Filmmakers of ‘Gosnell’ weigh in on Gov. Ralph Northam’s controversial late-term abortion comments
Ann McElhinney and Phelim McAleer discuss late-term abortions and infanticide with Judge Jeanine.
This is a rush transcript from "Justice with Judge Jeanine," February 2, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JEANINE PIRRO, HOST: Breaking tonight. Virginia's governor refusing to step down, and now denies he was in what he calls an offensive, racist and despicable yearbook photo.
Hello and welcome to "Justice." I'm Judge Jeanine Pirro. Thanks for being with us tonight, and thanks to all of you for once again, making "Justice" number one last weekend.
Now we've got a big show on deck for you tonight with reaction to all the breaking news today with Anthony Scaramucci, Corey Lewandowski, Amy Holmes, Charlie Kirk, just to name a few. But first, my open.
What I'm about to tell you is extremely important to me. He represents the worst cultural shift that I've witnessed in this country and it matters not if you're pro-choice, pro-life or an agnostic. You must take notice.
I'm talking about the legalization of infanticide, or to put it in layman's terms, absolution for the intentional killing of full-term babies, babies born alive who are then murdered or allowed to die on the mother's say so.
The procedure is described by Virginia Governor Ralph Northam, a pediatric neurologist, no less, who coldly describes and defends the killing of babies after they are born.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RALPH NORTHAM, D-VA: If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated, if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: Now, he didn't say how, but the meaning is clear. If the mother wants the baby dead, the baby dies. By way of motivation, consider this. Northam received over $2 million from Planned Parenthood. You remember Planned Parenthood in those undercover films where the sale of baby parts is discussed and you can now add New York State - they now allow third-term abortions where a baby can be delivered full-term, born alive and then allowed to die or worse.
Governor Andrew Cuomo for the sake of full disclosure, I ran against him for Attorney General in New York State in 2006, openly celebrated this government sanction infanticide by lighting up New York's World Trade Center in pink.
You celebrate barbaric homicides where an entire class of helpless human beings born alive are denied equal protection under the Constitution and denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? In fact, there's no requirement that the health of the mother even be at risk.
You celebrate the innocent helpless babies, enjoy less protection by the lawless left than endangered species like turtles or caterpillars? You celebrate lethal violence against a baby after it is born? Shame on you. What would your father, Governor Mario Cuomo say if he were alive?
And don't give me this hogwash that maybe the baby is deformed. There are so many tests -- sonograms, amniocentesis, DNA screening and so much more - - long before the 38th week, that you would celebrate the ideological justification to take the lives of innocent human beings with no requirement other than the health of the mother, which isn't even defined. It undermines human dignity.
But there are already in addition to New York, six states and the District of Columbia that allow these barbaric procedures.
Now, I've actually prosecuted infanticide cases where infants are killed intentionally. It's a homicide, folks, not an abortion.
Governor Cuomo, are you concerned that the homicide statute remains on the books in New York State and the person is defined as a baby born and born alive that a prosecutor under Article 125 of New York's Penal Law can still prosecute a doctor or an attendant for killing a baby? That statute is still on the books, Governor. I don't think you and your left loving cronies thought that one through.
And the irony is, we actually have -- get this -- no kills cities where animals will not be euthanized even if they're not adopted. And I've actually prosecuted animal cruelty cases, too, where animals are intentionally killed and they can get a maximum of two years in jail.
So babies carried in the mother's womb for nine months and then killed that's not criminal? And where is the Catholic Church on this? We've got a Pope who is more worried about climate change and equal pay for women than attending to his own flock in the Middle East where genocide against Christians occurs. The Catholic Church has lost enough credibility in the last few years for them to not step up in every pulpit and every church and this nation and implore their congregants to recognize the evil being committed. If they don't do this, then they're part of the problem.
Tomorrow is Sunday. Listen closely to what your priest says. Hopefully, he will talk about the evil that is occurring under the law across this country.
But back to the dingbat Governor, Dr. Mengele himself who tried to justify an unjustifiable infanticide. We now find out that in his medical school yearbook, he thought it was funny to either dresses a Ku Klux Klansmen, or in blackface.
His first response when outed, he called it clearly racist and offensive and said, "I am deeply sorry for the decision I made to appear as I did in this photo." Well, then Dr. Mengele sleeps on it and decides today, wait, it's really not me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORTHAM: It's definitely not me. I can tell by looking at it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: Are you stupid? Politics 101. If you apologize for something that everyone considers outrageous and anyone else, by the way would lose their job over it, then you get up the next day and say, "It wasn't me." You either fire your political consultant or change your meds. Are you schizo, too?
Doc, now, you know someone is going to go out and find your medical school pals, who will admit that you are known by a racist nickname, so vile I can't repeat it or put it on the screen and they will be asked if you signed their yearbook and I'm afraid to think how aware you signed or whether you added on what is already outrageous overt racism and just so my viewers get a gist of who you are, you admit now that you've dressed in blackface before, so you could move walk like Michael Jackson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said that the competition in San Antonio was a dance competition?
ROTHAM: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was that you danced the moonwalk.
ROTHAM: That's right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you still able to moonwalk.
ROTHAM: My wife says appropriate circumstances.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: No, Ralph. It's perfectly appropriate for you to do the right thing and moonwalk your butt right out of the Governor's Mansion. Or better yet do us all a favor and just, beat it.
And that's my open. Let me know what you think on my Facebook page, Twitter, #JudgeJeanine.
Now, I've actually prosecuted animal cruelty cases where animals are intentionally killed and the maximum sentence is two years. Are babies carried in the womb for nine months less important?
Here with a reaction to my opening statement and all of the developing news today on the Virginia Governor, former White House Communications Director, Anthony Scaramucci, joins me now. Good evening.
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It's nice to be here, Judge.
PIRRO: Good to have you here. I know it's a Saturday night. You have so many other things to do.
SCARAMUCCI: I love it. It's freezing cold. It's a sign of my love and admiration for you that I would absolutely be here. Never missing an invitation.
PIRRO: Thank you.
SCARAMUCCI: I thought it was very well said. I think the only thing I would have added was Justice Blackman in 1972, he wrote that decision Roe versus Wade at the Mayo Clinic and he broke it up into three trimesters, and he was very, very pointed about the third trimester.
And so, the risk here for Governor Cuomo and those other nine states is that it gets tried and it get put back into the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court is now tilted a little bit more to the right. And anything could happen because, as we know now that Judge Jeanine that the science has changed since 1972.
And so if you go back and look at that decision, the third trimester or something that he was way, way against in that decision and so it's one of the weird things. I took Constitutional Law, and I remember reading that case and read it again tonight before I came back in here.
PIRRO: But you know, but what do you attribute to the fact that the left is so bold about embracing, about taking this all the way until birth and afterbirth?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, I mean I think it's a byproduct of everything that's going on in the left right now, which is actually very good for the President because if you have Ocasio-Cortez or you pick Senator Harris or you pick one of the people, they're lurching so far to the left and they're taking even the social issues further to the left and even social moderates would like them to be.
I don't think anybody could sit here at this desk or in other places and say hey, we've got to have infanticide. You know, I just think it's terrible, so for me, even social moderates out there, even people that are pro-choice, I think this is a disgusting element of the law and I hope the Governor has the sense to pull back on this thing before it's too late.
PIRRO: Well, you know one of the things that I tried not to do is to talk about in depth what actually happens. It is disgusting and I really believe whether you're a pro-choice, pro-life or an agnostic that if you don't recognize the slippery slope of as a society saying, "You can have that baby," and the mother on a whim. There's no requirement she be - her health be impaired.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, there is a silver lining to all of this though. I mean, to me I think it all goes well for the President's reelection. It all goes well for his decisions on making potentially new Supreme Court nominees and I also think it's so off the mark from where the average American is.
Even, forget about Conservative Americans, Judge, it's moderate Americans who would look at something like this and find it so reprehensible and I love the way you tied it into the Animal Cruelty Act and so, if you can't see that these are still -- these are in the same exact bucket, what are you guys thinking?
And again, it's just this lurch to the left to try to see who can get further to the left than the next person into the center for the 2020 reelect.
PIRRO: Okay, and what about Northam? I mean, this guy is digging in his heel saying he's not going to resign.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think he's doing that because of what happened to Al Franken. I think he's looking back and a lot of these senators felt that they were calling for Senator Franken's resignation and they think he ejected too quickly and so, I think what's happening right now, I think actually their strategy is everybody on the left will denounce him. He'll sit there and see if this thing blows over and he catches a break in the news cycle and then he could stay in power.
But what I really think is going to happen is corporations, the very large corporations in Virginia are going to turn on the Governor. And once they start turning on the Governor, it's sort of game over for him. So I predict he will eventually resign.
PIRRO: But how do they do that?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think they - I think they start leaning on him to say, "Hey, if you're not leaving, we're leaving." Okay. And they start pulling out of the state, they start pulling resources and employees and they move into other states that are business friendly. I think it's a very damaging thing.
I mean, if was a CEO of a Fortune 50 company and I was domiciled in the state of Virginia. I'd be picking up the phone and calling them and saying, "Hey, man, you've got to resign, you haven't handled this right. It's clear that you're racist, and it's clearly you've been a racist for the last three decades. You're not going to be able to coat this thing over. The society's not tolerating that anymore."
So that's what's going to happen to this guy. It's going to be a cabal of CEOs in addition to politicians that pull him out.
PIRRO: But the amazing part is he is not just a racist, as you say, he's a liar. He comes out and says," I'm sorry, I'm sorry," and the next day he says, "It wasn't me." And then he says, "And oh by the way, I used to do blackface and Michael Jackson." And, "Oh by the way, when I was in medical school ..." he was known by nickname that we thought too vile put on there.
SCARAMUCCI: Most of these politicians are liars, Judge, and so I think, no one really cares about that. I think what they really care about is he's a bona fide dyed in the wool racist. It's 2018. It's time to walk off the stage like you said, moonwalk off the stage. Do one of those heads slides like the lion and the Wizard of Oz, but you've got to get yourself out of here because you're going to destroy the state and if you want to protect your family and somehow, have a renaissance in America --
Because America does believe in second chances. Get yourself out there and have a big turn of heart the way Governor Wallace did after his situation in the 1960s, but this guy has got to go and if I was a friend of his, I'd say, go now before it gets worse for you.
PIRRO: Anyway, it's always good to see you.
SCARAMUCCI: It's great to be here.
PIRRO: Anthony Scaramucci.
SCARAMUCCI: I appreciate it, Judge.
PIRRO: Thanks for being here.
SCARAMUCCI: You're the best. You know that. And congratulations on the big ratings. I'm loving it.
PIRRO: Thank you. Thank you. I'm very fortunate. I have not --
SCARAMUCCI: It's not just the President watching. You've got the whole big team.
PIRRO: It's the guests. How's that?
SCARAMUCCI: Amen. I've got on my DVR.
PIRRO: And still ahead, in-depth coverage of the President's upcoming State of the Union, the left's agenda and the ever-growing list of Democratic 2020 presidential candidates with Corey Lewandowski, Charlie Kirk and more.
But first, we delve deeper into Ralph Northam's controversial comments and the disturbing growing culture of late-term abortion with the producers of "Gosnell." "Justice" will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PIRRO: Growing outrage tonight across the country over late-term abortion legislation in several states. You heard my open. Now take a look at a clip from the 2018 film "Gosnell" about convicted murderer and abortionist, Dr. Kermit Gosnell. Viewer discretion is advised.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when you inject the fetus, do you put the needle here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there, and that stops the heart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: Here now with reaction, the authors and filmmakers of "Gosnell," Ann McElhinney and Phelim McAleer. Good evening to you both. Now, you first wrote the book, you produce the movie. And now, I understand your DVD is coming out on Tuesday. But you know, America really hasn't heard about a lot of this other than this individual, Dr. Kermit Gosnell, who was a serial murderer, now, we're seeing that states are legitimizing infanticide that was illegal, what is your take on it?
ANN MCELHINNEY, PRODUCER, GOSNELL: Well, I think it's really interesting. I mean, the reason our whole motivation, the whole reason that we decided to make this movie -- the whole reason -- was because of the testimony that was heard in the court when Gosnell was on trial and that testimony described you know, comfort care that if a baby was born alive in a botched abortion, you'd let it - just let it die, eventually will pass.
And we actually - it was the whole reason we made this movie. We decided, you know, we felt, America ought to know this. Ordinary - exactly as you said in your introduction, Judge, people don't know this. Ordinary people don't know this. And we thought, you know what? We're going to put this testimony verbatim into this movie because people need to know, because people when they know, they don't like it.
And that's why we've seen this incredible reaction to what the Governor said, to what Representative Tran said because by the way, this is already the law. This is already the law in a lot of parts of America. And I think what's really good about all of this is that people are finally learning that.
PIRRO: Well, and I'll ask you this, Phelim, I mean when the detective that you reference in the movie and in the book sorted the investigations, some of the bodies had disappeared. Where do you think the bodies go if a mother says and goes in and says, "I don't want this baby." Third-term, 40 weeks - it doesn't matter. And they let the baby die or they kill the baby, I'm not sure which happens, you probably know more than I do, what happens to the baby's body?
PHELIM MCALEER, PRODUCER, GOSNELL: Well, as the person with the undercover videos find out, babies bodies - aborted babies bodies are a very valuable commodity in today's America. Research institutions, elite universities, medical centers pay a lot of money for baby parts.
I find myself in complete shock saying that on television in America in 2019, but you can buy the arms and legs and skin of babies today. It's shocking.
PIRRO: I got the viewers - I've got to keep my viewers on this. Right now, with these abortion clinics or -- you know, they're worse than that around the country. There are some that occur not in hospitals and I think the Virginia law, you know, that didn't pass, that bill by one vote. They were willing to just have these things done in clinics, not in hospitals. Are they done in clinics where the mothers are actually injured or die?
MCELHINNEY: Absolutely. I mean, this is exactly the story we had with Kermit Gosnell where you know, women were coming out. That clinic was in operation for 30 years. As I said, 17 years of those years that this guy was practicing, the Department of Health in Harrisburg never inspected and during those 17 years, two women died. Semika Shaw died and Karnamaya Mongar died.
And other women were walking out of that place extremely badly injured, and no one did anything until one brave detective, Detective Jim Wood blew this whole thing up and that's why we have this case. That's why we've made this movie. That's why we wrote this book.
And I'm glad that finally, the story is getting heard. Finally, people are finding out what's already legal in America. And I would urge people to watch the movie. You know, as you say, it's coming out on Tuesday. It's already available on video on demand. And people are getting an education.
We know about a half million people have seen the movie already, and they are shocked. We're getting messages from people all over the country who say they didn't know. Who said, you know, I didn't know this. And by the way, I don't like this. And these are people from every political persuasion and they're saying, "I've changed I used to be comfortably pro- choice. I'm not pro-choice anymore. I'm pro-life."
People have dedicated their lives. I had a girl the other day just on the Instagram, she put a tattoo on her wrist with the letter A representing one of the babies that Gosnell killed, a baby called Baby Boy A, and she actually made a tattoo and said she's dedicating the rest of her life to fighting for these children.
I think this is something really healthy that's happened recently, Judge, with these particular pronouncements. Finally, people are finding out and I think the next election could be the abortion election. It'll be - we will have Donald Trump on one side defending the most defenseless and we have the Democrats who want abortion up to nine months.
PIRRO: And I must tell you, Phelim, I mean, I used to prosecute infanticide cases. It was against the law. It's a homicide. Now, it's like, "Oh no problem." But how difficult was it? Did Hollywood give you a hard time making this movie?
MCALEER: Hollywood tried to suppress this movie. We couldn't get any funding. We had to go to crowdfunding. Thirty thousand people gave $2.3 million, but even Kickstarter wouldn't let us on their service.
NPR wouldn't take our ads. Facebook blocked our ads and "New York Times" blocked our ads, but I think Governor Northam has been wonderful. He has done the state some service. He's spoken loudly and clearly and told the nation what really goes on at the moment in other states.
He's not Governor Northam now, He's governor Gosnell. People need to know that. This is what's going on right - it's going on in eight states across the United States at the moment, including some red states, by the way.
Kansas, Utah - a baby is let die if it's born alive after an abortion, just like the Governor described and that people should know that and are they happy with it?
PIRRO: Well, you're right and actually, you call - I call him Governor Mengele. This is horrible stuff. And you know, we could have gotten a lot more specific about how the babies die. But I think the important thing is that the public know and hopefully the church will get involved. Ann McElhinney and Phelim McAleer, thank you so much for being with us tonight.
MCELHINNEY: It was great. Thanks so much for having us.
PIRRO: All right, and coming up. Think the debate on late-term abortions is new, think again. Find out what our old pal, Hillary had to say on the subject just a few years ago and who predicted the very scenario we find ourselves in today.
Corey Lewandowski joins me to break it down, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERT GRAY, CORRESPONDENT: Live from "America's News Headquarters," I'm Robert Gray. The political crisis in Venezuela escalating this evening, as tens of thousands of protesters flooded the streets of Caracas, demanding the ouster of President Nicolas Maduro in exchange for opposition leader, Juan Guiado. Guaido demanding that Maduro agree to a presidential election overseen by international observers. Maduro's regime was dealt a further blow on Saturday with the defection of the country's top Air Force general.
Disturbing new video showing the moment a mining damn collapsed last month in southeastern Brazil. The breach, unleashing an avalanche of mud and waste. Investigator say, they're still looking for the cause. At least 121 people were killed and 226 others are still missing. Local officials fear that some of the bodies may never be found. Now back to the Judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: With what Hillary is saying in the ninth month, you can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb of the mother just prior to the birth of the baby. Now you can say that that's okay, and Hillary can say that that's okay. But it's not okay with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: That's Donald Trump back in 2016 debating Hillary Clinton. Her response to what he said that he was using scare rhetoric. Joining me now with reaction to that and more, former Trump campaign manager, co-author of "Trump's Enemies," Corey Lewandowski. All right, Corey, I'll give you a chance to comment on the now President's prediction that clearly was on point.
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, Judge you know, this President has said it so many times that what he's talking about comes to fruition down the road and what we've seen from this administration, the Trump-Pence administration is the most pro-life administration in the history of our country.
He stood up for the right to life as a candidate. What they've done as an administration only further cements how strong it is that the life of the baby is critical. And what we've seen from the left in the last week is disgusting to me.
It's actually murder, Judge, when a baby is born alive, we're going to let that baby be comforted before we kill that child? That's called murder and it should be stopped.
PIRRO: Well, you know, it's interesting, and I must tell you, Corey, I don't see this as pro-life, pro-choice. To me, this is so far beyond that. This is infanticide. This is homicide. This is a baby out of the womb. We're not talking about an unborn, we're talking about out of the womb. This is where we previously drew the line. So who's next? What's next? If they're too old, do we get rid of them? Do we euthanize them?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, Judge, it's a great question. Look, they're saying this baby can actually be born alive and they're saying then we'll take the necessary action.
This is what the law in Virginia that was actually proposed, that unnecessary action is actually euthanizing a child, that's called murder in this country. It is not tolerated and those people should be prosecuted.
PIRRO: And here's the problem. There are seven states now that have absolutely no abortion laws and so, this is happening all over the country as my prior guests said, and I don't think we realize in America, so for one thing we can thank Governor Mengele or Northam, but I'm not going to waste time on that.
Let's talk about the State of the Union. The President is going to get the State of the Union on Tuesday. He's got a lot of good stuff to talk about. How is he going to deal with the - let's start with the wall, or the steel slats, excuse me. Steel slats.
LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, we can't say wall anymore, but it's going to be a big, beautiful barrier, we're going to call it, Judge. It is going to be a beautiful barrier and what he's going to do is, I think he's going to tease the American people and he's going to tell them if Nancy Pelosi continues to refuse to negotiate, he will use the emergency authority as a last ditch effort to make sure that we have a border secure on our southern border to protect Americans.
He's going to outline why that's important to the 50 million Americans watching that speech. And the American people agree with them. They agree that we need to have border security and I think that's going to be a major talking point in the State of the Union that he is going to tease that night. He's not going to do it right away, but it's going to come to fruition shortly thereafter, if Pelosi continues to refuse to negotiate.
PIRRO: And you know what's amazing is, since the law was passed in 1976, the Emergency Act - it's been used since '79, the first time it was used like more than 50 or 60 times. Nobody even thinks about that. But if President Trump wants to use it all, you know, Chicken Little, the sky is falling. Do you think the President will talk about this issue of these third-term abortions and the killing of babies already born and alive?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think you will, Judge, and look to your point, I just want to put an exclamation point on it. It's been used 54 times since as Jimmy Carter. Bill Clinton used it 17 times, six of which are still in effect to this very day as we sit here from actions that Bill Clinton took.
So this isn't something new. None of the American people ever heard of that. But because it's Donald Trump, they want to make it a bigger issue than it really is. And as it relates to the issue of abortion, this President, his administration has been so pro-life, what they have done was as it relates to the March for Life and standing up for those unborn, I am certain, he's going to mention the State of the Union, because he is with the mainstream American people who say you can't simply have someone born don't like the way they look, or the disease they may have, and decide to euthanize that person. That's not how our country functions.
PIRRO: Yes, and it isn't even the way they look or disease. It's like the whim of the mother. There's no definition. Anyway, Corey Lewandowski, always great to have you on the show. Thanks for being with us tonight.
LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you, Judge.
PIRRO: All right and Northam's comments on abortion wasn't his only screw up this week. Amy Holmes joins us next to discuss his racist past and the calls for him to resign. Do you think his political career survives these controversies? "Justice" is back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PIRRO: The Virginia Governor ignoring a flood of calls, including many from his own party for his resignation over a racist yearbook photo. He now says it wasn't him. Political columnist Amy Holmes joins me now with reaction. Amy, good to have you back on "Justice."
AMY HOLMES, POLITICAL COLUMNIST: Thank you.
PIRRO: All right, what's going to happen to this guy?
HOLMES: Well, listen, if you didn't think that he should resign over the yearbook photo, he should resign for thinking that we're all stupid. Okay. This is ridiculous. My last name might be Holmes, but I don't need to be Sherlock to get to the bottom of this little Scooby Doo mystery.
The fact that he initially said, "Yes, it was me." But was it blackface? Was it Klan hood? Can't be sure, which in and of itself is really strange. I mean, how do you not know if you've never dressed in a Klan hood?
PIRRO: What we do know is he's dressed in blackface before and he came out today denying that.
HOLMES: And now he's trying to blame Michael Jackson. I mean, this is ridiculous. I mean, he even said, Judge Jeanine, I couldn't get over this, that he only put a little bit of shoe polish because everybody knows how hard it is to get it off your face. I'm like, I actually didn't know that little tidbit. How would you know that? Is it hard to get off your pillowcase, too? I mean, it's ridiculous.
PIRRO: Let me -- I want to pull up the President's tweet not too long ago, maybe an hour ago. And it reads, "Ed Gillespie, who ran for Governor of the great State of Virginia against Ralph Northam must now, be thinking malpractice and dereliction of duty with regard to his opposition research staff. If they find that terrible picture before the election, he wins by 20 points."
HOLMES: I think that's an excellent point. And you know, Mr. Bongino that he had actually received the picture in October of 2018, couldn't confirm it. So he didn't publish it. So it was out there and it was circulating. Why it didn't come into play in the election? Who knows? But it's in play now.
And I even wondered, to be a little bit of a conspiracy theorist, if this wasn't an inside job to get rid of Governor Northam after all of his infanticide comments.
PIRRO: Yes, but you know, I mean, I'm outraged. I think the infanticide enough is enough to get rid of him, but that me. But it seems that this is a movement by the left across the country. New York lighting up the spire of the World Freedom Tower World Trade Center, celebrating and calling this women's health. This is women's health. Let's kill the baby.
HOLMES: Judge, I'm pro-choice and I have never understood the support for late-term abortion. It is infanticide. It's killing a baby. Now I'm not a medical expert, but years ago, talking to an OBGYN, he told me that if a mother is in, you know, a medical emergency, say a pregnant woman in a car crash, the normal medical procedure is to do an emergency C-section, get the baby on life support, get the mother on life support and then give her the necessary medical care.
But what the Governor was suggesting was a baby could actually be born and left to die. I mean, Judge, we give medical treatment to convicted murderers in prison. They get to go to the hospital. You're telling me a newborn baby doesn't get to go to the hospital? This is outrageous. I don't understand the extremism on this. It almost feels like mass psychosis that people have convinced themselves that this is a moral position when normal average people looking from the outside say, "Are all you people crazy?"
PIRRO: Well, you know, but it is a great point. I mean, we give medical care to an illegal MS-13 member who irrespective of whether he killed a young girl with a baseball bat or chopped her head off, we could take care of them.
HOLMES: We might even put him in a helicopter to get him to the nearest hospital.
PIRRO: That's right. But how anyone could suggest that once the baby is born and by the way, we can prove that the baby is born. There's air in the lungs. The lungs flow and it's the whole thing. It's past viable, the baby is out there.
So why are people celebrating the ability to get rid of a baby that is as you call it psychosis. I think it's the beginning of the end of a nation of laws where we have sanctuary cities, where we allow caterpillars and turtles, we protect them, but we don't protect babies. I'm very frightened by this thing.
HOLMES: Well, there's this very extreme sort of philosophical position that if a baby can be regarded as a fetus in its first trimester, that the extremist want to say, it can be defined as a fetus and not a human being up into the point of delivery, maybe even after delivery for a little while.
PIRRO: But how - but after delivery, that is the line in the sand. They cross the Rubicon, the baby comes out and breathes, it's human.
HOLMES: Of course. And unfortunately, I'm here to tell you Judge Jeanine, there are women who do kill their children for selfish reasons. All you have to say is Susan Smith, who she wanted a new boyfriend, so she killed her kids. If you don't know this, just start reading the "Daily Mail." They have a story every day of a woman who does it for really selfish ugly purposes.
PIRRO: But with a doctor's assistance in a clinic with attendants.
HOLMES: You were just talking about Kermit Gosnell. Yes, there are unscrupulous doctors. That was the whole point for legalizing abortion, it was to get it out of the back alleys, right? It was to get it in front of doctors.
PIRRO: That abortion should be safe and rare.
HOLMES: And not unscrupulous doctors who are just there to take the cash and leave the women to bleed in the street. We know that there are doctors who will do this and we know that it's disgusting and it shouldn't happen.
PIRRO: All right, Amy Holmes, good to have you back on "Justice.
HOLMES: Thank you, Judge.
PIRRO: And coming up, another week, another Dem challenger for President Donald Trump. As the list of those vying for the 2020 nomination grows, many are starting to question what the direction of the Democratic Party is headed towards. Charlie Kirk is here to tell us if any stand a chance against President Trump, next.
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PIRRO: The 2020 field of Dems keeps on growing, Tulsi Gabbard jumping in today; Cory Booker yesterday. Do any of these people stand a chance? Turning Point USA, President and Founder, Charlie Kirk joins me now with reaction to that and more. Good evening, Charlie.
All right, let's talk about Tulsi Gabberd and Cory Booker. Who do you want to start with?
CHARLIE KIRK, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: Well, you know, it's - the list just keeps growing. I almost - I'm trying to I'm trying to find a Democratic senator not running for President. But you know what's the commonality between them all? Whether it be Kamala Harris or Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren or Kirsten Gillibrand - none of them are from the Midwest of America and none of them are talking about the values of the heartland of this country.
I mean Tulsi Gabberd? Could you be further away from the Midwest being from Hawaii? But what's the point here is that, as the left gets more radical, they grow closer to their base in Malibu and Manhattan and they just become - they become further away from the Midwestern heartland values that this President represents so courageously.
So to answer your question, I think he's in great position to win reelection in 2020. Look at the economic numbers, I mean, the experts said we're going to enter recession. I don't think anytime soon, absolutely defying all these expectations with record job numbers. Wages are finally going up. And the Democrats from the two coasts are complaining about issues that honestly, the people in Middle America don't have much resonance with.
PIRRO: You know, it's interesting, I heard today and I don't know where I heard it, but it was on television, I heard someone say that Tulsi Gabberd -- it's the biggest insult, I think you could give a politician. They said she's very forgettable. I remember laughing? I said, "Wow, that's like a knife."
But what about Kamala Harris? I mean she had quite a big opening.
KIRK: She had a great crowd. We'll see how she plays in Iowa. Well, we'll see how she plays in the middle part of this country, but look, I mean it's going to be the Trump hating Olympics between every one of these Democrats that have announced. I don't really think they're one fourth of the way through of all these announcements and you had Elizabeth Warren apologize to the Cherokee Nation a couple of days ago and of course, you have the Democratic Governor of Virginia who's in some trouble right now.
So it's a very tough time for Democrats. They're trying to find their identity, while also trying to hate a President who's being immensely successful.
PIRRO: They're trying to hate a President and I've got to tell you, their values are so to the left of what most people with sanctuary cities, porous borders, drugs coming in, I mean, you know, let's protect the caterpillars and the turtles but hey, he hell with the babies if the mother doesn't feel like she wants it after it is born and born alive.
But you know, I thought it was pretty funny that -- I don't want to call her that name, Elizabeth Warren had to apologize to the Cherokee Nation. What a disaster.
KIRK: Right, they are in total shambles here, and this is just a testament to how successful the President is, whether he's delivering peace in the Korean Peninsula, he is abolishing ISIS overseas, the roaring economy. They can't find any sort of message and look, a Democrat is going to have to win in Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina and Florida if they want to win in 2020.
And their abortion stance, good luck. Good luck with your new abortion stance in Iowa. That's all I have to say. Good luck trying to say that you want post birth abortion.
PIRRO: All right, and let's talk finally about the President's State of the Union. How do you think he is going to do?
KIRK: Look he is a prime time clutch player. I call him the Tom Brady of American politics. You know, kind of foreshadowing the Super Bowl tomorrow, you know, everyone says, "Oh he's done." They try to count him out and he comes back time and time again. He is a clutch player. He is going to do wonderful Tuesday and I think Tom Brady is going to do pretty good tomorrow as well.
PIRRO: All right, so let's talk about the Super Bowl. Who is going to win?
KIRK: I've got the Patriots. And look, I am still not over some of those referee calls to tell you the truth.
PIRRO: Yes, a lot of people aren't.
KIRK: My heart goes out to my family and friends in New Orleans. I think they got totally robbed here, but the Patriots, a lot of people hate him. I love success and I love Tom Brady and what he's been able to do.
PIRRO: Well, yes, you've got to give him credit. I don't know. Is it the pajamas? I was reading about his pajamas and we almost bought them. I don't know what's about them. But - so what about the commercials? I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing the commercials tomorrow.
KIRK: It's probably the best part of the whole Super Bowl, right, I mean look, it is pretty amazing. They have millions and millions of views there just on, you know, some of these commercials and you look at unfortunately, I hope they don't get too political tomorrow, Judge.
The one thing I hope and this is the one thing, please, to these commercials while I'm on air, please, don't get too political. I mean, the left has ruined everything else. They tried to run the NFL and it's finally coming back. Please don't ruin the Super Bowl commercials tomorrow.
PIRRO: And you know what the truth, Charlie, you are so right. Americans want to laugh. They want to enjoy the game.
KIRK: Exactly.
PIRRO: They want to root for their team and I'm with you, by the way. Charlie Kirk, we love you. Thanks for being with us tonight.
KIRK: Thank you. You bet.
PIRRO: All right, and we'll be right back.
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PIRRO: Finally, tonight, an important programming note. Tune in this Tuesday to all-day coverage right here on the Fox News Channel leading up to President Trump's State of the Union address, Tuesday night. It should be a history making speech.
And remember, keep up with me throughout the week on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and you may even be able to score a signed copy of my book. Thanks for watching. I am Judge Jeanine Pirro advocating for truth, justice and the American way. Greg Gutfeld is next, and I will see you next Saturday night.
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