Is Obama trying to reposition and rebrand his presidency?

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Is Obama trying to reposition and rebrand his presidency?

Obama breaking tradition of former presidents and criticizes Trump during a public appearance; reaction from panel on 'The Ingraham Angle.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," November 28, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: All right, I am Laura Ingraham. This is "The Ingraham Angle" from a very busy Washington tonight. What else would it be? The president is taking forceful aim at the special counsel investigation, claiming that Mueller's witness tactics end up being pure of McCarthyism. Joe diGenova is here to tell us why he thinks Mueller's team members can be sanctioned.

Plus, an anti-Trump sitcom is canceled. We predicted it. And singer Celine Dion is pushing a rather unconventional clothing line for children. Why it all matters? Well, Raymond Arroyo will break it all down. He's here. Details in "Seen and Unseen." And by the way, who are the hidden figures inside the country, our country, helping to guide and organize the caravans to our southern border.

An "Ingraham Angle" multi-part investigation, we have another installment tonight. But first, Obama's failed reset. That's the focus of tonight's "Angle."

The Obama's left the White House almost two years ago. Can you believe it? But they don't want you to forget how awesome they were. Excuse me, are. Well, with Michelle's current rock star like book tour, the pair's global speech (inaudible) and their deep ties to Hollywood celebs, they are hard to avoid.

Last night, Barack Obama visited the Baker Institute in Houston, Texas, and he came off as a man who is obsessed with himself and obsessed with taking credit for another guy's -- Trump's-- success.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: And by the way, American energy production, you wouldn't always know it but, you know, it went up every year when I was president. And that whole, suddenly America is like the biggest oil producer and the biggest -- that was me, people. I just want you to --

Sometimes you go to Wall Street and folks would be grumbling about anti- business. I said have you checked where your stocks were when I came in office and where they are now. What are you talking -- what are you complaining about? Just say thank you please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: No thank you. Obama's efforts at legacy building notwithstanding the difference between the two president's economic records are stark. Andy Puzder, fast food exec and one-time Trump labor secretary nominee wrote a fantastic piece in yesterday's Wall Street Journal.

He compared the end of the Obama economy with the beginning of the Trump economy. Check this out. GDP growth staggered along at 1.5 percent in Mr. Obama's final six full quarters in office. But growth doubled to 3 percent during Mr. Trump's first six full quarters. The increase in job openings over Mr. Trump's first 21 months has averaged an impressive 75,000 a month.

But over Mr. Obama's last 20 months in office, the number of job openings increased an average of 900 a month. Well, during Mr. Obama's last 21 months, the number of employed Americans increased -- not bad -- an average of 157,000 a month. But under Mr. Trump, the increase has accelerated to 214,000 a month. A whopping 36 percent improvement. Unbelievable.

Well, on top of that, we all know other facts, right. There had been record low African-American, Latino unemployment. Credible rise in small business applications, and totally jacked up consumer confidence. You get the point. Obama's pathetic attempt to take credit for the fruits of his successors policies while Obama criticizes most of those very same policies, just patently ridiculous. And that's not the only thing by the way that doesn't wash in Obama land.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Michelle and I and our girls, we came out intact in a -- and what I mean by that is that the core values that we brought into the office, pretty homespun values of, you know, tell the truth and try to see the other person's point of view and treat people kindly and with respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: With respect? Excuse me if I laugh. Like all the respect his administration and he himself showed for any Obama critic?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Let me just make this point, John, because we are not campaigning anymore. The election is over.

They had suspicions about whether government should make sure that kids in poverty are getting enough to eat.

Think of how much better off our country would be if Republican politicians hadn't spent years precisely trying to scare voters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: That's all Republicans did. And that was the nice stuff he said by the way. And as far as his homespun values that he bragged about last night, values like, I don't know, telling the truth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: And Solyndra is going to be a really good investment -- $500 million down the tube. Well, Obama is spending his nonretirement pining away, let's face it, for the bygone era when liberals dominated all media platforms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Whether it was Cronkite or Brinkley or what had you, there was a common set of facts, a baseline around which both parties had to adapt and respond to. And by the time I take office, what you increasingly have is a media environment in which if you are a Fox News viewer, you have an entirely different reality than if you are a "New York Times" reader.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Yes, it is entirely different. We see the world as it is, while "The New York Times" and certain other networks sell their own version of reality. And oftentimes that version of reality is one where all those flyover people in the middle of the country, they kind of just fade away to be replaced by hip or cool or progressives and maybe some socialist urbanites.

Well some of us on talk radio and the president despises talk radio, we actually speak with the so-called deplorables every day. We actually saw Trump's victory coming while the so-called erudite said, who live and die by every headline and the old gray lady, were confident right up until the end that Hillary Clinton was going to win.

But the real reason Obama detests Fox, talk radio, pretty much any conservative website, is because he prefers life kind of the way it was or is today on college campuses, you know, where diversity of thought is largely nonexistent and where violators of vague community standards are punished or shunned.

And meanwhile, where sycophants and toadies, certain liberal ideals or people enjoy special privileges and nonstop accolades from professors for their courage and their insight. Guess what? Millions of Americans were actually glad either they didn't go to university or they are glad that they live now in something called the real world. They actually graduated and they prefer news sources and commentary where their own values are not under constant assault and ridicule by the so-called elites.

But Barack Obama kind of has contempt for a lot of those values, at least in a lot of the values you and I hold dear. And he doesn't have all that much respect for any American who doesn't think like he does. Now, this line last night made it clear he hasn't learned much of anything since his snide, bitter clinger comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: That quickly enough to the fact that there were people being left behind and that frustrations were going to flare up. In those environments, you then start getting a different kind of politics. You start getting the politics based on a nationalism that's not pride in country but hatred for somebody on the other side of the border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: OK, so let me just get this straight. Anyone who supported Donald Trump especially his immigration policy, border enforcement and the like, is basically a racist xenophobic bigot or maybe you are just one of the mill stupid hick. He has an interesting way of kind of saying -- he doesn't come out and say it, but that's, you know, you don't have to be Einstein to read between the lines there.

At bottom, it's a negative and cynical view of about half of the American population currently. You know when you think about the dark, cynical view of America, do you know what it reminds me of?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEREMIAH WRIGHT, PASTOR, TRINITY UNITED CHURC OF CHRIST: The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and they want us to see God bless America. No, no, no. Not God bless America. God damn America. It's in the bible. They are killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human.

OBAMA: I don't think that my church is actually particularly controversial as a member of the United Church of Christ.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: No, no, it's not controversial. Well, I guess you can take the man out of Reverend Wright's church but you can't take Jeremiah Wright's mind-set sometimes out of the man. Beneath all the polished and the smooth talk and kind of side jokes, Obama still can't see that there are substantive reasons why not everyone loves him. Maybe not as much as to the likes of Beyonce and Jay-Z do. And that's the Angle.

Here to react, Victor David Hanson, senior fellow at Stanford University Hoover Institution and author of the forthcoming book, "The Case for Trump," Howard Kurtz, host of "MediaBuzz," and Austan Goolsbee, former economic advisor to President Obama.

So Victor, let me start with you. Why does President Obama -- he feels like he has to always come out and try to rebrand his presidency. It seems really insecure. They always kind of claim Donald Trump is insecure. It seems like he's very insecure to kind of say, well, I am the one who got all the oil stuff going and I'm the one who did -- when the facts just frankly are not there in comparing the two economic records, as you see Puzder do in the "Journal" yesterday.

VICTOR DAVID HANSON, SENIOR FELLOW, STANFORD UNIVERSITY HOOVER INSTITUTION:  Yes, I think there are two points. One is the progressive mind-set sees politics as a 360-degree, 24/7 operation or job, so the last day in office is the first day of another progressive career. We saw that with Jimmy Carter. Remember, he always had the comment and editorialize and travel when Reagan was president.

During the two Bush's presidencies, Al Gore and Bill Clinton were quite active in criticism. And Obama is doing the same thing. For them, it's a nonstop activity. And, you know, they need to get a ranch. He should go to Hawaii and buy a farm and focus on Netflix. That's what Reagan -- went up to the ranch. W (ph) went to the ranch and let his predecessor be.

And it's kind of an irony that we have an antithetical presidency back-to- back, a progressive and a starkly conservative and when you let history adjudicate, you brought up facts, but the prior administration prognosticated that you need a magic wand to carry off what Trump promised and Paul Krugman said the stock market was going to tank and Barack Obama said you can't drill your way out of oil shortages and Larry Summers I think said 3 percent GDP.

INGRAHAM: It was a fantasy. No, it was all a fantasy. It was all a fantasy. Never going to happen. Never going to do --

HANSON: Yes, exactly. And Trump came in and said no, I'm going to deregulate, I mean, do all these things. Yes, and so let history decide. We are only 18 months into the administration. You cited the facts. Obama should stop re-litigating the past and be empirical.

INGRAHAM: Let it play out.

HANSON: And let (inaudible) decide.

INGRAHAM: Yes, we'll see. We'll see in another two years. Maybe all of this will go away and I certainly hope it doesn't.

HANSON: Absolutely.

INGRAHAM: Howie, I want to focus on the media aspect of all this. It really is quite something because a lot of the things they accuse President Trump of, thin-skinned, insecure --

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEW HOST: Narcissist.

INGRAHAM: -- narcissist, boasting. I mean, the fingers always pointed back at you, like the Buddha said. And it seems like when you watch Obama, yes, he's cool. He's kind of back in the chair. He's fun. But it seems like a lot of that going on here.

KURTZ: Barack Obama got the most gushing press since George Washington and clearly he misses it and he misses the spotlight, but he has to give a rest to this golden oldie about Fox News. That record is so scratched up and being played so many times. He completely ignores the fact there are all these liberal media outlets that make Trump bashing a 24/7 business model.

Now, I give him a little more slack than you do because all ex-presidents talk up what they think is good about their record, but a lot of it is the indirect shots at Donald Trump. He doesn't mention Trump's name since the midterm elections --

INGRAHAM: Yes, but come on, that's so obvious.

KURTZ: But we all know when he talks about, well, you know, nobody near me was indicted, he's talking Paul Manafort, he's talking Mike Flynn. You know, this is the way he is trying I think to make himself look better t his successor's expense.

INGRAHAM: But why is that -- why he's offending half of the population, a good strategy for expanding his influence into 2020 for instance. I mean, it's the same thing they always do. It's what Hillary did with the deplorables. He got away with it with the bitter clinger thing because he was so good as a politician.

But there are not many Obama's who got to come around and be an Obama type person. But Fox, talk radio, they have pretty much everything. They have the universities, they have most of the churches, they have most media outlets still today, most all newspapers for the most part, and that is still not good enough. That's what is stunning to me.

KURTZ: Yes. Well, I think that, you know, Barack Obama's view of the world is simply that where he still can't believe that Donald Trump won the election.

INGRAHAM: He can't believe that people -- all people don't love him which is what they accuse Trump of. Trump gets mad if you slight him. If you criticize him even slightly, Trump reminds you of it, but that's what Obama does.

KURTZ: Right. But he's probably feeling slightly emboldened by the fact that Democrats took the House and he's saying (inaudible), now they're going to see that I was better than he remember.

INGRAHAM: Yes, we'll see. Austan, this is what the president said, speaking of the no indictments. He made this comment. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Not only did I not get indicted, nobody in my administration got indicted which by the way was the only administration in modern history that that can be said about. In fact, nobody came close to being indicted partly because the people who joined us were there for the right reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Oh, really? I mean, let's go through the list. Short of indictments, Austan. Fast and furious, IRS scandal, Solyndra -- we believe $500 million taxpayers money, Benghazi -- we have dead U.S. ambassador -- Susan Rice went out there and said it was a tape that caused the deaths. The V.A. scandal, a disaster. Tens of thousands of veterans denied care. Shinseki resigns in disgrace.

You know, of course we had the OPM hacked by the Chinese which was a nightmare. And we could go on and on and on. So yes, no one was indicted. Maybe that's more, you know, maybe that's more related to the fact that we had Loretta Lynch and Eric Holder in the Justice Department. I don't know. That's just a speculation.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER ECONOMIC ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: I don't know. It seems like you got to kind of focus your fire there, Laura. You're (inaudible) all over the place.

INGRAHAM: Oh really? They are facts. What are those facts?

GOOLSBEE: What I will say is, well, I would observe two things. One, I agree with you and I agree with our discussion there. I prefer if -- I would prefer if President Obama and all previous presidents kind of let it go, let the battles be fought not by the old administration. Let the new administration -- even if you think they are making mistakes, I don't think it's right for the president to be the one out leading personal attacks.

You saw with the bush administration, George Bush, he went to the ranch. Dick Cheney took a totally different approach. He was very critical by name, you know, going after the administration. And I favor the Bush approach. I wish Obama were not being as critical as he is.

That said, I don't think that it's an exaggeration when the president says there are more people being indicted and there have been more scandals under the Trump administration than there were under the Obama administration. That's all for a fact.

INGRAHAM: But the point, but -- I understand what you're saying. Technically that is true. However, what he's intending all of us to take away from that is we had this ethical group. They were only in there to do good stuff. Well, I mean --

GOOLSBEE: Well, I was trying to do good stuff -- look, it's a fair point.

INGRAHAM: I am not saying you weren't. See, we love you.

GOOLSBEE: I started from the spot that I agree with you. I don't think that the president should be -- the former president should be saying that about the current president.

INGRAHAM: Yes. VDH, go ahead.

HANSON: I would just say I don't think that's quite correct because the verdict is not out. Eric Holder was the first attorney general to be held in contempt of Congress. Lois Lerner pled the Fifth Amendment and we don't know what's going to happen with the Obama FBI, CIA, NSC, and DOJ officials because the verdict is not out on Bruce Ohr.

Eight to 10 FBI officials have already been retired or reassigned or maybe facing indictment. We saw that James Comey and John Brennan, James Clapper, it's not over because we are looking at a situation where a presidential candidate hired a foreign national to find dirt on her opponent in that dossier was seeded among top officials of the Obama administration. We haven't had an accounting, ethical or legal yet and it's coming.

INGRAHAM: And we didn't have a chance to put that in our graphic, Victor, so you actually win the graphics award tonight. Thank you so much guys. Great segment. And coming up, what else did Obama get wrong? Well, historian Craig Shirley is here to tell us.

Plus, can targets of the Mueller probe sue the special counsel or his team and could the Mueller team even be sanctioned? Joe diGenova, dan Bongino, and Goodstein take that up ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Former President Obama didn't just attempt to remake his own past but also the success America enjoyed in the aftermath of the Cold War. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The Washington consensus, whatever you want to call it, got a little too comfortable with, you know, they all look at the GDP numbers and they are looking at the internet and everything is looking pretty great. And particularly after the Cold War -- after what you guys engineered, you have this period of great smugness on the part of America and American elites thinking we got this all figured out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Joining me now, Reagan historian and author of "Rendezvous with Destiny" Craig Shirley. Craig, you were particularly struck by former President Obama's historical illiteracy. Please explain.

CRAIG SHIRLEY, REAGAN HISTORIAN: Look Laura, I can understand why he wouldn't be smug about the winning of the Cold War. We in fact won the Cold War. We didn't end the cold war. But we freed millions of people formerly imprisoned behind the iron curtain. We tore down an evil empire. Ronald Reagan literally changed the world than previous presidents, as that we should have been smug.

I think one of the great failings when the wall finally fell and Gorbachev resigned, the George H.W. Bush administration, is he never went on national television to explain to the American people why the anti-communist policies of Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy and every president going forward and why the policies of why 55,000 boys didn't die in vain in Vietnam. Why the vigil a long twilight struggle against Soviet communism was important. It was a great struggle.

INGRAHAM: And tie it all together.

SHIRLEY: Yes. Exactly. We should have been smug. We won. The good guys won and the bad guys lost. We should have been smug.

INGRAHAM: No, you are smug today when you pass Obamacare and then the website doesn't launch. You know, that is something to be really smug about. Craig, I got to play something else for you because we don't have a ton of time.

SHIRLEY: OK.

INGRAHAM: Identity politics was discussed at length last night and this need for civility, like we had civility during Obama or in the recent past and now we have no civility apparently because of Fox News, talk radio and a few conservative websites. But this is what he said about identity politics and where it all began. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: When I hear people say they don't like identity politics, they don't like -- I think it's important to remember that identity politics doesn't just apply when it's black people or gay people or women. The folks who really originated identity politics with the folks who said, you know, 3/5 clause (inaudible). That was identity politics. Jim Crow was identity politics. That's where it started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Thoughts there?

SHIRLEY: Well, he was just lost where his teleprompter, isn't he? He talked about Jim Crow in the context of the American Revolution -- is that Jim Crow was 100 years later and without the framework that was created, the brilliance of the framers in Philadelphia in 1707, he never would have been elected president. We never would have had the chance to pass the 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution.

So, is that to attack the framers and founders as being mired in identity politics, the American Revolution was about escaping the identity politics of the British Empire where British subjects had rights and American subjects had no rights. I can't think of any better example of identity politics than that.

INGRAHAM: So he went to pretty good schools, right? Credibly well-educated and --

SHIRLEY: But did he crack a book?

INGRAHAM: Well, I mean, you know, everyone complains. All the things they complain about Trump, that he doesn't read enough history, all the things the elites -- or he's narcissistic, he's thin-skinned, he's obsessed with his own -- what person who runs for president, except for Reagan may be, doesn't have an outsized ego. They all do.

But for all the things they criticized Trump for, watching Obama last night, I mean, he's kind of a cool (inaudible). He has really cool approach, but come on. He is so mad about Trump's success. He is so enraged that things have gone really well in the economy. So he has to say I did it. I find that to be -- it's just not that mature for someone who fancies himself as mature kind of elites, well-educated individual.

SHIRLEY: Yes, he said something curious too. He said, well, nobody was indicted. Of course, you just went through a whole litany (ph) of scandals (inaudible) to the Obama's eight years in office. One thing that you overlooked was the criminal use of the IRS to shut down the (inaudible) around the country --

INGRAHAM: Yes. That was on the list. Lois Lerner, yes, but I didn't mention it. Give me a break.

SHIRLEY: He was. But he said nobody was indicted since that -- that's like saying, well, I should go on Mount Rushmore because I didn't rob banks. I mean, that's not really, you know, something to really boast about, as to say, well, nobody was indicted --

INGRAHAM: Hey Craig, has the Nobel committee ever been the same since President Obama won the Nobel Prize?

SHIRLEY: No, but the Nobel committee --

INGRAHAM: I mean, that's -- we just let that go. I mean, that was amazing.

SHIRLEY: Yes, but you go back to Japan occupation by Douglas MacArthur, he deserved the Nobel Prize for that and he never got it.

INGRAHAM: All right, Craig, thanks so much. And President Trump sending clear messages to Mueller's special counsel team today in a wide-ranging interview with The New York Post. He addressed the targeting of Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, and Jerome Corsi saying, "We are in a McCarthy era. That was a bad situation for the country, but this is where we are."

With regard to Manafort, his message to Mueller was a little more direct saying of a part of the following, "I wouldn't take it off the table. Why would I take it off the table?" Here to discuss, former U.S attorney Joe diGenova, former Clinton advisor and attorney Richard Goodstein and host of the Dan Bongino podcast and author of "Spygate," Dan Bongino. DiGenova, the president talking pardon with Manafort. A little premature for that?

JOE DIGENOVA, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, of course. And it's just the president is tweaking and trolling people and trying to get a rise out of people. That's what he does. It's part of his shtick.

But the thing to me that's fascinating is, all of a sudden, the entire investigation by Mueller's is focusing on people who are lying. That's what it's always been about. But now it's really about lying, with Stone and Corsi and Flynn and everybody. Why is that happening? The answer is very simple. The original purpose of the investigation was Russian collusion. That has failed miserably. There's no evidence of it. So what is he doing now?

He's charging people with lying so that he can say in his report I would have proved collusion but all these people lied and prevented me from doing it. This is the new narrative of Mueller. He's not of course mouthing it, but his actions prove conclusively that his new narrative is if these people hadn't lied to me, I would have been able to prove collusion. This is the new Russian collusion theme now. This is what he's going to do.  That's going to be what the report is going to be about.

INGRAHAM: But Dan Bongino, this happened on CNN today. This was Jeffrey Toobin about where this is all headed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: We are now in the realm of possible impeachable offenses, and that is much more of a political question than a legal question. However, that shouldn't distract us from the fact that this is egregiously inappropriate behavior on the part of the president. It is all but an encouragement to Paul Manafort to stop cooperating. Take your punishment. I will take care of you later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Dan?

DAN BONGINO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Toobin is an embarrassment. The fact that this guy is a legal analyst, he should get a refund from his law school. I'm not sure if he's aware of the separation of powers, but the presidential pardon is a Constitutional power, Laura. I'm not sure if Toobin is aware of that, if he learned that in law school. But the reason that was implemented was so the executive branch would have some check over what were perceived gross abuses of our system. The president can do that.

Having said that, Joe is right. Joe just nailed it, although I'm sure Richard will try to make the case otherwise. There is no predicate crime here, Laura. There is zero evidence of collusion, no less conspiracy to collude or any kind of a crime at all. And if Mueller was really doing his job, which he's not, he would be investigating the real Russian collusion which there is actual evidence of which is collusion between the Hillary team and Russians. There is real evidence of that, by the way, which we can document.

INGRAHAM: Richard, it came up tonight that they are upset about Manafort's Ukrainian business dealings, which I guess go back some years involving a lot of different people, including one Russian oligarch that is so mad that he is suing Manafort I think for $10 million that he thinks he got ripped off. But how did we get here? Where is all this thought of Russian collusion? We're talking about Russian meddling and it was all being coordinated, one would think, out of Trump headquarters, and now poor old Jerome Corsi. This is where it is?

RICHARD GOODSTEIN, FORMER CLINTON ADVISER: Can we talk about this McCarthyism charges for a second?

INGRAHAM: So you don't want to address --

GOODSTEIN: I will get back to it. Just one second.

INGRAHAM: OK.

GOODSTEIN: I don't think Donald Trump knows what McCarthyism is.  McCarthyism was when you're making charges without evidence. And all Mueller is doing is having evidence to back up charges. He wouldn't be getting all these convictions and pleas and indictments if he wasn't able to take his evidence to a grand jury or a petty jury. And I think he is talking about browbeating. That's what he seems to be complaining about.  And I don't remember either of you complaining when Ken Starr basically set up Monica Lewinsky, got her in a room, had her crying, wouldn't let her see a lawyer. Somehow I don't remember Starr's sympathizers complaining about that, what Donald Trump is complaining about now.

INGRAHAM: I think that is a fair point. And I have actually addressed that as someone who's had some time to think about this. And I think prosecutors exist to get convictions. There are some good prosecutors out there, but what I'm saying is let's step back a minute and see where this started, how it started, and whether we are seeing from some maybe well- intentioned people some really egregious abuses of prosecutorial authority.

GOODSTEIN: Here is the predicate that I would say there are two questions that Mueller needs to answer. The WikiLeaks stolen stuff that Donald Trump trumpeted 115 times of the campaign trail, WikiLeaks, Podesta emails dropped within an hour --

INGRAHAM: It's not a crime.

GOODSTEIN: It actually is, computer privacy.

INGRAHAM: President Trump talking about it, obviously --

GOODSTEIN: He is using ill-gotten gains. They dropped those emails within an hour after "Access Hollywood." Was there an American involvement or did the Russians do that on their own?

INGRAHAM: OK, so he's spinning a theory. We get it.

GOODSTEIN: I'm just saying, there are all these bots communicated these messages like Pizza-gate to all these swing voters, is that something where there was an --

INGRAHAM: We are two years into this. We are two years into this almost and they've got nothing except an old 72-year-old guy.

GOODSTEIN: They got all these indictments of all these Russians.

INGRAHAM: OK, they've got all these indictments of the Russians. That's not Donald Trump.

DIGENOVA: This is all about failure. This investigation is a complete failure. The purpose was to investigate a conspiracy between the Trump campaign or the president and the Russians. There is absolutely no evidence of that in any of the cases that he has brought. That is why he is now focusing on these side characters to accuse him of lying or perjury because his narrative is going to be I couldn't prove collusion because they wouldn't let me. This is where we are. This is the pathetic state of Mueller's handling of this. This is an embarrassment.

INGRAHAM: We've got 30 seconds. Can anyone be sanctioned in the Justice Department for how this has gone down, or in Mueller's team?

DIGENOVA: This requires a federal grand jury to investigate the conduct.

INGRAHAM: Where is our attorney general?

DIGENOVA: We need one right now.

GOODSTEIN: Let's see what the report says, please. We are speculating wildly about something we don't really know --

DIGENOVA: I know what it's going to say -- they wouldn't let me do my job.

INGRAHAM: All right, guys, I want another hour of this whole panel. It's so great.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: It is time for a palate cleanser. It's time for our "Seen and Unseen" segment where we explore the big cultural stories of the day.

Canceled sitcom, the first lady's Christmas trees, and a demonic children's clothing line from a famous singer, no doubt. Joining us now with all the details, Raymond Arroyo FOX News contributor, "New York Times" bestselling author of the "Will Wilder" series, beautiful covers. Raymond illustrated them himself.

RAYMOND ARROYO, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No, I didn't.

INGRAHAM: Didn't I approve any of those covers?

ARROYO: Yes, you helped.

INGRAHAM: OK, thank you. Raymond, let's begin with Candace Bergen's much touted "Murphy Brown" return. And?

ARROYO: And it's been canceled. I want to start. It was canceled because the ratings started really low. "Rosanne" premiered with 18 million people. This thing barely broke 6 million.

INGRAHAM: Lefty blue hairs are not what we want to see on TV.

ARROYO: What did we say when this premiered? Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARROYO: Even viewers called it strident, heavy-handed, not character driven at all.

INGRAHAM: Can I say something? Two words -- not funny.

ARROYO: Only 7.4 million tuned in to this premiere. Candace Bergen is using a very wooden Murphy Brown to communicate her politics, and I don't think the audience will accept this.

INGRAHAM: No. Come up with a new idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARROYO: Well, they haven't accepted it. It's been canceled, as we prophesied. The problem here, Laura, is it went so political. It wasn't about the characters. He was about the politics. This is a recent episode all about ICE and migrants. Watch.

INGRAHAM: Oh, no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We received a call from a neighbor here about a taco truck. Seems the truck belongs to a Carlos and Maria Gonzales, undocumented immigrants, outstanding removal order.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys cannot barge in here like this. I know that you are used to dealing with people who are scared and vulnerable, but if you don't get out of this truck, I will spatchcock you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARROYO: This is so tired, the timing. Charlie McCarthy has more on the ball today than she does.

INGRAHAM: God bless Candace Bergen. She is too shot up to get it --

ARROYO: She was very candid with Joy Behar the other day about what this whole series was really about. It was all political.

INGRAHAM: To get Trump.

ARROYO: Yes.

INGRAHAM: What did she say?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDACE BERGEN, ACTRESS: If the election had gone differently, we would not have brought it back.

JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": So it's because of Trump that it's back.  Is that what you're saying?

BERGEN: Yes, it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARROYO: Without Trump there wouldn't have been a show. Diane English, the creator, says we are not really canceled. We always wanted 13 episodes.  We may be back. Don't worry. "Designing Women" and "Cagney and Lacey" are coming back. I don't think they're going to make it either.

Let's move on to something really scary.

INGRAHAM: This new general neutral clothing line.

ARROYO: Yes.

INGRAHAM: Singer Celine Dion let them have those things.

(LAUGHTER)

INGRAHAM: It's pushing. No one gets that joke except us. But what's going on.

ARROYO: This line is called website Celine Nununu. I swear to God.

INGRAHAM: What?

ARROYO: Celine Nununu. And this is the website. It says to liberate children from the traditional roles of boy and girl. It's to amplify the discussion about a humanistic education which is gender free. She rolled out this new fashion line, and it's in conjunction with an Israeli fashion line, with this very bizarre ad. She walks into maternity ward, blows glitter around the room. All the boys are in blue, the girls are in pink.  Not after she does her magic. And then in one of the bassinets, this big voodoo doll appears. It's a very strange line. You see it on the right- hand side of your screen. See it?

INGRAHAM: Why is that enticing for a clothing line?

ARROYO: Let me show you the bizarre fashions, OK? These are gender- neutral, but they are very dark. There are skulls in the collection. Why would you put babies in skulls I don't know.

INGRAHAM: Planned Parenthood.

ARROYO: There's this all-seeing eye that's a big thing with --

INGRAHAM: Is that the Antifa child? What was that?

ARROYO: Bizarre. And this group, this Nununu, they have demonic designs with horns, hoodies for kids.

INGRAHAM: I thought it was Halloween costumes.

ARROYO: It's very dark. Look at this. This from their Instagram page.

INGRAHAM: That looks like something out of "The Wizard of Oz" with the Lollipop Guild, the Lullaby League came up.

ARROYO: Celine Dion and the founders of this brand explained themselves in a CNN interview. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are at Celine Nununu trying to shape the future of all human beings by saying find your own individuality.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We bring a new order as a concept into the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what, you don't know what they are going to become later, and you don't want for them to have a problem of growth. And say I am supposed to be like that, I am supposed to say that, I'm supposed to dress like this could because I am a guy, a boy. I'm supposed to do -- no. No. You don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARROYO: I think that's what people are going to say about this line.  Celine, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

INGRAHAM: This is going to go the way of "Murphy Brown." It's all going to be rejected by the customers. I don't even understand it.

ARROYO: Unless you are a member of the Addams Family or a satanic cult, why would you dress your infant in this wear?

INGRAHAM: But they admitted what their goals are.

ARROYO: A new order.

INGRAHAM: They want a new order. They want to effect the culture, change the way people --

ARROYO: Her heart may go on. Her sales are going to go the way of the Titanic.

INGRAHAM: Who are the helping hands organizations, Raymond, do you think.  This is a tease.

ARROYO: You're moving on.

INGRAHAM: I am moving on.

ARROYO: Wait a minute, I want to an insignia. I saw it has the crocodile.  I want the sinking ship from Titanic, because that's where this line is headed. Now you can go on to your next segment. Melania Trump and her response to the Christmas decoration-gate. We are doing that on Fox Nation, so watch for that.

INGRAHAM: Fox Nation. Have we already done that?

ARROYO: We're out of time.

INGRAHAM: We're out of time. Who are the helping hands? They're organizing and funding these migrant caravans that are wreaking havoc at our southern border. We have an "Ingraham Angle" continuing investigation.  We will bring you the latest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Time now for and "Ingraham Angle" investigation. Who are the people behind these caravans that many think are wreaking havoc at the southern border? There are certain groups, many inside our own country, who are the chief drivers of these efforts. At the tip of the sphere is an advocacy group known as Pueblo Sin Fronteras, and we have highlighted them many times on the show. Pretty much before anyone was talking about them, we were. And they are described on their home page as, quote, "a collective of friends in permanent solidarity with displaced peoples."  Sounds pretty nice.

And the folks in charge of the group, Roberto Corona, he's a Mexican born American and founder of Pueblo Sin Fronteras. Irineo Mujica is a dual Mexican-American citizen who was actually arrested in Mexico earlier in the last month after he obstructed Mexican police efforts. And finally, there is the American Alex Mensing. He's an American project coordinator with Pueblo in San Francisco.

It doesn't stop there. PSF is a sister group to the Chicago-based entity Centro Sin Fronteras. "Fronteras" is the word for borders in Spanish. And that's led by an activist, fairly left wing, known as Emma Lozano. She doubles as the pastor at the Lincoln United Methodist Church in Chicago.

Last night we told you how these church groups can often be used to blur the lines between religion and activism. Catholic church, a lot of people know I'm a Catholic, they get almost $100 million a year to resettle refugees and migrants across the United States. What we laid out is just a small part, though, tonight of the Fronteras web, and we will continue to expose in the days and weeks ahead those groups and individuals who were involved in this. And they helped organize the caravans starting in Honduras and Guatemala, and also American immigration lawyers at the same time are also involved.

And joining us now, we are delighted they are with us, their vice president Allen Orr joins us along with investigative reporter Hayden Ludwig, who recently took a deep dive into the activists behind the caravan efforts.  Gentlemen, thanks for being here tonight. Allen, let's start with you.  The argument from some, and I am one of them, is that this seems to go beyond charitable efforts to help those in need to actually organizing people in foreign countries in large groups to eventually overwhelm our southern border. Is that accurate?

ALLEN ORR, VICE PRESIDENT, AMERICAN IMMIGRATION LAWYERS ASSOCIATION: It really depends. For American immigration lawyers, we are not in foreign countries. What we are doing is addressing individuals, either women, children, men who have been detained in the United States. So we are not doing the outreach abroad.

INGRAHAM: There are some lawyers, American lawyers.

ORR: But hey are not part of our organization. That's not on behalf of our organization that are doing that. And those people who call themselves good Samaritans that are doing that what they feel to be God's work, don't necessarily --

INGRAHAM: A lot of them are doing the coaching, though. We've exposed this before. Lawyers from San Francisco, we try to get them on the show, they won't come on, who are literally down in these camps saying this is how the process goes. You have to show a credible fear. This is what credible fear looks like. It's basically coaching people.

ORR: Some of it is coaching, some of it is being a lawyer, because as a lawyer we advise people what they need to do to meet the criteria.

INGRAHAM: You can't advise them to lie.

ORR: Not to lie, but we can tell them what the criteria is for them to be able to get into the country.

INGRAHAM: Most of the people, though, are economic migrants. And 85, 90 percent of their claims are rejected, and they were under Obama and they are under Trump. So these are overwhelmingly economic migrants who want to be here, be with family members, friends, or work here, and/or all of those.

ORR: Right. And so the issue is if they really are economic migrants, they why not just process them, deny the cases, and send them back out. So that's really a U.S. border processing issue, not that of the migrant. So if the migrant walks in and says I'm here to work, then we should be able to say, OK, no, that's not one of the reasons for the grounds to stay here.  So as lawyers, we are saying open up the ports and process the individuals.  Don't send the military. Send judges and social workers.

INGRAHAM: Let's talk about where this is from the Mexican standpoint here.  Interesting polling that came out today, at least I saw it today, 55 percent support tougher measures in future caravans, these are Mexican, 52 percent support blocking them from entering the country without legal documentation, and that's "El Universal" which is a very, very big Mexican newspaper. I actually read part of this in Spanish. I am really trying to get my Spanish back. It's not quite there yet. But what about how this is playing in Mexico, on the Mexican side, because it seems like every reporter down there is telling tales of woe in Tijuana.

HAYDEN LUDWIG, ANALYST, CAPITAL RESEARCH CENTER: Mexico is paying the price, right? Ultimately, as Tucker Carlson has pointed out, it's piles of garbage that are being left over by this massive caravan of thousands of people moving up from Central America. They haven't crossed over into the United States yet. So it's Mexico that they are sitting in, and the Mexican people are paying the price for that. And they want these people to follow Mexican law. They have already shown a disdain for Mexican national sovereignty by violating their borders and going into Mexico.

INGRAHAM: Yesterday in "The Angle" I pointed section 1324-18-USC, which is basically a very serious criminal provision that can be violated by anyone who is knowingly aiding and abetting those to come here to game the system, violate our immigration laws. It would be serious, and serious repercussions if someone dies as a result of illegal efforts. There are laws on the books that exist that can be used to prosecute individuals who help conspired to violate immigration law. Is there anything that you have found in your investigative reporting that would indicate that there is rampant legal problems with what's being done on the so-called humanitarian side?

LUDWIG: I think in the United States, you have organizations, you pointed out two of them. There is a third one, La Familia Latina Unita, United Latin Family, that's right. And that organization, all three of them, they are pushing what a nonprofit can get away with. Emma Lozano, who runs Pueblo Centro and La Familia, for instance, has endorsed candidates for public office, J.B. Pritzker for Illinois governor just recently, using United Methodist Church letterhead. So these organizations in the United States have shown a massive disdain for what nonprofits should be engaging in, both religious and secular nonprofits.

INGRAHAM: Allen, a lot of these churches, Methodist Church, Lutheran Church, Catholic Church, they want pews. They want people and bodies in the pews. And her church, I believe the registered 1,600 DACA members -- 600, excuse me.

ORR: Helped them with their applications, absolutely.

INGRAHAM: So we're saying, is it a church, is it an activist group, community organizing? It's kind of a lot of things at once.

ORR: Absolutely.

INGRAHAM: What are the motivations here, and are there legal ramifications when some of this so-called activism is really organizing people in wide- ranging violations of U.S. immigration?

ORR: I will not say there are not people who don't violate the law, immigrants who violate the code and individuals who do. But that is not rampant overall. But I will tell you is that Mexico, while they are saying all these things about immigrants, are absorbing them. They're giving them jobs.

INGRAHAM: They are trying to give them asylum and a lot of them aren't taking it. Gentlemen, we'll continue this. Thank you so much. We will right back. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Oh, well, the show was so good, last segment so good that we don't have time for a last bite, which is very upsetting. But have no fear because Shannon Bream and the "Fox News @ Night" team take it from here.

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