Larry Kudlow on trade with China, North Korea talks
Director of the National Economic Council Larry Kudlow says President Trump is a 'change agent' on 'The Story.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," May 30, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Yes, there is. Good luck to your Caps. I know you're a huge fan. I'll be rooting for them for you, Bret. And what a great -- what a great guy J.J. Watt is. What an example he says for everyone, just remarkable. Good luck tonight, Bret.
BAIER: Thanks.
MACCALLUM: I hope you score a lot of goals. Big night in New York City. But first, breaking tonight, 'The Story' making news again, many in the media hailing Congressman Trey Gowdy's appearance here last night for apparently debunking what the president refers to as spygate. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TREY GOWDY, R—S.C., CHAIRMAN, HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: President Trump himself in the Comey memos said if anyone connects with my campaign was working with Russia, I want you to investigate it. And it sounds to me like that is exactly what the FBI did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Our own Judge Andrew Napolitano, joins us in a moment. He shared a similar opinion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: The Trump people think that the FBI had an undercover agent who inveigled his way into the campaign and was there as a spy on the campaign seem to be baseless, there's no evidence for that whatsoever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Here is some of the strong reaction from the media.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, ANDERSON COOPER 360, CNN: President Trump's prior conspiracy theory spygate was just debunked on Fox News by a G.O.P. lawmaker, no less.
JOE SCARBOROUGH, CO-HOST, MORNING JOE, MSNBC: God bless Trey Gowdy, for saying this that the FBI did it by the book.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His remarks are astounding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge Andrew Napolitano who has been as a Fox News legal analyst, who has been a defender of the president through and through he called the president's claim that the FBI placed an undercover spy in the campaign, "baseless".
DANA BASH, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Nothing to see here guys, chill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACCALLUM: Earlier this evening, I got Judge Andrew Napolitano's reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MACCALLUM: Do you agree with the commentators that we just showed that you're calling out the president and basically debunking his theory of spygate?
NAPOLITANO: Well I'm relying on the accuracy of what Trey Gowdy reported to you, and what candidly he told me about before the show started because he knew I was going to be on last night to comment on him. He has a top secret security clearance, he saw all these documents. Assuming he saw the right documents and wasn't misled by Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein or FBI Director Wray, which I think is extremely unlikely if they would have misled him.
And he basically said, "Yes, the FBI used an informant and they did that by the book. No, the FBI did not have a spy inside the campaign as the president." And his most articulate spokesperson these days on the legal side, former mayor Giuliani have been claiming. So, yes I do -- I don't think anybody --
MACCALLUM: You have been out -- but you and everybody else has talked about this and said that -- has said that a spy and an informant are basically the same thing, depending on which side of the fence you're on.
NAPOLITANO: Yes, yes. So, a spy -- a spy is the other guy's informant.
MACCALLUM: So, why they're different here? Right.
NAPOLITANO: Informant is your guy. But if by spy, because Rudy Giuliani, said an FBI agent undercover, "If by spy they mean a human being that is a government agent pretending to be somebody else on the inside of the campaign, where the right to privacy is protected, were the Fourth Amendment protects the conversation, they would be in the search warrant for that.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: You think that -- you think that the Trump campaign believes that there was an FBI hired person working in the campaign?
NAPOLITANO: Pretending to be somebody else, an agent of the government. For that, they need a search warrant, and that's what Trey Gowdy says there is a zero evidence up.
MACCALLUM: I'm not sure that they have clearly said that they believe that it was someone who was being paid by the FBI and who was working in the campaign. I -- are they talking about the same person that we're all talking about?
NAPOLITANO: I don't --
MACCALLUM: Someone who was on the periphery of the campaign, who was -- you know basically emailing out of the blue. Carter Page at George Papadopoulos, and saying, "Hey, let's meet up. I'd like to talk to you." I mean, clearly fishing just see if the Russians were going after them, and there's no problem with that.
NAPOLITANO: NO.
MACCALLUM: But are we all talking about the same thing?
NAPOLITANO: Not only is there no problem with that, it is unremarkable that we're talking about it because the government does this all the time. Rudy Giuliani perfected this when he was the U.S. attorney and it was upheld by the courts.
You send somebody who may pretend to be someone other than they are to have a conversation in a public place, this is very important because, in a public place, the Fourth Amendment does not pertain if somebody shows up and says, "I want to work for the campaign," and makes his way to the inside and that person is really an undercover FBI agent --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: (INAUDIBLE). If some of these peripheral folks in the campaign were being approached by Russians, who did Russians came up to them and say I've got some Stewart on Hillary Clinton, and do they go back and forth on that --
NAPOLITANO: Those are -- those are (INAUDIBLE) conversations.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely, absolutely, but here is what -- here is what's different in the situation. This is the middle of a presidential campaign, right? Do any different rules apply given the fact that the outcome of this moment is going to produce a new President of the United States?
Did they have -- and you said last night, that's a judgment call when I asked you about that. Did they have the onus on them to say -- and as Trey Gowdy pointed out, the president said look, if there's somebody infiltrating the campaign or there's somebody who's trying to -- you know, speak to my folks from Russia, I want to know about it. Why didn't they talk about it?
NAPOLITANO: I really don't know, I told you last night if I were making the calls, I would have told you the candidate --
MACCALLUM: So, why didn't say?
NAPOLITANO: -- or the campaign manager. They made a judgment not to, and I haven't --
MACCALLUM: But what's the motivation not to?
NAPOLITANO: Well they haven't said. Either their presence was elicit or they felt that by telling more people than was necessary, the word would get out.
MACCALLUM: Well, how about this idea that it dries up your lead into the campaign?
NAPOLITANO: I may very well do that. And so, that would be a very legitimate law enforcement based reason for not announcing your presence. That's what I say that a judgment, though --
MACCALLUM: But then, when they compressed the dossier, James Comey says he was compelled. He had to tell the president about that piece, but not any of the other stuff. So, why does it make that judgment call and not the rest of the story?
NAPOLITANO: Well, you're asking a wrong person. That would be as Comey if he ever was willing to sit here. But as I told you last night, I disagree with their decision not to tell Trump, because if I were the candidate, I would want to know -- wait a minute my campaign is surrounded by the FBI and they claim they're here to protect me. I'd want to know that.
MACCALLUM: And the reason that it raises all these questions for the president is because he knows it's the people who are running the investigation we're seeing all these nasty things about him and the text message all right.
NAPOLITANO: Right.
MACCALLUM: So he's saying there's more to that than this say, yes I understand that that's normal procedure.
NAPOLITANO: Well, if -- again, if we're talking about the professor whose name we're not supposed to use here, having conversations in public places with Carter Page, with Sam Clovis, with George Papadopoulos.
MACCALLUM: All right, nothing illegal about that.
NAPOLITANO: Correct, but if we're talking about a human being who made it to the inside of the campaign and they thought this was a campaign work and it was really an FBI agent, they need a search warrant for that. And for that, there was no evidence.
MACCALLUM: I got -- I got to ask you one quick question. Jeff Sessions, the president says, "You know what, I shouldn't have hired him, there's a lot of good lawyers out there." Do you agree?
NAPOLITANO: The president is right. I -- pains to me to say it because he's been a friend of mine for 20 years. But the president is right, the president is entitled to an attorney general with whom he has an open conversation and open level of communication with great confidence, sort of like Bobby and Jack Kennedy had.
Almost even though Mitchell went to jail like Nixon and Mitchell had, but an intimate level of communication. Not one where the president is afraid of what he's saying to the A.G.
MACCALLUM: There's a pond Tom. Always good to see you, sir. Thank you very much.
NAPOLITANO: Pleasure, pleasure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACCALLUM: Here now, Corey Lewandowski, former Trump campaign manager and author of Let Trump be Trump. Corey, good to see you tonight, thanks for being here. What is your take on that? Do you believe that the White House, that the president when he talks about spygate, is talking about a different individual who was embedded into the campaign at the behest of the FBI, and who was an agent or is it your understanding that the White House is also talking about this professor who was questioning some sort of peripheral campaign members?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: You know, I haven't spoken to the president about this directly, but it's my understanding based on what -- you know, James Clapper has talked about that he has admitted that they took government resources and tried to get information from the Trump campaign to "protect the campaign from outside influence".
And so, the question was, is this an individual who was on the periphery as you mentioned, this professor whom as I ran the campaign for 18 months had never met and don't believe I ever had any communication with.
And he was trying to work his way through other individuals like Carter Page and George Papadopoulos who also had no decision rights in the campaign, whatsoever. Or did the FBI actually take somebody and put them on the inside of the campaign? And I don't think the president's ever alluded to the fact that the FBI has done this, but we know that Clapper has said that there were individuals. He isn't when I use the term spying, right?
But he said there were individuals who the government knew we're trying to gain access to the Trump campaign but were not gaining access to the Clinton campaign.
MACCALLUM: All right. Well, we know they said there was at least one. And I -- it's my understanding that everyone's talking about the same person. But maybe that'll prove to be wrong. Do you think the president's going to drop this term Spygate now, given the fact that Trey Gowdy and Judge Andrew Napolitano, say that -- you know, that's just not the case?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, no, no, no. I think -- I think, what we have to do is we have to get to the very bottom of this. We have seen lie, after lie, after lie, from either Jim Comey or his former deputy -- you know, Andrew McCabe, and Strzok, and Page and we all saw that the FBI had some real problems in this.
And if they were using government surveillance through the FISA Court to spy on American citizens based on a dossier that was paid for by the Clinton campaign, and they didn't disclose that, that is spygate and is a violation of Fourth Amendment, and the American people should be very concerned.
MACCALLUM: Well, what do you think about what the judge just said about Jeff Sessions?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think, it's the president's prerogative to be able to choose an attorney general much like I know he referenced Bobby Kennedy. But I also think of the relationship that Barack Obama and Eric Holder had. And Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress, he was very public that he was then President Obama's wingman, he said it very publicly they had a very close relationship, an unapologetic relationship. And I agree with the judge that, that is the type of relationship that the president, the Attorney General should have for the very tight conversation they need to have.
MACCALLUM: So, the president tweeted today -- you know, "There's a lot of good lawyers out there, I never should have picked Jeff Sessions." Is he about to fire him do you think?
LEWANDOWSKI: No, I don't think he's going to fire him, but I think the president's been very clear in his disappointment that Jeff had recused himself after he had been nominated without telling the president he was going to do that. And I think it was incumbent on, then, Senator Sessions to say, "If I'm going to be appointed to this position, I cannot be involved if there's an investigation." That conversation from what we know never took place, I think the president's disappointed in that.
MACCALLUM: I thought it was interesting that there was this big breaking news story last night that the president asked Jeff Sessions to reconsider his refusal when really that is something that the president has never been shy about talking about. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He should have certainly let us know if he was going to recused himself, and we would have fused they put a different attorney general and --
If he would have recused himself before the job, I would have said, "Thanks, Jeff, but I'm not going to take you."
If he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me prior to taking office and I would have quite simply picked somebody else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: I'm pretty clear on that, hasn't he?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well it's been the same breaking news for the last 15 months of his administration that if he knew that Jeff Sessions was going to recused himself from a potential investigation into the Russia hoax, then, he wouldn't have appointed him. That's not breaking news, it's the same consistent message that this president has said, basically, from the day that Jeff recused himself.
MACCALLUM: Yes, and even if -- you know, I mean, it's pretty clear that if he was urged to honor recused himself, he said no, and he stuck around. So that, that what the outcome of that. Of course, stick around yourself for a moment if you would because also breaking this evening, the judge telling Michael Avenatti to "Stop the police publicity tour." Unwelcome words for the TV regular, Stormy Daniels's attorney from a federal judge has issued this warning. If you want to represent Stormy Daniels in the federal probe into Trump attorney Michael Cohen, you got to knock off the TV appearances and the tweeting. So, guess which one he picked.
Chief national correspondent Ed Henry, live tonight with more on Avenatti and what happened at today in New York City bombshell developments in the case of Michael Cohen. Hi, Ed.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Good to see you, Martha. Sex lives and audiotapes, just some of the headlines out of the courtroom today as well as shredded documents that the FBI and their officials were told are now trying to piece back together in this case only giving more fodder to Michael Cohen's attorneys, who say that Michael Avenatti has created a circus atmosphere in this case that's why they do not want him involved.
Cohen's team using that point to argue that Avenatti should be allowed to - - should not be allowed to join the case involving the raid of Cohen's home and office. Alleging he leaked sensitive bank records that revealed Cohen's consulting contracts, and that his practically non-stop cable T.V. appearances have included all kinds of misrepresentations.
Now, Judge Kimba Wood seem to give Cohen's team some credibility on that, but warning Avenatti to stop his "publicity tour" on T.V. So Avenatti, ended up withdrawing his motion to participate in this particular court battle over the raid of Cohen's hotel and office, though, Avenatti will still represent porn actress Stormy Daniels, true to form when he left the courtroom, we quickly did more cable T.V. interviews and held a news conference where he hiked the idea that audio tapes recorded by Cohen are going to be as explosive as the Nixon tapes during Watergate.
Now Cohen's attorneys acknowledged he kept hours of audio tapes of his conversations with various people, Avenatti declaring he knows for a fact the President Trump's voice is on some of these tapes, though, it is unclear exactly what was said, and whether any of it was inappropriate. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL AVENATTI, LAWYER OF STORMY DANIELS: We had Nixon tapes years ago, and now we have Trump tapes. There Mr. Cohen's attorney was forced to admit that Michael Cohen was making recordings of various parties.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president's voices on the tapes?
AVENATTI: That's our understanding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And your clients' voices on the tapes?
AVENATTI: My clients' voice is not on the tapes to the best of our knowledge --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now federal prosecutors also revealed today that Cohen whose basic potential campaign finance and bank fraud charges had a document shredder, and they need a few more weeks to basically reconstruct what may have been shredded.
Remember Judge Wood had appointed a special master to go through the documents to help Cohen and the president decide what might be privileged material. We're told that the retired judge doing that has gone through thirteen thousand pages already, but there's a whole lot more to go through. And the judge gave them a June 15th deadline to finish. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you very much. So, Corey Lewandowski, standing by. Corey, you know Michael Cohen very well, you spent a lot of time with him. Are there tapes has he talked to you about audio tapes and is the President on them?
LEWANDOWSKI: You know, I haven't spoken to Michael about it, but what we do know now is that -- you know, Attorney Avenatti, has one thing, and one thing only that he wants to do which is self-promotion. He had the opportunity to join this case, and the judge said, either you can join the case and be quiet, or you can continue to go on television and promote yourself and this isn't manually. I think was just settled a lawsuit for $10 million himself Avenatti did. So his goal is to go and get as much free publicity as he can by himself and not actually see any justice performed here.
MACCALLUM: All right. But the reports were that the President was very upset when heard about this raid on Cohen's office, so you -- just one more time, are there tapes and is the President on them?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I don't know if there are tapes and I don't know if the President is on them but you have to think in the history of our country this is unparalleled that this is unprecedented that the president's personal attorney was raided by a government agency while he's sitting in office. Can you imagine for one second if the president, if it was President Obama and the Justice Department raided his own personal attorney, the media being uproar and there has been very limited uproar. There's a very serious concern here about attorney-client privilege and there is no question that at one period of time, Michael Cohen was the president's attorney and the conversations that he had are -- were with the President in are part of that attorney-client privilege which Michael cannot reveal. That's up to the client to reveal and Donald Trump, President Trump was the client.
MACCALLUM: So if that's -- if that's the case, there'll be a battle ahead on attorney-client privilege to be sure. Cory, thank you. Good to see you tonight.
LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Coming up next, high drama just blocks from here in New York City. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is in town to sit down with a messenger at the highest level from North Korea. And what about China? How do trade talks play into all of this? The president's top economic adviser Larry Kudlow on the story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So tonight a dinner not far from here could decide the fate of the North Korea summit. You've got Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in town and he is meeting with a top emissary as we speak from North Korea. A man has been at the forefront of the attempted summit Kim Yong Chol. June 12th was on and then it blew up and nobody knows if it will be happening or if it's going to be pushed later so this tonight we wait. Meanwhile, trade talks are ongoing with China, a country that clearly has played a role in all of this. The president has said that intellectual property theft and trade imbalance will end. Here now Larry Kudlow, Director of the National Economic Council. Larry, good to see you tonight. Thanks for being with us.
LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, UNITED STATES NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Thanks Martha, I appreciate it.
MACCALLUM: I guess, you know, my first question is about the sort of balance that we've seen between the ongoing trade negotiations with China. You know President Trump said a week or so ago that he was suspicious about the second meeting that the North Korean leader had with President Xi and then shortly -- because he thought that sort of messed things up in a way. Then shortly after that, you had a ZTE deal that was reached. Now you've got this second sort of slam in the opposite direction with saying that you're going to have 25 percent tariffs on 50 billion of Chinese goods. So what's the connection of all these things, Larry?
KUDLOW: Well, look, you know, one thought right now you've got absolutely crucial discussions and negotiations and communications virtually all over the globe. I mean, you mentioned North Korea and Secretary Pompeo operating there. Presumably, the President will be over there in Singapore in a week or so. There's a G7 meeting coming up, there are European discussions with us about trade, there are NAFTA discussions with us about trade, there are Chinese discussions. President Trump is a change agent. He's trying to change a number of things you know, including unfair and illegal trading practices. He wants the U.S. to be treated fairly, he wants reciprocity, he wants peace -- he wants peace and denuclearization on the Korean Peninsula. Now, these are breath-taking developments. I happen to think it's all to the good and I think that the president is conducting himself in a terrific manner. And by the way, he doesn't always play by the norms of Washington.
MACCALLUM: No, which is why it's so fascinating to watch. And he does link trade with policy in a way that we typically haven't seen. So my question was you know, do you think that the trade negotiation with China is that -- is a baseline for whether or not China is going to allow this North Korea talk to go forward. And you just said that you think he will be in Singapore on June 12th. Is that -- is the White House saying they believe this thing's back on?
KUDLOW: Nothing is definite so I don't want to get ahead of that curve but I think the expectations are very encouraging. Look, China trade doesn't depend on Korea. Korea doesn't depend on China trade. I acknowledge that they may be linked in a grand landscape if you will, but the China trade look, the United States needs China to get rid of these unfair and illegal trading practices. We can't let them steal our technology. We can't let them force us to give technology over. They have to drop tariff barriers and non-tariff barriers. Now, some progress is being made Wilbur Ross, Secretary Ross is going to be over there. I think he's actually there now. I'm crossing the dateline. Progress has been made. Steve Mnuchin made progress. But the president again is emphasizing to the Chinese as we've told them in you know person-to-person meetings we are going to protect our family jewels.
We are going to protect crucial, critical, strategic technologies for example. We are going to put imports on China's that might steal those technologies. I think that's very important. We are going to demand that they changed a lot of their policies. And with respect to investment here in the United States, this is not new. The Chinese have heard this before. Their response by the way was quite mild because they have heard this before. But again, to get growth, to get more American exports, to get reciprocity with Europe, to get better trade deals with China, it will help American jobs, it will help America's employment and wages and it has to be done.
MACCALLUM: Understood. And I think it is fascinating to watch all of the different areas where so much work is being done. I guess how far out do you think a trade deal with China is? Can you put an approximate time frame on it, Larry?
KUDLOW: No, I wouldn't even try. I mean, this is a long process. It's a long negotiation. Part of those negotiations as the President have said, there will be times when he employs tariffs as an enforcement mechanism or maybe a negotiating -- there are times when tariffs will not be used. These things have their ups and downs. There are cycles to this. No, I wouldn't want to put a deadline on that. I just hope that we continue to make a progress.
MACCALLUM: I'm short on time but I want to get your reaction to one more thing with regard to North Korea. There was this story that said that they plan to keep their nuclear weapons, but they are offering burger chains to open in North Korea.
KUDLOW: It doesn't sound like a winner to me but I'm not -- I'm not running the State Department and I'm certainly not President Trump. Denuclearization is a very key part of the U.S. demands. Burger King's, fine, the more the merrier I guess, but that's different that denuclearization.
MACCALLUM: Yes, well, I could see why if you're in North Korea, you'd want to have a Five Guys on the corner.
KUDLOW: Those guys need -- North Koreans need food, there's no story about that. They might get some help from us if they do denuclearize. That's the possibility.
MACCALLUM: We will see. Larry, thank you so much. Good to see you tonight.
KUDLOW: Thank you, Martha. Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So coming up, this is a very significant story here. I'm going to talk to a former NFL player who says that his career was ruined after he was expelled from graduate school following a sexual misconduct investigation even though he was never charged with any crime. Plus students in Parkland, Florida set to graduate on Sunday but many remain frustrated with politicians like Governor Rick Scott after the February 14th shooting that left 17 dead and 17 others wounded. The governor joins me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to fix this for all those 17 angels, we need to fix this. It's enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So coming to us moments ago from the Broward County state attorney's office in Florida, you should know there is a new chilling video that is out and appears to be shot by the Parkland School shooter and he's bragging about his plans. It was recorded the morning before he murdered 17 people and wounded 17 others. This is just a freeze frame from it. We are not going to show this to you.
It is a sick attempt to gain attention and we just simply are not going to put it on the air. Joining me now, Florida governor Rick Scott, who has been working in his state to try to make sure that this never happens again. I guess initially, governor, your thoughts on this latest piece of information.
RICK SCOTT, GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: That's disgusting. It's just horrible when you think about these poor families. You know, and you -- I can't imagine if it happened to your, you know, child or your grandchild, you know, our schools need to be safe. They need -- we all as parents want to make sure our kids are safe at home.
They need to be safe when they go to school and my goal is it never happens again in Florida. We worked hard to pass legislation that, you know, moved the ball down the court to try to make it safer for all parents and all kids.
MACCALLUM: You have raised the age to 21.
SCOTT: Yes, so we did was one, we said all of our schools are going to have law enforcement officers and --
MACCALLUM: And how are you doing with that?
SCOTT: They are required to implement it by the school year, but they were already implemented as soon as this happened. And we actually even at -- even at the school there at Stoneman Douglas, we provided highway safety right afterwards because the parents didn't think there was enough right afterwards, so I added highway patrol.
The number one of the schools are going to have is law enforcement officers. Number two, more mental health counselors. Number three, we gave them more money. We are already giving them money every year for hardening, bullet proof glass, metal detectors, fewer entrances and exits.
Number four, we said if you are threatening harm to yourself or somebody else through a court process with due process, you're not going to have access to a weapon. And you shouldn't.
MACCALLUM: I mean that's such a huge part of this. What about accountability of the sheriff, the police officers who went to his house 27 times? The security guard who ran away? Where is the accountability for the legal, the government arm that really failed your school?
SCOTT: What about the FBI?
MACCALLUM: Yeah.
SCOTT: They have had, you know, informed twice. One time, very specifically, five weeks ahead of time. In few weeks (inaudible) about the accountability. So here's what I was able to do with regard to the sheriff's office. What we did was we have an investigation going on, independent, by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
They are going through, you know, the way they do it is start with all the videos and start doing all the interviews to find out exactly what happened. As a governor, if I find malfeasance, then I, you know, I have the opportunity to hold people accountable, and I will.
MACCALLUM: Meaning they will be fired.
SCOTT: Yeah, absolutely. So, but here's what's frustrating to me. Have we heard anything from the FBI?
MACCALLUM: No.
SCOTT: Nothing. Now, think about it, I have had three shootings.
MACCALLUM: Incredible.
SCOTT: I have the Pulse, I have the airport and I have had this. And to this date, I mean as far as -- I have never heard of any accountability. So, I believe in accountability. We all do. We do it with our families. And so I am going through a process in the state, a thorough investigation, we will hold people accountable.
MACCALLUM: I want to ask you a quick question about the election and somewhat peripherally related because you are running for senate against Bill Nelson who has been the Democrat senator for many, many years from Florida. There is a lot of people who have moved from Puerto Rico to Florida after Hurricane Maria and there are efforts by the Democratic Party to sign them up as Democrats because most of them do not choose a party affiliation. Is that going to have an impact on the Florida election?
SCOTT: Well, first off, anything that happened with Puerto Rico should not be about politics. I'm going back there tomorrow for my sixth visit. And I'm going back there to try to help them. I work with the governor. Governor Rossello, he invited me back again to say how do we help you get your economy going.
MACCALLUM: Do you believe these new numbers from the study that 4,600 people lost their lives in that hurricane not 64 or whatever they initially said it was?
SCOTT: Whatever the number is, I mean, you know, it's horrible. You know, we went through Irma and my whole goal, that whole hurricane was I want to keep everybody alive. We rebuild your house but we got to keep you alive. And so, you know, whatever the number is, you don't want anybody to lose their life.
That's why I have taken utility companies over there. I worked with, you know, everybody has said how do we get Puerto Rico back running again? And all the Puerto Ricans that came to Florida, how do we get them a job, get their kids in school. Make sure they are part of our community. We are a melting pot. We are the best melting pot in the world.
MACCALLUM: Thank you. I want to talk to you more about the campaign but we're going to have to save it for next time. Thank you so much. It's good to have you here tonight.
So coming up, an ex-NFL football player is suing his former University of MichiganSstate, and you know they've had a lot of problems lately with all of this. And he says that unproven sexual assault claims have ruined his life and his NFL career. You will hear from him personally. Keith Mumphery and his attorney join us next.
MACCALLUM: And this just in, the very first photo of -- you knew there was going to be a photo of this right? Kim Kardashian and President Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Mike Huckabee says this is actually very serious stuff. And he's up next on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM KARDASHIAN, TELEVISION PERSONALITY: So far the White House has been really receptive to my calls and I am grateful for that and I'm not going to stop that because people personally don't like Trump.
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MACCALLUM: Developing tonight, he is from a county that has only two stop lights and he was the first NFL player ever from his hometown. But now ex- NFL and former Michigan State football star Keith Mumphery is in the fight of his life. This MeToo target says he is innocent. He has just filed a lawsuit against his college.
The former Texan's wide receiver was cut from the team two days after the "Detroit Free Press" broke this story. He was never charged with any crime. He is here exclusively for the first time on television to tell his side of the story in moments. But, first, Trace Gallagher gives us the back story. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS: Martha, both sides agree that on March 17, 2015 the woman in this case invited Keith Mumphrey back to her Michigan State dorm room and there are text messages and a picture indicating that at the very least the atmosphere was flirtatious. But the woman claims she was drunk and unable to give consent. Mumphrey says she was not intoxicated and surveillance video shows at the time she was walking with a, quote, steady gate and had no trouble keeping her balance.
Keith Mumphrey claims the woman opposed him using a condom and they did not have sex. The woman claims she was sexually assaulted and filed a claim with campus police the next day. Now, remember, Michigan State follows the so-called Dear Colleague guidelines issued during the Obama administration. So instead of using the legal guilt standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, the university threshold is more likely than not.
And under the Dear Colleague policy, the accused is not allowed to question the accuser. And yet, despite that, after months of investigating the university found that Mumphrey did not violate the school sexual misconduct policy. Even the county prosecutor decided not to file charges citing a lack of evidence and a lack of cooperation by the accuser.
But unlike a court of law where a not guilty verdict cannot be retried, Title IX investigations do allow double jeopardy. So the woman appeals Mumphrey's acquittal and Michigan State reopens the case. But Keith Mumphery is now playing for the Houston Texans and the notification by the school is sent to an old e-mail account so he doesn't know the case is back open and does not offer a defense.
And In March of 2017, the university finds him responsible for sexual misconduct. He is then cut by the Texans, cannot get a tryout with any other team and because is he banned from Michigan State, he can't finish his graduate degree. Mumphery has now filed a lawsuit against Michigan State, alleging the university has left him with no viable job prospects, among other things. We reached out to MSU for a comment. So far, no response, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. Here now, former Michigan State and ex-NFL player Keith Mumphery andnhis attorney Andrew Miltenberg. Keith, thank you for being here tonight. It's good to have you with us. I'm going to ask you the tough question first. Did you sexually assault this woman?
KEITH MUMPHERY, EX NFL PLAYER: No, ma'am.
MACCALLUM: What happened that night?
MUMPHERY: She invited me over to her room. I actually met her through Tinder. She invited me over to her room She sent me a few pictures. We talked and she told me want me to come over when her roommates leave. So, I came over. Roommates left. It was just me and her there. As soon as I got in there she started undressing. So she basically made it known, you know, what she wanted to do.
So fast forward a little bit, we got to a situation and the situation was about the condom. I told her I did not have sex without a condom. So that's when she flipped and everything just went south. So I basically, you know, told her like hey, it's time for me to leave. I don't have time for this. I basically said I'm going to have to leave. I'm black and you're white. And I told her that and I left. And that was the end of that.
MACCALLUM: So you never had sexual intercourse with this woman?
MUMPHERY: No, ma'am. I never did. No, ma'am.
MACCALLUM: And is true that you say one of your siblings had a baby at a young age and that's why -- that's always your policy in terms of birth control?
MUMPHERY: Yes. I don't have any kids. So I mean, I'm not going to have any kids until I'm married so, that was one of the main reasons.
MACCALLUM: All right. So you think that all of this is behind you because the school found you not guilty. The prosecutor dropped the charges after they looked at it and said you know, there is nothing here, we are not moving forward. So then you go off to begin your life and your dream as a player for the Houston Texans and suddenly -- you go back to play in a golf tournament at Michigan State and suddenly someone comes up to you and says you need to leave the property right now because she appealed your case and now we decided you're guilty? What was your reaction?
MUMPHERY: I was hurt. My feelings were crushed.
MACCALLUM: And what did you think about your future? Because then the story comes out in the "Detroit Free Press," and then what happens when they call you into the office of the Texans?
MUMPHERY: You know, basically, they tell me that, you know, (inaudible) came out bad press and we have zero tolerance with this.
MACCALLUM: So Andrew Miltenberg, does he have a case? Can he turn his life around?
ANDREW MILTENBERG, KEITH MUMPHERY'S ATTORNEY: Absolutely. I think the NFL should welcome him back and give him an opportunity. He has been the subject of a victim of a terrible injustice and he has overcome such tremendous hardship and such terrific odds in his life to make it to the pinnacle of his dreams. All to have it ripped away years after he's left the school by allegations that he was found not responsible for previously.
MACCALLUM: Keith, do you think that race plays any role on this?
HUMPHERY: I would say to a certain extent, yes. You know, because when you look at it, I'm black and she is white and I just feel like, you know, it should have never happened. Like, it shouldn't like, the way Michigan State did me, it should have never happened and I feel like it hurt me -- it hurts. It hurts.
MACCALLUM: I can imagine. Your life was derailed and, you know, Andrew, what about the woman in this case, you know, what did she -- what is she claiming now?. She has not step forward and she has not talked about it, right.
MILTENBERG: That's correct. And she's claiming some sort of trauma, but what I don't want to lose sight of is that I think that after you read this entire narrative, you understand that Michigan State, after years of ignoring tremendous problems --
MACCALLUM: This is the school that Larry Nassar worked at. We should point out there in the middle of that mess.
MILTENBERG: With Larry Nassar -- in the midst of that, turns around and we believe makes Keith Mumphery the poster child for how hard they are now going to now go after this issue.
MACCALLUM: It's unfortunate. That would be unfortunate if that's the case. It's incredible. Thank you. And please keep us posted, Keith. We wish you luck because we know you are trying to get your life back on track and that you would love to play for the NFL. You say that you want to be a role model for the kids in your town. You grew up in a very, very rural small town in Georgia and everybody there looks up to you, and we would love to follow this case and we will see where it goes. Thank you for speaking with us, Keith and Andrew. Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you both.
So, coming up next, after Roseanne apologizes, now she says it was the Ambien talking. And Kim Kardashian takes a meeting at the White House. President Trump looks happy in the picture. He was tweeting, quote, great meeting with Kim Kardashian today. Talked about prison reform and sentencing. This is a deadly serious topic for Governor Mike Huckabee. And he says he is with Kim on this. He's up next.
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MACCALLUM: So, the Roseanne saga and the NFL kneeling debacle has sparked a lot of debate in this country. ABC dumped Roseanne over the racist tweets and the NFL put an end to kneeling during the anthem after public outcry. But is this all of this potentially a slippery slope? Joining me now, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee. He's also a Fox News contributor. Governor, good to see you tonight. Editorial piece out today suggested that, you know, sort of liberals killed Roseanne and conservatives ruined football with all of this debate. What do you say?
MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's bad manners that's hurting both. Racism is inappropriate. It's inexcusable. There is no place in it for a culture where people are supposed to behave with respect towards others. And there also ought to be respect for the flag.
So you know, it's easy to say well, it's ABC's fault or its Ambien's fault. No, it's the people who do things that really are uncivil. And that show disrespect for the other people in a civilized society. And the fact that there are consequences for that, Martha, I think in the long run, that's a good thing.
MACCALLUM: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because Roseanne yesterday gave what sort of sounded like a pretty sincere apology via Twitter. Then today she blamed everybody. You know, her colleagues who threw her under the bus. Then she says Ambien. You know, she said she was in an Ambien-fueled Twitter, I don't know what, in the middle of the night.
So the company that makes Ambien tweeted this, while all pharmaceutical treatments have side effects, racism is not a known side effect of any Sanofi medication. You know, it would maybe have behooved her, governor, to use something that she doesn't use often which is to just be quiet for a little while. Be silent perhaps for a moment.
HUCKABEE: It's called judgment and it's ultimately her fingers that typed the tweet, and so she can say it was the medication but she is responsible. We all have to accept responsibility for what we do and sometimes we do dumb things and we have consequences for those. And, you know, the first thing she said I thought was the right thing when she just said it was inexcusable, and she said to her fans don't try to defend me.
MACCALLUM: Exactly.
HUCKABEE: That was when I think she was --
MACCALLUM: That was when she was on the right track.
HUCKABEE: Right.
MACCALLUM: I know you want to give us a thought on this, Kim Kardashian is defending a woman named Alice Marie Johnson who is in prison. She's a great grandmother in prison, for being involved with a drug group as an intermediary. What do you think about that?
HUCKABEE: Well, count me as somebody who doesn't keep up with the Kardashians, but I'm glad that Kim Kardashian is using her celebrity for something that's very important. We need to be really changing the policies about how we deal with the criminal justice system. As my prison director in Arkansas used to say and it's a brilliant understanding, we are locking a lot of people up that we are mad at rather than the ones we are afraid of. And the result is we have as far incarcerated an extraordinary number of people who have no business being in prison.
These are non-violent offenders. We are mad at them. They have done things that made us mad, but we're really not afraid of them. And the fact is, it's costing us more money to put a person in prison for one year than it would to put them in college for a year, pay full tuition, room and board, buy books and give them spending money. It's unsustainable.
And Martha, when you put people in a lock-up situation and then you do something that is really stupid, which we did back in the `90s, called three strikes and you are out and you go through this no parole approach, what you've done then is you take the one thing that can change people's lives away from them. Hope. You take hope away, you've destroyed the future of that individual and the criminal justice system.
MACCALLUM: I know you got some heat for that stance during the campaign back when you ran, but you stand by your word and you feel strongly about it and now we're glad you brought your opinion here tonight to talk to us. Thank you, governor, always a pleasure to see you, sir.
HUCAKBEE: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Quote of the night, up next.
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MACCALLUM: Tonight's quote of the night from "New York Time's" White House correspondent Michael Shearer who shared this observation on twitter earlier today, quote, odd day -- Russian journalist says he faked his own death. Kim Kardashian is at a White House meeting with the president's senior adviser. Donald trump is obsessing again about crowd size. The maker of a drug has to deny that racism is a side effect. And it's only 10:40 a.m. Typical day it (inaudible). We're going to be back here tomorrow night at 7:00 with lots more news to play on "The Story." Now it's to D.C. as Tucker Carlson takes over. Have a good night.
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