Gowdy: SCOTUS confirmation process has become politicized

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," July 9, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: It is a historic night. The 45th president set to announce his second pick for the Supreme Court, the person who could help shape the direction of the court for decades. And perhaps, no branch has more impact ultimately on the country. Decisions on immigration, our borders, guns, and perhaps, the issue of life itself could all come before the Trump Supreme Court.

In the past on these occasions, air travel and positioning of the finalists have tipped us off. Tonight, the list is down to four and here's what we know.

Thomas Hardiman who presides in the third District is now in D.C. tonight for a prescheduled meeting. Brett Kavanaugh and the D.C. Circuit reportedly seen just about an hour ago leaving the U.S. courthouse in Washington in a black sedan with a fair amount of security, according to reports a short time ago.

Amy Coney Barrett lives in South Bend, Indiana, Notre Dame's University and at this hour we do not have confirmation of her whereabouts. And the same goes for Raymond Kethledge, whose Court is located in Ann Arbor, Michigan, word is that the president wants to maintain the element of surprise.

And that a military aircraft may be utilized to keep the pick under wraps. And although we don't know yet who it is, we know that some say they don't actually care.


SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER , D-N.Y., SENATE MINORITY LEADER: It is near impossible to imagine that President Trump would select a nominee who is in hostile to our health care law. Who is in hostile to a woman's freedom.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Don't you want to see who the president nominates first before deciding flatly? There should be no confirmation vote between now and the midterm elections.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO, D-HAWAII, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: No, it doesn't matter who he is putting for.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS, D-CALIF., COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS: We all need to understand this to be one of the most serious fights that we have yet to have had with this president. And we cannot relent --


MACCALLUM: And Senator Mitch McConnell who was criticized for not giving President Obama one last pick, now says the show must go on.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, R-KY., SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Our Democratic colleagues still have a tired of crying wolf, whenever a Republican president nominates anyone, anyone to the Supreme Court. Scare tactics will not stop us from doing the right thing.


MACCALLUM: Aha! So we've got a big lineup for you tonight as we await one of the most consequential decisions any president can make. Senator Orrin Hatch will be with President Trump tonight. And he say, he knows who the pick is.

Judge Andrew Napolitano, here on the challenges the top contenders will face through this process and Pam Bondi just met with President Trump. So, he made up his mind, we know and that happened earlier today. But we begin with Chief White House Correspondent John Roberts, who is taking it all out on the North Lawn tonight, with the big developments. Good evening, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Martha. And we've been trying to read the tea leaves all day and which way this is going to go. We know from talking to people who have spoken with the president in the past 24 hours that Brett Kavanaugh and Thomas Hardiman were the frontrunners for the position with the idea also that the president could throw a Hail Mary, and pick Amy Coney Barrett. Or if you wanted a fairly easy confirmation, Raymond Kethledge, as well.

But I think, we've probably got it down to Brett Kavanaugh, Thomas Hardiman. There are reports that Amy Coney Barrett is at home in Indiana tonight, which would make it pretty difficult for her to be here at the White House. But people playing this very close to the vest. Only the president, a handful of people know what's really what. So, we will see.

But already -- you know, what this is boiling down to now is obviously, we have the announcement. But the president really is stealing for a huge battle in the Senate for confirmation here, and the schedule is very, very tight. It's only been 12 days since Justice Anthony Kennedy announced his retirement, and tonight we're getting the nominee.

And then, outside groups, the White House would like to get this done before the Supreme Court begins its October term at the beginning of October. So that leaves a very narrow window of only 83 days to get this through.

And the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer in a fiery speech on the floor of the Senate earlier today, decrying the process that brought us to where we are that this list of 25 judges from which the president was going to pick were written up by the Federalist Society and Leonard Leo in particular. Schumer, saying that this process is both unfair and biased toward conservative judges who might overturn Roe versus Wade. Listen to what Schumer said earlier today.


SCHUMER: The president has gone too to far out of the mainstream hard- right groups, the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society. And asked them not the Senate to advice and consent on a Supreme Court nomination.

ROBERTS: Not long after that, the Senate Majority Leader took to the floor and said, "Look, Democrats have been doing this for the past 40 years." Like, listen to what they said when Justice Anthony Kennedy was nominated. Here's McConnell.

MCCONNELL: In 1987, these far-left special interest groups impinge his character. They cooked up apocalyptic warnings about all the terrible things -- terrible things that would happen to Americans if he were confirmed to the court. Of course, the American people didn't buy it.


ROBERTS: The American people didn't buy and he also talked about David Souter and other justices who were confirmed eventually and actually took different positions. Then the Republican presidents who nominated and thought that they would.

So, where we are tonight, we think we got it down to Kavanaugh, we think we have a down to Hardiman, convenience, and coincidence that both of them just happened to be in Washington D.C. Kavanaugh, by virtue of the fact that he sits on the Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. And the fact that Judge Hardiman was here for the Judicial Conference of the United States is on the Judicial Committee.

So, neither one of them would have to be flown in. We don't even know if they're here at the White House, because they're pretty sneaky about all of this, Martha. They would likely bring in the nominee through the south portico which means that we've got no vantage point. We've been looking down the driveway but haven't seen anything of significance other than Newt Gingrich and his wife Calista, who, of course, is the ambassador to the Vatican walking in the West Wing a little while ago. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Here now with more, Senator Orrin Hatch. he sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee and will be with the president when the announcement is made this evening. Senator Hatch, thank you for being here tonight. Always good to see you sir. So, do you know who the pick is?


MACCALLUM: You think, so.

HATCH: Yes, I know who it is.

MACCALLUM: You know who it is. All right, so, you know, it's interesting. Because you wrote an editorial that suggested that the pick was a she or a her, you referred to in your editorial. So, do you believe it's Amy Coney Barrett?


HATCH: No, I was just being -- I was just being kind of the feminine class in our society. But, no, I pretty -- I know who it is, and I think it's an excellent choice.

MACCALLUM: There are reports coming out tonight that you have suggested that it is not Amy Coney Barrett, is that true?

HATCH: No, but -- you know, I could see where somebody might interpret it that way.

MACCALLUM: All right. So, in terms of the picks and who you think the president might be leaning toward. You know, what are some of the attributes that you think the president's looking for having, been part of this, this process?

HATCH: Well, I think the president really wants somebody who's going to uphold the Constitution and stand behind those laws and quit playing politics with the Supreme Court. And I think -- I think, when he gets through this evening, I think, most people will be very pleased with his choice.

MACCALLUM: There were also reports tonight, I have to ask you about all these because there's a lot of buzz out there. Of course, the New York Times reported a short time ago that Brett Kavanaugh was seen getting into a sort of train, of SUVs with a lot of security, does that suggest that he's the pick?

HATCH: Well, some people sure think that. And a lot of people would have drawn a lot of conclusions about the three or four of these candidates. So, we just have to wait tonight and see what -- who the president picks.


HATCH: Some -- I know -- I know, who he's going to pick, but just -- but just wait and see. And I think, it's going to be an exciting choice, I think that the American people will be very strongly behind whoever the president picks, and I know -- I know he takes it seriously.


MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this Senator. I'm sorry to interrupt. He does take it seriously, no doubt. Is the person that he picked was this person your first choice?

HATCH: My first choice are any of the four that have been mentioned. Because I would be for any of them. There are -- every one of them is just plain excellent.

MACCALLUM: All right. Now, talk to me about some of your colleagues and the fight that no doubt lies ahead. Because we know millions of dollars are being spent on advertising to go after this nominee whoever it is. What about Susan Collins? What about Lisa Murkowski? Do you believe knowing who the pick is that they will support this person?

HATCH: I do believe that. But I think it's outrageous that the Democrats are saying they don't care who it is, they're going to fight against it. I mean, my goodness, what are we coming to that we can't even give a decent people, an up-or-down vote. So I'm very disappointed to my colleagues on the other side.

MACCALLUM: Do you think that the person that the president selects is the best person to get through this process?

HATCH: Well, there are a number of best person. So, I'd say any of the four would be a best person. There is no question --


MACCALLUM: But I mean, in terms of ease with confirmation.

HATCH: Well, I think that -- I think, this -- I think any of those four will get through the process. And one or more of them may have a more difficult time, but I think that the Republican Party is going to be behind whoever it is. And I hope there'll be some honest Democrats who will go beyond politics and recognize the achievements of whoever the president picks.

MACCALLUM: All right. Well, a couple of them have already been approved by some of these members. So, we'll see if they would do it on a second round. Senator Orrin Hatch, thank you, sir. Always a pleasure to see you.

HATCH: Nice to be with you.

MACCALLUM: We tried. Judge Andrew Napolitano, Fox News senior judicial analyst. Orrin Hatch knows and he's keeping pretty tightly.

ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: I wish I could have pinched him, he wasn't answering.

MACCALLUM: I wish if he were sitting next to me. I feel like I could have gotten out of him. In a little while, we all know.


MACCALLUM: How do you think these tea leaves are looking right now?

NAPOLITANO: I think, the president probably took the advice of Senator McConnell that a couple of these are real lightning rods that would cause bloodbaths if you will. And the safer ones are Judge Kethledge and Judge Hardiman.

I also think that Judge Hardiman who was the runner-up -- a reported to be the runner-up when -- you know, Gorsuch was chosen, and I was part of that selection process. Would not have been added personally by the president to the list only to be left standing at the altar yet again. This is a very --

MACCALLUM: That's on the connection with President Trump's sister.


MACCALLUM: Maryanne Trump Barry, who served with him on the Third Circuit Court, and has been a big proponent. So, I guess, one of the questions is going to be if you chooses Hardiman, you know, how much influence did her input have?

NAPOLITANO: She's a very persuasive woman, I know her very well. We were -- I was a state judge when she was a federal judge and that's how we got to know each other in New Jersey. But put that as such, she's a very persuasive woman who probably brought Judge Hardiman to the president's attention. And the president, I think, bonded with him. Look, I don't want to jump the gun, because we --


MACCALLUM: We don't know.

NAPOLITANO: Unlike Senator Hatch, we don't know who the nominee is. But if it's Judge Barrett, she's a lightning rod on abortion. If it's judge Kavanaugh, he's got some conservatives that don't like him because of some prior rulings and the involvement with Ken Starr and Hillary Clinton events, Western all that, that the president doesn't want to see (INAUDIBLE).

MACCALLUM: But it maybe -- you know, if he's still at the top of the list, and we don't know. It may be that those concerns have been assuage by conversation that is --


NAPOLITANO: It may very -- it may very well be. Judge -- or Senator Rand Paul, said he would not support Judge Kavanaugh. So with John that Senator McCain not voting, we start with 49.

MACCALLUM: And Rand Paul did not vote in favor of Amy Barrett -- Amy Coney Barrett.

NAPOLITANO: Correct, I have not spoken to him about this.


NAPOLITANO: But he was very public about Judge Barrett. Judge Barrett made two very interesting statements. One is the president can be impeached for lying to the American public, he took that back. Another is, the president can do no wrong under our system, he took that back.

Senator Paul was offended by both of those statements, neither of which he believes is true.

MACCALLUM: All right. So, you know --

NAPOLITANO: That's the problem with a long judicial record like he has, there's something in there for everybody to like and there something there for everybody to dislike.


MACCALLUM: But we've all seen how it works out. And they sit at the hearing they say, "Well, you know, I really can't talk about that. I think it'll be wrong for me to discuss things that might come before the court."


MACCALLUM: I mean, it's all kinds of ways to get on this.

NAPOLITANO: That is the so-called Ginsberg law.


NAPOLITANO: Fashioned after a very eloquent statement made by Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg when she was being confirmed as justice. Saying. "I will not discuss something likely to come before me." The president has campaigned on wanting to get rid of Roe versus Wade, and wanting to dial back administrative agencies, and wanted to give more authority to the states. He is likely to pick a human being to go on the court who agrees generally not precisely, but generally with those views because elections have consequences.

MACCALLUM: Judge, thank you.

NAPOLITANO: You're welcome.

MACCALLUM: We watch. We wait and we watch. So, my next guest --

NAPOLITANO: Two hours to go.

MACCALLUM: Exactly. Two hours to go. My next guest has some first-hand insight into the president's pick, as well. Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi met with the president and she will be there tonight when the official announcement is made.

Pam Bondi, Attorney General of Florida. Too good to see you this evening, thanks for being here.


MACCALLUM: We couldn't get it out of Orrin Hatch. So, I'm sure we can get it out of you. Who's the pick, Pam?

BONDI: No. The president has been very transparent, and he has nominated four -- given four names of four great people. The president's vision for our Supreme Court is following the rule of law and interpreting the Constitution as written.

And I think, you're going to see that tonight by his pick. I've talked to him about this. We did not meet on this topic today but I'm very excited to be there tonight. And again, the president has a great vision for our country and following the rule of law, and that's what's so important.

MACCALLUM: Have you in the past when you may have discussed things along these lines generally, ever encouraged him to choose a woman for the Supreme Court when he gets the opportunity?

BONDI: I have a favorite pick, but I'm not going to discuss who that is. I know one of the -- one of the judges. But I'm not going to talk about this. Again, the president has picked -- chosen four people.

And you know what, I hope that our Senators can come around, on the Democratic side. I know that my Florida Senator Bill Nelson said he was going to vote blanketly against all four when one of them he had previously voted for. So, these people need to do the right thing and support the president's nominee.

MACCALLUM: I mean, that's going to be tough for many of these Democrats because when they went through the first approval process, many of them have voted for these people.

BONDI: Right.

MACCALLUM: Barrett, they voted for, they voted for Hardman before.

BONDI: Hardiman.

MACCALLUM: So how is it going to be -- you know -- how is that going to having to make that argument that they've changed their mind about this person when they've already approved them?

BONDI: Well, it's going to hurt him -- it's going to hurt him. And they're politicizing it. Once again, they're saying -- you know, they have four names, they don't even know who the choice is yet, and they're saying, "We are blanketly voting against these individuals." And that's, that's a shame. It's a shame that our country's come to that, but we have a great president who follows the rule of law. He cares so deeply about this issue. He knows this is one of the most important things that he will do as president, and I think the American people should be very proud tonight.

MACCALLUM: Well, he often has you in the room. I know that he thinks highly of you, and you're going to be in the room tonight for that moment in history, and we will be watching. Pam Bondi, thank you so much. Good to see you tonight.

BONDI: You too, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, his name was once floated as a possible Supreme Court nominee. Congressman Trey Gowdy, a former assistant U.S. attorney is up next. Plus --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just sold a pic and I was like, like it's almost at a point where you kind of expect that some -- it's not going to be what you want.

MACCALLUM: So, this was done more than a day ago. Students outraged about President Trump's pick for the Supreme Court. Except there's one problem, there wasn't one, yet. And in fact, they were quite adamant about it. That story coming up.

Plus, British Prime Minister Theresa May, getting ready for President Trump's visit while fighting for her political life. Tough week ahead for her. Can she hold on to power?

Here next, Nigel Farage, former leader of the U.K. Independence Party. He says he may have to get back in now.

THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: What we are proposing is challenging for the E.U.



MACCALLUM: Have you in the past when you may have discussed things along these lines generally ever encouraged him to choose a woman for the Supreme Court when he gets the opportunity?

BONDI: I have a favorite pick but I'm not going to discuss who that is. I know one of the -- one of the judges but I'm not going to talk about this. Again, the President has chosen four people and you know what I hope that our Senators can come around on the Democratic side. I know that -- my Florida Senator Bill Nelson said he was going to vote blanketly against all four when one of them he had previously voted for. So these people need to do the right thing and support the President's nominee.

MACCALLUM: I mean, that's going to be tough for many of these Democrats because when they went through the first approval process many of them have voted for these people. Barrett they voted for, they voted for Hardman before. So how is it going to be -- you know, how is that going to -- how are they going to make that argument that they've changed their mind about this person when they've already approved them?

BONDI: Well, it's going to hurt him. It's going to hurt them. And they're politicizing it once again. They're saying you know, they have four names, they don't even know who the choice is yet and they're saying we are blanketly voting against these individuals and that's that's a shame. It's a shame that our country's come to that but we have a great president who follows the rule of law. He cares so deeply about this issue. He knows this is one of the most important things that he will do as president and I think the American people should be very proud tonight.

MACCALLUM: Well, he often has you in the room. I know that he thinks highly of you and you're going to be in the room tonight for that moment in history and we will be watching. Pam Bondi, thank you so much. Good to see you tonight.

BONDI: You too, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So his name was once floated as a possible Supreme Court nominee. Congressman Trey Gowdy, a former Assistant U.S. Attorney is up next. Plus --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just told a pick and I was like it's almost at a point where you kind of expect that some -- it's not going to be what you want.


MACCALLUM: So this was done more than a day ago. Students outraged about President Trump's pick for the Supreme Court except there's one problem. There wasn't one yet and in fact, they were quite adamant about it. That story coming up. Plus British Prime Minister Theresa May getting ready for President Trump's visit while fighting for her political life. Tough week ahead for her. Can she hold on to power? Here next Nigel Farage former Leader of the U.K. Independence Party. He says he may have to get back in now.


MAY: What we are proposing is challenging for the E.U.



MACCALLUM: So the clock ticks down to the President's big announcement on the next Supreme Court justice nominee. My next guest was once mentioned as a possible candidate for the nation's highest court and here's what he said when asked about it.


REP. TREY GOWDY, R-S.C.: What an awesome job but I think unfortunately the way politics is now, once you have been associated with the political process it's really hard to wash that off. It would take a long time. And I mean I love the law. I love it much more than I ever loved politics. I love it but I'm also not naive. If something changes in ten years and a president called me I would say let me come help you come up with a list of people that would be really good but don't put me on the list.


MACCALLUM: Here now House Oversight Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy. Good to see you this evening, sir. Thank you for being here. You still feel that way and how -- what do you think about this process when you look at how political it has become?

GOWDY: Sad. I remember going home on lunch breaks to watch the confirmation process for other Supreme Court Justices. I mean that's how much of a nerd I am when it comes to these things. It's like the Super Bowl for me. I just -- I love the interaction between the Senators and these really, really intelligent folks, but it's become so politicized. I mean, how many -- how many Democrats voted for Neil Gorsuch, three? Ruth Bader Ginsburg won 95 two single digits. So the Democrats just have a different rule when it comes to Republican nominees and you know Gorsuch should have won overwhelmingly but it was what, ten vote margin?

MACCALLUM: 54 to 45.

GOWDY: Yes, it's --

MACCALLUM: You can almost see that number and Kennedy was 97 to zero so you can see that number just getting tighter and tighter as you as you go through this process. And it's very easy to imagine that this person could win or lose by one vote.

GOWDY: Particularly if Rand Paul is already an out which just I mean, I like Rand but that just before almost me why you would play into the Democrat playbook by already announcing who you're going to vote against.

MACCALLUM: Well, he voted against her in the last round. You know, just to clarify, he voted against her when she was up for the Circuit Court.

GOWDY: Hopefully something has changed but what it really does when it's this tight, when it's 51-49 or 50-49, if somebody's in poor health, it makes every one of those 100 Senators the decision-maker and that is just - - I mean, can you imagine a more miserable existence than having those 100 bosses get to dictate what you do. So I feel sorry for the President although this is the most important thing. We have gotten it wrong five different times that I can think of Republican presidents nominating five folks whether it is Blackmun, whether it's Brennan, whether it is Warren, whether it is Souter, whether it's John Paul Stevens, those are all Republican nominees that shocked us with their liberalism. You can't think of a single Democrat nominee that shocked you with his or her conservatism so President Trump's first obligation is to not get it wrong like several of his predecessors did. I mean the buzz is that it's not Amy Coney Barrett. We could all be surprised if she could walk into the room tonight. We just don't know. But this exchange with Dianne Feinstein, Senator Feinstein really disturbs a lot of people because it goes to the heart of whether or not you're allowed to be a religious person in the United States of America and sit on the Supreme Court. Watch this.


SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN, D-CALIF.: When you read your speeches, the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you and that's of concern.


MACCALLUM: What do you think about that?

GOWDY: I think it is despicable and I think if a Republican had said that, that person would have been vilified. First of all, I wouldn't want a religious faith structure that didn't influence every part of your life. On the other hand, the best judges have the humility and the restraint to follow the law. You are talking to someone whose religious views are very different on the death penalty than the fact that I had to seek it seven times as the District Attorney. So the ability to separate what you believe from a theological standpoint from actually doing your job I think it's terrible that Dianne Feinstein asked that question and she would not have asked it of a non-Christian I can guarantee you that.

MACCALLUM: It's hard to imagine that she would have challenged someone on their Jewish faith or their Muslim faith in the same way as saying that you know, they were clearly steeped in the dogma of either one of those religions. It was quite a moment. Thank you so much. Trey Gowdy, always good to see you, sir.

GOWDY: Yes, ma'am.

MACCALLUM: Thank thanks for being here tonight.

GOWDY: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: You bet. So a political earthquake across the pond ahead of the president's trip and my next guest says because of what's going on in the cabinet he may be back in Nigel Farage, former U.K. Independence Party leader joins me next.


MACCALLUM: Political earthquake is rumbling across the pond tonight that could have huge implications. British Prime Minister Theresa May's government is in crisis with key members of her cabinet resigning, walking out including her influential foreign secretary Boris Johnson in rebuke of her strategy to carry out Brexit.

It all comes practically on the eve of President Trump's visit there in a couple of days.

Trace Gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom with the very latest. Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Boris Johnson is a very charismatic, very well-known politician who was the leader of the Brexit campaign to take Britain out of the European Union, but he was clearly at odds with Prime Minister Theresa May.

In fact, a few days ago, Johnson said that May's plan to maintain close trade and regulatory ties with the E.U. was pardon the quote, polishing a turd.

The yesterday, it appeared Johnson was willing to go along with the prime minister's plan until late last night when Brexit secretary David Davis turned in his resignation, accusing Theresa May of giving too much away too easily.

In his resignation letter today, Boris Johnson went even further saying the Brexit dream is dying. Quoting here. "What is even more disturbing is that this is our opening bid. It is as though we are sending our vanguard into battle with the white flags fluttering above them. "

Johnson and other Brexit supporters are wanting to make a clean break from the E.U. to strike new trade deals around the world, but the prime minister later defended her Brexit strategy. Watch.


THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Over that time, I've listened to every possible idea and every possible version of Brexit. Mr. Speaker, this is the right Brexit. Leaving the European Union on the 29th of March, 2019.


GALLAGHER: Prime Minister May try to calm tensions by quickly naming health Secretary Jeremy Hunt to replace Boris Johnson as foreign secretary but opposition labor leader Jeremy Corbyn said the government was incapable of delivering Brexit.


JEREMY CORBYN, LABOUR PARTY LEADER: We have a crisis in government. Two secretaries of state have resigned and still we are no clearer on what future relationship with our nearest neighbors and biggest partners will look like.


GALLAGHER: Experts say the loss of two senior foreign ministers and the anger among the Brexit supporting lawmakers leaves the prime minister in a tenuous position. They believe for her to avoid a no-confidence vote she may have to abandon her current Brexit plan and take a much harder stance.

Despite the turmoil, the White House says President Trump is looking forward to his meeting with the British prime minister. Mr. Trump arrives in Britain on Thursday. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Wow. They are going to have a lot to talk about. Trace, thank you very much. Joining me now, Nigel Farage, former leader of the U.K. Independence Party, and a former member of the European parliament and now a Fox News contributor. Nigel, good to have you with us tonight.


MACCALLUM: My goodness, where is all of this headed?

FARAGE: Well, it's very simple. The British people had a referendum to decide on our future. We voted to leave the European Union, to leave its court, to leave its lawmaking processes, to take back control of our borders and our money. Simple as.

And yet, this Prime Minister, Theresa May, who incidentally was a remained voter in a referendum, presented a plan at Chequers, the country of the British prime minister on Friday that basically said we would still stay a part of many bits of the European Union, including the customs union, the lawmaking process, all of which would mean we were taking rules from elsewhere without having a say.

It would prevent us, probably, from having a trade deal with America and other countries, and it was nothing less, Martha, than a total betrayal of what people have voted for in that referendum and a general election.



FARAGE: Now Boris Johnson, Boris Johnson kept quiet for 48 hours. I think he has now sensed where the wind is blowing and by resigning he's done the right thing.

MACCALLUM: All right. So where are the winds going? I mean, did Theresa May get pushed out or does she come back closer to you and Boris Johnson? Do you, as you said on radio, get back in? Do leave the U.K. party once again and try to become prime minister yourself?

FARAGE: Well, you know something, I was a businessman. I got involved in politics because of this European question because I wanted us to be an independent, free, self-governing democratic nation. I fought for 25 years to get that referendum and the result we got. And if they are going to throw it out of the window, then I will be back fighting them with even more vigor than I had last time.

I personally believe that the prime minister will be gone within the next fortnight and then we have a chance to get a prime minister, a leader of the conservative party that holds faith with 17.4 million voters who voted leave and what was the greatest democratic exercise in the history of my own.

MACCALLUM: So you think there is that the political will to push her out to have a vote of no confidence in the fortnight? I mean, what happens? So, I mean, you got President Trump coming in on Wednesday evening. He will be there Thursday to meet with Theresa May, to meet with the queen.


MACCALLUM: What kind of U.K. is he going to be facing in a few days?

FARAGE: Well, President Trump I think will be very frustrated. He believes in Brexit. I know that, I've discussed it with him. He believes in the nation-state, not these new globalist super national outfits and the president is going to be furious, isn't he, that Theresa May wants to tie us into something that would stop us having a proper trade deal between the U.S. and the U.K.

My guess is that President Trump will say some quite tough things when he comes to the U.K. And he would be right to do so.

MACCALLUM: So if she is pushed out in a fortnight as you say, who's going to replace or?

FARAGE: Well, Boris, of course, Johnson will always favor himself as being the man that gets there. There's an old saying in conservative politics that the favorite rarely wins.

There is an outside horse, somebody called Jacob Rees-Mogg, who, to American viewers, will appear like a sort of 18th century English country gentlemen.

He's very old-fashioned. He's very charming, but he's very genuine. And I would say between Boris and Jacob Rees-Mogg, one of those two will take the crown.

MACCALLUM: All right. I will ask you a quick question and I'm going to see when we get to London shortly.


MACCALLUM: This blimp that Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London has approved to fly over your city while the president is there in protest, how do you feel about that?

FARAGE: It's an insult. You know, whatever Sadiq Khan thinks about President Trump, he should not put that personal enmity about the fact that the President Trump, like him or not, is the leader of the biggest and most important country in the world.

And I cannot imagine any other city in the world that would fly a blimp, you know, an insulting blimp of the president above their parliament on the day of his visit. Sadiq Khan is a total disgrace.

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you about the NATO meetings as well, because there is concern that President Trump is basically sending the message that either you're in for the amount that you said you would be in for to all of these countries, you know, and I think that, you know, most people understand that argument, or perhaps we pull out troops, there is a concern about that.

Perhaps the United States doesn't keep it traditional role as part of NATO and that dynamic changes. With that send Germany into a position where they feel that they are the leadership militarily in central -- in Europe? What you think about that?

FARAGE: This is -- this is the great untold story. NATO has been there since the late 1940s. It has been a great successful military alliance, and of course the Americans have been very much the senior partner in all of this with us playing a role as number two.

We've now got a position where out of 29 nations, only six of them are paying the basic membership fee of 2 percent. The rest, frankly, taking America for a ride, and the president is right to call them on this, but there's another dynamic at work, which is this.

The European Union now has protections for its own army, its own air force, its own navy, and the president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker is setting the Germans and the French and everybody else they only need to pay 1 percent into defense, not the 2 percent that NATO demands.

So, you know, what happens at NATO is even more important than what happens in London.


FARAGE: And I think Trump is right and European citizens need to realize that America could walk away from guaranteeing their protection. It's time Europeans grew up and got real.

MACCALLUM: Well, we'll see if they are interested in a discount on national security in Europe. So, Nigel, thank you. We look forward to seeing you.

FARAGE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So as I mentioned, this Wednesday The Story will be live in London for President Trump's visit through Friday on some of the biggest names in Britain will join us live on the set as we break down the high- stakes NATO summit. The meeting, with Theresa May and the queen, and previewed the president's meeting with Vladimir Putin. There's a lot in the plate. Big week coming up.

And as we get closer to President Trump's historic announcement this evening on the Supreme Court nominee, will he stick to his gut or will he try to please his base? What is his pick going to look like? Jonah Goldberg up next.


MACCALLUM: So we are picking up some movements which may have some relevance and might point in the direction of where President Trump's decision will be tonight on the Supreme Court and here is one possible indication.

A ruling just came down from the D.C. circuit court where Brett Kavanaugh sets on a case that has been on the docket there for 15 years, it's a FOIA case, suggesting that they may be clearing the slate.

He wrote the majority opinion in this case. They do not usually come forward with any opinions on a Monday night but when there is a nominee he would have to recuse himself from that case and this has been in the work for 15 years, so now there is a decision in that case that has just been pushed through sort of at the last minute on this Monday evening.

We also -- there are some indications that Amy Coney Barrett is indeed at home in Indiana. We are working on confirmation of that and if that is the case, that would also be pointing in the direction of her not being the pick, but we will see.

Here now, Jonah Goldberg. Senior editor of National Review, Fox News contributor and author of the new book cheering cheerily named "Suicide of the West." Good to see you tonight, Jonah. Welcome.


MACCALLUM: So what do you make of these inklings and tidbits that we are picking up here?

GOLDBERG: Yes. I mean, the Washington rumor mill today has been all over the place, but it seems like it was gelling towards Brett Kavanaugh. We heard that Orrin Hatch -- Senator Orrin Hatch had said that Coney Barrett was not going to get it. There's been some talk in Washington for a while now that may be Trump was saving that in case Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires from the bench so we can replace the woman with a woman.

What I'm looking forward to is all of the people -- if she doesn't get it, looking forward to all the liberals suddenly insisting that she really was the one that should have been on the court because she is great. Not like this Kavanaugh guy or this Kethledge guy. Because whoever gets appoint -- whoever gets named is going to be the new sort of demon head for liberals for the next few weeks.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, you are so right. I think that there are, you know, that may be the case. And perhaps, because Amy Coney Barrett is relatively new. She's been on the court I think seven or eight months at this point, that the president perhaps might believe that he's going to get another pick and that perhaps he would like to return to that idea later down the road.

Thomas Hardiman has also said to be one of the top contenders. What do you think of Brett Kavanaugh? Is he someone that you would be happy with, and why?

GOLDBERG: Sure. You know, basically anybody who was on that list is someone I could certainly live with and some people I could be very excited by. You know, on things like this I tend to outsource a lot of my judgment to these people.

I have a lot of friends who are basically fantasy Supreme Court players and they've studied all these briefs and all that and Brett Kavanaugh is very popular among a lot of people I trust like Ed Whelan, who writes for National Review. A lot of my colleagues at National Review like him. He's a known quantity. He's a serious guy.


MACCALLUM: But let me ask you this, Jonah, because you have had, you know, your ups and downs with how you feel about President Trump and his record and what he's done.


MACCALLUM: But you know, if he puts a second Supreme Court justice on that you feel good about, does that mean for never-Trump people or people who were against Trump that maybe you were wrong or that maybe he's turning out to be different than was expected?

GOLDBERG: Sure. Look, I mean, there is no organizing committee of never- Trumpers. I haven't called myself a never-Trumper since he was elected. And I think the list is great. I thought it was brilliant for him to do.

It's worth pointing out that one of the reasons why he had to come up with a list in the first place is because there were millions of conservatives who are very skeptical that he would stay true and appoint conservative justices, so he outsource this to the Federal Society. I'm delighted that he did. But there are lots of things that Donald Trump -- there are lots of things Trump has done, that doesn't mean I have to support everything that he does and says.

MACCALLUM: We got it. It's interesting to see. Because a lot of people were afraid he was going to be moderate or liberal as a Republican president and as you say, he has stuck to the list that was given to him as he meets all these people.

Jonah, thank you very much, Jonah. Good to see you as always

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for coming on.


MACCALLUM: So a little over an hour from now President Trump will reveal that pick and we are starting to get a little bit clearer focus, perhaps, on who it may be. But some students did not have to wait until the president made his pick.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that he would put someone up there that is so racist and is not practicing the quality that we need to see, it's again, it's insulting. He's not going to last. I mean, I--





MACCALLUM: She's really not a fan of the pick but the problem was there was no pick when she wasn't a fan. Campus Reform Cabot Phillips shot that video, we talk to all those young people and he joins me next.


MACCALLUM: All right. About an hour away now, President Trump will announce his nominee to be the next Supreme Court justice, but some college students are already on the in fact, over the weekend, they were outraged about the person that the president picks. They couldn't believe it. The problem was, there wasn't anyone picked yet.


PHILLIPS: What's your reaction to the justice that he nominated today?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm honestly not surprised by his choice, but that worries for us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw the pick and I was like -- it's almost a point where you kind of expect it's not going to be what you want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's quite extreme in his views and I don't know if it would make the Supreme Court very even.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see it all over the news that he's like a racist and (muted).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This new to me he's very racist. I think it's starting a new wave of something very negative and I'm really scared about what will happen in the future (Inaudible).

PHILLIPS: So what reaction have you seen on social media today after the news?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Outrage, as it should be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a recurring thing, he just doing this for different position and just whatever he wants and using his power.

PHILLIPS: You said you feel like his pick is an abuse of power?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His entire cabinet and everyone he has chosen has been the white supremacist legion of doom and it's dangerous for everyone who looks like me.

PHILLIPS: You feel like the Supreme Court nominee today kind of falls in that same line?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They should all wear white hoods and bring the crosses at the capital because that's exactly -- that's exactly the move I think that they are going for.


MACCALLUM: That's so bad. Here now the man who did those interviews, Cabot Phillips. Media director of Campus Reform.org. And this is NYU.

PHILLIPS: This is.

MACCALLUM: These are students at NYU?

PHILLIPS: Students, one member was actually a member of the faculty there, the woman who said she saw the outrage on social media.

MACCALLUM: Unbelievable. And your opening line was he picked his nominee, what do you think?

PHILLIPS: What do you think, what kind of reaction have you seen and this is really what happens when you convince an entire segment of our society, in this case college students that you have to hate President Trump. It's all they are inundated within class professors. It's what they see on social media so this knee-jerk reaction is what happens.

And beyond that, there's also a pure pressure that exist on college campuses were many students, they look at what happens to conservative students on campus. They see the violence against them, the threats--


PHILLIPS: -- how they are ostracized and they say I'm just going to go along with the path of this resistance which is to hate Trump.

MACCALLUM: I get it. But if you hate Trump this tomorrow after the pick, you know, then you would say what you are saying, obviously, that there was group think because they don't even know this person yet, but what kills me is that they are lying. They are all lying. There is no pick.

And so, a, they are not admitting that they don't know who the pick is, and b, they are adamant and arrogant about their stance on it and they're completely ignorant. They have no idea that there is no pick.

PHILLIPS: And it's nothing new, this blind hatred, we covered through this, I've been through Campus Reform last month -- I was on -- or just last year I was on campus before the state of the union address. Three nights beforehand I said what you think of the speech. And they said it's the most racist speech I've heard. And I told them the state of the unit hasn't actually happened yet.


PHILLIPS: And everyone said well, I knew that, I thought you were talking but a different speech. It's a pressure where people want to seem intelligent.

MACCALLUM: Did anybody say he hasn't picked anyone yet?

PHILLIPS: One student came out who said, I don't know too much about the justice so I'm going to hold any judgment.


PHILLIPS: Probably the smartest answer of NYU.

MACCALLUM: NYU, great school. Unbelievable. All right. Thank you very much, Cabot.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you. Quick break and we will be right back with more of "The Story" after this.


MACCALLUM: Great studio lighting on the Supreme Court tonight courtesy of the sun. Beautiful night. And the drama as we wait for the big decision. Stay tuned. President Trump's decision on the Supreme Court nominee is up next.

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