This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," September 23, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight, exactly 72 hours from now, the nation will witness a moment that could determine the presidency. As Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton square off for the very first time in a debate that analysts suggest could be the biggest in history.
Welcome to "The Kelly File" everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. In 2012 some 67 million Americans watched Mitt Romney square off against Barack Obama. Monday night audience could so well past that. Analysts suggest it could top 100 million viewers, no pressure Lester and become one of the most viewed political events in the history of television. Holy Moly. Both candidates are now deep in debate prep.
But Mr. Trump will hold a rally in Virginia tomorrow and we're also hearing that Hillary Clinton plans to head to Charlotte, North Carolina on Sunday where violent riots have raged over the police involved shooting of a black man there earlier this week. We'll have more on that in a moment.
But first, to the main event. The presidential debate. Charles Krauthammer, Chris Stirewalt and Howie Kurtz are with me in a minute to discuss what's at stake.
Mark McKinnon, now The Circus is here with some behind the scenes look at the campaigns and debate prep. And we're look at the latest numbers with Larry Sabato who has research on how the big showdown could move the polls.
But we begin tonight with campaign Carl Cameron reporting from Trump Tower in New York City. Carl?
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Megyn. Both candidates are intensively preparing for this debate. They know that it has a great potential to be a decisive moment in the election. And if there's a huge moment, it could virtually decide it, notwithstanding the two other presidential and vice presidential debates that follow it. They are preparing quite differently. Hillary Clinton has been working in mock debates with a sparring partner. No one knows who that is. It's very tight secret. She's been working very hard to memorize a whole series of some of Trump's more colorful and what she considers to be objectionable comments.
Donald Trump is not working with a mock debate or a sparring partner. He's got a steady stream of advisers working with him. And he began his debate prep really right after the Republican National Convention when they began fairly regular Sunday afternoon meetings in New Jersey, with a team of debate advisors. Most notably in it, Rudy Giuliani seems to have become a really important adviser in this process.
And one of the things that Trump has been told to do by all of his team is to focus on policy answers that are tight, that are aspirational, talking about what his goals and priorities will be but not to get bogged down too much in details. If he can avoid any missteps, it has the opportunity to be a huge achievement for him since the expectations are low and because Hillary Clinton has been prepping so intensively. Expectations for her are pretty high -- Megyn.
KELLY: Carl, thank you. Carl mentioned Rudy Giuliani and he's here shortly.
But right now, we want to bring in our panel. Charles Krauthammer, a Fox News contributor and syndicated columnist. Chris Stirewalt, our Fox News digital politics editor and Howie Kurtz, host of "MediaBuzz" on FNC. Great to see you all.
And so, when you see how these two are preparing to go against each other, it's like two silver back gorillas. Yes. They're there. Studying each other and it's like a modern warfare situation where they're saying Trump is studying her body language and verbal tics getting ready to exploit weaknesses based on a statistical analysis of videos from 16 years' worth of Clinton's debates. This is according to Politico. They've identified her tells, words, phrases or gestures she uses when he's unsure of an answer or trying to deflect and he is ready to pounce if it happens.
Let me start with you on that, Charles. Could be pretty effective.
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's insane over preparation. You stuff your head with that, you won't be able to speak. It's like, you know, the young rookie who goes up to the plate and has learned every idiosyncrasy of the picture to the point where his mind stops working. And then some happy-go-lucky guy shows up who has been drinking all night and just acts on instinct. Now Trump is the one who gets the reputation for being the happy-go-lucky guy who doesn't prepare and I think that's part of that is spin. I mean, there is so much spin here.
KELLY: He's preparing.
KRAUTHAMMER: You know, you can really get the vertigo. And there's a pre- debate spin of the post-debate stuff that's going to happen. We're deep into that. I'm not sure I believe anything coming out of anybody's camp. It's all going to be -- we're going to see what we're going to see and we'll do the spinning afterwards.
KELLY: Uh-hm. One of the things she needs to watch out for is what we saw from her this week, Stirewalt where for some reason she sometimes resorts to screaming her point and here is an example of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Now having said all this, why aren't I 50 points ahead, you might ask. Well, the choice for working families has never been clearer. I need your help to get Donald Trump's record out to everybody. Nobody should be fooled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Yes. I mean --
KELLY: Nobody should be doing that.
STIREWALT: I wonder why you're not 50 points ahead. Golly gosh. You sound like an enraged (INAUDIBLE). I don't know why you're just not winning all of the points. Hillary Clinton struggles when they tell her -- this is the terrible advice that Hillary Clinton gets over and over and over again. Be yourself. Be yourself. No, no, not like that. Not like that. Not like -- no, exactly. Be yourself and they say, actually we don't like it. Be somebody else.
STIREWALT: And the problem for her is, I don't know that she knows anymore who her real self is.
KELLY: That person we saw at the Democratic National Convention worked for her.
STIREWALT: Worked for her.
KELLY: The screaming is a different story. But, you know, obviously Howie, Trump has got a lot of weaknesses she can exploit as well, including, you know, the number of controversies he's created. And we heard Carl Cameron report that she's studying his objectionable comments which, you know, it's going to take her from now until the next election but she's probably going to zero in, judging from the campaign ad she just released today on among other things, his comments about women. Here's a flavor of what he just released.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'd look her right in that fat ugly face of hers, she's a slob. She ate like a pig.
A person who is flat chested is very hard to be a ten. Does she have a good body? No. Does she have a fat (bleep), absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you treat women with respect?
TRUMP: I can't say that either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Is this a president we want for or daughters, Howie?
HOWIE KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": I don't think Hillary Clinton is going to bring up the flat chests remark. And it sounds like the shrinks are in charges of this debate.
KELLY: You don't think he's going to say to him? This is a man who has referred to women as fat pigs and dogs and slobs?
KURTZ: Oh, she may say a cleaned up version of that, sure. Look, the pressure is on Trump for this reason. He's the X factor, he is the reality show guy who wants to be put in charge of the nuclear codes. And this whole campaign -- let's face it, has turned on his personality, and his temperament and his insults and he has to use these debates to magically pass the commander-in-chief threshold. Now, Hillary Clinton is the boring but dependable bureaucrats, she's a government lifer, she's lived in the White House, she knows the -- back and forth. The bar for her is to connect with voters who are either don't like her, tired of her, weary of her and also to deal with the honesty and trustworthy question that has dogged her throughout this campaign.
KELLY: That's tough to do in a debate setting. You know, that's more of a press conference situation you can sort of try to prove to people that you're honest report is coming. Charles, what do you see as his biggest risk going into Monday night?
KRAUTHAMMER: Look, I think he's got the biggest opportunity because he's behind not by as much as he was, but he is behind. So he needs to do well. On the other hand, he's got the low bar, an absurdly low bar and Hillary has done this. Because she has reproduced the appalling stuff he's said in all of those ads. She's portrayed him as a guy who can't be allowed near the White House so that all he has to do is to show up and not froth at the mouth and appear reasonably normal, charming would be a splendid bonus and he wins.
So it's been set up in a way, and I think he plays into it, where he doesn't have a lot that he has to do, simply has to control himself for 90 minutes. Now with him, that could be a challenge. But nonetheless, you know, for other folks, that generally is okay. Ninety minutes, I'm sure Stirewalt or Howie can pull it off if they try.
KELLY: Yes. I don't know. Just a five-minute segment on "The Kelly File." But I want to ask you this because Trump has gotten into trouble in the past for being too, I am the only one who can fix it, it's all about me, I will make America great, I, I, I like an imperial presidency which conservatives believe we're just getting out of, right?
And this place into something that is getting some attention today online. It comes from a frontline documentary that is going to come out next week involving many people talking about Trump including one of the celebrity Apprentice, to the regular Apprentice contestants. Omarosa. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAROSA MANIGAULT, THE APPRENTICE FORMER CONTESTANT: Every critic, every retractor will have to bow down to President Trump. It's everyone who ever doubted Donald, whoever disagreed, whoever challenged him. It's the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: I don't know about that. But your thoughts about how that narrative, that believe and that messaging from Trump himself about, it's me, it's all about me could endanger him on Monday.
STIREWALT: We come together at a time of crises. The country is at the abyss and only I can fix it. These are dark days for America. And you bet. You're going to hear Trump, the law and order, our cities are burning. America is at the edge, we're falling apart, we're being picked apart by our adversaries and that we need a strong man, emphasis on the man part probably, to take care of America at this dreadful hour.
KELLY: Strength works for him. Strength works but just too much imperialism maybe not.
STIREWALT: Right. And especially when Hillary Clinton sticks it up his nose.
KELLY: Go ahead, Charles.
STIREWALT: The flip side to painting the situation today as apocalyptic is to paint himself as messianic. You remember in the acceptance speech he gave in Cleveland, he said, he didn't say I'm going to reduce crime and violence. He said I'm going to abolish it. Now nobody has done that going back to King Tut. They've all tried it and I don't think any of them have ever promised to abolish crime and evil in the world. He did it in a written state.
KELLY: This is the kind of fact checking that the American people want to see on the spot from Lester Holt. I hope he's watching this.
STIREWALT: That is all of that psychiatric training.
KELLY: Go ahead, Howie.
KURTZ: Remember Trump has more TV experience than anybody who has ever run for president. I don't think he'll be asking people to bow down. It reminds me of Reagan in 1980, and that painted as a dangerous cowboy, needed to come out and won that election against Jimmy Carter by reassuring the country that he could handle the job.
KURTZ: I wouldn't underestimate Donald Trump's ability to adjust his debating style for this Monday's debate.
KELLY: Before I let you go, I have to get this in real quickly, Ted Cruz today finally reversed himself and said, he's endorsing Donald Trump notwithstanding this expression of his feelings about Trump on May 3rd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to tell you what I really think about him. This man is a pathological liar. The man cannot tell the truth but he combines it with being a narcissist. Everything in Donald's world is about Donald. Morality does not exist for him. Donald will betray his supporters on every issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Charles, thoughts on that.
KRAUTHAMMER: Yes. And that's why we need him in the White House.
That's the sequitur that completes that argument.
KELLY: It's great to see all of you. Looking forward to Monday night.
KURTZ: Great to see you.
STIREWALT: You bet.
KELLY: Politicians are fun. Well my next guest believes this may be the most important debate in U.S. history. The campaigns have given him unprecedented access and here's a sneak peek from this week's episode of Showtime's ground breaking documentary series "The Circus."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's nothing more exciting, more competitive or more unpredictable than a presidential campaign in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayhem, madness, chaos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you can't get excited to see how this thing is going to end, you should go to your doctor and get a physical.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is nothing like rehearsing report. It's happened all throughout this year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we are sprinting, just a few weeks to go. This is the closest an American women has ever been to the White House.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: When there are no ceilings, the
sky is the limit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most important thing is confidence. Trump is not lacking in that department. Something is going to have to give here.
TRUMP: We will make America great again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think the first debate will be the most watched television event in history and probably the single greatest driver of the outcome of this election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, Mark McKinnon, co-creator and co-host of "The Circus" on Showtime. He also served as chief media advisor to President Georg W. Bush. Great to see you, Mark. So it's --
MARK MCKINNON, "THE CIRCUS" CO-HOST: I'm so excited about this debate.
KELLY: I'm so excited about it too. And why? I mean, like we just saw in that clip, this is going to be like nothing we've ever seen before.
MCKINNON: Well, because the stakes are so high and this has been such an epic race and been so unstable, we really don't know the outcome of this election. I mean, every other election is pretty easy to predict what might happen. We have no idea in this election. We've been wrong so many times. And I'd really think that given the stakes are so high, if somebody wins this debate, perceived to have won it, they will probably won the election. The stakes are that high.
KELLY: And the unpredictability of Trump is playing a huge role. You know, he calls himself the ratings king. He's right about that. Trump rates on a normal night. But on a night like this with somebody who is such an unpredictable television character, you tell me whether, you know, anything could happen.
MCKINNON: Well, anything could happen. And he knows that. I mean he's the guy who understands television, understands drama. So you can surely count on that he's going to bring out some surprises during the debate. I think that he's got the easier task in this debate. Number one obviously is the expectations game which is so low for him. The other thing is that these two candidates both have problems. His problem is that people perceive that he might have a temperament problem. Her problem is that people see her as not being honest or trustworthy.
MCKINNON: He can fix that problem in a debate. It's harder to fix hers in a debate. So, all he has to do is really get through the debate without coming off the chain and it will go a long way toward people just looking at him saying, okay, I can see him as president.
KELLY: So, as the guy who used to do this for a living, what would be your main message to him, keep your cool?
MCKINNON: Oh, yes, absolutely. Keep your cool. Because all he has to do is qualify. What she has to do is disqualify. And I assure you that she's going to use 90 minutes to prosecute him over and over and over again thinking that at some point he's going to unwind and come after her and that's when she knows she's got him.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And she's better have a glutens or something like that before she goes out there because there's no commercial breaks.
MCKINNON: I think she's going to bring -- they're game players, both of them. And I think that she's going to be very well-prepared obviously. And she's done a lot of debates and he's done a lot of television. So bring those two together, it's going to be spectacular.
KELLY: We're going to be together, Mark. I'll see you on Monday.
MCKINNON: Kick it hard. See you Monday.
KELLY: Kick it. Love that.
KELLY: So, we've seen presidential debates produce big polling swings in four of the last five elections. And Larry Sabato is next on what to watch for this time.
Plus, the city of Charlotte bracing for a fourth straight night of protests as we get some major new evidence in the death of Keith Scott, a video taken by his wife shows the moments before during and after the shooting. But who does this help? And what we're now learning about Mr. Scott. Rudy Giuliani is here along with Sheriff David Clark on what the new video shows and why some folks think they have spotted a game changer in one of the shots.
KELLY: Breaking tonight, 46 days until the election. Three days until the first debate and two national polls showing Hillary Clinton tracking slightly ahead of Donald Trump tonight. First in Wednesday's "Wall Street Journal" poll, Mrs. Clinton is up by six points in a four-way race. Then today from Marist, Mrs. Clinton again up by six points. But based on some numbers we pulled from the last several debates, that could all change after Monday night.
Joining me now on that is the director of UVA's Center for Politics Larry Sabato. Larry, good to see you. So, just a word on the polling. So did that show a trend in her favor or does that show a trend in Trump's favor. Another words, was she up more in those polls? What are you seeing?
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UVA'S CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, look, I look at the polling averages, Megyn. I'm a broken record on this because, you know, in this election if you don't like the polls, they kind of remind me of the British weather.
SABATO: If you don't like it, wait an hour and it will change. And the same is true with the polls. So, you got to go with the averages. She's up about three or four. As you note within things can change once people see the debates. And, you know, I want to analyze it after I see it.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Yes. Because we're seeing just across the swing states a tightening, I mean, at least it appears. Colorado they're tied right now. She was up by ten. Michigan she's up by four. She was up by 10. New Hampshire, she's up by five, she was up by 9.3. So, there's definitely been a tightening going into this debate and the question for you is, whether these debates will matter. Because we go back to the first debate four years ago, Mitt Romney was wildly believed even by President Obama to have cleaned President Obama's clock. What difference did it make?
SABATO: In the long run absolutely nothing. And Megyn, you just hit on the critical point that people are ignoring in looking at the debates. What has happened with only one exception that I'll mention, but what has happened in some of these past debates, most of these past debates, they move the needle. One, two, three, four points in somebody's direction and the debate effects dissipate within a week or ten days.
KELLY: That's all they get?
SABATO: Basically, they get a week or ten days. The exception was Ronald Reagan in 1980 but that's because the only debate was held a week ahead of the election.
KELLY: All right.
SABATO: There was a time for it to dissipate.
KELLY: What is the challenge to Trump here? Because we only saw him with four people. Never seen him go, you know, one on one. I don't think he's ever done a debate one on one and he had a much different dynamic in the primary process.
SABATO: Yes. In the primaries, he could hang back and let the other 16 candidates debate policy. He didn't have to have a command of the facts about many of those policies. He may be put on the spot by Hillary Clinton and the moderator. I suspect it is going to happen. It's 90 minutes. So you have to know something to answer some of these questions. We'll see how he does. Obviously there are problems for both candidates over 90 minutes.
KELLY: Well, exactly. Because she's never faced somebody like Donald Trump, with all due respect, that Martin O'Malley. I mean, this is going to be unlike anything she's ever experienced.
SABATO: Yes, even Bernie Sanders. I don't think Donald Trump is going to say, I'm tired of hearing about your damn e-mails.
KELLY: I think you're right about that.
SABATO: I suspect he's going to be adding a lot about her emails during the course of that debate.
KELLY: It's incredible. I know that you're calling for fact-checking by the moderators. I have to say, she wants fact-checking of statements like this. If Trump says, Clinton supports open borders, Clinton wants to get rid of the Second Amendment. You tell me, that's absurd. That's not the moderator's job to say no, her position on open borders is this. That's an opinion, an argument a politician got to make on that stage.
SABATO: Yes. Essentially it's up to the other candidate to correct mistakes made by his or her opponent. The moderator in my view should intervene mainly to ensure that both candidates are getting approximately equal time. That's the moderator's job and also to stop candidates from interfering with one other's answers. You can't have people talking over one another. And I don't think most viewers like that.
KELLY: Agreed. Larry, great to see you.
SABATO: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: The audience can't say anything. Because they've got to be very quiet. We've got breaking news tonight out of Charlotte, North Carolina where protesters just shut down a part of a major highway running through the city. And moments, we will go live to this unfolding scene as the march grows louder again tonight.
Plus, we'll show you the big controversy that came out today with the new video. And what it shows in the moments after police shot Keith Scott in Charlotte. Rudy Giuliani is here on how this case is unfolding before Sheriff David Clark gives us his take on what's really going on in Charlotte, next.
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we have seen a protest in Charlotte growing louder in the last 20 minutes as controversy grows over new evidence in the case of Keith Scott. A video that was taken by Scott's wife and given to the media today shows the moments before, during and after her husband was shot. Although the entire exchange is not seen. You can hear police tell Scott to, quote, "Drop the gun" more than a dozen times before officers open fire. You don't see the fatal shots but this is a disturbing piece of tape. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don't shoot him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop your gun. Drop the (Bleep) gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He didn't do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun. Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI. He's not going to do anything to you guys. He just took his medicine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun. Let me get (Bleep) over here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't let them break the windows. Come on out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, don't do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith get out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keith, Keith, don't you do it. Don't you do it. Keith! Keith! Keith, don't you do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Bleep) Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? He better not be (Bleep) dead. He better not be (Bleep) dead. I know that (Bleep) much. I know that much he better not be dead. I'm not going to come near you. I'm going to record you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not coming near you. I'm going to record that he better be alive because -- you better be alive matter of fact. Yes, over here 9453 Lexington Court. The police officers just shot my husband and he better live.
He better live because he didn't do nothing to them. Ain't nobody touch nobody. They're all good. I know he better live. I know he better live. How about that? I'm not coming to you guys but he better live. He better live. You all hear this and you see this, right? He better live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn it off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He better live. I swear he better live. Yep. He better live. He better (Bleep) live. He better live. Where is -- he better (Bleep) live and I can't even leave the damn -- I ain't going nowhere. I'm in the same damn spot. That's okay. Did you all call the police? I mean did you all call the ambulance?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: There are questions about what we saw and what we did not see in that video and we'll get to those in a moment. But we want to check in now with Steve Harrigan live in Charlotte tonight. Steve?
STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the crowd has been marching here for about an hour. For a brief moment, about ten minutes, they took control of the highway that rings this city, Highway 277. Last night, they were stopped from doing so by the police. Tonight, they were able to do that. We have not seen any damage to property, any arrests or any violence between police and demonstrators so far.
For the second night in a row so far it's been peaceful. There was a real concern here that after that family's tape was released, that there would be greater numbers and possible violence. We are not seeing that. The crowd amounts to about 300 people, probably about 300 journalists as well. They've been chanting right now "let my people go." Earlier they were chanting "show the tapes, release the tapes."
Real pressure here to get those tapes released from the police dashboard and body cams. That's what they're calling for here. The big numbers that were anticipated after that release of the shooting not panning out so far and so far another night peaceful so far in Charlotte. Megyn, back to you.
KELLY: Steve, thank you. Back to Steve as news warrants (ph) tonight. Well with today's new evidence also come new questions as some folks suggest this videotape may disprove the police account of events. This is the image that was being circulated earlier this week. Showing what appears to be a handgun next to Keith Scott as he lay on the ground. You see it there? You can see Scott's shoes in white. Compare that now to the following image from the video released today by Mr. Scott's wife.
The picture from the video seems to show Scott's feet without any firearm nearby. But "The Kelly File" did some digging and found this image that appears to show one of the responding officers having walked past what looks like a pistol on the ground. You can see it here in the red circle before noticing it behind him and then taking a step back and then apparently standing over that item on the ground. The timing on this scene is unclear and "The Kelly File" has reached out to the agency in possession of the police videos, which as you heard have yet to be released.
One of the questions now is how and when did that weapon appear in that spot in the first place and why does this location in the videotape not appear to match the one in the still images we were originally shown earlier this week. Joining me now, Milwaukee County sheriff David Clarke. Sheriff, good to see you. We're not going to do, you know, "Forensic Files" here on "The Kelly File" but I do want to ask you, you know, there's a conspiracy theory and it's going around and did the cops plant the gun?
The man's -- Mr. Scott's fingerprints were reportedly found on it, his DNA, his blood. And on top of that, the police knew they were being filmed by the man's wife and there were several officers' right there. I mean, you tell me in your experience the likelihood of cops being so brazen as to plant a gun in those circumstances.
DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF: Well, Megyn highly unlikely. I don't know all the facts though I don't know what happened here. I haven't seen all of the evidence. You know, that's one of the problems with releasing videotapes is it's one piece of evidence that you don't know how it fits in conjunction with all of the witness statements including the officers and other evidence that exists.
I've investigated homicide. I've investigated police related shootings. I've supervised those scenes too. These are very complex and we have to wait to see the entire case, but I find it highly unlikely -- not impossible, highly unlikely that a gun was planted in that situation especially if the officers were wearing body cams. It would, you know, be kind of hard to do.
KELLY: What jumped out at you in that tape because you know, those who are questioning the police behavior according to the fact that she kept saying he's doesn't have a gun, he's got a TBI, I mean, traumatic brain injury, and he just took his medication?
CLARKE: Well, you know, that was her version of the events as she saw them unfold. But I heard some voices from what appeared to be police officers saying drop the gun. You know, we'll find out soon enough. Everybody wants this thing done, you know, within the half-hour that it happens on TV but if doesn't work that way so, I would caution everybody viewing tonight, don't rush to judgment and wait.
I know these things are very emotional, they're very difficult to have to deal with at the time and everything that's going on in the good city of Charlotte, but reasonableness will have to prevail. Calm will have to prevail. Cooler heads and leadership will be important here until we get this thing sorted out.
KELLY: Now, some are pushing to change the rules that police have to live by when they're out in the field. We heard Richard Fowler say on air (ph) just the other day, perhaps the policies need to be changed if all of these shootings are "in policy." There was a woman with an article on "Huffington Post," Dr. GS Potter, described as an educator, and this person's argument is that first of all, policing is not a very dangerous job at all and in many ways officers have the right to kill without consequence and therefore we do need a change in the rules that govern police. Your thoughts.
CLARKE: Well believe it or not, she has a Ph.D. which doesn't say much for people walking around with that title. Look, it's easy for her to say she's academic elite. She spends her time in the ivory tower of a classroom thinking she knows what's going on at ground level. She's at the 30,000 foot level and has very little experience or knowledge of what's really going on in the American ghetto.
She may have heard about it, she may have passed through one a time or two but I always get a kick out of -- you know, policies, that the policies need to change, I don't have a problem with that after a discussion but you can't change them, you know, as we're going through here because she doesn't like the outcome.
Like I said, there's a wall in Washington, D.C. with the names of 20,000 officers killed in the line of duty. I doubt that there's a memorial wall anywhere on with professors who have been killed in the line of indoctrination inside a classroom.
KELLY: Sheriff, great to see you. Thanks for being here.
CLARKE: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: As we watch these protests threatening to escalate again, American's mayor, Rudy Giuliani joins us next on what he thinks is the real problem here. And we'll ask him about Donald trump's debate prep, next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.
KELLY: Breaking tonight, new protests on the streets of Charlotte just hours away from a midnight curfew for the second straight night. Earlier today the Clinton campaign announced that she would be traveling to Charlotte this weekend. And right before we came to air, Charlotte's Democratic mayor asked that no candidates visit that city in the middle of all of this. No update from the Clinton campaign.
Mayor Rudy Giuliani took the helm of the Big Apple when it was considered the crime capital of the country and under eight years of his leadership, the violent crime rate dropped by 56 percent, helping make New York one of America's safest big cities. Mr. Mayor, it's great to see you tonight. So, you know, the amount of misinformation that gets put out there. What we heard from some people was that Mr. Scott was just holding a book, not a gun.
We don't know whether there's a gun in that video. We hear cops saying over and over "drop the gun, drop the gun." I haven't heard anybody say he was holding a book. Even the wife isn't saying that's just a book. And then they were telling us that the cops shot that protester in the head the other night. Now we know today they have a man in custody. It was a career criminal who was on the street who shot him on the head according to the cops.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Sure. This is happening because we don't have leadership in country. We don't have the president of the United States saying to people, wait, remain patient, situations like this take a couple of weeks at least, sometimes more than that to figure out the just result. Justice can't be accomplished except maybe back in the west in the 1830s on the street.
GIULIANI: And this is why we have a criminal justice system. This is why we are a civilized country. Let's wait until all of the facts come in. I heard the African-American police commissioner or chief of Charlotte explain what seemed to be a rational reason for why this African-American police officer shot another African-American. Now, if he's right, then somebody's got to be concerned about the life of the African-American police officer as well.
And all I hear is we're all concerned about the life of the guy who got shot. What about the guy who possibly almost got killed who was putting his life at risk to save us. Doesn't his life count for something? And shouldn't we at least calm down and wait and find out and...
KELLY: What do you make of sort of anecdotal evidence, argument where people say, look, it may not have happened in this case but we're sick of black men winding up shot dead by cops in situations where they thought they had a gun, they didn't have a gun, the gun wasn't pointed at them, et cetera.
GIULIANI: I'm very sympathetic to that and I think any police officer who shoots in an unjustifiable way like the person who got indicted in Tulsa the other day should be indicted.
KELLY: You put a lot of cops in jail.
GIULIANI: How about 70? And a couple when I was mayor. One for 25 years. Police officer who acts improperly and that's what the justice system determines should go to jail. But in most of the situations they're talking about, it turned out that the police officers were innocent. Let's take Baltimore for example and Freddie Gray. Hillary Clinton announced that they were guilty almost unequivocally before she had any facts. All five of them, charges dropped. Three of them were acquitted in a trial before an African-American Judge. And she is yet to apologize for that.
It's that kind of rhetoric from Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama that's produced the racial division that we have in America today. We didn't have this racial division nine years ago. This is much worse than we had nine years ago and I lay it right at the foot of our leadership of the kind of stuff that Barack Obama says, the kind of stuff that Hillary Clinton says, the fact that she wants to go to Charlotte...
KELLY: Now, just getting this -- just getting this in my ear in the wake of the mayor saying that, she's now saying she won't go.
GIULIANI: Well that's good. But her instincts were to go and politicize it.
KELLY: I got to ask you, you're working with Donald trump on debate prep. I love to be able to see that. Are we going to have any surprises on Monday?
GIULIANI: Of course we're going to have surprises.
KELLY: Ooh, we are.
GIULIANI: Of course we're going to have surprises.
KELLY: Can you give us a hint?
GIULIANI: Of course not. You think we're going to go and choose (ph) without a couple of surprises.
KELLY: Is somebody playing Hillary Clinton?
KELLY: Is it you?
GIULIANI: We prefer -- not that I haven't worn a dress before.
KELLY: We haven't seen that.
GIULIANI: However, Donald Trump has his way of preparing and he's doing it, he's doing it very, very well and he'll be well-prepared. Now, she's a, I mean, she's a career politician. She's debated a lot longer than he has in a lot more situation so I think he should expect that she would be really a terrific debater. And I think, I think as you know, Donald Trump always has at least one or two cards up his sleeve. So just watch out.
KELLY: We will watch out. And we're looking forward to watching the whole thing Monday night. Great to see you, Mr. Mayor.
GIULIANI: Thank you.
KELLY: Always a pleasure. So, we're also hearing claims that police would not have opened fire like we saw there had it been a white man with a gun. Do you believe that? Dana Loesch and Richard Fowler take up that debate next when we come right back with another tense night in Charlotte.
KELLY: Breaking tonight as we watch another tense night of marches in Charlotte, North Carolina, a new fight as erupted after Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson said that the police would not have opened fire in Charlotte, North Carolina had it been a white man with a gun, writing quote, "In America, gun rights are only for white people."
Dana Loesch is the host of "Dana" on TheBlaze and the author of "Hands Off My Gun," Richard Fowler is the nationally syndicated radio talk show host and senior fellow at the New Leaders Council. Richard, do you agree with Eugene?
RICHARD FOWLER, RADIO HOST: I think Eugene wrote a very, very interesting piece and I think it's a piece that's thought provoking and I think it's actually something that me and Dana might agree on. While I don't agree with the Second Amendment, I believe that everybody should have access to it, and beyond that there should be due process. If you do have a gun in a state where there is some sort of carry law, the conceal carry or open carry, you should get your due process rights first.
So, you have the Scott case which is still questionable, but in the Philando Castile case, where I think it's the most important case to look at this, he was indeed a gun owner. He had a license. And the police officer did not ask to see a conceal carry permit. He asked for his wallet. He thought he was reaching for a gun and he shot him.
KELLY: That's the one where the man who was in the back of the car and his wife...
FOWLER: No, no. He was in the front.
KELLY: And his girlfriend was streaming it live. It went out on Facebook live and started talking about it, OK.
KELLY: Dana, you tell me because Eugene's argument is that open carry is legal in North Carolina. He had a gun, there's nothing illegal about that and just -- what did he do? He was sitting in a car with a gun.
DANA LOESCH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yeah. First, Megyn thanks for having me. I thought Eugene's piece is uninformed and silly. But I do agree with Richard and that I think that Second Amendment for law abiding Americans, that's something that I completely support the access thereof. Here's the deal, with Philando Castile, yes, he actually was by all accounts and by records that have been produced by local media, and he was in possession of a CHL. He has a concealed carry license.
Here's the problem though, you're concealed to carry license means precisely squat when you are sitting in your vehicle and you are hearing from an officer to keep your hands where that officer can see them. Now, I'm still waiting for more information and I wish that the media would be and I wish that the law enforcement -- that the sheriff's department in this case would be more open about it, Megyn, because the last that I heard we were still kind of waiting to see exactly what happened when the officer approached the window and what Mr. Castile's hand were doing at that particular time.
Megyn I have been stopped before and I'm a little white woman. I have been stopped before and I've had the officer ask me for my license and registration. I forgot one piece of paper and it was in my glove box and I was going to reach over and the officer, "No, ma'am. You can't do that. Keep your hands where I can see them." I'm not going to disobey an order. I'm going to keep my hands on the steering wheel.
KELLY: What about that Richard, because you know, the gun defenders will say you see a cop ordering you to drop your gun and you have one option, which is drop it.
FOWLER: Right. I hear that. I think it will be just tons and tons of cases where you see that, you know, there's Caucasian people who have guns and the officers ask them to drop them and they don't. But in the Philando Castile case in particular, which is what Dana was pertaining to, the officer asked him for his driver license and registration. According to his girlfriend, he says to the officer, I have -- they're in the glove box, I have a concealed carry permit.
LOESCH: That's one incident.
FOWLER: But the point is this.
LOESCH: It is one incident.
FOWELRE: But the point is this, and I think we (inaudible) and Dana can agree, that every gun owner should have due process to present their papers or present their concealed carry permit before being shot or before being threatened with violence...
KELLY: I mean, but if there's not time and you're given a direct order and you've got cops ordering you. I've got to leave it at that. I got to leave, my apology.
LOESCH: Keith Scott is a prohibited possessor.
KELLY: Don't forget to tune in this Sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern for a special live edition of "The Kelly File" for a preview of the big showdown in Hofstra. Then on Monday night tune in for "The Kelly File" after the debate, 11:00 p.m. For wrap-up and analysis. See you then.
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