This is a rush transcript from "MediaBuzz," April 25, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): What was striking about the conviction of Derek Chauvin was that virtually no one in the media argued that he was actually innocent in the murder of George Floyd. We all heard the witnesses. We all saw the nine-and-a-half minute video.
What was also striking was that Democratic leaders felt comfortable declaring or insinuating that Chauvin was guilty before the verdict and warning of the consequences of a failure to convict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): We're looking for a guilty verdict. We've got to get more active. We've got to get more confrontational.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Praying the verdict is the right verdict. It's overwhelming, in my view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): That didn't exactly stir the same level of controversy as when Donald Trump proclaimed the innocence of some of his allies.
But while the media celebration of the verdict -- and that's the right word -- set the tone, the pundits quickly pivoted to a broader debate about racism in America. Now you have some on the left saying this verdict means nothing because police, in general, are fine with attacking and killing African-Americans, which goes way too far.
And you have some commentators on the right saying this is an isolated incident that says nothing about police departments condoning excessive force. And that is off base as well.
This is a very raw historical moment. And perhaps, just perhaps the media could tone down the overheated rhetoric.
I'm Howard Kurtz and this is MEDIA BUZZ.
On the liberal side, there's a divide between those who are thrilled by the Derek Chauvin conviction and those who are essentially dismissing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I had tears that were inside. I had to do TV so I couldn't have them out, but I wasn't -- it was a combination of tears of relief and tears of sadness.
JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR, PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM AND POLITICS AT MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY, CONTRIBUTOR FOR THEGRIO: This is a make-up call. This is the justice system trying to say that hey, this is one bad apple, because that's how this is going to be interpreted. It's going to be this one bad apple, he got in trouble, yea, blah, blah, blah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): On the conservative side, the focus is on what Laura Ingraham calls the big lie by left-wing media and activists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: They are not focused on the tragedy of George Floyd, because for them, he was just a stepping stone to tearing down America. They have to convince all Black Americans that the police hate them and will never be fair to them.
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: The jury in the Derek Chauvin trial came to a unanimous and unequivocal verdict this afternoon. Please don't hurt us. Everyone understood perfectly well the consequences of an acquittal in this case.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at The Federalist. And in Los Angeles, Leslie Marshall, the radio talk show host. Both are Fox News contributors.
Mollie, what do you make of some liberal and African-American commentators saying this case means nothing, it's a blip, we have to wipe out years and years of police racism and brutality against Black people?
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, SENIOR EDITOR AT THE FEDERALIST, SENIOR JOURNALISM FELLOW AT HILLSDALE COLLEGE: Seems there have been a couple problem with -- well, many problems with media coverage of this horrible case. One is that there hasn't been respect for rule of law by many people in the media. Rule of law is very important. Having trials is very important, weighing evidence, coming to decisions.
They've also done a really bad job of talking about the role of race in this and what happens when you attack police. They've asserted without evidence that there is -- that this is really an issue of racism.
They haven't talked about the pullback on policing that we've experienced in the last year and how much that has increased really bad rates of crime, homicide, other violent crime, and it's targeting those communities not where media elites live, but where vulnerable people live and where they are most likely to suffer from a lack of policing or a pullback of policing.
KURTZ: Leslie, what do you make of some conservative commentators saying that yes, Derek Chauvin is guilty, but this is a one off -- the left is just trying to paint every police department in America as filled with racist thugs?
LESLIE MARSHALL, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, that's not true, and the numbers don't bear that to be true, Howie. I mean, African-American males are disproportionately not only apprehended and incarcerated but killed at the hands of police. We have seen many cases where regardless of your political ideology, Eric Garner, when he said he could not breathe, there are many that were surprised there were no indictments, there were no charges, there were no guilty verdicts.
You know, but this is -- this is different because the world saw with that video a man die, and I think it's very difficult for another human being to watch another human being die, quite frankly. And I think the outrage erased and blurred the political lines thankfully, if you will, but this is a beginning.
Look, there are those in the African-American community that I've talked to on my radio show, Howie, that say this is not justice even though Mr. Floyd's brother said it is justice --
KURTZ: Right.
MARSHALL: -- and they do consider it the beginning and a stepping stone because they have not been successful in having a guilty verdict in the past when officers have --
KURTZ: Well --
MARSHALL: -- been brought to courts for this when you look at the numbers.
KURTZ (on camera): I just want to underscore the point that most police officers in America are honest and fair-minded. They risk their lives every day on behalf of us. Now, Kamala Harris and Joe Biden came out and spoke after the verdict. Let's take a look at what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: It was a murder in full light of day and it ripped the blinders off for the whole world to see the systemic racism the vice president just referred to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Mollie, the media generally gave Biden positive remarks for saying this is a giant step forward but we need to do more, and by the way, let's pass the democratic legislation on police reform.
HEMINGWAY: Well, Biden spoke before the verdict was even announced saying he hoped for a guilty verdict. You also played Maxine Waters talking about the need for riots if the verdict weren't what she preferred the verdict would be.
We've had a problem with public officials weighing in on jury trials for a long time. I think Richard Nixon weighed in on the Charles Manson trial, you know, while it was ongoing. We saw the media freaked out when Donald Trump did it.
They did not do that in the case with Biden even though the judge had said such weighing in was abhorrent. And then the speech after the verdict, which was so divisive, just so -- it was really shocking to listen to how he talk about how America is a racist hell hole and that police are creating a racist dystopia where Black people can't walk down the street.
That's not true. That's not actually what America is, which is the greatest country in the world for all people, Black, white, and otherwise. And the media were so gentle with him even though it was this really, you know, really divisive and shockingly hateful speech about what America is. They gave him high marks because of their political persuasion.
KURTZ: Let me get your response, Leslie, and also we had Kamala Harris, the first Black vice president in American history, saying this is a problem meeting the larger questions of police and violence and racism, a problem for all Americans, not just people of color.
MARSHALL: It is. I mean, quite frankly, we were watching different speeches, Mollie, no surprise. You know, I didn't find it hateful and I didn't find it divisive. I don't think right men -- they came out with the right verdict. I think he meant a just verdict which, quite frankly, if you look at the polls, majority of Americans agreed with. And I think we need to give juries more credit.
KURTZ: Wait a minute. When you say -- when you say just verdict, I certainly don't disagree. I don't think most people in America disagree. But the president was clearly signalling that in his mind, the right verdict was a guilty verdict before the jury had reached its verdict.
MARSHALL: Right. And he has that opinion and presidents like him and in the past, as Mollie said, all the way --
KURTZ: But that doesn't make it right. That was a mistake. It was a misstep, and it's been a misstep by other presidents as well, no?
MARSHALL: Well, if you're asking my opinion, no, I disagree with you. I definitely disagree with you because there are presidents that weigh in. We certainly heard Barack Obama weighed in on Trayvon Martin. And whether the -- and the press will sometimes tear a president apart or applaud a president. I don't think it is necessarily based on their ideology.
Again, I don't think that it was just people on the left or Democrats that watched that video and felt that Derek Chauvin was guilty. And I want to talk about the jury very quickly. I live in Los Angeles. We had riots here and the jury knew that was a possibility when they acquitted those police officers in the trial with Rodney King. And they knew that. They didn't make a decision based in fear. We have to give jurors more credit --
KURTZ: OK.
MARSHALL: Remember, the prosecution has the burden of proof, but the defense has to have a very strong -- a very strong case themselves. They did in Los Angeles, obviously. They didn't in this case, in Derek Chauvin trial.
KURTZ: This has to show this reasonable doubt. You set me up for my next question. Mollie, a colleague of yours at The Federalist wrote it's extremely hard to believe the jury was solely concerned with either truth or justice. This is the sort of conservative media critique that the jury was pressured into this verdict. But how does that square with the video and the other evidence that people on both sides seem to believe showed pretty clearly that Derek Chauvin was guilty?
HEMINGWAY: Right. It is two separate issues. I think a lot of people, most people, the vast majority of people, look at that video and they weigh the evidence and they do think that the guilty verdict is a more than reasonable and fair verdict.
It is different than saying that that is a free and fair trial. And we do need to care so much about whether -- whether people who are accused get free and fair trials. That's something that is the bedrock of civilization.
There was a local broadcast media outlet in Minnesota that I thought did a great job. They interviewed what turned out to be an alternate juror. She didn't know she would be an alternate until the very end.
KURTZ: Mm-hmm.
HEMINGWAY: They reviewed her noted. She said that she felt that if they did not deliver a guilty verdict, she was worried about violent riots. She was worried about people targeting her home. That's what we're talking about. That does not produce a free and fair trial even when you agree with the outcome of this particular trial.
You don't want to create a system where people feel like pressuring people through riots and mob action is OK. It's not OK. It's the end of civilization. It has nothing to do with this particular verdict, but what we think about jury trials and the presumption of innocence until guilt is proven.
KURTZ: Well, the context of that alternate juror's remark was about her reluctance to serve. Obviously, she didn't end up serving the jury for fear of violence. And it's a fair point to bring up.
And yet we mentioned Maxine Waters. We showed the congresswoman at the top. Leslie, she didn't say there would be riots. She said if Chauvin gets off, the protesters would need to be more confrontational, which a lot of people thought was a code word. And there was a lot of media coverage of the judge in the trial admonishing her and saying this could lead to the verdict being tossed out on appeal.
MARSHALL: I have to tell you, Howie, when I first saw -- I don't respect violence of any kind, I don't condone violence of any kind, and certainly not when you have anybody in political office even tiptoeing along that line. I didn't -- I didn't appreciate the word become, you know, more confrontational and the word was confrontational.
But I also didn't appreciate the judge singling her out because, you know, across media, you had people on both the left and the right weighing in on this, you had other politicians weighing in on this, and they may not have used the word confrontational, but to me, I kind of started to have an idea of the political leanings of that judge. And one should always be looking at a judge, no matter what courtroom they're in as completely impartial. Justice --
KURTZ: All right.
MARSHALL: -- is supposed to be blind.
KURTZ: I've got a half minute for each of you. Mollie, will the media look back on the George Floyd trial and the case and his killing as a turning point in terms of public opinion on this question of police excessive force against minorities?
HEMINGWAY: Well, the media will look at that. I'm not sure if it will be as much in the real world where this was really a story of taking a really horrible situation and good things coming out of it. It was good that there was a trial. It was good that the jury was able to weigh the evidence. It is good that people might be held accountable.
There's always room for improvement in policing. What is bad is the media have completely lied about the actual nature of policing. How many interactions police have that they are able to handle in such good ways and the importance of having policing in vulnerable communities, which is at risk now with the defund and abolish the police movements?
KURTZ: Isn't part of the story, Leslie, also the protests and the riots and left-wing violence which President Biden did mention in his speech disapprovingly, isn't that part of the legacy of this trial as well?
MARSHALL: Yes, but I have to tell you, if over the summer in Portland, there was an individual from Antifa, as people like to say which is a concept and not an actual group, had their knee on somebody's neck and the video went viral, I think the outrage would be the same --
KURTZ: All right.
MARSHALL: I think there would be a trial. I would hope the outcome --
KURTZ: By the way, MSNBC had Al Sharpton on, listing him as an anchor, constantly commenting on this trial. But then, on a press conference, Sharpton was there. He was a spokesman for the family and I just don't understand why he is able to play both roles. You're either an activist or you're part of the media commenting.
Ahead, Mike Huckabee joins the program. When we come back, reporters try to get the White House to admit that Joe Biden bow to liberal pressure on admitting more refugees. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): White House reporters have repeatedly pressed Jen Psaki on why President Biden adopted Donald Trump's low standard in deciding to admit just 15,000 legal refugees for the coming year, especially after Biden reversed himself under pressure from liberal Democrats and promised to raise the cap in a few weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: What changed between 1 p.m. on Friday and around 4:30 p.m. on Friday to go from we're not raising the refugee cap to we are raising it by May 15th?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): The press secretary repeatedly told correspondents this wasn't a change in position at all but finally gave some ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We wanted to send a clear message we are a country that is welcoming refugees. We recognized that that is not the message that was sent, and so we reassessed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Mollie Hemingway, we do have some reporters pressing the White House about this Washington Post, White House changed its story six times in three weeks, but should this be a bigger story?
HEMINGWAY: You said in the previous segment that Al Sharpton was blending the lines between being an activist and being a member of the media as if that's not what everybody in the media is doing these days, the way they've turned into being -- many of them being members of propaganda unit as opposed to media.
Seems this was a big issue for the media in part because Joe Biden has been so far to the left on so many issues. This was the first time that he hadn't joined with this propaganda media in being so far in the left. He was keeping the refugee limit the same as Trump.
That's the only way that they can be critical of him. We've seen it in their press conferences. We've seen it in their coverage. They are sycophantic and effusive in praising him unless he isn't on one issue being as far to the left as they are. And of course, they got him to heel by badgering him.
But we need a media that actually thinks about the rest of the country and how the rest of the country is concerned about a border that is spiralling out of control, about facilities that are at 1,700 percent capacity with children urinating into bags because they can't have access to restrooms.
The same corporate media, the propaganda unit that said that what happened under Trump was the worst humanitarian crisis in American history --
KURTZ: OK.
HEMINGWAY: -- can't be bothered to really address these issues even as it's so much dramatically worse under Biden.
KURTZ: Leslie, the president says he's worried about not having the resources to process illegal refugees because of what's happening at the border. What do you think of Mollie's point that the only sharp criticism the press comes against President Biden when he's not being far enough to the left?
MARSHALL: Oh, I don't agree with that. I mean, quite frankly, you had the press calling him out. You had an anchor on CNN said let's be clear, this is a crisis. You had AOC and others on the left and not just the far left, but even moderates, you know, at the border calling him out on what they felt was a hypocritical stance on the children and how they were being not just taken care of, but where they were being taken care of at the border.
But I want to respond to bowing to liberal pressure. If you remember in the campaign repeatedly, the president said that he was going to lift the refugee number to 125,000. He said that repeatedly, OK? Then he reduced it to 62,500. Then he reduced it to 15,000. Now, it is going to be 62,500 again.
So if he bowed to the liberal pressure, if he bowed to the far-left faction of my party, well, then they pretty much failed because the number he originally quoted has practically been cut in half.
KURTZ: Well, I just want to clarify that they came out and Jen Psaki defended the 15,000 and only after there was uproar they say they were going to increase it. They haven't given the exact number.
I want to get you both in on question about the media coverage. We've all been saying, wow, this is such a disciplined White House, no leaks. Well, Washington Post reporting, Mollie, Biden overruled his secretary of state, Tony Blinken, despite a personal appeal based on his own family's history as refugees and called this a botched policy rollout. So we're starting to get an inside look at some of the disagreements in this administration.
HEMINGWAY: Sure. There is a little bit of interesting, you know, what's happening at the White House, but it seems like probably what the Biden administration is doing, is trying to avoid responsibility for the fact that the problems at the border are a direct result of the rhetoric and policies of the Biden administration. The problems began with Biden saying he wouldn't enforce border security.
And this is a -- this is -- there's so much more interesting stuff for the media to be talking about than who's leaking. They spent the entire campaign claiming that Joe Biden would be a moderate and a unifier and that he was necessary because of how divisive the Trump administration had been.
We're not even a hundred days into this, and this has been just an unbelievable left lurch for this administration that the media claimed would be moderate. Every leftist policy idea being put forward even though there's a tie in the Senate, six-vote majority in the House, and the presidential election came down to 42,000 votes in three states.
KURTZ: All right.
HEMINGWAY: This isn't a guy who has a mandate, and yet the media are treating it as if it's OK that he is lurching everybody to the left and doing this sort of culture war annihilation approach. I think a lot of people would like a media that focused on just how much dramatically worse this is than they even imagined it would be.
KURTZ: I just want to get Leslie on this question of leaks because Politico reported this. Top White House officials have grown increasingly frustrated with health Secretary Xavier Becerra. Officials privately questioned his preparedness for managing such a sprawling emergency at the border. Becerra's spokesman says that is unfair and inaccurate. But a lot of finger pointing is going on in this issue.
MARSHALL: Well, it was going on before, you know, he was confirmed to his position. If you remember years back, he actually helped to manage different crises and quite frankly, you know, Mollie said, you know, about the first hundred days of the president's presidency, you know, my opinion is, you know, whether it's a Republican or Democrat, you can't truly say they were a divider or uniter. You know, of course people are going to throughout, but until the four years is past or their term is done, I mean --
KURTZ: Well, OK -- the media are not going to wait four years to make these judgments but I appreciate --
MARSHALL: No, I know that --
KURTZ: I got to go.
MARSHALL: -- But I'm saying --
KURTZ: OK, I got to go. Mollie and Leslie, thanks very much. Up next, how the press is covering the declining rate of COVID vaccinations. And later, the stunningly positive coverage of President Biden's aggressive action on climate change.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): A Fox News poll out today says 81 percent of Americans believe COVID-19 is completely, mostly or somewhat under control. That may be one reason the rate of vaccinations is slowing down. President Biden made another plea for people to get their shots even as he celebrated passing the mark of 200 million doses administered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: No matter what your health history, until you are fully vaccinated, you are still vulnerable. The vaccine can save your life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now, Mike Emanuel, Fox's chief Washington correspondent. As you know, the pace of vaccinations has dropped about 11 percent even with three million people a day still getting these shots. The press keeps reporting on this problem. Republicans is the most reluctant group. But there's a certain Groundhog Day quality to the story.
MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Howie, good day to you. No question about it. And the problem with the vaccinations is multifaceted. One thing is the supply is slowing down in some parts of the country which makes it more difficult to get appointments. Another big factor I would say is probably the way the government handled the J&J vaccine.
A lot of folks, millions of folks have gotten -- 6.8 million as a matter of fact have gotten one dose, they are covered, and they're good to go. Six people got blood clots, women. And I'm not minimizing what they went through, but to all of a sudden slam the brakes on the J&J vaccine, now many Americans are probably looking at the J&J vaccine saying, well, I don't want that one. I'll wait for Pfizer or Moderna. And so that may also slow down the rate of vaccination which is part of the problem.
KURTZ: Right. The president is talking about giving employers tax breaks to give workers time off to get their shots. The White House has put Anthony Fauci and the head of NIH and the surgeon general on Fox News to reach a broader audience. I think the media generally support these efforts. People are entitled to make their own decisions. But you don't want to sound too preachy, perhaps.
EMANUEL: Well, you're right. And I think, look, you also have to give folks incentive. If you're telling the American people once you get vaccinated, you're still got to wear a double mask, millions of Americans are saying, I want my life back, I want to get back to going to the ballpark, I want to go back to going to restaurants, I want to go out hugging and kissing people that I know and love.
And so I think you have to look closely at what your messaging is about what the incentive is of getting the vaccination. If it's you're going to get your life back, you're going to be able to do what you want to do, then I think a lot of people will probably jump in and say, that's great, or to protect people around me, great. But if your message is you're going to have to double mask or whatever --
KURTZ: Yeah.
EMANUEL: -- and stay in your corner, stay locked up, then what's the point?
KURTZ: Mike Emanuel is pro-hugging and kissing. That is a great point which sets me up for pressure from the left. Slate magazine reports, do we really need to wear still masks outside?
EMANUEL: Right.
KURTZ: New England Journal of Medicine agrees, experts agree, New York Times agree, very low risk. People on Twitter, some of them said shallow and selfish take. You have blood on your hands because they don't want these restrictions eased.
EMANUEL: Well, I think, you know, that's tapping into, in terms of the take the mask off thing, I think that's tapping into what millions of Americans are feeling. It's been more than a year.
You know, initially it was said wearing a mask for a few weeks will bend the curve and and now it's been a year plus and these things are looking more and more permanent. And so I think a lot of us want to be able to ditch them and slate was tapping into that, but they've gotten a backlash. And so --
KURTZ: You and me both. By the way, in a Fox poll, President Biden gets 54 percent approval, but 95 percent of Democrats, just 14 percent of Republicans giving him high marks. That's a bigger partisan gap than even under Donald Trump at that time.
Mike, always great to see you. Thanks so much.
EMANUEL: Thank you, Howie.
KURTZ: Ahead, a look at the coverage of the Ohio police shooting of a 16- year-old girl mounting a knife attack. But next of MEDIA BUZZ, former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee -- there he is -- is standing by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): Here's a Washington Post headline from the other day, world leaders pledge to cut emissions, thanked Biden for leading. That followed the president's declaration to a virtual climate change summit that the U.S. will cut its greenhouse gas emissions in half by the end of this decade.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No nation can solve this crisis on our own, as I know you all fully understand. All of us, all of us and particularly those of us who represent the world's largest economies, we have to step up.
CHRIS HAYES, HOST, MSNBC: Instruction from Republicans keeps leading to this kind of oscillating wave on American climate policy between too little action and then just complete nihilistic denialism.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: He refused to confront Beijing over their heavy pollution, their emissions all while lecturing you, we, the American people, how we need to do more, need to make major sacrifices for the sake of the planet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now from Little Rock is Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor and presidential candidate. And the Biden White House must have been pleased by that Washington Post headline and this second paragraph from the New York Times news story, the contrast between Biden and his science-denying predecessor, Donald Trump, could not have been more striking. What's your take on the coverage?
MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, if it's such a scientific approach, why the heck was Joe Biden wearing a mask on a Zoom call? I mean, that's got to be one of the most unscientific things I think I've ever seen in my life. It was embarrassment.
But let's look at the reality of climate change. You have little kids who are being scared to death on this dooms day scenario that if we don't basically go down to a cheeseburger a month, we're all going to die. Howard, it's just not true. There's been a lot of emotional hype that is been injected into this. The truth is we are getting better, America is the greenest it's ever been, and we're getting there, quite frankly, pretty rapidly.
But for those who want to say we're going to get to a completely green society in less than 10 years, that's like me saying we're going to have a weight loss program where you can lose 80 pounds in one hour. And you can do it, just cut off your leg. You'll be fine. You'll lose the weight, but you won't like the way you do it. And that's going to be back to be confronted.
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: Right. Well let me jump in because --
HUCKABEE: OK.
KURTZ: -- let me jump in. The press eventually gets around to saying, well, there could be lost jobs, obviously the oil and gas industries. Biden is talking about green energy jobs, talking about China, India also not promising any new targets, but are you saying that the press is going along with this what you might describe as an overly dramatic apocalyptic take on what will happen if we don't do these things?
HUCKABEE: Absolutely, he is. He is making that this is the single most --
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: Is the press -- is the press adopting that line?
HUCKABEE: They're cheerleading it. I mean, they're out there in cheerleader suits with pom-poms. But the three things that will govern when we will get to a place where we're more climate conscious, number one, is going to be the technology to make it where it's efficient. Number two, it's going to be the economics of it so that it's efficient without breaking the banks of every family and busting their budgets.
And the third is that we still have the convenience of living life. I don't think many people want to go back to getting rid of air-conditioning, but we could do that. In fact, here's one way we could get to solar and wind immediately, get rid of all closed dryers and go back to clothes lines in the backyard like I had when I was a kid. That was solar and wind. We could go back to that, but I don't know too many families who are excited about it.
KURTZ: Probably wouldn't poll very well. So, let me get -- we talked last segment about people, particularly many Republicans being reluctant to get the COVID vaccine. I want to get your thoughts on that. The former president, Donald Trump called the New York Post columnist, Michael Goodwin and said people should get the vaccine. And he told Sean Hannity this week he's being asked to make a public service at urging vaccinations. Should he?
HUCKABEE: I think it would be great if he did. I mean, he had the vaccine, Melania had it, most of the people in his cabinet had it. Heck, I've had it, my wife has it. I don't know that it's a Republican thing. I find that there are a lot of liberal people who are anti-vaxxers who don't want the vaccine. But there's a couple of things that I think would really help.
Number one it would help is, if the Biden administration would acknowledge President Trump's role in Operation Warp Speed to get the vaccine. Number two, I wish they would repent of some of the things they said just before the election when both Joe Biden and Kamala Harris said they might not take a vaccine that was associated with Donald Trump. That was very hurtful.
And then they got to have a new message rather than take the vaccine but then don't go anywhere, don't do anything, wear a mask all over your face, keep the face diapered for the next 10 years, and you tell people that, what's the point of the vaccine if I've still got to lock down and not even have more than four people in my backyard for a hot dog dinner?
KURTZ: Yes, there's got to be some sort of reward for doing this and I think the science are showing that it's now safe certainly outdoors, at least.
The Derek Chauvin trial, there's been a big debate, as you know, about police and racism in America, and you noted this on Twitter to Congresswoman Maxine Waters pronouncing Chauvin guilty before the verdict and saying protesters should get confrontational if not. And you said, yikes, if a conservative said this stuff, Twitter and Facebook would ban them for life. Was that, were you serious about this? You think this shows bias by the tech giants?
HUCKABEE: I'm sure I'm being cynical. I mean, Twitter, we know, is such an unbiased platform. They equally treat everybody on all sides of the political spectrum. Of course, they would have banned a conservative. I mean, that's pretty evident. They banned Donald Trump for life on both Twitter and Facebook.
LeBron James comes out and makes the most outrageous statement, basically doxing a police officer who save the girl's life and he gets nothing, not even a reprimand, not even three days in Twitter jail over it.
So, we're not stupid. We can see how this plays. Maxine Waters should have been censured by the House. She wasn't. They all stood behind her. But it's embarrassing for somebody to, before a verdict, get out in front of a jury --
KURTZ: Right.
HUCKABEE: -- and make statements like she made.
KURTZ: Right. That was mostly a party line vote on a Republican proposal. Always good to see you, Mike Huckabee, thanks for joining us from your native state of Arkansas.
HUCKABEE: You bet. Thanks, Howie.
KURTZ: I want to take a moment to talk about the 25th anniversary today of Fox News Sunday. Congratulations to Chris Wallace. He's really become synonymous with asking tough questions of both sides. So many highlights were shown on the program. And we had some cake here at the Washington bureau for Chris, I'm on kind of a sugar high because I had too much cake.
After the break, the teenage girl whose video was the centerpiece of the George Floyd murder trial and a controversial police shooting in Columbus. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): New York Times, The Washington Post and other media outlets have been praising a teenage girl as the heroine of the George Floyd trial. Darnella Frazier took out her phone and recorded Derek Chauvin's assault on Floyd and later testified that he could have been any of her Black relatives or friends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARNELLA FRAZIER, WITNESS: It's been nights I stayed up apologizing and apologizing to George Floyd for not doing more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now, Harold Ford, the former Democratic Congressman and now a Fox News contributor.
Harold, Daniela -- Darnell Frazier told the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the world needed to see what I was seeing. Stuff like this happens in silence too many times. If she hadn't shot that video and put it on Facebook, would Derek Chauvin have even been charged, let alone convicted of murder?
HAROLD FORD, JR., FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: You know, thanks for having me on and for the congratulations. I think the fact that we're even asking that question suggests that the answer could be he may not have been charged, and he certainly may not have been convicted.
I believe the verdict was the right verdict. And I think it's now time for the political bodies and particularly the president and some in the Senate, Democrat, Republican to come together and try to find some bipartisan solution around police training and police accountability. It seems like the elements are there.
If you believe our polling this morning from Fox and even from some other outlets, the president did get some high marks in some places, and I think it's now time to travel down a path as quickly as he can to try to find bipartisan support. Police accountability would be one and infrastructure would hopefully be two.
But without that video, I think it's very likely we would not be sitting here today with a conviction of a police officer who killed someone in the street.
KURTZ: And here's why I think you're right. The Minneapolis Police Department put out a release before the video surface, saying that a man in custody died after a medical incident during police interaction. Now weapons were used. Police noticed his medical distress and took him to the hospital. Didn't even used his name. That was a lie and perhaps that lie would have stood.
But what do you think of the argument being made by some conservative commentators that the jurors felt pressured into convicting the former police officer because they were concerned that there would be protests and riots and violence from the left if he got off?
FORD: You know, I don't buy the argument and, frankly, I'm a little bewildered and find confusing why people who say they're of goodwill and good intention would make that argument. The video was so overwhelming. Then the trial took place, and we all as Americans had a right to reach an opinion on it including politicians.
President Trump certainly shared his views when he was president. Politicians today in office do the same. I think the evidence is what convicted Derek Chauvin, plain and simple.
KURTZ: Let me talk about this situation in Columbus. There's been a lot of media attention to a Columbus officer fatally shooting a 16-year-old girl, Ma'Khia Bryant. Terrible tragedy. But body cam footage shows seems to support the police account, that she was attacking another girl with a knife, the officer said four times to get down. There's a neighbor's security camera that shows her, Bryant saying to the other girl I'm going to stab the f out of you.
Was there a media rush to judgment that the officer in this case had done something terrible before we had all the facts?
FORD: There looks like it. You know, this video here, this is all the video there is, it's certainly strongly suggests that the officer made a decision that could be justified. We'll wait for all the facts to come out, but I think your question really yells at when people make comments about things before all the facts are in, once those facts are in, we should all do the responsible thing and either retract, recant or explain, or if it turns out to be the right, reinforce your position.
There's nothing wrong being wrong. What's wrong being wrong is when you don't acknowledge it. And this video here suggests that maybe, maybe there was a rush, and anyone that rushed to the wrong judgment, at least at the outset, should be willing to come forward and say, look, we didn't know all the facts.
KURTZ: Yes. I mean, I couldn't agree more. I think because this happened so soon after the verdict or around the same time, and it kind of fit the narrative, there was an effort to paint this police officer as some kind of a hothead or racist when, in fact, he was trying to save another life. And you know, our police officers have to make these split-second judgments.
Let me also ask you about the treatment of journalists because after another shooting, that of Daunte Wright, there were nightly demonstrations in Minnesota, and some of the stuff that happened, a Black New York Times photographer says police forced him out of his car, beat his legs and struck his camera.
A CNN producer was thrown to the ground, arrested, strip searched and asked -- she's Asian-American -- do you speak English. A federal judge step in issued a restraining order against further arrests and assaults. I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more attention even though it obviously is being overshadowed now by the Chauvin conviction.
FORD: Look, none of this is -- none of this is should -- none of this is anything anyone should support. We should not want anyone, police officers behaving towards any citizens this way and certainly not the press when they're doing their jobs.
Look, again, I think this is why this moment, this administration, this president, I think is uniquely situated to bring sides together to figure out how we bring about some calm and how we bring about some accountability that is measured and that is right.
We can't forget Derek Chauvin did a terrible thing, an awful act. He just happened to be a police officer.
KURTZ: Right.
FORD: He got the verdict that he deserved. We shouldn't hold all police officers -- good policing is the norm in our country and should be rewarded.
KURTZ: Right.
FORD: But where bad officers to be highlighted and they should be held accountable.
KURTZ: And with those words, I thank you, Harold Ford. Great to see you this Sunday. We appreciate it.
FORD: Thank you.
KURTZ: Still to come, that awful LeBron James tweet. Politico adopts the White House language on the border and an OAM a producer is fired after criticizing his network. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): The White House is still refusing to call the mess at the border a crisis even after President Biden slipped and used the term, and reporters have been pressing Jen Psaki about it for weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN: So how can you say that's not a crisis?
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president does not feel that children coming to our border seeking refuge from violence, economic hardships and other dire circumstances is a crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): But now Politico has decided to swear off the c word as well. In a memo reported by the Washington Examiner, staffers were told avoid referring to the president's -- present situation as a crisis. Although we may quote, "others using that language while providing context. While the sharp increase in arrival of unaccompanied minors is a problem for border officials a political challenge for the Biden administration and a dire situation for many migrants who make the journey, it does not fit the dictionary definition of a crisis."
A Politico spokeswoman is quoted as saying employees were just being given A.P.-style guidance. Though crisis did make it into one column headline. But with 14,000 unaccompanied minors having crossed the border, come on. Can you imagine that the Trump White House insisted some out of control disaster was not a crisis that news outlets would salute and go along?
LeBron James committed a hard foul and a dumb one in the case of that Columbus police officer who fatally shot 16-year-old Ma'Khia Bryant while she was attacking another girl with a knife. The L.A. Lakers though he could score points by tweeting a picture of the officer with the words you're next, hash tag accountability.
After being denounced for potentially encouraging violence against the cop, James deleted the tweet saying he's tired of seeing Black people killed by the police and it's not about this one officer except LeBron made it about this one officer who was trying to save another girl's life.
One America News fired a producer Marty Golingan the day after the New York Post -- New York Times, excuse me, publish his on the record criticism of his network. He said the majority of people at the network did not believe the voter fraud claims being run on the air and that the news director had reprimanded him for referring to Joe Biden as President Biden.
Golingan must have decided this would enable him to make a high-profile exit. Now the Times said 16 out of the 18 current and former OAN newsroom staffers interviewed said the channel had aired reports they believed to be misleading or untrue. Charles Herring, president of OAN's parent company said the network uses a review process with multiple checks and its investigation showed that voting irregularities took place last year. The question is to what extent.
Finally, NBC anchor Kristen Welker was keeping a secret back when she moderated the second Trump/Biden debate. And she just broke it on The Today show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN WELKER, HOST, MSNBC: John and I have struggled with infertility for years, and we are so excited to be able to announce that we, with the help of a surrogate, are expecting a baby girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): And why was she going public about the surrogate carrying her child?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WELKER: I think that when you know you're not alone, it helps you to wake up and put one foot in front of another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): That's got to be a hard thing to talk about on national television, so congratulations to Kristen. And congratulations again to Chris Wallace and the whole Fox News Sunday team, 25th anniversary, big little party here. Here we go. And I think you'll be on the air for many more years.
That's it for this edition of MEDIA BUZZ. I hope we make it to 25. We hope you'll also like our Facebook page. We post our daily columns there. And continuing the conversation on Twitter at Howard Kurtz. And if you are so inclined, check out my podcast, Media Buzz Meter. We talk about the day's hottest story and the coverage. You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, at Google Play or on your Amazon device.
I was talking to Chris about how nice it is to be back in the studio after all the home broadcasting. So many things can go wrong when you're just in your basement. Thankfully my team able to keep the show on the air. And now it's time to say we'll be back here next Sunday at 11 Eastern. We'll see you all then with the latest buzz.
Content and Programming Copyright 2021 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2021 VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.
Get all the stories you need-to-know from the most powerful name in news delivered first thing every morning to your inbox