Lawrence Jones on Biden picking Harris: Many of us called this months ago

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Lawrence Jones on Biden picking Harris: Many of us called this months ago

This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Neil Cavuto," August 11, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, now he knows. How soon will we know?

We're getting word right now that Joe Biden has indeed decided on a running mate. We just don't know who she is and how it was narrowed down. This is at a compound not too far from the former vice president's home in Wilmington, Delaware.

Again, we don't know much more, how much that list has been whittled down. We're told it is really down to two names, Kamala Harris and Susan Rice. There's no way of knowing for sure.

We're exploring this. An announcement could come very soon, perhaps at this hour.

Let's go join Jacqui Heinrich right now in Wilmington, Delaware, with the latest that she's hearing.

Hey, Jacqui.

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Neil.

Yes, this is probably the closest guarded secret in recent memory, at least for me. There are reports that Biden has made his choice and told his advisers who that woman is going to be that will join him on the ticket. We knew, as of last night, he had interviewed all of the serious contenders.

The V.P. vetting committee had weighed in on their favorites, and then disbanded. And the announcement could come anytime really. They were targeting maybe midweek, but earliest that it could possibly come was today.

Now, just a couple hours ago, L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti, who was a member of the V.P. vetting committee, told Dana Perino, if you want to take your dog out for a walk, you better stick pretty close to home, or you might risk missing this announcement.

Now, there are several finalists. They include at least six women of color, Senators Kamala Harris and Tammy Duckworth, Congresswomen Val Demings and Karen Bass, Susan Rice, and Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, but Senator Elizabeth Warren and Governor Gretchen Whitmer are also in contention.

Now, there's a CNN report out just a few moments ago that Karen Bass is out of the running, and Biden told her himself that she was not the pick.

Now, FOX, we do not have this on our own. I have been making calls to her team. They have not picked up. But that is the newest tidbit that's out there right now.

Now, earlier today, Delaware Senator Chris Coons appeared to inadvertently let some big news slip, saying the pick will make history, indicating that this V.P. will be a black woman, as there have been female running mates before. But he clarified by saying that the V.P. will make history through her leadership.

Now, there's been some activity this morning at the Hotel du Pont in Wilmington, members of Biden's advance team going in and out, some vendors that the campaign has been using milling around the building, and also some supporters lingering nearby. And that is the very place where Biden announced his 1972 Senate necessary.

So, eyes are on that location for a possible spot to hear this announcement -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Jacqui Heinrich, thank you very, very much.

For those of you just trying to follow this process, you might remember the enormous pressure the former vice president was under. About 100 African- American leaders, by the way, had sent him out a letter of warning him that he would lose the election if he did not pick an African-American woman to join him on the ticket.

That's the kind of signal that they were trying to say. A woman won't just cut it. It has to be an African-American woman.

Bret Baier, my colleague and friend, joins me right now.

Bret, the timing of this and the pressure around this, for the former vice president, it doesn't get any more intense than that, does it?

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: No, that's right. And it's a big choice. It's really the biggest choice in the short term that he faces.

And it's a big part of how this election comes together. Now, in the big election run-up, this will get a lot of coverage for the short term, but then the focus will be on that first general election debate. And that will take the meat of the substance of this election, I think, this time around, Neil.

Just a couple of things. One is, being told that that event possibly at that hotel that Jacqui mentioned is going to be tomorrow. I'm being told that by people in and around that hotel. So, the nomination -- or the announcement of the V.P. nominee will probably come, like Barack Obama did with Joe Biden, and that is via text.

We will get a text message. It'll go out. And then the news will be out there.

Interestingly enough, I was told by someone with ties to Biden world that it had come down to Susan Rice and Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. And that is what spurred the African-American pushback to say -- and Whitmer met with Joe Biden face to face, and that letter that you just referenced.

So, in this thing, it's a parlor game. Everybody has sources. But that's what I have heard.

CAVUTO: Talking about more of the parlor game or chicken and entrails game here, the fact that Susan Rice was not listed on the list of speakers for the Democratic Convention next week, all the other prominent names were, and some people read into that, well, that must mean she is his pick.

BAIER: Yes, I mean, there's too clever by half, right, Neil.

I mean, you leave her off...

CAVUTO: Right.

BAIER: ... and she becomes the focus.

Maybe there's -- there's all kinds of surprises. I think the biggest surprise would be if Michelle Obama said yes to a V.P. nomination.

CAVUTO: No.

BAIER: But I don't think that that's in the cards, but we will see.

We will find out this afternoon, because all of the folks, including Mayor Garcetti with Dana Perino, saying, don't take the dog for the walk too long.

CAVUTO: Yes, I hear you.

If, indeed, he does not pick an African-American woman -- and this letter at least from 100 black leaders, we are going to discuss with Don Peebles, a close Obama confidant, a big money-raiser for Democrats, how will that go?

I mean, they have already threatened and warned, if it's not an African- American woman, a woman won't cut it, you could lose this thing.

That's a lot of heavy pressure.

BAIER: I mean, that's a bold call to say, especially if you look at the polls about African-American support for the former vice president.

But the Trump campaign, before all of the social unrest, and before George Floyd, really felt confident that they were starting to inch forward in getting some African-American support in black communities.

And only one, two, three, four points really makes a huge difference when it comes to some of these states.

On the flip side, Gretchen Whitmer might get you Michigan sewed up and maybe Wisconsin in more of a regional play. So, that's one to look at.

CAVUTO: If the vice president were to go for a non-African-American woman, he never said that he would pick an African-American, just that it would be a woman.

Would it -- would it assure that he has a greater share of the female vote? I mean, that's obviously what they're counting on. College-educated females and the rest have been a very important constituency for the Democratic Party, I would imagine more so with such a pick.

But it's anyone's guess, I guess.

BAIER: It is.

And it's also about, can that person be president? Joe Biden presents an interesting political analysis. If you look at him, if he is 78 when he takes -- if he wins the election, he will be at inaugurated at 78 years old. It's not likely that he's going to go for a second term if he won reelection.

So, that person in that slot takes on more prominence. And, really, the examination is, can that person be president of the United States? And that's the test, the biggest test, that that person has to get over.

CAVUTO: Yes, I used to think that 78 was old, Bret, but the closer I get to that age myself, and then forgetting about what I had for breakfast today...

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: ... the less I think it's impactful.

Bret, thank you so much. We might corral you again if we get word.

Bret Baier, I have a feeling this will come up once or twice on "Special Report" less than two hours from now.

A man who knows this process very well, the former Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman -- of course, he was Al Gore's running mate in 2000 -- joins us right now.

Senator, the nominee knows. The pick knows. How soon do you think the rest of the world knows?

FORMER SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I-CT): Good to be with you, Neil.

CAVUTO: Same here.

LIEBERMAN: Well, I would say soon.

I mean, the convention, such as it is, because it's so unconventional in the midst of the pandemic, starts next week. So, the choice, this is a good time to make it.

I was selected in 2000 on the Tuesday before the Monday when the convention convened. So, this is just about right.

It's a really exciting time for the nominee. I mean, when you get into the fire three or four, all along the way, you have said to yourself, I can't believe this is going to happen to me. I don't think it will happen.

Then you get in the final three or four, and you really want it to be you. So, whoever's heard about it that they're going to be chosen is really pretty excited, and their life is going to change.

I mean, for me, people would say, what was it like? I said, it was like being on a magic carpet from August through Election Day. And then, afterward, we had that little recount in Florida, but that was another story altogether.

CAVUTO: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Oh, that's right. I forgot about that.

(LAUGHTER)

LIEBERMAN: Yes.

CAVUTO: Senator, much has been made that when you pick a running mate, the first goal is to do no harm.

And, obviously, that is a big concern with some of the lesser known names the vice president was considering, that you really want to go with someone who's been well-vetted.

That might explain why Kamala Harris gets a great deal of attention, Susan Rice, well-known national names that had been on the national stage and clearly vetted on that stage.

How important is that? I mean, you had certainly that going for you, as a well-known name, the senator, the first Jewish American put on a ticket. That was a big deal then. But you were a known quantity. How important is that in this process?

LIEBERMAN: I think it's important.

And I think, while in days past, it was probably true that the selection for vice president, it was important not only that it do no harm, but I think, in more recent times, putative candidates, the ones who know they're going to be nominated by the convention, really see the selection of the vice presidential candidate as an opportunity to say something about themselves to the voters.

Who -- who do they put into a position or heartbeat away from the presidency? And was it somebody up to the task?

And then the second thing, obviously, is that there are moments when the vice presidential candidate is very important. I would say there are three big moments. The first one is probably going to happen in the next 24 hours.

So, get ready It's when the candidate is announced. What's the first impression of that candidate? The second is the acceptance speech at the convention next week. And then third is the vice presidential debate.

And a candidate for vice president can help or hurt in each -- at each of those times. So, it is an important choice.

But, most of all, it probably says more about the presidential candidate than even about who -- or as much as it says about who he chooses.

And I think there's another factor here, which is, this is going to be a tough campaign, a no-holds-barred campaign. You can already see it, by the way. The ads are going. And the president and vice president -- President Trump, Vice President Biden are talking about each other.

So, you better choose a running mate who can get out there onto the battlefield and really fight for you. And I'm sure that's one of the things that Joe Biden...

CAVUTO: Yes, well, they're both going at it. They're already both -- both campaigns are going out.

LIEBERMAN: Yes.

CAVUTO: I want to get a sense from you, though, of this letter signed by 100 African-American leaders of all types who were warning the vice president -- I think that's the strongest way to put it -- maybe I put it too strongly -- that he should choose an African-American woman and that he would lose if he didn't.

What did you think of that?

LIEBERMAN: Well, that's politics.

I mean, in other words, there's a real sense that this is a moment, with everything going on in the country about racial divide, to make an affirmative statement.

I don't really think Joe Biden has to do that. But I think he will. And it will be a positive. In my opinion, he's got a strong enough record on the questions of importance to the African-American community that -- and, frankly, they are down on President Trump. And he will have President Obama and others campaigning for him, that I think he can choose whoever he wants.

I mean, the truth is that this choice by the presidential candidate is one of the most unilateral exercises of power in American politics. And the presidential candidate in this case, Joe Biden, has earned it. And he will make the choice he thinks is best.

I'm guessing it's going to be an African-American woman. There are many of them on this list that are extremely well-qualified and would help him.

And as somebody who was, thanks to Al Gore, given the opportunity to break the barrier, I always like to see another barrier broken in American society, because I really think it does open up the society for everybody just a little more. And we need that right now.

CAVUTO: You're an amalgam in American politics, as you know, Senator.

You were that moderating force in 2000 on the Gore ticket. There was talk that John McCain had seriously considered you to be his running mate in 2008. But it would create too much of a scene having a non-Republican on the ticket. That's at least the market and political lore on all of that.

So, I guess what I'm asking, in your present frame of mind, who would you vote for, for president Joe Biden or Donald Trump?

(LAUGHTER)

LIEBERMAN: Well, I would probably vote for Joe Biden.

I have not been involved in the campaign at all. I have been focused on a group that I chair called No Labels. And we support center-left Democrats, center-right Republicans and try to get people who are problem-solvers into Congress. And we're doing pretty well at it.

But I have known Joe for almost 45 years. Of course, we were only 10 when we met, but it's -- he's really a good person. And I think he's the right person to take the country forward.

CAVUTO: All right.

LIEBERMAN: I have agreed with President Trump on a bunch of things.

But if you force me to make that choice, which you probably did, after having called me an amalgam, which is the first...

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

LIEBERMAN: ... called that, I would...

CAVUTO: I don't even know what that word means. I know it's kind of you.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Joe Lieberman, thank you very, very much, and for that startling news that you're going to support the Democratic nominee.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But, seriously, thank you very much...

LIEBERMAN: Thanks.

CAVUTO: ... the former independent senator, of course, the former vice presidential candidate back in 2000, an age ago, right?

We're going to get the read on all of this from Lawrence Jones and others about the importance of this decision.

Also getting word that the Pac-12 has joined the Big Ten in saying there will be no fall football season, no fall football season for two of the biggest conferences in football.

More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: It is Kamala Harris, the California senator, the former presidential candidate, who was right up there on the debate stage getting in his face with Joe Lieberman (sic), has been chosen as his pick to be his running mate.

She will be fighting the battle with him in the presidential campaign. The list had been whittled down to two, we're told, Susan Rice, the former national security adviser. But, ultimately, it was Kamala Harris who impressed the former vice president and will be his running mate.

We expect a confirmation of that shortly. It was texted out, just as Bret Baier said that it would be.

I want to get the read on all of this from Lawrence Jones, FOX Nation's "Keeping Up With Jones," so much more, FOX News analyst, on all of this.

And, Lawrence, you and I had talked about this, and this whole pick procedure...

LAWRENCE JONES, FOX NEWS ANALYST: Yes.

CAVUTO: ... where there was heavy pressure on Joe Biden, not only to choose a woman, but an African-American woman.

And then, lo and behold, this letter from black business leaders and other types who had been saying, you don't pick an African-American, you're going to lose this thing.

Do you think that weighed into it?

JONES: Oh, no doubt.

I mean, I have been talking about this for a while just from my reporting on the ground in talking with progressive activists that they wanted one of their guys in there, and they could consider as a progressive, as a change agent.

And when it comes to those black men that made it very clear that, if they didn't get a black woman on the ticket, that they were going to sit out this election, and, as you know, the Democratic Party needs black voters to show up. They could not afford the same thing to happen again, where there wasn't really that much -- it wasn't that much of high turnout when it came to black voters in the last race.

But to have them, the leaders like P. Diddy, Van Jones, and others to say that they weren't going to support the nominee if they didn't get a black female, I think that weighed on the vice president.

Now, I will say this. I think many of us called this months ago, even before the primary was even wrapped up and it seemed to look like Joe Biden was going to be the nominee, that he was going to pick Kamala Harris.

And one of the reasons is, she was the one that took it to him. She did a lot of oppo research herself, and then, after that, coalesced behind his candidacy.

This is not unexpected here, but I know it was tough decision. Just based on my sources within the inner circle, he really liked Susan Rice. He had a personal relationship with her.

But I think what it came down to is that she didn't really have any experience in elected office. And Kamala Harris has that name I.D., have people that follow her, and she's one of those people that could actually debate.

CAVUTO: Indeed.

The former vice president, Lawrence, has weighed in on this, tweeting out just a few moments ago: "I have the great honor to announce that I have picked Kamala Harris, a fearless fighter for the little guy, and one of the country's finest public servants, as my running mate."

So, for those of you who were watching this past weekend, when our own Peter Doocy caught up with a bicycling former vice president, and hinted that the decision had already been made then, and that it was Peter Doocy himself, I hate to break it to you, it is not Peter Doocy.

But we are going to Peter Doocy right now to weigh on this.

Well, maybe another time, Peter, but, for now, much as you had surmised, that the wagons had been circling around Kamala Harris, and that seems to be the pick.

What are we learning?

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, if that was you coming to me, I'm sorry that I missed it there, right off the top.

CAVUTO: Go ahead. Go ahead.

DOOCY: So, Kamala Harris, it says a lot about what the former vice president is looking for.

Remember, a week or two ago, he was photographed with -- somebody took a picture of his notes. And right at the top, it said Kamala Harris. He does not hold grudges. And perhaps the premier moment of her primary campaign when she was still in the race was when she challenged Joe Biden on stage at the first debate about his record on busing. That was in June.

By September, I remember asking her a question about something Biden- related, and her response was: Leave Joe Biden alone.

And so, from the beginning, after that thing that got her so much attention, she had a complete change over the course of a summer. She did not have great success in the primaries or the caucuses because she dropped out before they actually started.

She went all in Iowa. I remember we were in her office right around Thanksgiving because she was going to spend Thanksgiving with a family there. She was one of the only candidates who was doing that. She said she was going to keep pushing through.

But, by the first week of December, she decided to go out. When it comes to her positions, Kamala Harris is a supporter of Medicare for all. It's still on her campaign Web site, https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__KamalaHarris.com&d=DwICAg&c=cnx1hdOQtepEQkpermZGwQ&r=tgDLkJy54PfJyWJwul3dKe54qGxqO7b7d5vjo7RcZds&m=M5ZE2qk9ODee7cKQPsubDZMmAOBEPYvy7oy2GKpS92U&s=BWW8p6yGYUjgOy60uWVHLIzF811pWSIxVfy33cy2TEo&e= , if you have questions about the new running mate for Joe Biden.

And the other big issue of this time right now, in addition to COVID-19, for Democrats is -- are civil rights issues. And Harris, when she would tell her personal story on the campaign trail, focused a lot on telling stories about how her parents were very active in the civil rights movement and her memories of that as a child.

So, a lot just changed in the 2020 race. And it is going to be Biden/Harris on the bumper sticker for the next couple months -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, thank you, my friend, very, very much.

As Peter touched on here, the 55-year-old senator becomes the third woman to serve in a running mate capacity or a vice presidential candidate capacity that we have had. Of course, in 2016, Hillary Clinton was atop the ticket that also included Senator Kaine of Virginia.

But, in all those cases, whether a second on the ticket or first, this anomaly has been that that ticket has lost each and every time.

But, again, each year, each quadrennial event, and each attention to it, whether it's Geraldine Ferraro in 1984, of course, Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate in 2008, and, of course, now, in this development, that another woman, an African-American woman, the first on a ticket, there are some distinctions right away there.

Bret Baier rejoining me right now.

Bret, what are you hearing? What closed the deal for Kamala Harris on this?

BAIER: Listen, we're not hearing a lot.

And let's just point out that the Biden campaign is to be credited. Other than this tweet, there was not a lot of leaks. There were not a lot of leaks.

CAVUTO: You're right.

BAIER: In fact, there was a lot of cloak and dagger about this. And they kept this really a surprise.

But, in the end, it went back to what people thought at the very beginning, when Joe Biden kind of clinched the nomination, and that is that this was in the cards from the early part. The Biden/Harris ticket had been talked about for months and months and months, even at the beginning of the entire Democratic race for president.

If you look back at the times where there have been surprise V.P. picks -- remember Sarah Palin, remember Geraldine Ferraro...

CAVUTO: Right.

BAIER: ... those moments, 1984 and the John McCain race, those were candidates who needed to shake up the race and change the dynamic, as they were looking at polls, as they were looking at the situation heading into Election Day.

This is a candidate in Joe Biden who does not have to do that, looking at polls. He actually needs to keep the race the exact same. He does not need to upset the applecart or create some magic excitement.

That said, I think Kamala Harris, for die-hard Democrats, will be a pick that makes them feel at ease. She's already been through the fire in a presidential race. She's been obviously a contender against Joe Biden, as Peter referenced, in that first debate.

So, there is that tension from that first debate that will be pointed to. But she also endorsed him and spoke for him many times on the campaign trail. So, in this, you see someone who is -- was not characterized as a great campaigner, but someone who does get a lot of attention.

She was born to an Indian mother and a Jamaican father. She has a long history in California as California's attorney general, San Francisco's district attorney. And in this time in law enforcement, it's an interesting pick as well.

CAVUTO: Willie Brown, the former San Francisco mayor whom she dated up for some time, had more or less said, don't go for the veepstakes here. It's -- this is going to be, at best, a one-term event for -- even if Joe Biden wins -- I'm paraphrasing here -- but that the economy is due to have some problems, the virus thing will still be a mess, and that maybe she should go for attorney general, as if she could have her picks here, but that this was a dangerous move for her.

Obviously, she felt differently. Joe Biden clearly felt differently. What do you think?

BAIER: Well, I think she was advocating for it.

I mean, I had heard through different channels that she was really trying to be this pick, and now is that pick.

This changes -- this sets the race. The ticket is now set, Neil.

CAVUTO: Yes.

BAIER: Biden/Harris will be on the bumper stickers. I think the event is scheduled for tomorrow in that hotel that Joe Biden announced his Senate race way back when down in Wilmington, Delaware, and they're setting up for that.

They will create a lot of excitement. That will be the focus really through the weekend, I think. And then it'll turn, and it'll be Joe Biden who will be center stage. And that first debate is looming once we get through the conventions.

CAVUTO: Yes.

You know political history far better than I, but I think there would be a 22-year gap between these two, that is, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That's pretty substantial. I don't know what it was for Sarah Palin and John McCain. Might have been very similar.

But, obviously, this was a signal on the former vice president's part to say he is ready with a younger, qualified, ready-to-go candidate, and that that was important. That's what makes her choice all the more scrutinized, because a lot of people are going to look at her as a future president, assuming that Joe Biden, were he to win, would be a one-termer.

That's a leap too far to take, but I'm just curious about that and your thought on the age gap, let alone that this is the first African-American woman on a ticket.

BAIER: Right.

So, it's historic. And it is -- I think, in the age situation, it is a 55- year-old who is a senator who also ran for president. So there is the stability there of someone who has been through a lot of questions, a lot of debates, a number of -- just under the scrutiny already, and can handle the fire, in the eyes of the Biden campaign.

But the most important person here is Joe Biden. And he's obviously come to a place where he trusts that Kamala Harris is someone that he wants to have at his side. He knows the job better than pretty much anybody. And he often talks about his relationship with the former president.

I will be interested to know how much the Obama world played a role in whether Kamala Harris was this pick. And I think we will find out a lot behind the scenes, Neil, in coming hours and coming days.

CAVUTO: Yes, I think you're right.

Speaking the Obama world, Bret, Susan Rice went ahead and offered her congratulations to the California senator. We're told that it was down to those final two.

She says: "My warmest congratulations to Kamala Harris. I'm confident Biden/Harris will prove to be a winning ticket. I will do my utmost to help them win and govern.

Much had been made at Susan Rice and her impeccable foreign policy credentials, but that she had no real political experience, in other words, not a senator, congresswoman, governor, that sort of thing, and that that might have worked against her, as did her -- the whole Benghazi situation that might have gotten the whole thing sidetracked and gone back in ancient history here.

What do you make of that? How much of a factor was just the real raw political experience of running for office, having an office?

BAIER:  Well, I mean, she would have been the only vice president or only executive that had never held an office.

CAVUTO: Right.

BAIER: And that she was national security adviser -- remember, she was up for secretary of state and then pulled her nomination after it was on the rocks.

But this is not the end of Susan Rice, if Joe Biden wins the presidency. I mean, she's very likely in position for secretary of state, if that ever happened.

But, again, you have to win the presidency first.

CAVUTO: Right.

BAIER: And I think Joe Biden and the Biden campaign determined that Kamala Harris is best positioned. And, really, it's amazing how this is full circle, Neil, because, at the beginning of this process, people were saying -- before Joe Biden had a really rocky start, if you remember, in the Democratic primary, they were saying, oh, Biden/Harris, this looks like it fits.

And that's before he lost the first few, until South Carolina, where he was kind of a phoenix from the ashes and ended up getting the nomination.

Now we're back to the beginning speculation about Biden/Harris. And that's what the bumper stickers will say.

CAVUTO: Not too long ago, Bret -- and I will let you go here -- but there was a conversation about Joe Biden and his particular style, that he doesn't hold grudges, even though, sometimes, they can get pretty nasty, the exchanges.

We all remember the one that he had with Kamala Harris, when she got in his face about the whole busing issue and recounting what it was like for her as a child dealing with policies that he was supporting.

But he obviously let that roll off, and not let it disrupt his intention to put her on the ticket, even though some of his supporters had said it would be a bad idea because they're still chafing at that exchange.

BAIER: Yes.

And I think he got over it with the thought...

CAVUTO: Yes.

BAIER: ... that, could she be president? That is really the highest bar here. Can this person be president of the United States?

She obviously ran for the position. And I think they got to the place where they think that she's the one that can do it.

Also, I think, internally, they feel like she can take the argument to President Trump and Vice President Pence in a very aggressive way. Sometimes, you have an attack dog. Sometimes, if you watch Senator Harris in some of those hearings, she serves that role in the questioning of some administration officials.

So it's going to be fascinating to watch. But we're going to have a few days of this, and then the rollout for the Democratic Convention that was supposed to be in Milwaukee, but now we will be almost all virtual.

CAVUTO: Right.

I have a feeling I know what your show will look like. But, if you need any bond market commentary, Bret, I'm here for you.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: I got your back, all right?

Thank you very much, my friend, Bret Baier following that.

BAIER: Good to see you.

CAVUTO: Again, for those who just joining us at 32 minutes after the hour, it is Kamala Harris who will join the ticket of Joe Biden.

And that one/two combination is already getting a great deal of scrutiny, and some Republicans picking it apart.

Nancy Pelosi, fellow Californian, by the way, speaker, thinks it's an excellent choice.

Jacqui Heinrich following all of this right now -- Jacqui.

HEINRICH: Hey there, Neil.

Yes, it is worth mentioning again that Kamala Harris will make history, as the first African-American woman to join the ticket. And the hope is that she could excite African-American voters in key cities and also swing states.

And she brings legislative and both law enforcement experience to the ticket, as California's attorney general and also a senator. We know that key qualities for Biden in his V.P. search were sharing the same values -- that's what his wife, Jill, said -- and also loyalty.

And Eric Garcetti had said this morning that Biden's choice would show that he makes these decisions himself. And this seemed to be a little bit of a nod to that controversy around the V.P. vetting committee, when Senator -- former Senator Chris Dodd raised some questions about Harris' loyalty following her attack on Biden during the first Democratic debate.

He reportedly saw it as a cheap shot, trying to make Biden seem racially insensitive. Clearly, they let this roll off. Biden made this choice on his own. And it comes back to what Garcetti had said, that he let that sort of scuffle go and made this choice on his own, despite what those concerns were from the vetting committee at that point in time.

Now, electorally, this choice doesn't help the Democrats too much. She's from California. It's not a state the Democrats need to fight hard to win. But, on the flip side, it's not going to be a difficult seat for the Democrats to maintain. They could probably get someone else in there to replace her without much difficulty.

Now, Biden tweeted: "I have the great honor to announce I have picked Kamala Harris, a fearless fighter for the little guy, and one of the country's finest public servants, as my running mate. Back when Kamala was attorney general, she worked closely with Beau. I watched as they took on big banks, lifted up working people, and protected women and kids from abuse. I was proud then, and I'm proud now to have her as my partner in the campaign."

So, obviously, she had a close connection to Beau. They were both state attorneys general. That was another one of her sort of pluses that brought her high up on that list early on.

Now, some drawbacks for her, potentially, as we move closer to the election, she has faced criticism by progressives for her record as attorney general. This pick might be a little bit disappointing to some progressives, who may be wanted to see Elizabeth Warren get that slot.

But you have to remember, team Biden and Bernie Sanders have been working together for weeks now on joint policy agreements in that task force. They have really tried to bring in representation from all ends of the political spectrum within the party.

So, Biden's choice will attempt to do no harm, in the sense that now this will move the marker for women in politics, especially women of color. That gives something concrete to the black voters, who really propelled him to the position that he's in now, as the presumptive nominee, after South Carolina.

This is giving black people a seat at the table, like he promised. And he's trying to also do no harm, in the sense that those progressives who are still trying to be brought under the tent are represented in the policy initiatives that the Biden campaign is putting out.

So, finally, an answer here, Neil, after a lot of speculation, and impressive that a leak didn't get out. We actually heard it from team Biden themselves -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Yes, that, in and of itself, is remarkable, especially when we know that he likely called some of those under consideration, including Governor Whitmer and others, and that they were not the pick.

I assumed he did that with some of the prominent names. But, again, that, to your point, Jacqui, did not leak out. Amazing.

Jacqui Heinrich, we will no doubt be going back to her.

There is a stakeout going on both at the Biden compound or near the compound in Wilmington, Delaware. In Washington, D.C., we're watching things very closely outside Senator Harris' offices there. So we will keep an eye. If either or both come out from their separate locales, we will go there immediately.

Speaking of some of the opponents or those that were also being considered for this job, the California congresswoman is also on the wires, Karen Bass, who was quickly a rising star here in the selection process, we're told.

She wrote today that: "Kamala Harris is a great choice for vice president. Her tenacious pursuit of justice and relentless advocacy for the people is what is needed right now."

Don Peebles with us right now on this pick.

Don, first of all, your reaction to Kamala Harris herself being that pick?

R. DONAHUE PEEBLES, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, PEEBLES CORPORATION: Oh, I'm not surprised, Neil.

In fact, I was on FOX on Saturday, and that would be the call I would have made. I indicated that I thought that was the best choice for Biden. So, I'm not surprised. It's the safe choice. And it's the choice that positions him best to get elected.

CAVUTO: Do you think he would have caught hell or risked a lot if he did not pick an African-American woman? I'm referring again, as I have mentioned prior in the show, Don, this letter from 100 top African-American leaders, who were concerned that, if he didn't, in other words, not just a woman, an African-American woman, he would lose the election.

What did you think of that? Do you think that letter had any impact?

PEEBLES: Well, I think that Kamala Harris was the best choice.

Once he said he was going to pick a woman, she was the best choice. She had been battle-tested during the primary. She showed her skill set as a candidate. She's been in the United States Senate and also held two significant offices in California, district attorney of San Francisco and attorney general of California. So, she is battle-tested and ready to lead.

I think that it diminishes any candidate to select them based upon race. I think Harris, regardless of race or gender, is a very powerful choice for vice president, by definition that she was given Vice President Biden a run for his money early on in the primary season, and certainly during the debates.

CAVUTO: I'm wondering how it changes the equation here a little bit.

Forget about that she's a woman, an African-American woman. She's a lot younger than Joe Biden, about 22 years younger. I don't know where that compares, at least in recent times, maybe George Bush Sr. with Dan Quayle, maybe Senator John McCain with Sarah Palin. But this is a generational gap between the two.

Now, obviously, that's all the more important here, because, if Joe Biden were elected, he'd be the oldest president ever. But how important is that to you in sizing up a ticket, their ages?

PEEBLES: Well, I think mostly, -- I think the reason the vice presidential candidate has such a important role in this primary process and the nominating process is because of Vice President Biden's age.

And the presumption is that he will run for one term, and then his vice president would be the future of the party. And so, of course, they need to have to some runway in terms of their age ahead of them.

And so Harris, being of my generation, I think, is a nod to that. And, again, she is a vice presidential nominee who could be president and who has the capacity to step in and serve in that role immediately.

And I think that is going to be a critical issue for voters, again, because of the vice president's age. And I think that will be a big issue during the campaign between him and President Trump.

And so there will be an extraordinary amount of attention on the vice presidential nominee.

CAVUTO: Now, you have been concerned about the leftward lurch of the party and its dominance with the names like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and things like that.

There had been talk that Elizabeth Warren was also on this short list. Maybe there was concern there that, if she were the pick, a Republican governor in that state would pick a successor, and therein lies the possible loss of a Democratic Senate seat.

But, leaving that aside, what is your sense of where Democrats are now, with Kamala Harris on the ticket, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez still given a prominent speaking role at the convention? Where are you on this? And how worried are you about this, or are you?

PEEBLES: Well, I think that Vice President Biden has come back to basically who he is and where he is. He's more of a centrist Democrat.

And I believe that he has assessed and his advisers have assessed that that is going to be the pathway to being competitive and to have a victorious campaign against President Trump.

And I think that they have made the calculation that the left really has nowhere to go. Where are they going? To President Trump?

So, they -- it's the center of the party that is going to be the determining factor in this election. And that center is not going to go that far left.

I mean, if he had nominated someone far left, it would have been very problematic for me, as a Democrat, to support that, because of the vice president's age and the fact that we'd be turning the party over to someone on the far left.

So, I mean, look, the left of the party has an important role. They certainly are advocating on issues that they believe are critical to their place in our party. But they should not define the party because they are on the edge of what the Democratic Party is.

And we ought to be true to what the Democratic Party is. Otherwise, we're not going to be competitive in the general election, which is going to tighten up too, by the way.

CAVUTO: All right, we will see, Don.

Always good seeing you, Don Peebles, close confidant of Barack Obama's, a very powerful player in the Democratic Party. He had been concerned about the leftward lurch of the party, it sounds like a little less so right now.

Let's go to John Roberts at the White House.

The president already scheduled a press briefing, I think, at 5:30. John, I'm sure he's going to be responding to these developments. What are you hearing?

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he will most certainly be asked about this. There's no question about that.

His campaign came out with a statement just a few moments ago. Interesting to note that Katrina Pierson, who is one of his advisers, is the person who issued the statement. And it's clear from this statement -- and it's a couple of paragraphs -- that one of the main things that the Trump campaign is going to do to try to attack Kamala Harris is to attack her integrity.

The opening line of the statement from Katrina Pierson is: "Not long ago, Kamala Harris called Joe Biden a racist and asked for an apology an apology she never received. Clearly, phony Kamala will abandon her own morals, as well as try to bury her record as a prosecutor, in order to appease the anti-police extremists controlling the Democratic Party."

They also refer to her in this statement -- or Katrina does in this statement -- as Joe Biden's political living will, suggesting that Joe Biden will probably not make it through two terms as president.

Whether or not he chooses to run for a second term or not is -- should he win the presidency is something that has been talked about. So, clearly, they're setting this up to say that Kamala Harris has abandoned her own principles in order to run for president and in order to become Joe Biden's running mate, and that she may, in fact, not just be running as vice president, but be running as Joe Biden's successor already.

So, that's a way that they're going to try to attack this ticket to try to convince people that a vote for Joe Biden is a vote for what they call in this statement an empty shell who will be filled with the agenda of the radical left.

So, the Trump campaign is playing hardball here, Neil, right out of the gate with this pick of Kamala Harris.

CAVUTO: John, though, as a former prosecutor, if anything, Kamala Harris was getting heat from many African-Americans in the party and others who said she was a little too tough on crime and that sort of thing, and that it would negate her being a running mate.

ROBERTS: Yes, true. I mean, she...

CAVUTO: So, in a way, be careful what you criticize, right?

ROBERTS: Yes.

So, here's the contradiction, Neil. As you pointed out just a moment ago, she ran afoul of progressives. And yet the Trump campaign is portraying her as someone who is adherent to progressive ideology, and not just progressive ideology, but radical left ideology.

So they're painting her as way left of what people in the Democratic Party have.

CAVUTO: Yes.

ROBERTS: But that's the -- that's the way that Trump is going to fight this campaign, is to portray Joe Biden and the Democratic Party as the radical left, as embodied by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, according to the president, and other members of the Squad.

And they're going to try to take that ideology and stick it firmly to Joe Biden and say, this is -- this is the ideology. Forget what Joe Biden says or whether he tries to portray himself as a moderate. This is the ideology that the party represents. And Joe Biden is the head of the Democratic Party, presumably so. We will find out next week, after the convention -- I'm sure that there's no doubt about it -- that that is who Joe Biden represents.

CAVUTO: By the way, the real quick clarification I just want to get, I mean, the president seems to be calling that -- saying that Kamala Harris had called Joe Biden a racist. She never did.

ROBERTS: No.

And, again, it wasn't the president who issued the statement. It was Katrina Pierson who issued the statement on behalf of the president and the president's campaign.

But, clearly, in that confrontation in the debate, it was an uncomfortable moment. She did demand an apology.

CAVUTO: Right.

ROBERTS: Whether or not she actually said the word racist or not, I mean, the intimation was there.

CAVUTO: All right. We will watch it very, very closely.

John Roberts, thank you very, very much.

Tom Bevan joins us right now of RealClearPolitics.

Tom, what do you think of this choice?

TOM BEVAN, CO-FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__REALCLEARPOLITICS.COM&d=DwICAg&c=cnx1hdOQtepEQkpermZGwQ&r=tgDLkJy54PfJyWJwul3dKe54qGxqO7b7d5vjo7RcZds&m=M5ZE2qk9ODee7cKQPsubDZMmAOBEPYvy7oy2GKpS92U&s=Kcy7qOscaMTdXO_uCh0fYbsy3XTDCJePuRNFGezV2ek&e= : Well, it's the safe choice.

It is -- I think Joe Biden himself and his advisers both thought that -- I mean, I think he was risk-averse to begin with, and they didn't feel like they needed to go take a risk on one of the candidates that might have had -- been a riskier pick or had more baggage, and that Kamala Harris has a lot of the things that Joe Biden was looking for.

In many ways, he -- as he whittled this down by saying, look, I'm going to pick a woman, I'm going to pick a woman of color, and as he made those sort of comments and gaffes that sort of -- you mentioned the letter earlier. He was getting more and more pressure to pick someone.

Jacqui mentioned her connection to Beau and -- to Beau Biden. She has the senatorial experiences, which is something that Joe Biden values, obviously. And so, in that sense, I think she's the safe pick.

I'm not sure how much she's going to excite African-American -- the African-American base, for the reasons you have already talked about, her previous record as a prosecutor.

I mean, look, she did not excite African-Americans in the primary. I mean, she had her moment where she basically got to about second place in the polls, but really never caught on with voters in the Democratic primary, and even with African-American voters.

And that was never really -- I don't know that we ever really understood why that was. African-American stayed solidly behind Joe Biden and, in fact, rescued his candidacy in the end.

So I think it's a solid pick. It's a safe pick. And we will see how it works out from here.

CAVUTO: Well, the reactions are pouring in fast and furiously, Tom.

Hillary Clinton saying: "I'm thrilled to welcome Kamala Harris to a historic Democratic ticket. She's already proving herself to be an incredible public servant and leader. And I know she will be a strong partner to Joe Biden. Please join me in having her back and getting her elected."

This comes at a time -- this is the third woman prominently featured on a ticket as either number two or number one. Of course, Hillary Clinton four years ago, was at the top of the ticket, but in prior moments, Sarah Palin back in 2008 for the Republicans under John McCain. Certainly, we saw it with Geraldine Ferraro in 1984.

But, each time, those instances, the ticket lost, I'm not saying because a woman was on the ticket. There are obviously other circumstances. But the history isn't good on this.

Now, Democrats are seizing on a whole different environment right now, and with the coronavirus and everything else, and the loss of jobs, and the concerns and the protests and everything else, that the public's mood is soured.

But what do you make of that?

BEVAN: Well, I mean, this is really -- you mentioned it's -- our -- the number of times that we have seen this is small, so we don't really have a lot to compare it to.

CAVUTO: True.

BEVAN: And, obviously, we're in an unprecedented situation in terms of this campaign. We're not going to have conventions. We're in the middle of a pandemic. We're in the -- an economic crisis.

And so I think this is going to play out differently than we would have imagined. Obviously, the Biden campaign is also going to play the female card in there. When the Trump campaign attacks Kamala Harris, as they have already done and as they will continue to do, and call her a vessel for the radical left and all the things they are going to do, the Biden campaign is going to say, see, this is sexism writ large here, and the Trump campaign is afraid of having a powerful woman on the ticket.

So we're going to see all that, and it's all going to be very, very predictable.

At the end of the day. This is still a race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Kamala Harris can help promote his message. She can help raise money. She can help try and excite the base. But, at the end of the day, this is going to be won or lost by the folks who are on the top of the ticket.

CAVUTO: Yes, it invariably is, isn't it?

Tom Bevan, thank you very, very much.

BEVAN: Thank you.

CAVUTO: Charlie Gasparino has been working the phones here.

One thing that was very clear, when she was running as a candidate for president, she wanted to go after corporations, saying that they weren't paying their fair share. So did Joe Biden, but to a less extent than Kamala Harris had then. Tickets tend to coalesce around the top of the ticket's economic views, tax views.

But, Charlie, one thing that's very, very clear, no matter how you look at it, Joe Biden says, at the very least, he wants to hike corporate taxes from 21 percent to 28 percent. During the campaign, Kamala Harris was a tad more aggressive than that.

But how do you see this all reconciling with the Wall Street crowd?

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, first off, I want to say kudos to Lydia Moynihan, my producer, who nailed the timing on this impeccably.

She's -- she put out that it was going to come around 4:00, and it did. That was the big surprise here. I don't think Kamala Harris is necessarily a surprise. Some people thought it could be Susan Rice today, because her name was left off the speaker list on the Democratic Convention.

CAVUTO: Right. Right.

GASPARINO: But Kamala Harris, as your last guest said, is the safe choice.

Listen, here's the thing. Wall Street actually likes Kamala Harris. She has developed tremendous bonds with significant people on Wall Street. She's raised money with them. They don't feel like they're getting AOC or Elizabeth Warren in Kamala Harris.

This is a very safe choice on a number of levels. She's going to be able to raise a lot of money. She's not going to be able to -- she's not going to draw a crowd. It's going to be very hard to point -- look at her record and call her some sort of wild-eyed radical.

She's -- she hasn't. She's liberal. She hasn't been radical. And here's the one problem, though, that the entire Democratic Party has. It has been so infatuated with the progressive side of the party, the left is, that they have all moved to the left.

So, on economic policy, even though Kamala Harris is better than AOC, she's still not great. She's still going to go after corporations -- or support Joe -- or she still has positions that will want to go after corporations.

As you know, the vice president doesn't play that active role in policy- making. But here's the thing, Neil. I mean, Joe Biden is 77. I mean, she's auditioning for president. So this could be a little different.

So, that will -- that will mean every one of her positions, particularly have far left she went during the campaign, when she went after Biden, when she didn't call him specifically a racist, but she brought up a very uncomfortable situation, implying that he did stuff that was -- that was -- that could be considered racist on busing, all that stuff will be brought up now.

Her economic positions that she developed during the campaign, that's all fodder for the Trump campaign to point her -- paint her as someone who's -- who maybe not was a leftist when she ran for office or in governing, but has adopted those principles.

And I think that's part of the problem the Democrats have.

On economics, Neil, all's you have to do is look at what they have been saying. And Joe Biden is mainstream in moving to the left. I mean, that's the -- that is so interesting.

Now, again, in terms of the pick itself, I mean, it's what my Wall Street sources have been saying for weeks. It's the smart, safe choice.

CAVUTO: All right.

GASPARINO: They're going to try to make this election about Trump. Kamala Harris does not -- basically checks a lot of boxes. You're not going to find major bombshells about her. So that's why you go with someone like her.

And, plus, she's been vetted. She was a -- a U.S. senator. Susan Rice has never held office. But, still...

CAVUTO: No, that's important. It makes an important difference.

GASPARINO: It is.

CAVUTO: If you have been vetted and been on the national stage and ripped apart, I mean, that does clear any sort of surprises that could come. They still might come.

But, Charlie, thank you very, very much, Charlie Gasparino on that.

We should just let you know here, on the upper left-hand corner of your screen, I didn't acknowledge this shot we're getting out of Wilmington, Delaware. That is outside Joe Biden's home, I believe.

So we're waiting to see if he has anything in person to say. Actually, he texted this out today that Kamala Harris was his running mate pick.

We have been watching in Washington as well, where Kamala Harris -- I believe that's outside her home there, but I could be -- the home in Washington, but that she might address the press, but no doubt would wait until the guy at the top of the ticket says something. Might not even come today. It might come tomorrow at a formal event, as Bret Baier outlined a little bit earlier on all of that.

Chad Pergram knows a thing or two about this senator, who has a lot in common with one Barack Obama, a fast-moving career that people on all sides have noticed, like a rocket.

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS SENIOR CAPITOL HILL PRODUCER: Absolutely.

CAVUTO: Chad.

PERGRAM: Absolutely.

She got here in January of 2017. And almost like Obama, as you say, she was running for president almost from the start. She beat Loretta Sanchez, the Democratic congresswoman from Southern California, in 2016 rather handily; 61 percent of the vote is what she commanded that year.

Here's what I remember about Kamala Harris. She sits on the Judiciary Committee. And at Brett Kavanaugh's first confirmation hearing -- this is before we heard about some of the other things that went on in high school, but at the very first confirmation hearing, Chuck Grassley, the chair, then the chair of the Judiciary Committee from Iowa, he got through 12 words -- 12 -- I went back and counted of his opening statement before Kamala Harris interrupted him.

She was determined to make a point, points of order, parliamentary procedure, other types of dilatory tactics, to kind of inject herself into that hearing and ask questions about how they were proceeding.

And it kind of derailed the hearing for about 43 minutes, before they got back on track. So, she has not been here very long, and she makes a point very quickly here.

Something else I'm going to note here. In the next half-hour, Jim Clyburn, the Democratic whip South Carolina, he is going to have a press call and talk about Kamala Harris.

Don't forget that it was Jim Clyburn who basically salvaged Vice President Biden, former Vice President Biden's campaign, after some very bad missteps in the early going in the caucuses and the primaries. Had he not performed well in South Carolina, mostly due to Jim Clyburn, this would not have been Joe Biden's pick to make today.

The other thing here that -- touching on what Charlie Gasparino said, this is somebody who has a record as attorney general and so on and so forth. By being attorney general, she matches up pretty well with the Trump campaign's idea of law and order, and all of this with Black Lives Matter and protests in the street. That's something there.

But the other thing that might be a problem for her, even though she has not been in the Senate very long -- and you look at someone like Susan Rice -- Harris has a voting record. They will go back on the RNC -- in the RNC. They will go, the Trump campaign, they will fillet every single roll call vote that she has ever taken.

And they will dissect that and interpret that and project that, because they're trying to project an image, just not of Kamala Harris, but also of the Democratic Party, that it's too far left, that it's driven by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders.

That's not quite where she is. But that's something that they will definitely try to do. It's very interesting to see which image prevails, that attorney general of California law and order image, or something else that the Republicans try to propound -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Chad, in these polls we examine ruthlessly and endlessly, there's much made about the passion of the voters and the support for each candidate, that, even though he trails in the polls, depending on what you look at, of course -- I get that -- the passion of Trump voters easily eclipses those of potential Biden voters.

Does a Kamala Harris on the ticket change that?

PERGRAM: Well, there's going to be a lot of education to the voters right now, getting to understand and know who she is.

CAVUTO: Yes.

PERGRAM: The idea that she's kind of his middle-grade candidate, that's something that's important there.

But a lot of people will look at, can she step into the role of vice president? John Nance Garner, he once said that the vice presidency was the spare tire on the automobile of government.

But you have both candidates this year, Joe Biden and President Trump, they're older, the oldest two that have run against one another in a presidential election. Usually, we don't think that the vice presidency matters very much. It certainly mattered back in 1960, when President Kennedy tapped Lyndon Johnson.

But they generally don't deliver states. I mean, look at what happened with Paul Ryan when Mitt Romney tapped him. Paul Ryan -- he was not speaker of the House yet, but only commanded 55 percent in his House race that year in 2012.

So, sometimes, you don't know who's going to set the table on fire, Neil.

CAVUTO: Yes.

Very well put, my friend, very well put, Chad Pergram.

The do-no-harm issue is certainly first and foremost to Joe Biden. Kamala Harris, he is convinced, will do no harm. And, in fact, for those who want a passionate following and more for this Democratic candidate, she just might provide that, or so he hopes.

That will do it here.

Here comes "THE FIVE."

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