Larry Kudlow on Paul Ryan's retirement, trade with China

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This is a rush transcript from "The Story," April 11, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Live in Washington, D.C., where there is breaking news out of the White House tonight. The president warning Bashar al-Assad and Russia in no uncertain terms that missiles will be coming as Russia takes him at his word and reportedly moves some of their ships out of the region. Also, tonight, Paul Ryan's next move and in California, Governor Jerry Brown has now agreed to send National Guard troops to the border. More on all of that in a moment, but first, the latest from the White House is that there is no decision yet on when. But the president bellicose tweets got Russia's attention clearly. The Kremlin continues to stick by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the wake of that ghastly chemical attack. We are keeping an eye, obviously, on all of that tonight. And back here in D.C., a huge shift is underway. The long rumored, but now real departure of House Speaker Paul Ryan is underway. Chief National Correspondent Ed Henry joins us now live from the White House with breaking news tonight in both stories. Good evening, Ed.

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, great to see you. President Trump quick to praise Paul Ryan saying he leaves behind a legacy of achievement. Central to that, of course, the tax cut that they passed together last year and will be central to the Republican case in the upcoming midterms. But Ryan's exit is also a reminder about Republican angst about those midterms and also is a sign that Republicans in Congress are not likely to get anything else big done by the end of this year. In fact, Ryan right now, behind closed doors, behind me with the president and other GOP leaders having dinner.

Though, I can tell you, I've spoken to a very senior Trump advisor who knows the president was furious with Ryan during the 2016 campaign for taking so long to rally behind him. In turn, Ryan is not happy over the last year or so with some of the president's tweets that have distracted from the GOP legislative agenda, such as the tweets you mentioned today where the president appeared to be doing what has long criticized -- telegraphing military action by declaring: 'Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready, Russia, because they will be coming. Nice and new and smart. You shouldn't be partners with the gas- killing animal who kills his people and enjoys it!'

And within a few hours, the Defense Secretary Jim Mattis arrived here to brief the president on the latest military options in the oval office. And there was a meeting of the key national security players shared by Vice President Mike Pence. For some reason, the president did not attend that meeting. Sarah Sanders insisting the president was not telegraphing military action and has a range of options before him. She also pushed back on claims from Russia that the chemical weapons attack was staged by a Syrian rebel group, even though Secretary Mattis was noncommittal on whether he can say with certainty the Assad regime is to blame. Watch.


SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The intelligence provided certainly paints a different picture in the president holds Syria and Russia responsible for this chemical weapons attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen enough evidence to blame the Assad regime for this most recent chemical attack?

JAMES MATTIS, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We're still assessing the intelligence ourselves and our allies. We're still working on this.


HENRY: There are reports that Russia is trying to show muscle. Now, has about 11 warships in the vicinity of its naval base in Syria. The U.S., meanwhile, already has a guided missile destroyer in position off the coast of Syria. The USS Donald Cook, you can see there, roughly 75 tomahawk missiles on board, 20-surface to air missiles in case Russian warplanes decide to challenge them. The bottom line is, remember the president said Monday, a decision would be coming within 24-48 hours. That's why now, we watch and wait. Martha?

MACCALLUM: We watch and wait. Ed Henry, thank you very much, Ed. Joining me now from the White House with a look at the economic impact, Larry Kudlow, President Trump's new National Economic Council Director. A lot going on, Larry, good to see you.


MACCALLUM: It's good to have you here tonight. You know, it strikes me when you listen to Ed's report, you know, this idea that Paul Ryan is leaving and that Republicans have decided that there's nothing big that can get accomplished on a legislative agenda in terms of the economy entitlement reform -- those kinds of things which I know have been important to you for years. How do you feel about that?

KUDLOW: I'm not sure I agree with all of it, with respect to Ed. First of all, Paul Ryan is an old friend of mine. He just wants to go home to Wisconsin and be with his family. He's raising kids and he's never there. So, I perfectly --

MACCALLUM: I'm sure everybody gets that.

KUDLOW: -- understand, sure. I mean, you can't blame the guy and he did great service. And by the way, he and President Trump worked really well together on the tax cuts. I mean, I know because I was, I was out of the government but I was deeply involved in that thing. They worked really well on that. Regarding the rest of the year, you know, I wouldn't rule out an infrastructure bill. I know that's being discussed on the Hill and at the White House. There may be similar budget activity that is possible, there may even be some more tax activity. So, we'll see on that.

MACCALLUM: But, you know, obviously, Paul Ryan for years, entitlement reform was the other piece of what he wanted to accomplish, he said that today. Is entitlement reform important to you? Is it important to the president?

KUDLOW: Yes, it is. It's a tough thing to do, probably, even tougher than tax cuts. I've been down that road. I'm an old OMB Green Eyeshade under Ronald Reagan; I know that drill. It's always been a priority. It's always been an issue. And you know, we're cognizant of the fact that in the long run, the budget is not in good shape, OK? We know that. And we're pushing for a more modest government. So, at some point, these things will have to be addressed.

MACCALLUM: How can you cut spending or entitlements if you can't the House in Republican hands?

KUDLOW: Well, look, one point I will make on this as the supply side Reagan tax cutter and Trump tax cutter, this economy is going to grow much faster than most people think. In fact, even the CBO gave us a three percent growth posting for 2018. My point is this: growth solves a lot of the deficit problem, but not all of it. But growth solves a lot. You know, for every one percentage point increase in real GDP, I don't want to get into the weeds here, but every time GDP, the economy grows one percent above the estimates from the CBO. That's worth $3.5 trillion in lower deficits. So, let's think how that works out and we'll see how the elections go. It's hard to forecast right now.

MACCALLUM: What's the impact of losing Paul Ryan on the midterms? I mean, you see all of these Republicans jumping ship. I think there's 41 Republicans who aren't running against office. I mean, how much of this is something that you discuss? Because the economic agenda is what you're going to be driving. It's so central to the president's ability to get re- elected. But I go back to the fact that if you lose all these Republicans and you don't have the kind of leverage in the House, how -- you think tax cuts is going to be enough to help the president through the second term?

KUDLOW: Well, I don't think they'll be tampered with, is what I'm saying. If the Democrats, I say if, I'm not a political pundit but, you know, I would say to people who think there's a democratic landslide is on the way, just hold your horses. Let's see how this turns out. Economic growth, and jobs, and wages are very popular issues. And the people who are saying it's going to be a Republican catastrophe in November, are people who have opposed our tax cuts, do not believe we can have better economic growth, or help jobs and productivity. Let's see. Let's how that works out. Again, they're not going to repeal the tax cuts. And if it's a democratic house, they still won't repeal the tax cuts. I doubt very much if the Senate changes hands. In fact, I think GOP could pick up some Senate seats. I'm not a political pundit, I'm just saying just wait, hang on.

MACCALLUM: Stand by. But I want to put up a tweet that the president tweeted quite a bit today, actually, but one of them had your name in it, and this is the one that did that: ' So much fake news about what's going on in the White House. Very calm and calculated with a big focus on open and fair trade with China and the coming North Korea meeting, and of course, the vicious gas attack and Syria. Feels great to have Bolton and Larry K., on board. I (we) are -- he goes on to say -- doing things that nobody thought possible despite the never ending and corrupt Russia investigation which takes tremendous time and focus. No collusion or obstruction other than I fight back, he writes. So, now they do the unthinkable and raid a lawyer's office for information. Bad!' Well, you know, now, tweets are allowed to be longer, so there's about seven stories in there. But let's cut to the middle of Larry, where he talks about what you're doing in terms of China and trade. This is a very big story, and we have seen some movement on China's part. How substantial is this?

KUDLOW: By the way, thank you, sir for the tweet. I appreciate it very, very much. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, now there's good, sometimes they're not so nice.

KUDLOW: John Bolton, the new National Security -- he's an old friend of mine going back to Reagan days. So, it'd a great pleasure to work with John, and NSC work very closely together. To your point, people continue. This is my take. I've spent a lot of time with him just in the last week or so. He's been great, very accessible. We've talked about a lot of things. We've talked about messaging and so forth. People -- this trade thing is sort of vexing to the world. My take is, good things are out there, OK. President Xi in China gave a very conciliatory speech two nights ago. Very important because up to now, all of our trade initiatives have been insulted and beaten down in rough language from the Chinese. Very bad. Xi breaks that. And Xi also talked about the technology transfers and the stealing of our intellectual property.

Those are key issues for us. Key issues for the president. So, that's good. The president tweeted back, also conciliatory. So, I'm hopeful along the process, we will see some good negotiations. But I'm also saying, as the president, we're going to have tariffs in our package. People know that. Whether they're used or not remains to be seen, but they may be used, if necessary. And I think, Martha, the key point here is the issue of technology. Now, there's trade deficit and agriculture and those, and all of the rest. Technology; they are continued intellectual property theft and forced technological transfers from our companies. And they've made life very difficult. To me, they're not in the 21st century. They can get the technology that makes America the leader, so they're going to try to steal it -- we won't let them. You know, I'm a free trader, I'm not a big tariff guy, but we cannot let China get away with these unfair and, frankly, illegal acts.

MACCALLUM: So, is it fair to say that you think, based on what you've heard this week that there's going to be negotiation with China; there is not going to be a trade war?

KUDLOW: Well, to use an old Reagan thought, trust, but verify. So, we've heard these promises from China before. Now, they are welcome now. It's a change in their whole attitude, that's good, and the president responded, that's good. So, yes, I think negotiations -- but folks should not think there'll be no tariffs. I can't say that. The president will never say that. He put that out there.

MACCALLUM: What about the soybean farmer I spoke with last night?

KUDLOW: People should take that very seriously.

MACCALLUM: What about the soybean farmer that I spoke with last night, who's very concerned? He voted for this president, everybody in his farming area of his state voted for this president, and now he feels like he's going to be bad for business.

KUDLOW: Well, again, I would say to the farmer -- love to meet him -- stay cool. We don't know -- we don't even know what we're going to do yet. There are no tariffs yet. I want to make that point. Nothing has been implemented or executed. We're in a stage now. The economics team and the trade team are working on options and so forth. They will come out in due course. You have to have public hearings and then private analysis. Nothing is going to happen much for the next couple of months, in my view, that gives plenty of time for the leaders to negotiate or at least keep talking to each other. We're in constantly in communication with the Chinese folks, constantly. So, the farmers, I love them, God bless them. Relax. Just kind of relax. This is Larry talking to them. I want economic --

MACCALLUM: We'll bring our former backs so you guys can talk to each other on the set.

KUDLOW: I'm going up to the Hill tomorrow.

MACCALLUM: I would love that, by the way.

KUDLOW: I'd love it too, by the way. I'm going up to hill tomorrow to talk to Republican conference. And I understand that farm issues are going to come up. Here, let me go back, Kudlow, growth. Growth, solves a lot of problems and businesses really improving. So, let's not go nuts. Let's relax and see how things work out; have confidence. Have confidence in this administration and the American economy.

MACCALLUM: Larry Kudlow, good to see you. I got a lot more to talk about. You're going to have to come back. But thank you so much, it's a pleasure. Good to have you here tonight, Larry.

Coming up next, remember this?


JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I knew that there might come a day when I would need a record of what had happened, not just to defend myself, but defend the FBI and our integrity as an institution and the independence of our investigative function.


MACCALLUM: So, now days ahead of Comey's tell-all new book, new notes have suddenly surfaced that back up the fired FBI director's claims against the president. Have we seen this movie before? Senator Lindsey Graham joins me next. Also, tonight, Qatar leadership visits the White House as the possibility of war in Syria escalates. Will the Gulf alliance stand by the United States and potentially against Syria and Russia, an exclusive interview with the deputy prime minister next.


TAMIM BIN HAMAD AL-THANI, EMIR OF QATAR: We speak today and we see the suffering of the Syrian people. And me and the president, we see eye-to- eye that this matter has to stop immediately.



MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, President Trump fires away on Twitter saying that the United States is ready to strike in Syria. 'Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready, Russia, because they will be coming, nice, and new, and smart!' Says the president. 'You shouldn't be partners with a gas-killing animal who kills his people and enjoys!' Wrote the president. A Russian spokesperson responded this way: 'Smart missiles must fly toward terrorist, not a legitimate government that has been fighting international terrorism in its territory for several years.'

If or when there is U.S. Military action, our men and women stationed in Qatar will play a key role. For its part, Qatar has long supported the Syrian rebels. And just yesterday, Qatar's leaders met with President Trump at the White House. Joining me now on 'The Story' exclusive tonight, his Excellency, Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani, Qatar's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister. Your Excellency, thank you so much for being here today. Obviously, there is a lot going on in your part of the world. If the United States were to launch missiles into Syria, would Qatar support that?

MOHAMMED BIN ABDULRAHMAN AL-THANI, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND FOREIGN MINISTER OF QATAR: Well, first of all, let us acknowledge that what's happening in Syria since the last several years, were crimes committed against the people, against the civilians, and the regime there, the Syrian regime. And Bashar al-Assad is responsible for those crimes. And we are seeing eye-to-eye with the ISIS and disposition. Actually, we need to see an action, again, as to what's happening there in Syria, to stop the Syrian regime from killing their own people. And whatever decisions are going to be taken, that will save the Syrian civilians. We are going to support it. This is what we've been calling for the last seven years.

MACCALLUM: Talk to me a little bit about the blockade, which has been in place since June, and was imposed by Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt. Now, the latest discussion is potentially drawing a line in carving Qatar into an island, essentially, and cutting you off even more dramatically than you are right now. What is your response to that?

AL-THANI: Well, first of all, let us say that this blockade and the entire crisis was a needless crisis and President Trump is agreeing that this crisis is needless and it needs to end, and be gone -- they need to be united again. The crisis has started without any reasons. It started with a cyberattack with the crime against our government that targeted our news agency and all that, to create the reason. This is showing that reasons are not solid and the foundation of this crisis is not solid. Trying to cut-off Qatar is not the solution. What were their grievances and their concerns which they never presented in the last 10 months. They failed to -- even to come to the table to face us.

MACCALLUM: Some of the things that they have mentioned is that they want you to ban them on some brotherhood from Qatar, to end support for Hamas, to expel terrorists Saudi Arabia would like sent back to Riyadh. Are any of those things, things that you would consider negotiating with them on? I know the president wants to try to solve this problem, wants to be helpful in this -- are those issues that you would be negotiable?

AL-THANI: Let us set the course straight, Qatar never supported, never even tolerated the people who are raising funds for them. Those accusations has been falsely accused by the blockading states against Qatar. They are accusing us that we are supporting the Muslim brotherhood, why? The Muslim brotherhood is both of the political society of their countries and asking us to expel Muslim brotherhood in Qatar. And Muslim brotherhood -- there's no Muslim brotherhood --

MACCALLUM: None of those seems are issues, why are they all bonded against you?

AL-THANI: Well, the issue, the issue with that, they've been continuing and trying to provoke Qatar, and to get Qatar into this, into submission to and to take over Qatar's sovereignty, and to put under their guard, which was never accepted by Qatar. Since 1995, there were an attempt for a coup against the Emir. Then in 2014, they would do their ambassadors and the crisis being contained. And this year, the crisis -- the majors being taken and this crisis, in which they have created, actually -- to our Qatari people. They wanted Qatar to -- of the differences that we have with our policies with them, they wanted Qatar to be totally under their guardianship, and say whatever they want. And Qatar is not willing to spend our people well, our people, resources, and their political adventures.

MACCALLUM: All right. Obviously, we have a base in your country that is very important to our country. But your relationship with Iran has also raised some eyebrows, is that something that is negotiable or is that something that you had to cultivate because of this blockade?

AL-THANI: I'm sorry, but this accusation in itself is really ironic, because if they are accusing Qatar that relations, special relation with Iran, why the UAE is controlling 96 percent of the bilateral trade between the UCC and the Iran while Qatar is just having $50 million of bilateral trade. In the meantime, we are sharing with them our love to the gas field which contribute to the word energy more than 20 percent. Our relation with Iran is a relation that we are neighbors, we are situated next to each other, we are managing our gas field, which we are dreaming, which is in a partnership with Iran. We have no special relationship, we have differences with Iran in their policies, we have disagreement with them, and their influence in our region. And we've been the front-running in fighting this influence in Syria. So, why UAE, they are OK with Bashar. The Saudi crown prince, he just mentioned that Bashar can remain and we are seeing the amount of crimes which he's committing against his people. And the support keeps getting from those players.

MACCALLUM: Your Excellency, thank you. It's very good to have you with us tonight in Washington. Thank you for being here.

AL-THANI: You're welcome. Thank you for hosting.

MACCALLUM: So, still to come tonight, a big about face for California Governor Jerry Brown in the fight to secure our southern border. Our conservative Californians maybe getting somewhere with the governor? Plus, James Comey's notebook got me a big deal; it's going to be out soon. And simultaneously, there are leaks to the media showing off his story. Why some of the FBI say they have had enough of all of this. Senator Lindsey Graham joins me next.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-SOUTH CAROLINA: This doesn't add up and I smell a rat here.


MACCALLUM: And developing tonight, leaked notes believed to be from a former top DOJ official suggest that fired FBI Director James Comey's private conversations with President Trump can be corroborated. But the evidence has coincidently come to light just days before James Comey's book is about to be released. If this sounds familiar, it should. Trace Gallagher live in our West Coast Newsroom with the look at the back story here tonight. Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Hi, Martha, even more coincidental, the not suddenly showed up on the anti-Trump network, MSNBC, and were initially revealed but that network's biggest star and biggest Trump critic, Rachel Maddow. The notes from then-Deputy Attorney General Dana Boente, in reference to a March 30th 2017 conversation he had with then FBI Director James Comey, in which Comey relayed his claim of President Trump asked him lay off the Russia investigation. Now, at the time, Jeff Sessions had already recused himself from the Russia probe, acting A.G. Sally Yates had been fired, and Rod Rosenstein had yet to be appointed. So, in matters of Russia, Dana Boente was in charged, and then notes appeared to be the first hard evidence to corroborate Comey's testimony Congress. Watch what Comey said, and then I'll show you what Boente wrote. Watch.


SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN, D—CALIFORNIA: You described two phone calls that you received from President Trump -- one on March 30 and one on April 11th -- where he 'described the Russia investigation as a cloud that was impairing his ability' as president and asked you 'to lift the cloud.' How did you interpret that?

COMEY: I interpreted that as he was frustrated that the Russia investigation was taking up so much time and energy.


TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Boente then writes that Comey told him the president said, quote, what can I do to relieve the cloud, and kept coming back to it making it hard to do business with the country. Of course, last year, days before James Comey senate testimony, the New York Times and Washington Post reported major details about what Comey would say to congress and they were right. But that, also, was no coincidence considering James Comey admitted sharing copies of his notes with his Columbia Law professor friend so the professor could in turn share details with a reporter. And remember when James Comey told Congress that he was uncomfortable when former Attorney General Loretta Lynch told him to refer the Hillary Clinton email probe as a quote, matter, not an investigation? Well, now, Lynch tells NBC that Comey never once raised a concern. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. Joining me now on set, Senator Lindsey Graham, he sits on both the Judiciary and Armed Services committee. Senator, good to see you.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Nice to have you with us. What do you make of that? You know this information that's, sort of, surreptitiously comes to light at significant moment? We know that James Comey had established a pattern of sharing information with the press in order to make his case.

GRAHAM: I think he's trying to sell a book. He's no longer the former director of the FBI to me, so political operative. You've got to remember, he had the law professor leak these notes about the conversation for the express purpose of having the special counsel. That was his hoax.


GRAHAM: So, he's trying to set Trump up to have a special counsel. But, he also told Jim Risch, I never felt intimidated regarding any of these meetings. So, I don't think there's any chance in the obstruction of justice case lies against the president, unless you can show that he, the president, colluded with the Russians. I see no evidence of it. So, when it comes to Comey, he needs to come back to the Congress and ask questions about, while you were director, how did you -- did you not know that the lead investigator of the Clinton email investigation hated Trump and liked Clinton? And they were talking about an insurance policy to make sure that Clinton won. What kind of outfit are you running here?

MACCALLUM: All right. Those are some of the questions that may come up during your book tour.


MACCALLUM: If they do not come on at Capitol Hill at some point. So, we'll be watching that closely. Now, you've been in the process to move a bill that would restrict the president's ability to fire Robert Mueller, the special counsel. How is that going?

GRAHAM: Well, I want to make sure that Trump won't be the last president, and I like to see a special counsel to look at DOJ's handling of the dossier to get a FISA warrant. I like a special counsel to look at Peter Strzok and his girlfriend as to whether or not they broke the law regarding Trump email investigation. But, here's what I'm trying to say to the country, we want to make sure special counsel can do their job without political interference. And all this bill says, if a special counsel is fired for cause, and that's the only reason he can be fired, to reach -- just look at the facts and make sure it fits within the legal definition for cause, then you move forward.

MACCALLUM: What do you think about the fact that Rob Rosenstein signed off on what we're now learning, in terms of Mr. Cohen, the lawyer to President Trump in New York, that they went to his office and one of the things they were looking for was Access Hollywood tape information. I mean, did that - - you know, some of these things you hear what they're doing, I can see how that might somehow fit into the parameters that they have. How would that fit into the parameters that they have in this investigation?

GRAHAM: So, Mueller's charter is to look at collusion coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia. If there is any, I've seen no evidence of it. The reason the New York district of attorney was given this case is -- it's about Cohen, not about Trump. Cohen borrowed money against his own house to pay a legal obligation of another person. That's probably not kosher. If there was anything about Cohen and Russia affecting the president, Mueller would've never given it to the district attorney in New York. So, I'm 100 percent confident that they found something that reflects on Cohen, not Russia and Trump.

MACCALLUM: In terms of Syria.

GRAHAM: So, Mr. President if you're watching.

MACCALLUM: Go ahead.

GRAHAM: I think you're going to be fine unless you screw this up. Let the process play out. I don't believe you concluded with the Russians, but Mueller will soon tell us. The Cohen situation I am convinced has got nothing to do with Russia.

MACCALLUM: You think they're trying to squeeze Michael Cohen in order to - - and, obviously, all kinds of correspondent that would related to President Trump in the time -- even before he was running that would be on that op-ed, and the president seems incensed about it based on what he's writing.

GRAHAM: I understand the president feeling like they're getting out-of- bounds here. But, I want to tell you this, if Mueller was trying to squeeze Cohen, Mueller would have done it. This is something unconnected to Russia, I'm 100 percent convinced of that. And, we'll see what Mueller finds. Let him do his job. But I want a special counsel and the president is right about this. I don't know why in the world the Department of Justice doesn't have somebody outside DOJ to look at how a politically motivated dossier paid for by the Democratic Party, a foreign agent who went to Russia to get information on candidate Trump from the Russian intelligence services, winds up being used as a basis to get a warrant against an American citizen. That screams for a special counsel.

MACCALLUM: Good questions. I do want to get your thoughts on Syria before I let you go, and the president tweets about sending missiles and Russia needs to be ready, were you OK with those?

GRAHAM: I'm OK if he follows through. Here's the defining moment in his presidency. Assad, the animal who killed children with choline gas will pay a big price. When this is all said and done, if he doesn't pay a big price, then the president has made the same mistakes as Obama. If he does pay a big price, what would that be? You can't sleep well at night because Trump is making you a target because you're a war criminal, you know longer have the ability to live with chemical weapons because your air force is destroyed, your intelligence services are broken apart that you can't wage war like you used to. If the president will do that, then that's a big price and that means North Korea will look differently at President Trump, that means the Iranian would look differently, that means the Russians will look differently. President Trump has been a good commander-in-chief. But, Mr. President, you said Assad will pay a big price. To me, a big price means he cannot do this again ever, that he will never sleep well at night, and his ability to wage war and kill children is coming to an end.

MACCALLUM: Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Always good to see you, sir.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up, Mark Zuckerberg doubting some questions about conservatives who were centered on Facebook. We're going to talk to a victim of Cambridge Analytica data breach as well. Plus, California's Democratic governor, Jerry Brown, has responded to President Trump's request now and he said, OK, we will put National Guards on our border, but there's a catch. Our power panel, Chris Stirewalt, Katie Pavlich and Richard Fowler joins me next after the break.


SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: We're also glad to see California Governor Jerry Brown work with the administration and send some members of the National Guard to help secure the southern border.




DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: But we're putting the National Guard and military at the border. We're putting the military and we're putting the National Guard. And we're going to have very strong borders. We have strong borders now, but they're going to be much stronger.


MACCALLUM: To add to that, tonight, California Governor Jerry Brown has now answered the president's call to send the National Guard troops to the southern border. Late today, the Democrat governor agreed to add 400 troops statewide to the border, but insisted that his state will not comply with federal immigration laws. Brown writing in a new letter, quote, let's be crystal clear on the scope of this mission. This will not be a mission to build a new wall. It will not be a mission to round up women and children or detain people escaping violence and seeking a better life. And the California National Guard will not be enforcing federal immigration laws. Here now our power panel, Richard Fowler, a nationally syndicated radio talk show host, Katie Pavlich, news editor at, both are Fox News contributor. And, Chris Stirewalt, who is a resident family member, he is Fox News politics editor.


MACCALLUM: Good to see you, guys. Thanks for being here tonight. So, did he buckle here, Chris, or not?

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS POLITICS EDITOR: You bend, but you don't break in a situation like this. Jerry Brown, of course, has no freedom as a lame duck. But, in California, if he were to come out and say yes, he finds himself in a huge uproar, but if he's says hard no, then he's going to find himself without -- federal government. You're going to see the government moving -- federal government moving his hand. So, he has found some way to politically play this for going, but they're not going to do anything, I promise.

MACCALLUM: What's the -- you know, obviously, California is like a state under siege within itself. I mean, you've got parts of California that are very upset about the sanctuary laws there. Is he trying to, sort of, keep everybody a little bit happy here with this, Katie?

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Maybe. I think that he doesn't want another political fight with the feds at this point. They're already fighting two lawsuits from federal government on, federal land and the sanctuary city issue.

MACCALLUM: Twenty five impending lawsuit or something.

PAVLICH: Yeah, exactly.

MACCALLUM: Federal government, right?

PAVLICH: Right. And so, Jerry Brown is actually saying what the other governors of other states, in Arizona, and New Mexico and Texas have said in a sense that the National Guard is really going to be there as back up. They'll be there as a deterrent. They're going to be doing task that allow border patrol agents to have the authority to enforced laws to get to the front line, while basic tasks like taking care of vehicles back at camp, so to speak, are -- those types of things are taken care of. But, he also says in his statement that the National Guard will be there to combat transnational crime, which I thought was an interesting thing for him to say considering they act like crime is not a part of the illegal immigration issue.

MACCALLUM: I thought of the same thing. Richard, he mentions transnational gangs, he mentions drug traffickers, human trafficking, these are the ideas that, often, when they're brought up get scoffed at. Like, this is so silly, this isn't actually a problem, but now he's acknowledging MS-13, and all of these other, you know, really, horrible conditions that people have been suffering along the border.

RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think drug trafficking is a problem along our southern border. And I think drug trafficking is also a problem along all of our sea borders, and our sea borders are actually bigger than our land borders. And I think that is problem where I think the president doesn't focus enough time on. So, while he talks about building a wall, he doesn't talk about funding the coastguards to the point where the coastguard can deal with the fact there's a lot of drug trafficking happening along.

MACCALLUM: Is that a reason not to deal with the border?

FOWLER: I think both Katie and Chris are right that I think this governor has tried to, sort of, have his cake and eat it too by sending the California National Guard there, I don't want any more fights with President Trump, and at the same time, I also want to make sure that Democrats in my state understand that, you know, I'm not also going to help build this wall, because this wall doesn't solve our problem because a lot of the crusades which got us to -- the troops coming to the southern border, they're not going to cross the border illegally. Many of them will go to a port of entry and says, hi, I'm here to seek asylum, and that doesn't -- that will not -- it's not illegal border crossing.

MACCALLUM: You know it strikes me as, once again, you have President Trump who, sort of, has very strong rhetoric, throws out big idea, I'm going to build a wall, you know, OK, can't get the wall right now, I'm going to put National Guard all over -- everyone freaks out, Chris. And now, what have you got? You've got National Guard supporting the border patrol, pretty much, all along that border. He ends up getting what he wants in so many of these situations.

STIREWALT: Well, Bush and Obama did the same thing. And, when you get the human cry rises up from any large group of people, they say, OK, we've got to do something. Look, as the man said, the end is nigh, look busy. I think in this case, there's also a recognition that we saw last month, a surged in border crossings, big, huge increase. We've had what we call the Trump effect at the beginning, where.

MACCALLUM: Talked you down.

STIREWALT: Talked you down if you were up. And now, we see this surge coming across. Whenever you think about illegal immigration, for these Border States, they're aware -- they're aware of what's going on here, especially in the number of women and children, especially in the number of families, because they're coming in, because congress cannot act.


STIREWALT: Congress is not confident to act on this question and solve the problem, so they're not going to solve the problem so you know what we're going to get? Stopgap band aids again and again and again just as we've had for decades.

PAVLICH: Yeah. And I think that's why you've seen the White House try to at least push out these policies of catch and release. Now, administratively, there's only so much the executive branch can do to end that. And what they mean by that as Congress has to change the law because it has been abused by coyotes who are being paid to bring families and children here, and there's a huge difference between illegal immigrants coming here as individual, or coming here as a family unit with small children. And if you come with a small child, you're released into the United States of America, and then it becomes a very political position as we see in California, because if you send ICE to go get these people when they've been release and didn't show up for their court case, you look like you're not empathetic, you don't understand their struggles. And, you have people like Jerry Brown defending their sanctuary city policy.

FOWLER: I think -- listen, I think we have a larger problem here, prevention is always better than cure. The problem we have is you have -- three violent countries in the world, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras. We got to deal with the violence in those countries, so that these people aren't leaving their country.

PAVLICH: Why our responsibility?

FOWLER: If we don't deal with them, then they're going to cross the border anyway. So, it's cheaper to create peace in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, than having them cross the border or building a $33 billion wall. So, $100 million.

MACCALLUM: So just create peace in those three countries.

FOWLER: Yeah. Listen, we are the world leader -- we've spent billions of dollars creating peace all over the world. Let's create peace in these three countries, less than $33 billion building a wall.

MACCALLUM: Thanks you, guys. Good to see you all.

PAVLICH: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Coming up, Mark Zuckerberg response to conservatives censored on Facebook.


REP. JOE BARTON, R-TEXAS: I, myself, have a question for you, and that question is what is unsafe about two black women supporting President Donald J. Trump?

MARK ZUCKERBERG, FACEBOOK FOUNDER: Well, congressman, nothing is unsafe about that.


MACCALLUM: We'll be right back.


MACCALLUM: Facebook founder, Mark Zuckerberg, heading back to Silicon Valley tonight. He's had two days of pretty tense testimony on the hill behind me. Lawmakers grilled the billionaire over the issues of privacy, security, data ownership, censorship on the social media site. Zuckerberg admitting today his own personal data was collected by Cambridge Analytica as well, something that he has in common with our next guest. Here now, Christopher Deason, a computer business owner who took a survey innocuously enough online back in 2014, and fell victim to a privacy brief. So, Chris, what happened to you?

CHRISTOPHER DEASON, CAMBRIDGE ANALYTICA VICTIM: Well, I took this survey, and part of the survey asked me to install an application, and like I do whenever I install any application, I reviewed the permissions, I didn't see anything that I felt was going to violate my privacy, anything that I felt was underhanded, and so I went ahead, I installed the application. I did the survey and uninstall the application. And, that was the last I've heard of it until the Cambridge Analytica story first broke. And then, you know, Facebook has now made it public that they've send notices to people who are affected.

MACCALLUM: So, you started hearing, oh, this is based on a survey. A lot of people click on these surveys. You can make a few bucks by participating, so that's the trade-off, right?

DEASON: Right.

MACCALLUM: But -- so, then, how did you realize that you had exposed all of your friends to this data breach as well?

DEASON: Well, I guess, I didn't find out that I personally had been affected until this week when Facebook started rolling out the announcements and sending people notices. When the story first broke, I recognized the name of the researcher, Alexander Kogan, and I said I remember doing that survey. I'm probably one of these people. And, it turns out that I was. So, really, I was finding out the same way everybody else was to the press. I received no information or notification that anything of mine had been affected.

MACCALLUM: So, when you watch all this, you know, and you've this personal experience, and now, so many other people also realize that they got sucked into this as well. What do you think when you watch Mark Zuckerberg being questioned under fire by these members of congress?

DEASON: Well, I think, the first thing he did right, at least, was to apologize, mea culpa, and accept, if not liability, responsibility for what he did and for what Facebook did. But, what's going to be telling for me is not his words in the hearings, it's going to be the actions going forward in the next one, three, six months. Will Facebook actually follow through with these promises to implement new regulations? Will they actually start controlling why is these companies can access about us and informing us more plainly and explicitly when third party access our private information.

MACCALLUM: Did you actually read the information, because a lot of people don't when they download an app.

DEASON: Right.

MACCALLUM: But you -- you're in the business and you went through it. So, there was nothing in there that indicated in any way, are you sure, that any of your information was going to be grabbed from the people that are in your friend group?

DEASON: If it was, it was buried so deeply in the fine print that even someone with an educated eye reading carefully would have missed it.

MACCALLUM: And that's wrong, you believe.


MACCALLUM: So, you know, are you going to unplug or are you going to get off Facebook? I know it's part of your business, but.

DEASON: I do use Facebook to run my business, communicate and coordinate with customers, but, beyond that -- not just as the result of this story, but in general, I've tailored back my Facebook usage. I don't share as much on Facebook now as opposed to five or ten years ago.

MACCALLUM: Yeah, you're not alone. Chris, thank you very much for sharing your story. Good to see you tonight.

DEASON: Yes, thanks.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for going to Washington. Quote of the night when we come back.


MACCALLUM: Finally tonight, House Speaker Paul Ryan on the real reason that he is retiring at the end of the year. It is our quote of the night. Watch.


REP. PAUL RYAN, R—WISCONSIN: Some of you know my story, my dad died when I was 16. The age of my daughter is. And I just don't want to be one of those people looking back at my life thinking I spent more time with my kids when I know if I serve another term, they would only know me as a weekend father.


MACCALLUM: That is our story for tonight. We'll see you back here tomorrow night. Tucker is up next.

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