'Megyn Kelly Presents'

This is a rush transcript from "Megyn Kelly Presents," May 27, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE":  Good evening.  I'm Megyn Kelly.  Welcome to my first prime time network special.  Here is what you're in for.






KELLY:  It's been a long nine months.


KELLY:  This is the first you and I have ever discussed what happened.  It's on.

You call women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.

I thought it was a fair question.

TRUMP:  I thought it was unfair.

You know it's not a cocktail party.  I want to talk about the tweeting.

TRUMP:  You would be amazed at the ones I don't re-tweet.

KELLY:  Bimbo?

TRUMP:  Did I say that?

KELLY:  Many times.

TRUMP:  Oh, okay.

KELLY:  And from rocky childhood to rocky horror, transgender star Laverne Cox is telling her story.

Did you ever worry that your mom didn't love you?

LAVERNE COX, ACTRESS AND PRODUCER:  That's exactly what I worried about.

KELLY:  Also, it's been nearly two decades since O.J.'s first defense lawyer, Robert Shapiro, has spoken.

Moments after the verdict, O.J. Simpson leaned and whispered something in your ear.  What did he say?  You believe that the killer has never faced trial.

And why can't Michael Douglas ever catch a break with the tabloids?

Well, I was thinking when I heard you had three months to live and you were sitting for this interview for me that maybe I was on your bucket list.


I'm honored.

Tick tock.


KELLY:  Let's just dive right in.  It's been over nine months since the first Republican presidential debate, and an electric exchange between yours truly and Donald Trump.  What happened between us then and after would make headlines around the globe.  For those nine long months, he and I did not speak.  Nor did I ever respond to his attacks.  Tonight for the first time I'll ask him about that and about his seemingly unstoppable rise to the top of the Republican ticket, and nothing is off limits.


KELLY (voice-over):  America has never seen anything like the political juggernaut called Donald Trump.  A businessman and reality TV star with no political experience burst onto the scene and electrified voters with big threats --

TRUMP:  We're going to knock the hell out of ISIS.

KELLY:  And big promises.

TRUMP:  We are going to win in every aspect of our lives.

KELLY:  While explaining the art of the deal --

TRUMP:  We're going to make great trade deals.

KELLY:  He perfected the art of the insult.

TRUMP:  It's Rubio!

KELLY:  Against rivals.

TRUMP:  Little Marco, little Marco.  Lying Ted, lying Ted.

KELLY:  Detractors.

TRUMP:  He's a war hero because he was captured.  I like people who weren't captured.

KELLY:  And the press.

TRUMP:  I would never kill them but I do hate them.

KELLY:  Including yours truly, beginning with the very first Republican debate.  Mr. Trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don't use a politician's filter.  You call women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.  Your twitter account --

TRUMP:  Only Rosie O'Donnell.

KELLY:  Mr. Trump did not like the question at all.

For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O'Donnell.

TRUMP:  Yes, I'm sure.

KELLY:  Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president.

TRUMP:  What I say is what I say and honestly Megyn if you don't like it, I'm sorry.  I have been very nice to you although I could probably maybe not be based on the way you have treated me but I wouldn't do that.

KELLY:  And he sent out a tweet that night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Wow!  @MegynKelly really bombed tonight.

KELLY:  And a re-tweet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  FOX News gives low marks to bimbo Megyn Kelly.

KELLY:  Then he made this remark.

TRUMP:  She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions and you know you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

KELLY:  And he explained it this way.

TRUMP:  I was going to say nose and or ears.  Because that's a very common statement.  Blood flowing out of somebody's nose.  It's a statement showing anger.

KELLY:  That set off a firestorm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  This is a candidate who's really had a history of some misogynistic statements.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We've seen Donald Trump do this over and over again.

KELLY:  The pundits said his attacks were political suicide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  More fallout from the latest Republican debate.  I don't know how he thinks he's going to win an election.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  This unfavorability with women is --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  This weekend surely signals the end of Trump's campaign.

KELLY:  The pundits were wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  NBC News/Survey Monkey poll shows Trump with 23 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  A new poll number show that Donald Trump is surging.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The more Trump speaks, the more he spikes.

KELLY:  It didn't matter what he said or how he said it.

TRUMP:  Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.  When Mexico sends it people, they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, their rapists.

KELLY:  Voters were angry and they liked that he was angry too.  In January he skipped the next Fox News debate.

TRUMP:  Megyn Kelly is really biased against me.  Do you really think she can be fair at a debate?

KELLY:  Which set-off a new torrent of tweets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Eighty thousand tweets directed towards Megyn Kelly.  Broke it down to see what the most popular words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Crazy Megyn Kelly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Crazy, overrated.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Bimbo Megyn Kelly.


KELLY:  Days later he lost the Iowa caucuses.  But Trump went on to win and win some more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Another big win for Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  A huge win for Donald Trump.

KELLY:  And then a new debate.

TRUMP:  Nice to be with you, Megyn.

KELLY:  Great to have you here.

TRUMP:  You're looking well.  You're looking well.

KELLY:  And so are you.

Followed by more fallout.  And a call to boycott "The Kelly File."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Can't watch crazy Megyn anymore.

KELLY:  Finally in April, a meeting at Trump Tower.  The meeting was at my request and Mr. Trump was gracious enough to agree to it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Donald Trump and his arch nemesis Megyn Kelly are making peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The sign of a truth this morning between Trump --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Their feud apparently diffused.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You met with Megyn Kelly today.  How did that go?

KELLY:  Seventeen candidates down and Trump is the last man standing.  The presumptive Republican nominee.

Let's begin.

Thank you for sitting down with me.

TRUMP:  Thank you very much.  My honor.

KELLY:  It's been a long nine months.

TRUMP:  It has been a long time, I agree.

KELLY:  I want to ask you about the beginning of your campaign.  There had to be a moment on stage at a campaign rally or one night after a win where it occurred to you I could actually be the president.  When was that?

TRUMP:  Well, I think the debates were really a big thing, and not to bring up an unpleasant debate, but even that first debate was pretty amazing and 24 million people watching, a record on cable television, and I think that meant something.  I think that first debate meant something because I felt very, very comfortable with the subject and I felt very comfortable with the people I was competing against.

KELLY:  Let's talk a little bit about litigation because you have threatened to sue many people in the course of the campaign, but, of course, if you wind up president, you're not going to  be able to do that either.  Can you go four years without threatening to sue anybody?

TRUMP:  What China has done to us -- maybe you -- you know, do you have methods of suing countries --

KELLY:  It's going to be a busy law firm.

TRUMP:  No, no, it's going to be busy, but it's a little different, and it's also a tactic for me.  It's a business for me, and I have been successful, and I've, you know, used litigation, and sometimes I use it maybe when I shouldn't and sometimes I don't.

KELLY:  Have you made any mistakes in this campaign?  You had said publicly you thought the re-tweet about Heidi Cruz was a mistake.  Let me just --

TRUMP:  Well, I said, I could have done without it to be exact.  I could have done without it.

KELLY:  You said a mistake.  Are you walking that back?

TRUMP:  No, no.  I'm not walking it back but I actually didn't say it that way.  I said, I could have done without it.  I mean --


KELLY:  You shouldn't have done that, right?

TRUMP:  I wish I didn't do it.  Although, you know, I guess you could say she's fair game because she's very much involved with the campaign.

KELLY:  But that tweet was about her looks.

TRUMP:  You know what, I have millions of followers @realDonaldTrump.  I have millions of followers.  I have millions of Facebook --

KELLY:  I'm familiar.

TRUMP:  Yes.  You are.  The thing that gets me in trouble is re-tweets. The re-tweeter is really more of a killer than the tweets.   The tweets I seem to do pretty well with.

KELLY:  So that is one, the Heidi Cruz thing, let me just give you a list of a couple --

TRUMP:  Sure.

KELLY: -- and tell me if you have any regrets on it.  The comment about John McCain, you prefer people who were not captured.  The comment about Carly Fiorina's face.  But do you regret any of those comments?

TRUMP:  Yes, I guess so, but you have to go forward.  You make a mistake, you have to go forward.  And, you know, you can correct a mistake, but to look back and say, "Gee whiz I wish I didn't this or that," I don't think that is good, and I don't think in a certain way I don't even think that is healthy.

KELLY:  I want to talk a little bit about your family.  Your older brother, Fred Jr., was an alcoholic and died at a relatively young age.  When I say his name, what does that bring up for you?

TRUMP:  Well, he was great.  He was the most handsome person.  He was a really smart guy, really, really smart guy.  He had everything.  But at a certain age he started drinking a little more, a little more, and ultimately it was a big problem, and he'd say don't  ever, ever drink.  And I'll tell what you, I never -- I have never had a glass of alcohol --

KELLY:  Never?

TRUMP:  I have other problems, okay?  But --

KELLY:  What are they?  Get specific.

TRUMP:  I don't want to talk to you about that.  That I can't talk about. That would be too good.

KELLY:  You've been divorced twice.

TRUMP:  Yes.

KELLY:  Did you learn something about relationships, about love, about yourself?

TRUMP:  Well, you have to put more into it.  I put so much into my business that I didn't put enough into the relationship, and I see that.  And I have learned that.  I mean, I have learned that.  Sometimes there's nothing you can do about that because that's the way you are.  I mean, if somebody told you that you have to ease up, you can only work half the number of hours that you're working, I don't know if you'd be able to do that.

KELLY:  I'd give it a try.

TRUMP:  But even if they'd say you'd have a better relationship with your husband, I hear it's just great, but you know, I mean, I don't know that you'd be able to do that.

KELLY:  Has anyone ever hurt you emotionally?

TRUMP:  Well, I think the big thing would be maybe the death of my brother. That was, you know, the hardest thing for me to take.  It was very tough because, you know, that's natural and he saw a certain potential and he would say, don't ever have a drink.  Now, I don't carry that far with people.  I never had a drink.  But, you know, people can have a drink or they can do it socially, but, you know, that can lead --

KELLY:  You tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like you're trying to get out of bounds on the emotional question to the subject of alcoholism which we discussed.  Has it happened that somebody has done something to you, you know, not a death in the family, but has done something to you to wound you?

TRUMP:  Well, you know, I can say this.  It would be something I could certainly think about and, you know, come back with an answer --

KELLY:  No, it's okay.  I mean --

TRUMP:  But I will say this, when I'm wounded, I go after people hard, okay?  And I try and unwound myself.

KELLY:  Most kids between the ages of six and 16 have been bullied at some point in their lives.  Were you ever bullied?

TRUMP:  No, I wasn't.  But I have seen bullying, and bullying doesn't have to just be as a child.  I mean, I know people are bullied when they're 55 years old.

KELLY:  It can happen when you're 45.

TRUMP:  It happens, right?  But you've got to get over it, fight back, do whatever you have to do.

KELLY:  Let me ask you about that.  Because most American parents try to raise their kids to not bully, to not name call, to not tease, not taunt. How can they effectively bring that message when the front-runner for the Republican nomination does all of those things?

TRUMP:  Well, I do it, really -- you know, I've been saying during this whole campaign, that I'm a counter-puncher.  You understand that.  I'm responding.  Now, I then respond times, maybe, 10.  I don't know.  I mean, I respond pretty strongly.  But in just about all cases, I've been responding to what they did to me.  So it's not a one-way street.

KELLY:  Let's talk about us.

TRUMP:  Okay.

KELLY:  Ask you a tough question about women.  Bimbo?

TRUMP:  Over your life, Megyn, you have been called a lot worse.

KELLY:  Now, if you could go back and wave a magic wand and have been born with a female body, would you do that?




KELLY:  Let's talk about us.

TRUMP:  Okay.

KELLY:  We were always friendly.

TRUMP:  Right.  Good relationship.

KELLY:  Right?  And then came the August 6, 2015 debate and I asked you a tough question about women using only the words that you had used.  I thought it was a fair question.  Why didn't you?

TRUMP:  I thought it was unfair.  First of all, I didn't think it was really a question.  I thought it was more of a statement.  That's the first question that I have ever been asked during a debate and I have never debated before.  I mean, my whole life is a debate but I never actually debated before and I'm saying to myself, man, what a question.  And then of course you have Bret doing his thing.  So, I'm saying to myself, I have two hours of this?  I don't really blame you because you're doing your thing, but from my standpoint I don't have to like it.  
KELLY:  Afterwards you said that you didn't feel that the moderators had been nice.  But do you think it's the journalist's role to be nice to presidential candidates at a debate?

TRUMP:  Fair.  I don't care if they're nice.

KELLY:  You used the word nice.

TRUMP:  Well, okay, no, I don't think so.  I mean, I might have said they weren't nice but that doesn't mean they have to be nice.

KELLY:  Uh-hm.  You know, it's not a cocktail party.

TRUMP:  I mean, in a certain way what you did might have been a favor.  Because I felt so good about having gotten through -- I said if I can get through this debate with those questions, you can get through anything.

KELLY:  You seem to stay angry for months.  Was that real or was that strategy?

TRUMP:  Well, I'm a real person.  I don't say, oh, gee, I'm angry tonight but tomorrow you're my best friend.  See, I do have a theory -- and this could happen again with us.  I mean, it could be even doing this particular interview.  I have great respect for you that you were able to call me and say, let's get together and let's talk.  To me I would not have done that. I don't say that as, you know, a positive.  I think it's a negative for me, and you walk into Trump Tower.  We didn't have like on a neutral site or over at FOX or something.  That would be a whole different thing and I wouldn't have done it.

KELLY:  I think the doormen are still recovering.

TRUMP:  I think the whole building is recovering.  People are going like, this can't be possible.  Right?

KELLY:  And this is the first you and I have ever discussed what happened between us over the past nine months because you and I did not talk about that in the meeting.

TRUMP:  No, we didn't discuss it.  We didn't discuss it.

KELLY:  So, when you look back on the past nine months from that first debate to now, any regrets?

TRUMP:  Absolutely I have regrets.  I don't think I would have discussed what the regrets are but absolutely.  I could have done certain things differently.  I could have maybe used different language in a couple of instances, but overall I have to be very happy with the outcome.  And I think if I didn't conduct myself in the way I have done it, I don't think I would have been successful actually.  If I were soft, if I were, you know, presidential, okay, presidential.  In a way it's a bad word because there's nothing wrong with being presidential, but if I would not have fought back the way I fought back, I don't think I would have been successful.

KELLY:  You're no longer just Donald Trump, businessman or Donald Trump host of "Celebrity Apprentice."  Now you're steps away from the presidency. Have you given any thought in this position to the power that your messaging has on the lives of the people you target and on the millions of people who take their cue from you?

TRUMP:  I have.  I have.  And I see suffering.  I mean, I see tremendous suffering and I understand.  I have a very big heart.  A lot of people don't understand that, but people that know me do.  And we have to take care of our country, and I do feel America first.  I mean, America has been fourth and fifth and ninth.  I mean --

KELLY:  But you know what I'm saying.  When Donald Trump targets somebody and says this person is bad, that person is bad, it creates a firestorm in those people's lives and many of these people are so-called civilians who haven't put themselves out there as public figures.

TRUMP:  But it's in response to something they did --

KELLY:  But you are so powerful.  You are so powerful now.

TRUMP:  I don't view myself as that.  I mean, I view myself as a person that like everybody else is fighting for survival.  That's all I view myself as and I really view myself now as somewhat of a messenger.  You know, this is a massive thing that's going on.  These are millions and millions of people that have been disenfranchised from this country.  I was in front of a group yesterday, at least 25,000 people.  The place was going crazy, and I said, I'm like the messenger.

KELLY:  It's true but they're listening to you, and they're taking their cue from you.  So that's the question is whether now so close to the Oval Office, whether you will take that responsibility seriously and change your tone to try to be more unifying and less  divisive.

TRUMP:  I do take it very seriously, and I understand what's going on, and when I see the fervor, when I see 25,000 people that have seats and not one person during an hour speech will sit down, I say sit down everybody, sit down, and they don't sit down, I mean, that's a great compliment but I do understand the power of the message.  There's no question about that.

KELLY:  I want to talk a minute about the tweeting.

TRUMP:  Okay.

KELLY:  Set the scene for me.  Because I know where I was when I was on the receiving end on a lot of those tweets.  But I've always wondered where you were.  I picture a crushed velvet smoking jacket.  You know -- lounge, slippers.

TRUMP:  Maybe not as fancy as that.  Maybe not as fancy as that.  Maybe probably a lot less.

KELLY:  You said it's you if it's past 7:00 in the evening.

TRUMP:  This weekend, I picked up 114,000 people.

KELLY:  Do you pick up your iPhone and actually tweet yourself?

TRUMP:  Yes.  Usually about 7:00 or 8:00 at night I'll do it myself.  But during the day when I'm in the office, I have a number of people that I just call out a tweet to.  It's always my right.

KELLY:  You call out exclamation point?

TRUMP:  I do.  I say exclamation point.  You know me well.  You know me well.  No, I'll say exclamation point.

KELLY:  I'm familiar.

TRUMP:  So, they'll type is out for me real fast, bring it in.  I'll be in a meeting.  Put an exclamation point and I'll send it out.  So, I don't do the physical.  Now after like 7:00 or 8:00 if I'm home, I'll do it myself, and I have fans, you probably learned, and I didn't do it for this reason but when you and I were having our little difficulty, you probably had some pretty nasty tweets sent your way.  I don't want to say but I've heard that.  I don't want that to happen, but my fans they really love -- we have an unbelievable bond.

KELLY:  You re-tweet some of those.  Not just the fans.

TRUMP:  But not the more nasty ones.  You would be amazed at the ones I don't re-tweet.

KELLY:  Bimbo?

TRUMP:  Well, that was a re-tweet, yes.  Did I say that?

KELLY:  Many times.

TRUMP:  Oh, okay.  Excuse me.

KELLY:  What do you think with, I mean --

TRUMP:  Not the most horrible thing.  You know we're getting political. Over your life, Megyn, you've been called a lot worse, wouldn't you say? You know, you have had a life that's not been that easy, and --

KELLY:  Not about me.  It's not about me.  It's about the messaging.

TRUMP:  No, no.

KELLY:  Young girls and to other women.

TRUMP:  It's a certain amount of fighting back.  You know, it's a modern day form of fighting back.  I mean, it really is, but --

KELLY:  Are you going to stop that as president?

TRUMP:  Well, I'm going to stop it about you now because I think I like our relationship right now, so I'm certainly not going to --

KELLY:  Now you have my cellphone number.  That is actually much more efficient.

TRUMP:  You gave me your cellphone number.

KELLY:  And you promised you would not use it for evil.

TRUMP:  No.  I promise.  You will never see that.  You will never see that.

KELLY:  If you don't become president, will this all have been for nothing? Or will you have changed America?

TRUMP:  So I got a call from a great writer who said to me, congratulations.  I said congratulations on what?  He said what you have done has never been done before.  I said what have I done?  And he talked about different things.  I said, well, unless I win, I can't do the changes.  I can't make America great again.  I can't lower taxes and make our military strong and get along with other nations, frankly, that we don't get along with right now but do better with them so, you know, they're not ripping us off like they all are.  But I said unless I win, I can't do that.

He said, no, no you are wrong, what you have done has never been done before and it will go down in history.  And I appreciate -- and I don't want to really talk about it because in case it doesn't work out, I'd rather have that narrative but I'm going to say this, if I don't go all the way and if I don't win, I will consider it to be a total and complete waste of time, energy, and money.

KELLY:  Mr. Trump, thank you.

TRUMP:  Thank you very much.

KELLY:  Just fascinating.

TRUMP:  Thank you very much.

KELLY:  I appreciate it.

TRUMP:  Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY:  When you told your mother that you identified as female, what was her reaction?

COX:  The first thing my mother said was you have such big hands and feet.

KELLY:  You would think if she's going to object to a body part, she would have chosen something other than hands and feet.  And later in the show, more Donald Trump with a stunning admission.

I knew it!



KELLY:  Next month "Orange is the New Black" premieres season four and in the fall there will be a splashy new TV version of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show."  Both of these productions have something in common, they featured the first transgender actress ever to be on the brink of superstardom.  Laverne Cox has a unique American success story, one that transcends transgender.


KELLY:  When you're a 6'2" African-American trans-woman, you get called a lot of things.  Glamorous, sexy, beautiful.

Do you ever get tired of being called beautiful?

COX:  No.  It's lovely to hear.  I didn't grow up feeling beautiful, so it's kind of nice.

KELLY:  But what made her the first transgender TV star is her breakout role as Sofia on "Orange is the New Black."

COX:  I'm here because I realized you might be my only friend.

KELLY:  One of the models for her character is CeCe McDonald, a transgender woman who was in prison for manslaughter after defending herself from an attack.  Laverne is the executive producer of an upcoming documentary about McDonald called free Cece.  And she may be on her way to becoming a trans icon.  She's taking on the role made famous by Tim Curry in a remake of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show."

So, you grew up in Mobile, Alabama, with a single mother and an identical twin brother.

COX:  Yes.

KELLY:  I read that you said you did not see a difference.  You didn't understand that there was a difference between a boy and a girl.

COX:  No.

KELLY:  Which is so fascinating.

COX:  Everyone was telling me that I was a boy but I knew that I was a girl.  I identified with things that were -- I just felt like I was a girl and my third grade teacher, Ms. Ridgeway, called my mother on the phone saying, your son is going to end up in New Orleans in a dress if we don't get him in therapy right away.

KELLY:  What did the therapy consist of?

COX:  The whole idea was we had to fix me.  That I would - that there was something wrong with me.  They talked to my mother about injecting me with testosterone to make me more masculine (ph).  Luckily for me a red flag and for my mother something didn't seem quite right to her about injecting her third grader with testosterone to make them more masculine until we did continue with the therapy.

KELLY:  And when you were 11, you took a bottle of pills.

COX:  Yes.

KELLY:  Why?

COX: I didn't think you'd be going there. Forty-one percent of all transgender people report having attempted suicide and when I was 11, I did as well. What had happened is that as puberty started I also -- in addition to being very feminine, I realized I was attracted to boys and I learned in church that this is a sin and then my grandmother had also passed away when I was in sixth grade.

She was an amazing woman. She's a domestic worker. She worked in the homes of white folks in the segregated south, cooking and cleaning. And she was this dignified woman. So, I thought that she was up in heaven looking down on me and I imagined she was extremely disappointed that I was having these thoughts about boys. And the idea of disappointing her made me not want to live and so, I went to the medicine cabinet and took a bottle of pills and swallowed them and I went to sleep hoping not to wake up.

KELLY: Did you ever worry that your mom didn't love you?

COX: That's exactly what -- that's exactly what I worried about. Dang it. Yeah. That was -- that's the only thing I've ever wanted, is for my mother to love me. And when I was being sent to a therapist, it felt as if that she might not.

KELLY: So, when you told your mother that you identified as female, what was her reaction?

COX: I called my mom and told her I'm a girl and this has been going on with me my whole life. The first thing my mother said was that you have such big hands and feet.

KELLY: You would think that she was going to object to a body part she would have chosen something other than the hands and the feet.

COX: I think her whole thing was that you'll never pull this off. I menan that was to me is what I understood her implication was. You'll never pull this off. And it was hard for many years and we had a lot of difficult discussions and arguments, but we're in a really great place now where she accepts me as her daughter.


COX: This is my mother.



KELLY: You have an identical twin brother.

COX: Yes.

KELLY: Tell us about that relationship.

COX: He's just -- he's my everything. He's my brother.


KELLY: Her not so identical anymore, twin brother M Lamar plays her character Sofia pre-transition on "Orange is The New Black."


COX: What's wonderful about having a twin brother is that he's been there since the womb and so he's like you're the same person you've always been. The shell has changed but you've always been this person.

KELLY: Let's talk about romance.

COX: Oh, really? You want to talk about your romantic life, Megyn?

KELLY: Let's talk about you. Are you dating anyone?

COX: I don't really talk about who I'm dating, Megyn.

KELLY: Oh, come on. Give us a little something.

COX: Dating as a transwoman is really hard. It's been -- I feel really lucky right now at this stage in my life that things are good on that front.

KELLY: What kind of men do you like? What kind of man do you date?


COX: A guy who is kind of creative. I found this better for me. Looks are important. I like -- i love waking up in the morning and seeing a beautiful man next to me. That's like one of the best things in the world.

KELLY: Amen.

COX: So I enjoy, you know, looking over and seeing a beautiful man.

KELLY: Now, if you could go back and wave a magic wand and have been born with a female body, would you do that?

COX: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. And the reason for that is because I think I now believe that being transgender is beautiful.

KELLY: Do you feel that making the transition solved a lot your problems or created new ones?

COX: Being a black transgender woman in America is really hard. It's been really hard for me. But for me living a lie was much worse. I need to be in my truth. And I've been very, very lucky that I've been able to live my dreams and I believe everyone should have the right to live their dreams. This is America. We're supposed to all have that right.


KELLY: To actually put your hands in the glove that may have taken two lives, I can't imagine.

ROBERT SHAPIRO, O.J. SIMPSON DEFENSE LAWYER: As you say it now, it is chilling.

KELLY: You've actually gone through a lot in recent years. What would you say was your darkest moment?



KELLY: Welcome back. When O.J. Simpson was accused of murder back in 1994, I was in law school. And like the rest of America, I watched the trial gavel to gavel. Well, the smash success of the FX miniseries "The People Versus O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story" has proven once again that everyone still likes to talk about the trial of the century. Well, almost everyone. For nearly 20 years Robert Shapiro, O.J. Simpson's first defense attorney, has remained silent until now.

Thank you very much for being here. Why does the story still bring out so much passion?

SHAPIRO: I think because, number one, Simpson himself, great all-American hero, one of the greatest football players who ever lived, first time DNA was ever used in a trial of any significance, very interesting lawyers on both sides and a horrible, devastating loss to two families.

KELLY: Uh-huh.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Simpson is a wanted murder suspect, two counts of murder.

KELLY: When O.J. Simpson was first arrested for killing his wife, Nicole, and her friend Ron Goldman, pretty much everyone thought he would be convicted. Not attorney Robert Shapiro. Shapiro was so famous, he's portrayed by John Travolta in the FX series "The People Versus O.J. Simpson."

Shapiro now says that a lot of what you think you know about the trial is wrong. First, Shapiro says he outmaneuvered Marcia Clark by making her believe he wasn't ready.

SHAPIRO: The judge asked, "Mr. Shapiro, what's your position?" Your honor, we're ready for trial. Looks at Marcia Clark and says, "Call your first witness" and you could see the blood come out of her face. And from that day on I knew there would be no conviction.


MARCIA CLARK, PROSECUTOR: These are not efficient murders. These are murders that are really slaughters.


KELLY: Second, Shapiro believes the prosecution did not understand the evidence. Did the dream team win that case or did the prosecution lose it?

SHAPIRO: I think it's a combination of both. The prosecution wedded themselves to one knife, one killer theory. I think it's pretty clear that it was within reasonable medical probability that more than one knife was used. There's a strong possibility that more than one person was involved.

KELLY: And you believe the killer of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman has never faced trial.

SHAPIRO: I think there's a strong possibility that that's the case.


JOHNNY COCHRAN, O.J. SIMPSON DEFENSE LAWYER: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.


KELLY: And finally, Shapiro had a plan for that bloody glove.

SHAPIRO: I tried the glove on. It was a little bit wide on my palm and a little bit long on my fingers. O.J. Simpson has enormous hands and I knew that that glove would not fit him.

KELLY: Really?

SHAPIRO: It wouldn't even be close.

KELLY: Did you feel in that moment when you put your hand in the glove that you were trying on the glove of the person who murdered these two people?

SHAPIRO: As you say it now, it is chilling, but I was looking for one thing and one thing only, the size of that glove.

KELLY: So when O.J. Simpson was asked to try on that glove in that courtroom, did you realize it was a critical mistake by the prosecution?

SHAPIRO: Here's what I told O.J. Simpson. I want you to walk as close to the jury as you can. Hold up your hand like you're holding the Olympic torch and pull and tug on that glove because it will not fit. And clearly it didn't.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, in the above entitled action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson not guilty of the crime of murder.


KELLY: Moments after the verdict, O.J. Simpson leaned over and whispered something in your ear. What did he say?

SHAPIRO: You had told me this would be the result from the beginning. You were right.

KELLY: How did you feel when you saw O.J. laughing and posing for pictures shortly after the verdict?

SHAPIRO: I thought it was inappropriate. Two people were dead, and there should still be some respect certainly for your ex-wife.

KELLY: Now, when he was arrested for armed robbery and kidnapping years later, did he call you?


KELLY: Why not? You know?

SHAPIRO: Up to him. I wouldn't have taken the case in any event.


SHAPIRO: He still owed me money from the first one.

KELLY: Really? After the verdict Shapiro went on to create the popular website Legal Zoom. Fast food like legal advice, quick and affordable.


SHAPIRO: We put the law on your side.


KELLY: But in 2005, Shapiro's life went into a tailspin when his 24-year- old son Brent died from a drug overdose. When you went to the hospital that morning, did they let you see him?

SHAPIRO: The most difficult thing that a parent will ever endure is seeing a child on life support with their eyes taped closed and standing next to his mother and knowing that you'll never see him again.

KELLY: The Shapiro family channeled their grief into the Brent Shapiro foundation which lobbied hard for a Good Samaritan law that says anyone can report a drug overdose without fear of getting into trouble themselves. He wants this to be his legacy, but that's probably not what people will remember him for. What's the takeaway from the trial of the century?

SHAPIRO: There's moral justice, and there's legal justice, and when that not guilty verdict was rendered, I felt legal justice was done. As far as moral justice, I haven't discussed it with anyone including my wife.

KELLY: So, I assume you have been following the 2016 presidential election.

MICHAEL DOUGLAS, MOVIE ACTOR: Is there an election going on?

KELLY: Plus, more of my interview with Donald Trump. Let's have some fun.

TRUMP: Go ahead.

KELLY: Okay.


KELLY: Now America's most indestructible movie star. Even though his father turns 100 this year, no one is particularly concerned about Kirk Douglas' health. Michael Douglas, on the other hand, can't sneeze without someone righting an obit. In a way it's a compliment. You know you're still relevant when the tabloids haven't left you alone for half a century.

So, I read in the tabloids a few weeks ago that you only had three months to live. Tell me that is not true.

DOUGLAS: What I love about these tabloids is they actually call you to check and say we just know we're going with a story and the story came out and people were calling me saying hi, how are you doing? I say good as you. Are you okay? I said, yeah, I'm okay.

KELLY: Well, I was thinking when I heard you had three months to live and you were sitting for this interview for me that maybe I was on your bucket list.


KELLY: I'm honored.

DOUGLAS: Tick tock.

KELLY: Michael Douglas has lived a big life. The son of a movie legend who became a movie legend. A type A personality, he was always the coolest guy in the room and a little bit dangerous. And I mean that in a good way. For 71 years, Michael Douglas has had astonishing good fortune mixed with some very bad luck. It hasn't always been easy to watch.


DOUGLEAS: Yeah. I got cancer. So I've got cancer, found out about it three weeks ago.


KELLY: Stage IV oral cancer has a way of getting your attention. True. But things are slowly turning around for Michael. His son Cameron, after being in prison for seven long years on drug charges, is due to be released next year. Marriage to Catherine Zeta-Jones once rumored to be on the rocks seems to have found solid ground. And today, Michael is cancer-free.

You've actually gone through a lot in recent years. What would you say was your darkest moment?

DOUGLAS: Probably the combination around the time just before my cancer was my oldest son, Cameron, who is 37 now, his struggle with addiction for most of his life and was a serious heroin addict, which eventually brought him into federal prison. It broke my heart, a combination when he was sentenced. I knew the amount of time he was going to be spending in federal prison combined with my early cancer at the same time. That was a one-two shot that was probably pretty dark moment.

KELLY: When he was growing up, you're a big movie star, you have incredible opportunities that nobody else on this earth typically gets. I would think it would be tough to look back and regret that, but do you?

DOUGLAS: Do I have guilt? Absolutely. You have guilt. We all do. You're working hard, you got three young children.

KELLY: You're Jewish. You had guilt.


KELLY: I can relate on Catholic.

DOUGLAS: Exactly.

KELLY: Now, you're a man who likes to stay on top of things. How would you feel when you heard Ted Cruz start to quote the lines you had said? When you played the president in the film "The American President"?

DOUGLAS: It was the most d,j. vu, the weirdest sensation I ever saw and I thought probably one of the most embarrassing.


TED CRUZ, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And if Donald wants to get in a character fight --

DOUGLAS: You want a character to debate, Bob.

CRUZ: He's better off sticking with me.

DOUGLAS: You better stick with me.

CRUZ: Because Heidi is way out of his league.

DOUGLAS: Because Sydney Ellen Wade is way out of your league.


DOUGLAS: When Cruz did that, it was funny.

KELLY: Life imitates art.

For decades now, Michael Douglas has generally been cast as morally, sometimes fatally flawed. He takes your money.


DOUGLAS: I can sell it to the neighbor for 600.


KELLY: Or your life. Cheats on his wife.


DOUGLAS: I don't think having dinner with anybody is a crime.


KELLY: Seduces your woman. Or man.


DOUGLAS: Well, this must be faith.


KELLY: And does it with a smile. If he has never been a traditional leading man, he has committed himself now to leading a traditional life. He calls this his third act. And he wants it to be different. He's a U.N. Messenger of Peace, concentrating on nuclear disarmament.


DOUGLAS: We'll see the elimination of weapons.


KELLY: He's focused on providing support and understanding to Jewish people in interfaith marriages much like his own and he's still trying to be a good son.

DOUGLAS: My father is 99 years old. I just saw him. He's going to be 100.


DOUGLAS: In December. I bet you right now he's better shape than he was five years -- he's going on 102. With his really long ponytail to the back, halfway down his back. I went up this last time, it was gone. A little bit like you.

KELLY: I was going to say, I know the feeling.

DOUGLAS: Right, a bit like you. I said, dad, what did you do? You loved your ponytail, it was great. He said, "This makes me look younger."

KELLY: You've got to be planning something for his 100th birthday.

DOUGLAS: We talked about just now. He's sort of, you know, I mean, it will be in the afternoon.

KELLY: Yeah. They say it shouldn't be a surprise party at that level.


KELLY: My nana just had one of these. Don't make it a surprise.

DOUGLAS: How old?

KELLY: 100 years old.

DOUGLAS: You're kidding.

KELLY: I mean, I know he's still married, but you know, she's free. So, if he has any friends.

DOUGLAS: Right, right, right. He's good, okay. A 100, congratulations.

KELLY: You've been given a second chance at fatherhood. Name one specific thing you're doing differently this time around.

DOUGLAS: Listening. With kids now, I'm a much better listener. And one of the things I remember that happened is when my mother got together, my stepfather early on and he asked me a question one day. He was talking. I was talking and I was pretty inward. And I looked up. And he was listening to me. He was actually listening to me.

And I just swelled up and started crying. It was the weirdest thing. It came over just because I had somebody, a male figure who listened to me. So, I think it's probably the biggest -- not only with my kids listening, with Catherine.

KELLY: It helps in a marriage, too. A lot.

DOUGLAS: It does. It helps a lot.

KELLY: How is she doing?

DOUGLAS: She's wonderful. She's just great.

KELLY: I know you recently went back to the place that you proposed to her. You're getting a little sappy, aren't you.

DOUGLAS: Megyn, what are you doing? You're doing too much homework on that.

KELLY: I know what I saw.

DOUGLAS: I just love her more and more. Love can actually become deeper.

KELLY: Was there a moment in your life when you thought this is it? I am firing on all cylinders, this is my moment?

DOUGLAS: Probably now. This is as close as they come in terms of putting the whole package together, you know, in terms of your personal life and I'm still working and a chance to talk with you on your first show. Thank you very much.

KELLY: Excellent. Thank you very much.

DOUGLAS: Thank you.

KELLY: A shocking admission from Donald Trump, when we return -- I knew it.


KELLY: Let's have some fun.

TRUMP: Go ahead.

KELLY: Okay, I want to ask you rapid-fire questions about Donald Trump.  Number one, favorite movie?

TRUMP: "Citizen Cane".

KELLY: Favorite book, other than the bible or "The Art of the Deal"?

TRUMP: "All Quiet on the Western Front".

KELLY: What was the last book you read? Do you get any time to read?

TRUMP: Oh, no, it's so long, because now I read passages. I read -- I read areas, I read chapters. I just -- I don't have the time. You know, when was the last time I watched a baseball game? I'm watching you all the time, okay?

KELLY: I knew it!

TRUMP: I'm watching O'Reilly all the time. I'm watching Hannity.

KELLY: Be honest.

TRUMP: I'm watching Greta

KELLY: You didn't really boycott.

TRUMP: Maybe a little bit. Not as much as -- not as much as I want people to believe. But I don't have the time. I would love to sit down and read a book, but I just don't have the time anymore.

KELLY: Well, in addition to "The Kelly File," I have been working on a project, a book which I'm unveiling right now. It's called "Settle for More"-- my life motto ever since I was an unhappy lawyer years ago.     The book shows how I did just that, with some tears and laughs along the way.

And, yes, for the first time, I will speak openly about my year with Donald Trump.  You can pre-order it now wherever books are sold. It hits stores November 15th.  My thanks to Donald trump, Laverne Cox, Robert Shapiro, and Michael Douglas for sitting down with me on my first special. And thank you all for watching. Good night.


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