MSNBC's Rachel Maddow criticized for President Trump's tax return 'scoop'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 15, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GUTFELD: I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and a peapod as her sleeping pod, Dana Perino -- "The Five."

Welcome back to the latest episode of --


GUTFELD: Yes, it was Rachel Maddow's Y2K. As we sit on the brink of a nuclear showdown with North Korea, this manic mouthpiece fixates on a 12-year-old tax return belonging to Trump. And boy, did she sell it like a timeshare in a Florida swamp. It was ShamWow meets "Shark Tank," without the charm and twice the smug:


RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: It's been a little bit of a hullabaloo around here this evening.


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC: People literally were tweeting at me shut up.


MADDOW: We have got significant breaking news tonight. Donald Trump's tax returns have surfaced, at least a portion of Donald Trump's past tax returns.

This is the first time we believe any federal tax returns for Donald Trump has been obtained by anyone, certainly by any news organization since he became a presidential candidate, let alone president.


GUTFELD: Oh, my God.

But rather than tell us anything up front, she tap dances like a barefoot drunk on hot sand. Maybe she will break the news to us now:


MADDOW: Tonight, we have this exclusive first look at their reporting at what they have obtained. In just a second, we are going to show you exactly what it is that we've got.

Whether or not you are a supporter of Donald Trump in general, whether or not you care what's in his tax returns, it ought to give you pause, that his explanation for why he couldn't release them.


GUTFELD: So the more she delayed, the more we sensed that maybe the tip of the iceberg is just the tip and there is no iceberg. But maybe she will tell us everything now:


MADDOW: Is he not as rich as he says he is, is he not as charitable as he says he is? Was he in fact under audit when he was using that as excuse to not release his tax returns? Was that worse than just a bad excuse? Was he really being audited? There are small reasons to be interested, right.

There will continue to be unrelenting pressure to find Donald Trump's tax returns, to expose Donald Trump's tax returns.

And I'm sure it's only the start, but it's a start. And our little piece of it, we just got it. We'll go through it next.


GUTFELD: "Next." What is wrong with her? A hybrid of Alex Jones and Alex Trebek: all trick, no treat. Let's give her one more chance:


MADDOW: Let me give you the basics: Aside from the numbers being large, these pages are straightforward. He paid looks like $38 million in taxes, took a big write-down of $103 million. More on that later. If you add up the lines for income, he made more than $150 million in that year.


GUTFELD: That's it? Talk about a big fat zero -- or six zeroes with a 38 in front of it. Trump paid $36 million in taxes at a tax rate higher than Obama, Comrade Bernie, and MSNBC. I salute you Maddow. The Pulitzer is in the mail. What's next? Will you be revealing Steve Bannon's disturbing ankle tattoo? I hear it's a dolphin.

So when America hears this news, what do you think they think? Outrage? Scandal? No, they think wow, Trump is rich, who knew?

So how did Rachel fall for this? Trump set it up by fueling the intrigue. Remember when the Roadrunner would paint a tunnel entrance on a rock formation, so the Coyote would slam into it? Trump did that to Rachel. He baited the trap for months, pretending that somewhere lurked the Ark of the Covenant, and now MSNBC and Rachel off that stone wall. Trump wins again by the left simply losing their minds and their ethics and their dignity and their self-control. It was awesome.

So, Eric, do you think she was right to milk this for all its worth?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I think she did what she does. She was milking it. She trolled everybody.


BOLLING: But it was hyped. I tuned right in at the top of the show. I was waiting and I was waiting. The problem is, she sold it as historically unprecedented, right. And then the aftermath compared to the Oscar's fail by Warren Beatty, compared Steve Harvey's Ms. Universe. It's been called tell-by-suicide.


BOLLING: But if you look at it this way, she made the story from Donald Trump's tax returns to Rachel Maddow's massive fail.


BOLLING: The question is, was it an exquisite set up by Donald Trump? When you take the tax return apart, it's great for him.


BOLLING: He paid the rate of 25 percent federally. That is not state, that's not local. That is a massive tax burden. Higher than Barack Obama paid, higher than Mitt Romney paid, higher than as you pointed out Bernie Sanders, higher than anyone. And you have to say, if it is, like you said, Trump painted of the tunnel on the front of a rock formation. It feels like it, it seems like it. I was waiting to see what the left would do, waiting to see with the rest of the MSNBC crowd would do. I got up early and watched my friend, Morning Joe.


BOLLING: He took the day off.


GUTFELD: Under his covers. Kimberly, I felt bad for Geraldo because he started trending immediately.


GUTFELD: Maybe Geraldo finally can lose it.


GUILFOYLE: People were riding that on Twitter. So I was live for the national massacre. I don't know what was going on. So they said, doing all rally with Dana. They said go out and do Tucker. So I sat in with an ear piece and listening to her, one ear piece listening.


GUILFOYLE: And Dana's texting back and forth. We were just like cracking up, and then waiting for it. I was like wow. This is a Fox News alert, Donald Trump is really rich.


GUILFOYLE: I mean, I was like he wins again. Then the guy who come on that was hey, hey, hey, I didn't do anything wrong. Somebody just stuck it in my box. I mean, how did this happen. So then he said well, maybe it was Donald Trump who did this.


GUILFOYLE: He said and he also may have leaked nude photos of his wife for the Post.


GUILFOYLE: So that was the big breaking news on Rachel's show. I was like wow, this is unbelievable to me.

GUTFELD: I loved it. Dana, she seemed a bit frazzled. And I'm wondering I as it was moving forward, she realized she didn't have anything.


DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yeah, I got that sense.


PERINO: I had never actually watched her show. I actually have never watched an entire 30 minutes. We got to 9:38 and Peter was like, we go.


PERINO: We got to get out of here, mom. She really knows how to bury the lead and you did get a sense maybe it's not going to be that big a deal.


PERINO: And here's the thing. If the tax returns have been mailed to somebody here, we would've done the story. It might have looked a lot different. Will we have hyped it, I don't know, maybe not as much. People in show business do this kind of thing.


GUTFELD: But you could sense at the beginning it was going bad.


GUTFELD: Because they overhyped it so much.


PERINO: You are an editor in your former life. As magazine editor, would you have led the number?

GUTFELD: Yes. And then I would have laughed about it. Juan, was this a good idea with a lead like that?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You know, I didn't see the show. I was watching the lead in tonight here in The Five, and I was starting to yawn. It was boring.

GUTFELD: It wasn't boring.


PERINO: It was like crazy conspiracy theories. I have never seen left conspiracy theories like that. At one point, I tweeted who is on first?


WILLIAMS: It was just like blah, blah, blah, blah, and there was no there- there. But I will say to my mind, I mean, the effect, if there is a genius to Donald Trump, the genius here would be that it distracts from everyone else that's really going on.


WILLIAMS: And even just saying to the tax issue, he still hasn't.


WILLIAMS: We're talking about 10-year-old taxes.


WILLIAMS: And just a portion released.

PERINO: Right.


WILLIAMS: He paid 25 percent. He played the ultimate minimum tax. That was the least he could pay.


WILLIAMS: I am saying this guy took such a big write-off. I think he claimed millions in losses. I can't remember exactly how much, $100 million.


WILLIAMS: And we know, the New York Times had revealed a little bit of another tax return and the 90s. In that one, he took 960.


BOLLING: You are reaching.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm not.


PERINO: It's all relative.

BOLLING: And it's all legal.


BOLLING: It's all legal.


GUTFELD: oh, my God. We have the sound on tape. Donald Trump as you know was going to be with Tucker Carlson tonight at 9 p.m. for I think it's a full hour. I'm pretty sure. Who knows? I don't want to over promote it.


BOLLING: It could be historically unprecedented.

GUTFELD: Exactly.


GUTFELD: He has Donald Trump's history, I believe. All right. So we have sound on tape of Donald Trump reacting to Rachel Maddow's so-called scoop.


DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I have no idea where they got it, but it's illegal. And you're not supposed to have it and it's not supposed to be leaked. And it's certainly not an embarrassing tax return at all, but it's an illegal thing. They've been doing it. They've done it before. And I think it's a disgrace.


GUTFELD: So he just comes out of this smelling like a rose.


WILLIAMS: I don't think he smells like a rose. I mean, the one thing that the left had to say about it, actually I think is substantive, because hey, he reacted right away. Apparently, the audit is not a problem, so why is he refusing to release his tax returns?

GUTFELD: Maybe he is trolling them? He has set him up.


GUTFELD: To the point that CNBC article was scathing about what Rachel Maddow did. He said you helped Donald Trump.

PERINO: What would you do if you were her tonight?


GUTFELD: I would watch Tucker.

PERINO: That's what I usually do, that's why I have never seen her show.


GUILFOYLE: You were watching a little bit, too, didn't you say?

BOLLING: she didn't show the first page. She didn't show it right away. She took you through the conspiracy theories.


BOLLING: So he bought a home, sold it. But the person he sold it to his Russian.


BOLLING: He was trying to pollute these strings that frankly had no substance.

PERINO: That is how I feel about conspiracies on the right.

WILLIAMS: Oh, please, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I hear something. It must be the wire in my head.

BOLLING: They don't add up. If you listen to everything she said.


GUILFOYLE: And Wilbur Ross.


BOLLING: It felt like someone had pulled her aside and said hey, by the way, these aren't really bad numbers. Between her getting the numbers and tweeting about it.


PERINO: I did have a little flashback. When I worked at the justice department as a spokesperson, I was assigned to the tax division as one of the divisions I had to answer press calls. And David Cay Johnston would call all the time, the guy is a reporter and knows every inch of the tax code.


GUTFELD: I wonder if SNL is going to spoof her, but she is sacred ground.
If they spoof Rachel Maddow, will it be in a loving way? Like the way they do with Hillary.


GUILFOYLE: But David Johnston admitted that he didn't do anything wrong. He paid what was legal, you know, amount at that time. He did the proper filing. It didn't appear to be any illegality. So therefore, maybe Donald Trump sent it to me.


WILLIAMS: The big story here would be why doesn't he release his tax returns so we can know about the Russian connection if it exists, if it doesn't exist? And the audit is not a problem. Come on, Donald Trump. Do it, baby.


BOLLING: David Cay Johnston also wrote a book last year, an anti-Trump book.




BOLLING: He had a motivation in doing it. And number two, all these people, even my friend, Mark Cuban, who says Trump is not a real billionaire, if you make 150 million bucks after taxes, after write-offs, in a year.


BOLLING: In a year, I'm guessing he's a real billionaire.

GUTFELD: Yeah. On that note, you can catch more of President Trump's interview with Tucker Carlson at 9:00 p.m. Eastern tonight.

Coming up, a packed day for President Trump hitting the road on a two-state tour. The highlights next.


BOLLING: We are just a couple hours away from another big Make America Great Again rally for President Donald Trump Donald Trump, this time in Nashville. But before heading to Tennessee, the president visited Michigan where he praised the workers of the United Auto Industry for being the backbone of the American labor force.


TRUMP: America will be respected again. And you, as workers, will be respected again. I ask you today to join me in daring to believe that this facility, this city and this nation will once again shine with industrial might.


TRUMP: I'm asking you to place your faith in the American worker and these great American companies. May God bless the American worker.


BOLLING: So guess who attended the Michigan event today? U.S. car company CEOs and also the unions. Trump has never- before-seen wave scene before to bring both groups of the table. The result, Juan, a better business environment for both, unions and CEOs together.


WILLIAMS: Right. So the companies bust in the workers from various plants around.

PERINO: That's fine.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. They want to show support to Donald Trump at a moment when he is president of the United States and has power, especially power over these fuel standards they hope to have declined. They set an agreement with President Obama, they have added jobs with the standards in place, but now they are thinking, hey, especially when it comes to trucks, we could do possibly better if we didn't have to make the changes. It would be cheaper.
So yeah, they were union people there.

BOLLING: Yeah. We heard things that I think both the CEOs and workers could sink their teeth into.

PERINO: They are united in terms of wanting to make sure that their companies are successful. I think it made a lot of sense. I do think the policy element is interesting, something that's, he's in his element there.
So they're loving it and that's great, but the policy development of trying to say let's step away from these Obama standards, it wasn't just from an environmental standpoint. It's a safety standpoint as well. So the car companies are saying the more you try to push us in this direction in increase miles per gallon standards, the physics just aren't there to uphold safety standards that we all want in our country as well. I think that actually didn't get as much attention as it should have.

BOLLING: KG, he is going to head to Nashville, Tennessee tonight. I think is going to talk healthcare.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Well, listen. This is what he needs to do. Nobody sells things better than Donald Trump, right. I mean, he was able to sell himself and connect with the movement that was powerful and it took him to the White House. Here, he is going to need you know to ramp it up to be able to get conservatives, to get on board, to get the votes that he needs. And he has got to use the people out there who put him in office to create a groundswell of support. I think it's a smart strategy. I also think it's a necessary strategy. And he's the best person to do that job. And also, I think he really shines in terms of being able to be out in the field. He is his own best field game.

WILLIAMS: You know, I think you've gone to Tennessee, Kimberly, because he's trying to demonstrate that he will put pressure on Republicans who don't back him on the healthcare deal.

PERINO: That is smart, though.

WILLIAMS: That's what I think.


GUTFELD: Why do these rallies matter? It is because Trump is showing that if the media, the entertainment industry and academia won't afford him the honeymoon that other presidents have had, he has to make his own honeymoon.
Obama never had to do this because he had a built-in honeymoon. It was called the media.


GUTFELD: He didn't have to please the American people. He had the press in his pocket. And the other good thing is you are seeing a transformation, where compared to this block, this is about fun. And A block was about fear. So Trump makes the opposition scream and panic. Meanwhile, the Republican Party for once is having fun. So one side is fun and the other side is fear.

BOLLING: Because, Juan, in this typically, typically a Republican president will go in there and he will be loved by the CEOs and hated by the United Auto workers. Then a Democrat will go in and be loved by the United Auto workers and disliked by the CEOs. Here's a guy who can go in there and be liked by both.

WILLIAMS: I do believe that President Obama went in there, and not only got GM and Chrysler out of bankruptcy. So he was loved by the CEOs. He was also loved by the workers.


WILLIAMS: I'm just telling you, this CEOs, he saved their hide.


BOLLING: How about the people who were behind the CEOs. The investors who got smoked, they got destroyed.

WILLIAMS: How were they got smoked?


WILLIAMS: In terms of the CEOs on the workers, they made out. The bigger problem here I think for Donald Trump are things like promising oh, yeah, we're going to build a pipeline, we're going to do it with U.S. Steel. Hold on. You don't have to use U.S. Steel. It's the same thing with the coal miners. Oh, yeah, we're going to go in there, we're going to return your jobs, coal workers. Meet Greg Gutfeld and automation, coal miners.

BOLLING: Did I miss the memo?


BOLLING: I think I missed that memo. Any kinds of thoughts?

PERINO: I will say that presidents that go out and try to campaign for their policies are making good choices. And interestingly, President Obama gave 58 speeches on Obamacare the year before it passed. He had to get out there as well. The media might have helped him, but he leaned on those members of Congress in order to get the votes.


PERINO: They had to do it in 20001 in order to get the Bush tax cuts. He tried in 2005 on Social Security. And the members weren't there. So President Trump has to keep these members all together, and the pressure on them I think is smart.

BOLLING: OK. We heard there. Next, the Democrats becoming a party of extremists? The alt-left, the deep state, that and more, details on the so- called resistance when we come right back.


GUILFOYLE: Are Democrats becoming a party of extremists?


GUTFELD: Well, according to an article in Politico, they just might be.
Quote, in the nearly two months since President Donald Trump was sworn in, a self-described resistance has emerged at mass marches, protests, and raucous town halls from coast-to-coast. Will the resistance become the left counterpart to the right wing tea party? The resistance is starting to force the Democratic Party toward extremes and away from long-held norms of bipartisan give-and-take. Need more convincing? Here are some examples of the hysteria from the left.


REP. MAXINE WATERS, (D-CA): I think that if we do the investigations that we will find the connections. And I do think that impeachment will be necessary.

SEN. CORY BOOKER, (D-NJ): . during a time of increased fear in our country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of Donald Trump?

BOOKER: There is something seriously wrong when mendacity has become the norm. There is something seriously wrong when law-abiding citizens are afraid to leave their home. There is something seriously wrong when hate crimes are surging.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA): He has created nothing except chaos.


GUILFOYLE: All right. What a hit parade that was. OK, if only that was recorded. OK. Greg, care to repeat what you just said?

GUTFELD: I was talking about a certain person that betrayed her friend.
Cory Booker betrayed Jeff Sessions when Jeff Sessions was up and actually tried to stop him after claiming he respected him. So I have no respect for Cory Booker.

PERINO: And I added that to what end, because he was going to get confirmed anyway.

BOLLING: And he was cosponsoring a bill.


GUILFOYLE: I added inexcusable.

GUTFELD: An extremist is someone who recasts violence as protests. That's what you're seeing right now. Somehow the same people who think words are harmful are now making an excuse for physical violence as what we've seen at colleges where a professor was sent to the hospital with a sprained neck. And this all starts with the antipathy towards civil society. Once your party becomes the party of anti-law enforcement and you embrace the politics of looting and rioting in New York City and Oakland, you elect Trump. Because Trump became the law and order president, so it's on you.
The more extreme you get, the more the Republicans win.

BOLLING: Can I just add, though, the -- you can keep that extremist group small if you don't give them any fuel.


BOLLING: And this Obamacare debate is unfortunately -- I'm sorry, Ryancare debate, is giving the...

GUILFOYLE: You just got off your talking points.

BOLLING: No, no, but here's the thing. So these town halls, right, they're organic? They're real. But they would die if they -- if the Republicans came with something that was better than Obamacare.

But what they're basically doing, the GOP, is giving the extremist left the same thing you gave the Tea Party, something to fight for. Right? That's what those town homes were four in 2009, 2010. And that's why the House flipped. Take that -- take that out. Get that fuel out there. Put a -- douse that fire with some good, real conservative health care.

GUTFELD: But they're going to protest more conservative.

BOLLING: I don't think they will. If it works, if it brings their prices down, you know, at some point, they're going to go, "Wow, I have a better insurance bill now than I did before. I'm not going to protest this." But right now, that's not the case.

GUILFOYLE: So Dana, what do you think? Is it the counterpoint to the Tea Party?

PERINO: Well, it depends on if they can channel something into policy rather than just the personal. So they can't stand the person who became president, and they haven't been able to rally around one specific policy.

So like, the Tea Party was really focused on Obamacare. And there's lots of other reasons for that group coming together, but that was their focus.
They weren't successful in denying its passage, but no Republican voted for it; and I think that was important.

But you also really see this in academia. And even the left is concerned.
So people -- the elder statesmen of the Democrats are concerned that they are just ruining their opportunity to have a seat at the policy debate, because they're so crazed with anger that they can't funnel it into something productive.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, when you see the people that have become sort of the face and the branding of the left, of the Democratic Party. You saw in that clip there Maxine Waters and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and Cory Booker. I mean, what -- does this give you cause for concern for your party?

WILLIAMS: No. I mean, those are good people. I like those people.

I mean, the problem -- the problem that exists now is so similar to, I think, what Republicans went through with the Tea Party in that, you know, if you ask John Boehner, if you ask Eric Cantor about the Tea Party initially, "Oh, yes, we can deal with it, you know. We like it. They're galvanizing opposition to Obama, opposition to Democrats. We won back the House; we won back the Senate." But pretty soon, "Oh, my gosh. They're overrunning the party's generals.

GUTFELD: But Juan -- but Juan, what -- they aren't beating people up; they aren't destroying property.

WILLIAMS: Now you're not...

GUTFELD: They aren't threatening -- threatening people's lives.

WILLIAMS: You don't remember...

GUTFELD: I remember everything about the Tea Party.

GUILFOYLE: He was obsessed.

GUTFELD: I was obsessed with it.

WILLIAMS: OK, well, because the charges were that they were, you know, standing (ph) on people...

GUTFELD: They didn't touch anybody. They didn't touch anybody.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. But I'm saying that...

GUTFELD: You can't find it.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm just...

GUILFOYLE: No, you're confusing with Occupy Wall Street.

WILLIAMS: That is what -- that is what the charge was against the Tea Party back then.

GUTFELD: But they couldn't -- they had...

WILLIAMS: That sign that said they were...

GUTFELD: They misreported it. Remember MSNBC.

WILLIAMS: You are just being defensive.

GUTFELD: No, no, I'm actually being honest. OK, bring the evidence tomorrow.

WILLIAMS: I'm not -- I'm just saying people say this. I don't -- if you can say Occupy Wall Street, you want to say -- you want to say Occupy Wall Street gave in to violence?

GUTFELD: Yes, those who assaulted people.

WILLIAMS: I'm talking about...

GUTFELD: Defecated in public. They were radicals.

GUILFOYLE: Destroyed bathrooms.

WILLIAMS: I'm saying right now, these people who were upset about Trump and who I think are creating a Tea Party-like mechanism, political mechanism on the left. And the question is, can they help Democrats actually win seats? Because that, whether you like the Tea Party of the right or not, the Tea Party of the right actually helped...

PERINO: That's true.

WILLIAMS: ... politically Republicans to win.

PERINO: President Obama lost big time in 2010.

GUTFELD: The Tea Party -- nobody in the Tea Party would tell women to sit home, to go home as a form of protest, a one-sided holiday. Nobody on the Tea Party would do that. That's extreme. Telling half of the population not to go to work and jeopardize their careers.

BOLLING: The Tea Party -- the Tea Party wouldn't have flipped the House if their -- if their sole mission was "We don't like Obama."

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: They had the fuel. They had the vehicle to do it with -- with Obamacare.

PERINO: And the left tried to paint them as being just against Obama.

BOLLING: Right, but we knew it was all about the policy and now you can't give the left wing -- what do you call it the coffee? The opposite of the Tea Party?


BOLLING: Don't give them the vehicle.

GUTFELD: The pee party, because all they do is pee.

BOLLING: Exactly.


BOLLING: Don't give them the vehicle.

WILLIAMS: Well, they have the vehicle now. It's too late.

GUILFOYLE: They've gone too far for the left. They'll crash.

GUTFELD: They'll crash the vehicle. They'll climb on top of it; they'll smash the windows.

WILLIAMS: You're just wishing.

GUILFOYLE: I'm about to crash this commercial break. Directly ahead, FBI Director James Comey meets with lawmakers about Russia's alleged interference with the election and the president's wiretap claims. Latest, next.


PERINO: New developments on President Trump's wiretapping allegations.
Leaders of the House Intelligence Committee say they have seen no evidence that President Obama ordered wiretaps on Trump Tower during the presidential campaign. The committee is investigating the wiretapping charge as part of its probe into Russia's alleged meddling in the election.


REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: We don't have any evidence that that took place. I don't think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER: Thus far, we have seen no basis for that whatsoever.

NUNES: President Obama wouldn't physically go over and wiretap Trump Tower.

So now you have to decide, as I mentioned to you last week, are you going to take the tweets literally? And if you are, then clearly, the president is wrong. But if you're not going to take the tweets literally and if there's a concern that the president has about other people, other surveillance activities looking at him or his associates, either appropriately or inappropriately, we want to find -- we want to find that out.


PERINO: But President Trump is sticking by his wiretapping claim.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But "wiretap" covers a lot of different things. I think you're going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks.


PERINO: Meanwhile, FBI Director James Comey will testify before the House Intelligence Committee on Monday. Also, Comey is reportedly expected to reveal whether there's a criminal investigation into potential Trump campaign ties to Russia, perhaps as early as today.

Greg, as soon as I heard the president say that we might hear more in two weeks, I thought, "Oh, no. That means that the media will chase it for another two weeks."

GUTFELD: By the way, you look great in white today.


GUTFELD: Remember, because you wore white yesterday, and I said you wore white, you were upset.

PERINO: No, no.

BOLLING: Oh, that's cool.

PERINO: That's actually not what...

GUTFELD: That's exactly what happened. You were -- you cried during the break. And it was embarrassing. Look...

PERINO: I wasn't crying, because my dry eyes were bugging me.

GUTFELD: See? She's crying about her eyes.

The left and right are on equal footing here. The left thinks Putin rigged the election, and the right thinks Obama bugged Trump. So have an investigation simultaneously on both, and have Judge Judy oversee it.

GUILFOYLE: That's a great idea.

PERINO: But does the right really believe that...

GUILFOYLE: "The People's Court."

PERINO: ... President Obama ordered wiretapping into Trump? Like, I don't know if the right really believes that.

BOLLING: So look, I've been taken to task for defending Donald Trump for a lot of things. I will tell you, I never took it that President Obama walked over to Trump Tower and wiretapped the Trump Tower. Nor did I take it that he demanded that the Trump Tower get wiretapped.

What I do think happened is that -- and we know, first of all, that Trump Tower was surveilled. To what extent, we don't know. We still need to find that out. Who was surveilled at Trump Tower? Allegedly General Flynn, maybe others, as well. We'll find out that, as well.

Let's find out why. It had to be ordered by somebody if it was done legally. Had to be from the FBI, CIA, Justice Department. And if they did, why did they choose to do that? Was it at the behest of the president? And I think that's where Donald Trump is going with it, and I think that's where he's getting in trouble, because he's named -- I'm sorry
-- Obama, rather than saying...

GUILFOYLE: He specified.

BOLLING: ... The Obama administration.

PERINO: Well, yes, precision is important if you're going to make an allegation like that.

And Kimberly...


PERINO: ... the White House also asked Congress to investigate. So then you put it into the prosecutor's lap, in this case the chief intelligence officer, to do an investigation. And so Devin Nunes comes up today and says, "I don't see any of it."

GUILFOYLE: Right. But he also said that communications from Americans, including Trump, could have been picked up from ongoing surveillance of foreigners. So perhaps there was -- and I was trying to describe this before, like last week -- more of an incidental collection in a larger net that was cast in terms of that area and might've been picked up if they were surveilling foreigners.

Now, isn't that convenient? I mean, it looks suspicious; it sounds suspicious. That's why there has to be an investigation here. But there has to be some clarity and some closure on this, because it's a very serious allegation. And you do want to know if perhaps something like this was going on, because it would be, you know, a huge problem.

BOLLING: You want to know who ordered it.

GUILFOYLE: Sure. That's the point.

BOLLING: You want to know who went to the FISA court to order it.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. What was the genesis of it?

PERINO: The president could find out if he were to ask them. Right, Juan?

WILLIAMS: He has the right, if he wants to reveal that there was a FISA order, he can do it.

BOLLING: If it wasn't, that's even more problematic.

WILLIAMS: But there's no evidence that anybody was being legally wiretapped, Eric. And so you guys -- I mean, it looks to me like this snowy day in New York. You guys are, like, on a skating rink, you know, trying to get your balance and make excuses and skating around.

GUILFOYLE: What do you mean?

WILLIAMS: Because you're all...

GUILFOYLE: It's pretty stable here.

WILLIAMS: ... trying to make excuses for the fact that the president of the United States made this outrageous allegation. And even Devin Nunes, head of House -- House Intelligence, who was on the Trump transition, is forced to come out today and say, "We don't see any evidence of this."

BOLLING: Was there surveillance on Trump Tower? Can we agree on that?

WILLIAMS: We don't know.

PERINO: Hopefully, we'll get clarity, because there will be that hearing on Monday. As well as Neil Gorsuch, the Supreme Court nominee. So it's...

GUTFELD: I forgot about him.

PERINO: ... a big Monday.

GUTFELD: I forgot about him.

GUILFOYLE: He's been shaking...

PERINO: The New York Times didn't forget about him. They wrote a piece about him today. But we're going to have more about that, of course.

Up next, though, former vice president Joe Biden says what many other Democrats are not willing to say about President Trump. His remarks when we return.


WILLIAMS: Is Joe Biden changing his tune on President Trump? You may recall during the campaign the then-vice president took shots at then- candidate Trump. And just a few weeks ago, Biden also warned the new president about taking on the media and criticizing judges.

But yesterday as a press conference at the University of Delaware, the former vice president was asked whether President Trump deserves the chance to govern.


That's exactly why you haven't seen the president and I on any of the shows. I mean, if I was able to charge, you guys would pay me a lot of money to come on the shows. Not a joke. That's why you haven't heard anything. From us about that. He deserves a chance. And in fairness to him, this is a man, in my view, who understandably, like all the press thought, didn't think he was going to win.


WILLIAMS: Kimberly, what do you think of that?

GUILFOYLE: I'd say, first of all, I really like Joe Biden. And I think here, he's just being honest and decent and saying give him a chance to govern. I think that, you know, he's acting, what, vice-presidential.
Right? I mean, he's being reasonable. And I think people should. They're so busy being hysterical that they're losing any kind of credibility in the arguments that they're making, because mass hysteria has erupted, what, 56- some days into this administration.

WILLIAMS: Well, Eric, he's not asking for him to go out to the schoolyard, which is what he was asking. You said he would be...

BOLLING: You know what Joe -- I agree with Kimberly. For a long time, we said Joe -- you know what Joe is? Joe Biden is the anti-Hillary Clinton.


BOLLING: He's real. She was completely fake. He would -- he would have done a much better job running for president.

GUILFOYLE: Big time.

BOLLING: There's proof right there.

GUILFOYLE: They should have ran him.

BOLLING: I love that comment. He's a great guy.

WILLIAMS: You guys would've gone after him as Uncle Joe.

GUILFOYLE: that is not true. Do you not remember what we said on this show?

BOLLING: We've always -- we've always been...

WILLIAMS: Let me hear -- let me hear from Dana. What do you think?

PERINO: Well, I think he's a gentleman, a public servant, and a patriot.

And also, President Obama is trying to do what he's seen President Bush do, which was to be quiet and to give the -- his successor a chance to settle in and will be there on the other end of the phone -- maybe not by wiretap
-- in case there's any advice needed.

But I also think that Joe Biden is one of the party elders who is concerned about that left fringe that is growing and that they are not going to be able to win elections if they continue down that road.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I think that's the key point on the Tea Party stuff.

So do you like Biden or...

GUTFELD: No, that was my point. The thing is, like he is -- he is a relic of the past, and that's why he probably didn't run. You know, because he's...


GUTFELD: Hillary was all about identity politics, cheering on victimization. I never really saw them do that. And what were the three things that catapulted Trump? Was patriotism, national security, civil behavior. Those are all bad words on the left. They're very anti-law enforcement. They think you have to be stupid to be proud of America. And he is the -- he's a relic when compared to that.

So now -- I've said this before. The Republicans went in the opposite direction. They chose a centrist and not an ideologue. The Democrats are facing the same choice. And I've said do they go and embrace a Jim Webb, or do they go real left and become Jim Jones?

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's the problem.

PERINO: They're going left.

GUILFOYLE: And they pushed Hillary because they wanted the first female president; and they could've had a strong run with Joe Biden. They blew it. And he also loves to do midnight swims.


GUILFOYLE: Well, it's widely reported.

WILLIAMS: It's Saint Joe here at FOX News. "One More Thing" up next.

GUTFELD: You love them when they lose.


GUTFELD: "OMT" -- Dana.

PERINO: All right. So we talked a lot about this winter storm...

GUTFELD: We did.

PERINO: ... that hit the East Coast. But I want to bring attention to the wildfires of Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. They've been raging all last week, destroying hundreds of thousands of acres in those three states. The ranchers are now returning home to survey the damage. There's a lot of it.
The governors have declared states of emergency and disaster in their own states. As they come back, listen to what some of these ranchers have found.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had less than 3 minutes. The wind was blowing probably 60 or more. I got in my pickup and was able to get out of there.
And just that quick, everything is engulfed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a war zone. The gentleman I delivered today, he lost about 35 cows and about 20 calves. And he lost all of his pasture, his fences.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty devastating to come home and find your home gone, or find your work gone.


PERINO: And all those people, so stoic in facing this very real problem.
So keep them in your thoughts and prayers.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely.


BOLLING: OK, so we heard President Trump today talking to the U.S. auto industry. Take a listen to this sound bite.


TRUMP: They explained that the previous administration promised you a so- called midterm review of the federal fuel efficiency standards. Just days before my inauguration, the previous administration cut short the promised midterm review in an 11th-hour executive action. Today I am announcing that we are going to cancel that executive action.


BOLLING: OK, here's why this matters, very quickly. It's called CAFE standards. Corporate Average Fuel Economy. President Obama signed it so that by the 2025, average miles per gallon for a U.S. vehicle had to exceed
50 miles per gallon, up towards 54 miles per gallon.

Heritage Corporation scored it, and they came back with this number: $186
billion per year to the American consumer. A hundred and eighty-six billion. That's why it matters to roll back that regulation.

GUTFELD: All right. K.G.

GUILFOYLE: Well explained.

OK, we've got a really cute baby alert.

GUTFELD: All right!

GUILFOYLE: No graphic or animation, however. OK. Check out this baby boy. He's so super cute, and he's seeing his military father clearly for the first time with a new pair of glasses. Look at that cutie-patootie.

So that's Captain Brandon Caldwell, and he is the United States Air Force guy, recently returned from a two-month deployment in Antarctica. And the little baby didn't have glasses when he left. His dad came back after two months, and now look at the baby, so happy because he can actually see his father for the first time. So very, very sweet. What a heartwarming moment. And thank him for his service, as well.

GUTFELD: Juanzo.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, we all know about big moments between, let's say, between Biden and Obama, but check this out. You know because everyone loves Biden-Obama memes. Well, apparently Joe did too.
Yesterday, it was revealed his favorite meme is one where the former V.P.
is expressing his love for Obama. The -- one of the most popular funny caption that's been invented says, "See? Doesn't this feel right?" "Joe, I'm not leaving my wife for you." And then Joe says, "You said we'd be together for..." And Obama says, "Eight years. I said eight years."

Gee whiz. Still waiting for Trump-Pence memes to emerge.

GUTFELD: Well, you know what? That was really entertaining, reading memes.

All right.



GUTFELD: I hate these people!


GUTFELD: Aside from people reading memes, you know who I hate? People in yoga pants not doing yoga. People wearing yoga pants at the airport; people wearing yoga pants when they're shopping, when they're drinking.

Yoga pants are for yoga.

And you know what I also don't like about yoga pants? The people who wear them are usually hysterical over the environment. Well, get this: you know what yoga pants, they're made primarily of microfibers, plastic, which actually harms the sea life. Little fishes died because of your yoga pants.


GUTFELD: So if you're into the environment, Miss Yoga Pants, take off your pants and wear some cotton and save the darn country, to save the world.

BOLLING: Dudes in yoga pants. Worst thing ever.

GUILFOYLE: What a weirdo. Most men don't complain about women in, like, fitted, nice -- you know?

GUTFELD: Well, because you're Kimberly Guilfoyle. The fact is -- the fact is, yoga pants, you're not -- when you go to the airport, dress like a human being in public. Wear pants. Wear a jacket. Wear a shirt. You're not going to the gym. Where some shoes and don't bring a giant pillow.

GUILFOYLE: And don't have a man bun.

GUTFELD: All right. That's it for us. They're yelling at me. Oh, man buns. I hate man buns! And memes.

"Special Report" is next. Don't miss Bret Baier's exclusive interview with Senator Chuck Schumer. Yes, we've been waiting for that.

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