS: Dana, what do you think of this message coming from the president, former president at this moment?

PERINO: Well, we haven't -- because we've been on air, we weren't able to hear the entire thing, so I don't know what else he said or if he asked for any sort of concrete actions. I know that there's always a lot of pressure and requests from people to have former presidents weigh in on things. And so again, I haven't heard -- what he said there, I think a lot of us could probably agree with that. So I don't know all that he said.

I do think, of course, this is coming in the middle of this election year. Juan, your column in the New York Times today was extremely well written, and well-argued. And I would submit that Joe Biden has had a problem, an enthusiasm problem with younger black voters.

Now, this -- incidents after George Floyd and the protest, maybe that will be the spark that gets them, you know, enthusiastic about voting. But I would say that the Trump campaign started early on right from the beginning, even before inauguration, that they were determined to try to win at least more of the African American vote. 2

Now, they might not be able to do that through some earned media, it might not be possible, but they will have so much money to try to look at Biden's record. And in terms of paid media, and you know, campaigns really need resources, and President Trump's team has plenty of them. So I'm sure that President Obama will be out and about campaigning for Joe Biden, but it's going to be tough to keep this from getting -- to feel too political.

WILLIAMS: So Greg, the -- President Obama did go on to condemn the violence that has I know depressed you and upset you. But I was thinking in political terms, you know, I think that when you see the president -- President Obama come out as Dana was saying, in a sense, it energizes so many people who are Democrats to vote Democrat.

And the question is President Trump has been taking a hard, you know, law and order stand. I'm not sure exactly how that benefits him at this moment except to, you know, try to stir his base. But it's puzzling to me because he's the incumbent. He's the guy in power as the unrest has occurred. What do you think?

GUTFELD: Well, first of all, anybody talking about law and order and saying that stirring up his base is offensive to me because I need law and order right now. I need to know that we have some rules to preserve a society that right now is under attack by an insurrection. I need law in order to make sure that my neighborhood can be rebuilt and not destroyed months later.

Former President Obama mentioned structural, long history, institutional racism. What if you want to help and you say, how do I fix it? How do I fix it? How do I fix it? What can I do? No one really has an answer because when you get to the specifics of what you can do, people are actually doing it. And there's actually documented progress that people are fixing things.

Take the Minneapolis Police Department, right. They've tried. They've tried to increase minority police. They've instituted diversity classes. They've had comprehensive, documented plans to reform their entire force, and yet they have problems attracting officers. That is not systemic racism, if you are trying to change things.

And if you look at progress, and you see what people are doing, declines in shootings and just people trying to do better at work, and you say, well, you know, we still have institutional racism. What that saying is, nothing we can do can change it. Therefore, violence is inevitable.

The fact is, if a young, black, successful, earnest man enters any business looking for a job, human resources will be drooling. They will be drooling, right? So I don't -- the idea that this is still institutional racism, and you can't tell us what to do means that we can't do anything.

And just the last word. Law and order is going to work when you have dozens of -- dozens of states being destroyed because we need it. Boy, do we need it.

WILLIAMS: Lawrence, what did you think of seeing President Obama come out and talk about structural racism?

JONES: Yes. I mean, I want to hear the President's full comments, but it's something that George W. Bush released the statement and talked about as well. Look, I think a lot of people are on edge about this and they feel like Greg, what can they do?

I would note that the police department through their police chief has tried to implement some reforms, but he's experienced a lot of pushback from the police union there, right? And so, there are a lot of officers that are trying to do the right thing and get it done, but there's also these unions that get in the way of that.

So, you know, we don't have enough time to go into that. I'm sure we're going to be talking about this from day to day. But there are some solutions on the table.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, I just want to hear your thoughts. There's so much on the table here.

WATTERS: I know we have to be quick, because we had to pay the bills. But it was quite jarring to hear the black president talk about how racist the country is that elected him twice. And he was there for the last eight years, and this country is still racist. It's systematically racist. I'm not sure what that means.

The only suggestion from his camp on how to change the systematic racism was from his V.P. Biden yesterday. And you know what his idea was? Have a commission. I mean, really? That's your idea. I mean, that's like the stereotypical kick the can down the road politician idea that just bury something that we've heard for the last 100 years.

So no one has any ideas except yell, scream, be mad. And like I said earlier, they're just riding this rage in November because Biden himself, they know he can bring this over the finish line.

WILLIAMS: Oh boy. I hope that people know about police reform. Even President Trump talks about that. Anyway, straight ahead, President Trump hitting back at the media's freakout over his church visit. We're going to have that story for you next on THE FIVE.


WATTERS: President Trump hitting back after catching heat for visiting St. John's Church in D.C. during protests on Monday. Democrats in the media piling on the president.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): What is this, a banana republic?

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): If Donald Trump wants to gas someone next time, start right here.

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN: He calls them thugs? Who's the thug here? Hiding in a bunker, hiding behind a suit?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holding up that Bible would have made P.T. Barnum proud.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Here in New York, we actually read the Bible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's unleashing violence on this country in such a way that it could very well threaten our knit, our existence as a nation.


WATTERS: All right, so Greg, now we know there was no tear gas. The protests weren't peaceful. And it wasn't a photo op, it was just a powerful message. So what say you?

GUTFELD: I'll keep it quick. I don't care at all about this controversy. I'm not worried about a Bible, I'm worried about bottles filled with alcohol that are used to set fires. I'm used -- I'm more concerned about sticks and knives and things like that than a Bible. This, this is a political argument that is really good for segments on shows. But we need help. I'm pissed.

Chuck Schumer, a senator from New York, you know, what's he done for his constituents? He blocked -- he blocked a resolution to condemn the riots. I mean, enough about this. This is just -- this is just politics.

WATTERS: Well, we're going to finish talking about it anyway, no matter what your feelings are. Dana, I mean, the President -- I mean, if he stays inside, they say he's hiding in this1 bunker. If he goes outside, and then he's a strong man. Like, if he had read the Bible, they w1ould have said separation between church and state. Like it's always going to be negative.

PERINO: Well, possibly true. Although I do think that this idea to go to St. John's while a good one could have been much better executed. There are a lot of questions. And a lot of eyewitnesses that were there. People who say they did not hear the warnings. Apparently, Bill Barr, which I don't understand his role here, he says clear it in the morning, but then nobody cleared it. Well, who was responsible for that and why aren't they getting fired today?

And this summer antics over not tear gas but pepper balls versus pepper spray, it still makes your eyes water and makes you feel like vomiting. So I feel like a great idea. I think that going to St. John's was a great idea, a great show of resilience. But they have the power within the White House to make this look a lot more smooth and then you wouldn't have anybody talking about this.

WATTERS: Well, I don't blame them. I blame the people that are throwing bottles and burning the churches. Terrence, what do you think -- Lawrence, what do you think, about the so-called controversy?

JONES: I mean, so there's two sides to this. I mean, the politics of this of going over there and holding up the Bible, all politicians do photo op, so that doesn't bother me. What does concern is I call the reporter that works for us before I went on air, and they told me that it was peaceful and that they had just seen two bottles go across, but that had been happening all day.

And so if it was a peaceful in which I believe I reported because he was right there at the line, then that is problematic. Now, I'm not holding the president responsible. It looks like Bill Barr is the guy that was told that morning, according to the White House Press Secretary, to implement this. And so they do have some answers about that.

But the whole -- the Bible thing, I think that's a distraction. Politicians do photo ops. Democrats do it as well.

WATTERS: Well, I know this. When Republicans leave the White House in Washington, D.C., Juan, it's not a friendly territory. You know, what I mean? It's not like when Barack Obama leaves the White House for a stroll down the park. It's President Trump and he's in Washington. You know, there's going to be people that are a little angry, especially now.

WILLIAMS: Right. I agree. But I think most Americans want law in order to the extent that we don't embrace rioting or riotous behavior. But this was a peaceful crowd. And the idea that you would use pepper spray, smoke bombs to disperse a peaceful crowd SO the President can walk around cross the street to take a photo, I think it is offensive.

And I just don't understand why anyone would want to defend that. That seems to me to be outrageous, and again, an abuse of public trust, you know how we use law enforcement in this country. And if you listen to religious leaders, including the Catholic bishop here in Washington, Episcopal Bishop who's in charge of that St. John's Church, they talked about the fact that he wasn't there to pray, to express condolences, or grief, or empathy. It was all about him. I think that's the problem.

WATTERS: OK, well, it wasn't a peaceful crowd because the parks commissioner guys said they were throwing things and they just burned the church although not before. OK, more to come on THE FIVE.


JONES: Longtime civil rights activist Bob Woodson challenging the mainstream media narrative of what these protests are about. Take a look.


BOB WOODSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: It's more class than it is race. And so they use that. And now race is being used to deflect the attention away from the failures of people running those institutions. And now after 50 years of liberal democrats running the country cities where we have, all of these inequities that we have, race is being used as a ruse, as a means of deflecting attention away from critical questions such as why are poor blacks failing and systems run by their own people?


JONES: So then I want to go to you first. Isn't there two -- and I'm going to get to the other part later, but is there two categories here? They're the people that are protesting against the system, and then they're the liberals that have their own agenda.

PERINO: Well, I think it depends on all of that. I do think that Woodson is making a great point. And I would point to something that we've talked about before which is that let's -- when Greg said what can we do. We cannot accept the results from the K through 12 education in our nation cities. It is atrocious what's happening in education.

So, if I mentioned one thing, if you are looking for more opportunity in order to move up, you have to start there.

JONES: Yes. So Juan, what about them when it comes to the policies because that is a fact? Most of the cities that are experiencing these problems are liberal ran cities.

WILLIAMS: Right. They're run by Democrats, if that's what you're saying. I mean, I think it's important to understand it gets partisan and politicized so quickly, but many of these cities exist in terms of larger corporate structures, employment. Dana, talked about failed education systems, public education systems. You know, that's why I'm a strong supporter of charter schools. We need innovation there.

But I don't think it's just that. I mean, I think it's, you know, you have Republicans, Democrats, Independents, who are involved in a structure that has historical roots that are systemic, and that have done tremendous damage to racial unity or the possibility of racial unity in the United States. And I think we should try to get away from the partisanship, and try to look at it honestly.

JONES: All right, Greg and Jesse, we'll get to you on the other side of the break. "ONE MORE THING" is up next.


PERINO: All right, welcome back to THE FIVE. So we've all been a little long-winded today. We have time for final thoughts. Greg, let's start with you.

GUTFELD: I just want to go back to the last segment. If you assume that systemic racism is forever, then that means you can never define specifics that will actually help. So it will just always be that excuse. The bottom line, if Black men and black women want opportunity for success, they have to leave the Democratic Party because they prefer you to think just one way.

If you join the Republicans, the only color they see is green. Republicans take black energy and they channel it into success. The Democrats take black energy, and they channel it into grievance and anger. And it's never been more obvious than now.

JONES: That's why Republicans need to show up in the community and they failed at that.

WATTERS: Right. So let's talk about the inner city that are run by Democrats here. If you put affordable housing in the inner city, and then you send all the jobs overseas to China, and you let illegal immigrants come in and take the rest of the jobs, people can't work.

And then people can't protect themselves because you make it very difficult for them to buy handguns. And then the only people that have the handguns are the criminals, and then you just get preyed upon and you can't defend yourself. And then the police come in and the police the area very aggressively, and anytime there's a bad apple, the union won't let you discipline the bad apple and the police chief is in the pocket of the liberal mayor.

And then the liberal mayor says you can't send your son and daughter to a better school. And then every election they blame white Republicans that don't even live in the city and don't control any of the levers of power. And that's how the game is played.

JONES: That's why we need to be there.

PERINO: And that's why -- and that's why the jack built that house. All right, Jesse Watters, everybody. Thank you. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

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