Grenell: NKorea feels pressure of Trump's tough diplomacy
U.S. Ambassador to Germany Ric Grenell weighs in after Trump withdrawals from the North Korea summit and shares insight about United State-Germany relations on 'The Story.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," May 25, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: Absolutely riveting to watch this, this morning at a New York City courthouse. It played out like an epic Miramax movie. I'm Martha MacCallum, and this is "The Story." The King of Hollywood--
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speak out right back here, Harvey.
MACCALLUM: and with those days cut to this today. "Fox News Alert". Disgraced movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, now in a New York City courtroom after surrendering to police earlier today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harvey!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come over here.
MACCALLUM: That's a different kind of red carpet. The man who controlled Hollywood for nearly 30 years, who won 81 Oscars and by his own admission could "make you, or break you or bury you." He looked stunned as he listened to the terms today laid out by the judge.
Weinstein left the courthouse in his light blue V-neck sweater vest and ankle bracelet. And lighter in the wallet by a million dollars that allowed him to live in New York and Connecticut, under surveillance.
He's accused of three counts, including rape in the first degree, criminal sexual act in the first degree, and rape in the third degree.
JOAN ILLUZZI-ORBON, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY, MANHATTAN: The defendant used his position, money, and power to lure young women into situations where he was able to violate them sexually.
MACCALLUM: More than 80 women involved in the media industry has said he harassed, abused, or assaulted them. The first to come forward was actress Rose McGowan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he stole your life, do you get it back today?
ROSE MCGOWAN, ACCUSER OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN: I think today is a damn good start, yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACCALLUM: Laura Ingle was at the courthouse today and she joins us with the story. Hi, Laura.
LAURA INGLE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Well, it was quite a scene today in Lower Manhattan, we had two different locations where we saw Harvey Weinstein, the first when he turned himself in on the police precinct very early this morning to face those criminal charges against him, which you mentioned.
Weinstein was greeted by throngs of reporters and cameras which capture this historic moment in the MeToo movement, as the man who's so many women have accused a forcible sexual assault turned himself in, he left in handcuffs after being fingerprinted and headed to his arraignment in criminal court. He could eventually face up to 25 years behind bars if convicted of the crime that he was charged with today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ORBON: The defendant is before the court charged with two violent B felonies for two separate forcible sexual assault against two different women.
INGLE: Weinstein, charged with rape in the first degree, criminal sexual assault in the first degree, rape in the third degree. All these charges stem from a grand jury investigation involving two different women who are among the nearly 80 who have accused Weinstein of sexual misconduct, ranging from inappropriate touching to rape. Weinstein's lawyer, Benjamin Brafman, says that Weinstein maintains that there was ever any nonconsensual encounters. Listen.
BENJAMIN BRAFMAN, ATTORNEY FOR HARVEY WEINSTEIN: Bad behavior is not on trial in this state. It's only if you intentionally committed a criminal act and Mr. Weinstein vigorously denies that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGLE: This was a pivotal moment for in the MeToo movement. Many of Weinstein's alleged victims have been on social media today, sending out messages of support to each other. Here's one of them, Asia Argento, tweeting this, "Today, Harvey Weinstein will take his first step on his inevitable descent into hell. We, the women, finally have real hope for justice.
Weinstein wrote a check, we've been told for $1 million in bail. He left here with a personal GPS devise on his body. He surrendered his passport, he's only allowed to travel to New York or Connecticut. He has until next Wednesday, Martha, to decide if will testify before the grand jury which is still investigating claims against him.
MACCALLUM: Laura, thank you very much. Here now with more, Mark Eiglarsh, he's a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. And Jessica Tarlov, senior director for research at Bustle.com, and a Fox News contributor. Welcome to both of you.
It really was a stunning moment for this whole movement today. To watch Harvey Weinstein in that courtroom, he seemed at points, Mark, to be floored by what the judge was saying. And there was a woman who was a detective who walked him in, she was standing right behind him through this whole thing. But you say that the prosecutors do not have a slam-dunk case here?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, MIAMI, FLORIDA: Well, they don't. In the court of public opinion, without question, guilty as can be, let's pick up the pitchforks and hang him in the Town Square.
But in the court of law, let's just make one thing clear. I'm not suggesting he's innocent, because I'm part of the public and I'm aware of the 80 plus allegations. But in the court of law, they're going to streamline this case and focus exclusively on that one victim, the other victim will be handled on a different trial.
But that one victim, and what are the specific allegations? DNA doesn't help because the defense is going to be, yes he did it, but she consented. So the whole case will come down to her single credibility. And I'm sure, Ben Brafman, who I know well, is going to do everything he can to destroy her credibility. And it's sad if she's telling the truth because that's how these cases are, but it's not a slam-dunk at all for prosecutors.
MACCALLUM: You know, Jessica, when you look at this, and one of the parts of the quote from Ben Brafman, who's a famous attorney, who has done a lot of very high-profile cases is that Mr. Weinstein did not invent the casting couch in Hollywood.
JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right. Yes, how could we be so angry at him he's just following a trend line, right? And that did not begin it. I'm not an attorney, so I can't speak to how this is going to go here. The court of public opinion is certainly speaking and I'm glad that these women are feeling some sort of indication at least to see this scene, and to know that Harvey Weinstein's life whether he goes to jail or not has been ruined.
It was interesting, I don't know if anyone else caught it. Asia Argento, spoke at the Cannes Film Festival a couple weeks ago, and she said to the audience there that this is a first step moving towards a resolution for these women but there are many more to continue to fall and point it out to the audience where there, obviously, were a number of men that she was also saying, we're watching you too.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
TARLOV: So it's a great day for women. Generally, for the women who have been harmed by Harvey Weinstein, and others in positions of power. And I totally agree with you about the imagery there at the female detective walking him, and Jodi Kantor, one of the New York Times journalists that broke this story pointed that out herself on Twitter.
MACCALLUM: However, though, Mark, you know there is a level -- I think of discomfort. And you know, we look at the Bill Cosby case for example, and I felt that it was good to watch that play out in a court of law, both sides presented their case. I think in that case in many ways, it came down to the drugs that were used, that were -- I think part of the reason that people found him guilty. And this is going to be another real test case for these situations because women have said, they didn't want to come forward because they didn't want to necessarily go through this process. And they knew that it was their word against his. You know, what legally is the possible precedent that is set by this case going forward with all these other cases?
EIGLARSH: There is a huge difference between the Bill Cosby case and this one. You hope it's the same outcome if you absolutely believe as do I that he's guilty of what's being alleged, but it's very different. What jurors relied upon in that case primarily, were Cosby's own words were in a civil deposition, he admitted to drugging a lot of these women.
In this case, this man is alleging "I didn't do it." He's claiming, "I had consent." So, the only difference between what the defense is alleging and what the prosecution is alleging is the state of mind of the alleged victim. What she did or said to lead Weinstein, to believe that this was not consensual. It's a very closed scenario.
MACCALLUM: Yes, it's quite a day and just stunning to see Harvey Weinstein, the former King of Hollywood as I said --
EIGLARSH: Yes.
MACCALLUM: -- in this position today. But we will see as Mark points out, this is by it's far from a slam dunk. So, we'll see where it goes. Thank you very much, great to see both of you tonight.
TARLOV: Thanks, have a great weekend.
EIGLARSH: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up, will a North Korea summit now take place or should it? We're going to get perspective from a top Trump diplomat, US ambassador to Germany Rick Grenell.
Plus, why President Trump is now questioning when the government may have started what he calls spying on his presidential campaign. Veteran Washington journalist Byron York, joins us with the latest development.
And longtime Clinton advisor Mark Penn, who is now under fire after sharing his opinion which questioned the Mueller probe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: Now, let me ask you though, and let's be blunt about it, what exactly is Mark Penn selling?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Mark Penn, here to respond moments away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So President Trump, continuing to press the issue of whether the government under the Obama administration was spying on his presidential campaign. And maybe most importantly, when? That process may have begun.
On Twitter today, the president writing this, "The Democrats are now alluding to the concept that having an informant placed in an opposing party's campaign is different than having a spy, as illegal as that may be." He writes, "But what about an informant who has paid a fortune and who sets up way earlier than the Russia hoax. We'll break that down in a moment.
So, all this comes down to questions of which federal agencies did what and when? And what actually was the beginning point? Why did they get involved? This former federal official claimed, they weren't spying on the Trump campaign, they were keeping tabs on the Russians heading into the 2016 election.
Joining me now Byron York, chief political correspondent for the Washington Examiner, and a Fox News contributor who has written almost daily following the course of this whole thing as we have watched it play out.
Byron, what did you think in particular about what the president said today? Is he on firm ground with that tweet or not?
BYRON YORK, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I thought he is a little ahead of where the rest of us are including me on what we know. I mean, we know that this informant got in touch with three officials of the Trump campaign, Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, and Sam Clovis.
We know he tried to insinuate himself into the campaign that way. We think that perhaps, he was either trying to find out what if anything they knew about Russian hacking or perhaps he was trying to plant information with them, we know those things.
On the other hand, we don't know when it started, we don't know when the FBI became interested in that particular project. So when the president said, it started a lot earlier than we knew, we're not clear about that. And when the president said they was paid a lot of money, we don't know about that either.
MACCALLUM: All right, so in terms of when it started, that is a pretty important point thou. And what have we learned over the course of the last day or so about when that might have been and why does that matter?
YORK: Well, we do think it was earlier than we originally thought. Remember we had been told that the FBI counterintelligence investigation began on July 31st, 2016, very specific date when they filed the official papers to start an investigation. But we do know now that their interest in Carter Page, for example, went back much earlier on March 21st, 2016. President Trump -- Candidate Donald Trump went to the Washington Post Editorial Board and he told them that he was going to announce that day his list of foreign policy advisers and he read off four or five names and included them among those names Carter Page and George Papadopoulos.
And we know that Andrew McCabe, the number two at the FBI and James Comey himself then the head of the FBI briefed the Attorney General Loretta Lynch on Carter Page soon after that and also later briefed a much larger group of Obama Administration officials. They discussed whether to have what's called a defensive briefing that is to get in touch with the Trump Campaign and say, listen you've got somebody on your staff, maybe there's some questions about some of the things they've done. They decided not to do that.
MACCALLUM: Let me jump in there for just one second, Byron, because that's a moment that really interests me because there's this meeting. You know, well, should we let someone know in the campaign because ostensively the premier concern is whether or not the Russians might have an influence on the campaign, right? So there's a moment where you have the opportunity to intervene and to potentially blow the whistle on them and to give people a heads up. You know, some of the stuff you might be reading on the internet might be coming from the right, whatever it is. But that decision was made in that room do not let them in on it and to me there's only a couple of reasons why that could be. What's your interpretation of that?
YORK: Well, you're absolutely right. That is a critical decision because remember we've heard from a lot of former officials who said listen, this investigation was an investigation of the Russians. It was not an investigation of the Trump Campaign, and if it was indeed an investigation of the Russians, you would wonder why they did not give this defensive briefing to the Trump campaign. So the answer is actually we don't know.
And what's also interesting is the first discussion I mentioned was just Comey, McCabe's speaking to Attorney General Lynch. Later though, they briefed what's called the National Security Council Principals Committee which is really big deal, Secretary of State, Treasury, Defense, Head of the CIA the U.N. Ambassador, the White House Chief of Staff and a number of others were all briefed on this Carter Page stuff. And again, a decision was made not to give a defensive briefing to the Trump Campaign.
MACCALLUM: Yes. And in fact, they didn't let Mr. Trump in on anything until after he was elected. Then they decided he had to know about the dossier because it might be dangerous if he didn't. Very interesting, Byron, thank you so much. Good to see you tonight.
YORK: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So my next guest, a former Adviser to Bill and Hillary Clinton is coming under fire from actually several very prominent Democrats for criticizing the Mueller investigation. Mark Penn wrote an op-ed this week entitled stopping Robert Mueller to protect us all and it's one in a series of pieces that he has written questioning this whole process. He says that this whole thing was born out of "hysteria." And now MSNBC's Joe Scarborough is very fired up and angry about that and questioning Mr. Penn's integrity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: What exactly is Mark Penn selling?
Does he have a Fox News contract? Is he riding for conservative Web sites? I want to know as you know in Washington D.C. often when people do strange things like this, creatures of the swap, they're doing it for a reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Here now to defend himself is Mark Penn. Mark, good to see you tonight. Are you getting paid by Fox News? Not that that's really a bad thing. Lots of very upstanding individuals get paid by Fox News. Are you under contract?
MARK PENN, FORMER BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON ADVISER: No, let me just say the various attacks that have been made when I was in political life having a Fox contract is the funniest but no I did not have a Fox contract or not being paid by Fox in any way.
MACCALLUM: All right, so Joe Scarborough, Neera Tanden, a bunch of prominent Democrats, well, Joe is an independent but some of the people that you worked with on the Clinton campaign over the course of the years or who subsequently worked on the campaign after you left, they think there's something wrong with you.
PENN: Well, you know, those people were not there in '98 when we had to fight an independent counsel and where our White House was turned upside down and people's lives turned upside down. And so my interest here isn't good government, better politics. You know taking the criminalization out of politics unless you really have, the firmest of evidence which certainly this investigation didn't have. I think it's only reasonable to start to question this investigation after you look at the Strzok-Page text. I mean, that alone blew this thing open. Once this report comes from the Independent Counsel --
MACCALLUM: But those folks would say, you know, big deal. So they criticize the President, they cannot like the President and still do their job.
PENN: Oh that insurance policy text really suggested something else that was going on here. And you have this full investigation now going on by the I.G. of the DOJ. When that report comes out, I think that's going to blow the whole thing wide open. Now if that report is soft, maybe I'll have to take back some of my opinions. But my opinions are based on the experiences I had and just a fair reading of the evidence that's come out here which really raises questions. How did they start this thing? When did they start it? How did they get powers to create a government within a government that's not accountable to the attorney general, Congress or the president?
MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean, the Mueller report is not out yet, the I.G. report is not out yet and yet conclusions have been completely drawn by some of the people that we're talking about. They're done. They've seen it all, they know what the evidence is, they've decided what the outcome is going to be on this and they see you as on the wrong side. In fact, at one point Mr. Scarborough said this morning, you know, the problem with Mark Penn, you know, spouting this stuff is that some Democrats will believe -- will look at him and say he's a Democrat and he says that and you might change their minds. That's what he said is so scary about this.
PENN: Look, I wish in '98 more Republicans had been willing to say hey this investigation is wrong, we shouldn't be disrupting the country for this. I want more Democrats to go out and say that now. These are real questions that have been raised and until they're settled until we get to the bottom of how this was started, you've got to take them really seriously, even more seriously if not as serious as the allegations made about Russia collusion.
MACCALLUM: And I've asked you I think every time we've spoken, you know, what your motivation is and you have always said you know, that you lived through 1998 and that so many people get swept up in it. There -- you know, these young staffers paying their legal bills and they -- it just makes them never want to work in politics again.
PENN: You know, I've been glad to see people come up to me and say, hey they really enjoy reading both sides of this. I see people having debates within families which is the right thing.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely. I think everybody is.
PENN: And I've gotten some very touching letters from people who went to jail based on previous independent counsel investigations who appreciate an honest perspective on this.
MACCALLUM: We try to keep an open mind and look at both sides of this story and we'll be following it until it reaches its conclusion and then we can all make our judgments about how it ends up. Mark Penn, good to see you tonight. Thank you very much. So up next is the Singapore summit still on?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me see what happens. We're talking to them now. It was a very nice statement they put up. We'll see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So where is this thing ultimately going? U.S. Ambassador to Germany Rick Grenell joins me in a moment live from Germany. And a journalist just spent three years touring our country to get a heart -- to get to the heart of what's really concerning everyday Americans and what he found out may surprise you. Charlie LeDuff here with his story coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE LEDUFF, AMERICAN JOURNALIST: Here's a coyote a smuggler. He's got two women on the back of his jet ski. Yes, they're using jet skis now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
EMANUEL: Back from America's News Headquarters, I'm Mike Emanuel. Two major Exit Polls say Irish voters back the repeal of the strict constitutional ban on abortions in the republic. Both polls are predicting a landslide victory for the yes forces. The poll for RTE Irish television projects supports at nearly 70 percent while a poll for Irish times shows 68 percent are backing repeal of the ban. The Exit Polls are only projections. The official vote count starts tomorrow with result expected by afternoon. Authority say another eruption at Hawaii Kilauea Volcano has sent an ash cloud about 10,000 feet into the air. Residents living to the southwest of the volcano have been warned the wind may carry ash their way. Lava continues to flow into the ocean coming from the summit of Kilauea and spewing from fissures in the ground, dozens of homes have been destroyed. I'm Mike Emanuel in Washington, now back to "The Story" in New York.
MACCALLUM: President Trump signaling today that the Singapore summit could still happen. The news coming just 24 hours after he abruptly called off the historic meeting next month with Kim Jong-un. And the rogue regime claims that it destroyed its nuclear testing site. In moments, U.S. Ambassador Rick Grenell is here exclusively to respond, but first Chief White House Correspondent John Roberts reports from the White House tonight. Hi John!
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening to you. It's less than two and a half weeks from now, but President Trump this morning said that there is still a chance that the summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un could still go ahead on June the 12th. This after an uncharacteristically diplomatic response from North Korea overnight to the letter that the President sent to Kim Jong-un yesterday morning canceling the summit. The President excited enough to tweet this morning, "very good news to receive the warm and productive statement from North Korea. We will soon see where it will lead, hopefully too long and enduring prosperity in peace. Only time and talent will tell. And this as the president was leaving for Annapolis this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We'll see what happens. We're talking to them now. It was a very nice statement they put up. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. It could even be this well. We're talking to them now they very much want to do it, we'd like to do it. We're going to see what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: North Korea's statement that it issued in response to that letter that the president sent yesterday morning to Kim Jong-un, they said that they are ready to talk any time in any place and are willing to give the United States time and opportunities to resurrect the June 12th summit. This comes after an administration official briefed the press yesterday on the situation with North Korea saying that Pyongyang had been acting in bad faith with statements and actions.
One of those actions last weekend after an agreement with North Korea to meet in Singapore and hammer out the details of the summit, the White House sent the Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Joe Hagan and a team to Singapore. That team waited on the ground for three days and the North Koreans never showed up. This letter that the President sent yesterday and then North Korea's response overnight really is demonstrating what the President believes is the art of the deal when it comes to international diplomacy.
But there are some Democrats who don't like the president's negotiating style. Listen to what Democrat California Brad Sherman said earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BRAD SHERMAN, D-CALIFORNIA: We announced we were delaying the summit to a date not designated. And say the reason for it was that they didn't show up to the planning meeting. If they don't show up to the planning meeting, it's hard to plan and get things done by June 12th. But by canceling it, it makes them look like they're more interested in peace than we are. That's a mistake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So Sherman is saying that the reason that the president should have given for canceling the summit was that the North Koreans didn't show up to that meeting in Singapore last week.
But the White House told us and the president told us the reason why he cancelled the summit was because the Deputy Foreign Minister Choe Son Hui not only insulted the vice president, calling him a political dummy and that his comments were stupid.
But also came to the point of threatening nuclear war with the United States if diplomacy doesn't work out. So we have competing narratives here for why this thing was canceled. But the bottom line, Martha, it may be getting back on track.
MACCALLUM: Wait and watch, so fascinating. John, thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: And here now in a story exclusive, newly confirmed U.S. Ambassador to Germany, Ric Grenell. Ambassador, great to see you this evening. What do you think, do you think this Singapore summit will happen?
RIC GRENELL, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO GERMANY: Well, I think as President Trump said, let's wait and see. This is an issue that has frustrated many administrations before the Trump administration, and I'm very pleased to see the action that we've seen over the last couple months.
Look, this all started from President Trump doing really tough diplomacy with the Chinese. We've seen the Chinese raised their hand for sanctions at the U.N. multiple times, and yet, not really implement those things.
And what President Trump did early on in his administration was signal that diplomacy was going to be tough, and he pressured the Chinese to actually implement the sanctions that they had voted for previously, in consecutive years.
And so what we saw pretty quickly was, once the Chinese decided to implement the sanctions, we saw action. We saw the North Koreans feel the squeeze, feel the squeeze of President Trump's diplomacy, and come to the table. And so now we have to have clear eyes and wait and see what happens but I'm very confident that this president knows how to negotiate.
I've seen him personally negotiate and he also knows how to really use both the carrot and the stick, if you will, and he's been very successful at that so let's wait and see.
MACCALLUM: So is that what we're seeing with the ZTE deal, because now there's word that they have come up with the deal and you have to wonder if that, sort of, you know, greases the wheels a little bit to get this North Korea thing back on track. Do you see them as connected at all?
GRENELL: Look, I think that this president has signaled multiple times that he's going to fight for the American people and use all of the tools that the U.S. government has. He's not just going to make one argument but he is going to say as he said to President Xi early on, look, if you help us out with North Korea which is a very serious policy for us, it's a threat to the American people. If you help us out on North Korea, you're going to be able to get a better trade deal from us.
Those types of negotiation skills, to intermingle multiple issues, I think is a fantastic way to negotiate. I've waited a long time to see a president actually use all of the tools that the U.S. government has at its disposal, and this president has shown he is willing to do that.
MACCALLUM: All right. I want to put up a tweet that you sent May 8th, right when you first began your ambassadorship in Berlin. And here's a look at it. "As President Trump said, U.S. sanctions will target critical sectors of Iran's economy. German companies doing business in Iran should wind down operations immediately."
There's lots of corporate entanglement between Europe and Iran and they don not necessarily want to unwind that, ambassador.
GRENELL: Look, I think President Trump has been very clear about U.S. sanctions on Iran. And he's been very clear that companies get to choose. They can either choose to do business with the United States, or they can choose to do business with Iran but they're not going to be able to do both.
President Trump has been clear about that, Secretary Pompeo has been very clear about that.
What we're seeing here throughout Europe are companies telling us that, of course they are going to choose the United States. And when forced to make a decision about choosing either doing business with the mullahs, or doing business with the United States, every time they are going to choose to do business with the United States.
I think it's diplomat's duty to follow the president's directives and policies and to be out front. And all we are trying to do is present that choice to businesses throughout Europe. It's their choice, they can decide which government or which market they are going to want to play in, and at the end of the day, whatever they choose is their decision.
MACCALLUM: You are in a very consequential country in that endeavor and we look forward to seeing your work there. Ambassador Grenell, thank you. Great to see you tonight.
And coming up next, talk about investigative reporting.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So why am I paddling around in a rubber banana? Because you need to see it up close, this is ground zero. There's a wave of Central Americans pouring illegally into the United States.
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MACCALLUM: Journalist Charlie LeDuff is here on his journey across America and why he says our country is collapsing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: President Trump won the election targeting what he called the forgotten men and women of America.
But for the past three years, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Charlie LeDuff has traveled the country digging in to who they were and are and exactly who forgot about them. He once hit a golf ball from one end of to the other of his home city of Detroit to show how bleak and caustecize it really was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE LEDUFF, JOURNALIST: I'm committed because they are talking about reinventing the city. What does that mean with millions in budget cuts? What does the city even really look like block by block? Who lives here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: He chronicled the absurdity of the southern border situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEDUFF: Meet public enemy numero uno. A 12-year-old boy from Guatemala named Domingo. He and his mother were arrested by border patrol a few days earlier. They were processed, given a notice to appear in immigration court and then given a bus ticket to Los Angeles paid for by you, the taxpayer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Interesting. He wrote about it in his brand-new book, "S Show" I guess is what we're going to say even though--
(CROSSTALK)
LEDUFF: It's OK. You're not allowed to say it.
MACCALLUM: One of my favorite words actually.
(CROSSTALK)
LEDUFF: That's how stupid I am.
MACCALLUM: The country is collapsing and the ratings are great is the subtitle. Charlie LeDuff joins me now. Charlie, good to see you.
LEDUFF: Thanks for having me.
MACCALLUM: You know what, this is a fascinating journey that you have been on.
LEDUFF: You like it?
MACCALLUM: I do. And the chronicle corruption all over the place, you say graft goes on everywhere on America. Remember the New Orleans mayor went to prison for patting his pockets with hurricane Katrina money. And you on Detroit all of this different places where so many elected officials end up in jail. What's going on?
LEDUFF: Well, look, the way I see it, all of America is angry. There's one overriding thing they're angry about is the government. Pick your level. The police, the mayor, the county, the president. And Trump just -- the people that voted for Trump aren't the only forgotten once. I mean, if you add Trump plus Bernie, that's about 70 or 75 percent. And if they were women, it's probably 80 or 85 percent.
Things aren't going well no matter what number what people around the set they're not going well out there, we're not saving, the wages aren't going out. The new jobs that are being created, you know they are making new beds and wiping people's bottoms, which there's dignity in that but you cannot put a kid through college with that.
MACCALLUM: You talked about in Ferguson, you know, a young man who kind of hope to saved this guy's shop. And then you go in again looking for this young man D.J.
LEDUFF: Yes.
MACCALLUM: And the owner says I couldn't help him, I couldn't give him a job.
LEDUFF: Right.
MACCALLUM: And it just strikes me that there's this lack of sort of integrity and respect for each other. Those kind of things don't happen as much as they should, where he would say to himself, I need to do right by the kid, he really helped me out. Those moments just seem to disappear.
LEDUFF: Yes.
MACCALLUM: How do we get -- how do we get them back? It's not to say there aren't good people in the world but it happens too often.
LEDUFF: Well, you know, what we do, and it's part of this, but it's not a media book but part of it is the media, right. That part of this book is. What we can do, is that guy, his name is D.J. And I tried to find him. And if you are watching, call me. I respect the hell out of you.
This is a 25-year-old guy, dark, handsome, dreadlocked, the mask, and a piece right here. And instead of us using the telephoto lens, we went in there, and people trying to loot the store and light it on fire and he's tried to stop them. And he said, this is not what is about, this is not what we do. It's not with the Michael Brown thing is, right, and he didn't plug him, but, you know, he tried.
The police have abandoned the thing and he went in there and he tried. And I think that's who we are. And you know, once he left then the crowd through batteries at us and hit us with traffic cones, and naturally, you know, as an executive you'd want that because that's going to give you to a lot of clicks.
But you know, me and my partners Matt Phillips and Bob Shuttle Bauer (Ph), they are part of this book and all the stuff we did. We wanted to show D.J. And the more we can show D.J.'s, and in those hard times in American life, the more we're going to remember ourselves and respect him.
And that shop owner that did not give him the job after the first burning, they burned it to the ground.
MACCALLUM: You know, how we restore integrity in the government because what I find talking to people is that, the ones who seem to have it, they don't really stay that long. They go to Washington for a few years and then they say, you know, I'm not going to be able to change the state.
LEDUFF: I know this--
MACCALLUM: There's too much of a b's, the b's is way too big, it's too out of control. And you know, it just makes you wonder, is at the fall of Rome? I mean, do we ever fix this or is this history going to be 100 years from now that says, yes, that's what it looked like as it was going down?
LEDUFF: Well, you know, I mean, not to be too biblical about it but everything that humankind builds, falls. So it will come. Will it come now? I don't know. But democracy is a beautiful thing, it's a very patient thing. You just keep trying.
You know, I don't like to tell people, relax, it's going to get better. Your life comes and it goes, you owe to God that life back, right? So I don't expect people to be patient. But for God sake, don't bring things down. Don't steal things, don't hurt each other. Don't point guns at the police, right.
Because you know, you are a former soldier, he probably was to. That's the only government that listens to you is the police. You know what I mean? You call the congressman, he's not calling back.
MACCALLUM: Right.
LEDUFF: Mayor is not calling back.
MACCALLUM: Right. And they are the ones who are coming.
LEDUFF: Right. I don't feel they're knocking on the door because they can't take my liberty. But, you just got to use the ballot box. It's, you know, the king ships didn't work, tribalism can't work and something this large, communism didn't work. So pretty good system populated by grubby creeps that are called human beings that steal.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
LEDUFF: And I'm sick of it.
MACCALLUM: The worst form of government there, except all the others.
LEDUFF: Right.
MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Good luck with the book. It's fascinating. And I hope you'll come back because there's a lot more to talk about.
LEDUFF: If you are hiring, I could drive you around it and--
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Good to see you, Charlie. Thanks so much.
LEDUFF: Thank you. Hi, mom.
MACCALLUM: So coming up next, remembering the reason for this holiday weekend and the troops who died fighting for our freedom. How you can help veterans complete their next chapter, and their next mission in life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS MEEK, CHAIRMAN, SOLDIERSTRONG: The physical and psychological impacts of being able to get up out of the wheelchair and stand at eye level with the world again are profound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEEK: On September 11th 2001, I was running floor trading agreements for Goldman Sachs at ground zero in New York City. As I watch the first responders run into the carnage of that day I resolved to do give something back to those who served.
April 27th, 2011 was my daughter's fifth birthday, we celebrated like many families with cake and ice cream and without a care in the world.
Six thousand eight hundred miles away, army Sergeant Dan Rose was being Medevac from the battlefield to Kendujhar (Ph). The vehicle he was hit -- was in hit an IED and his injuries would rob him the ability to walk again.
Dan's experience that day was a personal reminder of how much we owe our veterans and how their sacrifices allow all of us to take for granted the lives we are blessed to live here.
MACCALLUM: I will never forget the say that Sergeant Dan Rose came to our studio to demonstrate how his soldier's suit allowed him to get up from his wheelchair and take the steps that he never dreamed he would be able to take again.
As Americans we must make sure that we can give back, but give back in a way that is uniquely American, that relies on this cutting edge technology and never take no for an answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So that was part of an interesting experience that we had on Capitol Hill this week, exploring new ways to empower the lives of our veterans through cutting edge technology.
And I have the privilege of speaking on behalf of SoldierStrong, an organization that I have been on the advisory board since 2014. And it aims to help injured heroes get back on their feet using this amazing new development and rehabilitation and technology.
And joining me is Chris Meek, he is the chairman and co-founder of SoldierStrong. He founded it and he works on it every single day. And he is a hero to me and to many who are helped by his work. Chris, great to see you this evening.
MEEK: Great to see you. Thanks for having me.
MACCALLUM: Thanks for being there.
MEEK: Yes.
MACCALLUM: You know, we were there to talk to the Health Science and Technology committee about this cutting edge technology, and how it can be integrated into what our -- into how we continue to serve our veterans. And you feel that the way that we work on technology for the battlefield has to be extended across that bridge until after they come home.
MEEK: Yes, absolutely. A lot of the devices that fund are originally funded through DARPA, which is the Department of Defense
MACCALLUM: Yes.
MEEK: And as you mentioned we give our warfare as the best absolute best technology we can on the battlefield. But once they come home and they face the V.A. system, there is really no DARPA for veterans back here. And so we're trying to fill that Death Valley gap with the help in the battlefield versus the care they receive here back home.
MACCALLUM: Yes. And there are American companies that are making -- you know, as I said during the hearing, you know, iron man isn't just in the movies. I mean, they are creating arms that are fully usable from the elbow to the wrist, all the way down to the fingers. Tell people a little bit about what can be done now that is so new and incredible.
MEEK: Well, now it's even going a step further. So the one device you mentioned actually is the only full range that includes the shoulder, but now they are hard wiring them into your brains, so you actually just think about it in the moves. Other things like virtual reality.
There's one veteran we worked with it at Vermont (Ph) University where he lost his arm in Vietnam, and through technology he put on through virtual reality, actually he turned a doorknob and he started to cry. It's actually the first time he'd actually felt a doorknob in 25 years.
And so to your point, science fiction is becoming science fact.
MACCALLUM: Let's just a moment with Dan Rose when he was in our studio a while back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN ROSE, U.S. ARMY VETERAN: Standing up was surreal. Like the (Inaudible) leg, you know, pushing up and standing up and being eye level with people again was just an amazing experience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: You know, the other side of this is government spending and how it's used, right. This technology is so psychologically beneficial, as Dan said it, and it can turn people's live around. You talk about the fact that 20 members, 20 veterans commit suicide every single day. This technology helps to improve their lives and we hope to prevent some of those lives from being lost in that horrific way.
MEEK: Yes, absolutely. And it's one thing to think about being able to stand and be eye level with the world again, and something that you and I would take for granted. But going that step further, we're actually working with some V.A. medical centers on a mental health study showing those benefits.
Obviously the medical benefits were there are things like reduce seeing urinary tract infection, increasing muscle and bone density, but there are things that you don't think about, the unseen wounds of war that they talk about.
MACCALLUM: We are going to see SoldierStrong this weekend at the Indy 500, right?
MEEK: We are. We are very fortunate to work with United Rentals, one of our major sponsors. And they are sponsor of Indy 500 team Rathal Letterman Lanigan and they watch the program called Turns for Troops. The web site is Turnsfortroops.com.
And what they do is for every lap that driver Graham Rahal completes throughout the entire Indy car season, United Rentals donate $50 to our program.
MACCALLUM: Our thanks to them and to him. It's an extraordinary event. You are going to be there this weekend so have fun.
MEEK: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Send us some pictures.
MEEK: We'll do.
MACCALLUM: And in the meantime, we've been putting on the bottom, Turns for Troops and SoldierStrong.org. Please make it part of your Memorial Day to log on and to check this out, we hope you'll help. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
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