James Patterson talks Jeffrey Epstein case, new book

This is a rush transcript from "Watters World," November 30, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, HOST: Welcome to "Watters' World." I'm Jesse Waters.

We should be used to it by now. The Democrats, pollsters, the media, they've been wrong about President Trump every day for the last three years. Remember in 2016, they said the billionaire from New York didn't stand a chance at just getting the nomination.

FEMALE SPEAKER: He's not going to be the nominee.

MALE SPEAKER: Let's hope that. I don't know, I mean --

FEMALE SPEAKER: He's not. As much as we would like it, he's not going to be the nominee because he's just made himself unelectable in a general election.

MALE SPEAKER: He is not going to be the nominee.

WATTERS: But one debate at a time, he took down each of his Republican rivals until he was the last man on stage. Then came the general and they said Crooked Hillary was going to smoke him.

MALE SPEAKER: I also don't think you can win the presidency, frankly, by alienating or beginning to alienate key constituencies.

MALE SPEAKER: That's a guy who knows he's going to lose. That's a guy who knows -- you start talking that way and, again, I don't know that he's ever wanted to win.

WATTERS: But again, he proved them wrong. He outran her, outdebated her, and outsmarted her and he bust through the blue wall. So once elected, the media predicted anarchy, economy crashing, remember?

MALE SPEAKER: There always seems to be that niggling, lingering risk in people's minds that the U.S. Is at the end, the mature end of the current cycle, and that a recession could strike at some point either in 2018 or in 2019.

WATTERS: And then they said we'd be at war with the North Koreans.

MALE SPEAKER: The current language of the administration, the lack of a diplomatic and serious engagement strategy, in my view, has us sliding toward war by next summer.

WATTERS: But the stock market has hit all-time highs. Job numbers up, unemployment down and America not really engaged in major shooting wars. At every turn, as critics have tried to take Trump down -- remember the Mueller investigation?

MALE SPEAKER: Evidence is mounting for the president's meddling in the Russia probe.

FEMALE SPEAKER: This cloud about collusion with Russia will hang over him no matter where he stands.

MALE SPEAKER: They were eager to collude with Russia.

MALE SPEAKER: The president of the United States and those around him during an election campaign colluded with a hostile foreign power.

MALE SPEAKER: Does look like collusion.

WATTERS: No collusion. They were all wrong and no obstruction. And now they're at it again with impeachment.

MALE SPEAKER: This testimony is incredibly damaging.

MALE SPEAKER: I can't emphasize how explosive this is.

MALE SPEAKER: Very explosive.

MALE SPEAKER: So explosive.

FEMALE SPEAKER: Completely devastating.

FEMALE SPEAKER: I think Gordon Sondland's testimony today changed everything.

WATTERS: No, it didn't. And these are the same people that predict we're all going to die in 12 years.

FEMALE SPEAKER: The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change, like this is the war. This is our World War II.

WATTERS: No wonder nobody takes them seriously. Nothing. Nothing the left has said has come true. Why would we believe them now? Here with reaction, Fox and Friends co-host Brian Kilmeade, author of the new book "Sam Houston and the Alamo Avenger" and syndicated columnist and Fox News contributor Deroy Murdock. So over the last three years, Brian, none of this stuff has panned out. And that's why these polls don't move on impeachment -- is the people just don't trust what they're hearing anymore.

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS: And the thing is, Jesse, they don't follow like we follow it. We follow it every day. You know, you doing The Five, you're doing this show. We're all over it. You take one hour off, we're onto it. But if you travel the country and have a chance to do that, with the book tour in particular, I go to Oklahoma, go to Nebraska, go to Texas. They're not following it. And so they don't get upset. They're not changing their mind. In fact, when they view it, it has made the Trump supporters more determined. It made the ambivalent Trump supporters more determined because they see an unfairness to it.

WATTERS: Do you think that that's true with the rest of the country in Trump land? Trump being besieged 24/7 by all this stuff. Do you think that hardens their allegiance towards the president?

KILMEADE: I think it does. I think the last survey I saw is something like 90 to 95 percent of Republicans are supporting Trump and behind him after the impeachment thing, they see him being victimized over nothing, over a call that might be a little bit unusual, but nothing illegal or impeachable. And in the view of an increasing number of people, we've seen since the impeachment hearing started, support for impeachment has fallen, opposition has gone up. And even among particularly Independents, it's collapsed something like 13 to 15 points.

WATTERS: And it's amazing.

KILMEADE: So, this has absolutely boomeranged in their faces.

WATTERS: So, you know, CNN's been pushing this impeachment thing very hard. And once it didn't move the needle, you know who they blamed? They blamed Trump supporters. Listen to this cult language.

MALE SPEAKER: The word "cult" has been popping up more and more. Think back to two weeks ago on this program, Anthony Scaramucci talked about his claim that Trump supporters are in a cult. Just last week, Dan Rather said he thinks support for Trump seems increasingly cultish. And this weekend in The Washington Post, Trump critic and Republican strategist John Weaver said the GOP is not a party anymore in the traditional sense. It's a cult.

WATTERS: So CNN says you've got to impeach the president. The public says not really. And they said, you know what, you're a cult.

KILMEADE: What has happened is -- it doesn't astound me when you have Don Trump Jr. come out for his dad. It doesn't astound me when Mark Meadows comes out for his dad. What astounds me, and it's obviously not a cold, is when you have guys like Ron Johnson -- he made his money in plastics, from Wisconsin. And yet he's going to bat for this Ukraine thing. When you have Senator Thune, you know, from South Dakota, he goes, you know, I never really knew him, but now I get a chance to knew him because you treat him so unfairly it makes people double down. And I think what happens is people throw up their hands and they either say I was wrong or something unbelievable is taking place. They're mystified.

WATTERS: Right. And CNN can't believe that they weren't able to convince any Republicans in the House or the Senate that Trump should be impeached. So they just smear them instead.

DEROY MURDOCK, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: They smear those Republicans and, frankly, 63 million people who voted for Trump. That's a pretty big cult, don't you think?

WATTERS: That's a big cult.

MURDOCK: Half the electorate, approximately.


MURDOCK: And look, I watched the hearings carefully. I think you guys did. Many people did. And we're waiting for a crime. Show me the evidence of the crime. You know, if I saw evidence of a crime, I might say, well, this is a problem. But you just heard conjecture. You heard speculation, you heard presumption. And ultimately you got Ambassador Sondland, I think probably the strongest witness the Democrats could put up, ultimately saying under cross-examination, I never heard the president link aid and investigations. I assume that I presume that I didn't hear it. So, again, where's the evidence of any wrongdoing, any criminality? In the absence of that, people are going to say, look, I don't see any reason he ought to be impeached. If that's the definition of a cult, I guess that's a cult.

WATTERS: It is funny that when the Democrats support Barack Obama, it's party discipline.

MALE SPEAKER: That's right.

WATTERS: When the Republicans support Donald Trump, it's a cult. And I remember, I mean, the Democratic Party really circled the wagons around Barack Obama to the point where Barack Obama could say and he honestly believed this, that I did not have any scandals in eight years.

KILMEADE: But if you think about it, Barack Obama was great. The president was great at getting himself elected. But what happened around him? Little by little, he lost, he's -- down 60 votes in the Senate. Then he lost the Senate. Then he lost the House. Then he wins reelection by smearing Mitt Romney, not by running on his record. Got great personal presence. You know that. He's got great charisma. Nobody doubts that, talented, wonderful story. But he never talked about that. Then he loses both chambers and he loses the White House. And people say, well, he left a hero. Not really. He left carnage.


WATTERS: Yeah, he did not leave the Democratic Party in very good standing. I think it was the weakest position electorally they've been in since like the 1920s.

MURDOCK: I think they lost something like a thousand or 1,100 seats -- congressional seats and state house seats, local seats, etc. So so the Democrat Party is much weaker when Obama went out the front door. And one thing with the media, I think they do themselves a lot of good and they maybe build up their credibility a little bit. If they weren't 100 percent negative or, according to Harvard, I think it's like 96 percent negative.


MURDOCK: For example, Dow at 28,000. Quite a milestone. Zero coverage on ABC, CBS, and NBC evening news. Now you can say -- you can bring in people who are not the market and say, look, a lot of people are benefiting, some people are not investors. That's a fair story. They just ignore things. So when it's all negative, negative, negative, it's the boys and the girls crying wolf five nights a week, seven nights a week..

WATTERS: They ignore the good and they hype the bad. Brian has got the new book, The Alamo Avengers.

KILMEADE: What I want to do is bring Texas into the mainstream. You know, we grew up in the Northeast. Where'd you grow up?

MURDOCK: Los Angeles, California.

KILMEADE: So, we thought that was their story. It's really our story, and I thought 60 years after the Revolution, if I tell you there's an unfathomable victory, and a group of guys got together to fight for freedom and liberty, and I told you that they were all Americans, and they won back Texas -- eventually, nine years later, they become part of America, without which we wouldn't have had the South or the West -- and then when you see that valor, I thought it'd be worth putting in a book, worth maybe even making the set of Watters World.

WATTERS: Yes [laughs], I think this is the peak of your career now, right?

KILMEADE: Right. I wouldn't doubt it. I'm hoping to maybe get on Judge Pirro –


-- but if that doesn't happen, this will be the peak.

WATTERS: She's coming up next, all right? You could go [unintelligible] --

KILMEADE: Should I stick around and just hope they call my name?

WATTERS: Stick around.

MURDOCK: This would be a good Christmas and Hanukkah gift.

KILMEADE: I would do it, and, Deroy, if you were asking for a discount, five percent off for you, or at least four percent [unintelligible].

WATTERS: Oh, what a capitalist.

KILMEADE: If you like American stories.

WATTERS: Brian, Deroy, thank you guys.

MURDOCK: Thank you, Jesse.

WATTERS: Next, bestselling author James Patterson is here. He was Jeffrey Epstein's neighbor in Palm Beach. He had three private eyes look all over this guy, and he's going to share what he found with us. And later, nothing says holiday tradition like a Watters World Thanksgiving quiz.

WATTERS: When the Pilgrims got here, where did they land?

MALE SPEAKER: South [unintelligible].


WATTERS: Very suspicious circumstances surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's death. About four months ago, while he was in federal prison, Epstein allegedly committed suicide. Many people, including some top forensic guys, don't even believe it, though. People think he had a lot of enemies. Bestselling author James Patterson knows all about Jeffrey Epstein. He was actually one of his neighbors in Palm Beach, and he wrote a very detailed book about Epstein's scandals called Filthy Rich, where he had three private eyes dig into the case. Patterson also has a new book called Crisscross, the latest in the Alex Cross series, and he joins me now. So, James, looking back, let's start from the beginning. How did Jeffrey Epstein make all of his money?

JAMES PATTERSON, AUTHOR: He did a lot of investments for people, and he also indicated that he could save them a lot on taxes. And he went in, and he said, “Look, I can save you all this money. Otherwise, you're going to have to pay the government. But I want a big piece of it.” That seems to be the biggest part of it. Now we get into the issue of whether he was involved in trafficking of girls around the world. That's, I think, the latest saga and the latest thing. We'll see how that plays out [inaudible] --

WATTERS: Right, that's -

PATTERSON: -- himself.

WATTERS: -- how he ingratiates himself with powerful people. He goes to these --

PATTERSON: Well, you don't know. Right, yeah.

WATTERS: We think he goes to, like, a billionaire, and he says, “Listen, I can save you a boatload of money on taxes. You give me a flat fee,” and that's how he gets a lot of his money.

PATTERSON: Or, “Give me a fee, a flat fee,” yeah.

WATTERS: “Give me some of the action.”

PATTERSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

WATTERS: All right. So --

PATTERSON: We think.

WATTERS: We think. So, he obviously has a lot of money. He's in and around Palm Beach, and he has this strategy for, I guess, recruiting young girls from high schools in the area, very, very manipulative strategy. He kind of got one girl to recruit another girl; they would get paid cash. How did that all come to be?

PATTERSON: Well, I think the amazing thing is that, I mean, there literally were hundreds of underage girls. There were certainly over a hundred that were recruited. He got some kids that would go in and recruit other kids from their high school or junior high school, and these kids range from 14, 15, 16. He apparently did not want older girls at all, which is interesting. He -- the way the girls were instructed is when they came to see him they had to say they were over 18, like that's going to matter. And you know, now we have a lot of the girls; they're grown up. And The Miami Herald -- I mean, actually, in the book we had the police interviews with these -- when they were kids, when they were 14, 15, 16 years, the police interviews, which are pretty devastating.

WATTERS: Yeah. So, the police -- the local guys had a lot of this locked down. They had interviews; they had testimony; they had hard physical evidence that they obtained from his creepy little lair there in Palm Beach. They had pictures, all this crazy stuff.

PATTERSON: The chief -- the police chief there, Reiter, and Detective Recary -- and they really did -- they were the only ones, to me, through most of this thing who really cared about the girls. They said, “This is wrong. This is a terrible thing.” They're both dads, and they hung with that.

WATTERS: Right. And then they got stifled when they'd go to the state's attorney, and the state's attorney did not --

PATTERSON: I think it got stifled earlier.

WATTERS: -- want to take this as seriously as the locals.

PATTERSON: Yeah. I think it -- no, I think the locals had problems, too. I think the locals --

WATTERS: Because he was throwing money around.

PATTERSON: I -- well, I think it was a combination of things. First of all, well, he brought in this dream team with Alan Dershowitz and Black and a few others, and I think the locals got very frightened that they could lose the case. I think what they said was, one, Epstein has already taken care of some of these girls, so they're not going to talk. Secondly, you're not going to be able to prove some of them were ever in his house, and the ones you can prove, we feel we're going to eviscerate them on the witness stand.

WATTERS: Right, discredit them, tarnish you --

PATTERSON: And you could lose, yes.

WATTERS: Okay. And they didn't want to risk that, but they did have him on one count, correct?

PATTERSON: Well, that was all that --

WATTERS: Later on.

PATTERSON: -- the local attorney, when he brought it to -- which was the only time a case like this was ever brought to a grand jury like this. The local -- and they brought him up on one charge of prostitution, essentially.

WATTERS: Right. And the sweetheart deal. People have no idea how sweet this deal was. He was allowed to come and go almost as he pleased from the local cell.

PATTERSON: Well, and they also excused the co-conspirators.

WATTERS: Right, and we'll never know who they are, or is that going to come out?

PATTERSON: Well, we know that Ghislaine Maxwell was involved in some way, shape, or fashion, and now --

WATTERS: And she was who, exactly?

PATTERSON: -- [inaudible] chasing her down. Well --

WATTERS: She was the daughter of a wealthy publisher.

PATTERSON: Maxwell, yeah.

WATTERS: And what was her role, Maxwell?

PATTERSON: Well, it's a little unclear except that she and Jeffrey were clearly best, very good friends. They spend amazing amounts of time together, according to the girls and now the women. Ghislaine was very involved in terms of recruiting the girls. TBD. We'll see how that -- but a lot of the girls say that she was involved. Some of them claim that she was involved in some of the sex sessions. TBD in terms of that. But she definitely was around. She definitely was close to Jeffrey.

WATTERS: And do we know if she's --

PATTERSON: And now she's kind of disappeared.

WATTERS: She has disappeared. Is she ever going to be interviewed again?

PATTERSON: Well, I mean, you get the stories now. The FBI wants to talk to her and then you got Prince Andrew over in England with that --.

WATTERS: It's a disaster.

PATTERSON: I know, I know. I know. He was the one who clearly, when we put the book together and had the investigators out there looking, it wasn't clear what he had done, but it was clear that he was really involved. He was at a lot of parties.

WATTERS: Very close.


WATTERS: With Epstein.


WATTERS: And we also know he was close with Bill Clinton, with Donald Trump. The media seems to be very into these angles, as well.

PATTERSON: [Unintelligible] Yeah, I'm not too keen on that in this sense. OK. Let's take President Trump. I talked to the head of the spa from a woman who ran the spa at Mar-a-Lago and I talked to a couple of times. I said did you know Jeffrey Epstein? She said, "oh, yes." She said, "Mr. Epstein came to the spa and he was inappropriate," in her opinion, with the young girls. And she went to and that point, just Donald Trump. And when he heard about it, he banned Epstein from the club.

WATTERS: OK. So Trump bans Epstein from the club.

PATTERSON: So I don't -- yeah so we never get anything really negative about either he or President Clinton in terms of anything. Zero.

WATTERS: None of your investigators found anything right [unintelligible]?

PATTERSON: No. And we talked to pilots of his plane or his plane, he had a couple of planes and a helicopter, Epstein did.


PATTERSON: And we talked to pilots and they, you know, said no.

WATTERS: OK. So you have talked to pilots?


WATTERS: OK. Because the pilots went to --

PATTERSON: I didn't but the investigators did, yeah.

WATTERS: The pilot went to his private island many, many times with many, many people. We know many girls were there. And I mean, there's pictures now of girls on the island. And none of the pilots that you've interviewed ever named any high-profile people that had gone on the plane with them to the island?

PATTERSON: No. Not the pilots that we talked to. No.

WATTERS: Okay and Bill Clinton, obviously, Amy Robach fingered and said we had the goods, we had a Clinton angle, so to speak, when she spoke to that one young victim that ABC spiked. And now it looks like ABC is really hushed up about this. Are you alarmed by that part of the story?

PATTERSON: Once again, we never got and obviously I didn't want to, but we never got anything that implicated either President Trump or President Clinton.

WATTERS: OK. Now, as it stands today, it looks like the FBI wants to talk to Prince Andrew. Do you believe Prince Andrew, if he does come in for an FBI interview, will shed light on any sort of co-conspirator situation?

PATTERSON: I would be surprised if Prince Andrew comes for an FBI interview.


WATTERS: The last interview didn't go so well with the BBC.

PATTERSON: But you know what, you never know. You never know what's going on here. I mean, I was shocked when I, you know, heard about suicide.

WATTERS: OK. Do you believe that it was suicide or do you believe something else happened?

PATTERSON: I believe it was suicide.

WATTERS: Tell me why because we've had Dr. Michael Baden, highly respected, said that it's more indicative of homicidal strangulation.

PATTERSON: You know what? I mean, I think one of the things about this and we're going to keep getting all the conspiracy theories, you know, forever because this thing touched so many people. You had the MeToo angle, which is, in my opinion, this is the worst of the MeToo stories, much worse than Cosby or Epstein.

WATTERS: Yep because these were young women. Weinstein.

PATTERSON: Or not Epstein; Weinstein. You had the justice system not working at all in terms of what happened to Epstein after the -- you know -- and I think the conspiracy things will keep, so, you know, I could be wrong, but I think he killed himself.

WATTERS: Knowing what you know about this issue, do you see certain soft spots that the investigators could go in? Do you see unfollowed leads, in your opinion, that people need to zero in on that might expose more?

PATTERSON: I think, for a lot of reasons, you'd want to hear more from Wexner.

WATTERS: Maxwell. Oh, Wexner.

PATTERSON: Oh, yes, Wexner in terms of the money, how did he get the money, what was the relationship?

WATTERS: And Wexner was the billionaire who owns the company that owns the Victoria's Secret.

PATTERSON: Victoria's Secret and Limited and clearly was getting a lot of financial advice from Epstein and should be able to tell us a lot about Epstein's money. He -- I don't --obviously, he doesn't want to talk.


PATTERSON: I don't blame him.

WATTERS: And Epstein was using his connection with these modeling people to help recruit from overseas.

PATTERSON: Well, that's the next piece of this thing in terms of large stories is trafficking of young girls.

WATTERS: The trafficking.

PATTERSON: [unintelligible] which has been a big story for a long time. I don't think anybody's really opened that up the way you might be able to open up and that's potentially massive.

WATTERS: Okay. And lastly, the villains involved besides Epstein, we know the guy is an evil man. Who are the primary villains or people in power that you feel who were not responsible in handling the situation.

PATTERSON: I think the local attorneys backed off too early. I don't blame Acosta, honestly, because when he got pulled in and I think the interesting thing about Acosta is that's when the media got on this thing. Really got on it.


PATTERSON: They didn't care about the girls. But all of a sudden, "oh, Alex Acosta, the guy who President Trump appointed secretary of labor. Ooh. Who cares about the girls? But we can --" Which is crazy. But that's when this thing really blew up in the media --.

WATTERS: Because you finished this book, Filthy Rich, which everybody should read. It's the definitive, in my opinion, piece on the Epstein scandal.

PATTERSON: It's the only piece at this stage.

WATTERS: This was out in 2016. And you said there wasn't a lot of people clamoring for this book.

PATTERSON: Well, no, we did fine with the book. But in terms of going out to the media, we couldn't get -- and I'm going like, seriously? I mean, this story is ama -- that's why I wrote the book, because the story is so incredible. And we had most of them and we had, you know, investigations of the president. We had Acosta, we had interviews, you know, police interviews with the girls. We had most of it there. Obviously, we didn't know that Epstein would supply the perfect ending by killing himself. But we had most of the rest.

WATTERS: All right. Now you have the new one, Criss Cross. And this is one of many that you've written about Alex Cross. And tell us what this is about, because this, again, is about justice and the miscarriage of justice and misconduct.

PATTERSON: Yeah, well, I think the other interesting thing about Criss Cross is on the same day we're bringing Ali Cross, which is his 12 year old son. And I'm so big on trying to get kids reading and having the parents and grandparents interact. So we've got an Alex Cross. And in this book, one of the things that happens is that Alex has to try to save Ali, his son, who gets in some trouble. And Ali Cross, Ali, who's 11, 12 years old, who's watched his father and his stepmother as police people and one of his friends is missing, so he applies some of what he's learned from his father and goes out looking for this missing friend, which I -- and I love that idea and these books came out at the same time. And Ali's been in a lot of the -- the last three or four adult books. So I just liked that idea. Good going, Jenny.

WATTERS: [laughs] Well, always suspenseful. Always a thrilling read. James Patterson, Filthy Rich and Criss Cross. Here they are. Thank you very much for coming and shedding some light on this stuff. Still ahead, a Watters' World Thanksgiving quiz. But first, Black Friday cast, Americans going to war with each other over deals. What the heck is going on with us?


WATTERS: Last weekend's Harvard-Yale game delayed almost an hour. A bunch of students swarmed the field to protest global warming. About 50 Ivy Leaguers were arrested, the crowd not happy about it. Yale ended up winning by a touchdown in double OT. But this isn't the only time these global warming protesters have inconvenienced people. Remember, in October hundreds of protesters jammed subway stations in London, disrupted everything. One person even climbed on one of the trains. And here in New York City they stopped traffic in the heart of Times Square; they tied themselves to a boat. And in D.C., several protesters stopped a line of cars just waiting to drive through a traffic light. Here for his reaction, we turn to actor Dean Cain. Now, Dean, a part of me just wanted them to just second half and just run these guys over.

DEAN CAIN, ACTOR: A huge part of me wanted them to do that exact same thing. I played on that field; I played at Princeton, and I hate that field because I lost both times I played there. But those guys work their tails off. Those ballplayers -- they work their tails off. They want to play ball, they want to go, and this is a -- you know, slowing them down for an hour could be detrimental to the players, to their health. You tighten up. It changes everything.

WATTERS: I mean, it could have changed the whole outcome of the game if you think about it.

CAIN: They really should have let them play. I guarantee those players would have played on, and that field would have cleared really --

WATTERS: [laughs] I know.

CAIN: -- really quickly.

WATTERS: I know, they would have gotten trucked, and these people don't look like they play sports anyway.

CAIN: No, they don't, but you know, that's a hard thing. I mean, they want attention, okay?

WATTERS: It's about them.

CAIN: It's a bit about them, their signs, but their message wasn't even clear. It's like, you know, relieve the debt on Puerto Rico, and, you know, the Uighurs are getting bad treatment in China.

WATTERS: They don't know what they're protesting.

CAIN: But they are very happy to protest.

WATTERS: And you know what they did? They trashed the tailgate section.

CAIN: Of course they did.

WATTERS: I mean, look at it. These people care so much about Planet Earth. Look what they did. I mean, you know what they could have done? Instead of going into the 50-yard line, they could have just picked up all the garbage, and that would have been a more carbon-neutral protest.

CAIN: A hundred percent, but there's no way that's going to happen. Every one of these climate protests, you see that. They just trash the area.

WATTERS: Like on Earth Day, remember?

CAIN: Yes.

WATTERS: Have you seen those pictures from Earth Day?

CAIN: Just stuff piled everywhere. So, it rings hollow.

WATTERS: It does.

CAIN: I will have to say congratulations to Yale, because they were co-Ivy champs, them and Dartmouth, and Princeton was out of it this year.

WATTERS: All right. Sorry about Princeton. All right, we have some footage of some of the best and the worst of these presidential turkey pardons. We wanted to ask Dean about that because he loves to eat turkey.

CAIN: I do.

WATTERS: Roll it.

THEN-PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The office of the presidency, the most powerful position in the world, brings with it many awesome and solemn responsibilities. This is not one of them.

MALE SPEAKER: Look, I had a chance to shoot a bunch of you the other day and didn't.

THEN-PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Biscuits, welcome. Marshmallow and Yam.

OBAMA: Caramel and Popcorn. Tater and Tot.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Drumstick. Peas and Carrots.

OBAMA: I want to take a moment to recognize the brave turkeys who weren't so lucky, who didn't get to ride the gravy train to freedom, who met their fate with courage and sacrifice, and proved that they weren't chicken.

TRUMP: Even though Peas and Carrots have received a presidential pardon, I have warned them that House Democrats are likely to issue them both subpoenas. I can't guarantee that your pardons won't be enjoined by the Ninth Circuit. Always happens.

WATTERS: [laughs] Very good. Now, people want to get rid of this tradition. They hate that. They're complaining, “Oh, Trump's this big criminal. Why are we pretending we're having fun with these pardons?” I love them.

CAIN: I think they're hysterical. I mean, even though those moments -- Bill Clinton clapping because, you know, there's a little mess made there --

WATTERS: [laughs] Yeah.

CAIN: -- the one turkey going after George W. Bush -- that was just great stuff.

WATTERS: Yeah, he went below the belt on W.

CAIN: Hey, taking a shot, taking a shot at him, you know. I think it's hysterical; I think it's fun. It shows a lighter part of the presidency. President Obama was very funny with his things. Bread and Butter, just recently pardoned --

WATTERS: Do you like that name? I like Tater and Tot.

CAIN: That's pretty good. I forgot --

WATTERS: It doesn't get much better than that.

CAIN: Bread and Butter is good, though.

WATTERS: That is --

CAIN: [unintelligible] --

WATTERS: You're getting hungry right now.

CAIN: I am very hungry for that. That was pretty awesome. I think it's great fun, and there's -- it's like the no-fun brigade. Why -- it's like with the NFL [inaudible] --

WATTERS: I know. Relax, everybody, relax.

CAIN: Relax.

WATTERS: You know what's not a lot of fun? If you're trying to go to Best Buy or something like that on Black Friday. You could get your head taken off. I mean, some of these people on Black Friday -- they go in there, and they're trying to kill some people. They want that flat-screen, and they want it bad. I mean, what does it say about the culture that they will literally kill someone to get 50 percent off?

CAIN: That is -- it is a very, very frightening reality, but for me, I love Black Friday and these videos --

WATTERS: You do?

CAIN: -- because I could sit and watch these for hours.

WATTERS: [laughs] From the comfort of your own home.

CAIN: I will never be out on Black Friday. I will just watch it. It's insane to me. It goes to the lower -- the base human emotion of, like, survival, you think, but they're going for a flat-screen TV. It's kind of messed up.

WATTERS: You know what? I'm going to bring you to Black Friday next year. You're going to be my lead blocker.

CAIN: I will do it.

WATTERS: Just get out in front, and I'll just follow you, all right?

CAIN: I'll create some space, and we'll walk out with some TVs.

WATTERS: Sounds good.

CAIN: All right.

WATTERS: Thanks very much, Dean. All right. Up next, the busiest travel week of the year. Airplanes become Armageddon. A flight attendant is here to tell us some of the most disgusting and shocking things she's ever seen. Be warned.


WATTERS: A record 32 million people are expected to fly this holiday week, and some of those travelers are straight up animals. I'm not talking about emotional support animals. In fact, passengers are actually the biggest threat to the flight crew. Passengers. And a few months ago, former flight crew manager for Virgin Airlines, Ally Murphy, shared with me some of her secrets from the skies. All right, Ally, what is some of the most inappropriate things that passengers have subjected you to on a flight?

ALLY MURPHY, FORMER FLIGHT CREW MANAGER: Wow. Inappropriate things. I think the usual sort of tapping on the behind to get my attention. That's kind of inappropriate. I wouldn't tap anybody on the behind for any other reason.

WATTERS: [laughter].

MURPHY: But [unintelligible] you can do that. So things like that. I've had, I've caught passengers trying to sneak into the bathrooms to get --.

WATTERS: The mile-high club.

MURPHY: Oh, yeah. And actually, I remember --

WATTERS: Yeah let me ask you, though, so if you catch someone trying to join the mile high club, do you stop them or do you how do you deal with that?

MURPHY: It depends if I like them. If they've been nice people and, you know, it's kind of discreet. I think, you know, you kids have fun.

WATTERS: [laughs]

MURPHY: But --.


MURPHY: [unintelligible] then they're out of there.

WATTERS: OK and you work for Virgin Airlines. That's true, OK.


WATTERS: I guess there's different rules. Sometimes you have severely intoxicated people. You know, they're popping pills, they're drinking wine. What are some of the worst things you've seen on that level?

MURPHY: I think that the worst time for me was a guy who had taken sleeping tablets and then he'd brought -- he'd snuck on his own alcohol. He drunk an entire bottle of wine to himself, little did we know. But the two together, they can kind of create a reaction where you don't actually know what you're doing. You don't sleep, but you have no idea what you're doing. So, this guy, he went around and he stole all the other passengers' shoes and was trying them on and then he sat next to his wife, didn't recognize her. And then he just suddenly thought, I want to get off here. So he tried to open the door, the aircraft door, which of course that meant that we had to then jump on him and restrain him.

WATTERS: Oh, my God. So you jumped on the guy for trying to open the door mid-flight. Did you, what, did you have to put handcuffs on him?

MURPHY: Well, we were going to. You can't open the door mid-flight. It's not possible.

WATTERS: That's a big no-no.

MURPHY: Yeah. So we pinned him down. And then he passed out. So then he became a medical situation and we had [unintelligible].

WATTERS: What happens when someone gets physically aggressive because we've seen tons of videos, people throwing punches, people kicking, people refusing to leave. What's the protocol there?

MURPHY: The protocol is to try and calm the situation down, which we always will try and do. We have training every year to go through situations where you are trying to defuse the situation.

WATTERS: Has someone ever tried to throw a punch at you or any of your colleagues?

MURPHY: Not me personally, but a couple of my friends, they've received punches, one from a celebrity, actually. That was fun.

WATTERS: Was it Charlie Sheen?

MURPHY: No, it wasn't, no. Female celebrity.

WATTERS: Was it Greg Gutfeld?


WATTERS: You're not going to tell me who it was, are you?

MURPHY: I'm not. No. Just because [unintelligible]

WATTERS: All right. You'll tell me after the commercial break. All right. Listen, it sounds like survival of the fittest up there. I congratulate you for dealing with people so politely. I bet your temper must have been here at some -- did you ever lose your temper real quick?

MURPHY: Once when a passenger swore at me and said that it was my fault that the plane was delayed because I'd been doing CPR on a guy.

WATTERS: Oh, OK. Very nice man. Well, thanks for not snapping on everybody. And thanks for your liberal mile high club policy. I think many people would enjoy that. All right, Ali, thank you very much.

MURPHY: Thank you.

WATTERS: Up next, one of our favorite traditions, the Watters' World Thanksgiving quiz. Around what year was the first Thanksgiving?

MALE SPEAKER: 1942. Columbus sailed the ocean blue.


WATTERS: The Watters' World quiz, a time-honored tradition. Here's the best and the worst of Thanksgiving trivia.


WATTERS: Around what year was the first Thanksgiving?

MALE SPEAKER: 1942, Columbus sailed the ocean blue, so --

WATTERS: [laughs] That was so wrong. [sound effect]


WATTERS: 1860? Very close.


WATTERS: What year, around, was the first Thanksgiving?


[sound effect]


WATTERS: No, that was a high five.

FEMALE SPEAKER: That was a high five. That's what I thought.

WATTERS: Who ate together on the first Thanksgiving?

FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, God, is this one of those quiz shows that make you look dumb?


FEMALE SPEAKER: White people?

WATTERS: Who were these white people that were eating on the first Thanksgiving? What were they called? The Pil--

FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, the Pillsbury?

[sound effect]

FEMALE SPEAKER: The Pilgrims came to America. [sound effect] Americans fed them, welcomed them to our country.

WATTERS: So, the Pilgrims dined with the Americans?

FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes. [sound effect]

WATTERS: The American people?


WATTERS: What country did the Pilgrims come from?

FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, God, now you're pushing it. It's been a long time since I've been in grammar school.


WATTERS: Europe is not a country.


[sound effect]


[sound effect]


[sound effect]


[sound effect]

WATTERS: Somewhere around there?



WATTERS: Israel?


WATTERS: Not Israel. The Pilgrims were not Jewish [laughs]. What country did the Pilgrims come from?


[sound effect]

South America?

[sound effect]

I don't know. I'm not getting these right now [laughs]. [unintelligible]

WATTERS: How did the Pilgrims get here?


WATTERS: What was the name of the boat?


WATTERS: What was the name of the boat?


[sound effect]


[sound effect]


[sound effect]

The Pinta?

[sound effect]

FEMALE SPEAKER: The Santa Maria?

[sound effect]

[laughs] I have no idea.

FEMALE SPEAKER: The Mayflower. [sound effect]

FEMALE SPEAKER: Mayflower. [sound effect]

WATTERS: Excellent. Just right over yonder.


WATTERS: Why did the Pilgrims come from England?


MALE SPEAKER: It was to explore the West.

[sound effect]

FEMALE SPEAKER: To spread their empire.

[sound effect]


[sound effect]


[sound effect.

WATTERS: [laughs]

MALE SPEAKER: They were from the United Kingdom –

[sound effect]

-- escaping religious persecution.

WATTERS: What do you think was on the menu at the first Thanksgiving?

FEMALE SPEAKER: Perhaps some sort of local vegetables and maybe meat. Turkey? I don't know. Buffalo?

[sound effect]


[sound effect]

I have no idea.

MALE SPEAKER: Maybe wild turkeys –

[sound effect]

-- pheasants –

[sound effect]

WATTERS: Wild Turkey, like the drink?

MALE SPEAKER: No, that probably would have made the dinner a whole lot better, though.

MALE SPEAKER: Oh, hard to say.

FEMALE SPEAKER: Maybe some lobsters –

[sound effect]

-- turkeys –

[sound effect]

FEMALE SPEAKER: Hush puppies, like, boiled and fried.

WATTERS: How did they fry it?

[sound effect]

When the Pilgrims got here, where did they land?

MALE SPEAKER: South Carolina.

[sound effect]


[sound effect]


[sound effect]

MALE SPEAKER: I have no idea.

FEMALE SPEAKER: Plymouth Rock.

[sound effect]

WATTERS: Yes, and where is Plymouth Rock?

FEMALE SPEAKER: In Massachusetts.

WATTERS: You are incredible.


WATTERS: Do you know who I am?

MALE SPEAKER: No. Who the hell are you?

WATTERS: I'm Watters --

MALE SPEAKER: Right, Watters.

WATTERS: -- and this is my world.


WATTERS: Up next, Last Call.


WATTERS: Last Call. This time of year, it's important to reflect on what we're most grateful for -- our health and our families -- but for my next guest, each and every day is a blessing. Sixteen-year-old Matthew Levine has FSGS, a chronic kidney disease that has no known cause or cure. Matthew was diagnosed at just two-and-a-half years old. He takes up to 15 pills a day, and he's probably going to need a kidney transplant. Matthew joins me now with his father, Michael Levine. All right, Matthew, what's life like under these conditions? How does a regular day for you go?

MATTHEW LEVINE: Well, first, thank you for having me.

WATTERS: Of course. Thanks for coming in.

LEVINE: Well, it's very hard because I have to take 15 pills a day. I have to watch the amount of salt I eat -- sodium -- and, like, miss out on a lot of activities with friends because I'm tired and fatigued and can't hang out with my friends.

WATTERS: So, what kind of activities aren't you able to do?

LEVINE: Sports. When I was younger, I would play baseball, and some days I'd miss a lot of practices because I was very tired.

WATTERS: And as your father, he loves you so much. I met him at an event a little while ago, and, man, you are so lucky to have a dad like that. And he told me about the situation, and I just wanted to come talk to you about it. What's been your kind of greatest moment since you've been kind of thrust into this issue?

LEVINE: I think, Jesse, the greatest moment is just seeing my son be a hero. I think he just -- he's been a hero to everybody. He's been a hero to everybody. He's been a hero to the children and adults around the world that are afflicted with this horrible kidney, devastating chronic kidney disease and just watching him. He just made a speech at our dinner on November 14th where we raised $1.2 million and we had 700 people and just watching him speak in front of 700 people, as a 16-year-old, has been just an unbelievable thing, to watch something good come out of something that's so bad.

WATTERS: Were you nervous when you were up there in front of all these people?

LEVINE: I was so nervous, but I was able to do it because like I had so many people I love in front of me.

WATTERS: Were you more nervous then or on Watters' World right now?

LEVINE: Right now.

WATTERS: There's nothing to be nervous -- and NephCure is an organization that can help out a lot with this issue.

LEVINE: So, Jesse, as we discussed at that fundraiser, it's www.nephcure.org. Nephcure.org, the only organization in the world trying to find a cure for FSGS nephrotic syndrome and IGA nephropothy.

WATTERS: Very brave man. Thank you guys very much, Matt, Michael.

LEVINE: Thanks you so much. I appreciate it.

WATTERS: All right. That's all for tonight. Be sure to follow me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. "Justice with Judge Jeanine" is next. And remember, I'm Watters and this is my world.

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