Navy Yard shooter received positive military evaluations

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 17, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City. And this is "The Five."


PERINO: We are learning today more about the gunman who opened fire at the Washington Navy Yard yesterday and about the 12 victims that he killed. All of their names were released today. The victims range in age from 50 to 73.

Earlier, the FBI and D.C. authorities gave a new update on the shooting. They say that 34-year-old former Navy reservist Aaron Alexis acted alone and the investigation is now focused on evidence recovery and information gathering.

Many questions remain unanswered. Take a listen.


RON MACHIN, U.S. ATTORNEY: As we have moved from a crisis stage into the investigative stage of this case, our focus and efforts are going to be on answering the questions that we all have. What caused this individual to kill so many innocent men and women? How did he carry out and plan this attack? How did he get access to the weapons? What could have been done to prevent this tragedy? And most importantly, whether anyone else aided or assisted him wittingly or unwittingly in this tragedy.


PERINO: So, 24 hours ago we sat here and talked about this as it was unfolding. Right before we went to air, there was still question of whether or not there was a second shooter or somebody that had helped Alexis to commit these murders. Now, we know a lot more.

One of the main questions that we talked about yesterday was how could he possibly have had access and gotten onto the Navy Yard base with a weapon. But it turns out he had legitimate access to it the Navy Yard, a valid pass. So, they're not -- that's not even in question anymore. He had clearance.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yes. There's some questions of whether that pass should have been invalidated. I think he was fired on the Friday prior. So, that probably should have been taken out of the system.

Also, you know, at the end of the show last night, I said how long before the left starts pointing the finger at gun control and starts looking for more gun control, and all night last night, you know, the liberals who are looking for more gun control or against handguns or whatever, were pumping their case based on a false report that this was an AR-15 assault rifle. That there was a report out there it was.

It wasn't. It was a shotgun. It was probably legally purchased and brought -- he rushed the gate as Commander Lippold told us last night. It was breaking news last night.

I need to point something out though. In 1993, Bill Clinton used executive order, an executive order, to make sure that military bases -- you weren't allowed to carry a firearm on a military base even if you are trained and licensed to have a firearm. This probably would have been thwarted if that law was in effect. Ft. Hood probably would have been thwarted if that law was in effect.

So, there are a lot of things to point your finger at. I would look at the mental health of this guy before I start looking at passes or guns (ph).

PERINO: We're going to talk about gun control issues coming up. And I want to make sure that we have enough time to do that.

But, first, Bob, can I get your thoughts about the complex portrait that we're getting of him. Yesterday we heard that he might have had some run-

ins with the law. That happens to be true. But he got cleared in one of those. Then, there is a portrait that he went to Thailand and he wanted to be a Buddhist and that he spoke fluent Thai and he would spend six hours a day at temple on a Sunday.

But then, another one, which has said he carried a gun because he was quite paranoid that people would steal his belongings. And he would play violent video games. "Call of Duty" was his favorite, for hours on end, too.


PERINO: How was somebody like this who was in the Navy got in trouble, was released from the Navy. I don't know dishonorable or not. Then he comes back as a contractor, has access and has weapons.

BECKEL: Well, that's the whole point here. I mean, he was dismissed from the Navy because of a series of mental problems. And yet he was allowed to come back onto a base with capacity as contractor with secret clearance.

The other thing is this guy that practiced Buddhism, which is probably the most peaceful of all religions in the world. He went to temple. He lived with some Thai people, a Thai family for several months and then went to Thailand.

Now, I've been to Thailand several times but not to go to temple. The -- so, I don't know exactly -- it's a very mixed picture. This is a guy that clearly one thing is not in doubt and this is a guy with a lot of problems and people knew about it.

PERINO: Andrea, on mental health question, we've only been doing this show two years. I can remember just three times in the last year that we've talked about a major shooting rampage where you had somebody that had some sort of problem with mental illness in the past and yet we still haven't figured out a way even to start to crack that nut.

On the mental health question, what do you think we should, if anything -- what could be done to prevent something like this from happening?

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Well, I think specifically with the military because the instance that I remember of course is Ft. Hood where Hasan had made his plans known to a board of army psychologists. It appears and Bob mentioned this that he was being treated for mental illness. There was a documented history that the Navy was aware of.

So, the question then becomes, who dropped the ball and why? Did they drop it because of political correctness? Like in the case of Hasan. Maybe that's too stigmatizing for the military to talk about mental illness.

I do think it's a problem. They said he could have suffered from post-

traumatic stress disorder, which a lot of veterans or people who have been involved in crisis suffer from.

But the question becomes, when you start to see signs of this, and there were pervasive signs, clear signs, just a couple months ago, why did he not be declared unfit? Why did he have that clearance? He was fired on a Friday. Why was he allowed back on the bases?

And with Major Nidal Hasan, the only reason that 13 people were mowed down and it wasn't more, was because a woman from an off-base station came on with her firearm and stopped him.

Same thing with Virginia Tech incident. It was somebody who came from no-

gun zone to campus to stop the shooter. The media has left out that fact. Same thing here -- there was nobody on that base that could have stopped him.

And, Dana, this is my issue -- we trust these guys and these gals with armory, ammunition, all of these types of things. We trust them to keep us safe but we don't trust them to have firearms on the base. To me, it's a huge injustice.

PERINO: Many different angles there, Gutfeld.

On the Buddhist question, are you buying the idea that he -- maybe he was searching for something and thought Buddhism was the place where he could find some peace?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yes, I don't know. I really don't care. I mean, the desire to know more about the villain than the victim is not healthy for it creates more villains.

It's a good exercise to restrain your curious urges because healthy amounts of attention often come at the expense of the victim later when people start romanticizing such things.

PERINO: OK, I'm not trying to romanticize him. We're having a discussion about what happened.

GUTFELD: No, I guess what I'm saying is -- what I'm saying is, I don't care if he was a Buddhist. I don't care that he liked to drink, all that crap. It doesn't matter to me.

What matters to me is the amount of media that is devoted to this stuff, creates homicide by media in my mind. Coverage of them actually accelerates or creates more of these guys -- the Sandy Hook shooter, he emulated the Norway fiend.

BECKEL: Well --

BOLLING: Can I throw something in here very quickly? Gabby Giffords, Holmes, the guy that shot up the Aurora movie theater, Adam Lanza, and now, Alexis -- they all had mental illness. They all had mental issues.

They're either on antidepressants or being treated by doctors for depression in various forms of mental illness. But all you hear about are video games and you hear about the guns. All day long and all night last night, video games and the guns.

You can't blame the video games and guns. If a criminal drinks a fifth of vodka, steals a car and goes and mows down some school kid, do you blame the car or the fifth of vodka? No. You blame the criminal.

And this is what we should be doing. We should be focusing on this guy, Mr. Aaron Alexis and his mental issues, and how he got guns with mental problems. Therein lies the problem.

BECKEL: Well, I was going to get into that but we're saving that apparently for the next segment. But the one thing that we can say about almost all of these people is that they all have mental problems.

I mean, if you look at it, which one of these people -- who would do this if he didn't have a mental problem, right? Almost by definition, anybody that goes and shoots a bunch of people has got a mental problem. So --

PERINO: So, let's talk about the victims a little bit. We mentioned that the age range was ages 50 to 73.

These are all people who, Andrea, had chosen -- their career had been to work for the government. They were entrusted with all of our information -

- this is where we have secret weapons systems are designed. You had people -- one of the victims was the surviving spouse said that he and his wife were just about ready to start spending their retirement years and that was over.

You know, only 8:20 in the morning when all of this started. So, they were already at work. And they gathered in the cafeteria which is a common thing to do and I'm sure they were probably talking about how terrible the Redskins were on Sunday.

How do you think we can best pay tribute to these victims?

TANTAROS: I think by just talking about them the way that you are, Dana. I mean, they are the ones we should focus on.

I mean, Greg is right. They are heroes. They were in senior positions in the military as well. That's why he sought them out, many of them, because he was angry that they were in a supervisor role and he felt he was wronged and that's why he was fired, so let's take it to the top and he had these grievances.

But, again, you are dealing with somebody who -- so what if he watched 16 hours of violent video games and that permeated his brain. A lot of people do that, they don't pick up guns and go out deliberately and shoot these people who are innocent and end their lives. And I just -- it is such a tragedy again for the military that's already dealing with I just think so much especially these families.

PERINO: What do you think, Greg, will happen now on military bases about clearances for all sorts of individuals?

GUTFELD: I don't know. Here's the thing, if he was fired on Friday then this is workplace violence. Does that mean the Obama administration will call it terror?

BOLLING: Oh, I get it. Opposite day?

GUTFELD: Yes, it will be like opposite day. I don't know. Nothing ever really changes.

Going back Eric's point about military bases not being armed, I mean, gun-

free zones don't do much of any good for anybody.

Video games, a lot of talk about these video games. I looked it up. 2012, you have $15 billion that's over double since 2002. You see a huge increase in use of video games. There's no correspondent rise in mass killing that fall in line.

So, that argument to me is not a valid one whatsoever. I think there is more of -- the killers have a fascination with reality and not with fantasy. They look and emulate the things that they see that will bring them immortality, attention and fame.

And we give that to them every time this happens.

BECKEL: You mean to say that we have -- I mean, maybe I'm missing something here. It seems to me the last 10 years has been a lot of this stuff going on. And prior to that, I don't remember as much as we've seen here. I mean, is that -- I mean, I'm not denying your statistics. But --

TANTAROS: It's a small fraction when you look at the numbers of actual crimes and shootings like in Chicago, for example. It's almost 2,000 incidents of shooting, 300 dead so far this year. This type of mass shooting makes up such a small fraction but it garners such a huge portion of media attention.

I'm really curious to know and I wonder if this will come out, how many people that were killed are gun owners and if they wished they could have had their firearm with them that day. I'm guessing there's probably a few that would have been able to protect themselves.

BOLLING: Also on video games, "Grand Theft Auto 5" came out last night at midnight. They're going to sell about $2 billion worth of that video game.

Who is the jackass who pointed the finger at video games? It's violent. Yes, it's violent. But so are movies, so is television, "Breaking Bad," "Walking Dead". These are -- we are bombarded -- music. We are bombarded with violence.

Why is it all of a sudden it's video games?

BECKEL: Where did you hear about being just a shotgun? I mean, how did he get a shotgun?

BOLLING: The FBI said it was a shot gun.

PERINO: That's the fact.

BECKEL: Just a shotgun to do all that damage?

BOLLING: No, with the shotgun, he took two handguns from security. So, he had two handguns and a shotgun that he --

BECKEL: I see.

PERINO: He overpowered security to get it.

BOLLING: But the point was, they're immediately they're going to blame an AR-15 because it looks like, you know, it's a rifle, it looks like an AR-

15. So, they immediately went to AR-15 with multiple bullet magazines and it was wrong. It was a false report. Of course, the left jumped on it.

PERINO: And we're going to have a chance to talk about that next, because you knew it was coming. Some lawmakers and gun control activists already are politicizing the event. We'll fill you in on it when we come back.


TANTAROS: After yesterday's shooting at the D.C. Navy Yard, it took no time at all for Democrats and other gun control activists to politicize the tragedy. California Senator Dianne Feinstein put out a statement hours later, calling on Congress to, quote, "stop shirking its responsibility and resume a thoughtful debate on gun violence in this country."

"The Fonz" Henry Winkler of "Happy Days" fame sarcastically tweeted, "Another shooting in Washington, D.C. Please America, do nothing to promote gun control because that's how we roll until we all shot each other."

So, Bob, do you think it was appropriate to do this on the same day that 13 people were gunned down?

BECKEL: Absolutely. Yes, I do, I did and I will continue to believe that, because here's a guy with clearly mental illness. It was documented. The Navy knew about it. And yet he was able to go and purchase a shotgun.

Now, what does that tell you?

TANTAROS: He listened to Joe Biden's advice. He said go out and buy a shotgun.

BECKEL: Yes. Well, that's -- I mean, the idea that in this country, you can be a fruitcake like that and go out and buy a gun and then go in and shoot up 13 people. If he wasn't able to buy that gun and maybe someone gave him the gun, I don't know.

TANTAROS: Don't you think there's a messaging problem a little bit for Biden, though, on that go out and buy a shotgun advice that he was giving during the gun control debate.

BECKEL: I don't -- I mean, I don't remember much about it. But I suppose you could say that, but I own a shotgun, but that's not the point. The point is --

BOLLING: You still have to have a background check, though, brother.

BECKEL: Well, do you think this guy had a background check?

BOLLING: If he brought it legally he did. There was nothing on his background check that said he had mental issues.

BECKEL: Then that means a background checks in the law need to be stronger.

BOLLING: No, background checks are good for finding felons that want to buy a gun. They'll stop that. That's easy because law enforcement shares information.

The problem is if someone is checked into a mental institution in New Jersey and goes and tries to buy a gun in control, they don't share that information and no one knows so that they can give him, if he doesn't have a criminal background, you can get a gun.

So, what needs to happen is you need to beef up that system. If people have mental illness, if there's a history of domestic violence, those types of things, they have to share. They don't do that.

BECKEL: Let's write it into the law.

BOLLING: But the right isn't complaining about that. The right isn't saying don't do that. You have to understand something -- you guys on the left want to point your finger at the right. The right is OK with that. That's fine.

BECKEL: Where were they then during the discussion on the bill that was --

BOLLING: The bill wasn't for that. The bill was for national gun registry. That's what the bill was for.

BECKEL: Oh, I see, now, you got a problem with the registry of gun, right?


PERINO: But that wasn't going to have mental health reporting and involuntary detention of these people at a mental hospital. Now, if that's where America decides that it wants to go, maybe that's appropriate.

But that wasn't what the discussion was on the bill. He did go through a background check.

But before -- let's say for example the shooting that he did through his ceiling to his neighbors, she says that she thought there was malice in it. The cops came. They did an investigation. Ultimately, they didn't press charges against him. So, there's not at record of it.

BECKEL: Clearly, there was a record and someone found out when they were investigating this guy, right?

PERINO: Later on.

BOLLING: But you have to be convicted of a felony or domestic violence or some sort of violence.

BECKEL: Why not then take -- insurance companies keep the records on everybody who uses insurance to go to hospitals or mental hospitals, whatever.


TANTAROS: Well, that is -- but there's -- you've got to be careful with that, though, as well because there's as lot of fear that insurance companies keeping mental health records, now, the government getting those records with Obamacare. If I'm sitting in a shrink's office, Greg, and I say something like I hate my job, I'm a conservative, my boss is really angering me. Well, let's right it down, sweetie. She doesn't --

BECKEL: You're OK with insurance companies having that?

TANTAROS: Making sure they can't get a gun it there's fear by putting mental health legislation.

BECKEL: Wait, wait, you're OK with insurance companies having that?

TANTAROS: I'd like to get Greg in here one second.

BECKEL: Sorry.

TANTAROS: Greg, just this week remember the Chick-fil-A shooter in Washington, D.C.?

GUTFELD: Yes, yes.

TANTAROS: He's going to be sentenced. It's interesting. You do not hear from the media or from the left any cries about guns or gun control when you have a liberal activist with a backpack trying to gun down, quote, "as many people as he could."

GUTFELD: Yes, if it doesn't fit the story line, it's not a story.

But here's -- I think the point that we were starting this discussion was about politicizing an event quickly after it happens. If you think you have a practical solution that actually solves a problem, you have every right to politicize it. You should say I know how to fix this. If there was a mass illness and you were a doctor, you knew what was causing that illness as a doctor, you have every right to say that.

The problem with gun control is that the sentiment is emotionally driven and not fact based. If you as a person believes in gun rights and owns a gun, your statistics, your cold, hard unfriendly facts actually are right but they aren't acceptable as an emotional response. You have to be emotional about this.

The facts -- most gun violence has declined, like you said earlier. Five hundred fifty-nine victims over 30 years. There have been 330,000 victims from 2000 to 2010 that are gun deaths not by this. Sixty-one percent are suicides.

This is not a big issue. But the facts are sober and real and nobody wants them because it's not emotional.

BECKEL: Well, here's the proposal. Do you have a problem if you have been in a mental institution and I try to buy a gun, that there's a list in mental institution?

BOLLING: That's all there. You cannot buy a gun if you are put into a mental -- a non-voluntary --


BOLLING: Right. But if you still can't get it. If you go and if you are put in a mental in institution in New Jersey and then you go and try to buy a gun in New Jersey, you can't buy a gun.

BECKEL: So, you go to Pennsylvania and buy a gun.

BOLLING: Information sharing that we need to work on.

BECKEL: Well, fine. There's a solution.

BOLLING: Can I just point something else though, Greg? The left wants to point fingers at guns -- 11,000 guns last year caused murders, 11,000 people died at the hands of gun that wasn't a suicide. Four hundred forty-

four thousand cigarettes. Car accidents accounted for about 40,000. Alcohol, 80,000.

But they blame the person in every single example with the exception of guns and now they want to blame the guns.

TANTAROS: I think the left and Democrats would have more credibility if they spoke up about gun violence in liberal areas like Chicago and started to talk about that or gun-free zones, for example. I mean, if you look at it, less than 0.1 of 1 percent of the people murdered in mass murders over the last 30 years, it's a small fraction.

But it's a huge deal and it's politicized. But, look, I'm guilty of it. I called for no more gun-free zones on military installments. So, I guess I could be blamed, too, yesterday for doing the same thing. I spoke out because that's what I believe.

BECKEL: You think everyone should have had a gun? If they had a gun from home, they should have brought it on the facility?

TANTAROS: Yes, I do, especially on military installments (ph), yes.

GUTFELD: There are statistics of somewhere between 300,000 and a million instances where guns are used to protect themselves. That's fact. If you use these hate facts, these ugly facts, people figure in poor taste after tragedy. However, they can use emotionally driven arguments that have no basis.

BECKEL: Well, here's a fact. The fact is the gun advocates say that 2 million people a year use guns to protect themselves. Now, that's just unmitigated bull!

GUTFELD: Well, you're going to have to talk to President Obama who commissioned that study last year.

BECKEL: This is the Florida one.

GUTFELD: No, well, there's a new one that President Obama commissioned after Sandy Hook that found up to a couple of million, perhaps, between 300,000 to about 2 million, people use guns and self-defenses purposes.

TANTAROS: And, guys, final thoughts. The mayor of Washington, D.C. is blaming this one on the sequester.

PERINO: Yes, grasping --

TANTAROS: Which is ridiculous.

PERINO: Grasping at straws. And also, the media -- the mainstream media did not come out of this shining like a star at all. The fact that a lot of people went to bed last night thinking the shooter used an AR-15 when there wasn't an AR-15 on the scene is despicable.

BOLLING: Dianne Feinstein, who used a gun to protect herself years ago was the first calling for it.

And Piers Morgan who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about perpetuated that.

BECKEL: You always want to say that guns don't kill people, people kill people.

BOLLING: That's right.

BECKEL: And I say people with guns kill people.

TANTAROS: Guess what? Us people need to get out of this segment. Or I don't know, the control room is going to go after me.

Coming up, ABC went out trying to stereotype Americans on their hidden camera show, but a U.S. soldier didn't give producer what they hoped for. Wait until you hear how the hero handled the setup.

And also, FOX News announces some changes to the prime time lineup. We'll tell you all about it when we come back.


GUTFELD: So, I just got ABC's TV series called "What Would You Do?" I know I'm late. It's where actors appear to be bullying bigots while hidden cameras tape them to see if bystanders will step in.

Scenarios include a dinner customer harasses a transgendered woman. A cashier bullies a Muslim woman. A homophobic waiter won't serve same-sex parents. A man drops a wine bottle in the store and blames the Latino clerk.

A Mormon family tries to convince a weeping underage bride to accept her life, and then, recently, a while male bigot in an American flag shirt racially abuses a Muslim convenience store clerk, but then he's confronted by a soldier who tells him to knock it off.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is a Muslim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We live in America. We can do anything you want (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aren't you fighting against these guys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at the moment. Right now, I'm ordering a sandwich.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think he should be working here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Buy your chips and move out.

NARRATOR: He doesn't follow orders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, I would like to order food just not from you, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out. Put the chips down and go buy them some place else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want me to leave this place?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a choice to shop anywhere, just like he has a choice to practice his religion anywhere. That's the reason I wear the uniform so anyone can live free in this country.


GUTFELD: So, do you see a trend? It's a tolerance exam created by professors who assume the worst in all of us -- I'm sorry, producers. I was looking at Bob. Producers.

It's candid camera for coastal elitist in which the villain is a one dimensional cartoon of flyover country, a dumb hick who hates different people. It should be called, are you as progressive as a fifth grader because that's the level of intelligence here.

But the show can't lose. If bystanders don't condemn the behavior, then the producers were right about our bigotry. But if a person like that soldier reacts heroically, it's met with refreshing surprise. Oh, look, the veteran we baited is not bigoted after all. Hooray!

The real truth since finding real bigots is really, really hard, the show must create fake ones to ensnare people. So, now, you can be racist just by minding you are own business in a store which should piss off real racists who actually make the effort.

I mean, this show, Andrea, is pretty entertaining. It's a great idea. It's not always like PC stuff. But it really is -- there is a driving kind of element in there to say look how rednecky America is.

TANTAROS: I don't like it. I don't like prank shows. I don't like setups. I don't like trying to trap people. I think that's exactly what they were doing.

Now, I can't get in the mind of these producers but I have to guess, if they're going to stage something like that, they've got to expect that the outcome could go one of two ways and I bet they were not expecting that to be the outcome.

GUTFELD: I think that's true. I think they assume a guy in fatigues would probably be intolerant. Good for them for showing it, Bob, right? What do you make of this show?

BECKEL: I'm listening to Andrea and I'm glad to hear you say that. It was the right and conservatives that were for that twerp and his girlfriend and did hidden camera on an ACORN, remember that?


BECKEL: And made sure everyone was against ACORN. Everybody, just like you got the professor thing, we caught you on that, didn't you?

GUTFELD: But ACORN was real. This is fake.


BECKEL: But the people who were doing it were not real. They were fake.

GUTFELD: Yes, but ACORN was real.

BECKEL: And he was still was a twerp.

GUTFELD: ACORN was real.


BOLLING: A couple of thoughts. I agree with Andrea. I hate those contrived setups. It just feels like you're entrapping people all the time. I don't think it's nay interesting TV. I like "Candid Camera" when it's funny and you kind of play with them. But these are --

BECKEL: Is that still on?

BOLLING: No, but they're get people to say mean things and bad things. No surprise, our military stood up and said the right thing. Very proud of that.

You have to agree to let that stuff air afterwards, right? I love to see. The only thing would be interesting is to see things that were so bad they wouldn't agree to it.

GUTFELD: You have to sign a release. Then it kills me, the racist, Dana, American flag on a shirt, is like they fabricated him by like, OK, let's see -- it was a composite stereotype, kind of like what I do with professors.

BECKEL: Yes, correct, in all universities.

PERINO: And all across America.

You have to wonder with these producers that went to college, is this really what they thought they were going to do? Didn't they want to create awesome television?

GUTFELD: Like "The Five"?

PERINO: Hey, this show is awesome.

I do wonder, you have reality TV, relatively inexpensive to produce. Then they have to make up scenarios now because reality TV is eating itself.

GUTFELD: I think it's really clever. Can we show one? Here's another instance where this would never happen in real life. It's a father trying to buy booze for his kid but the kid doesn't want the booze.

When does this happen? Look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The kids are going to have fun. You'll fit right in. A little vodka. We need vodka.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't need vodka, dad. I don't want to go overboard. Can we get coke?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grab some soda, too.

NARRATOR: This woman enters the store and immediately takes notice of father and son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's underage drinking. You cannot buy it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the kids are doing it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You'll be the one arrested. You can't sell it to him. You can't sell it to him. I'm not going to stay here.


GUTFELD: What a busy body. That would never happen. That would never happen in real life.

BOLLING: I can see where it certainly would not happen in my liquor store if I was there with my son. No, dad, get that one. I like that one over there.

BECKEL: There are people like Eric to get it for me.

TANTAROS: These producers of the show goes back to difference between being racist and being prejudice. I don't care. You show me one person that isn't prejudice in this country that doesn't prejudge. If it's late at night, if I'm in a car -- I always use the example I see someone walking behind me, I'm going to lock my doors. It doesn't make me a racist. Everybody prejudges.

GUTFELD: That was me --

TANTAROS: And those producers of that show. Well, if I see you coming, Greg, I'll unlock the doors. Get in.

BECKEL: Can we get out of here? Because we're supposed to get to tease, my segment is going to be 15 seconds.

GUTFELD: I would be happy to get out of this, Bob.

BECKEL: Thank you. Professor.

GUTFELD: What's more detrimental to your health? One author says there's no greater danger than inactivity. We'll discuss the war on football.

Yes, we have another war. War on Christmas is over.

BOLLING: Guess who is to blame?


BOLLING: Author Daniel Flynn has a message for all of the alarmist warning about the dangers of football. Quote, "We should encourage sports, not slobs." He argues that the drum beat on football violence has hurt youth participation in football, leading to a society of fatsos.

I mean, I guess I'm with him. This is another example of how the wussification of America will end up hurting us in the future.

Now, the obvious thing would be to go to Bob right now. But I don't want to. I want to go to Dana because she's our resident expert on football.

Dana, your thoughts on --

PERINO: Well, I do like exercise. I don't have children. I don't play football.

But I think the more exercise is probably better.

BOLLING: Better?

GUTFELD: Oh, you are taking quite a stance there, Dana. We're going to get a lot of letters. How dare you advocate exercise?

BOLLING: Your thoughts, my man?

GUTFELD: OK. Two things or maybe three. Sports -- the worst thing about sports is infusion of pop culture. I get a head injury when I watch the Super Bowl halftime show. That's more dangerous.

Number two, female cheerleaders, that's the most dangerous sport in America is female cheerleading, which is why I set up my own clinic in my apartment for all of the injuries.

TANTAROS: What about male cheerleaders? Are they welcome?

GUTFELD: They're welcome.

Third one, most popular sport in America is scamming. Americans try to get as much money from government.

BOLLING: We have a segment on that coming up.

Ands, you spoke to this author?

TANTAROS: I think he's right. I do think there's a war on football. I think football is uniquely American and I think if you look at the history of it, President Teddy Roosevelt loved football and thought it was an awesome pastime and great way to train our men and women.

And there's lot of similarities to the military. Think of the language they use, touching down, ground game, all the different language, throwing bombs down the field.

Also, you are protecting one another. These guys on the field take orders from a coach. They follow instructions. They're excellent leaders when they come out.

That's why Roosevelt thought it was so important that it was part of our culture that men were playing football and he really encouraged it. I think it's a great sport but this culture now, Eric, multiculturalism get away from football, get away from uniquely American and encouraging accomplishment.

BOLLING: I started a few companies, hired a lot of people. Across the board, the best hires are the ones who had a sports background or military background. As Andrea points out, you teach how to -- you get knocked down, you keep trying. You fight until the end. You play until after the whistle.

Your thoughts? The left wants to wussify America, though.

BECKEL: It's not a question of the left. This guy says, by the way, if you don't play football, you're going to become a fatso. There are a lot of sports you can play besides football. I played football for a lot of years as you know. And there are a lot of people I know who played with me in college who are hurt to this day, and have arthritis and a lot of problems.

And it is football players are getting bigger. They're getting stronger. Plays are more complex. For younger people, someone asked me if they had kids should they play football or should they play soccer? I'd say play soccer.



BOLLING: Don't listen, everybody. He was just kidding.

PERINO: Did you hire anyone with a speech team background?


PERINO: Because that would have been awesome.

BOLLING: No. A lot of athletes, though, good hires.

All right. Coming up, still to come on "The Five", the FOX News Channel has a big announcement. You're not going to want to miss it. Stay tuned.

Plus, today is an important day in our history. Can you guess why? The answer --

PERINO: This is the third year we've done this together.


BECKEL: It's not bad music, I guess.

All right. Now, to a subject that I know nothing about, of course, which is cheating. New research shows people who get away with cheating are being dishonest somehow are more likely to feel good about themselves than remorseful.

Now, Dana, being the prime cheater at this table, how do you feel about it?

PERINO: I guess if you run a red light or you know you're speeding and you pass a cop on the side of the road but don't get a ticket, you feel good. But I don't feel good. I feel --I just continue to be nervous.

BECKEL: Really?


BECKEL: When you pass a cop and he's not --

PERINO: I haven't driven in three years. So, that's not a good example.

BECKEL: I call that Nirvana myself.

Now, Greg, you didn't cheat at anything, right?

GUTFELD: No, I've always been very, very honest about my achievements.

There's two camps in cheating. There's the person that cheats and the person that pressures you to cheat with them. I always wondered what happened to the cheater.

PERINO: Eddie Haskell.

GUTFELD: Yes, there was always the Eddie Haskell.

I told the story many times, I'll tell it again. Barry Bonds used to sit next to me in Spanish class and used to kick my chair. I would have to move my test to the end so he could look at it because he was a jock and that didn't help him, Eric.


GUTFELD: He ended up cheating. And his head got giant.

BECKEL: What's the biggest cheating thing you ever did?

BOLLING: I don't cheat.

BECKEL: Come on!

BOLLING: I sat in a trading pit with 3,000 guys on a trading floor --

BECKEL: You never cheated?

BOLLING: These guys were stealing and robbing, I never did. Not once. I just hate it.

My father taught me --

BECKEL: How about at school? How about a girlfriend?

BOLLING: If someone gives a 20 and you only gave him a five, you give him the money back. No, no, I'm very honest that way, to a fault.

I will tell you the biggest cheating scandal in the history of mankind though.

BECKEL: What's that?

BOLLING: Climate-gate.

BECKEL: Oh, yes, sure.


BECKEL: Get out of here!

Ands, these people are being dishonest when they say, they didn't cheat. You certainly cheated somewhere, right?

TANTAROS: Well, I had a question during the commercial break, which I'm not sure is technically cheating. So, I'm really bad at math. So, in junior high -- I had math class in the afternoon. So I asked other students who had the tests earlier in the day, what was on the test? Is that cheating?

And Dana Perino, I like her answer.

Was that cheating, Dana?


BECKEL: That's the most you can you did?

PERINO: Resourceful.

TANTAROS: She said that was research.

BECKEL: Well, let me tell you. I'll own up to it. When I was in college, there was a philosophy professor or a psychology professor who gave the same test every year, multiple choice, A, B, C, D and E.

So a couple of my buddies broke into the place and got the exam. We all took the A, B, C, D, and put it on our pencils. Then we filled it out, exactly the way it was. It was first time he changed the test in 10 years and we all flunked.

But mostly I cheated on --

BOLLING: Dana has got a good story like that.


PERINO: When I was in third grade, the girl next to me asked if she could look on my spelling test during the spelling test. So I was nervous about letting her do it, but I said yes you can do it. And a few hours later, we were supposed to be in reading period and I got called up to teacher's desk and Mr. Brown said, Dana, why did you turn in two spelling tests?

But the -- what had happened was the girl had copied my entire paper including my name up at the top.

BECKEL: That's amazing.


BECKEL: I once did a math test and I cheated with the person next to me. I had two different math tests so I flunked that one too. Of course, I flunked just about everything.

OK, "One More Thing" is up next.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing."

And there was some exciting news from FOX today about the primetime lineup that people have been waiting to hear what it's going to be. Here we have it.

"ON THE RECORD WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" will be at 7:00. You've your old Bill O'Reilly at 8:00 p.m. Megyn Kelly will have "THE KELLY FILE" at 9:00 p.m. And Sean is going to 10:00 p.m. Still the same the show I guess the same show. Maybe even new and improved.

And guess what? "The Five" stays at 5:00. "CASHIN' IN" stays on Saturdays. And "RED EYE" is at 3:00 a.m.

GUTFELD: You can't move "The Five" anywhere else, because if you have THE FIVE on 6:00, people will be confused.

PERINO: Like when we did an 11:00 p.m. show.

GUTFELD: Why at 11:00?

TANTAROS: People were confused, like you, Dana, when you did the intro.

PERINO: I was completely confused and exhausted.

BOLLING: We'd have five people, all right?

GUTFELD: No, we have 11 people. If you move it to seven, you have seven people. Or else people get confused.

PERINO: Yes, you have to keep it even.

GUTFELD: We should have it at 1:00 a.m. and we should have one person.

PERINO: Oh, really?


TANTAROS: Bob, he's up at 1:00 a.m. anyway.

GUTFELD: How about 12:30, a dozen and a little person.

TANTAROS: Bob is not alone at 1:00, Greg. He's usually surrounded.

PERINO: All right. That went great.

OK. Eric, for the third anniversary of this day --

BOLLING: Right. I swear to God I had no idea, I had done this three times in a row. Today is Constitution Day. It's the 226th anniversary of the signing of the U.S. Constitution. So it's the third time, can I do this quickly? A little quiz.

"Washington Post" had a quiz today. Fantastic quiz. What does the Senate want to call the president? Was it: (a), king, (b), the president of the United States or, (c), his highness, the president of America and the protector of their liberties?



BOLLING: Correct. Very good.

GUTFELD: I thought it was a trick question.

BOLLING: No trick question, that President Obama wants to revert back to his highness -- no, I'm kidding about that part.

How about this one? How many of the 13 states need to ratify it to become the Constitution of the United States?


BOLLING: Anybody?


PERINO: I was terrible at math.


TANTAROS: I didn't get the answer before hand.


BECKEL: That's right.

PERINO: I love a quiz.

BOLLING: Great quiz in "The Washington Post," guys.

PERINO: OK. Greg? Your turn.

GUTFELD: I haven't done a banned phrase in almost two days -- eyeballs. People, websites, media, they say we're competing for eyeballs, just say viewers or readers because what about blind people who watch TV? I think this is the totally racist and bigoted and wrong -- and shut up!

PERINO: That they're really watching.

GUTFELD: I don't know if it's racist. But I figure --

BOLLING: It's racist against people with one eye.

GUTFELD: Yes, there you go. It's eyeist.

PERINO: Andrea is next.

TANTAROS: OK. Shea Telly (ph) has been waiting his entire life do this. Now, he's not your typical player, but watch.


TANTAROS: That is it. Cecelia High School. Shea Telly has muscular dystrophy. He's been on the football team. He shows up for every practice and the coach Terry Martin was the one who decided to put him in the game and he won it.

BECKEL: Good for him.

GUTFELD: Can you imagine if someone tackled him? Bob would have tackled him.


BECKEL: I ran into an old friend today who is here in the FOX Studios because he was promoting his new show. That's Mike Tyson. I beat him --

BOLLING: Is he on the right?

BECKEL: Yes. That's funny. Now --

GUTFELD: Both of you served time, so you have a lot in common.

BECKEL: That's true. A new six-part series called "Being Mike Tyson", and it's going to air on the FOX Broadcast Network starting Sunday night, 22nd of September, and then after that on FOX Sports 1.

What did you say?

BOLLING: Twenty hard.

BECKEL: Twenty hard?

TANTAROS: You can get a face tattoo.



BECKEL: Twenty hard-ist.

PERINO: "Special Report" is next.

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