Former Starbucks CEO considers running in 2020 as an independent

close

Video

Former Starbucks CEO considers running in 2020 as an independent

Ex-CEO Howard Schultz considers joining the growing list of 2020 presidential hopefuls; reaction from former White House press secretary Sean Spicer.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," January 28, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Fox News Alert, as we come in here tonight, breaking news out of Houston, Texas. The latest word that we are just getting is that, at least, three police officers have been shot according to law enforcement officials. Not much known yet about the circumstances here.

A lot of people on the ground as you can see, where there are reports that one suspect is dead as officers search for others. We're going to continue to bring you breaking news on this throughout the hour.

And with that, good evening, everybody. And thanks for joining us tonight.  I'm Martha MacCallum. The other big story that we are following tonight.  As we take a look --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS, D-CALIF.: Who are we as Americans? So, let's answer that question to the world and each other right here and right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That is the question, who are we as Americans? That is what all of this is going to come down to. Capitalist nation offering the chance at economic success and one that allows markets to dictate winners and losers. A nation that has secure borders, or are we trending towards elements of socialism? Government-run health care for all, guaranteed income perhaps. Free college for all. These are the big questions. This battlefield is clearly being drawn in these early stages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And we will deliver that right with Medicare for all. And we will guarantee that right with universal pre-k and debt-free college.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I'm going to have to pay two percent a year of that amount over $50 million.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, the man who made billions bringing you $5 coffee and a place to hang out all day, says Harris and Warren have it all wrong. He says he may run as an Independent because he thinks that Democrats are not working on behalf of the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD SCHULTZ, FORMER CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, STARBUCKS: I will run as a centrist independent, outside of the two-party system. We're living at a most-fragile time. Not only the fact that this president is not qualified to be the president, but the fact that both parties are consistently not dealing what's necessary on behalf of the American people, and are engaged every single day in revenge politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Revenge politics. So, this could get interesting. Another billionaire, Mike Bloomberg, who has said that he run -- could run, and would run as a Democrat, pounce quickly said, "There's no way an Independent can win. In 2020, the great likelihood is that an Independent would just split the anti-Trump vote and end up reelecting this president."

Joining me now, former White House press secretary and America First Action senior advisor, Sean Spicer. Sean, good to see you tonight.

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: Lots of people in the pool. We're talking about getting in the pool, on the Democratic side. Your reaction to this Howard Schultz news first.

SPICER: Well, you know I'm a Dunkin; Donuts kind of guy. But for once, I'm actually excited. I'm excited for some out something from Starbucks.  If he gets in, it's it would be very helpful. I think it's not -- look, not all Independents are created equal. And despite the clip that you played about him trying to portray himself as a centrist, he's been a huge supporter of liberal causes for decades.

That's fine. He supported Hillary Clinton. That's fine, I mean, I -- this what makes the country great. But you can't then turn it around and start to call yourself a centrist up the middle.

So, him, getting in would definitely be helpful to us as Republicans because no matter what he wants to call himself, he has a long record -- track record of supporting progressive causes and candidates that would really help us. So, I'm -- I am as of this moment going to become a big Starbucks man.

MACCALLUM: Well, you know, I'm sure he'll be thrilled about that. He said that you know, there's 40 percent of Democrats in this country. The numbers really look like 39 percent Independent about that. 34 percent Democrat, 25 percent Republicans. So, I mean, it's pretty clear that, that Independents have grown and people having a party affiliation has shrunk a bit in recent years. Does that create a different dynamic?

SPICER: No, and again, two things that I need to go back on. One is, as I said, all Independents aren't created equal. You've got folks on the right and folks on the left that come in and just don't align with a party. That doesn't necessarily make them all the same, right?

So, in this case, he's coming into this race basically as a progressive Democrat that just doesn't want to go through their system. I understand that, but that's, that's who he is. That's vastly different from say, another candidate who might get in from a business background that's been more on the right, which would take away.

For instance, in 92, you had pro that I think pretty much skewed a little bit more to the right in terms of who he took from than the left. In this case, I definitely think he would take a lot more front from the Democrats and help the Republicans.

But the second thing that I think is also missing in this is that when you look at the numbers very raw, as you did, which is how many people are registered? It looks -- it looks like Independents are up there. But when you actually break down Independents, which is something that we did extensively at the RNC.

We've assigned a voter score to every single voter. You find that there's a lot of people who may not want to call themselves a Republican or a Democrat, but they have voted pretty much their lifetime as a Republican or a Democrat, they just don't like the label.

So, when you really drill down on most voters, they may not want to call themselves or align with a particular party. But they are truly not Independents that gets weight its election. Generally speaking, they align with a party the majority of time.

MACCALLUM: All right, so to this question about, "Who are we?" that Kamala Harris' posed, David Frum writes this about how Democrats win in the Atlantic.

He said, "You want the candidate with the broadest possible appeal, not the most sectarian. Trump will be beaten not by his fiercest enemies, but by his softest supporters. You want to appeal to them, detach them. Not chatter on social media about how you'd like to punch their kids in the face."

Well, the reference to the Covington High School story there. What do you think about that?

SPICER: I'm not a big fan of David Frum, but he's kind of right. Look, the Democrats did really well last cycle. You got to give it to them. But if you look at where they won in these Trump districts, in my state of Virginia, they picked up a handful of seats.

And it was those folks that ran to the middle that talked about areas where they could be more fiscally conservative that talked about national security. Then, we're able to make a competitive case against the Republican incumbent in many -- in many instances. That's where I think they win.

And the funny part is that they succeeded throughout so many House districts by running that strategy, and yet, the lesson that many of their presidential candidates are taking is instead of going more to the center and talking exactly like that, they're pivoting to the left and going to the extreme. So, it's ironic that they actually did well this past election in so many areas of the country.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But that's -- I think that --

SPICER: Though a centrist message, and then tuck to the left immediately after.

MACCALLUM: Well, I mean that -- that's THE STORY of primaries, essentially. But when you take a look at what Schultz is saying, and I don't know, you know, time will tell and voters will decide if he's that person I think anybody who would run as sort of a third party candidate would have to be so charismatic and have such a strong identity that they were able to potentially do that.

But what he's saying is look, these folks are way too far to the left. And these folks who are on the right who aren't satisfied with President Trump are potentially people that you could peel off as Frum says, the softest supporters. So he is looking to build a constituency in that crowd.

SPICER: Correct. And I think that there is -- there is -- I don't dismiss independent candidates, it's doing well. Although, we haven't really seen one since John Anderson and Ross Perot. I mean, they kind of happen every decade or so.

But the reality is I'm not one of these people that like Mike Bloomberg and everyone who dismisses them out of hand in terms of their ability to potentially win.

Look, Donald Trump, best in 17 amazing candidates, blew through the system when no one gave him a chance. So, we are living in a world now where there are larger-than-life personalities that can do stuff.

Schultz's background as a successful CEO, definitely, and he's got -- you know, billions of dollars. So, he can self-finance this thing. I don't think -- I think, he is a credible candidate. Don't get me wrong. I just think that his past history of doing this doesn't allow him to go after that right-leaning folks.

They might -- he might be charismatic. But at the end of the day, they're going to say you're a progressive.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I don't know -- yes, I mean that, that remains to be seen whether or not he really connects with people. Quick thought on Kamala Harris. You know, when people think of crowd size, they sometimes think of you, Sean. And she had 20,000 people out there. Pretty impressive showing. She was in Oakland. You know she was in her home territory.  What do you -- what do you make of that in and of itself as a data point?

SPICER: Well, look, I mean, I hate to say this, but it was a big crowd, right?

MACCALLUM: It was a big crowd.

SPICER: She -- it was a really big crowd, and I give her credit. There are people that are exciting. She is some who -- there is no question, people are enthusiastic about on the left. And I -- and she has done a great job of energizing those folks. That speaks volumes.

When you look, and you mentioned it earlier. I mean, this is like they're going from the Olympic sized pool to -- I don't know what because you've gotten now 30-40 plus candidates that are jumping in.

For her to have that degree of enthusiasm, I think portends well for her.  And I think people are excited about her. She's clearly tapped into something. So, as these other candidates on the left, look at what they're going to do to announce or be different than whatever.

Now, they've got to realize that she's kind of set the bar for other candidates going forward. But she's done so -- she's -- she shown that you got to have that combination of charisma, excitement, commitment to the extreme left.

MACCALLUM: She has generated that to be sure, and I think you're right. A lot of -- some other candidates might take a look at her and say, well, maybe I'll wait if you while -- I'll wait awhile and see if something happens, if she flames out or where this goes. Sean, thank you. Good to see you as always. Thanks for being here tonight.

SPICER: You bet, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Here now, Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at the Federalist and Fox News contributor. And Evan Bayh, a former Democratic senator from Indiana and former governor of Indiana. Let me start with you, Senator Bayh, first, if I may. What do you make of this -- you know, this sort of centrist movement that Howard Schultz is trying to put together? And how far to the left a lot of the Democratic candidates seem to be swaying?

EVAN BAYH, FORMER SENATOR: Well, a couple of things, Martha, I do think it tends to be the middle where elections are won and lost. And I think many Americans out there are now crying for practical problem- solving rather than ideology left, left or right. They want people who will actually move the country forward in practical terms.

But in the primaries, particularly presidential primaries, a lot of the energy enthusiasm early on tends to be on the extremes of the two parties.  So, I'm a little worried about my own party -- you know, going too far left. I just still don't think even with the changes in the country that if we're perceived as being sort of a socialist pacifist party, that's the way to win a general election.

And so, I'm hopeful that at the end of the day, the Democrats will come down to a choice there will be a candidate to the left, no question about it. But there might be a more centrist alternative, progressive, but not too progressive that would be more electable in the fall.

MACCALLUM: Molly, what do you think?

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: If you learn a lot about what's going on in each party by how they reacted to the news about Howard Schultz, in the Republican Party not a lot of concern. And I think that's partly because, despite the media caricature of Trump as some extremist or radical, he actually has pretty centrist policies that were appealing to a lot of people who were formerly voting democratic or more independent.

On the Democratic side, there was a basically a freak out when he announced that he was thinking about running. Because the party is having this issue of being so far to the left or being needing to be so far to the left to win a Democratic primary that it can alienate other voters.

But that shows how Schultz can serve a function by running. If he -- if by being a centrist out there who's an attractive option for people who aren't as radical as the base of the Democratic Party, it might serve the function of pulling the Democratic Party a little bit more moderate from its radical direction that it's going right now.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, you know, it is shocking in many ways I think just -- you know, covering politics for all these years, and looking at it.  When you -- when you look at the candidates talk what they're talking about, Senator Bayh, what -- you know, in terms of socialism, in terms of the 70 percent taxes on the wealthy, you know, all of these ideas which are generating so much heat right now.

And then, you look at someone like a Joe Biden who watches all of this and thinks about getting in this race, what do you think about that?

BAYH: Well, I think there's a -- there's as going to be a space in the Democratic Party for a Joe Biden, for Michael Bloomberg, for a more centrist pragmatic problem-solving type candidate. You'll have 10 or more candidates appealing to that far left element.

And they'll get a lot of the headlines because of some of these proposals are -- you know, a little bit out there. But at the end of the day, I think a lot of Democratic voters are going to come back to OK that maybe -- you know, dreamland. But we got to get real here. Who could not only win this election? But at the end of the day, who can govern?

I'm still hopeful if that's how things will work out. But Martha, you know, a fair amount if you're a Democrat, a fair amount of caution is an order twice in my lifetime my party has carried one state in a presidential election. So, there is that capacity sometimes for the Democrats to just get too far out of the mainstream.

MACCALLUM: Thank you both. Mollie and Senator Bayh, good to see you both.  Thanks for being here tonight.

HEMINGWAY: Thank you.

BAYH: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, a Fox News Alert as we get a look tonight live here at Houston, Texas where there are reports of, at least, four police officers in a horrific shooting, and possibly more. We're going to get a statement from the Texas governor, Greg Abbott, when we come back.

Plus, now that the government is back open, can Republicans really expect Democrats to come through on their end of the deal, an immigration compromise which has been discussed that the president could sign?

One of those Democrats who has suggested that there's room for compromise joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Live shot of Houston, Texas as we come back here. We are following this story very closely. This is the hospital where five officers are confirmed to have been struck and transported according to the statement from law enforcement there this evening.

According to this statement from Governor Abbott, a horrific attack on our police officers is a solemn reminder of the service and sacrifice our brave men and women in law enforcement make every day to keep us safe. The city of Houston and the Houston Police Department will have whatever state resources they need to bring swift justice to those involved.

So five officers wounded and we will continue to give you updates on that throughout the course of THE STORY tonight.

So who is winning the shutdown in border wall battle that now has three weeks to be determined and decided before a potential next shutdown? We've got some brand-new polls from Public Opinion Strategies which was commissioned by Brad Parscale the President's 2020 campaign manager. They spoke to 800 voters in ten districts that Trump won but are currently held by Democrats in Congress.

They found that more voters than not approved of the President's job performance. 54 percent supporting his policies, 61 percent of them supporting his position on border security, 53 percent say they want to build a wall. These numbers are different, you know, than the national numbers that we see but this is a drill down on these ten districts that are Democrats which Trump won in 2016.

So the average approval score for Democrats in Congress in these districts ranged between 20 and 35 percent. Half of them thought that Democrats should have taken the President's deal exchanging DACA for border wall funding. California Congresswoman Katie Hill is a Democrat and member of the House Oversight Committee. She was also elected to be the freshman co- representative to leadership. Congresswoman, good to see you today. Thank you very much for being here.

REP. KATIE HILL, D-CALIF.: Good to see you too. Thank you for having me.

MACCALLUM: So you're in a district that -- you beat an incumbent Republican in your district. The district was one that was won by Hillary Clinton but it's a district that you know, has vacillated between Republicans and Democrats. You came out with this tweet a few days back.  I'm excited and ready to find common ground on comprehensive border security and immigration reform. None of that could have happened while Americans weren't getting paid. It's the right call. Let's get back to work. So what compromise would you like to see in the next few weeks?

HILL: Well, I think what we've already seen laid out is really prioritizing border security. We know that there are a lot of different ways that we can do that including investments in technology, and in scanners, and in really fortifying ports of entry and some barriers are going to be part of that as well. So I think we've got this great group of appropriators who are meeting in conference.

I think their first meeting is on Wednesday to really drill down and from everything I know that if you if you let appropriators do their work, then they're going to come to a good deal so I'm excited to see how that plays out.

MACCALLUM: I mean, I know you supported Nancy Pelosi but she has said you know, she would give a dollar for border security at this point. Are Democrats like you feeling like she's not in sync where you need to be with your districts?

HILL: Well, she's never said she won't give a dollar for border security, she said she won't give a dollar for the wall. And I think all of us just collectively have kind of abandoned the notion of a 2,000 mile long concrete barrier so --

MACCALLUM: Well, that put you right at the same boat with the president because he -- that's not what he's asking for either.

HILL: Right.

MACCALLUM: And as I said, you know, last time we spoke, it sounds like you're very lined up. You know, places that need to be shored up need to have a wall, a barrier yes?

HILL: I would say a barrier. Again, I think we should look at more technological --

MACCALLUM: It's like -- it's like Voldemort, it's like the word that cannot be said.

HILL: I know. I know that's frustrating.

MACCALLUM: I mean, basically it's something that stops people from getting across, correct?

HILL: Yes, correct. And I think -- I think that honestly there is a lot more common ground than most people realize because you know, there has been this whole battle, right, over the semantics around a wall and over you know, the shutdown in general.

But I really believe that we're going to have something that we can come to a great deal of agreement on. I just think that it's going to be a matter of making sure that we will all kind of agree that this is going to be a compromise, right? So --

MACCALLUM: Yes. And so everybody will sort of happily file into the White House for a big signing ceremony and they'll be border security in America.

HILL: There will definitely be border security. I guess we'll see how the tone kind of shifts over the next couple of weeks. I would be so thrilled if we could all file in to a happy signing, but you know, I think that's -- there's a lot of factors at play there.

MACCALLUM: Congresswoman Hill, thank you very much. Good to have you with us.

HILL: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: All right, joining me now Charlie Hurt, the Washington Times Opinion Editor, and Fox News Contributor. Charlie, thank you for being here. I want your thoughts on what you saw in this new set of polls. As I said they were commissioned by Trump 2020 by Brad Parscale, the campaign manager but they were done by a couple of pollsters who worked for Bush and who worked for Mitt Romney, an outside group. What do you make of these numbers?

CHARLIE HURT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that the most important numbers are the ones that you pointed out showing that you know, that there's a you know, a solid ten-point advantage that President Trump has in terms of wanting to build some sort of physical barrier.

And -- but the thing that must be even more troubling for Democrats or at least Democratic leadership in the House is the fact that when you drill down and you realize the more that voters learn about the proposals that President Trump is putting forward, the more they like it. And the reason these districts are so vitally important is because as you point out these are districts that Trump -- Donald -- President Trump won but are now represented by Democrats in the House.

And you know, as you know, the House is designed to be the closest body to the people. Those people representing those districts, they don't have the luxury that Nancy Pelosi and leadership in the House of Representatives have for getting into these partisan fights over stuff. What matter is the sensible stuff and the sensible argument that's been made over the last several months about this is all about border security. And Donald Trump is the one who's forced that issue to the forefront.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, we heard a lot from these national polls about how the whole shutdown was bad for President Trump and it was good for Nancy Pelosi. And on a national level when they look at those polls, that may be true. But when you drill down on these messages as you say, which are probably one of the most interesting things here, that the move towards President Trump was from 27 to 33 after the messaging came across that the border will improve security.

During that same time, that same messaging sent Nancy Pelosi down four points from 28 to 24. Quick last thought here, Charlie.

HURT: Yes. And of course, it's not just in these districts. If you take the partisanship and all of the squalling back and forth that we hear, you know, in terms of politics, if you take that out, I think that those policies that President Trump was talking about with building some kind of barrier, securing the border, the popularity of that cuts across Democrat, Republican, it's -- those are very generally popular positions and that's why Donald Trump not only won the Republican primary but then went on to win the general election in 2016.

MACCALLUM: Well, and Congresswoman Katy Hill sounds like she's on board with something like this too.

HURT: Yes.

MACCALLUM: So we'll see where we get in the next few weeks. Charlie, thank you. Good to see you.

HURT: Thank you, Martha. Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: So we are getting word on the condition of those five officers shot in Houston. We're going to bring you an update as soon as we come back. Also tonight, Gregg Jarrett on the biggest thing that people are missing in the news that happened on Friday with Roger Stone. He wrote the book. He's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: In Roger Stone's case the charges of that indictment have literally nothing to do with the president and have to do with his communications with Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Sarah Huckabee Sanders today insisting that Roger Stone's arrest is not indicative of any wrongdoing involving the president. Trump's former political advisor was arrested Friday on charges of obstruction and lying to Congress and witness tampering.

Some, including my next guest, argued that those very charges are proof that there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. Gregg Jarrett is Fox News legal and political analyst and author of the New York Times bestseller, "The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump."

So, obviously, you have covered this very, very closely from the very beginning.

GREGG JARRETT, FOX NEWS LEGAL & POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

MACCALLUM: It's good to have you here tonight. First of all, so the acting A.G. Mark Whitaker --

JARRETT: Right.

MACCALLUM: -- says that he believes that they are almost done. Why is he saying that?

JARRETT: Well, I think that's about right because look at the nature of the most recent indictments, Roger Stone for a processed crime. It is proof yet again that there is no known evidence of Trump-Russian collusion.

This is a process crime that is an offense against Mueller essentially, an offense against his investigation. If he had some evidence of Trump-Russia collusion if Stone was conspiring with WikiLeaks or Julian Assange or the Russians, he would have been charged and so with others but he didn't do that.

MACCALLUM: But Judge Napolitano spoke with Roger Stone. He's been talking to a lot of people --

JARRETT: Yes.

MACCALLUM: -- over the course of this weekend, he may get a gag order when he goes to the arraignment on Tuesday, we will see. But he basically said that he would consider, you know, talking to Mueller's lawyers, having his lawyers talk to Mueller's lawyers.

JARRETT: Right.

MACCALLUM: And a lot, that got a lot of attention. That, you know, here he goes, he's about to flip.

JARRETT: No.

MACCALLUM: Is that what you see?

JARRETT: No, not at all. That's what you always say, sure, we'll talk, but I don't see Roger Stone going the way of George Papadopoulos or Michael Flynn who finally threw in the towel and copped a plea.

Stone is a different kind of an animal and he should take this to trial because a false statement charge is exceedingly difficult for prosecution to prove because the statute said the false statement has to be knowingly and willfully made. That's almost impossible to prove a faulty recollection or if your recollection of something is different than the way Mueller interprets it, that's not a crime.

MACCALLUM: So, Andy McCarthy was saying that, you know, he thinks that the senior campaign official which some people are asking is that the president, or those direct conversations with the president, who directed, according to the indictment --

JARRETT: Right.

MACCALLUM: -- Roger Stone to contact WikiLeaks and see if they had anything --

JARRETT: Sure.

MACCALLUM: -- which Roger Stone says is politics and that's what happens all the time. Any McCarthy said that's proof, in his mind. You know, if the Trump campaign was in cahoots with the Russians and they were running a collusion operation together --

(CROSSTALK)

JARRETT: They wouldn't need Roger Stone.

MACCALLUM: -- they wouldn't need Roger Stone to be like go see if WikiLeaks knows anything because everybody at that point, as you and I well remember, covering this whole story, was hearing that something was going to drop --

(CROSSTALK)

JARRETT: Sure.

MACCALLUM: -- there was something coming --

JARRETT: Well, Assange --

MACCALLUM: -- something bad story on Hillary Clinton.

JARRETT: Julian Assange came out in June of 2016 and said he had damaging information on Hillary Clinton he was going to release in the form of --

MACCALLUM: Right.

JARRETT: -- e-mails and Roger Stone did exactly what hundreds of journalists were doing, myself included. I tried contacting Assange and WikiLeaks and others to gain for knowledge of what was contained in these things, so Andy is absolutely right. Roger Stone, if he made any mistake he sort of created the appearance that he knew more than he really did. A little bit of puffery.

MACCALLUM: And I think that -- you know, we'll see where this all goes. We'll see what Mueller's report says.

JARRETT: Right.

MACCALLUM: We'll see what they have. But I think that's one of the interesting lines here because it seems like, you know, he was on the campaign, he was pushed off the campaign --

JARRETT: Right.

MACCALLUM: -- you know, not working in the White House, wanted to have some goods.

JARRETT: A bigger role.

MACCALLUM: Right?

JARRETT: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Wanted to be able to say I think I have something, and then he said, I'm having dinner with Julian Assange. Now other people look at that discussion and say it's ridiculous of him to say that he was joking. He was not joking. He was meeting with Julian Assange. The other side of the coin is that he loves to blow himself up.

JARRETT: Of course. Let's assume he did have inside knowledge of what was contained in those stolen or hacked e-mails. That's not a crime. I could have had inside information on it and I could have published it and that's not a crime. I could've told everybody about it. Not a crime.

Only if you conspire to engage in the hacking itself or the stealing is that a crime and there is no allegation of that in this indictment. And if Mueller had it, he would have brought such an indictment. He doesn't have that. All he's got mostly are old tax fraud cases against Manafort and Rick Gates and processed crimes of gee, you are not telling the truth in my investigation. These are charges that are generated or created by Robert Mueller himself.

MACCALLUM: We will see. Gregg Jarrett, thank you very much.

JARRETT: My pleasure.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight. Thanks, Gregg.

So we are following the breaking news out of Houston tonight where there are reports of five officers who have been shot, an update on their condition from Houston coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Fox News alert, reports that five police officers shot tonight in Houston, Texas. Houston police say that all of them are with a local hospital, that is where the scene you are looking at now is taking place.

Trace Gallagher joins me now live from our West Coast newsroom with the unfolding details this evening. Good evening, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. We know Houston police were serving a narcotics warrant on at least one suspect in the southeast Houston area near the shipping channels and we know three suspects were inside the residence.

It's unclear how many open fired on police but a neighbor heard more than a dozen rounds fired and Houston P.D. has confirmed, as you said, that five officers have been shot. Some may have been undercover. Two of them are reportedly critical. No word on the conditions of the others but we saw video of one officer who was conscious being taken away on a gurney and at least one officer was taken away by a life flight helicopter, all of the injured police officers have been taken to Memorial Hermann Hospital, which is a level one trauma center.

As for the suspects, the numbers are still in flux. The mayor says one is confirmed down. There are reports one or two are dead and two others are still inside the residence. Their status has not been released.

And SWAT teams are now on scene, which is not necessarily an indication that a standoff is underway but there are numerous reports that at least one suspect has barricaded inside and a neighbor just called into a local TV station saying that he can hear police trying to negotiate with people inside.

The police presence, as you imagine, is immense. We are talking Houston P.D., the Harris County Sheriff's Department and the Department of Public Safety and Texas Governor Greg Abbott is allocating any needed resources.

Clearly, you can see from the video the scene remains active and very dangerous. We will continue to bring you breaking news updates as we get more. Five Houston police officers shot, two of them right now critical. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Terrible night. Trace, thank you very much. We'll go back there.

GALLAGHER: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next, NBC's Tom Brokaw says he is sorry for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BROKAW, ANCHOR, NBC: I also happen to believe that the Hispanics should work harder at assimilation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Geraldo Rivera coming up next on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROKAW: I also happen to believe that the Hispanics should work harder at the assimilation. That's one of the things I've been saying for a long time, you know. That they ought not to be just codified in their communities, but make sure that all of their kids are learning to speak English and that they feel comfortable in the communities and that's going to take outreach on both sides, frankly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Those remarks from Tom Brokaw yesterday on Meet the Press prompting a wave of backlash, mostly on Twitter, where you find the waves of backlash and an apology from Brokaw himself writing in a series of tweets, quote, "I feel terrible on my comments offended some Hispanics and members of that proud culture. I am sorry, truly sorry, my comments were offensive to many, the great enduring American diversity is to be celebrated and cherished."

Here now, Geraldo Rivera, Fox News correspondent at large and author of the memoir "The Geraldo Show." Geraldo, good evening. Good to have you with us tonight.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: Hi, Martha. Great to be here.

MACCALLUM: Hello there. So, great to see you too. You know, your reaction, there was a lot of incoming for him on Twitter, which is, you know, the way it is these days, but what did you think of his actual comment? Did it deserve the backlash that it got?

RIVERA: I think it probably did, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Why.

RIVERA: I think it was shockingly uninformed. According to Pew Research and all the others that study the 45 million Latinos in this country, they are assimilating at a rate that's faster than any other ethnic group in our history. The first crew in from whether Mexico or Central America or where from so ever, they come in and they are obviously Spanish language dominant.

The survey show that by the second generation however, the children are English-speaking dominant, the majority of them, and by the third generation they have to go to night school to learn Spanish and get a B because they don't speak Spanish anymore.

MACCALLUM: Well, you know, I think the point --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: You know, I don't know where Tom got that observation, for may be in front of the bodega on the upper west side of Manhattan.

MACCALLUM: Well, I don't -- maybe, I don't know. But I just want to show you what Brit Hume said because I think that one of the problems is that the discussion that you just -- you just had would have been a great discussion to have with him. It doesn't mean that he is racist or insensitive to other cultures --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: I don't think he's racist.

MACCALLUM: You know, that's where it instantly goes. Here's what Brit said. "Sorry to see Tom Brokaw catching hell for saying that Hispanics need to do a better job of assimilating, this proves that any criticism of any non-white ethnic group is automatically considered racist and shows how the national consensus against racism has been weaponized."

RIVERA: I certainly appreciate Brit's observation. But you have to be blind, Martha, not to look in Texas or in Florida or in California or indeed in New York and Chicago, in Orlando and not see a culture that is assimilating -- that is blending with the fabric of the American society in a way that is very traditional and has accelerated by the pervasiveness of the media.

Hispanics are becoming, you know, part and parcel of the nation in a way that is very, very impressive. They are adding to the gross national product. They are becoming Ph.D.'s, and so forth. And I think for Tom to make that statement, and I really don't think that it was made maliciously. I think it may have been based -- well, I can't be his shrink and tell you why he said it.

All I can say is that it's the kind of throwaway statement that offends a lot of people unnecessarily. While Brit is right and there's much too much defensiveness in these times when we're talking about a border wall --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes, you know --

RIVERA: -- when we're talking about relations with our hemispheric neighbors.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: And I think you make excellent --

RIVERA: You know, you got to be sensitive.

MACCALLUM: -- you make excellent points base in fact about the assimilation of Hispanics in this country and it certainly feel -- and it certainly feels that way and we watched generations of people come from Ireland, from Italy, and it takes time and the generations overtime assimilate. Perhaps there are some other groups that maybe you could say this about more accurately at this point, but that wasn't what the conversation was about. It was about Hispanics in this country.

But I think the point is that, unfortunately, just the ability to have a conversation about the importance of assimilation ends up in this sort of, you know, backlash that forces him to go on with these mea culpas over and over again on Twitter which I think just said something kind of sad about where we are as a nation and our ability to have conversations.

RIVERA: I agree with that and the, you know, going to Twitter as your confessionary is a very difficult place, having been there myself. But I will say that Tom is -- he's a smart guy, he's a sharp guy. He's been around the block quite a few times.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

RIVERA: He knows that these things can trigger these many storms and it's unnecessary because the big story is that America absorbs these folks from the four corners. We take the best of them. You know, that hybrid vigor makes us a stronger nation. We emphasize the, you know, value of immigrants wheresoever they hail, you know. And I just want to be a cheerleader for that. I'm an old-style integrationist. I'm for integration. I want everyone to have an opportunity to live wherever they want to, work wherever they want to.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I think that's a very popular absolutely American notion.

RIVERA: And I think that that's the kind of message someone like the godfather Brokaw should be preaching.

MACCALLUM: I just want to show the bar in Cleveland, you know, just because I think it was an interesting moment, so Geraldo went to a bar to celebrate --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: You're talking about, Geraldo, let's go to the bar.

MACCALLUM: Exactly, right. So, to celebrate the end of the shutdown with a whole bunch of workers. Let's play some of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you pull that off?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: They rang the bell, we cheered, we had no idea the president or the news would leak before the president spoke on Friday that the shutdown was ending and all I wanted to do down at the Harbor Inn, the oldest dive bar in Cleveland from 1895, my hang out joint, I just wanted to show all the federal workers that their friends and neighbors cared about them in the midst of this gloomy shutdown last Friday before the news. It was very -- they had failed two Senate votes on Thursday. Everybody, you know.

So, we had folks from NASA there. We had the coast guardsmen there. We had, you know, people from all the different federal agencies that have been furloughed and unpaid for more than a month.

So, I thought it would be a nice thing to, you know, buy them a beer and tell them that we still love them and they support them and then the news came, you know, it's almost like the president was listening. He then announced the end of the shutdown. Of course, we have a three-week reprieve, we don't know where that ends, but hopefully, they'll figure something --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I'm sorry I wasn't there. I didn't know you are buying drinks for everybody. But next time you're there, please give them our best. It looks like a great place to hang out, the Harbor Inn in Cleveland.

Thank you very much, Geraldo. Good to see you tonight.

RIVERA: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: See you soon. So, Speaker Pelosi may be extending an invitation to President Trump, which she has done now, for the State of the Union, it's going to be February 5th. But a group of border patrol wives have an invitation for her and we're going to speak with two of these women coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF., HOUSE SPEAKER: Most of us, speaking for myself, consider the wall immoral, ineffective, expensive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Well, she has been skeptical to say the least about the idea of a wall on the southern border. And now the wives of some of the border patrol agents have invited Speaker Pelosi to see through their eyes what they see every day going on along the Rio Grande in the region where they live.

Jill Demanski, writing in an open letter on Facebook, quote, "It appears you are not busy today or any day until Tuesday when you will return from your four-day vacation. Since you see no threat here, I'm sure you can just make a quick flight down here alone. You don't even need to worry about those MS-13 gang members you'll see running across our border. Our guys and gals catch a lot of them."

Joining me now, Jill Demanski and Renea Perez. Jill and Rene, thank you very much for being here tonight. We saw your letter this morning and thought that it would be interesting to talk to you.

I mean, Jill, obviously there's, you know, a lot of attitude in that letter. What are you so unhappy about when it comes to Nancy Pelosi?

JILL DEMANSKI, WIFE OF BORDER PATROL AGENT: It was written very quickly and very passionately to share with some fellow wives. So, it was more just seeing some of the comments that she was making we felt like she was not interested in seeing what's actually going on here. And it's a very important part of this process to make a good decision on it. But she seemed very unwilling.

She makes a lot of statements for someone who hasn't actually been here to see what is going on. I think if she would come here, she could see for herself what's going on and make a decision.

MACCALLUM: You know, 162,000 apprehension at the border in your areas. The most active is the Rio Grande area, very difficult to put any kind of wall through there at all. And she did visit about two years ago, the McAllen area, spent some time with humanitarian assistance folks there.

But you wanted her to see it through the eyes of your husbands and the other people that you know who work on the border. What would you show her specifically, Renea, if you could?

RENEA PEREZ, WIFE OF BORDER PATROL AGENT: You know, I think it's great that she came here and that she went to visit where she did. But there's a big difference, and going on the line where the argument lies is the wall. It seems to be the point of intention for them.

And I would love for her to just even, just one day, one day ride with my husband, her husband and other agents, along with they are saying that it's necessary. That's what she really needs to do. And you know, I like to kind of weighing the balance of this decision.

So, I just want her to listen to them and maybe ride along where they are saying that it's necessary in the very high activity levels. And that's what we want, you know. We want her to see that.

MACCALLUM: You know, I think it's helpful for everybody to see both sides of THE STORY. And thank you very much for being here. Nancy Pelosi's office didn't respond. We ask if she was going to respond your invitation. But thanks, ladies. Good to have you here tonight.

DEMASKI: Thank you so much. All the best.

PEREZ: Thank you.

DEMASKI: Thank you for having us.

MACCALLUM: So today, a brand-new story podcast is hitting the podcast airwaves with Congressman Steve Scalise. I hope you'll listen and subscribe to "The Untold Story" or wherever you'll listen. We're going to see you back here tomorrow night at 7. 
 
Content and Programming Copyright 2019 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2019 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.