Global attacks on Christians on the rise

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 1, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Bob Beckel, along with Andrea Tantaros, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Jedediah Bila.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."


BECKEL: Today, over 2 billion Christians around the world are marking Good Friday. In Rome, Pope Francis just presided over a torch-lit procession to commemorate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Here's a depiction of that moment from the iconic movie, "The Passion of the Christ."


BECKEL: A day that should be dedicated to honoring Christ's ultimate sacrifice has been marred as Christians from Nigeria to Egypt are under attack from Islamic radicals.

In Easter message, British Prime Minister David Cameron makes a call to action.


DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: So, as we celebrate Easter, let us also think of those who are unable to do so -- the Christians around the world who are ostracized, abused, even murdered simply for the faith they follow.

Religious freedom is an absolute fundamental human right. Britain is committed to protecting and promoting that right by standing up for Christians and other minorities at home and abroad.


BECKEL: Well, good for Cameron.

You know, Eric, it's amazing to me, this is the first leader of a country that I can remember that has spoken about this. I mean, the silence from Obama and the White House is amazing. But I give Cameron a lot of credit for doing it.

But it just seems nobody else will talk about it.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: It's -- right. Because it's politically incorrect to talk about it here, President Obama doesn't want to do that. Look, Muslims -- from Muslims in Egypt to atheists right here, Christians were under full frontal assault. It's a difficult topic to take the other side of. Here, these people are dying and thank God David Cameron has done it.

President Obama to do it though, I'm not sure he's got -- what's in it politically for him to do it though?

BECKEL: Well, I mean, I think, politically, frankly, it would be a good time to do it because he's been under attack for being too soft on Muslims.

BOLLING: But wouldn't he look like he flip -- right, wouldn't he flip-flopped on yet another issue?

BECKEL: Yes, well, that's one way to get yourself out of the problem, right? I mean, I think it would be a good idea for him to do it. But anyway, the faith, what's happening in the persecution, it used to be the Middle East had 28 percent population was Christian, 20 years ago. Now, it's 10 percent and it's falling lower every day as Christians flee or get killed.

I mean, isn't it time for somebody to stand up and say something about it besides this Cameron?

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Absolutely. He's also seeing a lot of rioting in London. The tension between the Catholics and Christians in England and the Muslims has really started to boil over. And so, I do think that his timing of this statement is perfect. He knows he has to address it, and I'm glad that he did.

It does seem though -- you're right, Bob, like the last acceptable form of discrimination in the world now is really Christians. They are persecuting them in Egypt. We talk about this on this show, and I really think that it's up to the United States to speak out and lead, and I don't know why the president doesn't just not stand up for Christians, but he goes out of his way to specifically say to the people that are committing these atrocious attacks that we are not at war with radical Islam. That we have a shared history of tolerance, when it has been anything but and to this day, Christians are being murdered. I don't understand why he doesn't use his bully pulpit to speak up more for something that's pretty indefensible.

BECKEL: Jedediah, Andrea makes a good point. A lot of these European countries have an influx of Muslims, particularly in France and in England. And maybe it is that they're just afraid of civil disruptions if they decided to take on. But Cameron clearly had enough guts to do it.

JEDEDIAH BILA, CO-HOST: He had enough guts. And I agree with Andrea, I think this absolutely requires American leadership. I mean, if you look at these stories, you talk about these Nigerian school girls being abducted, bomb attacks in bus stations in Nigeria, the rate of abduction among Christians -- Christian girls is going up.

I see politicians in this country really willing to talk about a war on women when we talk about domestic politics and all of this nonsense. There is a war on Christian women in these countries. And I think that should be something that we're gutsy enough to call like we see it.

And, look, President Obama is the leader of the free world. He needs to take a leadership position on this. And good for Cameron, but the United States should join with him in that cause.

BECKEL: Yes, I'll tell you -- Dana, I find it also -- since we don't have a recognized leader of the Christians like Billy Graham anymore in the United States, when you think about this -- nobody really stands out in that position, but I haven't heard many church leaders speak out about this?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: That's right. I think -- I'm not -- I'm not going to criticize President Obama as much on this in particular thing. I do wish that he would speak up a little bit more, but I also have to remember that where this is happening is around the world where most of America says we don't have a role in the world. They don't want us to get involved anywhere. So, why should President Obama get involved in any of these things?

I have a different position on that from a foreign policy standpoint and I think that extends to religion as well.

However, when it comes to radical Islam, I do think we are at war with radical Islam. And President Obama and other leaders before him have tried to make a distinction between the radicals and the extremists versus a broader religious base. The war we are in is one about ideology. It's not about faith, and it's about radical Islam and extremists. Basically murder innocent people to further a political, not necessarily and religious goal, though the brainwashing is a serious problem and I think that someplace where we could help.

The last thing I would say is -- I don't think that President Obama could actually make a change on this and actually have an impact. I think there is actually only one person right now on the planet who could do that and it's Pope Francis.


PERINO: And I think that if he -- I wonder today, could he call a world leader summit and bring some of the major imams together, some of the leaders of the Muslim countries, along with other Christians or Buddhists or maybe the Dalai Llama. Could you actually pull something like that together and to try to bring the world together?

BOLLING: As uniting as he is, you know why he probably couldn't get that done, because you have to invite the rabbis, you have to invite the Israelis, the Jewish people, the Jewish faith. And the Islamists, they won't meet. They won't recognize them, they don't think they should be on the face of the earth. They don't think they should be around.

So, can I just throw one quick thought in there? We're at war at Islam. This is one of their battle fields. They are doing this because they know this hurts us quite a bit. It hurts West, it hurts Christians, and those are really one of their -- two of their biggest targets.

BECKEL: One of the things about this whole issue, I think this small show of ours here has done more on this issue than any other journalistic outlet. And I don't understand why they're not willing to do it. Now, when you talk about -- when Obama tries to make a distinction between Islamic radical and all the rest of the Muslim faith -- the problem I've got with that is the rest of the Muslim faith doesn't say anything.

You know, they just -- I haven't yet to hear a leader of a Muslim country or for that matter, a high-ranking cleric or imam, stand up and say this is wrong.

TANTAROS: Well, and to your point, Bob, there's a Pew study a couple of years ago that was done that asked Muslims living in the United States if they agreed that terrorist attacks were justified, and I would say about a quarter of them said, yes.

BECKEL: Really?

TANTAROS: Yes, it was about 23, 28, I'll tweet it out later, to check on that stat. That was so shocking is that they actually agreed that there are some instances where people should or could be killed which goes to your point. Why don't they speak up? People wonder, why aren't more people adamant that these attacks need to stop?

I wish it were as easy as a summit, but, you know, when you take time to study the history of Islam, which I've done to make sure I get my facts right, they have been operating this way for hundreds of years. A summit won't change it. A press release won't change it. The only thing that will change it is if we eradicate the radicals by taking basically a two- by-four over their head which is the only thing they understand.

BECKEL: You know, this is -- the difference between Christianity and the Muslim -- I'm not a theologist, but Muslims want to change the war that we're in now. That we want to take on all the -- what they see as the devil in the United States and the rest, whereas in Christianity, we look for another spirit and follow Jesus Christ.

PERINO: I think they could look at the history, the totality of the history of Christianity and say that that wasn't all the case as well.

And also on the point about Cameron and the U.K. saying something, it was on this show within the last year that actually it was Prince Charles who gave a statement and it was really interesting, where did that come from, why is prince Charles doing -- so maybe there is something in the U.K., and we should maybe follow their lead. If they want to take the lead on it, perhaps we should get behind and try to drive behind them.

BILA: I'm wondering if the president did come out, if Barack Obama did come out with a stronger statement, though, if that would affect the media chose to cover the story. I'm wondering if a lot of the media types who are very afraid of stories like this and very afraid to address it due to backlash, would be inspired to be a little bit more truthful in terms of the stats that Andrea is talking about. And otherwise, if the president shows some leadership on the issue, being that they tend to take his opinion on matters and his -- you know, if he has authority on a certain position, or if he's willing to go out and express it, very seriously in terms of what they choose and not to cover.

TANTAROS: There's also the Islamist view, anyone who was an Islamist and turned as someone who is worse than the infidel, right? The apposite is worse than someone who turned. So, I was having a conversation with someone who said, you know, President Obama, he went to a madrasah, and now, he's a Christian. I don't want to get in to that debate, but there is -- I'm not sure that President Obama coming out and bashing radical Islamists, which he has not appetite to do. We know this.

BECKEL: Right.

TANTAROS: In his Oval Office addresses, when he's talking about Syria, he could have referenced to Christians being persecuted, he did. But this is how Islam operates. They want to kill the people who turned on Islam more than they want to kill people who were never Islamist to begin with, and it will never stop until we're all ruled by Muslims.

BECKEL: Right. Maybe some people are too afraid.

Let's go back to Pope Francis for a second. Probably the most serious Christian leader of the entire -- I mean, I'm not Catholic, but he's got a lot of exposure.

And yet, Eric, I asked him to look into what he said about the persecution about Christians. Forget his summit. He made a couple of vague references. He didn't come out directly and take it on. I'm wondering why that is.

BOLLING: I have no idea. Right now, he's trying to be and he's doing a great job of being the inclusive pope. He's bringing -- he's casting a wide net and he's bringing a lot of people into the church.

He's got a lot on his plate -- the same-sex marriage stuff, there are a lot of things he's taking into account, that people are pushing to allow priests to get married. There are a lot of things that he's looking into.

I agree with you, this is an important issue.

Can I point something out? The reason why the media doesn't cover this stuff, we do, but in general, the media, there are two things that show together. There's two things that really don't rate very well -- religion and religion outside of this country. Once you start that, the audience eyes kind of glaze over. And you don't rate.

So, the media doesn't go after that stuff. We do, to our producer's credit. We're doing this type of discussion in an A-block. Most shows wouldn't do that for that very reason.

BECKEL: And, listen, audience, you proved them wrong about this, all right? Let's get huge numbers on that tonight. So, there will be -- we could say, look, it was because we took on the persecution of the Christians.

Next on "The Five," what was President Obama's toughest interview when he ran for re-election? The White House answer is probably an embarrassment to a lot of journalist today. We'll tell you who when we come back.

Plus, Ed Henry is in town and in the house. He'll be here. We're going to talk to him about the president's relationship with the press and more, coming up.


PERINO: During his re-election complain, President Obama did interviews with Matt Lauer, Diane Sawyer, Steve Kroft and others. And which sit-down do they think was the toughest?

Well, here's White House Press Secretary Jay Carney on that.


JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think if you look at 2012 the series of interviews the sitting president of the United States gave, the probably the toughest interview he had was with Jon Stewart, probably the most substantive, challenging interview Barack Obama had in the election year was with the anchor of "The Daily Show."


PERINO: By the way, in 2011, Jon Stewart told Chris Wallace that it's an embarrassment that he's given so much credibility.


JON STEWART, COMEDIAN: Here's a difference between you and I -- I'm a comedian first. My comedy is informed by an ideological background. There's no question about that. The embarrassment is I'm given credibility in this world because of the disappointment that the public has in what the news media does.


PERINO: Joining us now in studio is a man who always asked tough questions, our good friend and chief White House correspondent, Ed Henry.

Ed, do you think that Jay Carney was saying that at that in event just to kind of tweak all of you in the briefing room?

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's a little bit of that. But I think he genuinely believes it. When you look at the whole sound bite, he said it three or four times and went in-depth. And I think they believe inside the White House that, you know, they were trying to reach young voters and that they -- you know, Jon Stewart has those young viewers, and we ask him a lot of substance -- pardon me, a lot of process, horse race questions when we do interviews and he gets better questions.

I went through the Jon Stewart transcript, one of them was, how many times a week does Biden show up a wet swim suit in a meeting?


HENRY: And Stewart said: I just want a ballpark figure. Obama: I had to put out a presidential directive on that. Stewart: you got to put towels down. Obama: I've got to say though, he looks pretty good.

PERINO: Tough questions, those are tough questions?

Why did they think though that that was so tough them?

HENRY: Not that tough.

Well, and in fairness to Jon Stewart, I should say, he asked about NSA surveillance, he asked about the economy, he asked about housing.

And, by the way, this show might be interested, he asked about Benghazi, several questions, and that was the sound bite from the Jon Stewart interview that produced the sound bite from the president saying "four Americans get killed, it's not optimal." That kind of blew up on the president for a few days because it sounded like --

PERINO: Not optimal --

HENRY: Not optimal --


HENRY: But he did ask substantive questions, we should point out.

BECKEL: Ed, welcome to "The Five."

One of reasons that you are here is that you don't have anything else to do, down at the White House, you can't get an interview, right?

HENRY: You guys don't do a lot in New York. This has been the easiest week.


PERINO: Don't tell anybody.

BECKEL: I have nothing except to say that I think Jon Stewart probably does ask some appropriate questions, but I don't -- these other interviews, I mean, let's face it, it is horse race questions. It is about polls. It's not about -- I mean, they don't give them much substance.

HENRY: But I think what you are trying to get at, what have me here was interesting is for Jay Carney to say that Jon Stewart was the toughest, most substantive interview. It makes you suggest that some of the interviews the president does are not that tough and at these news conferences, the president doesn't feel that challenge.

They're going to get ready for their next interview. Someone is going to wind up and hit them between the eyes.

BOLLING: Can I just throw a little curveball on this? What he's basically saying is Jon Stewart was tough. Well, let me tell you something, he had 20 minutes, Jon Stewart got 20 minutes with the president, two 10-minute segments. What he meant to say was lamestream, mainstream media is every single question they get, CBS, whoever sits there, the beach balls, they come in there, this big, they are big, they're fat, they're soft, you can see them coming. Anyone else?

Look, Bill O'Reilly asked him some tough questions. Bret Baier every other year gets to ask him a couple of questions. Completely different.

So, what Jay was saying basically -- I think that was more of a shot at the mainstream media than it was shot at you guys in the press corps --


HENRY: Yes, and that he's not really that challenged and they wanted to build up sort of these nontraditional forms of media.

And, by the way, I think to take another curveball into this is that the president is entitled to do interviews with "The Daily Show" every once in a while. I remember Dana doing with George W. Bush every once in a while.

PERINO: He never did that.

HENRY: And we shouldn't think we're the only ones who can talk to the president. There are a lot of different ways people get news, a lot of different ways you can reach people. But to suggest that's the most substantive toughest interview, either we're -- in general we're not being tough enough.

PERINO: I went on "The Daily Show," but the president never did.

HENRY: The president never did?


BECKEL: You went on "The Daily Show"?


BECKEL: Really? Was he nice to you?

PERINO: Yes, he was really nice to me.

HENRY: Was it tough?


PERINO: I didn't try to be funny.

TANTAROS: I actually think Bret Baier's interview that he did with the president was one of the best because it was noticeably -- he was agitated. You can always tell that the president has a tough interviewer, he got so thin-skinned, he got so agitated and it was so difficult for Bret to get the answers because he was actually asking tough questions, not what (INAUDIBLE) everyone, enchants you.

But I want to ask you this: how can, Ed, and you've spoken up about the lack of transparency at this White House, how can this White House --

HENRY: In some cases, yes.

TANTAROS: In some cases, but you were very vocal about it when they wouldn't let the press corps take pictures of the golf game. That's where the straw broke the camel's back.

How can they get away with doing things like, for example, Bob Woodward came out, veteran reporter, they tried to make him sound like a cry baby. But then you see the surveillance of James Rosen, then you see the surveillance of "The Associated Press," then you see the surveillance of James Rosen's parents -- how can they get away with it? Whose fault is it, is it the mainstream media's fault for not being tougher, or is it the White House's fault for being so insular?

HENRY: You got a lot of pieces in there. I mean, I'm not sure everything you tie together goes right at the heart of what we're doing here, because -- you know, some of the surveillance stuff that were specific investigations, you'd have to separate them out.

TANTAROS: It's unprecedented, isn't it?

HENRY: To your point though, the way I would answer is, is to say, you know, something else Jay Carney did take a little shot at FOX yesterday -- look, to just say that it's FOX that's coming out of the president. Well, wait a second, it was Jill Abramson, the executive editor of "The New York Times" who recently said this is the most secretive administration she's ever seen or ever covered because some of the issues you've mentioned about James Rosen and James Risen at "The New York Times," investigations.


BECKEL: I'm sorry. If we want to get an interview for FOX, a really serious interview, if Bolling has to have an interview, I think he'd get one right away.

HENRY: Really?


BOLLING: I can't get Jay Carney. Jay Carney once answered me on Twitter and that was the end of it.

Can we just talk about -- I'm sorry, Jedediah, very quickly -- something interesting happened at that first presser President Obama had of the year. He didn't ask anyone a question in the front row. He went to "Politico," he went to --

PERINO: That's terrible. That's bad precedent.

HENRY: Well, I think part of it was, this is the first full-fledged news conference he had at the White House this year, you're right. But when we were in New York a couple of weeks ago, he had a couple of smaller press conferences, and he called on CBS and ABC.

So, I think some of the folks in the front row had their crack at him recently. He thought he would mix it up and I also think he thought he'd get a better selection of questions. Instead of some of the pushing you see in the front row, he called them and some who asked I think about immigration. He got more of a health care question or two that might have been a little easier for him. So, I think --

PERINO: You are being so nice.

HENRY: I'm going back to the --


BECKEL: If that's a White House reporter or what?

PERINO: He's never in this position. He's never been --

HENRY: You know what? This is the toughest, most substantive interview I've ever given.

BECKEL: This is where you have to shout out. You don't stand on the front lawn of the White House --


BILA: I want to bring up actually -- I think it's really interesting that he's talking how the administration is the most transparent administration in history, at the same time that you have the RNC suing the IRS for documents saying hand over documents related to the targeting of conservative groups, and I'm curious your opinion.

I mean, is this a total lack of self-awareness from the administration or do they just think people are dumb and aren't following the news?

HENRY: Well, I think -- if you are going to frame it that way with the RNC -- I mean, obviously, Reince Priebus of the RNC is trying to make a political point by trying to get these documents. On the other hand, whether it's IRS and Fast and Furious, one story after another, there have been some documents turned over and other cases where there's more that have not been turned over.

So, it's a legitimate question for an administration that says they're transparent to seek more.

PERINO: Right.

HENRY: But I think when the RNC is filing lawsuits --

BILA: It's an odd parallel. We are so transparent but we can't --

PERINO: Can I ask you last question? I'm just curious about this. In Washington, White House reporters have sort of disparity weight. People focused on the White House so much.

HENRY: Inside game, yes.

PERINO: Do you think that citizens are being disserved by journalists that are not covering things that are happening at all the other cabinet agencies because everybody is focused on one White House briefing every day?

HENRY: That's a great question. We end up focusing on politics too much, and I think there's a lot of substantive stuff that affects our viewers. Take one agency, the Veterans Affairs Administration.


HENRY: They've got paperwork piled up literally in warehouses for people who want to get their veterans benefits and that's a question we should be asking the White House briefing frankly every week. Saying how are we doing on the backlog. These are people who served our country and they are waiting for their benefits.

And that's not just a Democratic administration or Republicans, it's just fundamental --


BECKEL: What about it? Why don't you ask the question?

HENRY: I'm going to do it next week.

BECKEL: All right. Good.

PERINO: Jay Carney has been warned. The question is coming.

HENRY: See, Beckel gets charge, I think --

TANTAROS: But, Ed, if you didn't take a stand on it, do you think their manipulative? Do you agree with Jill Abramson? Do you think the White House is the least transparent --

HENRY: I don't think she said manipulative. She said secretive.

TANTAROS: They've said secretive. I've used the word she first (ph) said manipulative. Do you think so? What do you think?

HENRY: I mean, look, every administration tries to manipulate the media.

TANTAROS: Don't spin us. What do you think?

HENRY: Everybody does.


PERINO: I did not.

HENRY: While they're talking about it, you asked about thin-skinned before. Dana used to come after me every now and the. There's a photo of her staring me down when I --


HENRY: This is a tough cookie right here.

PERINO: Are you taking lessons from Beckel at changing the subject?

BOLLING: Here's what everyone wants to find out, Ed Henry. If you meet Jay Carney at a bar, at Capitol grill, will you have a drink together?

HENRY: We will.

PERINO: Yes, definitely.

HENRY: I haven't done it a long time, but if we bump into each other --

PERINO: Let me ask you, will he buy us a drink?



HENRY: Direct answer, no.

Beckel bought me lunch the other day and none of the four of you --

PERINO: You never bought us lunch.

OK. Next week, you are buying us lunch and then you are going to get taxed by the IRS for it.

BECKEL: A cheap date (ph).

PERINO: Ed, we love you. You're a great guest on "The Five."

All right. Coming up, some call the supporters of Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy patriotic, but the Senate's majority leader calls them terrorists. And Bundy has a few words for him, next.


BOLLING: Poor vinegar on baking soda, is erupts. Allow Harry Reid open his big mouth on the Vegas ranchers story, and honest Americans get slandered.


SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: These people, who hold themselves out to be patriots, are not. They are nothing more than domestic terrorists. We are a country that people should follow the law. What went up there is domestic terrorism.


BOLLING: That asinine comment drew instant and wide-ranging reaction from the Bundy family to lawmakers. Last night on Hannity I sat down and spoke with Clive Bundy about his thoughts and the senator's remarks.


CLIVE BUNDY, RANCHER: We're definitely citizens riled up. I don't know whether you can call them terrorists. There's the most loving people here I've ever met in my life. And we're meeting here together, and they are definitely upset about this government that pulls their gun on us and, you know, they're -- I don't know. I just can't see how he gets this type of description out of these people.


BOLLING: These people. So Bob, here's the issue. Senator Reid talked about all the people, not only the family members there but the people who are supporting the thing. These -- those people haven't violated any laws, but he called them terrorists, too.

BECKEL: I think the mistake here was forget the use of the word domestic terrorist. The mere fact that he reacts to it so much, this guy, Bundy belongs in jail. He has broken the law.

BOLLING: Let's stay on Harry Reid. He's the Senate majority leader who called Americans...

BECKEL: ... with that flag one more time, I'm going to go nuts.

BECKEL: Bob, those people haven't done anything wrong. They went to -- they went to this town to support the Bundys. They haven't broken any law. He grouped them as domestic terrorists.

BECKEL: I think he's talking about the militia. And you know, some - - remember that period of time when we had ...

PERINO: That was baloney. Baloney. This week, we are marking the anniversary of the Boston Marathon bombing. That's a domestic terrorist. And when you have a leader of the Senate watering down what is a terrorist and what are law-abiding citizens who are supporting someone who may be out of compliance with grazing fees. You cannot compare the two, and if you do, you water down the ability to deal with them.

I think that that line, "domestic terrorist" was either driven by a staff or poll, because I can bet that Harry Reid was somehow trying to raise some kind of funds for Democrats, based on this situation. Shameful.

BOLLING: Well, he repeated it a couple times, to make sure he got it.

PERINO: Exactly.

TANTAROS: It's right out of the progressive playbook, right? Go after your enemies. Go after them with words that don't apply to them.

I don't know why Harry Reid, though, would go after his own constituents. To me, it seems very short-sighted. But to them -- the goal right now is keeping the Senate and probably raising money of some sort and trying to retain his majority in the Senate.

I just don't know why you would go after people with harsher words than actual terrorists. We talked about this in the A block. Why don't people speak up against real terrorists? They have no problem calling ranchers terrorists, but then radical Islamists? They say, "Oh, they're misunderstood. They're troubled, and we should be nice to them."

BOLLING: Take a listen. Rand Paul happened to be booked on this on the Hannity show. When this broke, we moved him down a little bit. He reacted. He was a little upset, a little perturbed about Harry Reid, Senate majority leader. Remember, Senate. He was perturbed; take a listen.


SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I think what we should all be calling for is for calmer heads to prevail. I don't want to see violence on either side.

I don't think calling people's names is going to calm this down. I think it's liable to stir it up. So I think all parties, including Senator Reid, should calm the rhetoric a little bit. Let's try to have a peaceful resolution to this.


BOLLING: Go ahead.

BILA: I think he's 100 percent right. And look, this is a legal issue, Bob. You're right. This is something that should have been worked out in court.

BOLLING: That's right.

BILA: The federal government showed up with helicopters, with Tasers. They were putting people in First Amendment zones. The federal government needs to be told we have a First Amendment zone in this country. It's called the United States. So the way the -- the optics of the way the government reacted, I think, is what got people awake. This guy may be legally in the wrong. I'm giving you that. But the way they handled this was off the -- off the rails.

BECKEL: Yes, but you know something? They've been trying to do this through the courts with this guy for 15 years, and he refused to pay his fees on the assumption that he said his family was ranching here before the, you know, Bureau of Land Management. The fact is that -- why are we sitting here and excusing...

BILA: I'm not excusing it.

PERINO: How can you, Bob, excuse Harry Reid using a phrase...?

BECKEL: I didn't excuse him.

PERINO: Yes, you did. You said the real issue here is Clive Bundy. No, actually, it's the leader of the United States Senate calling a known citizen a domestic terrorist when grazing fees might have been violated, but nobody has been murdered. That's what domestic terrorism is, and if you start watering that down.

BECKEL: I agree. It was a bad choice of words.

BOLLING: Let's not forget.

PERINO: But it wasn't just a bad choice of words. It was a decision.

TANTAROS: A deliberate choice of words.

BOLLING: He's talking about people who -- there was a First Amendment right to protest in this country. You can be heard. That's all those people did, was they showed up and they were protesting whatever was going on. Protesting now is domestic terrorism?

BILA: And these are the same people who couldn't talk about Bill Ayres. That's an actual domestic terrorist.

TANTAROS: Harry Reid is Cliven Bundy's senator. Harry Reid's job is to bring this to a resolution, to serve his constituent. This is his constituent. This is not his enemy. His job is to work the system. He's very powerful in Nevada. Why he's not doing it is...?

BOLLING: We've got to -- they're yelling at me. We've got to go.

Next, little kids are now partying at some of New York's hottest night club alongside adults who are boozing it up. Is that really the right scene for kids? We're going to debate that...

PERINO: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: ... when we come back.


TANTAROS: Well, it's one of the hottest new scenes in New York City, but you don't have to be 21 to get in.




TANTAROS: A company called Fuzipop is throwing raves at night clubs for kids mostly between the ages of 6 and 12 so they can experience the dance party scene. The kids are served juice boxes while some of the adults who come with them are toting cocktails. What could possibly grow wrong? Could they grow up, maybe, like these celebs?




TANTAROS: All right. So raves as birthday parties for young kids, Eric.

BOLLING: You went to the right person.

TANTAROS: Would you ever combine the two...?

BOLLING: You went to the right one.

TANTAROS: ... your fun and your kids' fun when your kids were six years old?

BOLLING: So here's the deal. About three -- two or three weeks ago, my son calls me up. He's out with some friends; it's a Saturday. He said goes, "Dad, I got to come home and get 20 bucks."

I said, "What do you need 20 bucks for?"

He goes, "I'm going to this -- I'm going to Hyperglow."

I go, "What's Hyperglow?"

He goes, "You don't know about Hyperglow? What's wrong with you?"

It's a -- I go on the Internet. I looked at it. It's a traveling tour of these rave parties, and it starts from 16 years old on up.

PERINO: You're going to have a heart attack.

PERINO: Let me tell you. And you go to the videos? Wow.

I will tell you, though, when I was 16, I definitely would have loved to have gone to the Hyperglow parties. I don't think anything good can possibly -- he didn't go, by the way. I don't think anything good...

PERINO: Are you sure he didn't go? Uh-oh.

BOLLING: Well, he didn't get 20 bucks from me.

TANTAROS: Bob, you know New York is a little over the top and the birthday parties here are known to be over the top. Is it a bad thing to have kids dancing if there's no alcohol present?

BECKEL: Well, if there's no alcohol present, I suppose it's OK. But I mean, I don't -- it depends on what you put up to listen to them. If you listen to that -- the poster child for prostitution, Miley Cyrus, then I think it's a bad idea. But if you -- these kids are impressionable.

My brother had -- his daughter had eight kids over for dinner. And by the time my brother came back, there were 200 people in the house. Right? And he had to get the cops in to get it cleared out. This day and age, man, anything that gives you an opportunity to go out and express themselves, they're going to do it. I don't think it's a good idea. I think it's a terrible idea.

TANTAROS: What do you think, Jedediah? Three-hour dance parties are $20 per person or it's $50 for a family. So it's actually cheaper if you bring the whole gang.

BILA: Whatever happened to the local school dance at the gymnasium? I'm sounding really old now, but that's what we did when we were younger.

I think this is for the parents. I think the parents see it as an opportunity to go hang out, get a night off. The kids are there; they can sort of keep an eye on them. But if you look at that, I mean, some of these articles were saying kids as young as six, seven, eight years old, they want to go to Chuck E. Cheese. They don't want to be dancing in places like that. Moms and dads do.

TANTAROS: Whatever happened to Chuck E. Cheese? They actually have a 6-year-old deejay at these parties. He's 6 years old.

PERINO: That sounds fantastic. And as long as there's no height requirement, Greg Gutfeld might be able to...


PERINO: He's banned from going there.

My favorite birthday party, I remember, was that we had it in the backyard and we played Pin the Tail on the Donkey. Remember that game, Pin the Tail on the Donkey?

TANTAROS: Wasn't that your birthday party last year? That was just last year.

PERINO: That's how I became a Republican.

BECKEL: I don't know. My birthday was right after the Civil War. I don't even know if we had it at that point.

But you know, I don't -- You're talking about the gymnasium. I used to go to a teen club. That was a big deal. Now, of course, a lot of people brought some booze in and some other stuff...

TANTAROS: You know what I worry about? Is that if kids are getting these experiences, then they have nothing to look forward to. Like, we had a clown and we had a magician or a roller skating party. We worked up to the night club.

PERINO: Exactly.

BILA: What are they going to be doing at 17, 18, 21?

TANTAROS: Exactly.

BOLLING: No idea.

PERINO: It's actually a lot cheaper -- Eric, am I right from the thing I sent you last week? It's a lot cheaper for a family to go to a dance party like this than it is to a baseball game. Remember?

BOLLING: Oh, my God. A hot dog and, I don't know, soda is like 30 bucks now in a -- I mean, it's insane. To go to a baseball, like a Major League baseball game, especially in some of the bigger cities, it's several hundred dollars to bring your family.


PERINO: ... to see my parents dancing to that, though.

BILA: Can you imagine?

TANTAROS: All right. Coming up, it's going to be quite a high holiday on Easter Sunday in Colorado, where pot smokers will be turning out in droves to smoke up. But should 4/20 be postponed? That's up next.


BILA: It's Easter on Sunday, and while many Americans will be in church on one of the holiest days of the year, others will be outside celebrating a different holiday of sorts.

Four-twenty has become known as National Weed Day for marijuana users, and this year it happens to coincide with Easter. Colorado is gearing up for its first big smoke-out since recreational pot became legal in the state. But should the festivities be canceled this year?

All right, Bob, I have to go to you first. Should they have done this on Easter, or should they move it to another day?

BECKEL: Well, they should, but the reason they won't move it is because it's actually been ingrained in the calendar. Four-twenty was the call, police call for marijuana use. That's where it came from originally. And there's going to be a lot of people smoking dope. I think it's terrible.

If there's anything you should change, it's on this, the most -- for me, anyway -- the most holy day of the year. But they're not going to change it because they're going to have -- last year they had 300,000 people out there in Colorado. That was before it was legal. Can you imagine what it's going to be like this Sunday?

BILA: Eric, on that point, I want -- I did some research, and Denver hotel searches for this weekend, reports are showing jumped by 73 percent. Does that surprise you?

BOLLING: You want to know something? We talked a lot about this, what was the legalization of pot going to do for Denver, for the state of Colorado, and it's doing exactly what we thought it was. It's going to be bringing in a lot of tourism. It's going to pump up the economy, and a lot of tax revenue is coming to the state.

What did we say, $160 million or something?

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: In this just short period of time alone. So weed is clearly helping the Denver economy.

Now then you run into these social issues where 4/20 happens to fall on Easter Sunday, so what do you do? I guess what do you do is, I don't know, hold a mass at the...

BILA: What? What? Combine the two, you're saying?

TANTAROS: What, joints for Jesus?

PERINO: I thought that was a joke.

BOLLING: I'm a very -- I'm a very strict Catholic. No.

TANTAROS: What would that be called, Joints for Jesus?

BOLLING: Or Pot and Then Peeps. Something like that.

TANTAROS: Prayer and Pot?

BILA: Clever.

Dana, I have to ask you, because last year, some people were shot and wounded at the event. It got really out of hand. What do you think? Do you think this is an event that's just too crazy in general, Easter aside?

PERINO: For me, yes.


PERINO: I'm just -- I go back and forth on whether I think legalization of marijuana is a good idea. I'm thinking it's like -- I understand the experiment. I'm glad that I never was tempted to smoke pot because...

BECKEL: Are you kidding me? You're one of original stoners.

PERINO: That's why I -- you know, that's why I have no brain cells left.

BECKEL: Well, that's...

PERINO: I'm concerned. And I'm concerned about building up an economy based on people getting high.

BILA: Right.

PERINO: It's just -- it's a little bit too risky for me.

BILA: Andrea, what do you think? And also there have been studies out recently that, when young people are smoking pot, there are brain abnormalities that are developing in them. Northwestern, I believe, just recently did a study on that. So do you think that...

TANTAROS: Exhibit A.

BECKEL: Excuse me. Who is this talking about 4/20 when you were in college? What were you doing?

TANTAROS: I did not.

BECKEL: You didn't? I just outed you.

TANTAROS: You don't have a good memory, remember?

BECKEL: That's true.

TANTAROS: From smoking too much pot.

You know what? I think there's something fundamentally wrong about getting really stoned on Easter Sunday. I do. But these stoners do have a First Amendment right to celebrate on a Sunday, April 20, in any way that they want. That's the beauty of America. If you want to celebration the resurrection of Christ, you can do that. If you want to get stoned out of your brain and eat a bag of Cheetos, you can do that.

So I say keep the festival, and some people can go to church.

PERINO: It's become a new religion.

BECKEL: Evidence No. 1.

TANTAROS: Oh, shut up, Bob.

PERINO: The legalization of marijuana, and global warming are like, it's the new religion. Everyone -- because they can bring everybody together.

BILA: They can't smoke out in public, just so you guys know. That's what they're saying. So I'm sure there are going to be a lot of arrests.

PERINO: With all those people?

BOLLING: There are 500,000 people.

BECKEL: You said Cheetos and smoking. Any good stoner knows that Cheetos is the best thing to be...

BILA: All right. I've got to go, guys. "One More Thing" is coming up next.


BECKEL: I'm not interested in this in band closing the show out. But my "One More Thing" is, first of all, I want to wish all my fellow Christians an absolutely wonderful Easter. It's the most important day on our calendar, I think.

But also for kids, there's Easter candy. Now, I happen to like Easter candy, and I want to share this with -- I wish I can share it with you all there. I was actually eating jellybeans just before I came back from the break, and I've still got them in my teeth.

Anyway, does anybody -- you want some jellybeans here?

BOLLING: Sure, I'll take some.

BECKEL: Come on, hand them around. Everybody has -- who likes the chocolate? These are great.

PERINO: I do. I have a little bunny here. Oh, yes.

TANTAROS: The chocolate bunny?

BECKEL: They're great. You open these things up and you get all kinds of good chocolate.

TANTAROS: You know that my neighbor growing up, the Borne (ph) family, that they make these?

BECKEL: Really?

TANTAROS: Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

PERINO: The best thing is when you open them a little bit and they get crunchy. And you take the jellybean.

BECKEL: Well, you start with the rabbit. You start eating the ear. So you take the ear first and you go all the way down and then you end up eating the other side.

TANTAROS: The bum.

BOLLING: We're not going to have -- I'm supposed to go. Very quickly, "Cashin' In" tomorrow morning. Please DVR this show. It's another good one. Reverend Al said President Obama got crucified and has been resurrected. Is it fair to compare President Obama to Jesus Christ on the holiest weekend of the year for Christians? Senator Reid's comments, and this one, Keystone Pipeline got delayed yet again. We need to talk about that. That has to be a discussion.

BECKEL: All right. Dana.

PERINO: Well, Eric and I are on the same page, because I was going to mention the Keystone Pipeline as well. But I'm going to do it in the context of this.

Democratic -- I'm sorry, the midterm elections is only six and a half months away. You heard the president yesterday really trying to push, because he knows that the Democrats are in trouble. More evidence of that today in Politico this morning, reporting that incumbents in the House, Democrats, are really in trouble. They're having to shore them up. Five more of the Senate seats are actually now competitive. And then President Obama today at the White House delaying that decision on Keystone once again, even though the said the most important thing we could do is focus on jobs. So I think they're in trouble.

BECKEL: OK. That's terrible. Andrea.

TANTAROS: Philly fans, do not be dismayed. I know last night was very tough. Philadelphia got spanked by the New York Rangers in game one of the Stanley Cup...

BECKEL: Spanked?

TANTAROS: ... play-offs. Yes. But look, there's another game. It's on Sunday. There's more games, so we're going to...

BILA: On Easter Sunday?

TANTAROS: Easter Sunday.

BECKEL: Jedediah, we're got a few. A few seconds.

TANTAROS: Go Flyers.

BECKEL: Go ahead.

BILA: Well, llama lovers, if you're a llama lover like me, there is an amazing video. A llama spent hours wondering around Trinidad State University. It's adorable.

Look at it. Don't you want one? I want to adopt it so badly.

BECKEL: You want one?

BILA: Yes. Of course. It's adorable! It wondered around It wasn't aggressive, but when police would approach it, it would run. So they wound up chasing it for a really long time.

And apparently, it's from a property nearby. A lot of the llamas wander. If you want me to take any of your llamas; you don't want them...

TANTAROS: Where are you going to put a llama?

BILA: In my bedroom. I'll bathe it in the bathtub.

BECKEL: Yes, well, in your bedroom. Of course, it has bad diseases.

BILA: It's so cute.

BECKEL: Listen now, don't forget to set your DVRs so you never miss an episode "The Five."

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