Former Obama economic adviser on Biden cabinet picks

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Former Obama economic adviser on Biden cabinet picks

Robert Wolf, former economic adviser to President Obama, joins ‘The Story with Martha MacCallum.’

This is a rush transcript from “The Story with Martha MacCallum" November 11, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Good evening to you, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum and this is THE STORY in New York. Today is Veterans Day, the day we honor all those who serve and those who gave their lives for our freedom and for the country that we love. 

Tonight, a bit later in the program, we will honor those heroes in a very special tribute that we hope you will watch along with us tonight. Today, mid-morning in the rain, President Trump went to Arlington National Cemetery with the first lady to take part in the ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. It was the first time we'd seen the president in a week as he continues his election fight. 

And as the Trump team hunkers down post-election, there is another very big story emerging as well. A colossal face-off for control of the United States Senate. This morning, Republican Senator Dan Sullivan secured his victory in Alaska, bringing the official count to 48 Democrats, 50 Republicans, two seats up for grabs in the Georgia race. 

This is what it all comes down to for the GOP, packing the court, adding states, ending the filibuster. It is now Georgia, Georgia, Georgia. A state where Joe Biden is currently ahead by about 14,000 votes in the presidential contest, a race that is so close that they plan to recount those ballots now county-by-county by hand. 

Moments from now, Louisiana Senator John Kennedy, who says what happens in Georgia is going to determine the future of the United States for the next four years. First up, Chief Congressional Correspondent Mike Emanuel breaks down what is at stake tonight. Hi, Mike. 

MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening. Both parties are expected to spend a fortune with the balance of power on the line on Senate runoffs in Georgia. Today, Florida Republican Senator Marco Rubio told voters there what's at stake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): If we don't control the United States Senate, that is the agenda that's going to be pushed because all the energy in that party, all the money in that party, all the people who get on the cover of magazines in that party are in favor of these radical things.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

EMANUEL: Voters in Georgia can expect to be bombarded with ads for the two Senate races. Republican Senator David Perdue is facing Democratic challenger Jon Ossoff, while Republican Senator Kelly Loeffler is taking on Democrat Raphael Warnock. Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer says, the big prize on Election Day was the White House, but still has hope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We are happy we've won the most important election that we face. We always said the number one election is of the president and we won. And when it comes to the Senate, it's not over at all. Georgia is close.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

EMANUEL: A Senate led by Mitch McConnell would force Democrats to cut deals since he would oversee confirmation of a cabinet, judges and bring up legislation for votes. If Schumer's the majority leader, that would help expedite the Democrat's agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (D-KY): The American people seem to have reacted to House Democrats radicalism and obstruction by shrinking the speaker's majority and electing more Republicans. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

EMANUEL: Experts know right before the election, McConnell had a new Supreme Court justice confirmed and shut down stimulus talks when the price tag was approaching $2 trillion, but that requires being in the majority, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Indeed, it does. Thank you very much, Mike Emanuel. Joining me now, Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana. Senator, good to have you with us, as always. Thanks for joining us tonight. So, what do you see at stake here in this Georgia race?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): In my opinion, Martha, this election in Georgia will be the most important in the history of ever, at least in terms of its ramifications on the country. If the Republicans lose the Senate majority and the Left of Lenin-wing of the Democratic Party gets in control as it will, controlling both the Senate and the House. 

As I said earlier today, you have nothing to worry about, unless you are a taxpayer, a business owner, a parent, a gun owner, a cop, a person of faith or an unborn baby. They will run America like they run Chicago. And they've been very upfront about that. Those are pretty high stakes. Now, we don't plan on losing, but it's all hands-on deck.

MACCALLUM: So, of course, the other side also feels that as much is at stake for them. Andrew Yang tweeting today that people should move to Georgia. That's what he's doing. Evelyn and I are moving to Georgia to help Ossoff and Reverend Warnock win, this is our only chance to clear Mitch out of the way and help Joe and Kamala get things done in the next four years. 

Tom Friedman of The New York Times also chimed in, saying that everybody who can, should move to Georgia. I believe you can - if you get there by December 5th, you can get a driver's license and you can set up shop and you can vote in that election, which is pretty extraordinary.

KENNEDY: Well, that's going to do a lot to instill confidence in our electoral system, which is already waning among half of the country. I really regret it. But half of our country right now thinks that we need to send Big Bird to some of these states to help them, teach them how to count, so they can count votes.

MACCALLUM: So, I want to - there's a lot of discussion, obviously, among the senators about the election and about the recounts and about the contesting in several states. Here's what Bernie Sanders just said a short time ago. And I want to get your response to Senator Sanders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT): The average Republican senator is not an idiot. 
They understand that Trump has lost. But one of the other things that we should all be nervous about and fearful about is the degree to which Trump intimidates and scares the hell out of Republican members of Congress. They are afraid to stand up to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

MACCALLUM: What do you say to that, Senator? 

KENNEDY: Senator Sanders is entitled to his opinion. I don't agree with him. I'm not frightened of President Trump. I tell him exactly what I think. But we've got to get this election business right. 

Millions and millions, Martha, of Americans are very skeptical about the vote counting process. Some of them think, as I said earlier, they think it was rigged, rigged as a carnival ring toss. And we need to let the president prosecute his claims of irregularity in a court of law and everybody else. That's why God made judges. Above all, we can put this thing to rest. 

If I could say one other thing. The problem is that mail voting, mail voting creates a whole host of problems than in-person voting. I mean, a lot more can go wrong. I'm not saying that people concerned about the Coronavirus shouldn't be able to mail a vote. But look, it's just how I look at it. If I won, the Powerball and I am going to mail my ticket in to collect the money or I'm not going to show up in-person. 

Now, I know what I'm going to do, and I know what most Americans are going to do. And let's face it, a lot of our states, we're not exactly a model of efficiency in terms of the way they administer this election. 

MACCALLUM: Some of them are still counting because of that. And obviously it's an extraordinary situation that we're in right now. Do you think that Republicans did a good enough job in terms of - did they discourage the president at times told people not to mail in their vote, that it was, that that wouldn't be the safe way to do it? Do you think that was a mistake maybe?

KENNEDY: Well, I don't know, hindsight is wonderful, but my position from the very beginning was that if people want to do a mail-in-ballot, that's their prerogative just so long as it's legal. But the problem is you had both sides, Republicans and Democrats have started trying to change the election rules. There was more Democrats and Republicans, and that looked fishy.

MACCALLUM: I mean, it's unbelievable how many different rules that are in every state--

KENNEDY: Look, what happened in Pennsylvania. 

MACCALLUM: It's just mind blowing. It's nuts. Thank you very much, Senator. 
It's always good to talk to you, sir. Good to have you here tonight. 

KENNEDY: Thank you, Martha. Thank you. 

MACCALLUM: So, Speaker Newt Gingrich on the presidential recount in Georgia and what the future holds for the president and for the GOP in his mind when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

MACCALLUM: Georgia's Republican Secretary of State announcing a full by hand recount of every ballot today, granting request by President Trump's campaign and led by Republican Congressman Doug Collins before any official results were called.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGE SECRETARY OF STATE: My office will continue to investigate each and every instance of illegal voting, double voting, felon voting, people voting out of state. If you report it, we will investigate it. Every legal vote will count.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

MACCALLUM: Joining us now, Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, author of Trump in the American Future and Fox News Contributor. Good to have you with us tonight, Newt. The secretary of state was just on another program and he said so far, they have not found any systemic irregularities. They said nothing that would rise to the level of even the 10000-vote range. What's your response to what's going on in your home state?

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Well, my response is, that you've got to count the votes. When you - as Senator Kennedy pointed out, something like 70 percent of the Republicans in this country do not believe this was an honest election. The only way you can heal that is to go back through in all the key states that are in doubt and methodically count the votes and have hand counts. 

I think what the secretary of state in Georgia is doing is exactly right. 
If at the end they don't find very many votes, then Biden will carry Georgia. But everybody will know that it was a fair and an accurate election. At the present time, a vast number of Americans do not believe that and think that, frankly, they're being railroaded.

MACCALLUM: I think that's a very good reason to continue these counts, to continue these investigations. A lot of people who are very impatient about the process here. But I think that it's because we have this extraordinary situation during this virus with millions and millions of mail-in-votes. It doesn't hurt anybody to continue this process and to certify these over the next couple of weeks. 

What's your - what do you think the president should - obviously, you think he should see this through, but how do you see the president going forward? 
If it doesn't go his way, what role do you think that he should play going forward?

GINGRICH: Well, I think, first of all, if it genuinely doesn't go his way, he'll become a former president on the 20th of January and then he'll have several big options, because my hunch is, he will be the most popular person in the Republican Party. And there is one example. Grover Cleveland was elected in 1884, defeated in 1888 and then re-elected in 1892. 

Now, whether or not Trump has the appetite for that, who knows? But he clearly has a big enough base that he would be very formidable. And I think the Democrats are right on the verge of a pretty big civil war between the Right and Left wings. And so, the world may look a lot different a year from now in terms of how people feel about the two parties.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I feel like we haven't heard from the president that much in a week, which is an unusual state of affairs because we usually hear from him all the time. But I think because of that, you've got people sort of rushing in to fill the void and talking about what should happen now in the Republican Party. 

You've got John Bolton saying, here's the cold political reality. Trump is enhancing his own brand in his mind while harming the Republican brand. The party needs a long internal conversation about the post-Trump era. But first, it needs to get there honorably. I mean, he got 72 million votes a week ago, and what would you say to John Bolton? 

GINGRICH: You know, Martha, well, I wouldn't say anything to John Bolton, it's not worth the time, but you made a really good point. Trump has been pretty quiet for one week. And in the Rasmussen poll today, he said, I think his highest approval level and his lowest disapproval level, I think, for his whole presidency. 

Now, if he could try the experiment of maybe two more weeks, I always tell people you can't make a comeback unless you leave. People got to get away from you for a little while. And I think the president has been very wise to let the lawyers do their work, that other people do their work and not be right in the middle of this. 

Now, there may come a point when he has to drive some things home and you may see him return to a rally kind of style, if that's what it takes to get in Pennsylvania, for example, to get enough action. 

MACCALLUM: Do you think he should go to Georgia and campaign? 

GINGRICH: Well, I think certainly once this is all over, he should - I don't think he should until the recount is done. I think that right now let's focus on the recount. But frankly, the choice in Georgia is going to be so enormous between two people who would make the Senate radical and two people make them conservative, that I think Trump almost inevitably will be drawn into it.

MACCALLUM: Newt Gingrich, thank you, former speaker. Good to see you tonight, sir. Thanks for being here.

GINGRICH: Thank you. 

MACCALLUM: So, Ken Starr on what he calls a constitutional travesty in the situation over mail-in-ballots between the legislature and the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. This may be the most potent legal situation out there right now. He weighs in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

MACCALLUM: So tonight, an update on where things stand in the House. 
Democrats have clinched a majority by reaching 218 seats. Still, a handful of races are undecided. On election night, the Fox News decision desk correctly predicted that soon after 9 Eastern that Democrats would retain that control of the House, but also estimated that Democrats would add about five seats to their majority. That did not occur. Republicans have gained six seats with multiple races yet to be decided.

President Trump meeting today with campaign staff and advisers as he pushes ahead with these legal challenges to the election. The most prominent lawsuit is in Pennsylvania, where the deadline for mail-in-ballots is at the center of that dispute in a case that could land at the Supreme Court. 
Correspondent Bryan Llenas live once again tonight for us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Bryan.

BRYAN LLENAS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Well, look, Pennsylvania Republicans, the Trump campaign and 10 attorneys general from red states have petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court, urging them to take this case up. 
Now under Pennsylvania's Act 77 mail ballots must arrive by 8 PM on November 3rd to count. 

Now, Pennsylvania's Supreme Court bypassed the legislature and extended the deadline by three days, which meant as long as mail ballots were postmarked by November 3rd and arrived by 5 PM November 6th, they count. Now, Republicans argue the extension is unconstitutional. 

Pennsylvania's Department of State estimates approximately 10,000 ballots arrived within this three-day extension. Even if the U.S. Supreme Court decided that all of these votes are invalid, it's not enough to overcome Biden's lead, which is over 49,700 and the lead is growing as 45,000 mail ballots are still being counted. Republicans are also eying provisional ballots. There are some 94,000 provisional ballots, four times more than in 2016. 

Provisional ballots are cast by voters whose eligibility is in question. 
And this year, it included voters who requested a mail-in-ballot, but then decided they wanted to vote in-person. Republicans are attempting to invalidate really hundreds of thousands of votes by making sweeping constitutional claims that mail-in-voting rules were enforced unequally and unfairly by counties who were confused by last minute secretary of state guidance and by last minute court rulings. 

But the bottom-line is legal experts tell us, you're going to need to have hard evidence to prove that there was mass fraud. And we've looked at these lawsuits and there has been no evidence that there have been ballots that were tampered with, manipulated, thrown away, or that they were cast by a sufficient or a big number of dead voters, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Bryan, thank you very much. So, I'm joined now by former independent counsel, Ken Starr. Ken, good to have you with us tonight. As I said last night, one dead voter is too many. I mean, we can't have any of that going on in our system. And it's just unbelievable that we don't have a better way to count the person and the vote as it goes in, which I think is something that we've all learned here. 

With regard to this case that could go to the Supreme Court. Is that the one that you think has the most legs to it?

KEN STARR, FORMER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: It certainly has constitutional legs. I don't quarrel with the number of votes that may be affected, but you know what, the Supreme Court is not about vote counting as such. It's about maintaining fidelity to law and what the governor did and then, as was just mentioned, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court did utterly lawless, totally unconstitutional. And it's one of the reasons that Justice Sam Alito entered the order that he did on Friday night. 

Now, that may seem like day before yesterday. It was four days ago. That order could have been overturned by the majority of the Supreme Court, there has been none. Now, today was a holiday. We shall see. 

But here's one other point. Allow this process, and you said it earlier, you said it very well to run. Bush v. Gore, 37 days. We now all remember that. This is the eighth day. So, everybody needs to say, let's look at these irregularities. I'm happy to call them that. But in Pennsylvania, a clear constitutional violation occurred, and that is something that the Supreme Court of the United States should remedy as a matter of principle, even if it does not affect the outcome of even the Pennsylvania vote.

MACCALLUM: I think that's a very important point to make, because we have to keep pushing on the system and we have to make sure that the system functions the way that it is supposed to. This is what the Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote today. If Mr. Biden were winning by 537 votes, which was George Bush's final margin in Florida, all hell would break loose. 

The court's decision to invalidate the ballots are to count them might well pick the next president. But the temptation for the justices, since Mr. 
Biden appears to have won Pennsylvania and the White House will be to call this case moot and walk away from the controversy that they say would be a missed opportunity. What do you say?

STARR: I completely agree with that. In light of the closeness of the entire election. And let's face it, the country is not at rest. The New York Times may say whatever it wants to, but you just heard the speaker on your program say 70 percent of Republicans are really restless about this, upset about this. So, I think the Supreme Court could, in fact, do its small part in a very appropriate case. It's been pending since before the election. Take it. It's clean, it's crisp, and it should be absolutely unanimous. 

And I think it has the potential to be unanimous for the court to say to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, you acted unconstitutionally, Governor. So, did you. It's the legislature. We now all know this. We've returned to our Constitution. It's the legislature that counts, not the state Supreme Court.

MACCALLUM: It's clear that Justice Alito was very impassioned by this and it appears disturbed that they didn't take it up before the election and deal with it then. Ken Starr, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight, sir.

STARR: Thank you. 

MACCALLUM: So, despite nearly 72 million votes for President Trump, as we've said, cancel culture is out to get those who worked for him or who supported him. Deroy Murdock and Richard Fowler, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

SUNNY HOSTIN, HOST, "THE VIEW":  People like Kirstjen Nielsen, people like Stephen Miller, people like Kellyanne Conway. People like Vice President Pence, who was woefully inadequate at his role of being head of the Coronavirus Taskforce, and people like Ben Carson and Betsy DeVos.  

I don't think that those people should be able to profit from their experience within the Trump administration and I don't think that they should be forgotten and I don't think that we should look the other way.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

MACCALLUM:  Karl Rove calls that fascism. Watch.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR:  I think, it is fascism. I think it is over the top.  

I think it's on acceptable in this country that political differences can be -- can be dealt with in such a way -- imagine what would happen if the Tea Party -- if a Tea Party activist who had said people who served in the Obama administration, there will be consequences for hiring them.  

The media would be outraged. We ought to be outraged at this. This is un- American.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

MACCALLUM:  Joining me now, Deroy Murdock, contributing editor at "National Review" Online and Richard Fowler, senior fellow at the New Leaders Council, both are FOX News contributors. Gentlemen, welcome back. Always good to have you here.  

Deroy, what you think? What do you about all this?  

DEROY MURDOCK, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR:  Yes, I heard over the last few weeks of the campaign that people need to vote for Democrats, vote for Joe Biden to bring the country together and unify us and all of that. Many hear this sort of thing.  

This smacks of 1950 style McCarthyism. These are basically blacklists, so the idea of developing blacklists not just to say we discredit people, they are wrong and now that Democrats are in charge if, in fact, Biden's apparent victory sticks despite all of these investigations and all that.  

But that these people who work for President Trump aren't going to be allowed to earn any living, pay their bills, take care of themselves and their loved ones, it is absolutely appalling and it's really more than a bit too much to hear this coming from the left, which always likes to talk about the Hollywood 10, McCarthyism blacklist.  

They are creating blacklists again and it's absolutely shameful and disgusting.  

MACCALLUM:  Yes, in terms of unity and democracy and tolerance for people who think differently than you do, who are different than you are, Richard, there is 72 million Americans who checked the Trump box on their ballot.  

You know, and that is what it is and if there are 75 million and Joe Biden wins this election outright when everything is certified, everybody is going to have to accept that outcome, but to say that those people shouldn't be able to have a future seems very un-liberal, very undemocratic, doesn't it?  

RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR:  Listen, I think you have to listen to the words of President-elect Biden when he says that he wants to be the President for all Americans, including those who currently serve for the Trump administration.  

I think you have to listen to his words and delineate him and the Democratic Party from a few faint voices on the left. Don't get me wrong, I think there are folks who have disagreement with Trump and the Trump Cabinet and their ability to do work or the lack thereof, and we settled that in this election where 76 million Americans voted for President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris.  

That's it. The game is over. Let these folks go live their lives and go do their jobs as long as they are not Cabinet Secretaries anymore.  

MACCALLUM:  But should they be vilified, Richard? Should they be spoken of that way as if their political beliefs are worthy of banishing them from society? I mean, you heard Sunny Hostin. I just -- I don't understand where that kind of venom comes from, really. I really don't.  

FOWLER:  Listen, I don't agree with Sunny Hostin on this particular point. 
I think they should be able to take care of their families and live their lives. If you have policy disagreement with them, then let's talk about it. 

If you think they were unqualified for their job, then you can talk about that and we won that. We actually won that debate in this election.  

I think is a number of Trump Cabinet positions that the folks who had those jobs who were unqualified, and they are no longer there. On January 20th, they won't be there anymore, and so we won this election and I think it's time for our party to focus on the matter at hand, which is leading this country and flattening this curve on COVID-19 instead of this sort of nascent conversation that we hear from a few faint voices on the left, which don't represent the entirety of the Democratic Party.  

MACCALLUM:  I just wanted -- "Washington Post" is reporting, we thought we might get some information on some Cabinet picks tonight that Joe Biden according to "The Washington Post" has selected, Ron Klain as his Chief of Staff.  

Deroy, as we start to see this take shape, all of these choices will begin to inform people on where that administration will be headed, what kind of things they would be interested in accomplishing.  

MURDOCK:  Well, again, we will see if Ron Klain takes that position or not. 
I guess, these challenges in litigation and so on will settle that sometime between now and December, I suppose, but Ron Klain, I believe is a veteran of the Obama-Biden White House. He also was someone who came out and said a couple years ago regarding the H1N1 virus that they were just very lucky that they didn't have a bigger death toll.  

I think he said it was just good luck that it didn't turn out to be a mass death event because that virus is nowhere as deadly as COVID-19, so that's interesting. I imagine if he is in a position, those tapes will be played and people will familiarizer themselves with those comments which are really rather disturbing.  

MACCALLUM:  All right, we are going to leave it there, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Richard Fowler and Deroy Murdock, good to see you both.  

FOWLER:  Good to see you, Martha.  

MURDOCK:  Good to see you.  

MACCALLUM:  So the U.S. surpassing two grim virus milestones as Thanksgiving fast approaches with the promise of a vaccine on the horizon. 
Former Acting Director of the C.D.C., Dr. Richard Besser breaks down what you need to understand about what's going on now, after this.  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  

MACCALLUM:  The U.S. surpassing a record-setting 140,000 new virus cases today. Hospitalizations also at an all-time high of nearly 62,000 across the country and so many Americans are anxiously awaiting this vaccine and hoping that that will bring some kind of normalcy back to the country.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

ALEX AZAR, HUMAN AND HEALTH SERVICES SECRETARY:  Pfizer will be producing and delivering to us approximately 20 million doses of vaccine each month starting at the end of this month and November.  

We have anticipated that we will have enough vaccine by the end of December to have vaccinated our most vulnerable citizens in nursing homes and otherwise and by the end of January, enough for all healthcare workers and first responders and enough for all Americans by the end of March to early April to have general vaccination programs.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

MACCALLUM:  Here now, Dr. Richard Besser, President and CEO of Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and former Acting Director of the C.D.C. Doctor, thank you so much for being here.  

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF C.D.C.:  Good to be here.  

MACCALLUM:  What's your response when you hear that time schedule for the vaccine?  

BESSER:  Well, you know, I'm excited about the news, the early news from Pfizer about their vaccine, but it is early news, and we need to have the data verified by independent scientists and data further out.  

This was looking at how effective the vaccines were seven days after your second dose. They will next look and see how effective were they 28 days after? And then they will need another month of safety data.  

Assuming all of that goes well and there is a vaccine, it's exciting to think that there will be vaccine for folks in nursing homes.  

But for the general public, you know, for this winter, we cannot expect vaccines to have an impact. The numbers that you were just citing rising around the country really call on us to step up and do what we can to reduce transmission to ourselves, our families, and our communities.  

And the good news out of the C.D.C. today was that the evidence is now showing that masks not only protect other people from you spreading the virus to them if you happen to have it and don't have symptoms, but it will reduce by up to 70 percent the chances that you or anyone else wearing a mask will get COVID.  

MACCALLUM:  Yes, but just -- you know, it's just sort of the premise under which a lot of people have been operating for a while, that just wear the mask and hopefully it helps, so it's good to have some confirmation from them on that.  

But we all know that when it kind of breaks down is when you're at gatherings with friends and family and people get that feeling that it feels safer and you've got Thanksgiving coming up and all of that and everybody would love to be able to have a little bit more freedom at those events, but you think we have to be really careful.  

BESSER:  Yes. It's a challenging time because in the winter, the virus survives longer. It stays in the air longer and with everyone gathering for Holidays, it's a risky period. You know, my parents are both 90 and they live here in town and we will deliver them Thanksgiving Dinner, but we are not going to get together because of the risk.  

And you really have to think hard about whether it's safe to get together or whether you want to look for a Zoom-type of Thanksgiving this year.  

MACCALLUM:  Do think that people who have had the virus will be vaccinated, or should be vaccinated when there's enough?  

BESSER:  You know, it's a really good question. We still don't know if you've had this infection, how long your protection lasts. So that's one of the things that will be studied.  

You know, clearly they will want to give the vaccine first to people who haven't had the infection, but then over time, that is one of the things to think about.  

I think it would be very unlikely that there will be harm from that, but you want to make sure that those who are at risk are getting this first and so nursing homes first and healthcare workers and then moving down the line to those who are at greatest risk of severe disease.  

MACCALLUM:  So it is Veteran's Day of course and I read some very sad statistics about the impact on our veterans from COVID-19 in many ways. 
What are your thoughts on that, Doctor?  

BESSER:  Yes, it's so important we reflect on that today, Martha. The number of cases is quite high, as is deaths, but the toll in terms of mental health has been extremely severe for veterans.  

It's severe across the board, but people who have served our country in our Armed Forces are at particular risk and it's important that we do all we can to ensure that they have services.  

You know, there were 28 million people at the start of the pandemic without health insurance and we need to make sure that everyone in America has, you know, comprehensive health insurance for physical health, as well as mental health because many people who don't even get the infection because of the isolation and the stress are really in need of mental health services.  

MACCALLUM:  Yes, and reach out to them today if you know veterans in your neighborhood and in your circle.  

BESSER:  It's so important.  

MACCALLUM:  It is very important. Dr. Besser, thank you. Great to have you here tonight. Thank you, sir.  

BESSER:  Thank you, Martha.  

MACCALLUM:  So, next up, a Veteran's Day tribute to our heroes is next.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

JOHNNY "JOEY" JONES, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR:  Thank you to all the generations that have served in war and served in peacetime because they are selfless, they love this country, and they're willing to dedicate their lives to keep us safe and free.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  

MACCALLUM:  On this Veteran's Day, a special message from America's heroes about the meaning of service, sacrifice and duty to country. Watch.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

ROLAND BARHYTE, WWII ARMY PARATROOPER:  I'm very fortunate to be a veteran, because it means I survived the war. I and others are only veterans thanks to our comrades in arms who made the ultimate sacrifice to keep us and our country safe.  

BRET ADAMS, ARMY VETERAN:  For me, like many veterans, that service doesn't end once we take off the uniform. And you don't have to have served in the military to serve our great nation and our communities.  

ALINA SPIES, ARMY VETERAN AND NY STATE POLICE SERGEANT:  When I think of veterans, I think of selflessness, sacrifice and service. Those attributes do not go away when the uniforms come off.  

JIMMY WHITE, NAVY VETERAN:  The veteran community is robust. The veteran community is resourceful. The veteran community is resilient.  

RALPH ABERCIA, WWII VETERAN BEAT COVID-19:  It is a pleasure to have the ability to talk to all my old friends here in the service. You think about all the poor people that weren't able to come back to this country.  

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, ARMY VETERAN:  What you honor is a reflection of what you value, which is why we need to honor vets not just on Veteran's Day, but every day.  

JONES:  This is one day a year I get to see everyone in the country to say thank you to my brothers and sisters. To the ones I call heroes, to the ones I went to war with, Veteran's Day is the day of the year that this entire country pauses and says thank you to all of the generations that have served in war and served in peacetime.  

WOODY WILLIAMS, WWII MEDAL OF HONOR RECIPIENT:  Veteran's Day is something that we can participate in to show our appreciation for those who have served and kept us a free people and a free nation. We must take part in Veteran's Day and recognize those who risked their lives on the line.  

ADMIRAL WILLIAM MCRAVEN, OVERSAW NAVY'S BIN LADEN RAID:  The greatest generation of World War II and all those that fought in Korea and Vietnam and the conflicts that followed inspired me to put on a uniform and not a day goes by that I am not honored to have had that opportunity.  

I want to thank all of those that have served throughout the years and that are serving today. You represent the very best this country has to offer. 
Your sense of duty, honor and country makes all of us proud.  

GENERAL JAMES MATTIS, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE:  My service reminded me that our country didn't need to be perfect to be worth fighting for. In fact, I took one big lesson away from my time in the service, one that keeps me confident and optimistic about America's future.  

And that lesson is how strong we are when we trust each other and work together. Like we veterans did when we were soldiers once and young.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

MACCALLUM:  A beautiful tribute. We thank them all who have served our country and to pay tribute to our 18 million living U.S. veterans, USAA is challenging Americans to show their support on social media with honor through action challenge.  

Joining me now is Vice Admirable John Bird, Senior Vice President of Military Affairs at USAA. Fink is so much, Admiral Bird, for being here today. Tell us what people can do through this challenge tonight, sir.  

VICE ADMIRABLE JOHN BIRD, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF MILITARY AFFAIRS, USAA:  
Well, Martha, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be with you. Happy Veteran's Day and what a lovely tribute.  

Yes, this is the third year in a row that USAA is doing a digital tribute to our veterans, a small thing, #HonorThroughAction. Real simple. You take a marker, a sharpie, you put a V on your hand, put the initial of veterans you want to pay honor and tribute to. Take a picture of it and post it, #HonorThroughAction.  

You can see the V on my hand. I put the initials of my father and two brothers who all served our country.  

MACCALLUM:  It's a great way to do it. I'm going to do it right after the show, I will put it on my hand and spread it around as well. Admiral, talk to me about why it's so important I think to pause today.  

You feel sometimes like Memorial Day and Veteran's Day can get lost and they deserve the kind of reverence and recognition that we are trying to get it here tonight. Tell everybody a home why this matters so much.  

BIRD:  Well, it matters so much because veterans, people who served in the military have given so much. Essentially, they are the reasons why we enjoy the freedoms we have today, why we have this wonderful way of life and I would say in these particularly challenging times, it's important that we come together as a nation, pay honor, tribute and thanks to veterans for the service they gave, willing to put service before self.  

I mean, it means so much and all day ask for is a simple thank you.  

MACCALLUM:  Yes, just looking at your own history, you spent 35 years in the Navy, a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, mechanical engineer, Masters in Engineering, Commander of Submarine Fleet Group 7, Commander of Submarine Group 8. What's the most important thing that all of that experience and serving the country in all of the ways that you have? What resonates to you? What sticks with you from all of your service?  

BIRD:  Well, thank you, Martha. As many of the people in your tribute said, for me, serving our country was an honor and a privilege and I do mean that.  

The thing I take away from it is what somebody said that the amazing thing to me were the great Americans, the young Americans that came in, voluntarily raised their right hand and took an oath to protect and defend our Constitution and our country and put their lives on the line.  

And I can tell you something, the longer I served, the greater were the Americans that came in. Wonderful, magnificent, remarkable young men women and what I take away from that is it built further confidence I have in this great country and built great confidence I have in the younger generation coming in.  

It makes me sleep better at night knowing these young great Americans.  

MACCALLUM:  Well, we thank you for your service, Admiral Bird, and we thank you for sharing these stories with us today, amazing to see all of these veterans, thank you, sir. We will all sleep well tonight, thanks to you and all those who served. Thank you, sir.  

BIRD:  Thank you so much.  

MACCALLUM:  So on this week's "Untold Story" podcast, I had an amazing discussion with World War II veteran, Frank Scissor (ph) who shared incredible stories about marching with General Patton and fighting in the Battle of the Bulge and liberating Dachau.  

It's an amazing story, so I hope you'll take some time to listen to that.  

This is THE STORY on November 11th, 2020, but as always, THE STORY continues and we will see you back your tomorrow night.  
 

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