Gutfeld on the media and pollsters getting it wrong

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Gutfeld on the media and pollsters getting it wrong

'The Five' co-host calls out political pundits who underestimated Trump's support

This is a rush transcript from “The Five” November 4, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST:  Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Martha MacCallum, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld. It is

5:00 in New York City, and this is THE FIVE. Breaking news, Fox News now projecting that Joe Biden will win the state of Michigan, the former VP now just six Electoral College votes away from capturing the magic number of 270.

But it is not over yet, votes still being counted in other key battlegrounds, including Pennsylvania, Nevada, North Carolina, and Georgia.

The Trump campaign is still confident it can win and Joe Biden saying earlier that when all of the votes are counted, that he will be the next president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  After a long night of counting, it is clear that we are winning enough states to reach 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. I am not here to declare that we have one.

But I am here to report when the count is finished, we believe we will be the winners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO:  All right, as we have been doing, let's check in with Bill Hemmer at the billboard for the update on the state of the race. You're just upstairs there, Bill.

BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Yes, indeed. Nice to -- socially distance, right, I mean, this is safe, isn't it, Dana? You were -- you're talking about Pennsylvania. Why don't we start there? There seems to be where the action is indeed. We have made a big call on Michigan just within the last hour. That puts Joe Biden six electoral votes away from the White House.

So will he get there? Does he have enough to get over that finish line here? Here in Pennsylvania, this is where the action is, Philadelphia down here in the southeast, as Pittsburgh allocating county in the south -- sorry, the western part of the state. What the Trump campaign is saying is that if they can keep Joe Biden around 70 percent outside of the big cities of Philly and Pittsburgh.

They have got the chance to keep this state red. So let's see how they can do that, all right? Down here in Philadelphia, a lot of votes come in here, Joe Biden about 80 percent of the vote from Hillary Clinton four years ago.

He's underperforming at the moment from a percentage basis, so we'll see how that continues to fall out there.

And again, all of the votes are not in yet. I talk about this Bellwether County, Bucks County. It has been so tight for the past three election cycles. And again, it is pretty tight this year. But Donald Trump is doing better, actually, than we have seen in years past. For example, eight years ago, there was Mitt Romney. Four years ago, here is where Donald Trump was, same county now, and a lot of votes coming in Bucks County.

And here we are this year in 2020. This is what gives the Trump team hope right now that they can hold onto this. Just (ph) for the press conference a moment ago from Rudy Giuliani, now they're going to launch a big challenge in Pennsylvania. That's what is coming our way here. Let's pop around here, quite favorable to Biden in Montgomery County.

Also down here in Chester County by about 12 points so far. And Delaware County, a lot of votes too, raw (ph) votes 105, Biden 164,000. We're going to see whether or not the theory applies to what the Trump team is saying right now. If they keep Joe Biden in the low 70s and areas outside of Philadelphia, can they win the state? Well, I can take you around rural Pennsylvania.

And I can tell you that Joe Biden doesn't get anywhere close to the vote margin that he needs in the countryside. The problem is there's not as many votes in rural Pennsylvania as you find in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. So that is the game right now. And in all likelihood, that's going to be the game now. For several days, possibly even weeks, if this is contested to that degree.

Why did we call Michigan? I think this is very interesting. Here's Detroit.

Here's Grand Rapids. This is Wayne County. We were watching this thing all night long. We are waiting and waiting for that vote to come in. What I find it interesting is that Joe Biden is at almost 68 percent, Hillary Clinton was at 69. So he is underperforming.

So far this year, the president did better in that county. This is Flint, Michigan, Genesee County. He's at 50 percent. She was at 55. So again, the president is outperforming his performance from four years ago. That's why the Trump team was hanging on to hope in Michigan, as you saw from our decision desk -- just wanted to be clear.

Remember last night, Dana, when we're looking at this map and all of a sudden Arizona popped up. I just wanted to make sure that we are in the same year. And indeed we are, 2020. That's where we will freeze it, 264 to 214.

PERINO:  Does anybody here -- down here have a question for Bill?

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST:  I just wanted to say it's amazing he's up.

And he's doing this, pretty impressive, Bill.

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER:  I wanted to press your buttons, right?

GUTFELD:  Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO:  Wow, you brought that line to the wrong show, Bill.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO:  All right, thanks, Bill.

HEMMER:  See you later, bye.

PERINO:  All right. Let's just take around the half circle here. Jesse, let's start with you. Went to bed at 1:30 so you missed a little bit of action, how do you feel today?

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST:  It is a mess. I mean, what a perfect ending to 2020, Dana. We don't know anything yet. I think the country deserves a lot better than this. We can't count votes. We can't tabulate states. It is incredibly frustrating. And at this point, with the margins the way they are, whoever wins, Joe Biden or Donald Trump.

The other side is going to feel like there are shenanigans. And personally, this is how I see it. I am going to give Joe Biden and I'm going to give him Michigan and Wisconsin. I'm going to give Donald Trump Georgia and North Carolina. I think there is general agreement around that. So to me, it comes down to three states. The constellation is Nevada, is Arizona, and is Pennsylvania.

Donald Trump needs to win Pennsylvania and either Nevada or Pennsylvania and Arizona. Right now, Arizona, the Trump campaign believes if they continue the count there, they will be ahead by Friday. Nevada, they believe if they continue the count there, they will be ahead by about 5,500 votes. But there is a lot of sketchy stuff in Nevada. I would not put a lot of stake in that.

Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, he is ahead right now by 400,000 votes. Right now, we heard from Rudy Giuliani that they are counting votes, 125,000 ballots were counted without any poll watchers there, without any representation from the Trump campaign. And they are very concerned about what is going on there. They believe, again, that once these returns fully come in, they have enough votes to maintain the lead in Pennsylvania.

So again, Pennsylvania and Arizona, I believe, the key to the president it's a narrow path. I will admit that -- more narrow than Joe Biden's, but it's doable and they're confident that that will happen.

PERINO:  All right. Greg Gutfeld, we have not heard from you yet today and we have been dying to.

GUTFELD:  Well, I have to say this is a mess. The upside is I guess the looters are going to have to put off their Christmas shopping for a few days. That is very sad. It is upsetting. We are the most developed nation in the world and we can't count. We have adults that are in charge of counting things and they can't count. You think we would have had this thing figured out, but we did not factor in a few other things.

I'm going to use an analogy. Because I, you know, I looked at this last night, and I thought of it like a Thanksgiving turkey. You spend all this time preparing for the meal, right, and then you put it in the oven. You set it and forget it, right? Six hours, seven hours, however long, that's what it -- I go bed. I don't expect somebody in the middle of the night to come in and open up and screw the turkey, which is what, happened last night.

WATTERS:  They screwed the turkey.

GUTFELD:  They screwed the turkey. I mean, it's all this weird stuff goes on. You go to bed. Hey, everything's fine. You wake up and something is going on. I just thought that was really strange. But I also think that everybody in America is tired of being told something that isn't true. We were expected this massive blow out, right?

Because Trump is, like, so hated and he's a racist and he's going to lose minorities and women. And then you find out that -- not at all. This is razor-thin. There was no blow out. CNN admits that. He gained in minorities, even gained in women. And he did get the seniors in Florida after all. So you still find out that despite what the media and pollsters were telling you for, I don't know three or four years, America still loves this guy. This was not the outcome we were told. So I think that that is really -- I think that there is a frustration.

And the people at home that are watching this and going, like, what a bunch of BS we were told. We were told that everybody in America hates this guy.

That this is so awful and evil, and here he is. He's like -- he could win.

And there are some weird shenanigans going on. Something flew out of my mouth just now. And let's not forget, you can get mad that Trump is fighting for this like anybody would.

Remember, Hillary still hasn't conceded 2016, and neither have the media.

So I just think that -- and also, I have one last point. This isn't about networks. It is about an election, so this race to be first and getting the greatest ratings, that is awesome, but at what expense?

PERINO:  Martha, we have a whole show to talk about this, so we'll have quick comments here and then we will keep going. Martha, last night you said that at the end that you feel like this could go on for a few weeks.

And do you still feel that way today?

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST:  I think we just saw the posture from both campaign a little while ago. We saw Joe Biden come out and sort of take a presidential tone. He said his going to -- he expects that he will be able to hit 270, and then and only then would he claim a victory. And then we saw Eric Trump come out, Rudy Giuliani come out, very, very fired up, yelling about fraud and stolen elections.

Now, this is part of the democracy, right? This is part of the process.

They have every right to contest these if there are 130,000 votes that they want to watch closely. They should open the doors in Philadelphia. Let them come in. Do the recount that they want to have there so that everybody can feel that there is true transparency there.

It's not right to say that someone can witness an election and make them stand across the room. I had the same thought when people kept saying there are all of these cameras and you can watch them vote. I'm, like, can't see anything. All I can see is people shuffling papers around. And so in the world that we live in where no one trusts anything, as Greg was saying.

I do think that there is just a real -- sort of a gut feeling of unease about the polling, about everything that people get told. I think that, you know, a lot of folks need to get out of the way and let this process continue to play out. But that's where I feel we stand right now.

PERINO:  Juan, can we get a quick thought from you?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST:  Sure. You can come back to me. But I just

-- before we go, I just want to say. To me, it's pretty clear there is one side that is acting confident at this moment, one side that's reacting with grace, the other side still talking about conspiracy theories and stealing.

With regard to recounts, I think we have had 30 recounts in American history.

And the two recounts that resulted in any change, the change was within one-tenth of one percent. So that should give you, the viewer, a sense that Joe Biden is on a pretty clear track to win the presidency of the United States.

PERINO:  All right. We have a lot more to come. We have key races that are yet to be called. We have lawsuits that are already flying. And one state could be headed for a recount, as Juan was just referring to, the very latest from the Trump and Biden campaign next on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM:  So breaking in just the last 30 minutes, Fox News projects that Joe Biden will win the state of Michigan, putting him six Electoral College votes away from the magic number of 270. But the race is not over yet.

You've got Pennsylvania, Nevada, North Carolina, and Georgia still undecided at the moment. So let's check in with John Roberts for the latest from the Trump campaign. They were just speaking out moments ago, hi, John at the White House.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Martha, good afternoon to you. The Trump campaign has had a couple of conference calls today. The one that we had with them this afternoon they said that they have crunched the numbers.

They have done the math, and that things are looking very, very good for President Trump in the state of Pennsylvania when that vote tally eventually comes in.

Bill Stepien, who is the president's campaign manager, actually made a very bold pronouncement on the conference call. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We are declaring a victory in Pennsylvania. This is not based on gut or feel. This is based on math. We feel very, very positive that the president and the vice president will again deliver a victory in Pennsylvania. In fact, we have a high degree of certainty that the margin won't be close.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS:  Now, to the Grand Canyon state Arizona, which as you know, has been called by Fox News and the Associated Press, the Trump campaign insists that there are still the outstanding votes in that state for Donald Trump to pull off a win. They say that they are 605,000 outstanding ballots, many of which were cast on the day of, which would likely mean that those people are Trump supporters.

Now, the president has been doing very well in Arizona with day out of voting, and Jason Miller, who is his senior campaign advisor, says that the president would need to win slightly under 58 percent of those in order to take the Grand Canyon state, which would be to perform to a lesser degree than he has been with ballots that have already been counted. Listen to what Jason Miller said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We believe that over these next couple of days as these ballots come in and are counted in the state of Arizona, that we could be looking at potentially, as soon Friday, President Trump being declared the winner, or it being clear that he has enough votes to formally say that he will win the state of Arizona.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS:  And of course, there have been lawsuits filed. There's a lawsuit that's underway in Michigan, one in Pennsylvania to halt the vote in order to give the Trump campaign observers a closer look at what is going on with the ballots, and then the Trump campaign saying that it's going to intervene in a current case before the Supreme Court, which would invalidate Pennsylvania's three-day extension to mail-in voting, which would mean, Martha, that any votes that came in via mail after 8:00 p.m. on election night would be thrown out.

MACCALLUM:  John Roberts, thank you very much at the White House. So let's check in with Peter Doocy for the latest on the Biden campaign this evening. Hey, Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Good evening. And they've still got last night's election night set up for what they thought might be a victory speech behind us. Nobody has really touched it. But today when Biden wanted to talk, he was ready to walk down the catwalk again. Instead, he appeared indoors for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN:  I am very proud of our campaign. Only three presidential campaigns in the past have defeated an incumbent president. When it is finished, God willing, we will be the fourth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY:  So Biden may not definitively want to declare that the election, but there are senior people on his campaign who are saying exactly that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  If they want to push it up, push something up to the Supreme Court one way or the other, presumably they can do that. We are not worried about it. We are winning the election. We have won the election. We don't have to do any of anything but protect to the rights of voters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY:  And that declaration of victory comes just days after the Biden campaign was asked how they might react if Trump declared victory before he got to 270. And they said that's not how it works. They are ready to go to court for weeks if necessary, but they want cash to hire Democratic lawyers to deploy to contested counties across the county.

So they are emailing donors today about this new effort. Quote, "the Biden fight fund will fund election protection efforts for Joe Biden and Democrats up and down the ballot." Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are almost never in the same place at the same time. They were both here today. She did not say anything. Neither one took questions.

And we don't know when we're going to see Biden again. He is back home here in Wilmington about 15 minutes away, back to you.

MACCALLUM:  Peter, thank you very much. Let's take it around the horn here in the room. Juan, starting with you, you know, just your general take on where things stand based on the reports by John Roberts and Peter Doocy.

And also, I want to get your take on why you think Kamala Harris has been so far in the background during the course of so much of this.

WILLIAMS:  Well, just very quickly on Kamala Harris. I think it is pretty clear that this is a moment for the principles to speak last night when we saw President Trump come out -- what time was that --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS:  You could see Vice President Pence doing a little cleanup afterwards, you know, we believe in the process and the like. It's not about stealing. But he had a secondary role. And I think Kamala Harris -- secondary role today. But I think the key thing that I take away from so much of this is the Trump campaign wants to stop counting in Pennsylvania because I guess they think they are losing.

And then they want to keep counting in Arizona because they think they are losing. But it is a contradictory impulse. And I think it reveals something about a strategy that is getting to be a little desperate in this moment.

The other thing that I would say that is so important to me is that if you look, we were watching Bill Hemmer earlier.

And he was talking about, you know, various areas of Pennsylvania. But if you look at the map right now and you look at Biden winning in Arizona, likely in Nevada, Michigan, and Wisconsin. He does not even need Pennsylvania to claim the presidency of the United States. So to me, this is all, you know, a moment when you have to just kind of, I think, go back to what you heard from Vice President Biden today, which is you know what, this is a democracy.

Let's celebrate. Let's hold hands and go forward. Let's stop with the divisive nature of just picking on each other and calling names as if it's never going to stop.

MACCALLUM:  Jesse.

WATTERS:  Only one thing I want to just challenge Juan on. The Trump campaign did not say they want to stop the count in Pennsylvania. They said I want to stop the count in Pennsylvania until we can get our poll watchers in there to observe the mail-in's being counted. There is a big difference there. The one thing I think the Trump supporters should just listen to and have a little confidence is this.

What we are hearing from the Trump campaign is based on math. It's based on data, and it's based on their internal polling, which so far has been very accurate. They said they were going to win Florida by about two and they were going to be dead even in all the battlegrounds. And they have been. So when they say, for instance, in Arizona that the outstanding vote there of 650,000.

Many of them are coming from same-day voters, which Trump was winning by

60-70 percent. They only need to do 58 percent and they will take the lead in Arizona by Friday. That is good because they can't just have Arizona.

They have to have Pennsylvania, too. Right now, they are ahead 400,000 in Pennsylvania. Their math says that if they continue to count the legally cast votes, they will maintain that lead.

But just for a second, if there was a Republican county, deep red, being over seen by a Republican guy, Republican mayor, Republican governor with a Republican secretary of state that had been litigating the Democrats all year long about what to do and what not to do, and they were kicking observers out of the places that they were counting 150,000 provisional ballots.

MACCALLUM:  Yup.

WATTERS:  For a whole day almost? Like, was it, like, 12 hours? This would be such an outrageous, un-democratic thing to have happen in the country, in Philadelphia.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS:  The city of brotherly love where this country started.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS:  There is no evidence of fraud.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS:  Juan, you don't know that, because there have been no poll watchers.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS:  I don't that the sky is not going to fall. Come on.

WATTERS:  Legally, you're allowed to watch the ballots being counted.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM:  Let them watch and count every single vote that comes in Arizona and see where everybody ends up.

WATTERS:  Exactly.

MACCALLUM:  Dana?

PERINO:  Just one quick is that indecision on the presidential level has masked what was a big failure that we will get a chance to talk to a little bit. On the Democrats side for the Senate, House races, things like that and even ballot initiative across the country that really -- well, except for the drugs stuff, went conservative.

MACCALLUM:  Greg.

GUTFELD:  Well, the good news is I think Trump basically has won Georgia, although the governor, Stacey Abrams, is saying not so fast. I would like -

- and I will hold hands and go forward if Joe Biden wins. But you have to remember that these are the same people that for four years were pushing Russian collusion with no evidence. Remember the dossier.

So when you want to play nice because you are winning, we understand that.

But when you lost, oh, boy, did you lose badly? I mean, you guys hit the streets. You guys rioted. You guys looted. So forgive me if, you know, we want to fight. Because remember, you know, Trump is popular among a lot of very famous coaches like Bobby Knight. And why is that, because they fight bad calls.

You know, they will throw a chair or two, because they are actually fighting for their players. And Trump is fighting not just fighting for himself but for his voters. He doesn't want them cheated. So I think it's not necessarily a strategy, Juan. It is just how he is. And that is to fight and to fight hard through the very end and leave nothing on the field, a phrase that I just coined.

MACCALLUM:  I think he sees all of the faces of all those people that he has talked to in these rallies over the last week and is, you know, obviously very emotional about how this has all gone, thinking that he was ahead in the beginning of the night and then going through the pullback in the later part of the night, so anyway, more to come as we come back.

The presidential race is still too close to call, as you know, looking at these numbers, some media predictions that Joe Biden would win in a landslide. What happened to those? Greg's monologue is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: One thing was clear about the election. We know who the losers are, the pollsters and the media, the cannibal twins who feed off each other's manufactured delusions and make a neat profit off them. It works like this. For nearly half a decade, the media labels a candidate and by extension his supporters as racist that silences those voters, so the polls reflect a false picture. I mean, why would you tell the truth to strangers if that truth is deemed socially unacceptable.

Meanwhile, riots ensue as another consequence of that smear as though America deserves it under Trump. Yet even though they stuck the evil white man tag on Trump, his popularity left in this election among Latinos, black men and black women. Again, if Trump is racist, man he sucks at it. He's no Joy Reid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOY REID, HOST, MSNBC: If somehow they managed to stumble into the Supreme Court, did any of you guys trust Uncle Clarence and Amy Coney Barrett and those guys to actually follow the letter of the law? No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Wow. So, there was that? But to piss you off, Trump is racist was the tentpole hoax where every other hateful smear found its shade. Imagine how many more Blacks, Latinos and yes Whites would have voted for Trump if an honest media had took an axe to that poll, which is why they didn't.

Speaking of polls, you wonder why no one trust this outcome, including Trump, when you keep being lied to? How can you trust anyone? No wonder pollsters never ask if you trust polls. How can you go to bed seeing one result and wake up to a new one that saves the day for the media's choice and not be a little suspicious? So don't blame Trump. Blame the media pollster industrial complex. I compare them to snake oil salesman, but that's unkind of snakes and salesman. Because whatever the media's pollsters are selling, nobody's going to buy it ever again.

I said that, by the way in 2016, Jesse, so I was wrong then. If people in normal jobs are as wrong as the media and pollsters, they would be out of a job, Jesse.

WATTERS: Yes, but I think you're going to go and four more years, you're going to get cooked poles. There's no accountability in that industry.

They've been wrong a lot, and they never change their internal sampling.

They were even more wrong in 2020 than they were in 2016.

I don't want to name names, but I did a little analysis, and you know who you are out there. I might name some names on Saturday night in "WATTERS'

WORLD" because trust me, when you have a poll designed to depress Trump supporters because you put a sample of 49 percent Democrats into that poll, the President's never going to do well in a poll that's half sampled with Democrats. So, that's designed to think you know, you're in Wisconsin, and you see a poll and ABC News, Washington Post, there I said it, had Donald Trump losing by 17 points.

So, you say yourself, why do I even need to vote? I mean, it's a foregone conclusion. And it's sad. And it's not just the polling industry, it's the media industry at large. This was going to be a landslide victory. What was it, a nine or 10 percent national election? No, it was two to three percent.

So, again, they got the last two elections wrong, they got Coronavirus wrong, the Russia hoax, and then they covered up for the big guy right at the home stretch. You don't know what kind of damage that did but we'll never find out.

GUTFELD: Dana, if pollsters put -- are putting their thumb on the scale, are they doing it by accident that they don't even know they're doing it?

PERINO: Yes, I look forward to the autopsy of that --

GUTFELD: You're a sick woman. We have to kill them first.

PERINO: You know, I like data. I like to look at the science, like the social science that we had. Does it needs to be revisited? Perhaps. I mean, do they have half a cent -- 50 -- 49 percent Democrats because there's that many Democrats in the district. I don't know.

There's a -- I think it has a lot of improvement to do but I also think that everybody keep in mind, look at their average. Don't just take one poll. Like, take a look at the average. And if you look at Tom Bevin, he runs Real Clear Politics. For example, Pennsylvania, they had it one point up for Biden at the end the night before.

WATTERS: But the only reason that came in was because of the last week, you put in InsiderAdvantage, you put in Susquehanna and you put in Trafalgar, and that really narrows the gap.

PERINO: Well, again, that's why I was looking -- you know, I try to look at the average. And I don't think that this outcome is that entirely unbelievable at this point. But I do think also, the other thing about the media is, there was this like rumor that disinformation was the reason that President Trump was winning in Miami Dade County, not the fact that he had actually worked his tail off and that you had Latinos for Trump and Cubans for Trump who are down there.

And even -- Al Sharpton said that Cuban Americans are susceptible to propaganda about socialism. Well, why do you think that might be? Because they fled socialism.

GUTFELD: Yes. And New York was susceptible to Tawana Brawley propaganda.

Juan, what do you make of the fact of the shy voters syndrome? Is there any way pollsters can figure that out?

WILLIAMS: Well, sure. I mean, look, I don't think that there were necessarily so many shy. I think you had people who weren't necessarily part of the voter pool before who might have come out. I think he might have drawn out some new people. We set a record in terms of voter turnout yesterday, that's for Republicans and Democrats. It was amazing how many people voted yesterday. It's good news.

But look, to your point, I think obviously, there was no blue wave. And you saw some of the pollsters saying that that was going to be a possibility.

It didn't happen. But, you know, in general, I have to agree with Dana Perino. I think that if you look at 2018, they were on target and saying there was going to be a blue wave, and there was the blue wave in 2018.

GUTFELD: There always is -- in that.

WILLIAMS: Well, not in every time. But I just want to say, you know, I also think, how can you guys aren't talking about like, the people I talked to.

The people on the House Republican side, they thought House Republicans were going to have a bad night.

GUTFELD: That's the next block.

WILLIAMS: I know, BUT I'm just saying, you listen to President Trump, he said, we're going to win the House, we're going to win the Senate, we're going to win, win, win. He was predicting that. It didn't happen.

WATTERS: Well, I think they kept the Senate, didn't they?

WILLIAMS: No, he was predicting they would get the House.

GUTFELD: Martha, last word, Martha.

WATTERS: I'm talking about the Senate.

MACCALLUM: Well, you know, I think that Michael Moore is probably the best pollster around.

GUTFELD: I agree.

MACCALLUM: Because Michael Moore said, look, take the number, cut it in half --

GUTFELD: Yes, absolutely right.

MACCALLUM: And then, maybe go down another point. He has had a pretty good read on the way things are going. And the other thing that we see in this is that when you look at the popular vote, look at how very, very close this is. It's time for both sides to wake up and realize the reality of the other side. And that there's, you know, half of America, very supportive of President Trump, very supportive of his policies for a number of reasons.

And I think that the media and the pollsters need to wake up and figure out a way to reach these people. No one is going to pay any attention to them the next time around. They need to completely regroup.

GUTFELD: You're right. Or just hire Michael Moore as your pollster because he's never been wrong. Coming up, Democrats had high hopes for the Senate, but it looks like it's staying in Republican hands.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Democrats are hoping to flip the Senate, but it looks like that will be out of reach. Here's the current balance of power where if things hold, Republicans will retain their majority. Greg, it was good news for the Republicans last night. Really, I think they beat not only the pollsters, they beat the eyes because they had so many more Republicans running.

Mitch McConnell long ago said that his primary job, and he won last night, was to make President Obama a one-term president. So, should he do the same thing with Biden or should he work with him?

GUTFELD: Well, I think if Biden wins, he will be the first like lame-duck president to cut -- lame duck when he enters, which is going to be interesting. But I think you know, again, you had these -- you had to two races in which the Democrats spent like $200 million.

And so, imagine how rich -- we we're talking about this. The consultants got off that because there's no consultant that encouraged you -- encourages you to spend less money. There's that -- you're overdoing it, save some money. No, they're like they will feed, and so they just got so rich off these up these races, $200 million. Imagine what you could do with

$200 million, Juan. Imagine.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. Maybe I would go talk to Martha MacCallum.

MACCALLUM: You can figure it out.

WILLIAMS: Martha --

MACCALLUM: It's very expensive to talk to me.

WILLIAMS: That's what I was saying. Didn't I just say that? OK, so, as I said, tremendous success last night in the Senate races for the Republicans, but to where they lost, Colorado, Arizona. Arizona was a big deal. So, what does that tell you in terms of playing in purple states and Republicans?

MACCALLUM: Well, I think Arizona is a complicated situation for Republicans and for President Trump. They're still saying that the outcome there is different and Martha McSally has also suggested that, you know, the outcome she doesn't believe. You know, that'll probably work its way out over the next couple of days.

But overall, I find it very interesting that, you know, President Trump could potentially lose, and the Republicans could hold the Senate. Although that scenario was out there, I think the main belief was that if President Trump prevailed, then the Senate would be able to also have that strength.

But that Division I find very interesting.

I also just want to mention in terms of spending money. Michael Bloomberg spent hundreds of billions of dollars on his own campaign, $100 million -- I mean, there was I think on the Republican side, fear when it came out that he was going to spend $100 million on ads in Florida. It got him nothing, because he lost Florida.

And I just think that, you know -- I mean for him, you know, speaking about 100, it's like, just flick a little dust off your knee and $100 million is not a problem for him, but it's just emotional. It's got to be a little bit of a dream.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, in the previous segment, we're talking about the House -- clearly the House Democrats, but also the House Republicans thought that the Democrats might pick up eight to 15 seats. They didn't. What happened?

PERINO: No, the polls said that.

WATTERS: Well, strong performance by House Democrats. And the state legislators, the Republicans did not lose one state legislature, so that's good for redistricting. And it looks like the Senate stays red from I think most people's understanding there. But I care more about the big kahuna, the White House. I think everybody cares about that race. And then I will cede my time to Dana Perino loves talking about House and Senate races.

PERINO: I love it.

WILLIAMS: You know, I was -- let's get to the money, Dana, because I think that the Democrats made it real personal going after McConnell in Kentucky, going after Lindsey Graham in South Carolina, huge -- I mean record amount of money.

PERINO: OK, so the money, what a waste, right? They have these ego trips where they think they're going to take out somebody like Mitch McConnell with Amy McGrath and they spend $100 million. Jamie Harrison, bright young guy down in South Carolina, but he wasn't going to beat Lindsey Graham. And another $100 million.

But the person I wanted to tip my hat to is Susan Collins of Maine. When she voted for Brett Kavanaugh, this opponent of her, Sara Gideon, said I'm going after her on that vote alone. And Susan Collins kept at it. She won by eight points. They had her down by 15 in the Quinnipiac poll just before. And they spent $93 billion in Maine trying to take her out. She won.

WILLIAMS: All right, much more to come on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Welcome back, everybody. Let's get our final thoughts. All right, Martha. I think a lot of people in the audience asking a very similar question. When do you think we will know?

MACCALLUM: I think that we're probably going to get Nevada either tomorrow

-- late tonight or midday tomorrow, and that could tell the tale. But I think that this is going to drag on for a little while. And my final thought is that 2020 has basically all of us have been wrong about every single thing.

GUTFELD: Not me.

MACCALLUM: And we should all expect maybe one or two more twists in this story before it ends so stay tuned. Stay tuned. I don't know what's coming, but I know that I thought Coronavirus was going to be over by Mother's Day.

WATTERS: People have thought that Donald Trump was cornered several times in the last four years, Juan, and you never know. You never know.

WILLIAMS: You know, maybe this election told us more about America than Trump. I just think we're a very divided country, Jesse, rural, urban, men and women. Even I noted yesterday, 64 percent of white working-class men voted for Trump but 60 percent of white women with a college degree voted for Biden. It's just a lot of division around here.

WATTERS: All right, Dana Perino.

GUTFELD: That's what elections are for.

PERINO: One of these days, we'll get a chance to delve into these ballot initiatives like in California as a very liberal state legislature, but almost all of those ballot initiatives went for the conservative position.

WATTERS: Didn't they legalize mushrooms or --

PERINO: I mean, except for the drugs.

WATTERS: OK, Greg.

GUTFELD: I'm actually -- I'm a generally very optimistic person about this.

So, you got to take the long view if you're a viewer. The Senate is going to keep Joe in check, right?

WATTERS: Are you assuming Joe is winning?

GUTFELD: I'm saying -- I'm going to assume he -- if you look at it right now, he's in a good position.

WATTERS: OK.

GUTFELD: So, I'm -- so if that's the case, the Senate will keep him in check. There's no blow out even more, there's no mandate. That's why you don't see a lot of gloating going on, you see a bit of confusion and sadness. But even more, if you think Trump is going away, this is just a second act. right? 2020 is the second act. 2024 is the third act.

WILLIAMS: No. No. Stop it.

GUTFELD: By the way, by the way, Trump presidency was a first, Trump as an ex-president is first, is another first. And that's going to impact all of us in media, people who were on networks, people on -- we're going to have dueling presidents. He's not going to fade away. He's going to be campaigning. He's going to be doing the rallies.

He understands this country and how people feel. He's not going away. And I think this country is actually less divided than we think we are because he did great among minorities, and he has lots --

WILLIAMS: Oh, minorities did not vote for Donald Trump.

WATTERS: All right, he did well with them, Juan. And again, just so you know, hold the lead until Pennsylvania, keep counting the votes in Arizona, you punch your ticket back for four more years. Martha has to go leave us and get ready for special coverage. "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

GUTFELD: Trump 2024.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "ONE MORE THING." So, I had to tell you about this. You know, yesterday we went over and we did the show over in Liberty State Park, and then Juan and I got on this boat with Dagen McDowell, and a couple of other folks like Caroline and Jojo. And we're coming across, we're rushing because they're like, Juan is got to be on set at 6:53, running, running, running.

We get up to the top of the ramp at Chelsea Piers, and the gate is closed.

And so, there's no one around. This is what happened. Dagen was in a skirt, and we all climbed up and over this thing because we were so determined. I cut my foot. It was bleeding like crazy when we got here. Then, Juan hopped over, Jojo went, so this is what we do, people.

WILLIAMS: I got to say, Dana, you're pretty athletic.

PERINO: I was -- I was pretty good. All right, Jesse.

WATTERS: Did Juan wear --

GUTFELD: That's trespassing.

WATTERS: Did Juan have a life jacket on?

GUTFELD: No. They violated so many laws.

WATTERS: Juan is so tired, he can't even laugh at my jokes.

WILLIAMS: No, no. I think you're --

GUTFELD: Yes, that's right.

WATTERS: Yes. I thought it was pretty funny. Anyway, people are stressed out, the producers picked this one for me because I didn't have it in me to pick a real "ONE MORE THING." Here's a guy stressed out angry, just walking around holding glass. Exploding glass syndrome. You know, what, it wasn't his day. A lot of people feel like that.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: Greg.

GUTFELD: Sure. Let's do this, or not. I guess everybody is tired.

PERINO: Animals are great.

GUTFELD: All right, no Animals Are Great. OK, well, you know what --

WATTERS: I hate these people.

GUTFELD: What? No. I've got a video but I guess somebody is asleep. OK, so we found -- I have a camera that takes a picture of the future of the Biden presidency if he wins. So, here it is. It's the media if he's elected. They will return --

PERINO: On the (INAUDIBLE)

GUTFELD: On the (INAUDIBLE). They will return to the hibernation that they enjoyed so much under the Obama presidency. And the outrage each day industry will go, go away, and we will never hear about Hunter Biden again.

WILLIAMS: All right.

WATTERS: They have no material.

PERINO: Juan.

WILLIAMS: All right, so I've got a whale of a tale to tell you today. Take a look. That's a metro train that jumped the tracks and crashed through the rail of its elevated platform. Instead of crashing to the street below, the empty train ended up perched on the tail of a plastic whale sculpture.

Such a phenomenal sight, people began to gather, and the police had to tell them, this is dangerous. The train could actually fall down. No one was injured. So, that's your tail of whale for a post-Election Day.

PERINO: Hey, everybody. That is it for us. We will see you back here tomorrow at THE FIVE. We love you all.

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