Inmates escape from NY prison in 'Shawshank-style' break

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 8, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello everyone. I'm Eric Bolling and
this is the Fox News Alert. At this moment, the nationwide manhunt
continues for two convicted murderers who escaped from a maximum-security
prison in the upstate New York town of Dannemora. Multiple police groups
are going door to door at this hour, searching for the two violent killers.
Here's New York State Police Major Charles Guess.


MAJOR CHARLES GUESS, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: We had a rapid response. We're
leaving no stone unturned. We have a high presence of both ground
personnel, investigators and a variety of specialized assets. These are
very dangerous individuals. The state police ask to the public, take no
chances. Make no efforts to apprehend them and report any suspicious
activity. If you see something, say something.


BOLLING: And Governor Andrew Cuomo, who took the unusual step of offering a
$100,000 reward for these two killers, described the complex escape,
earlier today.


ANDREW CUOMO, NEW YORK GOVERNOR: This was a really elaborate plot. If it
was in a movie script, you would have said it was overdone. It took a
number of days, there's no doubt. And it took equipment that they should
not have had. And then that generates the question, how did they get the
equipment? Did they get it from a private contractor? Was there a civilian
employee who was cooperating? And that's what we're looking at.


BOLLING: All right, we have a lot to get to. We have bunch of other
stories, we gonna get to. But K.G., first on this one, Governor Cuomo
points out very elaborate escape scheme, likely not have that hatched

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Of course not. So there is
definitely a thought, premeditation and some planning in the execution. You
know, where did they get the tools that they needed to be able to make this
escape? Who's complicit, who didn't do their job properly. You don't escape
from a security position -- prison like this, without somebody on the
inside helping you along the way, which is a huge problem.

MELISSA FRANCIS, GUEST CO-HOST: At the same time, I mean it
happens more often than you would think. When doing research on this, you
saw 2,000 people escaped among prisoners, sentenced in more than one year,
this was 2013. 22 were in New York, 2,500 escaped in 2012. So we're -- I
mean, these guys are obviously very high profiled so -- because they are so
incredibly dangerous, but there are more prison breaks than I think people
out there know.

GUILFOYLE: Depending on the level of security. Whether it's a maximum-
security prison, whether it's something that a jail facilities --

FRANCIS: Definitely.


FRANCIS: Definitely.

BOLLING: And these guys had the tunnel. They broke through with some high
level equipment. They broke through, they tunneled their way through and
then somehow we got a locked manhole cover open and out. Tom?

TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: I don't know if it's exactly like the Clint
Eastwood movie, but it looks a lot like this.


SHILLUE: You know, they cut a hole through their cell and they claim
(inaudible) that classic -- they put the clothes in the bed. Why does that
still work? Clothes in the bed, but they crawled out and -- you got to be
careful not to root for these guys because every guy -- I think Eric,
you'll agree with me.

BOLLING: No, no. I can't --

FRANCIS: Don't Eric.

SHILLUE: No, look --

BOLLING: Do you understand that the heinous nature of the crime --

SHILLUE: They are terrible guy, that's what I'm saying. But every guy's
fantasy is to be arrested for a crime he didn't commit and then escape from
prison. Isn't that right?


JULIE ROGINSKY, GUEST CO-HOST: This is a fantasy? This is of all the
fantasy --

SHILLUE: Two escaped.

ROGINSKY: That their all your fantasy?

SHILLUE: Guys were all in escape movie, so you have to --


BOLLING: That part I will agree -- that part I will agree with you, Tom.

ROGINSKY: It's gonna work on your fantasy (inaudible).



BOLLING: You may really despise me for that question.


BOLLING: But now there are two --

ROGINSKY: It's Obama's fault.

BOLLING: Not Obama's fault. However --

GUILFOYLE: Not today.

BOLLING: But, there are -- New York is of the most rigid gun laws in the
country. There are a lot of people in the area right now wishing they had
easier access to guns, to protect themselves with two -- two (inaudible),
to violent criminals on the run.

ROGINSKY: If you got up to that part in New York State that I have,
everybody there has got a gun. Everybody is packing up there. That is not
New York City that is New York upstate -- New York and they're all packing.
Listen, these guys are -- this is like in cold blood. I mean, this is what
came to my mind when I heard about this guy. I mean, this guy, this guy
Matt, dismembered somebody. He was -- they are insane and what's
frightening is that the governor said and nobody knows they could be


ROGINSKY: Anywhere, and that's part was terrifying.

BOLLING: Let's move -- let's move on to this for another breaking story
involving law enforcement. We go to McKinney, Texas where cops were called
in to break up some (inaudible) behavior at suburban (ph) pool party. The
reports of girls fighting when the cops arrived, we understand, they
ordered the crowd to disperse. When they refused, this happened.








mama, oh God!



BOLLING: OK. Now listen to that girl who has thrown to the grass.

BECTON: He had me on the ground. Had my face in the grass and had all his
weight on my back and like, I was telling the other officer like, I
couldn't breathe, can you please get off of me? And then, he got off of me,
that's when he put me in handcuffs and another officer asked if I was OK
and I said no. And we're getting fired isn't enough because this could
happen to anybody.

BOLLING: But before you judge this officer, listen to this eyewitness who
refused to be shown on camera out of fear for her safety.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He grabbed her arm to try and handcuff her and she was
-- she started resisting immediately and she should have just stopped at
that point, like anybody and sat down and put her hands behind her back and
he said lie on the floor and she wouldn't. They were just doing the right
thing when these kids were fleeing and using profanity and threatening
security guards.


BOLLING: I would do it again. Bring around K.G., you see one thing. You see
that one side of the story on the video, and then maybe hear a little bit
more information as time goes on.


BOLLING: Kind of softens the tone of it.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, I mean, it's a pretty horrifying picture when you
see it. She's in a bikini, it's the young girl, she (inaudible) out. So
then you have to look at the full situation and do the investigation, talk
to other eyewitnesses because you're seeing a portion of the tape there
versus the whole -- you know, incident in its entirety. You know, that's
what we would do. You know, as a prosecutor, it may look one way on this
clip, but what else happened? What preceded the incident?

BOLLING: You got now --

GUILFOYLE: Now I don't have all the answers for that.

BOLLING: All morning long, I was here -- this happened yesterday -- Sunday
afternoon. All morning long I heard -- quite a few pundits crying race in
this. Now, I want to push back on the race issue being (inaudible) this cop
came, he saw a bunch of kids and he may have acted properly or improperly,
whatever. But I don't think race had anything to do with it, do you?

ROGINSKY: I have no idea because all we saw was a couple seconds of the
clip and obviously, somebody else's opinion as to what happened. Kimberly
is absolutely right. Who knows? This is why you investigate. I don't -
doesn't look like it was racially motivated? But who knows, none of us can
judge from the (inaudible) clip.

BOLLING: Right. So the (inaudible) -- so the pundits who are calling race
are --

ROGINSKY: Very premature.

BOLLING: Premature.

ROGINSKY: Very premature.

FRANCIS: There are a lot of other factors out there. I mean, this was a
party reportedly, people were going on Twitter to say more and more people
come by. You know, there is video out there on other networks and on the
internet, of all the things that were happening in the lead up to this
moment. I mean, you have to remember, this looks terrible. It was one
snapshot in time and many things were happening before and after. That I
mean, there were reports the officers were telling people to lay down and
as soon as they turned they were jumping up and running away. It seems like
it was a very out of control situation, and when you take one moment in
time without everything that came before it --

SHILLUE: Even --

FRANCIS: It's difficult to judge.

SHILLUE: But even that, I -- I mean, I saw this on -- the online. Shocking
video, it didn't shock me at all. I'm looking at the video and thinking,
OK, the cops are breaking up a party. These guys are great.

BOLLING: But hey, hey --

FRANCIS: No, no, no. She's a young girl in a bathing suit.

BOLLING: Hang on this.

FRANCIS: I disagree with you --

BOLLING: Can I also throw one more thing in here? If you watch this tape
for another couple of seconds --

GUILFOYLE: You're really --

BOLLING: Hold on.

GUILFOYLE: Something today.

BOLLING: That cop eventually, two kids or three kids came up to him and
they ran. Two other cops joined this cop and then this guy pull as weapon.
Now I'm one of the biggest, if not the biggest defenders of law enforcement
in -- I don't know -- in the building, anywhere. I just cannot for the life
of me figure out why that guy drew a weapon at anybody.

SHILLUE: I can figure. Look at the video again. He's got a girl, he's
trying to put handcuffs on her and the guy runs at him. This guy is being
very obnoxious and he -- you don't run at the cop when he was trying to put
cuffs on someone, and that was that guy did. He was -- he was intimidating
the cop. You can't do that.

BOLLING: K.G, you want -- you want to weigh in on this?

GUILFOYLE: All right. This is like a mess. It's got all these like bad
elements, especially what's been going on now and (inaudible) against
police officers. It's got a bizarre girls gone wild component with the
bikini situation, it's like kids out of control, people disrespecting law
enforcement. Nobody is listening. Nobody is showing respect. You can get
yourself out of this trouble if you just comply, go by the rules. Maybe
they're wrong.


GUILFOYLE: But handle it in the right way. You know, injure yourself.

BOLLING: Right. Did you know that --

GUILFOYLE: I don't want kids to get hurt, people to get hurt.

BOLLING: It escalates when people --


BOLLING: When people don't comply, things -- bad things will happen

GUILFOYLE: But listen.

BOLLING: Let me get -- we got to move on to this one, a lot more coming.
While the McKinney, Texas story was unfolding, another confrontation with
law enforcement was about to erupt. New Jersey state police were called in
to bring order to the annual Hot 97 Summer Jam. A sold-out concert,
featuring hip hop stars Chris Brown and Kendrick Lamar, after an alleged
riot situation was in progress.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up! Back up!


BOLLING: OK, Julie. What is your thought? You're from New Jersey --

ROGINSKY: Yeah, I mean I've been in my -- been in my summer jam (ph) like -


ROGINSKY: Seen 27 or so Bruce Springsteen concerts there and I got to tell
you, I've never ever seen anything like --

FRANCIS: Wow, stalker.

ROGINSKY: Yeah, a little bit of a stalker. I've never, ever, ever seen
anything like this. And in fact, you would never see that kind of police
presence outsides these shows unless, you actually have a really big riot
situation going on.


RROGINSKY: State -- the New York State police, does not bring out riot gear
for concerts. They just don't.

BOLLING: And they were called in --


BOLLING: To kind of handle, to lock down what was apparently --


BOLLING: A bunch of people jumping over the gates, trying to get in the
concert. Which was apparently was at -- at near capacity already.

SHILLUE: I think all this -- any concert is too much for me. I can't stand
these crowds. I would never go to see any -- I mean, I'm going to see, you
know --

ROGINSKY: You're too busy fantasizing breaking out of prison.


ROGINSKY: You can't go to any concerts.

SHILLUE: Eric, back up on that. Men do fantasize.

FRANCIS: Eric, actually --

ROGINSKY: No, he didn't.

FRANCIS: No he didn't.

SHILLUE: He did. He admitted it's a fantasy of men.

FRANCIS: I think he was trying to help you.

BOLLING: That, that part.


SHILLUE: Exactly. And I would say, I would say, these are bad guys. We have
to be careful. You have to remember that.

BOLLING: I'm always --

FRANCIS: Back to the concert. I mean, I don't -- what is going on? I mean,
I'm with you. I've been to many concerts at this stadium. I've never seen
anything like this. And it seems like all of a sudden we're in a situation
where there, there are things getting out of control all over the country.
I don't know if you can attribute it to an overall state or disregard for
police or - you know, a general discontent. I don't know. But this is a
very unusual occurrence at a place that we all go to all the time and have
never seen anything like this.

BOLLING: K.G., there was someone interviewed on the other network and he
was one of the concertgoers and he said it's because it was a hip hop
concert and the vast majority of people were African-American that the cops
treated them that way.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, gosh. It's too bad isn't it?


GUILFOYLE: That that is just like the automatic, you know, five cents
response. It like (inaudible).

BOLLING: But did you feel the sense in America? That the tensions are
rising any time a cop is involved with the African-American community --

GUILFOYLE: I think people are using this as a convenient excuse for
lawlessness and misbehavior and misdeeds. I mean, that's -- in some

FRANCIS: For the record, I saw Jay-Z at the Yankee stadium -- nothing like
this. That was a hip hop, rap concert -- there you go.

BOLLING: Right. OK. Let's move on to this one with the escalation of
tension in America. Maybe now is not the time to open up a contentious
debate over guns. Someone forgot to tell the Chicago race-baiting
community. Here's Reverend Michael Pfleger, flanked by none other than the
Reverend Jessie Jackson, blaming the NRA for the elevated number of
homicides in Chicago.


the NRA, tired of them prostituting themselves and buying politicians in
this country. You can argue us, you can call us names.


PFLEGER: But you got to deal with God.


PFLEGER: And the blood of our children is on your hands. And you will pay
for the murder of our children.


BOLLING: So somehow, the reverend is blaming the NRA for the elevated
number of homicides and I have a hunch that the elevated numbers of
homicides are committed with handguns that are probably not obtained
legally, Tom.

SHILLUE: I agree with everything you say and I don't think that's a very
good looking t-shirt over the priest outfit.


SHILLUE: It's not --

BOLLING: Have to go too low?

SHILLUE: No, I do not have the (inaudible). I don't like his fashion either
but, yes. I agree too. It's ridiculous, he always goes after the NRA, and
you know, he's been singing the same song. I don't know -- I don't think --
I'm ever going to listen to Father Pfleger.

FRANCIS: Yeah. I mean, it's difficult to deconstruct even what this is all
about because if you're not going together and trying to put a stop the
violence in Chicago, trying to make the link to blame the NRA when - you
know, I doubt. As you said, many of these guns are being legally used by
those who have permits for them. I don't think that's the root of the
problem. If it's the problem, maybe there's -- some I, I don't know. The
connection is not there.

BOLLING: Julie -- is there any logical connection between the NRA and

ROGINSKY: Yeah. I mean, the NRA opposes universal background checks. I
think if we have more background checks, he might be able to keep handle --

BOLLING: Bad guys are gonna do background checks.

ROGINSKY: No, I -- that (inaudible) are not gonna do background checks with
some people who are mentally ill may not be able to get these guns and then
shoot. I don't know. But I -- look, Pfleger to me --

BOLLING: A background check would --

ROGINSKY: Pfleger to me --

BOLLING: Would flag in him to you know, a person and that's --


ROGINSKY: If you have them. Yes, but NRA opposes universal background

SHILLUE: Well, do they really? Aren't they generally supports --

BOLLING: To have generate (ph) on you --


BOLLING: You still need a background check.

ROGINSKY: Not according to the NRA. Anybody can walk in and buy one.


GUILFOYLE: No, no, no. That's not the law.

BOLLING: No, I mean. You cannot just walk in and buy a gun without a
background check.


BOLLING: You have to be background check.

ROGINSKY: Wait a second.

BOLLING: This got -- this violent --

ROGINSKY: Under where? Not, not, not at gun shows --

BOLLING: should you've --

ROGINSKY: Not in all gun shows.

BOLLING: Yeah -- yes, at gun shows as well.


ROGINSKY: Not at all gun shows. The NRA opposes that at gun shows at
universal mandated background checks. You know that.

BOLLING: But that's not the law.

GUILFOYLE: No, but that is their stated position. It is however, not the
law. Therefore, background checks are required. Therefore, this
ridiculousness by this reverend makes no sense. He just wants to focus on
an inanimate object and not about the individual that's pick me up and
choosing to use it in a way that is illegal.

BOLLING: Can I show something else out here? Baltimore in seven full days
in Baltimore, now the amount of hot number of homicides in Baltimore is on
pace to exceed last month which was a 40 year high in the number of
homicides in Baltimore. As we point the finger at cops, places get more

ROGINSKY: Yeah, I agree with you. There's a horrible epidemic that's going
on in this country. Now I don't disagree with you on that, but at the same
time, you can't say that the NRA's job -- number one is not to sell as many
guns as possible. It is their job. They're gun manufacturers and their jobs

BOLLING: But gun -- but selling more guns doesn't necessarily means --


BOLLING: Crime will go up.

ROGINSKY: Wait, Eric.

BOLLING: In fact, the numbers prove out that when more guns are in the
hands of Americans --

ROGINSKY: Well. Actually, actually --

BOLLING: Crimes go down.

ROGINSKY: You have to (inaudible) about the statistics and I can show you
other studies that you and I talked about this last week that disprove what
you said, but the reality is -- look, Pfleger is --

BOLLING: But yours are wrong.

ROGINSKY: Well, my studies aren't wrong.

BOLLING: I'll go -- I'll go to have --

ROGINSKY: Because we have different study --

BOLLING: I'll go to the FBI stats.


BOLLING: The FBI shows that over --


BOLLING: The 20 year period 1993 to 2013, gun, firearm ownership in America
went up by 50 percent at that same period of time, murder rate went down --

ROGINSKY: OK. You and I, you and I debate stats but --

SHILLUE: And these deaths in inner city Chicago, none of them come from
guns that are bought at a gun show.


ROGINSKY: How do you know?

FRANCIS: And if you bring it back to the point of Baltimore --

ROGINSKY: How do you --

FRANCIS: Which I think is where you're trying to button this up. The idea
is that now police are standing back as a result of everything that we just
talked about. You know, they're standing back and it's causing more
violence to go on at this point. We need to figure out some way to police
community safely and not step over the line as we've seen a lot of these
cases, but at the same time, we need law and order. We or not having it,
murders are up.

BOLLING: Yeah. Julie, we need to point out that the vast majority of the
homicides going on in Chicago are done with illegal guns. Are --


BOLLING: If people who don't have background checks, who don't go through
concealed carry licensing, they just show up, buy an illegal gun, they got
to buy another gun and kill them.

ROGINSKY: Yeah. They, they can go to a gun show and buy a gun without
having a background check.

BOLLING: You don't need to go a gun show because if they go to a gun show,
they'll have a background check.

ROGINSKY: How do you know where they get them?

BOLLING: They'll buy them on the street.


BOLLING: It's -- very common knowledge.




BOLLING: Next, that's what all we got. Next, the Republican presidential
candidate who issued a public plea this weekend for Caitlyn Jenner's vote,
that and much more, coming up on The Five.


GUILFOYLE: Caitlyn Jenner made her public debut last week on the cover of
Vanity Fair. This summer, she'll star in the new reality show chronicling
her life as a transgender woman.


CAITLYN JENNER, TRANSGENDER: So many people go through life and they never
deal with their own issues. No matter what the issues are, ours happen to
be gender identity. But, how many people go through life and just waste
their entire life because they never deal with themselves that be who they

You go through all this stuff and you start learning, kind of the pressure
that women are under all the time about their appearance. I never had until
a couple of weeks ago. Actually, a professional come in and do my makeup.
What a difference.


JENNER: Wasn't it great to maybe someday you'll be normal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you are normal.

JENNER: Just blend in the society.


JENNER: Put it this way -- I'm the new normal.

GUILFOYLE: Well, when talking about a transition to Diane Sawyer, Jenner
revealed something else at most people didn't know about. She's a
Republican and one GOP presidential candidate is hoping to get her vote.


in her shoes. I don't have all the answers to the mysteries of life. I can
only imagine the torment that Bruce Jenner went through. I hope he's -- I
hope she is found peace. I'm a pro life traditional marriage kind of guy,
but I'm running for the president of the United States. If Caitlyn Jenner
wants to be a Republican, she is welcome in my party.


GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, that's a warm embracing outlook. What do you think,

FRANCIS: My hat is off to Caitlyn Jenner. I mean what an amazing PR
management of just the entire media. The media is having a conversation
with itself about these at all times. She has out stunted Kris Jenner. I
mean, making the manager. Just look like she doesn't even know how to get
attention to this point. What a genius move to say that you're a Republican
and you're this controversial figure and you're courting the Republican
vote. It's an excellent opportunity for an advocate of a smaller government
to say, I may or may not agree with what you have done, but sure isn't the
government's business. I mean, it's a great opportunity to make that point,
but what genius? I mean to come out and say you're a Republican, wow, now
all of a sudden everybody on the right is over recording the vote, no?

ROGINSKY: Well, not everybody. I mean, it's not people are and good for
them. I have talked to Lindsey Graham, good for him for being so welcoming.
I think it's wonderful there have been a fewer welcoming people. Others
were not so welcoming. Mike Huckabee, made some (Inaudible) remarks I
thought a couple of months ago about transgender people, but -- you know,
my hats off for Lindsey Graham. Good for him for expanding the way -- the
(inaudible) of Republican Party this time.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling? (ph)

SHILLUE: Was Lindsey Graham being honest?

ROGINSKY: About what?

SHILLUE: He never -- he never walked in her shoes? Or did he, did he ever -


SHILLUE: Just around the apartment. Just --

FRANCIS: Where did he go --


FRANCIS: I feel like --


FRANCIS: I want to scooch more to this side of the table because -- this is
turning into a --


ROGINSKY: Is there question?

SHILLUE: Unlikely, go to --

BOLLING: Go to every flop (ph).

SHILLUE: Slip on a couple of ideal, and walked around.

BOLLING: So I cannot honestly, say I have. I also --

ROGINSKY: Is there a question you have for Lindsey Graham? I don't

BOLLING: I would also like to congratulate Lindsey Graham because he's
going to get at least one vote now. That's a good thing for Lindsey Graham.

GUILFOYLE: God, where's the love at this table?

BOLLING: And it probably ends right there.

FRANCIS: I have lots of love.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, you were good, that you went on that.


BOLLING: I miss Bruce Jenner. I really -- I liked Bruce Jenner.

ROGINSKY: He's -- Bruce Jenner is still here and he's just Caitlyn Jenner

BOLLING: Caitlyn's --


BOLLING: I'm not a big as fan as Caitlyn (inaudible).

SHILLUE: Bruce was kind of likeable. She is very likeable too that even
just the clip of the reality show. I don't even like reality shows and
unlike, you know I wouldn't mind watching that. He thinks --


SHILLUE: She -- there we go.

GUILFOYLE: Be careful.

SHILLUE: She -- I talked to Bruce Jenner. I, I called him on the phone
after he -- Bruce Jenner won the Olympics. I got on the phone and called it
a call -- talk radio and I talked to him, it was a thrill of my life. I was
-- you know, 11-year-old kid, but it was fantastic.

GUILFOYLE: You're the (inaudible).



GUILFOYLE: You fill in -- you sound, perfectly Sir Greg.

SHILLUE: I talked to him on the phone, after he won the decathlon.

BOLLING: But you missed him so.

SHILLUE: Oh yeah, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's pretty cool. So there, now you guys are in
agreement again. There you go, all right.

FRANCIS: Up close.

GUILFOYLE: So it's going to be interesting, one to watch. All right, now,
to another political hot topic. Hillary Clinton's voting rights crusade and
new reaction from conservatives to her inflammatory remarks last week.


systematically and deliberately trying to stop millions of American
citizens from voting. What part of democracy are they afraid of?

the aforementioned race debating statement she made, I think it's made
rather cynically. It's cheap demogrogary (ph)--


GUILFOYLE: OK. So you know Charles Krauthammer never wants to means his
words. He is saying, look, this is cheap like demogrogary (ph). What do you
think, Eric?

BOLLING: Charles is right. We have been talking about that same demogrogary

GUILFOYLE: He's always right.

BOLLING: Yeah. And the issue is that Hillary Clinton was suing states to
increase their voting -- window for voting. Meanwhile, New York State has
none, right? There are no days for early voting in New York State. Her own
state, the state she was senator and that -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I
don't think I heard Hillary suing New York State. Did she?

ROGINSKY: No. I mean, listen, Andrew Cuomo should get with it. I think a
lot of people should get with it and do early voting. I think the notion of
what's she's talking about is good. I don't see a problem with the
universal registration at 18. What's the problem? Register the people to
vote when they get to be 18. You can choose exercise or franchise or not,
but why can't you just register?

BOLLING: You need an I.D. to register.

ROGINSKY: Well, listen.

BOLLING: Oh, oh, oh.

ROGINSKY: No, no, no. Well, I will tell you this is about --

BOLLING: Register but (inaudible).

ROGINSKY: I am, I've -- I've said this, I have said this --

GUILFOYLE: Use the ACORN, use it.

ROGINSKY: Can I just say this? Did I say this?


ROGINSKY: This is what I would back --


ROGINSKY: No. You got -- I haven't answered your question yet. You already
are telling me that it is horrible.


BOLLING: That's it.

ROGINSKY: I am for I.D.'s if you can provide people with free I.D.'s.


ROGINSKY: I think I just --

BOLLING: Texas is --

ROGINSKY: And, and the problem is a lot of people don't have access to
their birth certificates. A lot of people don't have passports because
they never got one.

BOLLING: Don't need them. Don't need them to have.

ROGINSKY: And the question is, if you can somehow climb a mechanism, where
people don't have to spend the money to get those on the line documents --

BOLLING: That's, we even get you transportation to the place to take the
picture --

ROGINSKY: But, but wait a second, how do you still prove that you are who
you are when you get the I.D. if you don't have a birth certificate, you
don't have a passport, you don't have any of those stuffs --

BOLLING: You think there any -- a phone bill. There's like a --


ROGINSKY: Yeah, fine. So if you --

FRANCIS: You know what? I don't, I don't understand --

SHILLUE: A cable bill. A cable, it's like they all provide even if they
can't take for an I.D, they got a cable bill.

GUILFOYLE: That's correct. It didn't say, don't pay the cable bill. OK

FRANCIS: I don't understand what problem we're trying to solve here. I
mean, when you look at the studies and you look at the date, they came out
of AP. I mean, they're neutral. They went and they crunched data out of the
census and they found that voters, black voters as a percentage of the
population, and the percentage of the electric. It was totally proportional
to their percentage of the population, same with white voters. So everybody
is voting --

GUILFOYLE: It's not a race issue.

FRANCIS: It's not a race issue. So I don't know why we're trying to say
that somebody's vote is trying to be suppressed, we need to get more people
out to the votes polls. If you feel passionate, you're educated on the
issues and you care, go vote. If you don't care to be engaged and you don't
care to form an opinion, don't go vote. Then you're not engaged. Then
you're -- you know you're just randomly checking boxes.


FRANCIS: We don't want that.

ROGINSKY: But why not register people and then have them made a decisions
to go vote or not vote?

SHILLUE: I want them to go --

FRANCIS: What's the problem with that?

SHILLUE: I want the initiative and I want voting day. I don't like voting
month. Get up on voting day and go to the polls and vote.

ROGINSKY: Some people work, though.

GUILFOYLE: They are against early voting.

SHILLUE: Yes. I mean all of this.

GUILFOYLE: And what about absentee ballots?

SHILLUE: Oh, we did everything, except the military.


GUILFOYLE: OK. God bless, America. One presidential contender is vowing to
eliminate legalize marijuana in America, even if it will cost him votes in
the states of voted for. It's next on The Five, stay with us.


SHILLUE: Colorado became the first state in the nation to legalize
recreational pot in 2012. "Sixty Minutes" just did a follow-up on the
demand and the dangers.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those who might remember pot from the '70s, the
marijuana grown and sold in Colorado today is up to ten times stronger.
There's a healthy appetite for the Rocky Mountain high and no shortage of
stores to supply the demand. Colorado has licensed more than 300
recreational dispensaries, ringing up $303 million in sales last year; $52
million in tax revenue.

Just three months into legalization, a 19-year-old college student visiting
Denver leapt to his death from a hotel balcony after eating a pot-laced
cookie. The coroner's report noted marijuana intoxication as a significant
contributing factor.


SHILLUE: Pot stores have become big business there. This one owner is
defending her sales.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say you're a business person. I think some parents
would look at this and say, "She's just pedaling drugs."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can tell you that the drug dealer, illegal drug
dealer on the corner in any state in this nation isn't carding, isn't
checking your I.E., isn't making sure you have a medical marijuana card or
you're over 21. This industry does it every day. The stats show it.
We've done a phenomenal job.


SHILLUE: She doesn't look like a drug dealer. Does she, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: She's pretty focused also and alert. Paying attention.

SHILLUE: Yes, exactly.

FRANCIS: What are you trying to say?

GUILFOYLE: Don't know that she's smoking it.

SHILLUE: She probably isn't. She's a CEO. She came from the business
world, and now she's running this company.

But, you know, we heard, Kimberly, that when you legalize pot -- we heard
this for years, if they legalize pot, it will take out the motive for the
drug dealers, and there will be no illegal activity. There's still illegal
activity, because people want to avoid paying their taxes. So they were
wrong about that, right?

GUILFOYLE: It's still happening, correct. And it's also now, OK, so we've
got some economic stimulus going, some money flowing back into the economy.
A little bit of taxation going on. So perhaps they're happier, because
there's a revenue increase, but it hasn't run the drug dealers off the

SHILLUE: And it's opened up all sorts of other problems.

Melissa, let's take a look at what Chris Christie said about national pot
laws and enforcing them.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were president would you return the federal
prosecutions in the states like Colorado, Washington state?



CHRISTIE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So how are you going to win Colorado when you do that?

CHRISTIE: I think there's probably a lot of people in Colorado not too
thrilled with what's going on there right now. And you know the way you
win any state? You go out and you tell people the truth, and you lay out
your ideas; and you either win or you lose.


SHILLUE: OK, Melissa, politically wise or not?

FRANCIS: OK, so this is exactly what a lot of those merchants like the one
you saw in the story are worried about. And it's the reason why they can't
get bank accounts. This is one of the biggest problems when you're running
one of these businesses. Nobody wants to bank your money, because they're
afraid the feds are going to come in at any moment and say that this is not
legal anymore.

They also have to fill out tons of forms under suspicious money acts or
whatever it is when you...

SHILLUE: Everything's cash.

FRANCIS: All cash. They have RFID tags on every single one of those
plants. That costs about 25 cents a plant. Each one, every time going

The insurance won't cover them anymore. Lloyds of London has pulled out of
this business, because it's just -- it's gotten to be too dangerous. So I
think that this is not going quite as smoothly as everyone thought it

GUILFOYLE: What a nice business perspective.

FRANCIS: It's all about the money.

SHILLUE: Well, yes, of course.

BOLLING: ... the other business perspective?


BOLLING: OK. You heard tax revenue, $50 million. And that's substantial.
But that's probably the least benefit to the state of Colorado.

The greater benefit would be not jailing people for low-level crimes,
victimless crimes like marijuana use and possession. I mean, we build in
this country 10 plus prisons for every university we build, and the vast
majority of them are housing people for low-level...

SHILLUE: Really? Are there people -- people -- possession of marijuana
these people are...

BOLLING: That's up there, Tommy. And can I just comment on Chris

GUILFOYLE: Nobody's going to prison.

BOLLING: Chris Christie is making a fatal mistake. Chris Christie's
taking a shot at libertarianism. He did it before.


BOLLING: He's doubling down right now. And he -- if he wants to run and
become elected or even be the candidate, he's going to need the libertarian
or the independent vote, the young people vote, and they will not vote for
someone who's going to go backwards on this issue.

ROGINSKY: Everything you said, this is like scary. This is the second
week in a row you and I agree on something. I agree with you 100 percent.
Every argument against legalized pot is the argument you can make against
alcohol. Every single one.

FRANCIS: But that doesn't make it right.

ROGINSKY: So we should ban alcohol?

FRANCIS: No. I didn't say that. I mean, I don't understand. So you can
make it against alcohol, you can make it against...

ROGINSKY: My point is pot is no more and probably less harmful than
alcohol is. I don't understand the stigma of not legalizing marijuana.
And I don't even smoke it. I don't understand why. I don't get it.

FRANCIS: There are a lot of addicts out there, screaming for help...


SHILLUE: One of us at a time.

ROGINSKY: There are a lot of alcoholics who are probably screaming at the
TV about legalized...

GUILFOYLE: I've never even tried it and I'm not going to.

BOLLING: It's not about using marijuana now. For the record, like Julie
said, I don't smoke it either. And a lot of libertarians want to pass this
law. They want to get marijuana off the books, make it at least
decriminalized, if not legal. Not me. I'm just -- I'm a firm believer
that people -- our jails are overcrowded.

GUILFOYLE: Again, but that's like county jail. You do not go to federal,
like, prison or go to it just for possession or, like, personal use.

ROGINSKY: Why are we spending money on county jails?

BOLLING: Why do we...

SHILLUE: Time to go. All good questions. "The Five" doesn't smoke pot.

OK. Next on "The Five," the matriarch of the Bush family gives a new
interview on her 90th birthday. Barbara Bush reveals her nickname and
something she's not going to talk about, moving forward. Coming up.

GUILFOYLE: What is that?


FRANCIS: We would like to wish a very happy birthday to an American icon.
Former first lady Barbara Bush turned 90 years young today. She won't be
skydiving like her husband. She is celebrating with her family and did an
interview with one of her granddaughters, Jenna Bush.


JENNA BUSH, GRANDDAUGHTER OF BARBARA BUSH (voice-over): We all call her...


J. BUSH (on camera): Why do you think we call you The Enforcer?

B. BUSH: Because I enforce. If you do something bad, I point it out to


FRANCIS: Although Barbara is known for speaking her mind, she says she's
going to keep quiet on one subject: politics.


B. BUSH: I promise that during this next campaign season, I will not talk.
I'm not going to be amusing about someone who does something stupid in the

J. BUSH: One of the things I've admired about you is that you've stuck up
for the things that you thought are right and voiced your opinion.

B. BUSH: I'm going to stop voicing my opinion and sticking up for things I
think are right, except my boy. I think he's brilliant.


FRANCIS: She's going to be quiet during the campaign. What a mistake. I
mean, she's one of the best things the Bushes have going. They should have
her out there front and center.

GUILFOYLE: I agree. Happy birthday. It's incredible. Just the
dedication, her patriotism and, I think, her sacrifice to this country;
everything her family has done for the country. I think she's fantastic,
and she's got a lot of spunk. People should be motivated to know that you
make every day count like she does. And I hope she does talk. I hope
she's chatty during this next election.

FRANCIS: They call her The Enforcer.

GUILFOYLE: I love that.

FRANCIS: Which makes all kinds of sense, because behind every successful
family is one bad-ass mama. Right? True? Is that right?



ROGINSKY: Yes. And look, first of all, happy birthday Mrs. Bush. I think
it's great.

I believe the last time she got chatty she said the country has had enough
of Clintons and Bushes. So I think the family might have gone to her and
said, "You might want to not be so chatty this time around."

But happy birthday to Mrs. Bush and many, many years of health.

FRANCIS: Thank you, Julie.

She also did say that she -- they asked about the stereotype of her wearing
the pearls all the time, Jenna did, and she said, "That's OK. The pearls
are to cover the wrinkle, and it doesn't work any longer because you can't
wear the pearls over your face."

She has a great sense of humor.

GUILFOYLE: So clever.

BOLLING: I want to wish her a happy birthday, as well. She's awesome. My
favorite Bush of all the Bushes, by the way. And I wish she would talk. I
love what she said the last time. And I understand why she wants to stay
quiet. The question my boy, is she talking about Jeb or...

FRANCIS: They did clarify that. She went on to clarify, and it was Jeb.

SHILLUE: Take a tip from Mrs. Bush: have your daughters interview you. No
more the national press corps; go with your kids.

ROGINSKY: I just want to be clear that if this were Chelsea interviewing
Hillary on "The Today Show," all of you would be going ballistic about the
nepotism going on today. So I just want to say that.

FRANCIS: Well, and on that happy note...

GUILFOYLE: It's a birthday celebration for a 90-year-old incredible woman.
That's why it's so charming.

BOLLING: The Clintons, who were Hillary's parents, they were...

FRANCIS: All right. All right.

Do kids need to go to preschool? They can learn just as much from "Sesame
Street." Stay tuned.


ROGINSKY: Many of us grew up watching Sesame Street.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: C'mon get ready! C'mon get set! It's time for the
Sesame Street alphabet.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "C" is for Cookie Monster. "D" for dessert. Om, nom,


ROGINSKY: The longest running children's program in America has been
entertaining kids for more than 45 years. It's also having lasting
educational impact. According to new studies, the benefits kids get from
watching "Sesame Street" can be as powerful as the ones children get from


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything that we do here at Sesame Workshop is
really devoted to helping children grow smarter, stronger and kinder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must listen with your whole body. Eyes watch.
Ears listen. Voice quiet. Body calm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we see that he explains what listening with his
whole body is. It is a way to show children that if they don't pay
attention, that they're not going to learn the instructions to get,
actually, what they want.


ROGINSKY: I go to work to avoid watching "Sesame Street," and it pulls me
back in, even at work. Because I have a 3-year-old.

So, but you and I were speaking about this a little earlier, and I think we
have a disagreement that we never discussed what it is. I have a problem
with the fact that I think "Sesame Street's" great. But that you get in
preschool is socialization. Kids get to learn from other kids. They get
to interact. They become a member of a community, which you don't get from
a TV show. What do you think?

FRANCIS: Absolutely. But I think it depends on what preschool we're
talking about. What this study really teaches you is that, if you have a
smaller kid right now, you would know there's a lot of progressive
education taking over in preschools across the country right now. And they
do what they call child-based and child-focused education, where they let
the kids drive the action. And they don't focus on the numbers, and they
don't focus on the letters. And they say you're going to learn that later.
And we've even visited schools where they're not even using the alphabet.

And I think what this study shows you is that you really need to give the
kids the basics in a very straightforward way over and over again. Because
the study found that the kids who watched "Sesame Street" were more likely
to stay in the proper grade. And the kids that didn't were being left
behind. And I think it shows you, you need the basic fundamentals drilled
in at an early age.

Obviously, you're right: Preschool definitely is about more than just
learning that, the socialization. But you can't gloss over the alphabet,
numbers, basic math, phonics.

SHILLUE: Tools of the oppressors?

FRANCIS: Yes. Those very same tools. Numbers, communication.

GUILFOYLE: The alphabet.

ROGINSKY: You're such a numerist. Gosh.

Kimberly, you have a little boy.


ROGINSKY: A little too old for "Sesame Street." But was he into it when
he was little? Or...

GUILFOYLE: Not really. Didn't like it too much.

I like "Sesame Street." I liked it probably more than, you know, he did.
But I think "Sesame Street" is important, if he's, like, doing other
things. Preschool is extremely expensive. I don't know how much he got
out of that, per se, besides he's playing with your kid. Butch Cassidy and
the Sundance Kid.

FRANCIS: They were. Our kids came together at the same preschool and got
in all kinds of trouble. I didn't say that on national television.

BOLLING: Listen, don't let your kids watch "Sesame Street." They're
communists. They're feminists...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: Miss Piggy said she's a feminist. She was given a feminist
award. Cut the last -- second to the last "Sesame Street" [SIC] movie...

GUILFOYLE: You knew that was coming.

BOLLING: Tex Rich Man. Tex Rich Man, the oil barren business guy, is
going to take down the "Sesame Street" [SIC] studio.

GUILFOYLE: Like the Koch brothers.


ROGINSKY: Only, only...

BOLLING: I'm really just kind of kidding, but there is some sort of left-
leaning stuff going on there.

ROGINSKY: Wow, only Bolling (ph).

BOLLING: Also, Elmo, the red guy...


BOLLING: ... he changes in the subway over there. It's just disturbing,
seeing that. The one from Times Square.

FRANCIS: What you're talking about is in every single school everywhere.
And it's the perfect opportunity for you as a parent to reinforce the
values that you believe over what they're being taught in the outside
world. Because you're going to encounter that sort of thing everywhere you


SHILLUE: The schools are more left than "Sesame Street." And I think
they're -- I was raised on "Sesame Street." I was one of the original
"Sesame Street" kids. I loved it. I loved Oscar. I was not an Elmo kid.

FRANCIS: Is that a vote against that, or for it?

SHILLUE: I'm for it. Look what happened. "Sesame Street," I'm a shining

ROGINSKY: Is that where the word "fantasy" comes from?

All right. "One More Thing" is up next.


BOLLING: OK. Time for "One More Thing," and K.G.'s up.

GUILFOYLE: There's nothing like a couple beautiful babes, you agree?
Well, take a look at the royal babies. They're super cute in their little
photo shoot. There's multiple photos. This is Prince George with his new
baby sister, Princess Charlotte for the first time. And the photographer
behind the lens, you may ask, that took these outstanding photographs,
well, Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, their mother.

Anyway, I thought these were adorable. Look at the little bessito.

BOLLING: Very cute.

GUILFOYLE: Very cute.

BOLLING: Good job, K.G. You're getting the royals in the show.

GUILFOYLE: I do what I can.

SHILLUE: I don't think they should comb little babies' hair, though. I
don't like that.

FRANCIS: Why? It looks fantastic.

BOLLING: We need to move on. OK, so this came out. I understand this.
That the northern white rhino is -- there are only five of them left. In
fact, there's only one male. Here he is. His name is Sudan. That's he.

GUILFOYLE: You just like saying "rhino."

BOLLING: There's a female, Najeen (ph). We have a picture of Najeen (ph),
the female. They're trying to breed these two to keep the species going.
The northern rhino species, they need to keep them going.

FRANCIS: Where are we going with this?

BOLLING: If they do get to the point where they have a child, a baby
rhino, go ahead, do me a favor. Hit me up, @EricBolling on Twitter. Name
that rhino.

GUILFOYLE: You know, this is like a joke.

BOLLING: Tom, you're up.

GUILFOYLE: You're so bad.

SHILLUE: Baby. All right. Greg plugged my new "Red Eye" gig...

GUILFOYLE: Of course I did.

SHILLUE: ... on the show, so I've got to -- I've got to return the favor
and plug Greg's show. Are you watching? I watched last night. There was
a great segment. This is true. I want you to know, this is true.


GREG GUTFELD, HOST, "THE GREG GUTFELD SHOW": When this show was announced,
some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) purchased the website address, which is Since then, he's been holding the site for ransom.
He joins us now. This is him. I stress: this is real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were too stupid to buy your own show's website.
So, we thought it a good idea to buy it up and hold it ransom, much like
Rupert Pupkin did to Jerry Langford.

GUTFELD: It worked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And get on the show. And lo and behold, here I am.


BOLLING: All right.

FRANCIS: That was you.

SHILLUE: No, it was not. I think I know who it is, but that wasn't me.

BOLLING: All right. Julie, got to get to you.

ROGINSKY: Well, you know how much I love led zeppelin. And they're
opening up their archives for the very last time. Eric and I are going to
be really psyched about this. There's a new song coming out called "Sugar
Mama." And it was supposed to originally be on "Zep 1." It is not "Zep 1"
quality, but it's still amazing. I urge you all to listen to it on the
Internet. And if you love Led Zeppelin like I do, you'd be really excited
about it. Eric, I know you...

BOLLING: Absolutely going to check that one out.

All right. Melissa's up.

FRANCIS: I didn't know you shared this commonality.

ROGINSKY: We are like soul mates. Yes.

BOLLING: Classic rock lovers.

FRANCIS: So in case you missed it on Friday on -- I don't know what's
going on over there -- on "FOX and Friends," "Cooking with Friends," my
mother-in-law, Martha Thorn of the Thorn Collection, came on to cook with
me. Because the whole premise is you're supposed to share your own recipe.
and I don't have any. So I figured out that, you know, really people only
like the food that their mothers make. So I get my mother-in-law's recipes
and, even better, fly her in to do the cooking. My husband's happy.
Everyone's thrilled.

She got in a little ad at the end in for the Thorn Collection, which is her
real estate business. It was on the back of her jacket, and Elisabeth spun
her around to show it. I was sort of mortified. Pretty sure I was going
to be fired.


FRANCIS: Not so sure.

This is actually a fish fry recipe. She loves to do fish fries, and we
like it.

GUILFOYLE: Wait, cheese and what?

FRANCIS: Cheese grits and sausage baked beans for a fish fry. It's
fabulous. We've got the recipe. Tweet me.

BOLLING: We've got to go. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of
"The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" next.

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