History aside, Clinton still may have a Bernie problem

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," June 7, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: This is ON THE RECORD coming to you live from the absolutely beautiful Jersey Shore. Right here in this state the polls close in under an hour. New Jersey is the most densely populated state in the entire country. And it's one of six states where today people are voting and drama in the Democratic race.

Right next door, in New York, Secretary Clinton is expected to tell her supporters tonight that she is the presumptive nominee. Senator Sanders says, well, not so fast. He's out west where people are voting in California. Sanders insist he will take California tonight.

Fox team coverage from coast-to-coast. But, first, Karl Rove on the chaos right now that's brewing in the Democratic race.

Karl, Senator Sanders refuses to back down. Is this hurting Secretary Clinton?

KARL ROVE, FORMER DEPUTY SENIOR ADVISOR AND CHIEF-OF-STAFF TO GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, it's -- yes, it is. But it could be temporary. Let's see what he says after tonight's results come in.

He said he is going to go back to Vermont following tonight's outcomes and assess his campaign. I personally believe that even if he loses California tonight, which I think is likely, he will lose New Jersey with its 142 delegates.

I believe he will come in perhaps a close second in California behind Hillary Clinton. But even then I think it's likely he will continue his campaign until the convention that opens on the 25th of July in Philadelphia.

He has declared this a political movement to transform the Democratic Party, and thereby transform the country. And I don't think you give it up by simply throw in the towel and make it nice at this point if you are Bernie Sanders.

He has never run as prophecies Democrat until this time. He's never attended the Democratic convention. And every election that he has won since the mayorship of Burlington nearly 30-some odd years ago, Congress, the U.S. Senate, he's always defeated a Democrat. He has no deep loyalty to the Democratic Party, and I think it's likely he will continue this crusade beyond tonight.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. He wants to transform the Democratic Party. Will he in light of the fact that he is not likely to be the nominee, and he's certainly been a thorn in the side to what is now the presumptive nominee or the expected presumptive nominee, Secretary Clinton?

ROVE: Yes. Well, he already has transformed the Democratic Party by getting her to come strongly to the left. She has said things and advocated things and endorsed things in this campaign that are clearly out of touch with the sort of center Democratic leanings of her husband and what she displayed back in the 1990s. And she has gone further to the left than even President Obama on some things.

But, look, here's the interesting thing.

What does Bernie want? He either wants to get some things that he thinks he can get, that he think will be good for the Democratic Party and do good for his movement, like abolishing the super delegates and making some platform changes, or maybe he wants to ask for things that he knows he is not going to get.

Because, by failing to get them, he helps build the sense of -- build on the sense of resentment that a lot of his supporters have.

They think this is a rigged system. They think he has been treated poorly. They think he has been facing a gigantic political machine that has been orchestrated by the Clintons and involves the Democratic National chairman. They are upset.

And the question is do you cause those people to stick together as a movement more by having them achieve things at the Democratic convention, or do you get them to stay together by asking for things that you cannot and do not get and keep them alive with a sense of resentment around a shared belief that things were taken from them or kept from them at the Democratic convention?

VAN SUSTEREN: Does Sanders help Donald Trump in November?

ROVE: I think it depends. You know, there was an interesting thing -- and I don't want to make too much of this.

A couple of -- in March, 20 percent of Sanders' supporters said that they would support Trump in the fall. I find that hard to believe. And I suspect most of them are going to fall in behind Hillary Clinton. But there are two big questions.

One is what's the degree of their enthusiasm. And, two, what's the degree of their turn-out. Some of them may just simply say you know what apox on both their houses I'm staying home. And residents sending her money, and showing up to work and knocking on doors and ringing telephones. They may just sort of stay home and vote but without a great deal of enthusiasm. And that could hurt her.

I would say this. There is a group of his voters which are increasingly difficult for her to get, which are younger voters. In March, in the "ABC/ Washington Post" poll, she was beating Trump like 65-25 among under 30, under those that were 30 years or younger.

In the May poll, she was beating them 45-42. This was a critical group for Barack Obama. If she doesn't carry young voters anywhere close to what Barack Obama carried them by, she is going to have some difficulty in some of these battleground states.

VAN SUSTEREN: Karl, thank you.

ROVE: Thank you.