Investigating Benghazi: Unanswered questions

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 16, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Cavity search took forever. Hello, everyone, I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and she Jet Skies on a seahorse, it's Dana Perino. This is "The Five."

Sorry, Hillary, it's back. The thing that makes no difference at all. Benghazi. As the Select Committee holds its first hearing tomorrow, we find that a former State Department official told lawmakers that Hill's pals removed documents before turning files over to investigator -- investigators. Here's Sharyl Attkisson on Greta, about that official.


SHARYL ATTKISSON, JOURNALIST: Ray Maxwell who is a former deputy assistant secretary, very well respected, told me that he witnessed an after hours session in the basement of the State Department, in an operations center which he was told by an office director that they were -- they were under orders to separate documents before they went to the Accountability Review Board, to separate out anything that could be embarrassing, as he put it, to the seventh floor or the front office -- seventh floor, referring to Secretary of State Clinton and her advisers.


GUTFELD: Nothing to see here, of course. But on cue, left-wing groups are already spitting out press release denials like cats coughing up fur balls. And if you're a lazy hack, that's your script. This must be the first time ever that a White House has proxies doing its PR. You got to hand it to these Benghazi deniers. If only the White House show this much speed that night in 2012.

So, let's return to "who pushed the video?" because it's that question that tells the whole story, Bob.

Here's the president who had advice for ISIL. If they had pinned notes to the victims instead of beheading them, we would reacted differently. So, the same man who thinks ISIL would listen to him is the same guy who said a film caused Benghazi -- meaning he's always wrong about evil.

It's the spectacle of the beheadings that galvanized evil and bailing on Benghazi helped get that ball rolling. When the bad act brazenly and the good blame others, both energize jihadists. And as our pliant media rolled up into a protective ball around Obama, ISIL saw the writing on that compound wall and they grinned. I mean, who thinks evil responds to appeasement? The guy who flies to Vegas or golfs when evil shows up.

ISIL must be laughing their heads off while planning to cut off yours.

Dana, you know what amazes me, is how quickly these activist groups like Media Matters magically appear. Here, they setup the emails, I got like two of them today to attack actual journalist doing their jobs.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: And as you said, right on queue. If this were a republican organization, they would be targeted be the IRS so quickly. The Media Matters gets taxes and status (ph). They really are a proxy at the Democratic National Committee, and also part of Hillary Clinton's cover-up committee. There's a concerted effort by the democrats to hinder an investigation, discredit a career civil servant...


PERINO: Before he even has the chance to testify. They want him to try to get in front of the story because their goal is not to get to the truth, it's to win a new cycle.

GUTFELD: Bob, you know, I know that you think this is a big story. But it seems like whenever there's a revelation, everybody says this is no big deal. But didn't this failure, in a way, fade (ph) away tough prices, because it gave ISIS an idea that we're not willing to deal with these things.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, first of all, I will break my silence to this just for a second. And say that, I think that -- I have no doubt that the crew civil servant saw what he saw, and heard what he heard. But let's remember the he heard it from somebody else, who then -- who's reported it. But leaving that aside -- and I don't think, by the way, -- (inaudible) that the republican, it would be somebody -- thing would be different. I'm not sure that's right. But it would -- what the difference here is, the communication on this was not very well coordinated, the information was late in coming, and I think to that extent, you can say that there's a connection -- the system broke down a little bit on ISIS the way it did on other story.

PERINO: And also -- but le just say, Maxwell what was there, he said that he walked in on weekend session on a Sunday afternoon. That's what he -- his reporting on first time account.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: But how can you say the information broke down? They had adequate -- and I would say pretty alarming warnings from the ambassador, Christopher Stevens' direct cables sent from Benghazi to Hillary Clinton, to the secretary of state, asking for increased security for the conflict. They saw the writing on the wall, what happened with to the -- the British embassy and the Red Cross, they had shut down their embassy for a fear of a terrorist attack. And, Bob, this was the conflict that's what attacked twice before September 11th. Why didn't they protect Americans, and that's the question that Hillary have not answered yet.

Why did she leave Americans to die, not just that day, but why didn't she protect the embassy in the months and weeks leading up to that. I mean, she also have to tell us her position on radical Islam. Because we're talking about the media, Candy Crowley for here which they're gonna do. They're gonna do their best to keep the lie alive for as long as they can. And I think that's where her negatives will go up. If she doesn't answer the question why she left Americans to die in our consulate and gave them, as you said, Greg, the heads up to have a pool party at our embassy in Libya, just a couple of weeks ago, because they know we're not really doing our best to secure it?

BECKEL: It's not a secretary of state that does get these things from all over the world. It's not her responsibility to handle every one of them. The second thing was, I feel terrible that, well, they haven't invested to the ambassador. But if you thought the thing was unstable, why take people there? Why?

PERINO: So, why didn't they close it?

BECKEL: They should have.



ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So, guys step back (ph) -- and again, this is what happens -- this stuff starts to come out, we investigate, we talk about it, the left calls us racist for talking about it or we're wrong or we're hoaxers or we're making stuff up. And then as time goes, more and more information comes out. President Obama was asked directly by Bill O'Reilly, is there any corruption in the IRS scandal. He said not a smidgeon. Well, you know what, he's play us (inaudible). It wasn't a smidgeon, a whole of -- corruption (ph), which he found out later. President Obama said Obamacare won't cost the American taxpayers a dime. He wasn't lying there either, because it's gonna end up costing a trillion dollars. So, the games they play to try and cover up all the scandals and all the lies that they're perpetrating are ridiculous. And, you know, the poor American public just goes, oh, really? Why is Fox doing that? I can't believe they're not over for Americans being killed, when they didn't have to die. They, honestly Andrea, you're right, they didn't have to die that day.

GUTFELD: I wanted to touch on the media stuff. And I talked to Bob earlier and he said -- he asked me, can we get a -- sound on tape of Krauthammer talking about this? And I saw it.


BECKEL: I have been waiting for this. Thank God we got him back finally. We've got some comment last year.

GUTFELD: It took a while -- actually Krauthammer and Hayes discussing the media coverage on Special Report.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The media aren't curious, nobody's asking why this is calling quicker, it's a sleeper story. But once you get people under oath, you're gonna get stuff coming in, this happened as Maxwell is saying, then this is really serious. This is a cover-up.

STEPHEN HAYES: This is a non-story to most people in the main stream media. If that actually happened, that's a huge story. I mean, that is the cover- up. That would be the beginning of a cover-up.


GUTFELD: I think the real scam here, and it's always been -- it's the media sweeping the failure in leadership and management to assure Obama election? Wasn't that what it's about? It was always about that debate and making sure he didn't get smeared by this.

PERINO: Yes. Number one was Obama's re-election. But number two, and simultaneously, it was Hillary's election. Interestingly the media doesn't care about who push the video lie, they don't care about answering these other questions that we have brought up. So, I don't understand why her people went forward, according to an eye witness, a career civil servant who lost his job to protect Hillary Clinton, because they were supposedly - - allegedly, and we'll hear the testimony about it soon this week, whitewashing the documents, white water washing the documents. And did you see a pattern here? Career civil servants have paid a price to protect Hillary Clinton's political future over and over again and the media doesn't care.

BECKEL: Who got fired?

PERINO: This guy, Maxwell, the eyewitness.

BECKEL: Did (inaudible) say in here he said he heard this from a guy who was...

PERINO: No. I'm reading it right here, that he walked into the weekend session on a Sunday afternoon after hearing about it. He walked into the room after he heard about it so he saw it for himself.

BOLLING: Go ahead.

BECKEL: I was gonna say that when people ask the executive branch of congress, ask the executive branch for documentation in a certain subject, they are gonna go through a lot of documents and some things are gonna be relevant (ph) and some things aren't. I mean -- and the idea that somehow...


PERINO: Hillary Clinton's personal adviser, political adviser, and the one who was making the calls that not, sitting in the room, do you think that that would be normal, Bob, to like going through thousands of documents? That is not normal, but that's what happened.

BECKEL: I said about this event that I thought this was --came at a bad time for them when they were running for re-election. And it did -- it was about his re-election. I don't think he had anything to do with it. But it was about his re-election. And so -- I mean, the way that the thing was played out.

TANTAROS: He had nothing to do with it. But isn't that the problem? I mean...

BECKEL: No, I mean the political advisors do that all the time on behalf of their candidate.

TANTAROS: But he was so incompetent to deal with the security issue of the embassy.

BECKEL: Who was incompetent?

TANTAROS: The president and the secretary of state.

BECKEL: President of the United States does not deal with security in embassy.

TANTAROS: Oh, OK. So, hands off?


TANTAROS: That is U.S. territory, by the way, the embassy and it had been attacked twice before, so we're to assume, that when you U.S. soil attacked overseas, the president doesn't get a heads up on that, of course he does.

PERINO: But we know that he did.

TANTAROS: Yes, he do. And we know that he made a phone call to Hillary Clinton and Leon Panetta, but no follow-up calls, which I think is a little odd. If you know that U.S. soil is being attacked, an American during jeopardy by radical Islamic jihadist, not out for a walk as Hillary Clinton said, don't you follow up to see how it ended, how it turned out? No, he did not do that. And, you know, it does make a difference, because if they're trying to scrub these documents, then it does make a difference, if it didn't, you'd leave the documents and you left the troops play out, but they haven't done that.

BECKEL: This is gonna cross a disturbance here as this table, I know. But let me make a point, there were over 20 people diplomats who died when George Bush was in office. I don't blame George Bush for not knowing one of those things, I don't think he did.

PERINO: Bob, you've really got to get off the conspiracy theory websites and get some facts.

BECKEL: Did they or did they know it (ph)?

PERINO: Because they were being attacked by terrorists...

BECKEL: No, no, no.

PERINO: ...ignore them? No. People die at embassies, yes. Do you find out why? Of course you do. Do we know why of this one? No we don't. Why, because Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were so consumed with their own politics, that even when the media doesn't care about it, they are determined to find some way to protect their political hide.

BOLLING: Bob, can I have one more thing.


BOLLNG: OK. If mistakes were made, maybe they have been made under other administration's watch as well. But the problem is the cover-ups afterwards, the scrubbing the document here, the lost email -- the lost hard drives with Lois Lerner. The...

GUTFELD: Lending a video with a cove-up.

BOLLING: Lending the video going out there. Making a video, blaming another video, going out there saying we heard about the AP scandal, the James Rosen scandal, we heard about it on TV, it's afterward, it's the cup. It's not so much the mistakes, although those are bad, it's the after math, it's the cover-up scandal, that's when it really becomes scandalous. You can't lean back and huff and puff and now say, well, they're pretty active at doing this, they're pretty active at sweeping the facts under the rug.

BECKEL: I'm not huffing and puffing, I was trying to get some air, I'm having hard time breathing. But the fact of the matter is, all these things you say are all scandals and they're all cover-ups. It's impossible to carry on that many cover up at one time to watch D.C. I don't buy it.

BOLLING: So, the IRS stuff wasn't a scandal, it's a cover? They're scrubbing documents. Bob, come on.

BECKEL: I think learner's got rid of her own hard drive, yeah, absolutely.

TANTAROS: But the media doesn't stay on the story, of course you can keep all these scandals going. I mean, my issue with the media is, they seem to veer in and out of consciousness on Benghazi. So, they'll spend a couple of weeks actually pursuing the story, you'll see good reporting from Jonathan Karl and others and then it just falls off the wayside. And journalist like Stephen Hayes and others are the one that stay on it and keep the...

PERINO: And you see a terrible analysis of people suggesting -- some people suggesting that this story today is only about the midterms. When they've told us for the last eight months or so that it doesn't matter in the midterms. So, then why do they worry about it so much? Let just hear the testimony.

BECKEL: ...Reporters out there, why in the world do you think they would not cover one -- and they all wanna...

GUTFELD: They love Obama.

BECKEL: Oh, they don't all love Obama, Greg.

GUTFELD: There's been like four Watergates in the last six years, and they don't cover it, they also don't cover it. And I said this before because Fox News covers it. And it's like, well, those guys do it then we're not gonna do it because, you know, Obama doesn't like Fox News. So, we don't wanna look like them, and we still wanna be able to go to the cocktail party.

BECKEL: So, you think...


PERINO: I'd rather be on that side.

GUTFELD: Yeah. But it's Fox News avoidance syndrome. It's like, we do it, they won't do it. And they still want to go to the upper west side cocktail parties and if you talk about Benghazi, they're not gonna let you in.

TANTAROS: But will they cover it when she starts to undermine him on Benghazi? One of them is gonna have to start undermining the other. Hillary is gonna have to start undermining the president or vice versa, are they gonna cover that story?

PERINO: I think it will be vice versa first.

TANTAROS: You think it will be the president under mining her? I don't know, those Clintons, I think they've already started.

GUTFELD: All right, next, what is life actually like under ISIS control? We have a rare, revealing tape from inside the region that we'll show you when we come back.


BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody. ISIS terror group, a group so braze, and even al Qaeda didn't wanna associate with them. They're well funded, they're very optimistic with high hopes if obtaining an Islamic State, a caliphate. Here's a rare look inside at life inside ISIS home base in Syria, brought to your by our friends at The Wall Street Journal.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ISIS seized control and that's when things changed.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this ISIS propaganda footage, a member tells a shop owner it's unacceptable to display women's clothes that don't conform to their strict ultra conservative dress codes, and this scene when ISIS member walks to a market place telling vendors to close their shops and go pray. The activists that we spoke to say ISIS imposes curfews and access to water and electricity is periodic. Some of the buildings they took over are painted black, this is safe to be an ISIS police station. The activists say this church was turned into an Islamic Center. And ISIS blew this shrine up because it was therefore Shia at Muslims and they are Sunnis.


BOLLING: Yeah. So, we're gonna bring it around quickly. Ange, wow, they're so hardcore, they're -- unbelievable that is actually -- people must be just afraid that they're falling in line with them.

TANTAROS: No question. And they're trying to convert, and if they don't convert, then they kill, which is how they interpret, that's their interpretation of the Koran. You know, it really does rattle you when you hear that there still violent al Qaeda doesn't want to be associated with them. I mean, they're that bad. I cannot imagine what it's like to be a woman living under those circumstances.

BOLLING: Let me ask you this, there are about -- I think the CIS that makes 31,500 ISIS fighters or so, in the region. The Iraqi -- there are about 250,000 Iraqi fighters, there are about 100,000, 150,000 Kurdish fighters. How the 30,000 people, men can hold of 253,000 fighters.

BECKEL: Well, let's remember that the Iraqi military did not get engage until very recently. And the Kurds were not given the weapons they need. You see this is really -- we should have done, but that's part of it. But the other thing is, I look at this, is they have moved through this territory, they are developing -- people may bow down that they're creating anti-ISIS people every place they go. Those store owners, you think those store owners are gonna say, OK, fine. They're not gonna stand up and say, you know, I'm not gonna close my store. But do you think that they're not gonna be left behind, what they're leaving behind here are people who just can't stand them?

BOLLING: I don't know.

PERINO: They're recruiting them far faster.

BOLLING: I heard something outrageous today, ISIS is taking something power plants within Syria and then selling the power back to the Syrian government. That's how much control they have in the region.

PERINO: It is curious how they could have so much financial power, which is one of the keys for goals for us, is to shut that down. And to Bob's point too about -- and, Andrea, when you're talking about families, when the storylines within this report is how they're making children watch the beheading videos, making them watch them over and over again and creating festivals for children to go and watch the video so that much do to a child for the future.

So, I think that there's a short-term immediate crisis and then there's the longer-term problem that's almost inconceivable right now, like how bad it's going to be in the future, when you have this many people damaged, lost everything, their dignity has been stripped from them. The only thing they have left is the hope that the western world is actually gonna help them. And that's incredible.

BOLLING: Are they hoping for that or they just hoping to stay out of trouble and stay alive?

GUTFELD: I mean, OK, these guys are committed not just to caliphate but they're committed to our destruction. That's why we need to be concerned about what our definition of victory is in the White House and will we allow our troops to achieve it, to use Obama's terms he understands in golf terms, we have got to give them all the clubs, not just the putter. And we're not adequately funded. We have to stop enough social programs and restart the military industrial complex because what good is head start, if you don't have a head? We need to gear up and destroy.

BOLLING: That was a good transition to this, because here's the dilemma, we have a Nobel peace prize winning president who's afraid to have a war declared on his watch and the generals know it. Here's the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, listen to the man in charge with defeating ISIS, try, and fail to provide cover for the president, if he just let the cat out of the White House's no boots on ground bag.


MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: My view at this point is that this coalition is the appropriate way forward. I believe that will prove true, but if it fails to be true and if there are threats to the United States, then I of course would go back to the president and make a recommendation that may include the use of U.S. military ground forces.


BOLLING: So, about that coalition, general?


BILL NELSON, FLORDIA SENATOR: Do you know any major Arab ally that embraces ISIL?

DEMPSEY: I know major Arab allies who fund them.


BOLLING: Bob, let me start with you there. Did you hear what the general just said? If the coalition doesn't hold firm, then we will have to do something else, we will have to have another strategy which may include, probably, likely, boots on the ground. And then the next question was, what about -- what the coalition -- well, not really much of a coalition, they're actually funding them.

BECKEL: Well, it's -- I think it's probably worthwhile for us to give this strategy the airpower, and coalition time to build and give it a shot. If it doesn't work, maybe he's right. Maybe just commit U.S. forces to it. But at this point in time, let's -- why do we have to rush in and worry about whether it's war or anti-terrorism, whatever you wanna call it. That's all systematic (ph). The question is, how do you kill these people. And the question that is give it a chance to see air power took that down an entire Serbian military, much bigger than these guys were, and much tougher in a lot of ways. Now, I think the idea of saying here that we can't do it this way, is not giving it a chance to work.

BOLLING: I'm not pushing back from that. Dana, Bob makes this point, let me see if this is what you say. We have an air force that can go into that, really, really puts some heat on ISIS. We have 300,000 or 350,000 boots on the ground, not less who we are (ph), in the area where if they were just motivated.

PERINO: I think General Dempsey was being just honest, and he was doing something that we are criticizing the White House for doing last week. Last week were saying that is was wrong for the president to take options off the table. Well, Dempsey was saying, he's leaving his options open and saying if it doesn't work, then of course we're going to have to have another strategy, we're not going to give up, we're gonna have to do something. And I also think that are going to need -- they're going to have to have a loose definition of what boots on the ground means.

And I think that that coming -- that should come sooner or later. But Bob, I do think that it matters what the White House is saying, and what it's asking one Americans who are there now, who are doing the bombing, it matters to them, if they're going to risk their lives to go. And for this effort, they should do that and also for our allies. It matter what we call it, because as you know, Bob, in that region, it matters, what are you saying? What do you mean? You have to have total clarity. We don't even have clarity here.

GUTFELD: The best part of that Armed Services Committee meeting was when Senator Bill Nelson asked General Dempsey if he was aware of reports of covert training. And the general said, we don't really comment in public on covert training. It is not television. Why not just hand the keys over to ISIS, with a senator asking if you're doing any covert training. It's called covert.

PERINO: And the other thing is, he knows if he goes to his briefing, he knows they're doing covert.

GUTFELD: That's a great question.

BOLLOING: We have a huge dance to do here. President Obama was half a billion dollars to train moderate rebels. Ange, can you help me out with that term, what the hell is a moderate rebel?

TANTAROS: Yeah -- well, our experience with moderate in past if you look at Libya and Egypt, it never really emerges as a viable plan. And so, I don't really see that happening in Syria. If I were in congress, I would not vote for that 500 million to arm the rebels. I actually think President Obama was right a couple of weeks ago, when he was hesitant not to arm the rebels. I just -- you know, we partners with Stalin to defeat the Nazis, and I think on this when we -- and it's probably too late with Assad, but we have to hold our nose on Assad because if Assad falls, ISIS will likely take over. And I'm just not inclined, Eric, to send millions of dollars to waste down a Syrian rat hole on weapons that will likely end up in the hands of ISIS.

BECKEL: So, I'll just say the mistake they made when they had this coalition meeting in Paris, they did not invite the Syrians, they did not invite the Iranians, which I think was a mistake. I know -- you're right, you have to hold your nose. But sometimes you got to fight until -- with the nastiest people in the world.

TANTAROS: But if you invite the Iranians you wouldn't get the Saudis, that's why they didn't. That's why John Perry thinks...

BOLLING: Such a complex puzzle. I mean, look who gone on Syria, Bashar al- Assad, ISIS, and al Qaeda fight Bashar al-Assad. So, what do you do? Do you arm the anti-Assad, which could end up helping wither ISIS, or al-Qaeda...

TANTAROS: Well, Bashar Assad -- he's a dictator, but he's not a direct threat to the United States of America. And I don't like to pick a side here, but we have to see what's in the best interest of the United States America. He is fighting ISIS.

BOLLING: All right. We got to go. We're way overtime. Coming up on The Five, how serious is the Ebola threat? President Obama is pledging to send 3,000 U.S. military personnel to the inflected region and is committing a billion dollars to fight. You should you be concerned, or should you be concerned, we'll discuss that when we come back.


TANTAROS: Today, President Obama announced America's plans to lead the charge in the fight against Ebola.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In West Africa, Ebola is now an epidemic of the likes that we have not seen before. And if the outbreak is not stopped now, we could be looking at hundreds of thousands of people infected. So this is an epidemic that is not just a threat to regional security; it's a potential threat to global security, if these countries break down.

The world has a responsibility to act. To step up and to do more, the United States of America intends to do more.


TANTAROS: But is stopping Ebola more important than combatting terrorism? Congressional sources briefed on the president's program say countering it will replace fighting violence extremism as Africon's No. 1 priority. How can that be, Bob?

BECKEL: I just -- I think that even that statement by those people on the Hill is so...

TANTAROS: No, Africon said that.

BECKEL: Well, it's just disgraceful to me. Look, he -- just as George Bush went in and did what he did with AIDS in Africa, when the Clinton administration did not do enough, I think this is exactly the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with ISIS. It has everything to do with combatting disease that can eventually, as he said, break countries right now. It's exactly the right thing to do.

And let's not have a situation like we had where the Clinton administration did not act, and the Bush administration did finally. We don't have the same thing here.

TANTAROS: Eric, I don't think that this should overpower any fight against terrorism. I read through what the president's going to do. I actually agree with Bob, I can't really criticize any of this. I wish that we did it a couple of months ago. We were a little slow to react, not surprising, but should we seal these countries off? Is it time?

BOLLING: Ands, this just in as President Obama announced his plan to send 3,000 troops to Africa to fight Ebola, and in related news, he plans to send 1,000 hypodermic needles to Iraq to fight ISIS. That's not that funny, but when you think about 3,000 -- get it?

GUTFELD: No, I didn't get it.

BOLLING: He sent the wrong (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

PERINO: Oh, now I get it.

BOLLING: He's sending 3,000 troops to Africa. He's got 1,600 troops fighting ISIS, right? But look at the numbers. He's looking for $1 billion to fight Ebola in Africa, and he asked for $500 million to fight ISIS.

So it's double on both. They're doubly concerned by the number of troops on the ground -- troops on the ground, not boots -- and the amount of money they're asking for.

BECKEL: How can you compare the two of those?

BOLLING: Bob, you really can't. The point is...

BECKEL: You're looking at some way to take a shot about ISIS. I mean...

BOLLING: Here's what I'd like him to do. I'd like him to step up and say, "We're doing everything we can to eradicate ISIS. Yes, Ebola is going to be a problem. It's going to be -- it could be a pandemic, and we're going to do everything we can.

But let's focus on the most pressing thing to the United States, in my opinion. The most dangerous thing to the United States right now is terrorism.

BECKEL: You can't do two things at one time?

BOLLING: Yes, you can.

TANTAROS: It is, and it's dismaying that one seems to be more -- more better funded or better funded, Dana, than the other.

But I want to ask you, could it spread here? There's about 200,000 Africans from countries hosting the deadly Ebola virus who hold temporary visas to the United States. But the president was asked about it. and here is his response.


OBAMA: I want the American people to know that our experts here at the CDC and across our government agree that the chances of an Ebola outbreak here in the United States are extremely low. We've been taking the necessary precautions, including working with countries in West Africa to increase screening at airports, so that someone with the virus doesn't get on the plane for the United States.


TANTAROS: Has he taken adequate precautions?

PERINO: Well, I think that the president basically took the summer off. OK? And then a lot of these things happened. ISIS spread. The global pandemic spread. Across the board diplomats and World Health Organization officials say that the United States is doing way too little. Hopefully, it is not too late.

The military can do a lot. They do what it does best: move people, get people what they need to be. And I think that, hopefully, we will not see an outbreak here, but one of the ways we do it is to prevent instability there.

TANTAROS: This is one of these things where you look at the U.N. and you think, instead of lashing out at Israel all the time, this is what the U.N. should be doing so we can worry about terrorism.

GUTFELD: And the other thing, too, is this is what America does great all the time. We're like masters at saving people's lives, and no one ever -- no one ever talks about it. We're always evil America.

These are things that President Obama forgets about at times when he talks about, you know, the non-exceptional nature of America. I do think we can do both. I think it's possible to do both.

The thing about the spreading thing is you've got to understand, in Africa, they have a terrible healthcare delivery system. The customs and the superstitions are just making it worse.

So once we -- once we get in there and contain it, it's going to be fine. You've just got to get in there and contain it. And if somebody came here, we would quarantine it immediately. That's what we did at Emory with that doctor. So there's a difference there. We quarantine. They can't quarantine over there right now, because they're an urban setting.

BECKEL: And you said it doesn't go airborne. Right? You can't.

GUTFELD: Almost no. They have one study with a pig.

BECKEL: That's it?


BECKEL: So it's not -- not something worry about somebody's going to sneeze in a movie theater and everybody's...

TANTAROS: Some of the doctors were concerned that the prevention kits we're sending actually could exacerbate it, which is...

GUTFELD: Well, there's a superstition in Africa that even the doctors are spreading it. And there people breaking people out of hospitals because they think it's so dangerous. And so we've got to keep the panic down and contain it and hope our troops, you know...

BECKEL: Wasn't it true that South Africans tried to stop people from -- AIDS -- didn't they, a lot of people who travel, these truckers all through Africa and get -- and deliver AIDS around, because they thought there was something going on? I'm sorry.

TANTAROS: Bob, we've got to go.

When we come back, we'll tell you about the most expensive war in American history. It's costing taxpayers $22 trillion to date. Can you guess what it is? We'll tell you next on "The Five."


PERINO: Fifty years ago President Lyndon B. Johnson said this.


LYNDON B. JOHNSON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And this administration today here and now declares unconditional war on poverty in America.


PERINO: So what has it cost? A new report today shows taxpayers have spent $22 trillion fighting it. That's three times more than we've spent on all military wars since the American Revolution.

And what about the results? Today's Census Bureau report says the poverty rate is 14.5 percent, which is higher than the 13.3 rate in 1967 once the programs were underway and implemented.

Greg, let me go to you first. You have been talking about this for a while.

GUTFELD: Yes, I have, since the early '30s, Dana.

The war -- this war against poverty was plotted to continue indefinitely. So the census counts a family as poor but excludes the government spending that they get, the programs they get, from that actual income.

So what happens is, it guarantees their programs will grow while poverty is unchanged, because you're not counting the money they're getting. So it's not a war on poverty, it's actually a zombie that you can't kill. And it goes and nothing changes, and the poverty rate remains the same as you keep throwing money at it. That tells you something. Stop throwing money at it. This is crazy.

PERINO: What would you do, Eric?

BOLLING: It gets even more insidious. They track the poverty level. They come up with their numbers as this is poverty. And if anyone falls below that poverty line, they continue to give them stuff.


BOLLING: And then, they keep lowering that bar. So as the economy gets bigger and better, the bar goes down. That's why when we started, there were about somewhere around 20 million people on means tested poverty program, and now there's 45 million people that fall under the poverty level. As you point out, $22 trillion being spent. You've got to raise the bar again.

And President Obama did something that Bill Clinton didn't do. Bill Clinton put work rules in, you have to at least pretend you're looking for work or try, to get some of these means-tested programs. He put that in, and President Obama was the first president to pull that out. So it's literally more financially beneficial for you to stay on welfare programs than to go out and get a job for a good percentage of the population.

PERINO: Let's take it down into politics. Bob, you've said before that Democrats have put forward polities that haven't necessarily worked out.


PERINO: What is the big Democrat idea now to combat this?

BECKEL: I mean, there's a lot of them all over the place.

By the way, I will say this: the Census Bureau did increase the level of the family of four that would be considered as poverty. So that's part of this.

But look, we've came [SIC] up with programs that, in fact, exacerbated poverty in this sense. We gave people housing. We gave people welfare. We gave children food. We did all of the things that are the right things to do, we thought at the time.

The problem is that what we did was, as I've said before, we've bred two generations of dependent people who have stayed in poverty and have had larger numbers of children. And so, in a perverse way, it kind of worked in the opposite of the way it should.

I think the way to do this is as Eric pointed out. I think Clinton had the right idea: you need to start putting some restrictions on what you can do and what you can get.

PERINO: What do you think, Andrea?

TANTAROS: I think it's sad that no one's really advocating to make life better for the impoverished. Because as Eric points out, they're keeping them in poverty, and nobody's going out and taking risks or getting jobs, because they don't want to lose their subsidies.

But you know what, Dana? It's become too profitable, and it's become too big of an industry. Besides being politically seductive for politicians, think about what a big business it is, for health care providers who get all that Medicaid money, for the corner deli that's getting the Food Stamp money. I mean, people are profiting off of the war on poverty. So it's become such a big industry that no one wants to get rid of it when you look at healthcare and housing resources. So that's the sad thing. I just think it's become too big, the zombie, as Greg mentioned, to eradicate.

PERINO: All right. I like that.

Coming up, ever wonder how much you should tip the barista, the garbage man, a hair dresser? We've got the answers to all of them, next.


BECKEL: Americans are generous people. We tip a lot. A new guide lays out a list of all the people you're supposed to tip and how much. Some of them may surprise you. A barista should get a buck for every coffee drink. A hotel housekeeper should get two to three dollars for every room they clean. And give your garbage collectors $20 a year, which I don't know where mine are. But don't worry about when you go to pick up takeout at a restaurant. They're evidently not supposed to get anything.

Now Eric, you're one of the biggest tippers I know. Who on that list would you say you don't tip?

BOLLING: I tip them all. Especially if you go to any place regularly, you better tip them. You just -- you want everything to be cool. Look, I love tipping people. It's one of the greatest things. When you give someone a nice tip, they appreciate it.

PERINO: You tip!

BOLLING: For service, Dana.


BOLLING: I would tip someone on takeout, especially if you're going to go back to that restaurant.

TANTAROS: I agree.

BECKEL: Well, you said that you would do that, right?

TANTAROS: I do do that. If they organize the order, even if I'm going in to pick it up, I give them a tip.

BECKEL: Really?


BECKEL: OK, now Dana, you're the second biggest tipper. I don't know about Andrea. She probably is, too, because she did that work.

TANTAROS: I'm a big tipper.

BECKEL: You're a big tipper. I know that for a fact.

PERINO: I am, but the one thing I wasn't sure about is on -- in a hotel room. So like if you arrive at 10 p.m., and you leave the next morning and you only were there that night, I don't necessarily leave money on the desk for somebody there. But you do?


PERINO: Maybe I should start.

GUTFELD: Just leave an 8-ball.

PERINO: An actual 8-ball, what are they going to do with it?

GUTFELD: Yes, from pool.

PERINO: Roll it down the hallway?

GUTFELD: I leave -- I leave tips to everybody, but not in money. I usually have little daily affirmation cards.

PERINO: I love those.

GUTFELD: Keep your chin up. Count to 10 when you're angry. But with the maids in hotels, I tip $500, mainly because of all the blood.

BECKEL: That's good.

TANTAROS: You left me a tip in my folder today.

BECKEL: Let me tell you just one thing.

TANTAROS: Don't eat yellow snow.

BECKEL: Every time I ever tip a maid -- I'm a pretty good tipper, too, but the only time I ever tip a maid is when I smoke in the room, and that's a $250 fine. So I leave a $20 tip for the maid, saying, by the way, somebody was smoking in this room before I got there.

PERINO: So you lie.

BECKEL: Well, sure.

TANTAROS: Do you ever get nailed for the fee? That's $250 if you smoke in the room?

BECKEL: Oh, yes, all the time.

TANTAROS: Why do you smoke in the room?

BECKEL: Because where else are you going to smoke?

TANTAROS: Outside, like you do every day before the show?

BECKEL: But you're on the 37th floor.

TANTAROS: Oh, come on, Bob.

BECKEL: And you've got a real good movie on. You don't want to move, miss that.

TANTAROS: A movie? I think you're talking about maybe having company.

BOLLING: You know what's a skill? Is actually tipping a maitre d'. I mean, because you can get a little nervous sometimes. You don't want anyone to see it. You have to learn how to do it. Guys, step up. They'll appreciate you every single time.

TANTAROS: And don't you think you need a Benjamin? Like don't try and duke them a $10. You've got to give them, like, a big...

BOLLING: Whatever it is.

PERINO: They have maitre d's.

BOLLING: Make up your own level.

TANTAROS: You get a faster table if you, like, grease them.

BECKEL: You know what? Eric got me set up to go out on a date, and I did that. They didn't have a table set up for me, so Eric, I called Eric. Eric said, "I'm coming, don't worry." He goes there, and he gets the manager out. They disappear in the back room. The guy comes back out and says, "Your table is ready any time you want it, Mr. Beckel."


BECKEL: I think that's right. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing," and let's go to Dana first, shall we?

PERINO: We shall.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: One thing that our viewers might not know is that Bob Beckel and I actually share a taste in books. We have very good taste in books, I will say.

And I want to recommend something. You've probably seen Father Jonathan Morris. He's been on air a lot. This is his new book. It is called "The Way of Serenity." We had a chance to read this a couple of months ago when he gave us a copy. It's about the "Serenity Prayer," and I thought of it as, like, having a personal counseling session with one of the best Catholics that I know. He actually -- he almost made me even want to be a Catholic, even though I grew up Lutheran.

GUTFELD: Traitor.

PERINO: Anyway, I loved the book, the Serenity Prayer. I highly recommend it. And Bob has one that we like, as well.

PERINO: By the way, the Serenity Prayer, he's excellent. And the way he caught the Serenity Prayer is something we do in AA all the time.

All right. I've got another book, too. This is by Douglas Brunt. It's called "Means." It's about a presidential campaign, and Douglas is the husband of Megyn Kelly. She did not ask us to do this. I read this book. In fact, I have a blurb on the jacket with -- about presidential politics. It is the best book capturing what it's like on the trail, on the presidential campaign. I urge you to read this. It's very, very good.

TANTAROS: I agree.

BOLLING: Andrea.

TANTAROS: Bob's book club.

All right. So it's the 200th anniversary of "The Star-Spangled Banner." So in true Jimmy Kimmel fashion, he decided to send one of his correspondents out on the street to see if people really know the lyrics. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Oh, say can you see, by the dark early live...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): ... whose broad stripes and something stars...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Oh, say can you see that flag still waves?




BOLLING: OK, staying on the music theme, so Rihanna was supposed to open for the CBS "Thursday Night football" last week, but with all that's going on with domestic violence, CBS decided to pull that. Here's what they were going to play. Her new song with Jay-Z, "Run This Town." But CBS pulled it because of Chris Brown, the domestic abuse stuff.

Well, Rihanna didn't like that very much. She tweeted today -- can we pull up the full screen? She tweeted, "CBS, you pulled my song last week. Now you want to slide it back in this Thursday? No, 'F' you. You're all sad for penalizing me for this." And then she tweeted, "The audacity."

So CBS obliged and said, "We'll be going in a difference direction with some elements of Thursday night's football opening." So they're going to split their ways.

PERINO: I have a recommendation for them.

GUTFELD: Dierks Bentley.

PERINO: Dierks Bentley would be great. That would be a great performer.

GUTFELD: You should bring out your dog.

All right. You know what it's time for?


GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner.


GUTFELD: You know why? Because I love sports, Bob. I can't get enough of it.

There was a game Saturday between the Arizona Chandeliers and the Miami Footstools. Watch this guy over here. It's a play going on and something happens. He gets up. What does he do? Oh, there he goes. What happened?

So I did a little investigating. Let's show it again. What happens is he gets trapped in this little round circle. And there's no oxygen in that little round circle. So he gets dizzy and he falls down.

And I think we should see it one more time. It's very strange. So if you ever see a round circle floating above you, get out of it. Look what happens: "I can't breathe. Ugh." Anyway...

BOLLING: It was amazing.

GUTFELD It was a mazing. I think he's fine.

BECKEL: You should really be on NFL, one of the NFL shows.

GUTFELD: You know, I go to a lot of games.


GUTFELD: Anyway, Footstools.

Set your DVDs, never miss an episode. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. "Special Report" next -- next.

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