Giuliani on why he doesn't believe accusations against Trump; Commission co-chair previews third presidential debate

This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," October 16, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARIA BARTIROMO, HOST: Good Sunday morning, everybody. What a close race. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Maria Bartiromo. Welcome to "Sunday Morning Futures."

Brand-new polls out this morning show only a few points between the two candidates now. This coming after several women accused Donald Trump of inappropriate behavior. We'll speak to Trump adviser Rudy Giuliani of the Trump campaign as the final debate approaches.

Plus, another e-mail drop by WikiLeaks rocking the Clinton campaign this weekend. The latest batch reveals leaked Hillary Clinton speeches to Goldman Sachs where she showed sympathy to Wall Street. The impact on the race as we look ahead right now on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO: The campaign is fighting back this morning against allegations of sexual assault being lodged against Donald Trump, dismissing the accusations as phony. Plus, the GOP candidate repeatedly calling the election rigged.

In a four-way race, a new "Washington Post"/ABC News poll this morning shows now Clinton out by just four points over Trump, despite all the activity over the last few weeks. The poll was taken last week after the allegations against Trump surfaced.

Joining me right now is the former New York City mayor and a senior adviser, Rudy Giuliani.

Good to see you.


BARTIROMO: Thank you so much for joining us, Mr. Mayor.

Good poll numbers this morning. What do you think is behind this situation? Even after all of it?

GIULIANI: I think the fact is the American people have a lot of common sense and they realize allegations like this don't emerge 27 days before an election from here and here and here and here. And it's all like coincidental, with all of the WikiLeaks revelations about her which allows the liberal press to bury the WikiLeaks revelations which are far more relevant really. Donald Trump's personal life -- look, next year, someone is going to be in the White House. Either the taxes are going to go up or down. It doesn't matter what his personal life or her personal life, the money is going to come out of my pocket or money is going to be in my pocket.

BARTIROMO: That's good. Yes, you're right.

GIULIANI: Next year, somebody is going to have to really stand up to ISIS because Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama created ISIS. It can't be Hillary. It has to be somebody new.

His personal life -- and by the way, I think these allegations are not true. I'm going to tell you why I think they're not true. I'm not going to put my lawyer's hat on, because I haven't had a chance to examine it as a lawyer, but I'm doing it as a friend of Donald Trump's.


GIULIANI: I have known him for 28 years. I have been in every circumstance imaginable with him, I think. I have seen him with women all the time. I know men who are inappropriate and I don't like it. I have never seen him one time, one time, act inappropriate to a woman.

BARTIROMO: Hmm, you know --

GIULIANI: And there were other men in public, public figures, that I can say something far different about, who go around putting their hands on every woman imaginable. One of them is very close to the Democratic candidate for president.

BARTIROMO: You're talking about Bill Clinton.

GIULIANI: I observed that and my wife has observed that.

BARTIROMO: It's interesting because for the last several weeks, WikiLeaks has been promising us more. That Julian Assange has been saying, there will be more closer to the election. So, that gave the Clinton campaign a whole lot of time to say, OK, whatever this stuff is that they have, they're going to leak, let's make sure to contact some women who know Donald Trump. Let's go back and try to figure out what we can do to offset this --

GIULIANI: Thirty years ago on an airplane. First class 30 years ago was considerably more luxurious than it is today. Flight attendants were all over you every five minutes. It's only six to eight to ten people in the cabin. Couldn't possibly have happened. It's on its face not true. And then a man has come forward who said it's not true. I don't know --

BARTIROMO: He said he was on the flight.

GIULIANI: He's lucky.

But, I mean -- look, people could come forward and say anything. Why do they do it? They do it for fame, they do it for money. One represented by Gloria Allred, you're not going to tell me that's not for money. I know Gloria Allred. She's in for this.

BARTIROMO: Oh, wow. You know what? Just looking at these polls this morning tells you that the American people are actually putting that aside.  Putting certainly the comments that we know he said on tape aside.

Let's talk about the debate. Wednesday night is critical. You know this.

GIULIANI: I like the way Chris Wallace has organized the topics. And if he stays in the order of the topics, it will be fabulous because he puts fitness for president last, which means it will be consigned to about ten minutes. So, that's all it deserves.

Look, there are lots of reasons she's going to argue he shouldn't be president, lots of reasons he'll argue why she shouldn't be. But, first --

BARTIROMO: Yes. Let's talk about economy --

GIULIANI: -- the economy is going to come. Immigration, foreign policy, these are things that really, really concern us. Who is going to stop the mass group of people coming into this country?

Now, we have WikiLeaks to support the fact she wants open borders, sanctuary city, amnesty. She wants a global economy.


GIULIANI: In one of her speeches, I don't know if it was Goldman Sachs or one of the other institutions where she got $250,000. She said her real goal is kind of hemispheric global economy. That means we give up our sovereignty. She wants to do exactly what England just pulled out of.

BARTIROMO: And that's what people are afraid of, because they see what just happened with all of the refugees coming into Europe and how it flooded --

GIULIANI: She wants that for us. She wants to increase the number of Syrian refugees by 550 percent more than Obama. She is on this issue to the left of Obama on this issue.

We had our view of Hillary, meaning us Republicans. We always thought of her as being phony, says something in public, different in private. I've always thought of her as being a liar, now we see on WikiLeaks that she is.

We always thought of her as really being much more of a socialist than her husband was. She basically said in another speech in Canada that she prefers the Canadian socialist medicine system.


GIULIANI: We always knew that.

BARTIROMO: So these are just confirming.

GIULIANIA: You know something? I wasn't wrong.


GIULIANI: All my liberal friends told me I was wrong. She's really not for socialized medicine, she said it. She's for socialized medicine.

BARTIROMO: But, look, she was secretary of state. She's going to have all the details and specifics in terms of foreign policy, where we were, where she believes we need to go. How is Donald Trump prepare?

GIULIANI: Very simple answer. Hillary, you got all the facts, all the figures and you don't have a single success. You just failed and failed and failed. You helped to create ISIS by pulling out of -- by pulling out of Iraq with no troops. What do you mean you couldn't get a status of forces agreement?

If Donald Trump or Obama sent me to Iraq, I would have got a status of force agreement. I would put it in front of them saying you're going to sign it.


GIULIANI: You see all the troops out there, you're going to sign it.

BARTIROMO: And that status of forces agreement protected our troops.

GIULIANI: We prop your government. You're going to sign that damn thing or we're going to have a new head of your government. Somebody has to get tough. Somebody has got to --

BARTIROMO: But aside from criticizing her --

GIULIANI: She's announced no troops on the ground. He said that's an option I will consider. He hasn't said he's going to do it, but it's an option he will consider.

BARTIROMO: Will he have a specific plan to take down ISIS? Will he have a specific plan to deal with Russia?

GIULIANI: We have a lot of things we have to deal with. We can't just focus on ISIS. We can't just focus on Russia. We can't just focus on China, or al Qaeda.

Here's what we have to do. We have to build up our military. We have -- what Obama and Clinton want to do is take our military down to World War I levels.

So, he very specifically has said he wants 450,000 troops. They want to go down to 420,000. I'm sorry, he wants 550,000 troops. They want to go to 420,000. That's a much bigger army.

He wants a marine corps that has eight to ten more battalions. He wants a navy with 350 ships. They're going to go down to 220, 230. Incapable of 220 and 230 to fight a two-ocean war, and we let China take over the South China Sea, and he wants to increase our aircraft, our fighter aircraft by about 400 or 500, and he wants to modernize our nuclear capacity and our military capacity.

So, what he's doing is he wants to build up a situation like Reagan did.  He wants to be able to negotiate from strength, with the largest military in the world, incapable of being matched by anybody, incapable of being challenged by anybody, and able to fight conventional wars or asymmetrical wars with, of course, the best special forces that have ever existed which we already have and we'll just make them better.

BARTIROMO: What is going to be success for you walking out of the debate Wednesday night? What will it take for you to feel like you won?

GIULIANI: That we've gotten to the issues and I think this is why Chris Wallace is such an excellent moderator because Chris is going to be tough on Donald, he knows that, and he's going to be tough on Hillary. He's going to be fair and square right down the middle. That's all we want.

I think when we come out of this, I want people to know he's going to lower your taxes, he can put more money back in your pocket. She's going to take taxes away. He's going to get rid of Obamacare. She's going to go to socialized medicine. He's going to stand up to ISIS, with a much bigger army, a much bigger navy, a much bigger air force than we have right now, and he's not going to be saying no boots on the ground, no boots on the ground, no boots on the ground, which sends a sign of such terrible weakness.

He's going to say instead, I don't want war. I'd rather not have war. But if you push me, I am capable of making the decision.

BARTIROMO: Is he going to release any names of the people he's considering for her cabinet? When we have spoken in the past, you said as we get closer to the election, he even told me when he came on the show on the FOX Business Network.

GIULIANI: I think he might. I think it's was something to think about.  He was focused so much on the Supreme Court. He's listed 18 for the Supreme Court.

She's listed none, by the way. Because she doesn't want to tell us what kind of whackos she wants to put on the Supreme Court.

BARTIROMO: This is going to be incredible.

GIULIANI: I would love to view her five or six, they want to redo the Constitution and make us an international government, and we should be using international law instead of American law.

BARTIROMO: You think that will help Trump where.

GIULIANI: Oh, yes, I want a couple of those names, because I bet I can get more interview articles about she has become part of the whole international scene and we're no better a country than anybody else.

BARTIROMO: Incredible. Rudy Giuliani, great to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.

GIULIANI: Thanks, Maria.

BARTIROMO: Coming up next, what can we expect in this final debate on Wednesday night in Las Vegas? I'll speak with one of the debate commissioners next. We'll get his angle on what he would like to see.

Let us know what you would like to see from Frank Fahrenkopf who will join me next live. On Twitter @MariaBartiromo, @SundayFutures. Send us a tweet.

Stay with us. We're looking ahead right now on "Sunday Morning Futures."  Back in a moment.


BARTIROMO: Well, countdown mode to the third and final debate is set for this Wednesday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time, live from the campus of the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

And for the first time ever, a Fox News journalist will moderate a general election presidential debate. Our own "Fox News Sunday" anchor Chris Wallace.

Here are the topics that Chris has laid out: Debt and entitlements, number one, the economy, the Supreme Court, immigration, foreign hot spots, and the candidates' fitness to serve as president. These are the topics that Chris will go through.

Joining me right now is Frank Fahrenkopf. He is the co-chairman of the Commission on Presidential Debates.

And, Frank, it is good to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.


BARTIROMO: From your standpoint, what should we expect Wednesday night?

FAHRENKOPF: Well, you know, the focus of the Commission on Presidential Debates has always been to educate, help educate the voters on where the candidates are on the major issues. And as Rudy just explained in your interview prior to my coming on, Chris Wallace has laid out some really critical issues as far as I know really have not been discussed in detail in the prior debates.

I'm talking about, number one, the whole question of the national debt, the whole question of what we do about entitlements, what we do about immigration, what we do about the economy, the Supreme Court, et cetera.  So, I'm hopeful that the candidates, with Chris's prodding as the moderator, will really drill down on these issues.

As you know, the format here is the same as the first debate. Chris will divide the 90 minutes into six 15-minute segments. He'll start by asking a question on one of those topics he mentioned. Each candidate will get two minutes to respond. And then, Chris can drill down, and we hope will get some interplay and discussion between the candidates. So, I'm hoping that we're really going to learn a lot more about the candidates' positions on those issues.

BARTIROMO: And it's really important he has debt and entitlements in there. This is an issue that we have not been talking at all as it relates to the economy and the impact of the $20 trillion in debt that this country faces.

Let me ask you this, Frank, who is in the audience? Give us some color on the room that night.


BARTIROMO: How is the audience broken up? What should we expect in terms of the crowd right there live?

FAHRENKOPF: Well, I don't have the final count. I think even though this arena is a basketball arena and will hold 18,000 people, by the time we build the anchor booth for the networks and the Secret Service drapes off areas that they don't want anyone sitting in because of the possible danger to the candidates, it will probably be around 1,100 seats.

Now, one third of the tickets will go to Secretary Clinton. One third of the tickets will go to Mr. Trump. And the other one third is split between the commission and the school.

Now, the school, as I understand it, is holding sort of a raffle as to which students will be allowed to have seats, although we really involve the student body wherever we go in being ushers, working. And so, we usually involve 1,000 or more students as part of what we're doing as part of the educational function.

And so, who is in the seats is up to the candidates, who they put on the seats, and we hope as you know, we go out on stage, at the beginning to say, please don't clap, please don't cheer, please don't boo. It's been pretty good. Although this time, this cycle, we had a couple times when there's been applause when there shouldn't be. I'm sure that Chris will warn the audience of that also.

BARTIROMO: Yes. And so, how does that sort of play into the dynamic of it? The live audience, and how you divvy up the seats?

FAHRENKOPF: Well, that has nothing to do with it. I mean, we don't make that determination. We don't ask, you know, who they're going to have in their seats and where they're going to sit. That's up to them. They have the tickets.


FAHRENKOPF: But historically, we have really had a lot of luck by keeping the audience out of it, because you know what happens when you applaud, you take away time from the candidates and from the moderator.

I think the reason we're having a problem this time, Maria, is those primary debates that were held were so many months, people were cheering and yelling. And so, it's hard to go back to where we were in past cycles when there really was not that sort of interruption.

BARTIROMO: Yes, I was there. It was difficult when you had 16 people onstage, certainly, during the primaries.

FAHRENKOPF: Right, right.

BARTIROMO: Let me ask you, Frank, in terms of the polls this morning, we were talking about them with Rudy Giuliani and I've got Newt Gingrich coming up to talk more about it. What's your take on that? Does that tell you anything about where we are leading into the debate, which, of course, is going to be critical?

FAHRENKOPF: I think what we're seeing here is a continuation of what we saw in both primaries. The American people have fundamentally, for a couple of years, been very unhappy with most institutions. It's not only with Washington, Congress, the White House, but you know, some of the problems, I'm Catholic, I know you are. The problems in the Catholic Church, corporations, banks.

So, there's an uneasiness, an unhappiness among the American people, and they're looking where they're going to go to make the right decision for the future.

BARTIROMO: Right. And real quick, Frank, I know that Chris has released the topics. Will anyone see those questions that Chris is going to be asking before this debate?

FAHRENKOPF: Absolutely not. The moderators are the sole judge of what they're going to ask. We the commission don't see them, the candidate don't see them, the campaigns don't see them.

You know, it's in the integrity of Chris as it was previously with our moderators. That's one of our hallmarks when we ask someone to be a moderator, that those questions are theirs.

It's not Fox News. Even though Chris works for Fox News.


FAHRENKOPF: We picked Chris Wallace because of his integrity and his history. The same was true of the other moderators in the cycle.

BARTIROMO: Right. This is great.

OK, Frank, we'll be watching.

FAHRENKOPF: Thanks, Maria.

BARTIROMO: An important debate. We appreciate your time this morning.  We'll see you soon, sir.

Up next, the battleground states, what the latest polls reveal.

Plus, the ads hitting the airwaves. Pollster Frank Luntz is joining me and he's going to take a look at all of that as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures" right now.

Stay with us.


BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

We are counting down to the final showdown this Wednesday night, and election day, you voters in those battleground states better buckle up.  You are very likely to get bombarded with political advertising if it hasn't happened already, especially from Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump's campaigns.

States like Ohio, for example, where a brand-new "Wall Street Journal"/NBC News/Marist College poll finds Trump leading by one point, 42 percent to 41 percent. And then there's North Carolina, that same poll finds Clinton up by four points, 45 percent to Trump's 41 percent.

Joining me right now is Frank Luntz. He is a pollster and FOX News contributor that we all watch.

Frank, good to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.

FRANK LUNTZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Glad to -- I don't know if I'm glad to be part of this election cycle, but I'm glad to be here this morning.

BARTIROMO: It really has been extraordinary, hasn't it, Frank?

So, first, these polls. How extraordinary is it to you that after all of this, that we have seen and heard and reported on around the Trump campaign last couple weeks, he's only down by four points. What does that say?

LUNTZ: It tells me that Hillary Clinton is still incredibly unliked and millions of Americans do not want to vote for her. The same could be said about Donald Trump.

I'll give you three key statistics. Number one, we have never had a campaign where both party's candidates have more than 50 percent who dislike them. Number two, we never had a situation where 1 out of 4 voters are going to vote for someone who they dislike on Election Day. And number three, there's really only about 3 percent left that can move in either direction, and another 3 percent or 4 percent who are uncommitted. They have a preference, but they're not yet ready to make that commitment.

And so, Wednesday night is going to determine this election. Donald Trump will need an awesome, awesome performance if he is to become credible and have a chance of winning in November.

BARTIROMO: So, what do you hear from the focus groups that you speak with in terms of that? Do they believe it's possible? What do they want to see?

LUNTZ: They want to see what the candidates are for, not what they're against. They can't stand the advertising.

So, I brought with me two examples. The first one I want to start with is the Trump ad against Hillary Clinton that really upsets voters because they think that it goes too far, and yet they actually believe the information in the ad. Let's take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Extremely careless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: E-mail system was breached by hostile actors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gross negligence.

AD NARRATOR: Hillary Clinton put our national security at risk and she's still lying.

HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Director Comey said that my answers were truthful.


AD NARRATOR: Even the Washington Post says Hillary Clinton lied, comparing her to Pinocchio.

CLINTON: I may have short circuited. And for that, I --

AD NARRATOR: Careless, reckless, crooked, putting her interests ahead of national security. Don't let Hillary Clinton do it again.



LUNTZ: Sixty-eight percent of Americans, 68 percent, believe that Hillary Clinton does not have the honesty and integrity to be president. In all the time that that question has been asked, no modern candidate has ever had a higher percentage of people rejecting their integrity.

But, now let me show you the Clinton ad against Donald Trump that once again up sets a lot of people and yet they still believe the content.  Let's take a look.


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think my strongest asset may be far is my temperament.

Would like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you.

I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.

I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?

And you can tell them to go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) themselves.

Get him out of here. Get him out of here. Get the hell out of here.


LUNTZ: It's amazing. I mean, when we showed the ad, people were laughing.  I can see your reaction to it.

BARTIROMO: Unbelievable.

LUNTZ: It's unbelievable. And this is the campaign and this is why the public cannot wait for this whole thing to be over. It feels like Halloween and Groundhog Day every single day of the year.

BARTIROMO: So, what is the most important question you ask your focus groups when actually looking at them to vote on Election Day? What do you think is going to really move them on Election Day?

LUNTZ: Well, first thing is, the thing the candidates need to answer is, what is the first thing they're going to do on day one? They take the oath of office at noon. They get to the White House at about 3:30 or 4:00 p.m.  What is the very first thing they do?

Second is, who do you want to wake up to on Wednesday after the election.  At 6:00 a.m., your alarm clock goes off. The TV comes on. Who do you want to be listening to you on that day, and every day, for the next four years?

I have to tell you, Maria, I would have thought that Hillary Clinton had this wrapped up. Everything I learned in the 30 years I have been doing this says she should be the next president.

And yet, I continue to have doubts because she cannot close it. There are too many concerns, too many hesitations -- too much anxiety about her as a person. And yet, they're not willing to support Donald Trump because they do question his temperament. They do question whether he has the personal skills to be the commander in chief.

BARTIROMO: But even supporters of Donald Trump would say, you know what?  It's not necessarily the man only. It's the movement. People want to see a break-up of what has been in place for a long time. And they see that as corruption.

LUNTZ: You're so correct. In fact, you hit it. Those are exactly what they would say. But here's what they didn't say -- when Donald Trump talks too much about himself and not enough about changing, breaking up Washington and starting from the beginning.


LUNTZ: Trump needs to change his tone in the next 24 days.

BARTIROMO: Well, we'll see if he can do it Wednesday night.

Frank, always a pleasure. Thank you.

LUNTZ: Pleasure, thanks.

BARTIROMO: We'll see you soon. Frank Luntz.

So, what is the relationship now with Donald Trump and the GOP? Will it change in the coming weeks? Up next, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich will join me as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures." We'll be right back.


BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

Growing tensions between Donald Trump and the Republican Party in the final weeks of the presidential campaign. Three weeks to go. House Speaker Paul Ryan who's had his differences with Trump now being pressured to embrace a new strategy -- simply ignore Trump.

Newt Gingrich is a former speaker of the House and he has a new novel out this week, a thriller entitled "Treason."

Newt, it's wonderful to have you back. It's good to see you.

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It's good to be with you, as always.

BARTIROMO: So, you know, Mr. Speaker, I want to ask you, last week, we spoke when we were on the Fox Business Network together on the morning show last week, and you said to me, and this interview got a lot of pickup -- there is little Trump and there is big Trump. And little Trump is pathetic.

Who will we see Wednesday night?

GINGRICH: I think you'll probably see big Trump. I think when he's disciplined as he was last Sunday night, he's very, very formidable. I think that he will probably rise to the occasion.

I think he gets out there, frankly, with the crowds and the crowds get all excited and he gets all excited, and then he goes off script and says something that would be fine if he wasn't running for president. But it makes no sense if he's running for president. And so, I think you have to really draw a distinction.

I keep hoping that he'll decide that he's going to grow into being 100 percent big Trump. Right now, he's about 80/20 or 85/15.

And that last piece of the old private sector I can say smart alecy things really undermines his candidacy. The number one reason he's not beating Hillary by 10 or 15 points is this particular part of his personality has not matured into being what we want in a president.

BARTIROMO: I think, you know, his supporters just blow it off because they know he's not a politician.


BARTIROMO: And they prefer having a non-politician rather than the same old corruption is what -- is how they see it.

GINGRICH: Sure, and here's the challenge, Maria. He's already got a tremendous base. When ABC just came out with a poll that said after an entire week of media smears, the total change was 2 percent points. You I think just had a poll that shows he's ahead slightly in Ohio despite everything that the news media did to smear him.

So, there's a lot of -- there's a very powerful base there. His challenge is, there's another 10 percent or 15 percent that would be available. I mean, he really would grow as Reagan did in the last weeks of the campaign.  Reagan moved suddenly and ended up beating Jimmy Carter by the largest Electoral College defeat of any incumbent in American history. That all happened in the last four or five days of the campaign.

To get to that point, Trump has to appeal to the next block of people.  He's not going to lose 39, 40, 41 percent of the country. They're with him. They loathe Hillary Clinton. They believe she's totally dishonest.  They believe any comment about sexuality when Bill Clinton is around is totally hypocritical. So, they're not reachable by the news media.

But the news media is trying desperately to convince the next 10 percent or 15 percent that Trump is unacceptable. My good friend wrote a piece on a news media coup d'etat which is really worth reading because last Friday, a week ago --


GINGRICH: -- the networks devoted 23 minutes to Donald Trump's tape and 57 seconds, all three combined, 57 seconds to the Wikipedia.


GINGRICH: You look at that bias, that's a deliberate effort by the establishment to undo the work of 14 million Republicans who nominated Donald Trump.

BARTIROMO: Yes. Well, I mean, you make such a great point. It's true.

You know, I was looking at the "Washington Post," I think it was the front cover on Friday. And every story was -- or virtually every story was a negative story about Trump. Not one story about the WikiLeaks dump on Hillary Clinton on the front cover of the "Washington Post." It actually is extraordinary what's happening with the mainstream media right now in terms of working for Hillary Clinton.

GINGRICH: I think it would be better off to describe it as left-wing propaganda. Skip the idea they relate to the news. The news is the excuse for them to bring up propaganda.


GINGRICH: "The Washington Post" this morning has an article, I don't know if it's an outlook or opinion section, has an article on the GOP after Trump's defeat. What kind of arrogance at a point when Trump is clearly within the margin of error in the ABC poll. What kind of arrogance.

BARTIROMO: You're right. I mean, they're just making the case, and figuring that's the -- they're going to write the script.

Let me ask you this because we have to get to the GOP unity or lack of unity. Mr. Speaker, what would happen if Paul Ryan were to turn around and go all in on Trump? What would happen if John Kasich were to turn around and go all in on Trump? And bring in their bases.

I mean, could they lose the election for Donald Trump?

GINGRICH: Yes. The election would be over. I mean, the fact is, the morning that somebody like Ryan, Kasich is a harder sell because he's off on his own, but Ryan is a serious institutional leader and he understands, and you'll notice the way he's been doing this, he understands that beating Hillary Clinton is essential to the future health of the United States because she's the most corrupt candidate we have ever nominated for a major office.

So, he understands he has to beat Hillary, but what he doesn't want his members to do is get I embroiled in trying to defend what Trump's latest goofy comment is. He's trying to walk a line of saying to them, look, be against Hillary, pick up everything Hillary is doing that's wrong.

He himself came out this week with a very strong attack on the Clinton people against their anti-Catholic bigotry. And so, you're going to see him do that, but he doesn't want his numbers to be sucked in to the local reporter running in with whatever Trump said this afternoon and spending their time on that because that may cost them moderate voters.

Now, I do think if you look at the ABC poll, the margin of difference in part is that Hillary's got about 8 percent more Democrats for her than Trump has Republicans. If you could have a Kasich, if you could have a Ryan in the last ten days coming in and saying, OK, look, every Republican has to vote for Donald Trump, I think that would in fact guarantee a Trump victory. And, frankly, I think he's likely to win anyway.

BARTIROMO: I mean, I just wonder if they understand that if Donald Trump doesn't win, people are going to remember that they had a chance, they had a window to actually help and they didn't. I think people are going to remember that, and they're going to be mad.

Real quick, Newt, before you go, the WikiLeaks, the dump on Hillary Clinton's e-mails. John Podesta's e-mails. What do you think was most onerous? What was the worst out of the WikiLeaks? This stuff is getting buried by other stuff. And I want to make sure you tell us your standpoint what you think is worst?

GINGRICH: Very quickly, two different things. One was her secret speech to the Brazilian bankers for $225,000 where she says her dream, this is her word, her dream is of a western hemisphere without borders. That's 600 million people who could come to the United States.

She has no idea what that means. It means MS-13 gangs from El Salvador, Mexican drug dealers, Colombian cocaine deals. It means, for example, people in Haiti, where they have a $3 a day minimum wage suddenly saying, gee, I could go to Miami and get $15 an hour.


GINGRICH: I mean, it would be unbelievable. The second one, though, I just saw this morning. There's an article which alleges in the WikiLeaks, the undersecretary of state attempted to bribe the FBI with additional posts overseas if they would cover up the classification of the e-mails.  If that's true, that is a felony, and he should be prosecuted immediately.

BARTIROMO: That's incredible.

Newt Gingrich, always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

GINGRICH: Good to see you.

BARTIROMO: We so appreciate your time.

Newt Gingrich joining us.

Let's get a look at what's coming up on "MediaBuzz" top of the hour.  Here's Howie Kurtz. Good morning, Howie.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": Good morning, Maria.

Well, look at what Newt just pointed out. He used the phrase "coup d'etat" to refer to the media coverage, relentless coverage of the women accusing Donald Trump of sexual misconduct. Are these stories fair? The women are on the record. Or is this an attempt to tilt the election and as you pointed out, totally overshadowing the WikiLeaks dump on Hillary Clinton and her campaign and the internal mails?

Plus, we got Mark McKinnon from The Circus talking about his show and how the campaign has become kind of a circus with so much focus on the personal as opposed to issues.

BARTIROMO: Wow, the Circus, how apropos.

Howie, we'll see you in about 20 minutes.

KURTZ: Thanks.

BARTIROMO: Thank you so much.

More on the brand-new Fox polls out showing a tightening race this morning.

Plus, health care for our veterans. Are they getting the treatment they deserve? We're going to take a look.

Former secretary of the V.A. as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures".  Back in a minute.


BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

More money is flowing to the veterans affairs hospital in Phoenix, which became the center of a major scandal after it was revealed dozens, perhaps more than 200 vet had died while waiting for care.

Joining me right now is Jim Nicholson, former secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs and former chairman of the Republican National Committee.

Sir, good to have you on the program. Thanks so much for joining us.


BARTIROMO: First, tell me what is wrong with the veterans affairs? Why so many complaints and bad treatment of our vets?

NICHOLSON: Basically, there are major structural flaws at the V.A. The head of the V.A. is the CEO of the biggest health care provider in the United States. He has a tremendous amount of responsibility, and he doesn't have the authority.

I'd like to use a parallel of say the Army. Take the chief of staff of the Army. As an Army deployed out there to serve our country and defend us, as the V.A. secretary is there to serve our veterans. If the chief of staff has an installation that isn't functioning, he can relieve that commander, and he can go to another base that has a very good commander and transfer him there to take over that command. The V.A. secretary cannot do that.

Look at Phoenix. They have had seven directors of that hospital, I think, in the last two years. And the most recent choice is some person that was fired from her job at the St. Louis hospital, then exiled to a clinic in the Philippines who has been brought back to command that hospital in Phoenix, which has been beset with so many problems.

Now, you've got to know that the secretary of the V.A. is a good man.


NICHOLSON: He understands the structural demands of that organization, but he is hamstrung by the Civil Service Commission and the unions. And he needs to have the authority that goes with his responsibility to go transfer people, to hire people from the outside who have that capability to come in and take over those V.A. medical centers.

BARTIROMO: Yes, I mean, it's --

NICHOLSON: The real regret over this, Maria, is that the veterans are suffering as a result of these organizational structural flaws.

BARTIROMO: Of course. I mean, it's similar to the school system whereas because of the unions, you could be the principal, but you can't act like a CEO in business would. I mean, a CEO in business wants to get the best players on the field. They want to put the best players, the most talented, hardest working people in the jobs.

But they -- but a CEO can do that, but the head of a school, the principal, can't. They can't take a teacher out. They can't put a new teacher in.  Same with the V.A. So, it's this bureaucracy?

NICHOLSON: It's a good parallel, very good parallel. And the teachers unions, they're not for the students. And the unions inside the V.A. are not for the veterans. They're for the employees.

BARTIROMO: Yes. Well, I think --

NICHOLSON: They had another case where they fired an employee recently, went to an arbitration, the union defended this person, what was lying and abused patients, and the union defended her.

BARTIROMO: Let me ask you this before we go. Item, I could talk to you all morning about this, and I so appreciate your insights and saying it real straight is exactly what the issue is. You are also the former chairman of the Republican National Committee. What do you say about what's going on right now with so many within the GOP not supporting their candidate, Donald Trump?

NICHOLSON: I'd say what I used to say when I was chairman, which is we have to hang together or we'll hang separately. Unity is a prerequisite in any election that the Republicans are competing in because we have an uphill battle. We have to be at our best, and we have to be united.

And I would say what Speaker Gingrich just said, is that these people who have legitimate problems, I think, sometimes with the rhetoric of Donald Trump -- I mean, he's kind of a macho maverick nonpolitician, but he loves our country. And he will make our country stronger. He will defend our borders.

He will defend life. He will see that we have lower taxes and more growth, and these people that are suffering from the sluggish economy --


NICHOLSON: -- will have new opportunities at jobs and invigoration. And he just brings a whole fresh perspective to our government, and he would, by the way, to the V.A. If he took a look at these organizational --


NICHOLSON: -- byzantine structures at the V.A., he would change those as quickly as he could. It will take -- it will take legislation to do that, but you can darn shoe bet that he'll be an advocate for our veterans.

BARTIROMO: Well, he's certainly promising that. You're absolutely.

Jim, good to see you. Thanks so much for stopping by this morning. We appreciate your time.

NICHOLSON: You bet. Thanks.

BARTIROMO: We'll see you soon.

New polls, more Wikileaks e-mails, the final debate. Our panel is next.


BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

Let me bring in the panel, Ed Rollins, former campaign manager for the Reagan-Bush ticket in 1984, the chief strategist for a Trump super PAC.  Jessica Tarlov, a Democratic pollster and strategist and a senior political analyst for Schoen Consulting. And Steve Moore, Trump economic adviser and Fox News contributor.

Good to have you, guys.


BARTIROMO: We know what the topics will be on Wednesday night's debate.  What are you expecting?

ROLLINS: Trump throughout this campaign has said, any time I want to be presidential, I can be presidential. If there's ever a night he needs to be presidential, it's this coming week. He's got one more shot. The American public is going to look at him. He's behind in mass majority of polls. He has to basically get a second look and he has to act responsibly and tell the country where he's going to take it.

BARTIROMO: Steve Moore, you have been speaking to him. Is he going to do it?

STEVE MOORE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: By the way, Ed and I were talking off camera. He's saying he doesn't know if Trump can pull this out.

But if the Cubs can score four runs in the bottom of the ninth, anything is possible. Yes, look, he's going to talk about the fact that incomes are falling, new Census Bureau came out just last week that they're down. He has to hit her when the entitlement issue comes up. He's got to talk about Obamacare and how much people are suffering financially from that. I mean, I know our family, $3,000 increase in our deductibles and premiums. That's happening all over the country.

BARTIROMO: Everybody is feeling it, Jessica, and the entitlement issue hasn't come up this entire election.


BARTIROMO: How extraordinary is that?

TARLOV: It's extraordinary, especially since the American people think it's a big deal. It's not a joke. So, yes, I'd like to see them talk about that.

And I think the difficulty there for Donald Trump, he doesn't have a traditional Republican position on this because he doesn't want to reform entitlements. So, they're going to stand there and say, OK, she says, I want to expand Social Security and he's going to say, OK.

MOORE: Obamacare is the entitlement issue right now really. It's huge for people.

TARLOV: But I don't think that it is. I mean, first of all, health care costs are rising slower than they did in the ten years before Obamacare was implemented. It needs to be reformed and Hillary Clinton speaks about that quite regularly. And he's going to say she wants single payer.

BARTIROMO: She said she wants to build on it, but then her husband says it's the craziest system I've ever seen.

TARLOV: Yes. Well, he said that for people who aren't qualifying for subsidies. So --

MOORE: You also have to get growth up. If you're going to get the debt down, you've got to get -- 1.5 percent economic growth, you just cannot reduce the debt. We've got to get back to 4 percent growth. Trump has a plan to do it.

ROLLINS: The irony -- Trump had a much better plan. He hasn't talked about it. That's the key thing. This week, the last time he's going to get a good look. The race will be over if he doesn't do well this week.

BARTIROMO: But doesn't he walk on the stage already on defense because of the last couple of week?

ROLLINS: I think he needs to get off defense. I think at the end of the day, he basically says, I didn't do these things. Let's just move on.  Let's talk about --

TARLOV: Well, I don't know if that's going to work. I mean, one of the questions is about fitness to be president. And she's leading in every single category that speaks to fitness. You know, competency, experience, temperament, 77 percent of Americans say he's not a good role model. And - -

MOORE: Jessica, when she says he's not temperamentally fit to be president, he has to retaliate and say, you're not ethically fit to be president.

TARLOV: And people might laugh at him again.

BARTIROMO: It's incredible.

TARLOV: Yes, it is totally incredible.

ROLLINS: But she still has lousy numbers. I mean, she may be leading in all the polls, but she has lousy numbers.

BARTIROMO: People don't trust her.

ROLLINS: Don't trust her.

BARTIROMO: Great panel. Steve Moore, Jessica Tarlov, Ed Rollins, thank you.

I'll be live in Las Vegas on Wednesday and Thursday covering the final debate for the Fox Business Network. Hope you'll join me next week as we navigate pre- and post-debate analysis.

Stay with Fox News right now. "Media Buzz" begins with Howie Kurtz, up next.

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