Immigration debate heats up on Capitol Hill
Republican lawmakers meet to try and settle a battle over the GOP's path forward; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 7, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
A flood of news stories are fueling the debate over immigration in America, Republican lawmakers meeting today to try to settle a battle over the party's path forward on this issue, Speaker Paul Ryan commenting afterwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL RYAN, HOUSE SPEAKER: We've just had a very productive conference meeting in the House Republican Conference to discuss solutions to our broken immigration system. This is a conversation that will continue. And hopefully, we can find a path ahead that is consistent with the four pillars that the president laid out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: New department of homeland security data for May showing a surge in the number of family and unaccompanied minor border crossings arrests. Those numbers rising significantly compared to the same time last year. This all coming as the acting ICE director is pushing back against liberal criticism with some surprising information.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS HOMAN, ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: If you look at our numbers last year, 72 percent of our arrests was a convicted criminals. If you look at criminal history, those that's either convicted or pending criminal charges, 89 percent of everybody we arrested last year had a criminal history. That's 9 out of 10.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: And the Democratic mayor of Philadelphia celebrating a court ruling against the Trump administration on sanctuary cities by doing this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: A sanctuary city.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: The White House is calling those dance moves quite disgusting. And the arrest of an illegal immigrant, New York City pizza delivery man is making national headlines. Pablo Villavicencio is facing deportation after being detained earlier this month while dropping up food at a military base. Guards there discovering an active ICE warrant while doing a background check. So, lots of immigration stories to talk about today. Kimberly, I'm going to give you the run of the table. Which one do you want to talk about?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes, all of it. I want to take the table. So, I think what's particularly interesting to me here is like when you look at this, you see, you know, human interest story. Somebody trying to work, do the job, nevertheless, has an active detainer in the system.
PERINO: This is the pizza delivery man.
GUILFOYLE: Absolutely, pizza delivery man. And so, when you see a situation like that, you show pictures of him and his family, you think wow, what are we going to do about people like this who are trying to make a living but, nevertheless, the law is the law, right? That there was an active detainer. It has to be upheld. If they have a detainer they were missed, if they don't.
PERINO: And he had promised a judge in 2010 that he would leave within two months.
GUILFOYLE: And he didn't.
PERINO: . he didn't.
GUILFOYLE: People over stay. You hear that all the time. Nice people with nice families, but you have to have some bright line rules here, or we won't have order in a lawful society. And we have an obligation to do that because the rules can't apply to some people but not to others. So, you want to have uniformity. You want to be fair in the way that you handle it, but it has -- part of that fairness is an approach where the law is actually enforced.
PERINO: And probably for him, for the pizza delivery man, I mean, maybe he shouldn't go to a military base possibly. I don't know.
GUILFOYLE: No pizza for you.
PERINO: Yeah, I don't know.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah. He didn't have the right I.D, so you can't blame the guys at the fort.
PERINO: No.
GUTFELD: . for what they're doing because they have to follow the law, because you can't have somebody who is an illegal fugitive, he's actually a fugitive because in 2010 he didn't leave, to show up there. You would be punished -- I can't decide. However, you feel bad for this guy because you're in a system where we are struggling to stay ahead, keep our head above water. So, this non-criminal pizza guy gets screwed. And it's because -- because the Democrats won't let even feds go after the bad guys, the hammer that we use gets wider and blunter.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
GUTFELD: So, we do get the 9 out of 10, but we also get the 1 out of 10 because we have to get everybody. And I go back to one thing I've always said about the media narrative on this, which is really screwing up this debate. They make it about two ideas only. Either you're for total immigration or you're a xenophobe. And the fact is, with immigration you can have hold a portfolio of positions, right? You can be for some immigration. You can be against some immigration. You can be specific kinds. And give special credit to people who contribute. But, at the same time, you could want to build a wall, and say you want to have a giant gate. This is very important. With immigration, you should be able to hold competing positions, portfolio position, rather than let the media dictate the narrative and tell you it's either this or this. It can be -- you can have five positions on immigration, and that's the healthiest way to look at this.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: You could say the pizza guy -- you know what Donald Trump should do, Donald Trump should probably try to help the pizza guy out.
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Trump should pardon the pizza guy.
GUTFELD: Give him clemency.
GUILFOYLE: Pizza pardon.
WATTERS: Pizza pardon.
GUILFOYLE: And a pizza party.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Isn't that a great idea?
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Remember, he got the warrant under Obama. So, Trump can go, this is all Obama's fault. This is Obama's fault. Let's get this guy out.
PERINO: The other thing though, I mean.
GUILFOYLE: Good point, Jesse. Food court tomorrow, pizza party.
PERINO: Interesting idea, Juan. What if, you could make an argument that a stronger border policy and structure, a wall, would have made it easier for people who are here and law-abiding to some sort, even though he should self-deported, that the wall would make it better for people who are here and want to stay and want to work and are here legally? Like, if you want to get to some sort of amnesty point, or we need another word for that, but President Trump had said he's willing to do a lot on DACA. If the Democrats will give him a little-bit of money for the wall, they might be able to get some sort of grand bargain. Why do you look so confused? That's not a bad deal, that's a great deal. That's the art of the deal right there.
(LAUGHTER)
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: On the pizza guy, this is so crazy to me because this guy had been in and out of this place, this installation in Brooklyn, many times. And he has issued I.D. by the city of New York where he lives. His wife is an American citizen. He has two children born here in the USA, and he has applied for legal status. So, he was in the system, applied. So, what you guys say is absolutely true, that he was told in 2010 to leave and did not leave at that time, since applied. And all that we have here is, oh, there's a new security guard who didn't recognize him even though he'd delivered pizza there repeatedly. And then, that guy rather -- when the police come and say, well, there's no big deal here. They said no, we've got to really have to call ICE, right? So, all of a sudden it becomes politicized, and this poor little guy gets squished. And, I just think, you know, to me, this is an example of how things go out of control.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: But I don't know if it was politicized.
WILLIAMS: The point is.
WATTERS: He was just following the rules.
WILLIAMS: No, he's not following the rules.
WATTERS: The security guy is following the rules.
WILLIAMS: No, the security guard went overboard, Jesse, by suddenly getting ICE involved. Is this guy a threat? This is like Trump saying.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: He would consider that following the rules.
WILLIAMS: That's not following any rules. There was no rule requiring him to call ICE. This, to my mind, to just to make, you know, to pick up on the jokes that's being made, this is like Trump saying, oh, we're going to impose tariffs on Canada because they burned down the White House, when in fact it was the British. It's totally confused. And, Greg, you can have many.
WATTERS: Wait, isn't Canada in an alliance with the British?
WILLIAMS: Yeah, but they -- but Canada didn't burn down the White House. Talk about fake news. You're going to have Canada burning down the White House in 1814.
PERINO: Wait, how did we off track?
WATTERS: You need a history lesson, Juan. I think the Canadians were with alliance with the British.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: You can have many positions on immigration. And, in fact, I think the news of the day is what we've just heard from Paul Ryan, which he said, oh, yeah, we're going to have a vote, but the problem is that the far right of the Republican Party, the freedom caucus, thinks in terms that Dana was objecting to where everything is amnesty. If you make a deal, it's amnesty. Moderates are simply saying let's work on something that would allow.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: . reform system to take hold in this country with regard to more than 10 million, because you've got more than 10 million people. You can't do a pizza guy job on all 10 million.
WATTERS: Juan, you can have a lot of different positions on immigration, and all of yours happened to be wrong. I think what we're talking about here.
WILLIAMS: I would agree with you, but then we both be wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
WATTERS: . make a deal on immigration.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: . where you secure the border, and then you take care of the people that are inside the country right now. What we've done for decades is give them amnesty and not secure the border. And that's why we've keep on having this problem. The Democrats will not secure the border. And that's why there's no deal, Juan. You're going to keep having people come in illegally until you solve that problem.
WILLIAMS: Jesse, first of all, this not about amnesty. This is about us as an American people who have more than 10 million people here illegally.
WATTERS: And a part of the negotiation is putting a pathway to citizenship on the table.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: But pizza guy.
WATTERS: He's not a priority for me either. I agree with that.
GUTFELD: The solution is two words, Donald DACA. That's all it is. He could totally destroy the Democratic Party by introducing his path to citizenship, call it Donald DACA, make it supple, straightforward a clear path for the good and for the people who contribute. Whether you enlist in the army, whether you're a guy who's working, who has no prison -- criminal record and has a family, and you could still build that wall because you want the wall and you want the gate. That's just good politics. That is good policy. And that's what we want because, again, you know, Eric Weinstein makes this point that mass immigration advocates depend on a false narrative that all restrictions are xenophobic when, in fact, you can be -- you can love other cultures but believe in restrictions because it helps jobs in other countries to keep the talent from leaving, and helps for jobs in this country so other people can get jobs.
PERINO: The other thing is that President Trump could do as he does Donald DACA, and all of those things, he should dare the conservatives and the freedom caucus to go against him.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: And let's see how that goes, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a great strategy. And he's been very successful doing these types of thing where people wouldn't necessarily think. You're championing an issue, he takes it, makes it his own, and he markets it and puts it forward. And I think this a really good opportunity because this has been such an intractable issue for years and years and years. But there is a motivation and interest from the public to be able to do something about it, right? Because you have it -- it's rife with problems in terms of sanctuary cities. You've got people that, you know, going crazy about that. You see somebody divide and division in California over it. You've got law and justice saying, listen, we need some help here, we want to enforce the law, but we also want to show that we're doing so in a meaningful way that appreciates people who are ordinarily, and for the most part, law-abiding that want to contribute. And we would also like your tax dollars.
WILLIAMS: The question then is, because I think with so much of what you're saying is rational, I just think, well, if Donald Trump was to do this, he would anger the people that Dana is talking about.
PERINO: But they can't win against him. But they can't win against him.
WILLIAMS: Yes, they will because.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Angering people with the free trade stuff right now.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: No, but -- he's angering people.
WATTERS: But he's throwing tariffs around like crazy.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's anti-free trade.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Yes, exactly, which upsets people like me. I don't think he cares.
WILLIAMS: You don't think he cares -- but he's got to care going towards the midterms about his base. And that's why the freedom caucus says we don't want a vote in congress because they're worried that hardline anti- immigrant conservatives will say, oh, what happened to the pledge to fight these horrible immigrants.
PERINO: Then, you know what you can do, you can do it in December, do it after the election.
WATTERS: But we need the wall funding more than anything.
GUTFELD: Build the wall and makes one side happy, and then you have the gate.
PERINO: All right, Time Magazine with a provocative new cover taking aim at President Trump for pushback against the Mueller probe. We'll discuss, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: As President Trump fights back against the special counsels Russia probe, attacks from the left keep on coming. Check out the new cover of Time Magazine depicting the president as a king for pushing back against the investigation. The president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, is also continuing to go after Mueller's team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: They are a group of 13 highly partisan Democrats that make up the Mueller team, excluding him, are trying very, very hard to frame him, to get him in trouble when he hasn't done anything wrong. Now, they may not know they're doing it. They may not realize they're doing it. But they can't emotionally come to grips with the fact that this whole thing of Russian collusion didn't happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: OK. So, Rudy Giuliani, the president's lawyer, just keep pushing back against this whole, you know, notion. I actually think quite verbal, quite vocal and public coming out and making these comments over the last few weeks.
WATTERS: Yeah. I've told you my theory on this. The people in the government under Obama, in that spring, were using the Trump people as bait. They thought the Russians were trying to, you know, play fast and loose and try to mess with the election, so they set out a bunch of traps, and then they try to lure the Russians in to collude. And they found out Russians didn't really bite. There was not a lot of hacking done with the Trump people and the Russians. They've never even took the servers. There was never any really hard evidence of collusion.
So then, all of a sudden, you get around to the next spring, and when Trump fires Comey that just justifies this entire collusion investigation, because we've never seen any evidence of the collision. We have seen evidence of massive stonewalling from the Department of Justice and the FBI. They won't allow any interviews to take place with the FBI agents. We still can't get the Flynn documents. Papadopoulos, apparently, never even committed perjury about when he said he met this so-called Russian professor. He was instead jammed my Mueller to say they're going to charge him with being a spy for Israel. That's what he fled to.
And, we haven't seen any documents with regards to the spy. We haven't seen any documents with regard to the FISA warrant. Only some people have seen it. And then, Strzok, where's Strzok? All we know about Strzok now, he had more of a role in this entire thing with the Clinton investigation and the Trump investigation. There's a lot of answers on that side that still -- I'd like to know.
GUILFOYLE: You've been asking where is Strzok for quite some time. You said on Hannity last night, where is Strzok?
WATTERS: I should have shown up on his doorstep with a camera. Old school Watters' World style.
GUILFOYLE: Missed opportunity.
WATTERS: I know.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana, so what do you make of Rudy's message? He's obviously the president's lawyer, but he's going out strong in terms of, you know, aggressive against the Mueller investigation. What do you think of that approach?
PERINO: Well, I guess, in the court of public opinion for the president's face it works well for him at this point. And then, I think that one of the reasons that there's not been any evidence -- there's either two reasons. Either there is no evidence.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: . or because the Mueller team doesn't leak. And I don't think we know the answer to that. The president so much on his plate right now that, I think, if he's talking about North Korea, like he did today, and letting Rudy Giuliani, if he wants to have his lawyer out there talking about this, that's probably a better idea, than him talking about it.
GUILFOYLE: Greg, you are a highly acclaimed, not just in your own mind, magazine editor from way back.
GUTFELD: That is true.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
GUTFELD: That is true, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: So, what do you think about this cover?
GUTFELD: Well, I believe that Time officially has become a high school newspaper. It is -- let's try these out.
WATTERS: And Dana would be the editor.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Time is officially thinner than Joy Reid's explanations for her blog post.
PERINO: Breath in.
GUTFELD: Breath in. Time Magazine is thinner than Brian Stelter's hairline.
WATTERS: Oh.
PERINO: Very thin.
GUILFOYLE: Very mean.
GUTFELD: Time magazine is thinner than CNN's lead over the Cartoon Network.
WATTERS: Oh.
GUTFELD: You like that one? Thinner than the plot for a porn movie.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Pass.
PERINO: Don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: The same people that are accusing Donald Trump of being like a king were probably the same people, you know, kneeling before Obama for eight years. So, this is what -- I don't blame Time because this is what you do when you're out of power. They're just admitting that they're part of a team that is out of power. Remember Time when you were growing up?
PERINO: Yes, it's so important.
GUTFELD: It was great. You did little book reports on Time. You take it to school.
PERINO: You use it in speech team.
GUTFELD: Exactly. Time is out of time.
GUILFOYLE: Time is out of time.
PERINO: It ran out.
GUILFOYLE: All right. So, Juan, what do you make of this cover? I mean, the president has a right to be able to defend himself and pushback. He said he hasn't done anything wrong, so what's wrong with sticking up for yourself if you've been falsely accused?
WILLIAMS: You guys must have missed the news. I understand why because you're busy with all this blabbering.
PERINO: Oh.
WILLIAMS: But the news is that Giuliani said the president can pardon himself. Now, gee, does that sound like an autocrat? Does that sound like a king to anybody?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: No, but you must have missed it because we had an entire discussion about why a major American media company would put that image on the cover. You're like, why? I think they're just picking on him. Oh, you know, those crazy Democrats, terrible, elite media. Oh, no reason for this. The president is just defending himself. Defending himself? First of all, is Giuliani really a lawyer or he's just the pitbull out there to make a lot of noise for the base, because, I mean.
PERINO: Could be both?
WILLIAMS: I don't get it. I don't understand.
GUILFOYLE: That's very simple to understand.
WILLIAMS: The second thing to say is the president is out there tweeting today, oh, you know, these guys are terrible, they're a bunch of Democrats. Wait a minute. You can check on these lawyers. It would be illegal. Illegal for Mueller to check on the political donations or credentials.
PERINO: But the media already did that.
WILLIAMS: They've done it, but it's not his job. He got the best lawyers.
WATTERS: And they just all happened to be Democrats.
WILLIAMS: Well, they are. What do you want me to tell you?
WATTERS: No Republican lawyers out there?
WILLIAMS: I didn't say that. I've just said.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Mueller is a Republican.
WILLIAMS: In fact, Mueller is a Republican, and the guy who appointed him, Rosenstein, was a Republican.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I thought that was your last point.
WILLIAMS: I'll tell you the last point. The last point is that Giuliani is really trying to make this a contest of public opinion, right? So, it's all about -- it's not about the law. He says when we get a report coming from the Mueller investigation. Now, it looks like that's likely to come in September before the midterms. Oh, well then, it's up to the public to say, oh, ignore it. And he has -- what's the president's rating among Republicans now? High 70's or 80's.
PERINO: Eighty seven.
WILLIAMS: Right. So, it's near record numbers because in this current local environment if you're a Republican, well, forget if you're a moderate, you've got to be a Trump Republican, and anything that the king says.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: . you've got to.
GUTFELD: Never mind the fact that we might be entering a historic stage with North Korea, we've got low unemployment, we have more jobs.
WILLIAMS: Oh, you want to talk about something else.
GUTFELD: Let's just talk about how it's Trump.
GUILFOYLE: Because last time I read the constitution, the president, and just like any of us, has a right to defend himself, his campaign, his family, against these false accusations. That's what makes this country great.
WILLIAMS: Well, let's see if it's false. Maybe it's not false.
GUILFOYLE: We'll get the results of that. President Trump keeps the pressure on Kim Jong-un to denuclearize ahead of the North Korea summit. All the latest, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Welcome back. President Trump saying he, quote, certainly, end quote, would invite North Korean leader Kim Jong-un to the U.S. if the high-stakes summit in Singapore goes well. But that's not the only news the president is making about the upcoming nuclear talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don't think I have to prepare very much. It's about attitude. It's about willingness to get things done. This will not be just a photo op. They have to de-nuke. If they don't denuclearize, that will not be acceptable. We cannot take sanctions off. The sanctions are extraordinarily powerful.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Secretary of State Pompeo announcing today that Kim Jong-un has personally told him he is prepared to denuclearize. But, I've to go to Jesse, because, Jesse, you are my inside man for all things Trump.
GUILFOYLE: Or rocket man? Yes, that's also his area of expertise.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
WATTERS: Thank you, Kimberly.
WILLIAMS: Wait, he and Dennis Rodman know Kim Jong-un first?
WATTERS: Yeah, the worm and I went over there last year. It was off the record. You didn't hear about it.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
WATTERS: What's the question, Juan?
WILLIAMS: Wow, I'm stunned. OK. Well, anyway, so I see the President there, Jesse, and he says I don't need to prepare for what would be the biggest diplomatic meeting in his tenure. How can that be?
WATTERS: Well, remember what he said about the first debate, you know, I'm not really preparing. I don't need to cram. And then he left a lot on the table. So, I hope that's a lot of bluster. And he is kind of brushing up on what he needs to brush up on. But I understand where he's coming from, because it's a very clear strategy. It's either you're going to denuclearize or the sanctions will remain and they'll get ratcheted up. And you don't really have to prep that hard, but he will. And I'm sure he'll do it on the plane ride over there.
But, Pompeo, I mean, it's a pretty startling announcement to hear that Kim has actually told him verbally that that is his goal, to denuclearize. So, I'm really glad to hear that. And he told Dennis Rodman that, in not so many words as well. So, it looks like it's consistent. We talked about the other day, you know, we're trying to lure him in with the goodies and capitalism and America in Singapore, and that's why he's dangling the Mar- a-Lago summit out there. And that's pretty attractive for someone like him. He can go stuff his face.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: But you have a situation where Abe was here today. He's more of the hawk, Japanese prime minister. Then you have Moon in South Korea, who's more the dove. So, Trump is going to have to play both of those guys off each other. And then, China, who knows what they want? They might like North Korea's status quo. Because I don't know how they're going to feel with a bunch of American allies and, you know, capitalist democracies hovering right around their doorstep. So we'll see what happens.
WILLIAMS: So Abe was here, the Japanese prime minister --
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: -- Kimberly. And he was making the point to President Trump that you've got to deal with human rights. I think the Japanese have 12 citizens still being held by North Korea. Is that on the table or is that really just being nice to the visiting Japanese prime minister?
GUILFOYLE: No, I don't think -- I think he likes him. He has a really good relationship with him. He's spoken to him, probably, about 20 times, you know, since President Trump has become president. So this is a significant relationship that they have established. They get along very well, which is always helpful in terms of international diplomatic relations.
I think that he's being honest and forthright with him, and I think with somebody like, you know, President Trump who thinks out of the box, right, that's a businessman at heart, like Greg always says, from Queens, everything is on the table until he decides it's not.
WILLIAMS: So we don't know. We don't know.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, but that's part of the mystery of the negotiation, is that they're always left a little bit off-balance, because they're not entirely sure, because he could agree or --
WATTERS: Obama, I think, tied the hostages to the Iran deal a little bit.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WATTERS: When the cash went over, those hostages came back the same day.
WILLIAMS: Well, I don't want to set any high bars --
WATTERS: Not all of them.
WILLIAMS: Yes. But Dana, this comes to an interesting point. The Democrats sent a letter, Schumer and some of his followers, to President Trump today, and it said, "Unless you are able to verify and unless you have Kim Jong-un dismantling his weapons, what is this about?"
PERINO: Well, but that is what it's -- that is exactly what Pompeo and President Trump reiterated today. I understand that Democrats want to be on record.
Senator Warren was on "The Daily Briefing" today, and she was very supportive of President Trump, saying, "Well, like, again, we'll see what happens." But you know, cautiously optimistic and supportive.
I do want to point out one thing. So Abe is concerned about the Japanese people, worried about these Japanese hostages or people who are being held in North Korea.
At the very end of the press conference today after the questions were all asked, the president said, "I just want to take a moment." And he mentioned Otto Warmbier and the family and the other three hostages. And I'm not positive, but I have a feeling that might've been a strategic move, because Kim Jong-un and his people are analyzing all of this. And if they think that it would help them to get the president to give them more, because the Japanese would be more satisfied with whatever deal is coming if they got their people back, as well, I think that it might've been a little bit of a signal.
GUILFOYLE: A hundred percent.
WILLIAMS: That sounds great. So Greg, the hard one -- hard question comes for you.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Because go back to our friend Rudy Giuliani.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: And Rudy says that Kim Jong-un, Little Rocket Man, right, Kimberly? And your friend, Jesse, has been -- is on his knees and begging, begging. What kind of -- so Dana is talking about signals. What kind of signal is this?
GUTFELD: This is the most -- I think the most important thing that was said at this table is what -- surprisingly what Dana said. No, I'm kidding. I'm joking.
GUILFOYLE: Great point journal.
GUTFELD: No. The North Koreans are analyzing --
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: -- everything, and they're not -- they're not just analyzing the White House. They are analyzing the press and how the press presents this.
GUILFOYLE: And this show.
GUTFELD: No. You -- I believe that they watch everything. Someone has got to put a sock in Giuliani's mouth. Because the fact is, he's kicking over a sand castle here. There's been a lot of stuff being built that could happen and could lead to something historic, and you're going around and you're saying this kind of junk. It undermines the progress that's set this table, because this table is a process. It's about dealing with the client. It's about having respect. Even if you think he's a bad egg, you've got to at least work it towards a solution.
If North Korea works, it points to an interesting future. Could be a domino effect. It could be the next -- it could be Iran is next. Maybe Venezuela. I think Iran is probably next up. You have to see a certain kind of thought going on.
The barrier to all of this, the belief that you could end up like Libya. And that's the thing, is like what Trump is trying to say in making clear, that's not what we want. This is not about a regime change. This is about a reduced threat. In return for the reduced threat, you get a seat at the most plentiful table on earth. And that's why it's important about the messages.
PERINO: And that -- that was the thing that when John Bolton talks about the Libya model --
GUTFELD: Right.
PERINO: -- it wasn't the later Libya model. It was the initial Libya model.
GUTFELD: Right.
PERINO: Which is that he gave up his chemical --
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: -- and nuclear ambitions because of what happened to Saddam Hussein.
GUTFELD: Right. And then what happened is --
PERINO: And then later on there was the Arab Spring.
GUTFELD: Yes. And you've got to make sure that that doesn't -- you've got to -- these people have to understand that's not what we're doing.
WILLIAMS: Hey, Rudy -- Rudy --
PERINO: Can I add one thing?
WILLIAMS: Oh, sure. Go ahead.
PERINO: Just to Greg's point about how they are analyzing everything. The -- I will always look at "The Wall Street Journal" trending stories. The No. 1 story for three days in a row has been Giuliani's comments that Kim Jong-un was begging on his knees for the summit to take place. So if "The Wall Street Journal" makes it to Pyongyang, they'll see it.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: By the way, Rudy, it wasn't me. It wasn't -- I didn't say put a sock in your mouth. Wasn't me.
GUTFELD: I did. I did, because it's for the good of the world. For the good of the world?
WILLIAMS: OK. Oh, yes, and maybe, you know, how about Spygate was made up?
GUILFOYLE: My God.
WILLIAMS: We could use that one too, Rudy.
GUILFOYLE: I think they're dangling the Mar-a-Lago thing, too. He wants to come here. He loves Dennis Rodman. He loves U.S. --
PERINO: But I think I would actually have -- I would have a hard time with that if this is a guy who is so evil. And I know human rights isn't on the table on Tuesday, but it better be.
WILLIAMS: All right. Before the control room sends me to North Korea, Google caves to pressure from its employees. Is the tech giant putting political correctness before a national security? A Gregory monologue, next.
GUTFELD: That was like that story in "The Daily Beast."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Wow.
GUTFELD: Do a Google search for callow jerkwads and what do you find? Google itself.
We told you how thousands of their employees signed a letter protesting Google's work with Project Maven, an effort to make our drones more precise so civilian lives are spared. It's a good thing. Now Google has pulled out of the project under pressure from those workers. Apparently, doing anything connected to our military, which protects the lives of those same pasty workers at Google, is just bad for their brand.
But Google, you know what's bad for your brand? You. Your motto used to be "Don't be evil." But isn't what you just did kind of the opposite? And yet, while deciding not to help our military with their A.I., you invest fortunes in other countries' A.I. What do you think they're going to do with that? D-Day being yesterday, that's the opposite of good timing.
Now, I'm not going to call you traitorous. You're just scared. You're scared because, in this day and age, among your peers, helping Uncle Sam is helping the oppressor. Oh, you love the wealth but now dismiss those who enable and protect it. How removed you've become from the ideas your parents and their parents and their parents fought for.
The decision Google made is one, of course, that they can make. But it's foolish and harmful. As drones become an inevitable part of the defenses, and our enemies' offenses, Google made a choice. Maybe we should do the same.
Dana, it drives me crazy. There's -- it's hard to -- like, you can't just say, "I'm no longer using Google."
PERINO: Right.
GUTFELD: Because then all of a sudden, I'm going to Google other options.
PERINO: And Bing pops up.
GUTFELD: Bing. Does Bing still work?
PERINO: I don't know.
WATTERS: I use Ask Jeeves. Does anybody still use that?
GUTFELD: I use Alta Vista Digital.
GUILFOYLE: Little different. Yes.
PERINO: And Google is such -- it's such a huge company. It's not just a search engine.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: What's interesting about this is that Eric Schmidt, the former chairman -- he is on the Defense Intelligence Advisory Board.
GUTFELD: He wouldn't have -- he wouldn't have -- he would have stuck with it.
PERINO: Well, because he is very concerned about, especially with China, for example, and technological innovations and what it could do to our future. And if you want to be safe and protected in America, then you should probably help our military.
GUTFELD: This is what gets -- because, like, Schmidt is no longer there. Correct? And he would -- they're selling stuff to China. Or they're working with China, Google. Right?
WATTERS: Yes. I'm afraid to criticize Google, because they might leak my search history, and then I'm toast. But I will say --
GUILFOYLE: Why did you just say that out loud?
WATTERS: I will say it's a weasel move. Because you're helping the country offensively, because you reduce civilian casualties.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WATTERS: And then defensively, because the terrorists are getting access to drone technologies. So you want to defend them against that.
America, in a sick way, is almost too safe. Do you remember World War I, World War II, the threats were everywhere. We had domestic attacks. People were getting shipped overseas to fight for our country. We're so far removed from that, we don't have the sense of patriotism and nationalism that we used to. We can afford to, you know, let these things lie and not protect the nation the way it used to be protected.
GUILFOYLE: We need to be more worried about clear and present danger, is what you're saying --
WATTERS: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: -- in terms of an imminent threat or, actually, more on high alert about something to say, "You know what? We really do want to do whatever it takes to keep ourselves safe," like after 9/11 --
WATTERS: We had that after 911.
GUILFOYLE: -- where people are willing -- yes, they have the wherewithal to be able to say, "You know what? I am open to this and I want to make sure this does not happen again."
So then there runs the risk of time's, you know, passing, maybe people become a little bit complacent and you feel a little bit too safe.
WATTERS: Right. Wake-up call, then.
GUTFELD: Juan, it's obviously -- they're a business. We talk about businesses can do whatever they want. The NFL can do what they want. Google can do what they want. But the nature of this technology, by its very precision, is designed to reduce collateral damage.
GUILFOYLE: Correct.
GUTFELD: So what could be there argument other than they want to appear PC and not be seen working with the --
WILLIAMS: No, in fact I'm sort of surprised about your reaction to this. Because if I told you that I was going to invent something that allowed for constant surveillance by artificial intelligence, I think generally, Greg would say no, that's --
GUTFELD: I would be for it.
WILLIAMS: Constant surveillance.
GUTFELD: Are you kidding me? I'd have drones in my house if I could.
WILLIAMS: Oh, is that right?
GUTFELD: You bet. I might already.
GUILFOYLE: Little drone man. Little drone man. Yes.
WILLIAMS: You've got to be nice. You've got to be nice to him.
GUILFOYLE: That is nice.
WILLIAMS: That was nice?
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: We don't want to see you get mad at him.
OK. But I'm just saying when you think about the idea that you are empowering drones to have the kind of facial recognition, body motion recognition --
GUTFELD: Right.
WILLIAMS: You think wait a second. Where is privacy? Where are my rights? Where are my protections as an individual?
So you can say, this would make our drones more effective. But I think that it starts really, how would you say, escalating. And the bad guys get it and suddenly, we're in trouble, too.
That's why I think -- so you ask me, because I'm a big --
GUTFELD: It's about military.
WILLIAMS: Well, if it's about military, I'm on your side, because I want our military to be strong. But I don't think that everything should be in the military's hands, Greg. I don't think that.
GUTFELD: The only thing is, it's going to be in somebody else's hands.
PERINO: It's in the Chinese military's hands.
WILLIAMS: They don't have that.
GUTFELD: But they will.
WILLIAMS: Your point is perspectively that --
GUILFOYLE: It's illogical. It's illogical.
PERINO: I can't believe they caved to 4,000 employees.
GUILFOYLE: I agree. Come on.
GUTFELD: Or maybe they should return to the caves. Am I right? There's no Google in caves. I don't even know what that means.
WATTERS: Hieroglyphics.
GUILFOYLE: There's no Wi-Fi.
GUTFELD: There's no Wi-Fi in caves. There's a bumper sticker. Or a T- shirt.
Finally, real evidence of collusion but maybe not exactly what the left was looking for. The video next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: It's time now for "Watters' World." Sort of.
Some politicians have been mocked for their use of H2O. Remember Marco Rubio's infamous parched moment during the State of the Union response.
GUILFOYLE: Aww. Poor Marco Rubio.
WATTERS: President Trump also taking heat for some of his --
GUTFELD: Love that.
WATTERS: -- thirst-quenching ways, like when he drank from a Fiji bottle and when he used two hands to use a glass of water.
Now a new Watergate is going viral. Watch as Vice President Pence apparently mimics President Trump, as they both inexplicably move their water bottles off the table at yesterday's FEMA meeting. That's what we call real collusion.
So what the heck is going on here, Greg?
GUTFELD: All right. So I'm not going to blame you for this, but the word "inexplicably" is in there. It's in every single story about this. If you look it up, it's in headlines. "Inexplicably," "hilariously."
I accuse the people that are covering this story of what they're accusing Pence of doing.
GUILFOYLE: Collusion.
GUTFELD: Look -- they're saying, look at Pence copying Trump. Meanwhile, every headline and everything written is actually -- they're copying. So I call that -- I called them the real colluders.
WATTERS: You understand, though. I mean, he's getting a lot of photographs taken of him, Dana. Maybe he just doesn't a big ugly plastic Poland Spring water bottle in front of him.
PERINO: Yes, maybe he -- I don't know. It's pretty funny. It's like he doesn't even miss a beat. He sees it, he just moves it.
WATTERS: That's right. Juan, you probably have a problem with this, right?
WILLIAMS: I think it's silly. But I mean, you know -- you know what's true, though, is mimicry. So you know, if you're the big dog and you do something and, you know, you're a loyal assistant, you know? Who's Deputy Dog's assistant there? I don't know. Yogi and Boo-Boo. Maybe Boo-Boo says, "Hey, I've got to do what Yogi just did."
GUILFOYLE: I love Boo-Boo.
WILLIAMS: You love Boo-Boo?
GUILFOYLE: I do. Did you also notice that FLOTUS and POTUS both have the little blue caps, and everyone else has white caps. So they have their water separated from everyone else.
GUTFELD: Interesting.
WATTERS: That's very cute.
GUILFOYLE: Everyone else is just missing.
PERINO: Eagle-Eye Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, winning it on the details.
PERINO: Winning at detective (ph).
WATTERS: Yes, you're like the North Koreans, analyzing every little move.
GUILFOYLE: Well, my name is Kim.
PERINO: What does that mean? What does that mean?
GUTFELD: The other Kim.
GUILFOYLE: Little Kim, yes.
WILLIAMS: You're the killer Kim.
GUILFOYLE: That's true.
WATTERS: Ever seen the president, if he gets down at the table and goes like this. He pushes everything out, spreads it all out, moves it around. To establish dominance, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Is that right?
GUILFOYLE: Are you copying that?
WATTERS: You want to expand your space. And also, since he has all these wild gesticulations --
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
WATTERS: -- he doesn't knock things over. He's got to make room.
GUILFOYLE: Don't knock Dana in the nose.
GUTFELD: Who does that remind you of?
GUILFOYLE: You.
WATTERS: Me? I never knocked over water.
WILLIAMS: When you are talking about manspread (ph), I thought we were going to get into men's rooms.
GUILFOYLE: Eww. That's it. Control room.
WATTERS: On that note, "One More Thing" up next.
GUTFELD: Megan (ph), you were ten seconds --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: It's time for "One More Thing." That was probably the best commercial break in a long, long time. Very good.
GUTFELD: I spiked your water.
PERINO: Pull it together. I'm going to tell you my "One More Thing."
OK. Today, Oklahoma's Rogers State University unveiled their Wall That Heals. It's a traveling replica of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial from Washington, D.C. The wall was installed by veterans and volunteers over the last couple of days, headed by the Oklahoma Military Academy Alumni Association.
The exhibit memorializes the 58,000 men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice during the Vietnam War. The exhibit opened this afternoon, and it's going to remain open around the clock until Sunday, June 10, at noon. The education center allows visitors to locate specific veteran's names on on the wall while also providing meaningful information about the war and the memorial. So if you're anywhere near Claremore, Oklahoma, I encourage you to visit this amazing tribute.
GUILFOYLE: So great.
PERINO: All right. Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, talk about a night at the ballpark. In Boston last night, it was a doubleheader of oddities.
Take a look. First this video of a fan running on the field at Fenway. It wasn't the fan being on the field that drew a roar from the crowd. It was the blindside hit from the security guard that took him out.
But that's not all. In the seventh inning, the game was stopped, because fans were doing the wave with cell phone lights that were distracting Detroit's hitters. Just another night at the opera in Boston.
GUTFELD: It was baseball, though, not opera.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, Greg.
PERINO: Jesse.
GUILFOYLE: Keen observer.
WATTERS: Everybody, buckle up. We've got some great footage for you from Ohio.
Look at this guy on camera. He doesn't feel like hitting that traffic jam so he reverses it all the way off the off-ramp all the way back there. Back it up. And avoids traffic, totally legal move. And actually gets away with it. Can you believe that?
PERINO: He got away with it?
WATTERS: He got away with that. And --
GUTFELD: Some people.
WATTERS: Some people can get away with anything. They think it's J.R. Smith, Juan. He went the wrong way.
WILLIAMS: Is that it?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.
GUTFELD: Oh, my God.
PERINO: I think that's a football reference?
WATTERS: That's a basketball reference.
GUILFOYLE: That's basketball. Close enough.
PERINO: Close. That was very close. Greg.
GUTFELD: All right. I give you this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAPHIC: Greg's Thirsty Squirrel News
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: "Greg's Thirsty Squirrel News."
GUILFOYLE: Of course.
GUTFELD: Let's go to the tape. I want you to check out this squirrel. Check out how thirsty he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SQUIRREL DRINKS FROM WATER BOTTLE IN A PURSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Why is the squirrel thirsty, you ask? I'll tell you are. That squirrels in the Grand Canyon. And when you're a squirrel, it's a really grand canyon. It's a lot bigger for him than it is for us. The average human is 60 times larger than a squirrel. I made that up. But the Grand Canyon is 60 times larger for this little fellow.
PERINO: You know how you said that they're not supposed to show people running on the field. You're not supposed to show this either. This is really, really bad.
WATTERS: That's nuts.
PERINO: Visitors at the Grand Canyon, do not feed the animals. Do not water the animals.
GUTFELD: Let them die, is what Dana is saying. Let them die.
PERINO: Let nature run its course. If they can't find water.
GUTFELD: What kind of monster are you? Let nature run its course?
WILLIAMS: Dana is right, you know. People get hurt. People get bitten. So then you'll come back to you, Greg.
GUILFOYLE: By a squirrel?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
PERINO: Do you want rabies from a squirrel? No.
All right. K.G.
GUILFOYLE: Well, perhaps not.
OK, well, this is super adorable. So this is a photo op that was 90 years in the making. Look at that little cutie patootie.
The original Gerber baby poses with the current Gerber baby in this photo you see. And Lucas Warren is the new Gerber baby. And we brought you this story back to you in February. It made headlines when he became the first Gerber baby with Down syndrome. And now he is stealing the show again, but he's brought a friend.
And take a look at her. That's Ann Turner Cook, the original Gerber baby, posing with him in an adorable photo. It's gone viral. Now, remember, she's now 91. But she was four months old in 1927 when a family friend made the charcoal sketch of her and she was chosen to be, in 1931, the baby Gerber, which is just the cutest --
PERINO: And she never got a lot of attention for that --
GUILFOYLE: No.
PERINO: -- like, through her life. It was only more recently.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. They were -- the Warren family was vacationing near Cook, and then they asked her to set it up.
PERINO: I love.
GUILFOYLE: How cute is that?
PERINO: A very fun show. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next. Shannon, I apologize. I don't have a rhyme. Over to you.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS: Great to see you anyway, Dana. Thank you.
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