Media reaction to Muslim ban overshadows terror attack
Why are the media focusing on Donald Trump first and on terror second?; Debate on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," December 8, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, the nation was hit by a terrorist attack less than seven days ago. For five days, the country and its press focused on the killers. Trying to get to the bottom of who they were. How deeply connected to terror they had become. And who, if anyone, helped finance the plan or support their operation. On the sixth day, Donald Trump decided he'd like to get back into the media headlines.
Welcome to "The Kelly File" everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. President Obama came out on Sunday two days after the FBI confirmed this was a terrorist attack to, quote, "reassure us." What we received was a statement that his strategy will not change, that some visa programs will be reviewed, gun laws that wouldn't have prevented this attack, nevertheless need to be tightened and reminding us to reject any instinct to treat Muslims differently or to fear monger about Islam. In response to which most Republicans replied, no one is doing that, Mr. President. Enter Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. We have no choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: And now less than a week after the worst terror attack on America since 9/11, we are in a full blown media circus. Not about these two killers and their terror ties, but about something a man who was not the president said he would do if by chance his party nominates him to be president and then the same general electorate that elected Barack Obama twice happens to choose him Donald Trump as their president. Trump's remarks have already been labeled hateful, bigoted, racist and un-American and that's just from his Republican rivals. They have been condemned by the prime ministers of both Britain and France. I kid you not. They've been condemned by the Senate majority leader, by Hillary Clinton of course, by the White House, which declared that this should be it for Mr. Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The first thing a president does when he or she takes the oath of office is to swear an oath to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States. And the fact is that what Donald Trump said yesterday disqualifies him from serving as president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: The Pentagon, yes, the Pentagon saw fit to weigh in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER COOK, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Without wading into politics, anything that tries to bolster, if you will, the ISIL narrative that the United States is somehow at war with Islam is contrary to our values and contrary to our National Security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Dick Cheney recoiled, almost the entire GOP presidential field attacked the comments as did the speaker of the house in an extraordinary moment earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, R-WIS., HOUSE SPEAKER: Normally, I do not comment on what's going on in the presidential election. I will take an exception today. This is not conservatism. What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for, and more importantly, it's not what this country stands for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: But reaction from our leaders and elected officials was nothing. Compared to the non-stop incessant drumbeat of media outlets that first booked Donald Trump to appear in their shows and then played those interviews ad nauseam all day long. CNN and MSNBC gave Trump half hour interviews by phone on their morning shows and then reran the exchanges in their entirety later in the day. It was all Trump, all the time across almost all the media. We are talking 18 plus hours of coverage devoted to him in the past 24 hours.
And the crowning moment when ABC News went to no less than Barbara Walters to interview Trump for this evening's "World News Tonight" broadcast. Yes, Peter Jennings old post. Which featured roughly ten minutes of Trump coverage before they even got to the issue of terror. You remember terror? The 14 dead and the 21 injured in California? Here's a little of Barbara Walters' interview of Trump which amazingly ABC News had the nerve to label exclusive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, ABC "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" ANCHOR: Do you regret your ban on Muslims, which some people think is un-American?
TRUMP: Not at all. We have to do the right thing. Somebody in this country has to say what's right. I have great respect and love. I have people that I have tremendous relationships with. They are Muslim. And Barbara, they agree with me 100 percent.
WALTERS: Are you a bigot?
TRUMP: Not at all, probably the least of anybody you have ever met.
WALTERS: Because?
TRUMP: Because I'm not. I'm a person that has common sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Well, we will not be devoting an hour or half hour or 20 minutes to what Trump said tonight. We will discuss it since it is a big story and this is the GOP front-runner. But we are going to discuss terror tonight with Dr. Sebastian Gorka who was in the FBI -- with the FBI in LA during this attack. And then with Andy McCarthy who was here, the former federal prosecutor who brought to justice the man behind the first trade center bombing. He'll tell us what he sees from the evidence on earth so far about these terror ties.
But we begin tonight with Marc Thiessen and Howie Kurtz. Howie, there is no question that remarks like this from the Republican frontrunner are a big story. The media has to cover it. But wow, really?
HOWIE KURTZ, HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": Well, given the way this has exploded across the political landscape given the denunciations from within his own party as you just played. Given the resonance here. Given the skills like a tipping point in the campaign, any news organization that wasn't all over it would be guilty of malpractice. But at the same time, as you point out, this is how Trump sees the media spotlight again and again and again by saying something that seems outlandish that goes too far, there's over the top, and then he calls into all the shows, a privilege not accorded to other candidates and they replay it.
KELLY: It's lather, rinse, repeat. We have seen this many times, Howie. And the media is complicit. I mean, it's one thing if you'd never seen this happen before. But whenever Donald Trump's poll numbers fall, like we saw that Monmouth poll out of Iowa yesterday which put Ted Cruz in the first position before the CNN poll came out later in the day, putting Donald Trump back at number one. Ted Cruz for the first time nationally is polling in the second position. Whenever they fall, he says something to get himself back on TV. He went six days without dominating the air waves.
KURTZ: Also the movie that we have seen before is that when all of the establishment press beats up on Trump as well as the political establishment or what remains of it, this helps him with his base, which sees him as -- which sees him as standing up --
KELLY: Right. Of course, this isn't going to do anything to his numbers with his core supporters. Anybody who thinks that hasn't been paying attention.
KURTZ: Right. But the press is in a box here, Megyn. Because on the one hand, it's our responsibility to cover what he says, especially something like this aggressively.
KELLY: Sure. Cover.
KURTZ: At the same time, not let him hijack the campaign.
KELLY: All day? Eight hours on MSNBC today.
KURTZ: That's the thing.
KELLY: Eight hours on CNN today. Marc Thiessen, you tell me whether that is accidental. Whether there's some reason they would prefer to be talking about what Donald Trump has said and whether he represents Republicans versus the terror attack that the President has basically said he's going to do nothing about to change our strategy in fighting this group ISIS.
MARC THIESSEN, FORMER CHIEF SPEECHWRITER FOR PRESIDENT G.W. BUSH: Oh, no. Absolutely. Look, at the White House they are saying, thank God for Donald Trump. I mean, here we have the worst terror attack on our soil since 9/11. We found a terrorist bomb-making factory in a suburban neighborhood. President Obama was once again caught having underestimated the threat telling us a day before the attacks that we didn't have to worry about a Paris-style attack here and being proven wrong. And 68 percent of the American people, according to a recent poll this week, say that he's not doing enough on the ground militarily to defeat ISIS. This is the most important story -- this is our national security in the balance and we're talking about Donald Trump and something that's never going to happen, banning all Muslims from entering this country.
KELLY: And it's one thing for Donald Trump to say it, Marc. But you tell me whether the media marches like lemmings when the conductor, you know, he gets the orchestra going and the media understand their role. They start playing the flute and playing the clarinet and doing exactly what he wants them to do.
THIESSEN: No. They absolutely do because it's a ratings bonanza for them. And also to the extent that there's a liberal bias in the media. It's good for them to move off this story. I mean, think about it. Donald Trump clearly benefits, but who else benefits from this? Barack Obama benefits because we're not talking about his failed strategy on ISIS. Hillary Clinton benefits --
KELLY: But there's more to it than that Marc. There's more to it because now the articles are coming out. There was a piece in the federalist today, and you're hearing this more and more, that there are many Republicans and Democrats, for that matter, who believe that Donald Trump if he were to become the nominee, never mine the President represents a potentially generational catastrophic event for the Republican Party.
THIESSEN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, the more they can pump up Trump, the better for the Democrats. I mean, Hillary Clinton benefits from this because it helps Donald Trump and all of the Republican Party is now having a debate instead of debating terrorism, we're having a debate over whether we should ban, have a total and complete ban on all Muslims entering America. That helps them. And by the way, it also helps ISIS. Because as a Pentagon spokesman, you just quoted said, this is a huge propaganda victory for Islamic radicalism. They want to paint us, Americans as being anti-Muslim at war with Islam and this just feeds this narrative. So, everybody benefits except the Republican Party and the country.
KELLY: Howie, is there no responsibility on the part of the media to say, it's a story, sure. I mean, you know, we're leading with the story tonight. And now it is almost 9:11 and we are moving on. But these outlets that do these half an hour phoners with him that they then re-air later, that shows that devote 30, 45 minutes to covering this one statement and almost nothing to terror.
KURTZ: Sure, we have some responsibility to stay focused on what happened in San Bernardino and the terrorist story, which has now become the Donald Trump story. Sure. We have some responsibility to have some fairness toward the other candidates who are competing for the nomination. But I will say this. And by the way, it's not just liberal bias conservative commentators are among Trump's most vehement critics. At least he allows himself, he puts himself in the journalistic firing line, he allows himself to be interviewed in a way a lot of candidates duck the press or issue carefully cultivated sound bites, so at least we get a chance to go at him, but of course that feeds into the Trump's narrative which then at times just swallows the whole thing.
KELLY: All the Republicans make themselves available. Hillary Clinton does make herself quite as available as she should. But it's no trouble getting the GOPers to come on. It's good to see you both.
THIESSEN: Good to see you, Megyn.
KURTZ: Good to see you, Megyn.
KELLY: There are also chilling new questions tonight about the husband and wife behind last week's terror attack. As FOX News learns the wife may have entered this country with Jihad on her mind.
Adam Housley has the very latest.
Plus, we have two of the best analysts with a former federal prosecutor Andy McCarthy who led the prosecution of the Blind Sheikh. And terrorism expert Dr. Sebastian Gorka who was with the FBI in Los Angeles during last week's attack. They are next, don't miss this.
And 48 hours after President Obama addressed the nation on the worst terrorist attack since 9/11, the commander-in-chief faces serious questions over how he plans to keep this country safe. FOX News senior political analysts Brit Hume weighs in on leadership in a time of terror.
Plus, the FBI is encouraging Americans to speak up if they see something suspicious. But what about legitimate worries that speaking up may land you in hot water. The dangers of political correctness, still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, a new report suggesting the male terrorist from last week's attack from San Bernardino may have been plotting an earlier attack with someone else back in 2012. This comes as investigators now tell Fox News they are looking into the possibility that Tashfeen Malik, the wife, was a, quote, "operative" and they are now certain she was already an Islamic extremist before she ever stepped foot on U.S. soil. In moments, we'll be joined by a former federal Prosecutor Andy McCarthy and terrorism expert Dr. Sebastian Gorka.
But we begin with Adam Housley with the very latest in Redlands, California. Adam.
ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Megyn. For counterterror officials, it's not too much of a surprise. But for many people who aren't familiar with that type of thing, they're telling us, Tashfeen Malik they are almost certain was radicalized overseas. Syed was radicalized here. What's interesting though is they said, Tashfeen and her family maybe radicalized as well and that's where the investigation is going. They say because of that, they are looking into the possibility that she was some sort of operative. They won't expand on that, but she was some sort of an operative when she came here to the states, radicalized. And her husband again was already radicalized, they believe, as well.
It comes also as reports are that they both may have now pledged or may have pledged some sort of allegiance to ISIS after the attack. We know the reports came out that she did, but now reports are they both may have or she may have posted on behalf of both of them which would make sense if they're both were radicalized. Also information about Syed's father. He is now were told on a terror watch list. We're told that could be because it helps them with the investigation. Clearly, there's more information there. I'm told by investigators clearly there's a lot more that he may be telling and that's why he continues to be -- or now he's added to as we say that terror watch list. And one more note for you as well.
Besides the money trail, it seems that only still go internationally but there's a deposit here of $28,500 in the Union Bank. It seems to be the final process in that attack. We also know that money may have gone at least part of it to Enrique Marquez. We now know there is a connection, Megyn. Enrique Marquez is connected to these two killers through marriage.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Adam, thank you.
Joining us now with more, Andy McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor who led the prosecution against the Blind Sheikh and 11 other Jihadists for waging war against the United States including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. He's also a National Review contributing editor. And Dr. Sebastian Gorka who provides counterterrorism trainings at the FBI and Special Forces, he serves as the Major General Matthew C. Horner Distinguished Chair of Military Theory at Marine Corps University. His website is the GorkaBriefing.com. Thank you both for being here. So now it looks like they were both in on it fully and that she came here radicalized, which is what people believe to begin with.
Andy, you made an interesting point today which is, to say that she came here radicalized actually isn't saying much. Why?
ANDY MCCARTHY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, she's from Saudi Arabia or she spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia after leaving Pakistan. If you were in Spain and somebody was over there speaking Spanish, you wouldn't say looks like a radical. You'd say looks like a citizen. In Saudi Arabia, Sharia is the law of the land and Islamic supremacism were what we call Islamism is the mainstream Islam --
KELLY: That's the default.
MCCARTHY: Right.
KELLY: You should assume unless otherwise told.
MCCARTHY: Right.
KELLY: And yet, when they applied for this K-1 visa for her to come to the United States, it sounds like it got a rubber stamp. Come on in.
MCCARTHY: Well, it does get a rubber stamp because we have an administration, not that the previous administration was perfect in this regard by any means. But we now have an administration that follows a strategy called countering violent extremism.
KELLY: Not countering terrorism
MCCARTHY: Right. We don't want to say terrorism, that would be bad. But what the strategy says is that you're supposed to divorce things like ideology, where a person comes from and those kinds of things.
KELLY: You don't even consider that.
MCCARTHY: Correct.
KELLY: So, if you're an Islamist --
MCCARTHY: Right.
KELLY: -- you don't even consider that. I'm not talking about Muslim. I'm talking about Islamism, you believe in Sharia and so on. That's irrelevant.
MCCARTHY: Right. Well, the point is, they want to -- the administration wants to cooperate with the Muslim Brotherhood, which means they have to figure out a way to erase radicalism from the equation. So, the way you do that is you say, we're not going to look at that.
KELLY: Not looking at that. Didn't hear it. Didn't happen. Dr. Gorka, when you hear more about how this plot unfolded and now we hear that in the mother's car they found the packaging from one of those GoPro cameras. And the money that was either -- now it looks like they don't believe that that was foreign deposited, but that they took out a loan prior to unleashing this hell. What does it tell you?
DR. SEBASTIAN GORKA, MARINE CORPS UNIVERSITY: These are indications that this is really classic Jihadi trade craft. So if the GoPro report is true, that means they prepared to video their attack for later use by ISIS or somebody else in their propaganda videos. The money didn't come from aboard. We have a report coming out in the mainstream media just later today that will prove or at least indicate that ISIS has made $100 million in the last year on the internet through bilking, through doing false loans under false pretenses. So even ISIS is doing this.
This is on Breitbart.com later today which means they are following an ISIS strategy. So we don't have to have command and control back to Iraq or back to Syria. Just patents of what they are doing. Surveilling a place beforehand. Classic Jihadi trade craft, videoing it, using money under false pretenses to pay off people, to reward people relatives who may survive. We have all seen this before. And one very important thing, female Jihadist not new. We have had the black widows in Chechnya. We have had the woman in Paris. The first suicide bomber in Iraq, the first female suicide bomber was a Belgium convert who was a woman. So, this shouldn't surprise anybody.
KELLY: What about the fact that and I think a lot of people are still surprised that, okay, she was here, she was radicalized. Whatever how you want to say it. She's got a six-month-old, she has the baby while she's planning to commit mass murder? I mean, I still think a lot of people don't understand that, Andy.
MCCARTHY: Megyn, I think that we have to take a step back and look at all of the suicide terrorism that we have, all of the Jihadists who had put their lives in danger and often killed themselves in the course of this. This is a powerful ideology. We can't just sort of do what we do which is just say, they are all crazy.
KELLY: And look at it through our own prism.
MCCARTHY: Exactly right. We project what we think on their brains. And point of fact they are raised in a different culture. They have a different -- really a different civilization and different way of looking at the world.
KELLY: On the subject of the mosques and what we should be surveilling and not surveilling and all that, you've written about this. You say it's actually pretty easy to determine which mosque is moderate because there are some and which ones are not.
MCCARTHY: Yes, it's very easy to determine.
KELLY: How?
MCCARTHY: By talking to people who come in and out of the mosque, by having people go in and out of the mosques, by observing what kind of literature is available in the mosque. That's one of the best ways. A lot of it endorses Jihad.
GORKA: And where the Imams was trained.
MCCARTHY: Yes. Well, that --
GORKA: It's hugely important.
MCCARTHY: Was he trained by the Deobandis in Pakistan or by the Egyptians in Cairo? Was he trained by the Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia, as many have been?
KELLY: But that's another thing we've dismantled under this administration. We're no longer looking at the mosques.
MCCARTHY: We want the Islamist organizations to be our eyes and ears in the community. In the meantime, they don't have the same interest in American National Security as we do.
KELLY: And so, what do we do about that? I mean, because we have civil liberties and we have a president that doesn't believe in that and he have to strike some balance between, you know, sort of where Trump is on some of these issues and where the constitution is.
MCCARTHY: This is not a constitutional issue. They made it into one. There's no constitutional prohibition against sending informants into a mosque. Or doing surveillance.
KELLY: I was talking about his register all Muslims comment.
MCCARTHY: Well, that would not only be unconstitutional, it would probably be stupid. Because the only people to register would be the law- abiding ones.
KELLY: Right. Right. Right.
MCCARTHY: But the fact of the matter is, in all of our terrorism cases, guns, transactions, all kinds of planning in the mosques.
KELLY: Thank you both so much. Also tonight new details in the investigation into this mother and whether she should be charged.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: As Washington tonight debates whether to bring back our federal terror alert system, the director of the FBI is asking all Americans to be alert.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: If you see something that doesn't make sense, you say something to somebody. We investigate in secret so we don't smear innocent people. We don't run over and bang on your neighbor's door if you say something. We investigate. If there was nothing there, no harm done. If there was something there, great harm may be avoided.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Great idea in theory. But when a Texas student recently showed up to school with something that looked like a bomb and school officials said something, it turned into a national firestorm. They were criticized by no less than the White House and they now face a massive lawsuit. Not to mention we found out that they are being investigated by the Department of Justice.
Brooke Goldstein is a human rights attorney and author of "Lawfare: The War Against Free Speech." Brooke, good to see you. We had the Director Comey sitting there telling us if we see something, say something. Don't be hesitant. It doesn't hurt to have the FBI check it out. Next to his boss, the Attorney General Loretta Lynch, who the night before has said publicly the DOJ is now investigating the Texas School district that saw something and said something and in good faith was wrong. That's the belief, at least, about this so-called clock kid.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN, HUMAN RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right. I mean, at the very least, the government is sending mixed messages. They are saying report to us if you see something that's suspicious, but if you do and it's a suspicious activity is being carried out by a Muslim, we're going to target you, we are going to investigate you. And the fact that we have the attorney general of the United States one day after 14 Americans were massacred by radical Islamists going to a press conference, not sympathizing with the victims, not saying that we're going to investigate radicalization in our country, but announcing that she is going to go after a children's school district for reporting a bomb-like clock is sending the wrong message.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And saying explicitly and during her remarks in front of this Muslim-American group that her greatest fear, her greatest fear is this type of anti-Muslim rhetoric and the potential for accompanying attacks saying that this has been -- she said there's been a very disturbing rise in anti-Muslim rhetoric when she made that presentation the day after the terror attack.
GOLDSTEIN: I mean, this is the raison d'etre of the Obama administration to convince us that Islam has nothing to do with radical Islam and to target those in the counterterrorism community, to target Americans and now apparently to target school districts if they say anything or they report on anything that they seem to be related to radical Islam. I mean, this is a government that fires FBI officials for big Islamophobic for merely giving courses to our counterterrorism personnel about the theological roots of Islamist terrorism. So, I mean, we have talked about this many times on the show, Megyn Kelly. There was an all- out war on free speech and it's being carried out not just by the Obama administration, but now you have groups like the Council on American Islamic Relations --
KELLY: CAIR.
GOLDSTEIN: -- which was front and center that is a very litigious groups that sues anyone that talks about radical Islamist --
KELLY: All right. The threat means many times. And you, I know. But here's the thing. They came out immediately. They came out almost immediately after that terrorist attack in San Bernardino parading the family member in front who was Muslim to say, this wasn't me, this isn't Islam.
GOLDSTEIN: Right. And then you have the president of the United States who is now preaching to us what is the real Islam and what is not the real Islam. And I've been speaking about this with some of my friends and this is trending very close to a violation of the establishment clause where the government is not allowed to favor one version of a religion over another version. And we have our entire national security policy is based on favoring the peaceful version of Islam over the non-peaceful version when those who have declared war against our country ascribe to the non- peaceful version of Islam.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
GOLDSTEIN: But we're not allowed to talk about that or we're Islamophobic.
KELLY: That's interesting, Brooke. And Andy McCarthy has a very interesting piece at nationalreview.com right now on this, on how there are plenty -- obviously, a peaceful Muslims who have assimilated in the United States and accepted American values and accept the separation church and state. And then there is another group who believe in Sharia and who do not believe in that separation and want something very different. Its worth checking out -- Brooke, great to see you.
GOLDSTEIN: Thank you.
KELLY: Well, just 48 hours after President Obama addressed the nation on the worst terrorist attack since 9/11 in the United States, the commander-in-chief now facing serious questions over how he plans to keep us safe. Fox News senior political analyst, Brit Hume weighs in for the first time since we saw the attacks take place on presidential leadership in the time of terror.
And later, a woman who survived last week's terror shooting shares her heroing account of the deadly rampage and how her co-worker gave his life to save hers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENISE PERAZA, SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Gunpowder smell, I'll never forget it, never. I'm so glad I was sitting with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's The Kelly File with Megyn Kelly.
KELLY: Well, just 48 hours after President Obama addressed the nation there are growing questions tonight over his response, to the worst terrorist attack since 9/11. As the president argues for staying the course on his current strategy, despite a new poll showing 64 percent of Americans believe his strategy is not working.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The threat from terrorism is real, but we will overcome it. We will destroy ISIL and any other organization that tries to harm us. Our success won't depend on tough talk or abandoning our values or giving in to fear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Brit Hume is our Fox News senior political analyst. So Brit, I will never forget seeing you on 9/11, sitting on the set, down in Washington talking about how that was a before and after moment where you would remember, you know, what America was like prior and what it would be like after. And that is not to say that San Bernardino rises to that level, but it is a major terror attack on U.S. soil. And the question for you is whether our commander-in-chief struck the right tone and the right message, and pushed the right policy when we listened to him on Sunday night.
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Megyn, it's a little hard to judge a person's leadership on a matter in which the person is really not trying to lead, indeed, Megyn, to the extent that he is, he seems to be wanting more than anything. And despite all that's happened, to lead America away from what he considered is unfortunate interventionist past, President Bush, of course, changed the entire course of his presidency. The entire focus of it and became immediately a war-time president. President Obama, although, this particular attack was not nearly as severe in terms of the loss of life as 9/11 was, we've been engaged in trying to defeat these terrorists ever since. And what the president has done has manifestly failed to do that. And indeed, the threat from ISIS and al-Qaeda's successor has only grown. And, you know, he seems impervious to all that in terms of the willingness to change his policy, which is of course, one in which he wants the leadership and particularly, the soldiers to come from somewhere else.
KELLY: When we saw this after Fort Hood where he said workplace violence and stuck to it for so many years. I mean, that Sunday was the first time I heard him refer to that as terrorism. And this attack on San Bernardino, they -- so many in the administration seems to try so hard to get this to be workplace violence, which of course, it wasn't, and all the signs were staring us in the face. And it leads people with an uneasy feeling about whether we're looking at this with clear eyes and responding accordingly, Brit?
HUME: Well, I think that's right, Megyn. And I think that people are far more alarmed about this and the president seems to be, and nothing about his demeanor or his words, gives us a sense that he is really ready to go after ISIS and similar terrorist organizations with real fervor. And you know the kind of urgency in which you do as -- for example, George H.W. Bush did in the aftermath of Iraq invasion. Kuwait, where you make an all out administration wide, military and diplomatic effort to create a coalition build an armed force and use whatever force it took to go and reverse what had happened. And of course, you saw it in his son's presidency when as we talked about earlier, he completely reversed the course of his administration and focused to the greatest extent by far on that.
KELLY: And that when it was failing, what is that, he was failing Brit. He reversed again and came out and said my strategy is not working, which we all knew any way, and we seem to be at that same point now as we see ISIS is not contained in the Middle East. No sooner does the president say that than in his own chairman of the joint chief said exactly the opposite. And as they make strides in the Middle East, what we see is a corresponding boldness here at home where people feel excited by it. They feel inspired by the ISIS successes over there. So it's not completely irrelevant to what happens here in the Homeland.
HUME: You know, the president talks a lot about how, you know, if we went over there big and came in with a serious invading force that that would play into ISIS's hands -- maybe. But I think it's more likely that's what's playing into ISIS's hands is the sense of ISIS's invincibility, that when they are attacked in one place and perhaps, success or restrained in one area, they show the ability to attack in another as Paris and San Bernardino have so clearly illustrated. And so I think the president, you know his concept. What I'm concerned about is his concept is wrong. And if his concept is wrong, he is not gonna -- and his willingness to look at the problem in the eye and call it what it is, is misguided as well. So we have these duel problems with him and you know, he's been said at him, I saw somebody today called him a milksop. Well, he's not really that. He's too stubborn to be.
KELLY: I don't know what that is. What is that mean?
HUME: It's a weak -- basically, a weakling.
KELLY: Milksop.
HUME: And he's not really that in the sense of.
KELLY: Good word. No, not I'm saying about Obama, I just like the word, milksop.
HUME: And it's a colorful word. I checked its meaning before, (inaudible).
(LAUGHTER)
HUME: But he's really not that. In the sense, he's been pretty tough in the sense of his been pretty tough in the sense of his rigidity in refusing to change course. And the speech on the other night was remarkable in that sense, that he came out and delivers this, you know, with 15-minute address in which he basically did three things, one is he admitted San Bernardino and a couple other events as well, were terrorism for the first time. And then he proceeded to lay out for us all of the steps he had taken that had failed to prevent San Bernardino. And then he spent much of the speech lecturing us on how we are to behave toward Muslims suggesting to me and it was -- he doesn't trust Americans to behave properly, and the aftermath of this attack. It was discouraging.
KELLY: Do you know Donald Trump?
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: He may have been seeing something that the rest of us didn't anticipate, Brit, got to go.
HUME: Well, he certainly saw a moment for himself.
KELLY: It's great to see you.
HUME: Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, we also have Breaking News tonight in the investigation into this mother, the mother of the San Bernardino male terrorist. The FBI is seizing several items from her car, as we get reports that she has been put on a terrorist watch list and growing questions about her story that she didn't know anything. Arthur Aidala and Mark Eiglarsh are next on what could happen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking Tonight. New details in the investigation into the mother of the San Bernardino male terrorist, Syed Farook, the FBI seizing a number of items from her car as we hear reports that U.S. authorities have now put her on a terror watchlist. In moments, we're joined by Arthur Aidala and Mark Eiglarsh on whether the police have enough information to arrest this woman. But we begin with Trace Gallagher live in Los Angeles for the Breaking News, Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Megyn, the 2005 black Lexus was reportedly registered Rafia Farook. And she and her son were both listed on the insurance documents, Rafia as the primary driver, Syed Farook as the secondary driver. Because of what we now know, the items found inside the car raise a number of resident flags. For example, we know the husband and wife killers took several trips to gun ranges for target practice. Shooting targets were found inside the car. We know they were building explosive devices. Several tools were also taken from the vehicle, as well as an empty GoPro camera package. Although, killers or authorities denied the killer strap GoPro to themselves before storming the regional center, mounted GoPro have been used by ISIS followers in other attacks. Even mundane items found inside the car like U-Haul receipts and notebook. And legal documents could ultimately help answer whether the mom could have driven the car and not noticed the tools and targets, could have lived in the house and not noticed the so-called IED factory in the garage. Syed Farook's father has already admitted, he knew about his son's extremist leanings and he lived across town. The Farook family lawyer said the mother knew nothing, but there are now reports Rafia Farook was herself, an active member of the Islamic Circle of North America, which has been linked to a radical Pakistani political group, and in 20002, invited a radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, as a guest speaker. Awlaki later become an al-Qaeda recruiter. When it comes to that -- if anything, the mother knew. Attorney General Loretta Lynch says they are looking very, very closely.
KELLY: I'll bet they are.
GALLAGHER: Megyn?
KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining me now Arthur Aidala, Fox News legal analyst and New York trial attorney, and Mark Eiglarsh, who is a criminal defense attorney. I mean, you're telling me this mother knew nothing, Arthur? She knew -- they lived with her. They're -- they drive the same car -- you know, targets from shooting practice, aren't a smoking gun, but the entire picture suggests this woman knew a lot more than she's letting on. Does it not?
ARTHUR AIDALA, FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: And yes. And let just add one more point. She babysat a lot for their 6-month-old. And you know a 6- month-old is a real baby. You have to have a lot of interaction with mommy and daddy, or at least one of the parents. So the way they try to make it out like, well, she didn't really know what was going on downstairs.
KELLY: All they want to believe they were living at Versailles.
AIDALA: Right.
KELLY: You know -- like they were so far. We saw that, we saw the video of the home. It's small.
AIDALA: Right. So but this is all circumstantial evidence. Everything that trace just articulated about her car. It's registered to her, what was in the car, what was in the garage? That's all circumstantial evidence that at the very least is a crime on the books, a federal crime who have (inaudible) a felony. Which means, if you knew or you really should have known a crime was about to take place, you need to pick up the phone and call whatever authority you have to, to prevent that crime from taking place.
KELLY: Mark, do you agree?
AIDALA: The very least, it should be.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I am. I am shocked.
AIDALA: Investigate on that.
EIGLARSH: I'm not only don't I agree with Arthur, I'm shocked that those words are flowing from his lips. As a criminal defense attorney who knows that for over two centuries, the burden of proof is always proof beyond a reasonable doubt, even when you're angry with someone, even when the crime is unbelievably offensive. And what you've got, if you look at all the facts here is that she definitely, 100 percent may have known what was going on and without a doubt, possibly, even assisted, but that is pure speculation.
AIDALA: But Mark.
EIGLARSH: And the case would be thrown out by the judge.
KELLY: Go ahead, Arthur.
AIDALA: But Mark, what you're saying is accurate at trial in front of a jury. But for probable cause, a much, much, much, much lower standard to make an arrest. Megyn Kelly asked me the question. Could should -- could she be arrested at this point? The low standard of probable cause with the plethora of circumstantial evidence.
EIGLARSH: No.
AIDALA: I think an argument could be made.
KELLY: Mark, please.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: They are not saying that the $28,000 that they took out was supposedly -- that this was a deposit from webbank.com. That this would -- that they were clearing out their bank accounts. That Syed took out $10,000 in cash and another $15,000 was transferred to an account, believed it was belong to mother. So she gets $15,000 and on top of that Mark, she was home with their baby on the day they went to kill all those people. They came -- he came back from that event, the two of them done bulletproof vest. We don't know if they did it in front of her in the house, but at some point, they put on their bulletproof vests, their ski masks. They grabbed several guns, tons of ammo and pipe bombs. And they left to go kill a bunch of Americans. She saw nothing. And then later on the day, when the shootout was taking place from the streets of San Bernardino, she didn't know that was her car? She didn't know, she wasn't asking herself. They said they had the flu and were going to the doctor. She is ill. She's been at the doctor for several hours now. Your -- no phone call to police? That's not suspicious?
EIGLARSH: No, it is. And she absolutely may be guilty. But we're talking about a legal standard here, and what Arthur is not telling you is that in every criminal case you must remove every reasonable hypothesis of innocence.
AIDALA: Megyn Kelly.
EIGLARSH: It questioned her.
AIDALA: Did you.4
EIGLARSH: The law enforcement did -- excuse me, Arthur. They questioned her at link, the day of the shootings, and they didn't arrest her. They believe.
KELLY: It's not over. They're looking into her.
(CROSSTALK)
EIGLARSH: They should.
KELLY: I got to go. We're out of time. We're not done with the mother, that's for sure, but we're done with those two guys. Don't go away. A survivors account, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, a story of heroism in the face of terror. As a survivor from last week's deadly shootings shares how her co-worker gave his life to save hers, and the way she plans to honor his sacrifice. Trace Gallagher has the story from our west coast newsroom, Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER: Megyn, Ronald Reagan once said heroes may not be braver than anyone else. They're just braver five minutes longer. It's an apt description of 45-year-old Shannon Johnson, who when he found himself sitting at a table laughing with 27-year-old Denise Peraza. The next minute they were huddled beneath the same table, using a chair to block a barrage of bullets. In the seconds that followed, Peraza can vividly recall the horror, as well as the kindness of a man who held her as close as possible behind that chair. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENISE PERAZA, SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTING SURVIVOR: He just put his arm around me, and he said, "I got you."
CECILIA VEGA, ABC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He saved you.
PERAZA: He did. I don't think he realized it at the time. He even thought a second about it. He just did it, instinctively. They say that he didn't just save me, he saved our whole family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Peraza's family calls him an angel of a man, a man who lost his life that morning. Denise Peraza, who was hit by a bullet in the back, says she knows there were other heroes in the room, but she only remembers hers. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERAZA: Obviously, I was very scared. You only see these things in the movies, you know, gunpowder smell, I'll never forget it, never. I'm so glad I was sitting with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: In a statement of the L.A. Times, Peraza sent a picture of Shannon Johnson wearing sunglasses. She wrote, "This is Shannon Johnson who will be deeply missed by all. This is Shannon Johnson, my friend, my hero." She will name her first child after Shannon Johnson - Megyn.
KELLY: Wow. Trace, thank you.
And we remember Shannon Johnson and all the victims in San Bernardino here tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: We have a huge lineup for you tomorrow night, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, former FBI assistant director James Kallstrom is here, Al-Qaeda infiltrator former Morten Storm, Stirewalt, Perino, Dana Loesch -- good lordly, Christmas. DVR it, thanks for watching. I'm Megyn Kelly.
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