Joe Biden says 'details are irrelevant' after telling inaccurate war story
Democratic presidential frontrunner Joe Biden is on the defensive after receiving heavy criticism for failing to accurately tell a story about his encounter with a war hero; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 3, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Geraldo Rivera, Jesse Watters, and Brian Kilmeade. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is “The Five.”
This is a Fox News alert. Millions of Americans are under evacuation orders from Florida to the Carolinas as Hurricane Dorian threatens the east coast. The outer bands of the massive category 2 storm lashing the coast of Florida.
This as we are getting a first look at the devastation Dorian left in the Bahamas. The images are shocking. There are at least five deaths after the slow moving storm pummeled the islands for nearly two days. And in the days ahead, I'm sure we're going to see more of that event and we will bring that to you, of course.
But right now we have live team coverage on the life threatening storm's path and strength. Bill Hemmer is in Atlantic Beach, Florida; Rick Leventhal in Jacksonville. But let's begin with chief meteorologist Rick Reichmuth in the Fox weather center who has the latest. Rick, the National Hurricane Center just issued an update. What's the latest?
RICK REICHMUTH, CHIEF METEOROLOGIST: Yes. So the latest is it -- we're actually watching the forecast kind of behave exactly as we think it will from now on out, so overall things are looking good. I will tell you, take a look at this. We are about one week away from the peak of hurricane season.
We've got five different systems out in the Atlantic that we're watching. The only one at this point that, obviously, we're concerned about is Dorian. And I'll tell you, we've been talking for days that we couldn't tell exactly where the storm was going to stall and take this right-hand turn.
It's amazing where we are with science now that we could have about 100 miles off the shore of Florida a cat 5 storm and not have hurricane warnings in Miami because we knew this storm would take this turn once we got to that kind of a forecast.
But the images coming out of the Bahamas, I think if we can share some more of this, it takes a while to get in there after a storm goes through like this, but they're still getting impacts from the storm. The storm still bringing a lot of rain.
But look at this aerial video coming out, I believe this is from the Abaco Islands, marsh harbor, right around that area, the damage is extensive. You can still see places flooded. The storm surge comes in, doesn't go out right away. They probably got about 30 inches of rain.
And when this came on land right here, this had a 185 mile-an-hour winds. That's the second strongest storm we've ever seen in the Atlantic, and it hit the northwestern Bahamas as that cat 5, and then stayed there for the better part of 24 to 36 hours.
So, these images coming in, obviously, people can't get out and do any of the rescue and recovery very easily. It's hard to get into that space. Very fearful for what we're going to see of more images and what the potential for injury and the death toll in that area, and then how do they recover?
It's hard to imagine. My point to all of this is the Bahamas took the worst of it. Had that turn or that stall happened about 100 miles further, it would have happened somewhere across areas of South Florida, which would have been so damaging here. They had a cat 5 just last year, hitting the panhandle of Florida.
And so, for the most part Florida spared. This is what the future radar kind of a representation of what the models think the radar will look like in time, and by tomorrow morning somewhere around Cape Canaveral, Daytona Beach.
By Thursday morning, right around Charleston, South Carolina, probably getting hurricane force winds. And then at this point, most of our guidance brings us center of it just going pretty much up and down the entire North Carolina coast line which will cause a lot of damage for them.
A much weakened storm, a category 1, category 2 storm, not that category 5, 185 mile-an-hour storm that hit the Bahamas, but this storm, nonetheless, if you're here in this area, you've seen a lot of storms including Florence last year that brought record breaking flooding to North Carolina. You have another storm that you have to deal with here throughout Thursday and Friday. Dana?
PERINO: All right, Rick, thank you so much. We have another Rick to go to. Rick Leventhal is in Neptune Beach, Florida. Rick, what are you seeing there?
RICK LEVENTHAL, CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've just been told by Volusia County officials to expect tropical storm force wind gusts starting sometime tonight, and we could be feeling those tropical storm force gusts over the next 24 hours.
The beach patrol and others have tried to protect the downtown here and the homes and businesses by building up the berms here along the beach. This was a cut where you could walk right out to the ocean, but now they've pushed all this sand up, hoping to protect against the storm surge which has been predicted to be 3 to 5 feet, potentially, sometime over the next day or so.
That's on top of a 2-foot higher than normal tide. You can see the dual red flags flying, that means the water is simply not safe. They've pulled all the lifeguard stands off. But as you head down here into Atlantic Beach and Neptune Beach, all of -- a lot of the businesses have already closed and many of them will be closing soon because there's a curfew that goes into effect in Volusia County for any area east of the river starting at 6 o'clock tonight.
So if we just -- Doug could zoom in over there and show some of the businesses that have already boarded up, Dana, and guys, I mean, the town has shut down for the most part. We do see some people out here, but a lot of folks are -- there's nowhere really for them to go because most of the businesses have now closed.
PERINO: Rick, Katie Pavlich has a question for you.
KATIE PAVLICH, HOST: Hey, Rick, as you've been on the ground there talking to locals, how do they feel being prepared and what are they doing in terms of making sure that they get out if this storm were to hit where they are?
LEVENTHAL: Well, you know, Floridians are used to this drill. They've been through it far too many times. And they keep a close eye on the forecast and the track of the storm. And, obviously, they're very grateful that it is now tracking further to the east away from the coast. They know if this thing was coming right at them, I guarantee you, a lot more people would have gotten out. But a lot of people, I think, stayed put because they knew that the winds and the rain and the surge would not be as bad as first had been feared.
That said, the folks who are staying behind, you know, if the winds top 39 miles-an-hour, they're going to shut down the causeways and the bridges, so the folks who decide to ride it out know that they're going to be stuck here riding it out until the winds die back down again and services can be restored.
PERINO: All right, Rick Leventhal, thank you. Now let's go to Bill Hemmer, he's on the ground in Atlantic Beach, Florida. Bill, OK, you've got to tell us what it's like there. We're getting a full picture right here on THE FIVE.
BILL HEMMER, HOST: Yeah, Dana, good afternoon to you. Nice to see you again and earlier today on the 2 o'clock hour. Winds from the northeast around, they're saying 25 miles-an-hour. It doesn't quite feel that way. But they'll pick up throughout the evening hours. But just to contribute to the excellent reporting of Rick and Rick just there, I think in addition to the lessening of the strengthening of the storm itself, it's a big part of the story.
The other big part of the story is the movement of the storm. We've been waiting for days to try and get Dorian to move out of the Bahamas. Well, today she finally did. We were out here at 7 AM this morning. National Hurricane Center at 8 AM said it was moving at 1 mile-an-hour. By 11 AM, it was moving at 2 miles-an-hour. By 2 o'clock this afternoon they bumped that up to 5 miles-an-hour. Just moments ago we shared the forecast it's at 6 miles-an-hour.
Now, this is an enormous storm moving at 6 miles-an-hour is exceedingly slow. But to think that it was stationary over the Bahamas for 18-plus hours is just mind-blowing to think that anyone could survive that or withstand the power of mother nature just for a day pounding that area. It's -- if you were to think about that storm shifting 100 miles to the west, what would we be experiencing here on the east coast of Florida? It's just really thoughts with the people of the Bahamas trying to recover out there.
But, for the moment, the fact that the storm is moving out, I think, A, it gives the folks in the Bahamas some relief. And, B, it gives the forecasters and the millions of people along the southeastern part of the U.S. an idea about what to expect. Because, frankly, Dana, this has been a guessing game. And it's been a guessing game for about a week.
PERINO: And you've been there all day for us. Bill Hemmer, thank you so much. We'll be in touch with you as the night goes on. We're going to take it around the table a little bit. I think, Geraldo, you've covered several hurricanes. But you also, right before the show started, you were concerned about the Abaco Islands.
GERALDO RIVERA, HOST: I, as a sailor, in -- Elbow Key and the Abaco many times with my boat. I absolutely am horrified by the notion of the -- what the overnight must have been like in these very low lying islands, Dana. They're only 40 feet high.
But I have to say, if this is not a mass casualty event in the Abaco Islands, then I think that Hurricane Dorian will be remembered as a miracle storm, why?
Because it was so powerful, cat 5, coming roaring over the win ward islands had a bead on Hispaniola where Haiti and the Dominican Republic is, and then it was going to hit the Mona passage between the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, then it was going to hit Puerto Rico again, not yet recovered from Hurricane Maria, Hurricane Irma, then it managed to squeeze between St. Thomas and Puerto Rico, hitting nothing.
Going into the Atlantic, then, of course, this -- whatever happened in the Bahamas we'll know tomorrow for sure, but then missing the east coast of the United States. I think that Hurricane Dorian, 2019, for all the hyperbole about the historic nature and the strength of this storm it is a miracle that the casualties are relatively low.
BRIAN KILMEADE, HOST: I will say this. I'm getting a call right now from Hagstrom. They want to hire you to make their new globe. I cannot believe the way you know these islands. We know this, 13,000 homes are wiped out.
The Red Cross tweeted that out. We know 5 people have lost their lives. And we saw some devastating footage. We're also seeing some things of people saying I'm up by my ceiling, me and my grandchildren, please help me out. So, my fingers are crossed but I'm realistic about what will happen because as you know better than anyone it's flat.
There's really nowhere to go. I mean, it's not like you've got to get special glass or a special building. You know, you've got to get something that can take -- go underwater almost
PERINO: All right, we're -- continue to follow this. Stay tune to Fox News for the latest on Hurricane Dorian. But up next, chilling new details emerge about that deadly boat fire in California. A live update when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KILMEADE: All right, Fox News alert and it's not good. Grim new developments on that deadly fire aboard a dive boat off the coast of California yesterday, 34 people are presumed dead and authorities are saying they are calling off the search for any survivors. This comes after flames tore through the vessel early on Monday as passengers on a scuba diving trip slept below deck. Here some of the mayday calls for help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger, can you get back onboard and unlock the boat -- unlock the doors so they can get off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger, you don't have any firefighting gear at all? No fire extinguishers or anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger, is the caption of the Conception?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger, was that all the crew that jumped off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger, is the vessel fully engulfed right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger, there's no escape hatch for any of the people on board?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILMEADE: Unbelievable. William La Jeunesse is in Santa Barbara with the latest where that boat was rented from. William, what are you hearing? We're starting to the put this together. It sounds pretty ugly on the crew's behalf.
WILLIAM LA JEUNESSE, CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brian, the sheriff actually made a distinction today that some of the audio cuts that you heard were actually the individuals who picked up the survivors and not the captain.
Those have been conflated, if you will, over time. But I will tell you what we expected today is somebody to connect the dots. Someone to give us what happened. The ignition source. The cause of this fire. That didn't happen. The sheriff, instead, said he was going to wait until he completed formal interviews with THE FIVE surviving crew.
However, he did say that an explosion did not cause the fire, but once started that fire blocked the escape hatch as well as the main exit to the upper deck -- or rather the leading -- or to the main deck essentially trapping all 34 victims below deck.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In many cases, we'll only be faced with the ability to know that we recovered them, and then we'll rely on us to do everything in our power to find out what happened aboard that vessel in the last moments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LA JEUNESSE: The Conception is a wooden boat. It passed inspection in August, with a fire controlled systems, extinguishers, and smoke detector on board according to the coast guard. But there was also gasoline for the generator, propane for the stove, and oxygen for those scuba tanks all highly flammable. Dive teams did search for victims today but the search for survivors is over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our hope is that we will be able to penetrate the wreckage today, stabilize the vessel, penetrate the wreckage, conduct an investigation, search it, and then recover any remains.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LA JEUNESSE: So the coroner today is collecting DNA from families to help identify the victims using a system that was used in the wildfires because it was so quickly. But, Brian, basically the bottomline on all that is that the sheriff clarified today that no one was locked in at all. There was only a curtain separating the below deck to the uppers, but something happened up here that trapped everyone down below and that, they're still trying to determine. Brian?
KILMEADE: All right, William, thanks so much. We know they were just 20 yards from shore. We know they've all paid $665 for a three day trip to go diving, 39 were on board only 5 have survived. Geraldo, this is another area of your expertise. You know the boat business.
RIVERA: You know, I gave it 24 hours because I didn't want to step on the tragedy. But I have some absolutely profound questions, Brian, that you cannot have more patience for. Have they done toxicology test on the crew? I want to know, were they drunk? Were they stoned? They were awake. There was a party that night. Were they partying that night? Why just the crew above? What started that fire with the engine not running? How did it start? Why were there no escape hatches available to the people down below deck?
I had a 70-footer for 20 years. Each hatch -- each compartment had its own hatch. How could it be one escape route for 30 people sleeping in bunk beds down below deck? This is -- I know the Truth Aquatics. This company has a good recommendation. But I'm telling you, the engine wasn't running -- how that fire start? And only the crew jumped off. Five crew members end up in the water?
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: I mean, it is -- what about the captain goes down with the ship? I'm not saying that you sacrifice yourself, but for God's sake, you try. Did they try?
JESSE WATTERS, HOST: Captain goes down with the ship, it's an old saying. Everybody knows why. If you are on this ship and you're a passenger, you're under the care and custody of this captain. If he paddles away and everybody else is burned alive and then sinks to the bottom of the Pacific, something went horribly wrong here. I know it's an old vessel. It's old wood, so extremely flammable. But how could you not game plan for a situation when everything catches on fire and all of the passengers are inside. Are there no axes, escape hatches --
RIVERA: Fire extinguishers.
WATTERS: Extinguishers. What was on the ship? I know it passed inspection. But, obviously, that is totally corrupt right there. All I know is this, the stakes and surviving family members of these people are going to be in litigation with this insurance company for this diving company for years, and there must be a very generous settlement for these surviving families because that's the only way you're going to get justice. You'll never bring these people back.
KILMEADE: And I'll tell you what, Dana, it's going to be hard doing the forensics because the ship -- it sank in 60-feet of water. They're bringing it up now.
PERINO: They said that some of the bodies were burned beyond recognition, so the -- they're doing the recovery efforts but then we'll have to go to the DNA testing just to identify the bodies. People are afraid of fire for a good reason, like, just through evolution there's good reason for that. I have a lot of the same questions, but I also just have a gut wrenching sadness for the people that went through it and their families. I don't know how they recover.
KILMEADE: Katie, it's only 20 yards from shore. If you could swim at all you're safe.
PAVLICH: Well, and listening to the dispatcher and the sheriff clarified some of the details of the boat allegedly not being locked. When the dispatchers talking to the crew members and saying can you go back to the boat to help people get out? But it's very clear they left them there without any thought about getting them out before jumping off the boat, right?
And the idea that they didn't know where the fire extinguishers are and dispatchers saying you don't have any fire material, any firefighting gear, none of that, indicates maybe there wasn't a proper protocol followed in terms of telling people on board where these things were in the case of a major fire like this. So, there's lot of questions, certainly more investigation warranted. But, as Dana said, horrible, awful, gut-wrenching phone calls.
KILMEADE: Yeah.
PAVLICH: Lots of questions for the crew who bailed while these people were burning alive.
PERINO: Let just hope that God took them very quickly.
KILMEADE: Right.
PAVLICH: Yes.
RIVERA: It doesn't work that way, though.
(CROSSTALK)
KILMEADE: Well, we'll be discussing here on “The Five” for a while because we have a lot of questions. Need some answers. Meanwhile, you're not going to believe this story is back. A shocking turn of events in the death of Kate Steinle as her undocumented killer's conviction is overturned. We'll bring you the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: A shocking development in the Kate Steinle case. A California appeals court throwing out the only conviction against the illegal immigrant who admitted to firing the shot that killed Steinle in 2015. You'll recall the case sparked nationwide outrage about sanctuary cities. Jose Inez Garcia Zarate who's in the U.S. illegally at the time of the shooting had been deported back to Mexico five times. He was acquitted on homicide charges but convicted on a gun charge, which has now been overturned because of instructions that were not given to the jury.
Geraldo, you're an attorney. It looks like, I guess, the judge had not told the jury that, you know, if the difference between grabbing a gun and holding it for a long time and then momentarily grabbing a gun before he allegedly dropped it and then it fired and killed Kate.
RIVERA: Hand me my phone right there. OK.
WATTERS: Well, Geraldo, this picture is ridiculous.
(LAUGHTER)
RIVERA: S0 -- you ruined my day. OK. Was I in possession? The gun just went off. Was I in possession?
WATTERS: Momentary.
RIVERA: Momentary -- it is an affirmative defense to the crime of possession -- illegal possession of a firearm. And just because this man is an illegal immigrant doesn't mean he doesn't get -- he gets the same constitutional and statutory defenses as anyone else does, and they failed to instruct the jury momentary possession was a defense.
WATTERS: Because, Geraldo, here's what he said. And you remember, this gun was stolen from the car of a federal agent, and then wound up next to this illegal immigrant felon who then testifies that he picked it up, and then when he picked it up, he didn't know what it was because it was wrapped in rags, and then it fired a shot, OK? And then what he did, he throws it in the water so it stops firing. That was his defense and he actually got off on that because the prosecution overcharged and they screwed that up.
RIVERA: It was for the jury to decide whether -- sarcastically as you delivered that --
WATTERS: No, it's realistic --
RIVERA: -- it was --
WATTERS: -- and you know it.
RIVERA: -- a believable defense or not. It wasn't for the judge to decide --
WATTERS: I agree.
RIVERA: -- I withhold this defense because it is too stupid.
WATTERS: Pretty unbelievable.
PAVLICH: The bottom line is that he should not have been here in the first place.
RIVERA: That's not the bottom line.
PAVLICH: He had been deported five times. He had a previous felony convictions, seven of them. He had multiple convictions for illegal reentry into the country, which goes to the border security argument. This is not just happening in California with Kate Steinle being a victim and her family.
Just in August, in Maryland, seven rape indictments for illegal immigrants, most of them against minors in the same county being protected by the county which is a no-ICE, against ICE, sanctuary county, sanctuary state, sanctuary city, and American citizens are the ones who are suffering as a result of this.
I guarantee you if an American citizen was in possession the same firearm in California as this guy was that he used to kill Kate Steinle, which he admitted that he pulled the trigger, they would be in prison under a felony for what they did.
RIVERA: What do you base that.
PAVLICH: The standards are different for illegal aliens in America than they are for Americans --
RIVERA: That is outrageously --
PAVLICH: It's true.
RIVERA: -- hyperbole --
PAVLICH: It's true.
RIVERA: It is absolutely --
PAVLICH: It's actually true.
WATTERS: And you know what? He actually still face --
RIVERA: A citizen doing the same thing would have been convicted.
PAVLICH: Yeah, likely.
WATTERS: Let's just move on. He still does face a federal charge for an illegal -- for a felon in possession of a handgun. So he's not like walking around.
KILMEADE: I agree, Geraldo, fundamentally you don't want to target people just because they're illegal immigrants.
(CROSSTALK)
KILMEADE: But the jury was never told he was illegal immigrant and never told about his background. Now, me, I'm not burdened with illegal education, but I fundamentally -- if I'm a jurist and I have somebody's future in my hand, I want to know what kind of person that he is because I have to assess whether they're lying or not.
So, he was supposed to be deported, seven time felons with five times he was deported and came back. Look at the character. Do I believe logic to a degree to see this criminal?
WATTERS: And he's a heroin junkie, because he's got wraps for that too. Dana, and the family tried to sue because it's a sanctuary city and the sheriff had him in his custody, never alerted ICE and then he goes out and he murders, and they've blocked that lawsuit and they can't sue on those grounds either. PERINO: Well, I think like all of those things could possibly be true, but they're not actually specific to this case and this charge. And you mentioned that the prosecution was the one that basically screwed it up from the beginning--
WATTERS: They booted it. Yes.
PERINO: Ad there has not been enough focus at this table about that. I mean the frustration is on the fact that the government did not do a good job in order to make sure that all the things were handled appropriately. All those other things to be true, border security, should he have been here, all of that. But for this particular thing, I remember when the verdict first came down and--
WATTERS: We couldn't believe it.
PERINO: And there were questions then about that's going to get overturned, because they didn't do, they didn't do the right thing and I think that the frustration should be also placed there.
WATTERS: Yes. Failures on almost every single level. Will and Grace star Debra Messing under fire for targeting Trump supporters, even facing backlash from other celebrities. Where do you hear this, next?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RIVERA: The co-stars of Will and Grace taking on Trump supporters, Debra Messing and Eric McCormack. The latest to face fierce backlash after calling for the names of those in Hollywood who will be attending an upcoming Trump fundraiser to be outed.
Just the latest example from some on the Left trying to intimidate the President's backers. But the two actors being criticized even by their fellow celebrities. The View co-host Whoopi Goldberg had some strong words, here's Whoopi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ACTOR: Your idea of who you don't want to work with is your personal business. Do not encourage people to print out lists because the next list that comes out, your name will be on and then people will be coming after to you. In this country, people can vote for who they want to. That is one of the great rights of this country. You don't have to like it. But we don't go after people because we don't like who they vote for. We don't go after them that way. We can talk about issues and stuff, but we don't printout lists.
RIVERA: Bravo Whoopi. So, I've loved there for decades. Katie, this reminds me of the Castro brothers.
PAVLICH: Right.
RIVERA: Joaquin, the Congressman, brother of Julian, the presidential candidate outing all of the Trump supporters in San Antonio. Was this the new tactic?
PAVLICH: Well, they weren't just Trump supporters. The ironic thing about them outing Trump supporters in El Paso is that a lot of the people on the list were actually Castro supporters as well who had given donations to them.
RIVERA: The whole thing blew up.
PAVLICH: So, they donated to Republicans and Democrats based on their right to do so and yet it backfired. So, when Debra Messing calls for the list of Trump supporters to be released, she's not doing it for the good of the country for some good cause, she's doing it so that these people in Hollywood can't work again.
There is an underground movement in Hollywood, it's been there for 30 years about conservatives who work in Hollywood, who stay quiet, do their jobs. They can't come out publicly and talk about politics even though you see it in award shows and the Left is allowed to talk about it whenever they want and shove it down your throat.
But when it comes to having a different point of view, Hollywood actresses like Debra Messing and people who have a lot more credibility and power than she does in Hollywood think that you should believe in Leftism, that you have a monolithic thought process and if you don't, we're going to harass, we're going to print your phone number and your address, your family will be harassed and you will never work a day again. That's why she's doing it and it's disgraceful.
So, Whoopi Goldberg stood up for them, good on her, but releasing lists of names usually goes one way, it's the Left calling for it to be released on the right. And you never know these people may support both parties. And yet you still want to oust them as Trump supporters and punish them for their thoughts, the thought police essentially.
RIVERA: You know it reminds me of this is the exact opposite of the McCarthy era.
WATTERS: Yes.
RIVERA: In those days there was the Right-wing was persecuting the Left- wing. Now, it's the other way around.
WATTERS: Yes.
RIVERA: It still stinks.
WATTERS: How historically ignorant you have to be a Hollywood actress and call for someone to be blacklisted.
RIVERA: Really?
WATTERS: I mean did she not know the history of her own country or industry.
PERINO: No.
WATTERS: The other thing is, she put out a tweet and says, we need to come together. Let's talk, let's really talk. And she put out a phone number, so I'm going to call the phone number and I'm just going to try to talk to her and see what she says. Call the number right now.
RIVERA: Yes, let's do it.
WATTERS: Let's call her right now.
RIVERA: Put her on speaker.
WATTERS: I'll put her on speaker phone.
KILMEADE: And ask if she's out there in the hurricane.
PAVLICH: In the meantime--
WATTERS: We're going to call her right now and hear what she has to say, because you can't say you want to bring people together and then you want to blacklist people because that just hurts their families. That hurts the entire industry because you're going to deprive Hollywood and all the audiences of--
DEBRA MESSSING: Hi, there. It's Debra. That's right, it's me. I'm not going to be listening to this, because I'm only going to be reading your text. So, please text me.
PERINO: It says--
WATTERS: That's not talking. That's a scam, Debra. And I feel like she's already been blacklisted. I haven't seen her in years.
KILMEADE: Well, here's the thing. The thing is, she's definitely talented and Will and Grace were a good show. I don't think the remake is having the same success, but we were just going over some rough list of celebrities that would be going to the Donald Trump event. Obviously, people with money who wouldn't go to Beverly Hills, but Kelsey Grammer, right.
WATTERS: Yes.
KILMEADE: Clint Eastwood, Dean Cain, Jon Voight and--
RIVERA: That's about it.
KILMEADE: And the creator of The Apprentice.
WATTERS: Yes.
PERINO: Mark Burnett.
KILMEADE: Yes, Mark Burnett, he'll be going. So, bottom line is, this is the one thing rather I'll take a page from your book. I think Donald Trump in this campaign should be going to areas that disagree with him and having this debate the way John McCain did it.
RIVERA: I agree.
KILMEADE: And this is the beginning. This is saying don't bother, it's not worth it. And I want him to go to Beverly Hills. I want him to go to Chicago. I want to go to those places not just places that love him and make challenge people to challenge him.
PAVLICH: Well, he always jokes about if he had a campaign in California, right, with the electoral college, he would have.
KILMEADE: Upstate New York.
RIVERA: I hear it that Republicans - if you're a Republican, you are a racist, Dana. I mean I hear that that's how far it has gotten in this era in which we—
PERINO: And that's why it's refreshing to have somebody like Whoopi Goldberg who consistently points that out as being faulty. And she speaks from - well, she's passionate about - from what she speaks, but she also speaks from a position of somebody who has been targeted in the past by others. So, I think that she's a good counter.
But the thing about somebody like Debra Messing is that they learn nothing. Every time they do something like this, it is like when Pac Man goes around and eats like one of the little fruits, it strengthens President Trump. It gives him - so if they would just be quiet--
RIVERA: But Pac Man was--
PAVLICH: Hollywood too.
KILMEADE: And now we don't play Pac Man anymore. And I'm going to talk about that later in the break. But I will just - one thing--
RIVERA: It's definitely quality for the break.
KILMEADE: Right. One thing, I would love to bring up, Stephen Ross too paying the price, he owns Hudson Yard, he's that rich guy who owns the Dolphins. They're going to move their fashion show out because he had the audacity to just have a fund raiser in the Hamptons, which some people I know went to.
RIVERA: I can't imagine who he's speaking about.
KILMEADE: Right. So, I just think people just got to stop the boycotts, the protest and the lists. Can we just have an election.
RIVERA: Up next, Joe Biden playing defense says mounting gaffes haunt his bid for the White House. Is he too old?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAVLICH: Well 2020 Democratic front runner Joe Biden has been under fire for a string of gaffes made on the campaign trail, most recently receiving heavy criticism after failing to accurately tell a story about his encounter with a war hero. Now, the former veep's on the defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The details are irrelevant in terms of decision making. And so the fact that I would forget that it was Rodriguez who was pinning, I believe this is the case, pinning a bronze star on a young man was - it's irrelevant to the point, it's like saying I had this very bright reporter and I think her eyes were blue. What difference would it make about whether you were a bright reporter. Your eyes are brown. It's irrelevant and you know it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLICH: Dana.
PERINO: Well, I do.
PAVLICH: Winning or losing. And don't details matter if you're running for President.
PERINO: So, it's a long time. If you're Joe Biden that's a longtime to be the front runner to be hanging out there as a front runner for 18 months. That seems a little bit hard. Nobody can lay a glove on him so far really in the polls. He's consistently been able to stay up there--
RIVERA: Because he keeps laying gloves on himself.
PERINO: Yes. No, Bernie Sanders actually literally did that last week, I don't know--
PAVLICH: That's true.
PERINO: I thought the more devastating thing is not the gaffes. I think that Democratic voters who like Joe Biden, they don't care. They think this is ridiculous. They're not worried about it. And what Biden did a little bit is, he walked right up to the line of calling it fake news and pushing back on the media coverage. I'm sure he's frustrated with the media.
I thought the bigger problem for the Biden campaign was the big piece in The New York Times yesterday by - Sunday by Mark Leibovich and asking him what is your rationale to be president. And really, it's not sharp. It's not there. It's basically like well somebody has got to beat Trump and I think that African-American voters who love him are going to stick with him. That is going to be something that is going to be solid. That's not going to end.
And you can imagine that the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren supporters are like, what are we going to do. Elizabeth Warren is polling at 1 percent with African-American voters, so there is a big reckoning to come. I don't think it will come for a few months. But the fact that he can't actually nail down his answer for why he wants to be President except for somebody has to beat Trump that doesn't feel like it's good enough to me--
RIVERA: I'll build on what you said Dana.
PERINO: Thanks.
KILMEADE: He went on to say that Romney, if Romney was running if Biden was - or Jeb was President, he might have run. So, then he said, I'm the one elect, I'm doing it for the party right. Barack Obama said, Joe, you don't have to do this. And then today he comes out and says I think eight or 10 of the other Democrats that can beat Trump. So, he just did his own argument and where I think is most damning is two things.
He was in-charge of paying out the stimulus package and he was in-charge of the pullout of Iraq. And if you read Mattis' book today, he talks about interacting with Biden tried to explain the problems if you pull out the way you want to and allow Al Maliki to steal that election and he just basically gave lip service and did it anyway. And we know we've got ISIS in return. Those are - that's what a President Biden would do.
WATTERS: I'd like to build on that as well.
KILMEADE: That's all I can ask, Jesse.
WATTERS: Yes, he gets the details wrong and he gets the decisions wrong, because Robert Gates, who is Defense Secretary Republican and Democrat administrations says Joe Biden has been wrong on every single foreign policy decision in the last 40 years. If you think about it, he was against Reagan's push against the Soviets during the Cold War. He was against Desert Storm. He was against the surge. He was against the bin Laden raid. He was for regime change in Libya and I mean for NAFTA, I mean you could add all these things up.
So, when you combine the gaffes, the poor decisions, the age and the sleepiness on the trail, it is a very nasty mix of negatives that is going to drag him down. And the only reason he's up right now is because Warren and Sanders are splitting the Left-wing vote and he's got great name ID. But other than that, I think he is the weakest front runner I've ever seen any might lose Iowa and New Hampshire. And that leaves them with the--
KILMEADE: South Carolina.
WATTERS: Yes. That leaves him with whose strategy was that, Rudy's. We all remember how that went out.
PAVLICH: And his was Florida.
RIVERA: I think you're being kind in terms of the biology of it. He's only nine months older than I am. But--
PAVLICH: Wait, Joe Biden.
RIVERA: Joe Biden.
PAVLICH: OK.
RIVERA: But there are - thank you.
PAVLICH: Just to clarify.
WATTERS: You look great, by the way.
PAVLICH: Yes.
KILMEADE: You do. I agree.
PAVLICH: I couldn't tell.
RIVERA: It's the hair. When he misses the beat, it really seems organic to me, it doesn't seem like he's going to get sharper going forward. He doesn't seem to me that this is just the warming up that he is going to get in there and he's going to be more articulate, more confident in his presentation, more eloquent, more presidential in a sense. He seems tentative to me as if that and the people that are around him like they hope he doesn't break.
WATTERS: And not rust.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Trump wants to make sure he doesn't break, because I think Trump wants him to be his opponent.
PAVLICH: Yes. You know Brian, the argument with Joe Biden as being the front runner is that he's strong. He's one who has this in the bag, but when it comes down to going against the Trump campaign juggernaut. And Joe Biden clearly not really wanting it considering he's saying that he's you know maybe wouldn't be in it if it wasn't President Trump, his wife having a hard time selling his plan saying you know his plan might not be the best one. He might not be the best candidate, but you should elect him to beat Donald Trump.
Is he really going to be able to keep up when it comes to him taking campaign stops off of his schedule right now when he's not even really in a hard battle for the front right now?
KILMEADE: Waiting to next week's debate. I mean that's the third. Every time he goes into a debate, an unscripted situation, it is a carnival of full pause. So, we can't wait—
PERINO: We'll also see--
KILMEADE: To see what happens.
PERINO: If one or the other opponents go after him like does Elizabeth Warren attack him, and it's not going to be--
KILMEADE: You have to.
PERINO: Because he's a gaffe machine. It will be because of something like his coziness with the credit card industry.
PAVLICH: And China too.
RIVERA: But if he loses New Hampshire and Iowa, what happens?
PAVLICH: Well, that's the question, is he going to lose that moment about the front. But the benefit for him--
PERINO: But he could win in South Carolina.
PAVLICH: Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris aren't doing well in the early states either.
PERINO: And Bernie Sanders will lose both as well.
PAVLICH: Right. So, he's still in a good position. Anyway, One More Thing is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Time now for One More Thing. Jesse, good to have you back.
WATTERS: You may have noticed I was gone last week.
PERINO: Good line.
WATTERS: Some very exciting news. Emma and I are engaged. Yes, that is right.
PERINO: Congratulations.
WATTERS: She said yes. Look at that. I actually popped open the ring box upside down. That was my gaffe. But other than that flawless execution, she was surprised. Very happy. I did it in Long Beach Island down on the Jersey shore. There we are, the beautiful happy couple. And we've got some great pictures from Leanna Theresa (ph) photography. And you really can't take had pictures of us. I'm just saying she did an excellent job.
KILMEADE: Well, let me just say you like the picture that comes with the frame.
WATTERS: Thank you.
KILMEADE: How good it is. I mean that's fantastic.
WATTERS: Thank you very much.
PERINO: Congratulations.
WATTERS: I'll invite you to the wedding.
KILMEADE: I hope so. I know I was on the edge.
WATTERS: All right.
RIVERA: She's gorgeous. You're kind of a generic handsome.
WATTERS: Thank you, Geraldo.
KILMEADE: And not be invited.
PERINO: All right. I have one that I know that you're going to like this one because you talked about it on Twitter. The Jonas Brothers launched a whirlwind reunion tour, all sorts of young ladies here went to this concert last week at Madison Square Garden.
16 year old Lily Jordan. She's a fan of the band, she's battling cancer. She had tickets to see Saturday's concert in Hershey, Pennsylvania, but she couldn't make it because of a round of chemotherapy. In a long shot effort, the lead put out a call into the universe with a post on her Instagram tagging the Jonas Brothers and inviting them to visit her hospital room right by the concert hall. And guess what. It happened. It went all around the Internet.
But the Jonas Brothers actually go into the hospital room, so she thought it was pretty cool. Exact quote was crappy chemo session into something incredibly special and unforgettable.
KILMEADE: I mean how great is that, Brady Bunch. Showing up for the Brady Bunch only that really happened real life. Do I need to be called on to it?
PERINO: You're next. Yes. You do.
KILMEADE: Do I just go. OK. All right, my turn. All right. So, there was a time in which celebrities and athletes was something I look forward to meeting now, it's great generals and military men and one of whom I've got a chance to meet today is General Mattis, we'll interview him on radio tomorrow. But in his book, we got away from the Trump a little bit and we talked about his nickname and the name of this book Call Sign Chaos. Where'd it come from. Here's what he said about his name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM MATTIS, ARMY GENERAL: I was always full of great suggestions for my troops and on one occasion when I was a colonel, I would sit down share my operations officer with, yet another outstanding suggestion and I saw chaos written on his whiteboard. And when I probed him at some length find out what it meant. He said well tongue in cheek that's the colonel has another outstanding suggestion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILMEADE: So, some of us who had some outlandish suggestions. He's very humble and he did say his nickname is not mad dog. It's never been mad dog. He never liked it. Tomorrow, we'll talk to him on radio and if people want to find out how he feels about the President, you're not going have any success. You want to feel about some of the decisions that happened in the past with other leaders, you're going to love the book.
PERINO: And he's on Martha MacCallum show as well tonight, you can see that at 7 PM. Katie.
PAVLICH: Trump gave him the nickname Mad Dog.
PERINO: You're next, Katie.
PAVLICH: All right. So, over the weekend I was in Tucson, Arizona for my great uncle Fred Robie's 90th birthday. And in his honor, we went to go visit his late wife, my great aunt Mary Robie at the University of Arizona. She was the first female associate athletic director at the University of Arizona and they named the gymnastics training center after her. So, these pictures are from that.
So, we went down, it was very hot. We had a great time. So, bear down and go cats and she was pivotal in moving the intramural club sports of female athletics that--
PERINO: Into actual sports. Nice.
PAVLICH: D1 university program.
(CROSSTALK)
PAVLICH: Two grads right here.
PERINO: You're an alum?
RIVERA: Yes.
PERINO: And you're next too.
RIVERA: And I'm next. The Fox family lived through the trauma of the Rivera family in November 2015, remember when my daughter Simone was in Paris. She was at Stade de France, the Germany, France soccer game. Terrorists blew up outside, three bombs outside. She survived. Anyway, she's going to Yale Law School. Big party over the weekend in Marion Massachusetts I love her. She's going to be a judge and prosecutor.
PERINO: We love her too. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of “The Five.” "Special Report" is up next.
Hey, Bret.
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