Gutfeld on the phony outrage over Trump’s tax returns

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Gutfeld on the phony outrage over Trump’s tax returns

'The Five' co-host responds to mainstream media uproar over New York Times report

This is a rush transcript from “The Five" September 28, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST:  Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Greg Gutfeld, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Martha MacCallum. It is
5:00 p.m. in New York City and Cleveland, Ohio, andthis is THE FIVE. Well, it's one of the most anticipated debates in American history, and it could potentially change the trajectory of the 2020 race. 

In just over 24 hours from now, President Trump andJoe Biden will finally meet face-to-face right here inCleveland. Now, for months, both candidates havelaunched fierce personal attacks, and said they can'twait to face each other. They will soon have the chance. President Trump continues to troll Biden by calling for a drug test. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT:  I'm not joking. I mean, I'm willing to take a drug test. I think you should too, because he is at a very uneven
-- I watched him with some of the -- when he was with -- you know, debating Pocahontas and Harris, who treated him so badly. But I watched him, and he was adamant, right? 

And then I watched him against Bernie Sanders andhe was OK. I mean, he wasn't great. But he wasn't terrible. He was OK. A far cry from the way he
-- you know what I'm saying. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

PERINO:  And the Biden campaign responding by mocking President Trump's comments and attacking his handling of the pandemic, of course. So Martha MacCallum, set us up. We're just 24 hours away in a couple of hours. So I don't think there's going to be a drug test, but there will be a test of wills tomorrow night. 

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST:  Yeah. I think we've always sort of devolved to this battle over health. When you think back to Hillary Clinton, there was a lot of discussion about her health, was she strong enough, the 9/11 afternoon car video that got played over and over. And President Trumphas also had to deal with questions about his as well lately, the walk down the ramp and all of that. 

So I think this is just sort of the pre-punches that go out there to try to make your -- set your opponent a little bit off. And when I hear about these drug tests, I feel like we're getting ready for, you know, a prize fight or perhaps an NFL game. Everybody's got tobe tested before they go in there to make that there's no substances that people need to be aware of. 

But, you know, one thing that I would sort of urge them not to go down that road, you know, PresidentTrump is going down the Sleepy Joe road, right? 
And as you remember, Joe Biden has also challenged him to a push-up contest. So if it devolves into that, it could get kind of weird if, you know, these two guys were in their 70s start, like, you know, doing push- ups on the stage to prove who is more of a man. 

PERINO:  Now, Juan, your dad taught -- he coached boxing, not teach boxing. 
How do you think Biden and Trump are positioning for tomorrow night? 

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST:  Well, I think everybody wants to win. I mean, that's the bottom line. I mean, there's interesting data on this, Dana, and that Wall Street Journal reports this morning, like, 70 percent of Americans say that no matter what happens in the debate, it's not going tochange their vote. But at the same time, theyanticipate that this is going to be a record-setting event. 

Millions -- plus, millions of people will be watching on television. So this is a kind of event that could -- you know, as you said in the opening, potentially change something. We don't know what. What could President Trump do? He's the one trailing. He needs the big change. We know is the past he's done things like invited women who had charges against Bill Clinton to a debate with Hillary Clinton. 

You know, he could do something unbelievable. I don't know. But will it change votes? I don't see it at this moment. 

PERINO:  Greg, one of the things that's quite different from 2016 is Trump didn't have a record of accomplishments to list or, you know, a long political track record, but now he does. And so, you know, Biden has quite a long time in Washington as well, 47 years. And if you're wondering if we are about to be swept away by the rain, the answer is quite possibly.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST:  It was nice knowing you, Dana. We already have looked -- inthe break, we already have three replacements lined up, so --

PERINO:  Great. 

GUTFELD:  Yeah. 

PERINO:  Better to be prepared. 

GUTFELD:  Yes. It is interesting that Biden has been around for 45 years, and Trump did in 10 percent of the time more than what Joe did in his political lifetime. I mean, you can't actually go through all the accomplishments. And I'm talking about deeds because the media focuses on Trump's words. But when you look at the actual deeds, it's fairly long. 

But first, I want to say we have to stop with these sports analogies, OK? I feel bad because I do a lot of them. So I'm going to shift over to a cooking analogy, OK? So this -- from now on -- so when we are watching the debate, it's like we are watching a chef prepare a souffle. And we are all there hoping there's like a 50 percent chance that the souffle willcollapse. 

But if it doesn't collapse, we will probably be impressed. So that souffle is Joe Biden, right? Pretty good, huh, by the way, it's -- are we going topreview this debate anymore, because this is like the fourth preview of the debate. This is worse than me plugging my book or my website, ggutter (ph), where I'll be live chatting the debate tomorrow. 

PERINO:  Yeah. Jesse, do you think it's worse? 

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST:  First of all, I would like to challenge Gutfeld to pee in a cup, because if anybody's performance has been uneven, it has been Greg Gutfeld. I just want a fair fight. 

GUTFELD:  I agree. 

WATTERS:  All right. Tomorrow night, after the debate is over, millions of Americans are going toknow in their hearts that Donald Trump won. Yet, the media will tell them the next day that Joe Bidenwon, or that nothing happened to really change the dynamic of the race, a race that the media says Joeis winning based on the polls that they are conducting.

The American public digests these things, I think, very simply. It's based on attitude. A large chunk of the population is not thinking about policy. 
They are looking at the mix of aggression, tenacity, humor, style, and that's what they're judging on, andthey're also looking at stage presence. 
Who is projecting a calm, confident demeanor that's projecting and resonating through that television screen to the American people?

I don't care if I'm setting the expectations too high. Donald Trump is a force of nature. He has got a huge personality. He's got charisma. He's got charm. He's got aggression. He's got everything that JoeBiden does not have. So I predict tomorrow night, Joe Biden is a very insecure individual. 
I think he gets very frustrated and defensive when he's asked to discuss his past record. 

And to a certain extent, his family especially, Hunter is, like, a raw nerve ending. You even go near it andhe starts lashing out and getting angry. And so it's going to be a brawl. It's going to get dirty. It's going to get nasty. And who wins in that scenario? Donald Trump wins in that scenario. 

PERINO:  All right. I just want to make sure everybody is on notice that tomorrow night on THE FIVE. We will again preview the debate, so these points were fantastic. And tomorrow, we will justexpect some fresh ones and more of it because we love it. Coming up, President Trump hitting back against a New York Times story on his taxes, Greg's monologue, don't miss it. It's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD:  Yeah, what a great song, another day, another bombshell that lands with a thud. Imagine a loaf of bread hitting the pavement from the roof of your house. That's The New York Times report on Trump's old tax returns. Oh, Pillsbury Cronkite, is this one of the most important stories of the past five years? 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  This is one of the most important stories in the past five years, not one of the most important stories of this year, but one of the most important of the past five years. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

GUTFELD:  I'd say his hair is on fire, but too late forthat. Now, the story involves numbers. It's hard on the media. They couldn't tally a 20 percent tip on a dollar beer. But sorry, guys, no laws were broken. And sorry, CNN, no signs of Russia here, because if there were either of those, that would've been Donald Trump lead. 

But instead, it's Trump knows taxes. Trump said it long ago. If you don't follow the tax laws, you're stupid, because the alternative is to make stuff up and send extra cash to Uncle Sam who pay people like Biden to nap. 
Here's a tip. When you own real estate, depreciation and maintenance can outpace the rent you get. You deduct that.  

And it's your accountant's duty not to cure inequality but to legally keep as much of your cash as possible. The media assumes you won't know this. I didn't for the longest time. I had to educate myself on taxes, mortgages, and loans. I didn't learn it at school. But I did learn that Moby Dick had homoerotic underpinnings, English major. 

Bottom line, anyone who pays more than legally owed is an idiot. If you want to pay more, fine, write the check, sucker. But what's the bigger story foryou? That this lame story lands a day before the biggest debate ever, it's a collusion of bombshells dropped by the powerful to sway an election. But as gramps once said about failed courtships, Trump's stories are like buses. 

You miss one, there's another coming in 15 minutes, except now it's every
15 seconds. And all of them are lighter than air. So Dana, I'm going to ask you a question that I often ask you usually after the show. Is this legal? 
Because we don't know where this information came from, and The New York Times says they obtained. It provided by sources with legal access to it. 

So it's publicly available information, meaning it's not a bombshell. What is this? I don't get it.

PERINO:  I think there is two separate questions here, right? So is it legal for the person to haveleaked it to The New York Times? I would argue no. I am not a lawyer. But I would imagine that that person did so under the condition of anonymity because they wanted to make sure that theywouldn't get busted for it, because it is illegal to leak somebody's personal tax information. 

But secondly, the question is, is it legal what President Trump apparently had done with his taxes? I think you laid it out well. There is no obligation to pay more than what the law requires. 

GUTFELD:  Exactly. 

PERINO:  Now, some people might read this article and say this is BS, and we need a different tax system. That would be something that Congress could take up. Like, there might be a better way todo taxes that encourages better investment andfigures out a way to make things more fair, et cetera. There's lots of different ways that the Congress could do that, but instead they don't. 

So no, I don't think this is a bombshell in the way that it used to be. 
Like, bombshells would upend something. And I think you're kind of right that every 15 seconds there's another one. And if you just wait a few hoursand digest everything to read, like you have, then you realize this is not a big deal. However, I do think this number of 750, when the Biden people -
- 

First of all, they had an ad cut and swag made already to sell before the ink was dry on the paper, so there's obviously -- there is some question there. 

GUTFELD:  There you go. 

PERINO:  They have it. This is the number. This is $750. It's sort of like when Mitt Romney had that 47 percent gap. Like, that number stuck in people's heads. So if you are a Biden voter, you can just add this to the list of reasons why you are not going tovote for President Trump.

GUTFELD:  Yeah. But you're already a Biden voter. Jesse, she brings up a great point, that miraculously, coincidentally --

(CROSSTALK) 

GUTFELD:  We are here together. It should be this way all the time, Jesse. 
Who needs them? Just us two here together, andthen we can open a bed-and- breakfast in Vermont like we planned. 

WATTERS:  Yes, we have been planning that. Andwe're going to deduct everything to lower our taxable income. 

GUTFELD:  Exactly, exactly, and open a chain. So here's the deal. Dana brings up this point that, like, somehow, Joe had this all ready. This smacks of an assist that they're actually trying to help him. 

WATTERS:  Well, Joe can't do it by himself. He relies on bombshells from The Times to keep his dead campaign alive, and that's fine. I think the presidentwill still win with this. When the Atlantic story dropped, Joe was at eight percent leading in the polls. And three weeks later, he is leading by seven. So did that have a big impact? 

No, Greg, Amazon, Netflix, Chevron, what do those companies have in common? 
In 2018, they all paid zero percent in income tax tothe federal government. Would you say that the CEOs of those companies were bad businessmen? No, you would call them brilliant the same you'd say Donald Trump is brilliant. The funny thing is this. 

Joe Biden, for 50 years, wrote the very tax code that Donald Trump took advantage of. It was Obama's IRS that gave Donald Trump a $73 million refund check. It was NBC News that handed Donald Trumpa half a billion dollars for The Apprentice. It was MSNBC's Morning Joe and CNN that Trump's TV made him president to this day. 

And it was The New York Times that covered Donald Trump's wealth and success for decades, which allowed Donald Trump to leverage his name-brand and use it as licensing deals to make him millions of dollars. So this kind of story reads as the guilty conscious of the American liberal media andpolitical establishment that have given rise toDonald Trump's wealth and fame. 

Can you imagine a news organization looking at a billionaire's tax records and concluding he was a bad businessman? I mean, how stupid is that? They act like the guy's got no cash flow. And in the same article, they say he is making hundreds of millions indollars from overseas and domestic investments from his real estate portfolio. 

You ask 100 people if they -- you want the real estate portfolio of Donald Trump. Every single person would say yes. How does this guy have no money when we are watching his jets fly, his helicopters chopper around. We see him playing golf at (Inaudible). We see him at Mar-A-Lago. We look upstairs and we see these towering skyscrapers. 

You are saying to me that this guy doesn't know how to manage money. And now, the best part theysay at the end, the walls are closing in like he's about to go broke. OK, how about he sells a property on the Westside for
100 million, or better yet, the Clinton's made $300 million after leaving the White House. I bet Donald Trump could clear that in six years. 

GUTFELD:  Are you auditioning for (Inaudible) financial on CNBC? 

WATTERS:  Greg, I learned all of that yesterday. 

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD:  So Martha, if this comes up, I hear there's a debate tomorrow. I believe it's on this network. We're probably going to preview it later. 

MACCALLUM:  So we should promote it so everyone would know. 

GUTFELD:  So when this comes up, how will Donald Trump, or how should he respond to it? I guess I can't ask you that question because you're moderating. How -- I mean you're not moderating, but you're the --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM:  But we are going to do the pre andthe post-show. 

(CROSSTALK) 

MACCALLUM:  Obviously, they are going to be ready for this. I would imagine this might be a moment when you go the Hunter Biden route and you talk about the $3.5 million that he got from this Russian oligarch's wife who was married to the Moscow mayor. I mean, that's one possibility. But one thing I would just point out about this story, journalistically, I've always -- it kind of goes up when I'm reading an in-depth piece like this. 

And there's a whole paragraph toward the end which poses questions like what if all of this is a huge national security concern? What if this money leads directly to Putin? What if he's the one he owes the money to? What if he used a tax write off on the Stormy Daniels payment? Those are the questions that you're supposed to answer while you're writing the story. 

And others are supposed to have more stories coming, and perhaps the what if answers will be answered in those later questions. But then simultaneously, that last line toward the bottom. The records do not reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia. So yeah, there are some red flags in here for anybody who is in journalism school. That's for sure.

WATTERS:  I think the conclusion, Juan, that we could all come to from reading this article, is that we all need better accountants. 

WILLIAMS:  Yeah, sure. I mean, we want the mob account, you know, just pay no taxes. You know, this is -- let me just say this. This is unbelievable to me. It's like you guys are coming after the circus andtrying to clean up the streets. It's unbelievable. Waita minute. Let me get this straight. 
If I was earning like, you know, a single mom, no kids, doing a job in America, making $18,000 a year. 

I would've paid more taxes than President Trump inhis first year in office. And you say that's not a story? That's a story. That affects people. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS:  No, you guys go on and on about this is no story. This is The New York Times. You know what? For once, you should say Donald Trump, you promised to release your taxes. Oh, well, why haven't you if it's just that. And Jesse, by the way, maybe he just keeps racking up debt. He keeps taking out loans. And he's got a ton of debt up to his eyeballs. 

And that's how he continues to say that he's a great businessman because he is not obviously such a great businessman. This is the reality that you guys are closing your eyes to.

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS:  He loaned himself $66 million and paid that to help his campaign to be crooked. Do you think he's having cash flow problems? 

WILLIAMS:  Yeah, I do think -- I think it's obvious. 

(CROSSTALK) 

WILLIAMS:  Ten of the 15 years before he became president, this guy pays no taxes, and you want toexcuse it? That's shameful. 

(CROSSTALK) 

GUTFELD:  We've got to roll. Boy, it sounds like a hurricane over there. 
Next up, the left continues to smear Judge Amy Coney Barrett, ACB, latest examples next on THE FIVE. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

MACCALLUM:  Supreme Court nominee, Amy Coney Barrett, facing brutal attacks on her faith, meeting Bill Maher who has referred to Catholicism as quote, "silly stories" went after her. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I'll be saying this name a lot. I'm sure, because she is a (BLEEP) nut, religion. I was right about that one, too. Amy -- sorry, but Amy Coney Barrett, Catholic, really Catholic. I mean, really, really Catholic, like speaking in tongues. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

MACCALLUM:  Unbelievable. So a Boston University professor suggested that Judge Barrett is a quote, "white colonizer" or he said this about people who -- he called white colonizer's people who adopt children of color, calling them their props. Then you've got Senator Cory Booker claiming that Judge Barrett should have to recuse herself from election issues (Inaudible), which is a bit of separate issue. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  One of the things I want toask her is will she recuse herself, because if she does not -- in terms of any election issues that come before us, because if she does not recuse herself, I fear that the court will be further de-legitimized. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

PERINO:  So Greg, let me go to you first. You know, it strikes me that Justice Ginsburg was famous foreducating the country on discrimination on the basis of sex. And I think now we are in for an education and a re- evaluation of discrimination on the basis of religion in the person of Amy Coney Barrett as we get ready for these hearings. What did you think of Bill Maher calling her an F'N but? 

GUTFELD:  Well, it's not surprising. He has been -- he's never hidden his antireligious bias. He's an atheist, so it doesn't surprise me too much. It is always the case that when liberals like their Supreme Court justices, they want them to exercise their personal opinions. When it's Republican Supreme Court justices, they demand that they don't, andthey don't trust that they won't. 

I am going to use a fitness analogy now, if you don't mind. You know when you're riding a bike andyou're now going downhill fast. Do you peddle? No, you coast. Arguing over the Supreme Court nomination is like peddling downhill. We don't haveto, right? This thing is over. Can we please have the vote? And I love -- I love the unprincipled Democrats going after her for being principal because she's pro-life. They're Catholic, and they're not pro-life. Essentially, her religion is Coachella, andthere's this open-mic night.

MACCALLUM: Yes, good point. So, Dana, you know, when I look at this, and I look at the comparison between Justice Scalia and his confirmation hearings, they hold essentially, very, very similar beliefs. He was confirmed 98 to zero and wasn't asked any questions about abortion. So why is it so different for this nominee?

PERINO: You know, I try to keep it pretty even keel. But when it comes to the Supreme Court nominations, I actually do want to see it, Greg. I think it's very illuminating and very clarifying for the hypocrisy that happens. 
And I think -- if you think about what Senator Dianne Feinstein said, Amy Coney Barrett's appellate judge confirmation hearing that the dogma lives loudly within you, but why is it then that theycelebrate Joe Biden's Catholicism but not hers? What is the difference? 

And also in the Constitution, in the First Amendment, first for a reason, there is a freedom of religion. There should be (INAUDIBLE). She's already talked about that in our appellate confirmation hearing. And I think that Senator Booker is way out of bounds. Really? Does that mean that somebody who is Jewish on the court should recuse themselves if something comes up in terms of the Jewish religion? No, that's not what the Constitution said. 
That's not what the founding fathers said. 

She's a brilliant judge. She's 48 years old. She's a mother of seven children. She handles it all with such poise and grace. I would love to see the difference. That's why I'm looking forward to these hearings, because I think it's very eye-opening.

MCDOWELL: I'm just laughing because you're yelling over the rain, but you have -- 

PERINO: It's so loud. 

MCDOWELL: So, Juan, I also thought this comment about -- I mean, the goal of saying that her adopted children are being used as props. And I want topoint out that this Boston University Professor made this comment, you know, as Twitter goes, attached to someone else's, and did not attach it directly toher, but the overall sentiment is pretty clear.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I mean, you can have all kinds of arguments about her. I think, what we can tell so far as Republicans want to make her Joan of Arc, make her into a victim, and say they're picking up people like this professor. 

MCDOWELL: No, who's saying she's a victim. 

WILLIAMS: Well, all of a sudden, this is about her religion. When I listened to Biden, when I listened toSchumer, when I listened to Pelosi, nobody's talking about her religion. So in fact, this is an argument about how she might vote on something like the Affordable Care Act, taking away people's pre-existing condition -- 

MCDOWELL: I think that's decided that's the safer route.

WILLIAMS: -- taking away people -- in the midst of a pandemic. She is on record as twice having saidbeing very critical of decisions that upheld the Affordable Care Act. In addition to which, she is on record as having said that in terms of religion, that, you know, to be a good lawyer, you have to be a servant of God. 

Well, wait a second, a lot of people would say, wait a minute, we want you to be an impartial arbiter of the Constitution. 

MCDOWELL: Well, she said that too, Juan. 

WILLIAMS: Is going to get in the way? So, she comes back after having said that, as you point out, andsaid, "Well, I what I really mean is, I'll explain it toyou. No, it's not the case." But you can understand why it might raise some alarms. 

But the key point here is this is going to be an argument about a rush process. Most Americans, including lots of Republicans think this is being too rushed. The next president should make the choice, not the current president, while people are already voting for president.

PERINO: When people can press a button and get food delivered to their house in 15 minutes, I don't think that they think this is rushed. 

WILLIAMS: Well, I can tell you, the polls tell you it's rushed. 

GUTFELD: It's the polls. 

MCDOWELL: Jesse, quick thought. 

WATTERS: Should I coast and not (INAUDIBLE). I'll just say one thing. I'll just say liberals view religion as an obstacle, because religion gets in the way of them implementing their radical left-wing agenda. So, anybody with a religion, that adheres to a religion is suspicious to liberals. 

And I don't think they're going to be disciplined enough, as Juan says, to keep it on the level about ObamaCare and not go into some nasty attacks. 
And it's going to blowback on the Biden campaign big time.

MCDOWELL: Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a very devout Jew. She had a Hebrew assemble on the door of her Supreme Court Justice offices. And I don't remember hearing any dispute or that she was weird or that that was freaky, or any of the kind of things that we're hearing tossed around about Amy Coney Barrett here. 

OK, so coming up next, Speaker Nancy Pelosi bracing Democrats for election chaos. What she's telling her party to get ready for next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Both political parties now bracing forelection chaos. Speaker Nancy Pelosi warning Democrats that President Trump could win the election if the House has to decide the outcome. Pelosi says she's afraid of a scenario where it's not clear which of the candidates receives the minimum
270 Electoral College votes needed to win. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I had been working on this for a while. I've been working on almost every scheme he might have to steal the election. 
Anything we do to increase our number in the House of state delegations and members of Congress, wherever they are, will help us hold the House in larger size, win the Senate, and elect JoeBiden President of the United States on Election Day or the few days that it takes to count thereafter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So Dana, doesn't it make sense for Pelosi to try to prepare so that the country doesn't end up in election chaos? 

PERINO: All right, Juan, prepare for me to blow your mind with a couple of points, OK. So, what she's discussing is very, very unlikely, all right. 
Just so everybody -- like, don't freak out at home, like, it's very, very unlikely. However, if it happens, the Republicans control 26 delegations, the Democrats control 22. Two states are split, which one is my baby, Pennsylvania and Michigan. We've heard of those before. These are the battleground. So, that's another reason that these are battleground states.

So, this is a great chance for Nancy Pelosi to direct national money and attention to swing districts, two in particular, Elissa Slotkin, Michigan 8, and Conor Lamb, Pennsylvania 17. Because the tally of the congressional delegation would occur after the new Congress is sworn in. Again, it's very, very unlikely, but if it happened, it would be an exercise inabsolute raw political power, the likes this country has never seen. 

WILLIAMS: All right, so Jesse -- 

PERINO: Does your mind blown? Come on.

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes, yes. I can't -- I think the rain has dampened my mind. 
Jesse, we're talking about election chaos. Do you worry that President Trump, by going after the Postal Service, has contributed to the idea that you know what, we're headed towards chaos, and I'll have to be settled in the courts or by Congress?

WATTERS: Do I look worried, Williams? I'm actually just kind of recoiling from Dana's amazing commentary about what the possibilities are. And I want to touch on what she said, because it is 26-22 right now. And, Juan, why is that? Because under Barack Obama's presidency, Democrats lost on a lot of state delegations largely due to the unpopularity of ObamaCare. That's why Republicans have a majority in the state houses. And that's what's going to put them over the edge because you can foresee a scenario, I know it's unlikely where it is 269-269. I've looked at the map a few times. I can see at least two realistic situations where the map comes out like that. 

The other thing is this too, which is the Democrats fault, is because in Wisconsin right now, they've kicked up to the federal judge a case where they say, oh, yes, you can count absentee ballots, six days after the election. Republican sued that went to the federal courts, and the Federal Court said no, that goes against what the state constitution prescribes in the state of Wisconsin. 

And why does the federal judges say that? Because Trump appointed a lot of federal judges in his three and a half years. And why, because Harry Reid nukes the filibuster for judicial appointments. Again, another reason why Democrats are really the reason why things are going so badly for Democrats.

WILLIAMS: All right, so Greg, over the weekend, the president says he might not concede, this would be chaos, because of the mail-in ballots. He does -
- he says, you got to throw out those ballots. What do you say?

GUTFELD: Well, there's a lot of problems with these mail-in ballots. The absentee ballots are pretty good. The states that are using mail-in ballots for years are pretty good. But there's that third variable, the people doing it for the first time, and we're finding corruption here and there. 

The point is, I find it hilarious that the people talking about chaos as if it's coming, when it's already here. The same people that excused and quietly energized 100 days of violence are now saying, oh, my God, something is going to happen in November. I've been saying, it's not happened in November, it's happening right now, and it's going to get worse. 

I would like -- instead of people wringing their hands, though, why not come up with a plan? I mean, we prepped for Y2K, and we sailed rightthrough that. We should get together. And I mean, we as in media, and talk about how do we dial down the intensity of conflict, because it's our responsibility? 

We're the people with the hands on the dials turning up the -- turning up the conflict so people get at each other's throats. We can turn it down if we want. And I think we should be thinking about that because it's going to get ugly in the next six weeks, seven weeks. And if we don't have a decision that is concrete, Biden won or Trump won, that's going toallow Antifa, and BLM, and all the other groups that are out on the street more excuses to wage war.

WATTERS: Greg, my new year's resolution was tostop the personal attacks in the name-calling, so I've already done my part -- 

GUTFELD: Well done. 

WATTERS: -- to ratchet down the heat. 

GUTFELD: Nice.

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes, yes. We appreciate that. 

WATTERS: Thank you. 

WILLIAMS: Martha, very quickly. There are news reports today about Russia hacking a Texas company that sells software that helps the counties display election results. But Trump continues to deny the Russian interference.

MCDOWELL: Well, you know, unfortunately the -- you know, any actual efforts by other countries tomess with our elections got so submerged in the political side of that equation that I do think that most of America is not aware of the efforts that are being made or have been made in a way that we can actually do something about. And I think -- I think that's the most important thing. 

The other thing I would say is I did a panel with suburban women -- I'm going to show you a little bit of it in just a moment -- and just right down the middle, the Democrats wanted -- were all going tovote by mail, Republicans all said they wanted tovote in person. And I feel like this is an extension of the COVID divide across the country. And that is that brought us to this point in the election where Democrats almost feel like it's a protest vote to mail in your ballot. 

Mail-in your ballot. We're going to drag this out. We're going to make sure that this is not done on November 3rd. And Republicans' different -- you know, different way of looking at it, want very much to walk in there, to know that their vote is going tocount, to know that they placed it and do it inperson. So, we'll see.

WILLIAMS: All, right up next, will there be a pre-debate handshake? And what about the audience? The new COVID debate rules, that story ahead on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: The first presidential debate is going tolook a little different. 
Trump and Biden will skip the customary handshake. The candidates will be socially distance but will not have to wear masks. There will be an audience of about 75 people and gone is the post-debate spin room for surrogates. 

Greg, I'm going to miss the handshake. What about you?

GUTFELD: I think that they could still have the handshake, just have them wear gloves. They come out wearing white gloves, they shake, and then theyjust take the gloves off and throw them away. You got to have some kind of physical contact there so they remind each other they're both human.

WATTERS: Martha, in those spin room that -- who do you think that hurts?

MCDOWELL: You know, I think it hurts both sides, honestly. I don't know if people outside of our world will miss it all that much. And certainly, the people who are going to be in there spinning will miss their opportunity to do that. But I think they'll be spinning all over cable news all night long and deep into the next day so that's the opportunity will still exist I think.

WATTERS: Juan won't be spinning, he'll be telling the truth. And that truth will be the Biden lost, right, Juan?

WILLIAMS: I love it. I love it, Jesse. Boy, I tell you. You have rigged the outcome already. You know, but the thing is, I think it means we all have to pay attention to what we see. And so, we have to watch Donald Trump's hair. Is it worth $70,000 in terms of a tax write off? $70,000, Jesse. I know you love your hair.

WATTERS: Yes, that's about half of what I write off. Dana, the audience factor, 75 people, what do you think that does to the dynamic onstage?

PERINO: Well, I haven't -- you know, ever since I've been watching presidential debates, I've not seen it like this. I'm excited because I feel like it makes you focus more on their words, that there's a lot more importance on their words, their tone, their demeanor. All of it is going to be focused on them rather than audience reaction. 

WATTERS: All right, "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time for now for "ONE MORE THING." What you got, Jesse?

WATTERS: All right, if you want to get some free money, download the app Fox Bet Super 6 and you could win $25,000. So, you download the app again, Fox Bet Super 6, and you do this presidential debate game where you pick six different outcomes for the debate, and then on the 29th, you see how it unfolds. So, download it and you get a free chance at $25,000. Why not?

PERINO: It's pretty good. I mean, you already know how it's going to turn out though, Jesse.

MCDOWELL: You're not allowed to win the money, Jesse.

PERINO: All right, I had the best "ONE MORE THING" yesterday. Of course, we didn't get to do "ONE MORE THING." So, I'm doing it today because it was that good. There's some new fans in My Ohio Stadium. I don't even know why they call it My Ohio Stadium.

Anyway, it's in Denver. It's Denver Broncos game yesterday. Check it out. 
These are the fans, 5,700 socially distant regular fans. And that would be the show's creators Trey Parker, Matt Stone and of the South Park fame. 
Check this out. I mean, that's hilarious right there.

That is a good way to just deal with Coronavirus andlaugh it off. There they are. The Broncos are currently 2-0. And I don't know what happened tothe game yesterday because this was yesterday's "ONE MORE THING" and it was a really good one. But now -- 

WILLIAMS: I like it. 

PERINO: Does anybody know?

WILLIAMS: I don't know. 

PERINO: OK, I'm not a fair-weather fan. I just don't know if they won. Hey, Greg.

GUTFELD: I'd like to join that Mile High Club, Dana. Let's do this. 

PERINO: I don't know what you mean, Greg. 

GUTFELD: You know, for many decades, I hated spiders. They were ugly, creepy, somewhat hairy. There were like many versions of me. Then I moved out into the woods and I see spiders everywhere. They're all over the place. They're creating all these webs, and I'm watching them catch all of the insects that I hate, like mosquitoes and fleas and chiggers. 

And I'm going to myself a go like, you know what, maybe I was wrong about these little fellas. They're just trying -- they get up every morning, they're trying to do a job, and the job is to help me maintain my health. 

WATTERS: You're pro-spider now. 

GUTFELD: I am. So, I want to say, spiders, I was wrong. And I like you now.

PERINO: I'm sure they accept that apology. 

GUTFELD: They will.

PERINO: And they will bite you. 

GUTFELD: If not, I'll step on them. 

PERINO: All right, Martha. 

MCDOWELL: So, it was Buccaneers 28, Broncos 10. Tom Brady came to town, so unfortunately things did not work out that well for the Broncos. 

PERINO: Darn it. But the South Park fans were amazing. 

MCDOWELL: The South Park fans were amazing. So, yesterday, I did something we haven't had a chance to do a lot of. I went out and talked to voters. 
It's kind of thing we do all the time in un-COVID times. But I got to sit down socially distanced with six -- with five really great women, suburban moms in North Olmsted, Ohio in Cuyahoga County, different political beliefs. 

We have some Republicans and Democrats. Theytalked about what they care about, what they think matters here. And this is -- this woman is a mom and a bartender, and she ran for state office. This is Jolene. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she's going to do a great job. I'm excited. 
I'm very nervous that we're doing this so close to an election now.

MCDOWELL: Would you rather that the President -- the President waited till after?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honestly -- and this will get a lot of conservatives upset -- yes, I think we should have waited until after the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCDOWELL: So I should have set that up by saying that I ask about Amy Coney Barrett, but I hope it became obvious in the course of that sound bite. You know, what was interesting, and I have to say, all of those women, with the exception of maybe one, thought that they should have waited until after the election.

PERINO: That's what Juan has been saying. Juan, you've been saying that. 
All right, Juan -- 

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think there's time for me todo my "ONE MORE THING," so I'll just say, I'm going to save it for tomorrow. I don't have South Park. AndDana, you did blow my mind. That was great. All right. 

PERINO: Thank you. I mean, I made some excellent points tonight, actually. 
I think that's probably one of my best shows even though maybe the rain was drowning us out. Hey guys, it's so fun. I cannot wait to preview the debate tomorrow. 

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: It's going to be the most fun thing I haveever experienced. 
"SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. 

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