Mike Pompeo: America has a responsibility to push back and protect itself from 'evil nations'

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Mike Pompeo: America has a responsibility to push back and protect itself from 'evil nations'

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo shares his Untold Story, says the experience of patrolling the East German border as a young lieutenant shaped his life.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," February 28, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Good luck back to the time zone. We'll see you soon, Bret. Great job.

All right, tonight, in moments, Newt Gingrich is here. He says while the country has been sucked into a blinding vortex of gossip and hostility, mostly toward the president, the world is undergoing the most dramatic change since World War II.

From the power struggle in Venezuela, protest in the streets of France, drama over Brexit, and a worldwide sex abuse scandal that hangs over one of the world's largest religions.

And in the Middle East, Israel's prime minister indicted ahead of a pivotal election. Saudi Arabia's crown prince cozying up to China. While nuclear powers, India and Pakistan are on the knife edge of war.

Perhaps, the biggest threat, China, as they push for military and economic world dominance. And now, they are beating the U.S. with the release of A.I. game-changing technology in 5G. My next guest says those are the real bombshells.

Moments ago, I spoke with Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House, Fox News contributor, and the host of the new podcast, Newt's World.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: Front and center tonight, is this question of North Korea, and a lot of that seems to obviously be linked to what the president is planning with regard to China.

And as you mentioned, they are pushing into a very dominant position in an important part of our relationship.

NEWT GINGRICH, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think the president correctly did not accept a bad deal. Just as Ronald Reagan walked away in Reykjavik in 1986 from a bad deal.

So, I think in that sense, he did the right thing. I suspect they're going to come back with much tougher sanctions. And I suspect they're also going to put more pressure on China.

I was encouraged with the president's toughness on this issue. But I also think, dealing with China, in the long run, is a thousand times more important than dealing with North Korea.

And we are only beginning the process of coming to grips with how big a challenge China is going to be.

MACCALLUM: Yes. So, you say -- you know, in discussions about the emergence of 5G which I think a lot of people don't really understand the full ramifications of. But you described it as the most important technological advancement for the world since the personal computer. And that we are essentially behind on it and China is way ahead. What does that mean for us?

GINGRICH: Well, the great danger is that the essence of 5G is a system that allows you to have dramatically faster speeds, and it allows you to control, for example, distance surgery, or self-driving cars, or farmer farming that's virtually automated.

So it's an enormous breakthrough in capabilities. The danger for us is that the Chinese, in particular, their dominant company, Huawei, have been methodically working this issue. We have frankly been nowhere.

President Trump understands it. He's talked about it. But the objective fact is that our bureaucracies are behind the curve. We just suffered a terrible week in Barcelona at the world of mobile phone conference which is an annual event. And Huawei, I would say today is very substantially ahead of us.

We can catch up and we can compete. But if we don't, what you end up with is China not only dominating the technology and the job creation and the innovation but all and only gathering up all that information and data.

I mean, if they put in Chinese cameras, for example, for facial recognition, I suspect we should assume that the Chinese will be gathering all that data and archiving it in China. So, this is a big, big issue.

MACCALLUM: Yes, and then you look at some of the hotspots that you mentioned. Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and part of what's complicating those equations is -- you know, warmer relationships or business partnerships that they have with China.

So, when you take a look, for example, at Saudi Arabia, and you look at the crown prince there, who you know, we've covered the Khashoggi story over the last several months, which is problematic to be sure. But he's also sort -- of you know, waving away his concerns about Chinese -- you know, keeping Muslims and concentration camps.

You know, sort of cozying up to China, how problematic is that?

GINGRICH: Well, I think there's a very grave danger that you're going to see an alliance of dictatorships against the free world.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

GINGRICH: You see this, as you pointed out with the crown prince, telling the Chinese that he doesn't mind if they have a million Muslims in concentration camps, he understands their problem. You have that in Venezuela where the Chinese have an estimated, $60 billion invested.

They're in many ways now the number one backer of the Venezuelan dictatorship even more than the Cubans. And I think you're going to find that the Chinese are very methodically going all over the planet being competitive virtually everywhere.

And that we do not today have the kind of strategic effort we're going to need, if we're, in fact, to remain capable of dealing with them. And so -- and so, a much bigger challenge than anybody has come to grips with.

MACCALLUM: So, with regard to that, you know, it's a question of human rights which America has always stood proudly in favor of broad human rights and press back on countries when they -- when they are in error in with regard to that. But you know, the question of Otto Warmbier came up in North Korea.

The president said, he didn't believe that Kim Jong-un was aware of what happened to him. And he said, I take -- I take his word for it. Then you've got, you know, pushback. Let's play what the president said about that first of all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: I don't believe he knew about it. Some really bad things happened to Otto. Some really, really bad things.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you --

TRUMP: But he tells me -- he tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you think about that, Newt?

GINGRICH: I'm very disappointed. I thought the president had, had a very solid, very stable summit until that moment. I really liked what -- Nikki Haley tweeted her. Then I think she's exactly right to take that position. I believe that the president should reconsider what he said. It is impossible for that event to have occurred without Kim Jong-un knowing about it. It was -- it was in the news media everywhere.

We were formally protesting at the level of their government. And I think, it's a -- I can't quite imagine why the president said, what he said. Does he know -- he knows it's not true. He knows it can't possibly be true.

And I think he was trying to be polite. But frankly, it never helps with a dictator to be pleasant to them when they lie to you. It's much better as Reagan would do with Gorbachev to take him head-on and make sure that they understand that you're not stupid and that you're not going to tolerate they're lying to you. And in this case, Kim Jong-un just flat-out lied to the president of the States.

MACCALLUM: Newt Gingrich, always good to talk to you, sir. Thank you for being here tonight.

GINGRICH: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Joining me now, retired four-star General Jack Keane. Fox News senior strategic analyst and chairman of the Institute for the Study of War. General Keane, good to see you.

I just want to start there because Newt Gingrich was very critical of the president's take on Otto Warmbier by the president in North -- into the North Korean leader. What did you think of that?

GEN. JACK KEANE (RET.), SENIOR STRATEGIC ANALYST: Well, I think the president reacts -- you know to the relationships he's establishing with a world leader. In particular, adversaries like Putin and -- you know, Kim Jong-un.

And forgets momentarily that he's dealing with pathological liars. And actually, thugs and killers. And you can never let yourself -- let your guard down in dealing with these people.

So, I agree with his -- Newt's sentiments as well as Nikki Haley. And that was -- that was a foul. That's just it.

MACCALLUM: In terms of the walk away, you know, walking away from the table on this deal, what is your take on that? Was that the wise thing to do with that moment?

And then, the second part of that question is, what does China think when they watch all this?

KEANE: Yes. I absolutely think it's a positive step forward. It's not a setback of any kind whatsoever. We've broken the pattern here. Kim Jong- un came in and executing the same playbook that his predecessor did dealing with previous presidents. That is give us a little something, relieve us of sanctions, and we'll promise you the world.

MACCALLUM: Right.

KEANE: That has always worked. They put that on a table again. And why wouldn't they? Because it always has worked. So, the president said, "No, I'm sorry. That's not the way it's going to work. I need you to commit to denuclearization, and I need to see it. And if you're not going to do that, I'm leaving."

And that's what he did. So, a good thing. And I hope that going forward now, a couple of things happen. One is the sanctions themselves, Russia and China are not in compliance with the three U.N. resolutions. Both of them are providing assistance to North Korea.

Russia has never complied right from the outset. For the life of me, I don't know why. We have satellite photos. Take them, show them, and expose them to the world. Put it in front of the U.N. Security Council.

China, delicate situation to be sure because we're also dealing with trade imbalance and tariffs and negotiations coming up in March. But we've got to call them out on him as well.

Let's even stiffen up these sanctions even more. Remember, the reason why Kim Jong-un came to Singapore and came to Vietnam is because of those sanctions. And obviously, it was the one thing he truly wanted the most, was relief from those. So, let's get back onto that.

The second thing is if we're going to meet again, let's make certain there's a structure in place before that. In fairness to the administration, they tried to meet with the North Korean envoys many times in the last eight months. And up until the last few weeks, our envoy Steve Biegun was not able to meet with them. That's got to stop or else, we're not heading towards another summit.

Let's put a structure a pathway forward for negotiations and let's put each other's cards on the table and make some progress. And if there's no progress made, then don't get the president involved.

MACCALLUM: And what about China? Because the president kept bringing up China when he -- in the aftermath of this. And he's planning at the end of March to meet with President Xi. Obviously, he's backed off the sanction increase that he promised or the trade tariff increase that he promised initially at the beginning of March. What does China think when they watch all this?

KEAN: I think it watching added, the Chinese leaders looking at it, I think it was like a gut punch, frankly, to them. Because they've got -- they've got these serious negotiations coming up and they clearly have a desired outcome here because of what's happening to their economy.

No one has ever stood up to them the way this president is standing up to them. And I think they thought, well, progress is going to be made, we'll make our compromise, and we'll get on with it. No, this president is not going to let go of it.

MACCALLUM: So, you just brought up something really interesting that the pressure that they are under economically, and as listening to some pieces over the weekend that we're talking about -- or over the last few days talking about potential uprisings in China, President Xi is very concerned about what's going on with his economy.

KEANE: Oh, they have tens of thousands of uprising in China all the time. They just did not publicize. And been years ago, it's no longer classified but it, it would -- they averaged somewhere between 40,000 and 50,000 a year.

They have -- Martha, they have aside from the public's Liberation Army, they have 700,000 troops that are organized just to control population. And they put them in regions where those soldiers are not from. Because they don't want another Tiananmen Square where they ask the division commander to clear the Square years ago and he refused.

Now, every single day, there's civil unrest someplace taking place in China, and they got it totally under wraps.

MACCALLUM: Amazing. So, we'll be watching what President Xi does and when they get -- they have this meeting. Whether or not he's in a position where he's going to have to negotiate and President Trump could have a win there. That up.

KEANE: I think we've got some leverage here.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Thank you, general. Always good to see you, sir.

KEANE: Yes, good talking to you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for coming here tonight. So Congressman Jim Jordan is here to break some news tonight on new legal concerns for Michael Cohen. That is a big story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OH: The first announced witness for the 116th Congress is the guy who is going to prison in two months for lying to Congress, but the Democrats don't care. They don't care. They just want to use you, Mr. Cohen. You're their patsy today. You wanted to work in the White House?

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER LAWYER OF DONALD TRUMP: No, sir.

JORDAN: You didn't brought till today. His remorse is non-existent. You just debated a member of Congress saying I really didn't do anything wrong with the false things that I'm guilty of and going to prison for.

COHEN: Mr. Jordan, that's not -- that's not what I said and you know that that's not what I said. Well, instead, shame on you Mr. Jordan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Ranking member of the House Oversight Committee Jim Jordan grilling Michael Cohen during that exclusive -- explosive I should say hearing on Capitol Hill. And today he is going a step further sending Attorney General William Barr an extensive 30-page letter that is calling on the Department of Justice to investigate Cohen for perjury.

Here now Republican Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio, the Ranking Member of the Oversight Committee. Sir, good to have you with us tonight. Explain to me exactly what you want the Department of Justice to investigate about what happened yesterday.

JORDAN: We think we have -- we think there are at least six occasions where in yesterday's testimony where Mr. Cohen said things that were not accurate. The biggest one, of course, is the fact that he denied that he ever want to work at the White House. He's on tape saying, if offered a job at the White House, he'd taken 100 percent.

MACCALLUM: What difference does that make if he's you know, if he's embarrassed about it and doesn't want to admit that he wanted a job?

JORDAN: You're not supposed to say things that are not true in front of a congressional committee particularly when you're the first announced witness of this Congress and in two months you're going to prison for lying to Congress and then you come in front of Congress and guess what you don't tell the truth, that is not supposed to be how it operates.

So that's the concern. There are other issues we spell out in the letter. The idea that he didn't register as a lobbyist when you have two companies you're representing, one from Kazakhstan, one from Korea, a whole host of things that we think are important.

Remember, when a witness is coming in and saying kind of things that Mr. Cohen is saying, any witness credibility is always an issue. And this is a guy who is going to prison in two months for four distinct federal crimes, one of which of course is as I said, lying to Congress and I did it again yesterday.

MACCALLUM: All right, here's Adam Schiff. He believes that he actually bolstered his credibility yesterday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIF.: Well, look there's no question that any witness coming before Congress who has a history where they have been dishonest with Congress comes in with a credibility problem. But at the same time, a lot of what he said today I think bolstered his credibility. When people want to make things up, they don't generally do it in a half fashion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you think about that?

JORDAN: He's delusional. I'm not Mr. Schiff. Well, not Mr. Schiff, but Mr. Cohen. He said that -- he said that -- he started the Trump campaign for president with some web site he filed. So I mean, come on, how do you trust anything he says when he is -- when he said things like that. Like the reason that Donald Trump ran for president because I formed a web site back in 2011.

And again, he doubled down on that in the course of his testimony yesterday just like he doubled down the fact that he never wanted to work in the White House.

MACCALLUM: Right. Do you think on those issues that you're bringing up that the Department of Justice is really going to pursue, that that they're going to you know move further in terms of accusations that he lied in front of Congress yesterday?

JORDAN: That that's a question for Bill Barr in the Justice Department. That's the Attorney General's call. All I know is there were so many inconsistencies. On one hand, Michael Cohen said that he was the president's personal attorney and yet he wasn't the president's personal attorney.

He wasn't on a retainer and yet he was getting reimbursed for something else, back and forth. He didn't want to work in the White House because he had his dream job, but he wanted to work in the White House. I don't know what to believe because it's tough to believe a guy who has this record of telling lies in the past and specifically to the United States Congress.

MACCALLUM: I want to replay one of his sound bites from yesterday saying that the president did not directly tell him to lie. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress. That's not how he operates. In conversations we had during the campaign, at the same time I was actively negotiating in Russia for him, he would look me in the eye and tell me there's no Russian business and then go on to lie to the American people. by saying the same thing. In his way he was telling me to lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So it's interesting looking at the coverage of that moment because you look in some places and it says you know, he didn't directly tell him to lie, end of story. Other takes on what happened yesterday say that he -- said he clearly did tell him to lie and then that was the way that he communicated with him.

JORDAN: You know why -- you know why you can -- you know why you can have both takes because Michael Cohen said things which again just goes to the point. Mr. Trump didn't direct me to lie but he told me to lie. Which one is it Michael Cohen? I didn't want to be his personal lawyer but that was my dream job. I didn't want to work in the White House but if I was offered a job in the White House I'd take it 100 percent.

I mean, you -- this is the point. This is why he's going to prison for lying to Congress. He comes in front of Congress and says he didn't lie but we have six different instances where he said something that was not accurate. So that's the whole point and that's what we're trying to get across. And that's why Mr. Meadows and I sent the letter to the Attorney General today.

MACCALLUM: What about the Democrats response to what happened yesterday and the push for impeachment? You know, do you think they're going to pursue that? When you look at polls, the American people seem to not be -- most -- the majority of American people seem to not be in favor for pursuing that.

Carolyn Maloney, a representative came out today and you know, said that she thought that the groundwork was there now.

JORDAN: Well, they're going to do it. It's a crazy plan that they have but they're going to do it. It is no accident that Tom Steyer was in New York last week organizing a town hall in Chairman Nadler's district and this week was in Baltimore organizing a town hall in chairman Cummings district.

They're -- Tom Steyer, mega-donor for the Democrats, they are going to do it. That's how radical they have become. So I think this was the step one and this is the best witness they had. The guy they brought in to start their whole plan to move on their crazy impeachment process was Michael Cohen. As I said a guy who was going to prison for lying to Congress when he was brought in front of Congress, yesterday he lied again.

MACCALLUM: I want to ask you about your colleague in Congress Matt Gaetz, Congressman Matt Gaetz. This was put out there today by one of the reporters, writers at The Atlantic, Edward-Isaac Devore who said that the controversial tweet that Matt Gaetz sent out where he talked about whether or not Michael Cohen should be very concerned that his wife and his father- in-law might find out about his girlfriends, he then retracted that.

Devore claims in this, President Trump called Matt Gaetz last night from Hanoi to talk to -- talk to Cohen testimony and the threats that her since rescinded Gaetz made about Cohen. I was happy to do it for you. You just keep killing it. Gaetz was heard telling him. Gaetz told him that he does not discuss his calls with the President of the United States.

Matt Gates has said that that is fake news. What do you think about all that? The original tweet from your colleague and then the suggestion that maybe the President had wanted him to send out that tweet?

JORDAN: I don't think there was anything to that. Matt Gates has apologized for the tweet. Matt Gaetz said it was fake news. I take Matt Gaetz at his word. He's a friend. He's an honest guy and I think he's a good member of Congress so I take him at his word. You'd have to ask him.

I have the same position that Matt does when I have conversation with the President of the United States, I don't talk about those personal conversations.

MACCALLUM: All right, we will have an exclusive tomorrow night with Congressman Matt Gaetzs on that topic. I'll bring him here so he can defend the comment and push back on that himself. Congressman Jordan --

JORDAN: I'm sure he'd be happy to do so.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Thank you very much. Good to see you tonight, Sir.

JORDAN: You bet. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next, we have a big update on this story. The Democratic mega-donor Ed Buck and the case of the first young man who was tragically found dead in his West Hollywood apartment. New developments tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, we have the whole country's attention. But we're going to have a third one and a fourth one of we don't stop this man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Democratic mega-donor Ed Buck is now facing now facing a wrongful death lawsuit tonight in the 2017 death of Gemmel Moore, the first man who was found dead in his West Hollywood home.

Moore's death was initially ruled an accidental overdose but in a bombshell new suit, his mother alleges that Buck forcibly injected her son with drugs. Trace Gallagher live with this brand-new update from our West Coast Newsroom tonight. Good evening, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, ANCHOR: Good evening, Martha. Not only is the lawsuit against Ed buck filled with graphic details, it also alleges that Buck has a "well-documented history of isolating black men for predatory sexual encounters."

The suit was filed by Latisha Nixon, the mother of 26-year-old Gemmel Moore who in 2017 was found dead inside Bucks apartment. Investigators found his naked body lying on a mattress. In the lawsuit, Miss Nixon alleges that Buck had previously solicited sex from her son and injected him with crystal meth. As evidence, she references Gemmel's journal where he wrote, quote, "I've become addicted to drugs and the worst one at that. Ed Buck is the one to thank. He gave me my first injection."

Going on to write, quote, "If it didn't hurt so bad, I'd kill myself, but I'll let Ed Buck do it for now."

After Gemmel Moore's death Ed Buck was considered a suspect but no charges were filed because police couldn't prove Buck furnish the drugs. Then last month, Timothy Dean, another black male was also found dead inside the Buck's Hollywood apartment.

Dean's family released a statement that reads in part, quote, "Ed Buck is heartless but he should know that our family will not rest until justice prevails."

And because of the Timothy Dean case investigators have now reopened the case of Gemmel Moore. LaTisha Nixon has also named Los Angeles County District Attorney Jackie Lacey as a codefendant accusing the D.A. of violating civil rights laws saying Ed Buck wasn't prosecuted because he was white and because he donates to prominent Democratic politicians.

This week during a protest outside the D.A.'s office, Nixon made a plea to L.A.'s 2020 voters. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LATISHA NIXON, GEMMEL MOORE'S MOTHER: I have to live with this for the rest of my life. Please, something has to be done. I'm asking the voters, because I live in Texas. I'm asking the voters to take that in account.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Ed Buck's attorney says his client is innocent in both deaths. The L.A. County sheriff says it is still investigating and the evidence has not yet gone to the D.A.'s office for review. Martha?

MACCALLUM: We'll see what they find. Trace, thank you.

So, the push towards eliminating private health insurance in America is now very real. Marc Thiessen is next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Affordable Care Act was a step but there are too many people in this country that do not have access to quality affordable health care. Period. And it's wrong. And the time for action is now.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL, D-WASH.: It is time to ensure that health care is a right and not a privilege guaranteed to every person in our country. It is time for Medicare for all.

(CROWD CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Today, Democrats cheering at sweeping new Medicare for all bill in the House with a whopping 100 plus cosponsors. The bill did not include a price tag when they rolled it out, it would create a single payer of government-run healthcare system including other care such as vision, dental, substance abuse, just to name a few.

It would repeal the ban on federally funded abortions, it would cover the cost of prescription drugs and it would eliminate co-pays, premiums and deductibles. It sounds fantastic, right?

Here is Marc Thiessen, an American Enterprise Institute scholar and Fox News contributor. I would imagine the price tag is fairly large but somehow that didn't come up today, Marc.

MARC THIESSEN, SCHOLAR, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: No, it didn't come up. And look, I mean, the fact is it was just a few years ago that President Barack Obama felt compared to tell the American people when he introduced Obamacare. If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan. Well, and it was a lie by the way for a lot of people but at least he felt compelled to say it.

Today Democrats came out and said, you can keep your health plan. In fact, not only can you not keep your health plan. We, our bill is going to make it unlawful for a private insurance company to offer any coverage to you that's cover -- that is the same as what's covered in this bill. So, the message from Democrat says you are going to have government healthcare whether you want it or not.

MACCALLUM: Yes, but I mean, how would that work, how would did they take away your employer plan?

THIESSEN: Well they say they are going to do it over two years, they are going to face it and pay employer coverage out. Simply you make employer coverage unlawful and everybody sins up for government healthcare.

MACCALLUM: I could just imagine the insurance company lobbyists are going to be very excited about that option.

THIESSEN: Absolutely. Well, you know, the roll out was so smooth with Obamacare, like do Obamacare on steroids it will be much easier this rime, right?

MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, I mean, it's interesting politically as well when you look back at the midterms. But first, I just want to pull up this Kaiser family poll.

THIESSEN: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Because as, when I was reading that introduction it sounds wonderful to be able to give everyone these things. So, when you say do you support Medicare for all, 56 percent say, yes. That sounds great. THIESSEN: yes.

MACCALLUM: But then when you say we're going to also eliminate private health insurance companies in order to pull everybody and pay for the whole thing --

THIESSEN: Yes.

MACCALLUM: -- then 58 percent they say no, no, no, I don't want that. Then if you require most Americans to pay more in taxes to cover it, 60 percent oppose it. So politically, how is this going to fly?

THIESSEN: And in that poll if you tell people that there are going to be the delays in tests and treatment, which has happened in every single payer system that's been tried in the world, 70 percent oppose it because basically, socialism sounds a lot better in theory than in practice. That's, you know, that's the kick from it.

And that's also, by the way, that poll is before you tell the American people that it's going to cost $32.5 trillion. I mean, that is such a large number that it's almost impossible to wrap your head around it. But just to put it in perspective, our entire national debt is $22 trillion.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

THIESSEN: So, this is $10 trillion more than the entire national debt that they want to spend on this plan.

MACCALLUM: So obviously, it's just an enormous, intangible amount of money for anyone to think about.

THIESSEN: Yes.

MACCALLUM: But when you look at the political side of THE STORY, Marc, and go back to the midterms, Republicans got punished for not coming up with an alternative to Obamacare.

THIESSEN: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And they lost. A lot of elections, a lot of people said their number one concern was healthcare, that they didn't like what was happening with healthcare. So, you know, I think it doesn't look great for Republicans to, you know, scream holy hell about this plan when they really couldn't come up with anything that would fix it.

THIESSEN: That is fair. However, also, the Democrats have taken the wrong lesson. I mean, remember when George W. Bush, my old boss came out of the 2004 election and said, I've got political capital. I'm going to privatize social security. And everybody said it, that's not what we voted for.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

THIESSEN: I don't think the American people voted for Medicare for all, I don't think they voted for socialized medicine. And the reality is when people start seeing the price tag of these things. And by the way, Medicare for all that's just the tip of the socialist iceberg.

I mean, Medicare for all is subsumed in the larger green new deal, which is going to cost something like a hundred trillion dollars if you add in all the free, the work guarantees, the retirement guarantees, and the free jobs for people who are, you know, can't be bothered to work, the price tag for this is impossible and it's not going to be paid for by the rich, it's going to be paid for by the middle class.

So, you know, if you want to have a big, huge tax cut, tax increase, have your like taxes go up to like 50 or 60 or 70 percent to cover this stuff, this is what -- this is what you'll buy for, a really bad government healthcare.

MACCALLUM: Marc, thank you.

THIESSEN: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Always good to see you.

So, moments ago, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee-Sanders tweeted about the success of President Trump's summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. Saying this, "President Obama refused to walk away from a bad deal with Iran. President Trump refuses to make the same mistake with North Korea or anybody else or Iran or North Korea or anybody," she writes.

"President Trump will always put the safety of the American people above politics."

That coming out just moments ago from the White House. And still ahead tonight, what would happen if a more centrist Democrat than what we have in the poll so far, say this gentleman, Joe Biden, the former vice president, gets into the race. What's the impact on these other candidates? There is news there, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: We just had a family meeting with all the grandkids, too. And there is a consensus that I should, they want -- they, the most important people in my life want me to run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that he is innocent after Israel's attorney general says that he will indict him on corruption charges in three separate cases. The bribery charges stem from two years of investigations into Netanyahu's relationship with an Israeli telecommunications tycoon.

He will also be charged with fraud and breach of trust and two other cases. This is just two months before Israel's highly anticipated election which happens on April 9. Netanyahu call the allegations part of a politically motivated witch hunt. And under Israeli law, he will not have to step down if the A.G. follows through with the indictment.

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BIDEN: We coddled dictators, chosen the word of dictators and thugs even over our own intelligence communities. The love affair, love letters with Kim Jong-un. Standing before the world and taking the word of Vladimir Putin over the entire intelligence community. Our national reputation is being tarnished.

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MACCALLUM: That's Joe Biden speaking in Nebraska just a little white ago amid mounting speculation about whether or not the former vice president is going to run in 2020. Tonight, there are reports that he is soliciting potential advisors and advice from social media executives for strategies on how to better appeal to younger voters.

Here now someone who could potentially face off against Joe Biden, former Maryland congressman and 2020 Democratic presidential candidate, John Delaney. Good to have you with us tonight, sir. Thank you very much for being here.

FMR. REP. JOHN DELANEY, D-MD: Great to here.

MACCALLUM: What do you think about the fact that he is seeking advice from social media about how to run younger, I guess is one way to say it, because there are lots of younger folks in the race?

DELANEY: Well, you know, listen, I don't know what Vice President Biden is actually thinking about in terms of the race and whether he's going to run, so I don't really have an opinion of what he's doing with his campaign. I like a lot of people are big fans of the vice president.

I'm focused on my campaign. I think the voters are looking for the candidate who will best bring our country together and actually start solving the problems. And I think young voters are looking for that.

I was just on Clemson yesterday speaking to a group of young voters, and when you listen to what young voters are really looking for, they're looking for solutions. They've grown up in a world that is been very different than previous generations. They've seen a lot of gun violence. They see how technology has changed, they're worried about climate change and what they're really looking for is not someone who's going to try to spin something to them, but someone who's actually going to start solving some of these problems.

This, to me, is very much solutions-oriented generation, and I think what they're looking for is something very different than what they've seen from our political system over the last several decades.

MACCALLUM: So, I'm wondering about this question. Just because it came up today. Are they interested in nationalizing the legalization of pot because that Cory Booker introduced a bill today that would legalize marijuana nationwide? And the cosponsors included all the Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, and Kristen Gillibrand all on board with that. Are you on board with that?

DELANEY: Yes, I do think young people are interested in certainly decriminalizing marijuana. And so many states have made it legal at least within state laws and there's a big movement going on in this country. And I do think the federal government should get out of the way and allow states to do what they want to do with respect to marijuana.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: You're not -- so you're not concerned about the impact on society of legalizing pot?

DELANEY: Well, look, again, study after study has indicated that marijuana is actually less addictive than alcohol, right? So, of course, I'm --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But there's also many studies that show that most people who end up with opioid addiction problems started with pot.

DELANEY: Look, again, I think our approach to marijuana historically has failed. Right? And I think if we do take the next step and legalize marijuana, we should regulate it, we should make sure young people aren't getting it. We should make sure there's proper labeling. We should make sure there are resources in the public health system, right?

So, I'm very mindful of that as everyone should be, right? But I this we also have to recognize that across this country there's growing adoption for some form of legalization whether it be for medical uses or certainly for to decriminalize it --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, it's definitely the trend. I just wonder if it's going to turn --

(CROSSTALK)

DELANEY: That's truly the trend. And that's what the American people are looking for.

MACCALLUM: -- to be a good idea. You know, it's like gambling all across America. It hasn't always been so great for states.

(CROSSTALK)

DELANEY: But what we have to do is we also have to regulate it, right? Because right now we all know that it's going on, it's going on in the shadows. There's a lot of crime, a lot of people get imprisoned for a long period of time with possession even though they haven't committed violent crime.

We all know what's happening right now isn't working, so I think, yes. I think young people are interested in that. I think they are interested in a lot of issues. I mean, what the younger generation in many ways if you think about it, they grew up at a time when technology has allowed them to go around things they don't like.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes, so true. I got go to.

DELANEY: And I think they're looking at the political system right now and they see a lot of things they don't like --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: All right.

DELANEY: -- and they want solutions.

MACCALLUM: We will continue the conversation. John Delaney, thank you. Good to see you tonight.

DELANEY: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So up next, the untold story of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

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MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: I could see that evil and that shape my life. I see that here as secretary of state. I understand that there are people who intent to un-good and those who are truly aimed at destruction.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POMPEO: Unfortunately, we didn't get it all the way. We didn't get to something that ultimately made sense for the United States of America.

We are certainly closer today than we were 36 hours ago, and we were closer than we were a month or two before that. So, real progress was made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo today on the progress with North Korea despite the abrupt end to the summit.

Pompeo was sworn in as the 70th secretary of state back in April of last year after he served also as the head of the CIA in this administration. He recently sat down with me to talk about his journey from first in his class at West Point to our nation's top diplomat. This is his untold story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POMPEO: When I was a very lieutenant, I would have been 22, or maybe 23 years old. I conducted my first patrol along the Eastern German border. That was my mission. I was in a Cavalry unit and I had my Cavalry platoon. I remember going out and seeing the border. I had prepared but when you saw, you saw what it looked like on the other side it was the East Germany and a little bit of Czechoslovakia both under the control of the Soviet empire. You could see evil.

You could literally see the freedom that was being denied to the people on that side of the border. You could see that these fences and dogs and towers and they would fly Mi-24 Hind helicopters along the border.

You could see they were design to destroy the liberty of their people. They weren't aimed at stopping us from attacking. They were aimed at denying the freedom to the people of East Germany and Czechoslovakia. I could see that evil. And that shaped my life.

I see that here as secretary of state. I understand that there are people who are intent to un-good and those who are truly aimed at destruction and evil and corruption. We have to call it out when we see it. And America has a responsibility to protect itself by pushing back against those evil nations and those evil leaders who intent to do real harm to the world.

MACCALLUM: So fast forward to today, who are the most evil actors out there today who have those kinds of visions and designs for their people.

POMPEO: So, you see it most clearly in the Islamic Republic of Iran, that is they are exporting in a way that few other nations are, they're trying to deliver that revolutionary Islamic zeal not only inside of their own country but now exporting it to Lebanon, into Syria, into Iraq, and into Yemen that's true evil. When it's not about to put pressure on your own people and to deny them their freedom and he want to go out and export that and do that to others outside of your own nation, that's true evil.

MACCALLUM: How important do you think your own military background is to the work that you do in understanding the sacrifices that are made by our people in uniform when they are called to be on the ground overseas.

POMPEO: Martha, I'm always reminded as America's most senior diplomat of the return of four great Americans who were killed in Syria. I'm always reminded that when we have an incident like that it was a diplomatic failure that we didn't do our tasks sufficiently well.

If we're good, if our team is out everywhere trying to solve these problems through political resolution and making deals with other countries and sharing American values in a way that will reduce conflict. If we can do that, boy, we'll have to put a lot fewer of America's young men and women in harm's way.

I'm very mindful that I remember my days. I was never in combat. I served in Germany and Fort Carson, Colorado but I have lots of colleagues who fought in lots of America's wars. And I'm very mindful of what they go through, what their families go through and it always impresses on to me the enormous responsibility we have at the State Department to make sure that we put fewer Americans at risk.

MACCALLUM: Secretary Pompeo, thank you very much for your time today. Good to see you.

POMPEO: Thank you, Martha. It's great to see you as well. Thank you, ma'am.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, sir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: My thanks to Secretary Pompeo for sharing his story with us.

Don't forget to subscribe to the Untold Story podcast at foxnewspodcast.com. Full interview with Secretary Pompeo, you can see the whole thing, it's going to be released on Monday morning.

That is our “Story” on this Thursday night, but “The Story” goes on. So, we will be back here tomorrow. Good night from New York. "Tucker Carlson" is up next.

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