Kushner denies any collusion between Russia, Trump campaign

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This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 24, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Kennedy. It's 9 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Big day on Capitol Hill, and the White House, as President Trump's son-in- law and senior advisor Jared Kushner speaks out after his interview behind closed doors with Senate Intelligence Committee staffers. Mr. Kushner denies any collusion with the Russians and alleged campaign meddling.


JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Let me be very clear. I did not collude with Russia, nor do I know of anyone else in the campaign who did so. I had no improper contacts. I have not relied on Russian funds for my businesses. And I have been fully transparent in providing all requested information. Donald Trump had a better message, and ran a smarter campaign, and that is why he won. Suggesting otherwise ridicules those who voted for him. It is an honor to work with President Trump and his administration as we take on the challenges that he was elected to face.


PERINO: Also tonight, at the national Boy Scout jamboree in West Virginia, President Trump took his drain the swamp message to a whole new level.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You know, I go to Washington and I see all these politicians. And I see the swamp, and it's not a good place. In fact today I said we ought to change it from the word "swamp" to the word "cesspool" or perhaps to the word "sewer," but it's not good.


PERINO: I'm getting the reaction he was hoping for their, interesting though, as the Boy Scout. But let's start with Kushner. Kimberly, I'd imagine that Jared Kushner, he is glad to have that day behind him. He has one more coming up with the House Intelligence Committee, but largely people say, well, if this is the case, and this is what he had to say, why didn't he say it before?


PERINO: Because there's been several months of sort of, drip, drip, drip coming out of it, and today it looks like he acquitted himself well.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And I know that he has been wanting to in fact tell his side of the story, and most importantly his goal and desire was to clear his name. He is maintained from the beginning that he didn't do anything wrong, there was no kind of like, you know, malfeasance or anything of that sort, nothing nefarious, no collusion. What I see as an attorney is that this is was a very carefully drafted statement on its behalf, which is I think was very good because it had several, just very specific, declarative statements aimed to sort of, you know, put this to bed, to rest.

So, I think overall for Jared this was a very good day that his lawyers represented him well. And I was looking for that, to see, you know, in fact what statements they included, how he represented himself, and now we are going to see where this goes from here. But the idea is to put a stop to it.

PERINO: And Jesse, it's true that he is only responsible today for himself, right?


PERINO: So, he doesn't have to answer for anybody else, and there was some talk that he didn't necessarily do his brother-in-law any favors because of the way he set it up is basically saying, "I had no idea, I walked in late and then here is this meeting going on and I was like, I had to get out of here."

WATTERS: Or he also just told the truth and there wasn't anything to throw his brother-in-law under the bus for. That's the other way to look at it. You know, the Democrats never let the facts get in the way of the scandal, they built this thing up like he was going to be this huge deal today and it was a mirage. I think Lester Holt broke in on NBC News, and then midday programming promising a lot of juicy stuff. And they whiffed again. The guy is a Boy Scout.

Look at his face. He couldn't collude if you played tiddlywinks with them. I read the entire statement, all six pages of it, he basically got drafted into this campaign by his father-in-law, it's kind of a family duty. He didn't want him to get involved in politics.

PERINO: Right.

WATTERS: He met two Russians during the campaign, two. He shook hands with the Russian ambassador wants for about 30 seconds, and then he got roped into this dumb meeting and then tried to get his tail out of there as soon as possible because it was so boring. Then during the transition he met with two Moore Russians. He met with the ambassador because the ambassador want to talk about Syria, fine. That was 20 minutes. And then he met with the banker. Fine. About economics. Okay. So, where's the scandal?

PERINO: And he gave them a bag of dirt.


PERINO: And that's the only dirt he got from the Russians, I think it was soil from his family's Belarus homestead. So, I don't see anything there. Belarus.


WATTERS: Juan, now Democrats see it differently. Right? And they focus on a couple things. Like for example in the statement he says, "I never relied on Russian investment for my businesses." And they'll say, oh, that must be a keyword. But on the same day, you had Chuck Schumer and other Democrats get together and reveal a whole bunch of new slogans and their new wave forward, and saying that they actually had to take responsibility for their loss because of their candidate, and not because of Russia. Do you think that that was like the wrong day to do that?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No, no, no, I think Democrats have to operate on their own timetable.

PERINO: And I know you've wrote about this in your column today.

WILLIAMS: I did. I do wrote about on The Hill today. But I mean, the Democrats need to develop their own message because what is quite clear is there is a substantial number of voters, not just Trump voters, really don't plan to vote in 2018 on the basis of opposition to Donald Trump. They want to see something from the Democrats, that says, here is what the Democrats stand for.

So, I don't think that it's necessarily bad messaging. I mean, it could get lost, but how do you compete with what's going on at the White House? I mean, it's impossible for the Democrats -- they're never going to have the kind of blood sport sense that you have. And today, you have here the brother-in-law, looks like he's shoving his brother-in-law, Trump, Jr., under the bus as well as you have a situation where, you know, despite what Johnny Cochran here said --


GUILFOYLE: Jesse Cochran.

WILLIAMS: Jesse Cochran.

WATTERS: If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. Right.

WILLIAMS: But despite that. I mean, there is so many questions left open. I mean, he says, oh, yes, you know, I got together and I don't know what we were talking about, it seems so clear to me, I never read the email chain. Never looked and saw that my brother-in-law was saying, oh, yes, I'd love to get information from Russia, dirt on Hillary. And then he says, you know what, yes, I met with that Russian ambassador, so what if I said, let's go over the Russian embassy and have a secure channel, a back channel communication, oh, no, I didn't mean it like that.

It was just a onetime thing. This was not a good day. He is back on his heels. He is on the defensive. And, you know, it was a carefully tailored message, as Kimberly said, written by his lawyer. But the whole thing looks to me like, you know, everybody pointing fingers, if not taking out knives in the circle, that is the Trump White House --

PERINO: Well, speaking about taking out knives, we have a sound bite from Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. We're going to look at it. Kennedy, your take on this.


REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES, D-N.Y.: Well, the overall majority of Democrats that I worked with understand that there is a cloud of illegitimacy that is hanging over the White House as a result of the possibility that there was improper or illegal collusion between the Trump campaign in Russia.


PERINO: So, Kennedy, this is one of the talking points that they will always use, and to some effectiveness with their base, but it's not necessary penetrating beyond that.

LISA KENNEDY, GUEST CO-HOST: No, it doesn't. And that's reflecting in the polls right now. We're going to talk about this obviously a little bit later in the show. But I think, you know, when you have some Democrats and leadership saying that the Russian narrative, it's ringing hollow for a lot of voters, who you know, not only did they not see enough they are in order to divert their attention from things like national security, immigration, and economic principles. But there's something about it and I'm one of those people, I much more of a skeptic than you, Jesse.

And I know that you believe in this president, and I admire how much you love this country. However, I do feel like there's no collusion, but there is something weird going on and I want to get to the bottom of it. And I thought what Jared Kushner did today was, I thought he did a good job of sort of laying out point by point, as you said, some of the accusations, some of the charges that have been made, and some of them unfounded, and took them down one at a time. And I think that's actually is a good lesson for this administration, because it's a much more logical path --


KENNEDY: -- than just swinging insults and new adjectives at people like Adam Schiff.

PERINO: One thing Kimberly is that, if you think about the Republicans -- think about the Democrats for eight years when they I think really shirked their duty to do oversight of the executive branch.


PERINO: The Republicans are actually doing oversight, and they are having these interviews, they're having these hearings, they are moving forward in a way that I don't think the Democrats would have given the Republicans enough credit for that. Maybe they never will. But it is true that the Republicans haven't tried to shut down any of these investigations.

GUILFOYLE: No, you are absolute right. And it does tells with another point I was going to make, I mean, yes, they've been transparent. They've been cooperative. You see people testifying, but that's not enough to satiate the Democrats and this lust that they have for any kind of thing, you know, Russian centered. So, what I think we see here today is somebody who came forward, like who doesn't have something to hide, that wants to clear his name, which is exactly what I would do if someone was making that kind of allegation saying, conspiring and colluding with the Russians.

What do we have at this point today as we sit here tonight? Absolutely zero evidence of any kind of collusion with the Russians. But we do still have our Democrats and mainstream media very anxious to try to find something. What we do have, it appears, as a special prosecutor who actually is searching, he's in search of some kind of crime, and so far nothing for Russian collusion.

So now he is trying to dealt and look for something to fish, and that's not how it's supposed to work for some kind of financial misdeeds, something that he thinks perhaps that is wrong because that's some of the background of his expertise and the team that he has brought in with him.

WILLIAMS: So, you know, you don't think their email in which, Jr., says, oh, I love it, please, Russia has information. Hillary, please send it. And then you have Kushner seeing that e-mail turned, or he says, not seeing it but ignoring it, and then showing up at the meeting along with the campaign manager. It doesn't --

WATTERS: Juan, you don't know how read the bottom of an email chain, I've sent you so many emails, you just read the subject line and you ignore everything down there. Come on!

KENNEDY: To that point, it is a little bit amateurish, and I also think that's why Don, Jr., doesn't have a job in the White House.

PERINO: That is also an interesting point, Kennedy. We are going to keep going, because we have something exciting coming up.

New questions are being raised about Attorney General Jeff Sessions after President Trump criticizes him in a new tweet. Our changes on the horizon? Ed Henry is going to join us live, next.


GUILFOYLE: President Trump took yet another swipe at Attorney General Jeff Sessions, calling him, quote, "beleaguered" in a tweet this morning during a photo op with interns at the White House today. The President was asked about the Attorney General.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, should Jeff Sessions resign?



GUILFOYLE: Face Emoji. Also today, an ObamaCare showdown is brewing. President Trump is on offense as the Senate is set to hold a procedural vote to take up the health care bill tomorrow.


TRUMP: The question for every senator, Democrat or Republican, is whether they will side with ObamaCare's architects, which have been so distractive to our country, wherewith it's forgotten victims. Any senator who votes against starting debate is telling America that you are fine with the ObamaCare nightmare, which is what it is.


GUILFOYLE: Joining us here on the set, chief national correspondent Ed Henry, and there he is. All right. Welcome to "The Five" or the sixth.

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS: So excited.

GUILFOYLE: As you have it.

HENRY: Like the sixth beetle.

WATTERS: Five and a half.

HENRY: You know what, we should say that. Now you said that. On Friday night on "The Five", I was watching, and you took something I reported through your weekend show. And you said, my people in Washington.


And I just called you out and I will say you're honest in your decision, you know, Henry, I stole that from you.

WATTERS: You know, Henry, you've been a little cocky recently, we don't want to give you a huge head. It was anonymous sources.

GUILFOYLE: So, we will give you all the credit as long as you do a good job. So, a lot of breaking news today, there is a couple of things. Obviously, there's one thing I want to get you, that is just breaking now about Senator John McCain, can you fill us in on that?

HENRY: Yes. We are hearing that Senator John McCain now is confirmed, he's coming back tomorrow to vote in the Senate. This is a key procedural vote. All of this, really, is to get to the actual debate. They don't even know which bill it's going to be. Is it going to be repeal only? Is it going to be repeal and replace? Something in between. Mitch McConnell is obviously between a rock and a hard place right now just to get something moving.

And this is very dramatic obviously for Senator John McCain who just had surgery to deal with brain cancer. They were expecting him to take at least a few weeks off to recuperate. Obviously you think family comes first, his health comes first. And I would assume, we don't know all of this because this is just breaking, but this was done in consultation with his doctor sent his family to make sure that even just traveling to Washington is going to be okay.

GUILFOYLE: I would be surprised if he flies the plane. Like he's really tough, he knows how important this is.

HENRY: Maverick, you know, all the way.

GUILFOYLE: How crazy would be if he flew all the way to Washington to vote no?

HENRY: Kind of stick it to the press. Look, I think the other thing here, is that the President, the argument you played in that sound bite, it's sort of like, what took so long for the White House from a communications standpoint to figure out, I think this is his best argument with all Republicans which is that, if you won't even let us move forward on a procedural vote that nobody else in Washington understands, we don't even know which bill it's going to be, but just actually have a debate.

GUILFOYLE: They could have had him on talk radio all last week with that exact same message and forcing the issue. But it looks like they're going to get it.

HENRY: Yes. You and I spoke on the radio today about, you made a great point which is basically, you know, why wasn't the President on the phone, talk radio, and states like West Virginia where he has, you know, senators on the fence --

GUILFOYLE: Messaging. Right.

HENRY: -- and message that. Because frankly, how can Republican senators justify not voting to have a debate?

GUILFOYLE: It's a little bit, we play on them --

HENRY: You can debate, you can say, look, Susan Collins or whoever, I don't like the Medicaid touch, I don't like --

PERINO: But honestly, Ed, if you phrase it that way, how can the Democrats not vote for it too? I mean, that should be 100-0 in the Senate like at least let's start debate.

KENNEDY: You're absolutely right. Chuck Schumer says this bill is rotten to its core. He says, this bill is so bad and so toxic, so wouldn't you want to cast a little sunlight on this legislation so people can see what you see, and if not then you are an empty, hypocritical coward. I'm going to go for the latter here.

HENRY: Well, Mitch McConnell said last week, I was at the White House when he came out after meeting with the President, other Republican senators. He said, look, Chuck Schumer and everyone else can amend this thing to that basically. I mean, you can have dozens and dozens of amendments.


HENRY: So, I think you are right. They should call the Democrats out as well as the Republicans. Like Chuck Schumer keep saying, we want to fix ObamaCare. We don't like this bill that the Republicans are pushing but we want to make it better. Call him out on that. Because in fact, every time, when I was covering President Obama, they tried to make even the smallest change to ObamaCare, no, no, no. Because he knew it was like, pulling a piece of string in the suit was going to come undone. So, they would have no changes, even reasonable changes. None.

WATTERS: Are they going to get this thing repealed? Because Dana made another bold prediction just now that it was going to happen.

PERINO: No, I think this vote tomorrow is going to happen.

WATTERS: Okay. So, the vote happens, but then it doesn't really get repealed.

PERINO: I don't know.

WATTERS: That was the source. She was the source.

PERINO: Yes. Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: This is Washington. This is Washington.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. So, people in Washington told me. Are you guys still talking about that?

WATTERS: I do. You seem to be a little bitter about it.

WILLIAMS: Let me just jump in here quickly say that I think that the Republicans have not demonstrated that they have any better ideas than ObamaCare so far. In either the House bill or the Senate bill, and now -- all about now is, can Trump claim a victory. They are trying to just cover up. But let me just move on to the news of the night which is that, this business about the President saying that the Attorney General is "beleaguered."


WILLIAMS: And to anybody who was watching, it looks like the President is trying to force out his Attorney General without pulling the plug on it.

HENRY: What was the context? He said that the beleaguered Attorney General should be investigating crooked Hillary, his old phrase and campaign. You know, so like he is dragging that back. And it's very clear what that shows to me, is that this is a president who is frankly angry at his Attorney General for A, recusing himself.

PERINO: I think letting him twist in the wind, this guy, I understand you are mad at him, Mr. President. But he was the first one to go out for you. He really stuck his neck out. He was really good in his confirmation hearing. He's been actually implementing the policies better than any other department across the entire government. And if you really can't stand him that much, then just cut him loose. In the Rocky Mountain news, my gosh, that's a long time ago. That doesn't even exist anymore.

In "The Washington Post" today, there's a story that just posted that Robert Costa reports that, it says, someone close to Trump says that he was asking today, well, how will it play in the conservative media if I fire Sessions? Well, if you actually look at the conservative media, it's like, it's not going to be good. They like him.

WILLIAMS: No. And the twist in the story today was, Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York, former prosecutor, very accomplished in that regard, said, you know what, Sessions was right to recuse himself. Which was a surprise because people were talking about the possibility that Trump would name Giuliani to replace Sessions because he believes --

KENNEDY: But he was also, Giuliani was also an early adopter, I mean, he was also one of the people very early on in the campaign.


KENNEDY: And I think a lot of people particularly Rudy Giuliani were surprised to not seem be part of this administration --

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

KENNEDY: -- in a much higher post but as a civil libertarian.

WILLIAMS: Part of this.

KENNEDY: I would be delighted to see Jeff Sessions --

PERINO: I know. That is true. But there is a lot of -- people asked for --


KENNEDY: Civil forfeiture.

WATTERS: Oh, yes. That's like I read Playboy for the article.

PERINO: -- talking about Ted Cruz.

HENRY: But also, how many times do we heard, Priebus is out. Bannon is out. There's been so many mainstream media stories about that and they're still around. So, we've also have to put this with a grain of salt.

GUILFOYLE: Hold your breath.

PERINO: Don't hold his breath. You want them to hold his breath?

GUILFOYLE: Don't hold your breath because he wanted to hold it for that long?



HENRY: What do your people in Washington say?

GUILFOYLE: I call this like --


GUILFOYLE: I will say this about AG, if you think way back -- you should remember this, Ed, is Rudy Giuliani was one of the first people that actually the President wanted for AG, another person that he favors is Mukasey.


GUILFOYLE: So, but then Jeff Sessions, again, one of the first people to campaign for him, beloved in the south, and has really tried to do a good job for the President. So, it's a complex situation, but I agree with Dana. If you are upset and you don't like someone in the position like that, then you have got to step up and say --

PERINO: Yes. Stop humiliating him and just do it.

WATTERS: But do you think he doesn't want to fire him because he already asked him to get rid of Mueller, and if he fires him then he might --

KENNEDY: I think he is already offered his resignation.

PERINO: If you fire him you have to have a replacement ready to go, and I don't think he has one.

HENRY: Who is widely respected.

GUILFOYLE: I'm very happy with Nixon, with Kelly, with Mattis --

PERINO: He doesn't like Rosenstein, so that's out the window.

GUILFOYLE: Right. There you go. Lots to talk about. Right.

HENRY: I say Watters, he knows a lot of people in Washington.

GUILFOYLE: Ed, I think you could expect. Thank you so much.

All right. Just do it.

All right. The new White House communications director has a bold plan for plugging leaks to the press. We will going to tell you what it is, coming up next. Stay with us.


WATTERS: Just a few days after being named the new White House Communication's Director, Anthony Scaramucci is now in the cleanup shot. At the top of the list, taking quote, "Drastic action to stop leaks to the press while offering this ultimatum to the White House staff."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens to leakers on your watch?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: They're going to get fired. I just want to make it very, very clear. We are only as strong as our weakest leak, so if you guys want to keep leaking, why don't you guys all get together and make a decision as a team that you're going to stop leaking. But if you're going to keep leaking, I am going to fire everybody.


WATTERS: I can't believe it's taken this long for someone to come in here and say, stop the leaks.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And it's bad. Because you didn't see this kind of problem with the Obama administration. I give them a lot of credit, they ran a tight ship. They didn't have people that were, you know, colluding against the administration and leaking. It's very unfair. He go in there, and you know, I take public service very seriously having worked as a prosecutor for so many years in Los Angeles and San Francisco, you go in there and you take an oath. You keep your confidences. You do not leak.

It's entirely improper and unethical. And if you are that kind of person, and unethical, you don't belong in the position. So, I would take the same approach and attitude. I would want to find out and root out anybody who is trying to undermine the presidency and the government and not to do the job properly. They should literally go and get another job. Prepare their resume. And I'm sure they know who they are. Meaning the people that are leaking. And I know the administration has the names and the list, so --

WATTERS: That is right. Where do you think these leaks are coming from? Because I always assume they were coming from the Intelligence Community or maybe the State Department. Do you think it was within the White House?

PERINO: I think that there are different levels of leaks. Okay. So, there are ones about the Intelligence Community that come, seem to come from the Intelligence Community, that's one problem and that also is a crime. Then you have ones that are possibly coming from whatever the deep state is, like in the bows of the State Department so that they are mad about. I think what he is talking about, Anthony Scaramucci is talking about the White House staff itself, and in a particular he said the communication staff. I have to tell you.

And just in my experience, the communicators in the press office rarely leak. For a couple reasons. One, they don't really have that much information. Two, they had to clean up all the mess. And three, they have these relationships with reporters that they have to do on the record so it's very hard to say I'm on the record or not. If you have to name them and you want to fire them, Kimberly is giving me some direction here, so I don't know. I just know that in my experience the press people don't usually leak. The first to complain it is often the leaker. The White House also complains about, "The New York Times" for example, uses sourcing like, advisors to the White House said, that was the one about the Don Jr. meeting. That one means that there are people outside the White House --

WATTERS: Could be anybody.

PERINO: The press, the chief of staff, they are talking that people at the bar and those people are calling the press. You can't fire them. That actually just requires leadership and direction. I don't think somebody that is forcing something down the throat, like management my fears one thing and you can try it that way, but it doesn't achieve confidence.

WATTERS: That is how Kennedy runs her show, by fear, correct?

PERINO: Absolutely.

WATTERS: What you do to leakers on your show?

KENNEDY: We don't have any because they have all been squashed.


KENNEDY: Like cockroaches. They splatter on the sidewalk.

GUILFOYLE: Look at Juan, he is terrified.

KENNEDY: You are interested in your perspective. Because I think one of the things that this vastly different and this is very unorthodox White House is still getting its footing. It's still very early on in his presidency. I don't thing with other parties and past Presidents, I think you would a sense of loyalty to your Party, and there is a disconnect there.

PERINO: I will give you one example, when the health care bill was going down in the Senate, there was something that happened that showed up at the paper saying the White House is going to say a-ok to a campaign to pressure Dean Heller in Nevada and I know this reporter who reported it. And they got a call from other parts of the White House saying do you have more information, where did you get that. One part of the White House wasn't talking to the other. That is actually easily fixed by something like a communications Director or chief of staff figuring out a way to do some better coordination.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say that pick up something that Dana said which is, the first person to complain about the leak most likely is the leaker. In this case Scaramucci has a reputation among reporters as being a great leaker. He was a great leaker.

GUILFOYLE: He just got on the job.

WILLIAMS: During the campaign he was a good leaker. Let me just say this right now there are so many factions inside the White House. We saw this demonstrated today, talking about Don Jr., versus Kushner, then you've got people and I think people on the edge like Reince Priebus, the chief of staff, and then you got Steve Bannon and his policy advisor, all discombobulated by Scaramucci descendants. Everybody is looking out for themselves. Everybody is lawyered up, including the President. The lawyers have information. Their job is to protect the client, not politics. And they are leaking.

WATTERS: That sounds a lot like fake news, because the sources I have in the White House that everyone gets along quite swimmingly.

WILLIAMS: Is that Ed Henry?

WATTERS: Directly ahead, the deadly illegal immigrant smuggling out in Texas re-ignites the debate on Sanctuary Cities. Could this horrible tragedy have been prevented, details up next.


WILLIAMS: Now an update on a disturbing story we've been following here in the Fox News channel. A tenth person's died in a Texas tractor-trailer smuggling tragedy. Officials found the truck packed with at least 90 people in sweltering heat outside of San Antonio Wal-Mart yesterday. The driver of that tractor-trailer faces charges for illegally transporting immigrants. If convicted, James Bradley could face the death penalty or life in prison. Texas lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick is among lawmakers blaming this horror on sanctuary cities.


GOV DAN PATRICK, (R) LIEUTENANT TEXAS: Those who think Sanctuary cities are a great idea, this is what happens. When people think they can come to America illegally, because there is an oasis somewhere that they can live in. That just draws them to fall into the clutches of the people who smuggle people across our border.


WILLIAMS: Goodness gracious. Some of the people involved children, four of the survivors, four to 17 years old, Kennedy what do you make of this?

KENNEDY: It absolutely breaks my heart, because who are people who just want a better life. They know the risks, they know the stories, and they lost their lives, they died trying to get into this country. That is what I think about first, and then I think about the people who prey upon them and take their money, in these incredible, unsafe conditions. For me it's a testament to how great this country is and what a magnet it is and for people trying to leave hellholes, unfortunately this is what they are left with. These are the means. That means the system is broken. Something is wrong. There is certainly a, disconnect between sanctuary cities and the federal government, but there's also a broken immigration policy in this country that we have to figure out so stuff like this stops happening.

WILLIAMS: Dana, to pick up on what Kennedy is saying, people in the truck saying they were expected to pay $5500 each. That is a lot of money.

PERINO: They were guaranteed for that money in air-conditioned ride, but the desire to come to this country and work is so great that they were willing to do this, sort of rocking the truck back and forth to get attention. The driver says he doesn't know it was in the truck, and understand apparently that it's possible if he picked up a field container and that is driving along and doesn't know. It does seem a little suspect, though. If you are driving a truck and you don't know what's in it from Laredo to San Antonio, I think he is probably very vulnerable and he should be. And I hope its one thing to do with Sanctuary cities, but also to go after this coyotes, and ratchet up the penalties for them to try to prevent this behavior. The human conditions and human rights is something that we all don't care about. Does matter from the southern side of the border or here in America, this really ought to stop

WILLIAMS: Just to be clear, that is not the case that the driver, Mr. Bradley, he is from Clearwater Florida cross the border. Apparently these folks were brought across the real plain and loaded onto this truck and he was told to drive this truck.

WATTERS: But he still part of the smuggling operation?


PERINO: He is responsible for that car.

WATTERS: I see what Kennedy is saying, that it's a magnet for immigrants, but sanctuary cities are a magnet for illegal immigrants. You put the wall on the border, I think that is humane. I think some of these policies, border policies, they don't deter this stuff. They encourage smuggling and people die. It's the Democrats are the part of compassion and they want to be the humane Party. They can't at the same time on the other hand encourage these policies were people are actually dying coming across the border. And these smugglers there like modern-day slave traders. The same kind of thing where they pile bodies into a hot truck on top of each other, same thing they did on slave ships. It's disgusting. I think more people need to get involved in the crackdown, because it keeps happening over and over.

WILLIAMS: Kimberly, there is an intriguing debate between Joaquin Castro the Congressman from Texas and John Cornyn, the Senator from Texas. Castro saying we need to have some compassion, not to make this a political argument. And Cornyn think it is compassionate that if we crackdown on sanctuary cities, the border, we can stop this kind of loss of life.

GUILFOYLE: They can both have valid points, but I see it firstly for my perspective in terms of being a prosecutor and seeing what would happen here, people being taken advantage of it is very dangerous conditions for families and for children. These are the stories that I would be privy to and aware of on a daily basis. That is a serious issue, because people are desperate. They want to come over and if there's a means to do it these people will prey on them. They prey on them. Look at the situation here, loss of life. That is all we have to -- it's incumbent upon us and with our, you know allies and friends and partners in Mexico to work on something that is tenable, and has compassion but respects the laws of our country and ensures the safety of people here and the people in Mexico. They should want to make sure to put an end to this, too. Follow the laws, apply, go to the process, and we need to make the process more streamlined so that it's fair to everybody.

KENNEDY: And then people can immigrate legally, and get into the country.

PERINO: Or work temporarily.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely, and have solutions like that in the process.

KENNEDY: So employers can hire them, and it is above board so people aren't sacrificing their lives to participate.

WILLIAMS: In fact just last week the President had to issue additional visas for some of the migrant, you know seasonal workers, the question is what happens with e-verify, enforcement, so folks don't think they can get jobs with fake social security numbers and the like. Up next, Senator Schumer called out his fellow Democrat Hillary Clinton and some stunning new remarks. Find out what he said when we return.


KENNEDY: Good evening. It appears some prominent Democrats are tired of Hillary Clinton's excuses for losing the election. One of them her former senate colleague Chuck Schumer has taken shots at the former Democratic Presidential nominee, telling "the Washington Post" "when you lose to somebody who has 40 percent popularity, you don't blame other things. Call me, Russia, you blame yourself." the Senator minority leader also doubled down on his party's failures earlier today.


CHUCK SCHUMER, SENATE MINORITY LEADER: And when you lose elections as we did in 2014, in 2016, you don't flinch, you don't blink, you look in the mirror and ask "what did we do wrong"? Number one thing we did wrong is not present a strong, bold economic agenda to working Americans so that their hope for the future might return again.


KENNEDY: That would've been helpful information last November, shots across the bow at Hillary.

WATTERS: Yes. Crying Chuck is going to turn in the dead Chuck after that. Tough when you go out on the hill like that, I would be worried if I were him. Democrats said they have a new slogan, "better deal." I think better deal on losing, because they cash on hand, they have $3 million. The Republicans have about $45 million. The reason they lost in the last election, because the voters didn't hear their message. Well, they did hear the message and they didn't like it. I just don't take the Democrats are believable when they say they are fighting for the middle class, because everyone hears about Trump and Russia and global warming, and they say they want to be about fighting for the middle class, because everybody here is about Trump and Russia and Global warming. They had eight years with the White House in the middle class got hammered. What do you have to show for it?

KENNEDY: Do you have to show for it, Juan? The bottom line is the bottom line. They don't have cash in hand, even Hillary and Bernie both came out swinging against the DNC, and now Chuck, is he being a little sexist?

WILLIAMS: How is that?

KENNEDY: By attacking Hillary?

WILLIAMS: I think he had a point. I think you are this from David Axelrod, they said they had a lot of money, they had a tremendous financial advantage over Trump and they certainly had an unpopular opponent and they still lost. I think there's a lot of frustration, but I think to their credit, I think they are finally moving forward. I think finally they are now focused on a message that get traction, and economic message about jobs, about wages, about infrastructure.

GUILFOYLE: Is a disinterest message?

WILLIAMS: It's very centrist in fact and so the question is -- are you alienating the base? Because there is a lot of people who see Bloodsport and going after Trump, responding to Trump tweets. I think now, this is a more centrist approach as you are saying. The question is does it get a response? Obviously Jesse doesn't think it gets the response, because the Republicans always small government, less taxes, it's pretty easy to understand. This message gets immediately mocked by Republicans as sounding like Papa John's, better pizza, better ingredients, so we have a better job plan, but you know what, may be that this is what the Democrats need.

KENNEDY: The Democrats need something. They obviously -- they've run out of ideas and candidates, and no money.

GUILFOYLE: They've got no money. They've got no people. They got no ideas. They produced Donald Trump.

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, the Democrats produced Donald Trump?

GUILFOYLE: Yes they did, eight years of President Obama.

WILLIAMS: A better economy under President Obama, a better stock market.

GUILFOYLE: If it was so dandy, then why didn't Hillary win?

WILLIAMS: Because I don't think -- the income inequality --

KENNEDY: It was never above 21,000 above President Obama.

WATTERS: Where did it start Kennedy? A little short term memory loss

GUILFOYLE: This is why Schumer also is now dishing Hillary, because Trump is even higher in the polls.

PERINO: It's him trying to get rid of Hillary.

WILLIAMS: You guys need a villain.

KENNEDY: Said the last word. How about any word?

PERINO: I would say a couple things. They look at America, the guys that worked for Obama, this is what they called the new slogan "trash, confusing," they said that make America great again felt genuine and this new slogan doesn't have the feeling. Kimberly, one thing I would say, they don't have any money, but they have way too many people. Apparently what's happening is that across the country you have eight Democrats all vying for one primary seat. We saw what happened to the Republicans when they had 17. What's happening is the leaders of the party want to go centrist. Those people that are running want to push left. They are going to drag all those candidates left. And then they're not going to be able to compete and what are much more -

KENNEDY: And you can have it both ways, they will find that out the hard way. One more thing is up next.


PERINO: It's time now for one more thing. I will go first. You want to get excited and inspired about by America's youth today. I am going to show you one reason why, take a look at Caroline Berk. Here she is, she right here in the studio visiting today, she babysit japer for me on Saturday night and then I got this sweetest text from her with the entire list of all the things that Jasper did during the course of the night. From 7:05 Jasper greeted me and was happy to see me and 7:25, Jasper got a treat for being a good boy. He took a nap and drank a lot of water and played with her dog Samson and I just thought this was so creative and responsible and a lot of innovation and sure, she will be hired again, so young people, I knew that Kimberly would love the list.

Kimberly you are next.

GUILFOYLE: All right thank you so much. Anybody likes sharks? As part of opening night for shark's week, I know it is a little disappointing for though Kennedy, we will talk about that. Discovery channel advertises the Olympics swimming lesson that Michael Phelps will be racing against the great white shark to determine which is faster. Phelps is match with a computer generated image of the shark that simulated a real shark. Robots have taken over. Sadly he didn't win and he lost the race by two points. It is a huge disappointment for the humans. Two seconds lower than the simulated shark. Phelps tweeted last Sunday that he wanted a rematch, but in a warmer weather.

KENNEDY: How about with a real shark, too.


KENNEDY: Even Fonzie jumped the real shark.

WILLIAMS: You guys want blood. I don't get it.

PERINO: Juan, you're next.

WILLIAMS: All right we were just talking about the Democrats and their new message. The politics, behind the new party message please take a look at my column in the hill website today. I have other exciting news to share. What a weekend, my son Raffi, who got engaged last fall to the wonderful Morgan. They had an engagement party this weekend and guess what her parents came down from Connecticut and the couple's pals from high school and college came from all over the country to celebrate. And check this out. The most amazing cake made by my daughter Reagan. The whole thing is made out of sugar popcorn included, I was amazed and the cake was delicious. Anyway, good luck to the newlywed couple.

PERINO: All right Jesse.

WATTERS: And so my family. They are all Democrats, my father and my mother is Democrats even my extended family my uncle David Watters is a state senator in New Hampshire and look who we met, Maxine Watters. I am not in the picture. I don't know what is going on so congratulations. I guess maybe she will run for President.

Just to rub it in.

PERINO: And you are not persuasive are you?

WATTERS: I can't win arguments at thanksgiving.

PERINO: Kennedy?

KENNEDY: All right, pet translators is now believe that they are going to develop A.I. software that will allow you to communicate to talk with your dog and not just with the sad eyes they so often give us. That is my dog, right there, I have been over served, and that was in the airport and now quite tired.

WATTERS: Tired of drinking.

PERINO: How does it work?

KENNEDY: It works, it was a study funded by Amazon and they are going to use various algorithms to interpret what pets are saying perhaps convert that in to speech. And you will be able to talk to your dog.

WATTERS: What if Jasper doesn't like you?

GUILFOYLE: And the Democrat likes Jesse's family.

KENNEDY: He probably does.

PERINO: And now that is it for the episode of "The Five." You know what, "Hannity" is up next.

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