Feud between former Vice President Joe Biden and President Trump escalates

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Gutfeld on Biden's tough words for Trump

Former Vice President Biden and President Trump exchange insults amid speculation Biden could challenge Trump in 2020.

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 22, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Melissa Francis -- "The Five."

Well, someone is spoiling for a fight:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: When a guy who ended up becoming our national leader says 'I can grab a woman anywhere and she likes it,' and then said I made a -- I didn't make a mistake, but they asked me would I like to debate this gentleman, I said no. I said if we were in high school, I'd take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That's convenient: a challenge that needs a time machine. I'd kick your butt, if I were in high school. Of course, Trump hits back saying Joe would go down fast, crying. Now, Biden was speaking at a college rally against sexual assault. His message: To urge responsibility for both men and women. But no one cares now because we've got a fight on our hand. Welcome to high school where the big men on campus taunt each other and everyone gathers around to watch. Mind you, the combined age of the combatants is like 150 years. If there's going to be a tussle, you're going to need pallet of Fixodent.

But it's so juvenile. And if I recall, it's always the people who boast of their physical prowess who are the least harmful. I'm pretty sure the last fight Biden was in was over a window seat in first class.

Anyway, it was only a week ago that Dems were fretting over whether they had a fighter among them to match Trump. Jolting Joe headed the call. The problem is it's the least appealing part of Trump's behavior that his lifting and it's so fake. Plus, there's a lot of other good stuff you could steal from Trump: the fun rallies, support for law and order, the strong stance against terror. But to focus on the one thing that most people, including Trump supporters, only really tolerate because of the other good stuff Trump possesses, that's a miscalculation. And it's one Republicans love to see because most people are really bad at being Trump -- except Trump.

All right, Jesse. So what did you make of Joe Biden's tough talk. You think it's authentic or weird?

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: I think it's authentically weird.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: But that's who Biden has always been. He's always kind of been a joke. And he was delegated to be V.P. He was only polling at 1 percent in that primary. And Obama needed a white male with experience in the swamp to, kind of, offset Obama who was fresh and young, and his name looked good under Obama in a bumper sticker. That's it. I mean, the guy was not a consequential V.P. compared to a Cheney or to a Bush 41. And can you imagine, speaking of Cheney, if Cheney had said he was going to take Obama out on the schoolyard and beat him up? I mean, it would be all over the place. But the left can get away with this stuff. The people are saying that Trump cyber bullied the former vice president. I think people need to get over that. This might be his first foray into running for president --

GUTFELD: I think so.

WATTERS: -- in 2020. But I just don't see the Democrats nominating a straight white male. I think they're too handcuffed by identity politics. This is just Joe being Joe. And he lowered himself into the gutter here. And if Biden wants to be a statesman and wants to rise above it and, kind of, be the older guy in the Democratic Party, getting in the gutter with Donald Trump is not good for your brand, and you're going to lose.

GUTFELD: Kimberly, I believe we have tape of Mr. Biden getting ready to challenge Trump. Do we have that tape, anywhere?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Please produce it.

WATTERS: There it is. Bigger wits than Obama.

GUTFELD: Now, the thing is, Kimberly, I was under the impression that Joe was going to be the nice guy. He was supposed to be the opposite of Trump. Trump's the rude and brass guy, and Joe was going to be your --

GUILFOYLE: Uncle Joe.

GUTFELD: Uncle Joe, right.

GUILFOYLE: Because you want fuzzy back rubs --

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: -- massages your shoulders --

GUTFELD: That's right.

GUILFOYLE: -- and sweet nothings. Are we forgetting that?

GUTFELD: We've forgot.

GUILFOYLE: Joe of the midnight swimming.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Those are also part of Uncle Joe, so let's just refresh our recollection. And by the way, do they have -- are those water weights, like empty? One time, a guy did that, I was like, wow, you're lifting a lot. And it was like plastic with water in it. That might have been the case. I would actually put my money on POTUS.

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: For sure I think Vegas would too, right, Jesse?

WATTERS: Yeah. Maybe give him a golf club. I think that might be more effective.

GUILFOYLE: Why are you pleasing Juan this way?

GUTFELD: Juan, that's actually a good idea, a pay-per-view charity fight. You could have an undercard featuring John Kerry and Jim Carrey.

WILLIAMS: I mean, but this is, to me, you know, how low can you go, right? I mean -- so, Michelle Obama said the thing about -- when they go low, we go high. I don't think Joe Biden was following that. But, I mean, this --

GUTFELD: He gets high.

WILLIAMS: In response to the kind of offensive rhetoric that comes from President Trump. And then, don't forget, people thought, oh, you know what? He's going to be presidential. He's going to straighten his act up. He's never straightened his act up. And his response to Joe Biden was to put Joe Biden down, call him Crazy Joe. Oh, Joe this, Joe that. Let me tell you, Joe Biden --

GUILFOYLE: A lot of people do that.

WILLIAMS: That's not fair to Joe. I don't even have to do this. I mean, just go and look at the record. Joe Biden was head of senate judiciary, did a great job there. Widely respected in terms of his foreign policy credentials --

WATTERS: No, he's not, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I'm just going to tell you --

WATTERS: He's not widely respected.

WILLIAMS: He is widely -- I hate to break it to you.

WATTERS: He was against the Bin Laden raid, Juan.

WILLIAMS: That's fine. A lot of Americans think that was a mistake. So, let me just tell you something --

GUILFOYLE: Bin Laden dead?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Iraq.

GUILFOYLE: There's one person living on regret island there and its Bin Laden.

WILLIAMS: No, no. Even in the Bin Laden situation you've got to understand that he, properly, was saying to President Obama, let's be careful about what we're doing. So, I mean, but this is what you guys are doing is trying to belittle Biden, and I just don't think the American people buy it.

MELISSA FRANCIS, GUEST CO-HOST: No, no, no. But, Juan, you're kind of making his point, because Biden is the one that belittled Biden. I mean, all these people that have criticized President Trump for the way he conducts himself, and then they turn around and they need him right down on that level. And they talk about hitting him. And by the way, I mean, this was a rally that was supposed to be about sexual assault on women. And you have Joe Biden out there and he's saying things like, you know, if I had been -- I've been in locker rooms my whole life. I'm a pretty good athlete. The guy that talked that way was usually the fattest, ugliest SOB in the room. I mean, if this how you talk at -- it was supposed to be about sexual assault on women and he goes way off on this tangent.

And by the way, you know, his attitude about the whole -- not everything going on in the Me Too Movement, I don't think is any more welcome by millennials. And he's also stuck in the dark ages, and the idea that so many women look at all this as perpetuating this idea of women as victims? And he's talking about men. You've got to stand up and stop other men from assaulting women. And women, you've got, you know, go out and get your friends and take them back home. I mean, he's in the dark ages with this speech on every single level.

WILLIAMS: I don't think so. I think that, in fact, Democrats are looking for a candidate. As we were talking about, Biden --

FRANCIS: Who's in the dark ages.

WILLIAMS: -- this could be Biden's start for 2020.

GUILFOYLE: They have no one else left, and Hillary is finally going to retire --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But I do think that people on the Democratic side are bolics, confused by the fact that Trump is so combative and he uses such harsh language, condemning language. I mean, he said in response, by the way, he called Biden mentally and physically weak.

GUTFELD: Totally.

WILLIAMS: OK. So, Democrats are looking for somebody who can stand up to Trump. And I think that's part of what Joe Biden is doing is saying, hey, I'm in here. I'm going to fight. And when you talk about women, don't forget the reason that he's saying this is not to insult women. I don't get that point from you because he's saying that when Trump talks about grabbing women anywhere, he thinks it's wrong, offensive. Men do not talk that way in locker rooms. And I think that -- by the way, that's true, Melissa.

FRANCIS: He's talking about that men need to stand up and protect women. And I don't think young women today want Uncle Joe Biden out there protecting them. I think they feel like that they're able to take care of themselves and that's what he's missing. He's saying real men don't do this and real men get out there and protect women --

(CROSSTALK)

FRANCIS: Exactly. It's the same, like you're talking down to women in a way that just misses what they're looking for.

GUTFELD: You know what it is though. You're saying that Democrats are trying to find the feisty counterpart. The problem is, is that -- that's not going to be the solution, because if you try to act -- we saw this with Marco Rubio. If you try to out-Trump, Trump, it's not who you really are. And I think you're like Biden, that -- I don't think that's who he really is when he tries to do this thing. And I think anybody that tries to go agro, tries to do the Trump thing, is probably going to lose because only - - because Trump does it better.

WATTERS: Remember, John Kerry, they nominated him when Bush was running for reelection during the height of the Iraq War, and he played up his Vietnam service even though John Kerry was infamous for denigrating a lot of the Vietnam War veterans when they came home, and saying they cut off ears and said all that horrible stuff. And he went up there and did the reporting for duty. And it just didn't pass the smell test for a lot of Americans. Voters smell inauthenticity. And, like you've said in the beginning, is this really the real Joe? Kimberly hits it on the head, you know, we like Joe because he's the guy on Amtrak, and he's Uncle Joe, and he's all, shucks. And, you know, you want to have a beer with him. The tough guy in the locker room that's going to take Trump out in the schoolyard, it just doesn't -- I don't think people buy that.

FRANCIS: But he's said crazy stuff and gets away with it.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

FRANCIS: I mean, there's that similarity.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: It's like the George Foreman grill, for example. There's really only one. There's been a lot of imitations. A lot of attempts to try to master the George Foreman grill. But POTUS is the George Foreman grill.

GUTFELD: Do you still use your grill?

GUILFOYLE: I love it. Lamb chops, baby lamb chops, steak, whatever you want. Fish, you can put it on. It's fabulous. Puts some vegetable on.

GUTFELD: I think they have a new spokesperson.

WILLIAMS: I think so.

WATTERS: Oh, no. I don't know if that's going to be the food court for me.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: You're not coming to dinner.

WATTERS: I'm not coming to that food court.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: All right. YouTube, the latest front of the gun control debate. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: A Fox News alert. We've got some new information on President Obama's national security director of intelligence, James Clapper, and alleged leaks he made to the media while still in office. Let's bring in chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge. Catherine?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS: Jesse, so earlier today, Republicans on the house intelligence committee posted online broader series of findings from their probe. The official document, about 150 pages, is going for declassification. So what's online now is really the most fulsome view we've had of their findings. And if you go to finding 44 which is on the website, the allegation is that the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, this is a person who oversees all the intelligence agencies and whose primary responsibility is the protection of classified information. They say the following, that he, quote, provided inconsistent testimony about contacts with the media, including CNN. And, of course, he's now a CNN contributor. And based on our reporting, the line of questioning by the committee focused on that Trump Tower briefing in January of 2017, which is when the president was told for the first time about the unverified Trump dossier. As you remember, that briefing was leaked to the media. And that's how we have the dossier story got into the mainstream. The efforts of Fusion GPS in the fall of 2016 to do that, really, had not been successful. But the leaking of the briefing at Trump Tower really accomplished that, Jesse.

WATTERS: All right, Catherine, thank you very much.

HERRIDGE: You're welcome.

WATTERS: All right. So, Kimberly, I mean, if it's Clapper, it's Comey, it's McCabe, all of these top-level officials have seem to have been caught leaking to media, which is illegal when it comes to something like this about an intelligence briefing for the president-elect?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, this of the utmost importance in terms of national security and national intelligence. This is somebody who is in charge. He, actually, oversees as the head of the DMI, all the other intelligence agencies. It's a very important position, obviously, with the coordination between all the agencies, getting all the information from all of them and he has it. This is the guy who had it. So the suggestion here is we need to get more recording on this, because right now they're going through it and declassifying it to find out what else is in there. Is this a suggestion of impropriety, because he then signed later with CNN. This information came out after a meeting. So, is there a nexus that can be made and an argument to say that, perhaps, he was giving out information.

WATTERS: Juan, I think, inconsistent testimony might be a nicer way to saying he lied to investigators, wouldn't you agree?

WILLIAMS: What did he lie about?

WATTERS: The fact that he did or did not leak the dossier to the media --

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: I think this Devin Nunes document only indicates that they think that some of his testimony wasn't forthcoming about contacts with the media. And they then, have now tried to connect the dot to the dossier. Previously, by the way, what I was hearing was, oh, Jim Comey was the one who went to Trump Tower to brief the new president on the dossier. Maybe he did that to set the president up by then, leaking so they -- previously, they were attacking Comey. Now they're attacking -- then they attacked Brennan. Remember, they were attacking the former CIA director? Now, they've gone forward and they're attacking Jim Clapper. President Trump and his cronies are attacking everybody in the intelligence community. They have no evidence. But anytime -- and then they bring up the dossier, which still is not verified but still there, gosh, I wonder if anyone sees a pattern here --

FRANCIS: I see a pattern. I see a pattern in that Clapper is the one that said that the NSA wasn't collecting our data in congressional testimony. I mean, he's the one that said they weren't collecting and saving the metadata and listening in on our phone calls, and then later turned out that the NSA was doing that. So, he'd already had a history of lying in important situations. So, I don't know. It's not a big stretch to think that he once again was lying.

WATTERS: So, Greg, when you hear this about a possible leak by the director of national intelligence to the media about President Trump, about a salacious documents. People say, oh, this is the deep state, again, trying to undermine a duly elected President of the United States. Is that something you would agree with?

GUTFELD: I'm not a deep state guy, as you know.

WATTERS: You're just deep.

GUTFELD: I'm very deep. And I'm often in this state of different -- anyway, this is a ball of collusion. You've heard the sound of ball of confusion? It's a ball of collusion. You wonder why Clapper, and Comey, and Brennan, they all sound like Morning Joe. When they all sound like CNN, and they all sound like Rachel Maddow. It's because this is a self- perpetuating orbit of collusion. They're feeding off their own hysteria. They actually do believe that there is something wrong with Trump. So, in their actions, they are trying to affect, in some way, to get him out of office. Not saying a coup, but this constant feeding frenzy that's coordinated, orchestrated attack. You can see it, because --

GUILFOYLE: Because they think they're doing God's work. They don't want to say God, but that's what they think.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: They're serving a higher purpose with God.

GUTFELD: You hit it on the head. They believe that they have a higher and moral cause. It's therefore, they can do this and it's white. I mean, you talked about a pattern. Every one of these people sounds exactly the same. They sound like they're reading from the same, exact script. It's because they are in, right now, a get Trump out of office cult.

WILLIAMS: But, you, earlier in the week -- not today. You said, you know there's two orbits, there's media, and then there's the deep state -- and go ahead.

GUTFELD: There's the media, and there's -- kind of, Democratic operatives, and they fit perfectly.

WILLIAMS: There you go. And my question to you when you first said that to me was I think you're missing out on one key element --

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- Donald Trump. And that Donald Trump's behavior is enough to alarm people and people to say, hey, what's going on. And don't forget, Trump punches back.

GUILFOYLE: But it doesn't justify leaking and breaking the law.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Devin Nunes is, again --

GUTFELD: Talking about an emotional response.

WILLIAMS: -- unproven allegation against someone who's seen as a Trump adversary.

GUTFELD: What you're talking about is somebody who unsettles people emotionally. That's not against the law.

FRANCIS: But, Juan, do you disagree with the idea that there is a group out there that just feels like is this moral imperative, this calling that they have to try and get Trump out of office because they feel it such a disaster. He shouldn't be president. That it's, sort of, this drumbeat to get rid of him. I think --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I think his popularity is about, you know --

FRANCIS: But is there a group of people --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: -- at 9 p.m. Eastern on "Hannity."

WATTERS: OK.

GUILFOYLE: You'll hear about it.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. But I think 60 to 70 percent of the American people are like, oh, my God, what is going on in Washington? Why is our government --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The stock market going crazy. Why are we on --

GUTFELD: You know what, the stock market went down because of tariffs.

GUILFOYLE: Because of China. The tariffs --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: -- and intellectual property.

WILLIAMS: And meanwhile, his lawyer spleens the coup today. So, I mean, we're just --

WATTERS: According to Juan, Democrats never do anything wrong.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

WATTERS: Ahead, never before seen video of the Vegas mass shooter and the days before he slaughtered dozen. We'll reveal, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's been nearly six months since the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, and we still know nothing about the motive. But we are not gleaning some insight into how the Las Vegas gunmen planned and carried out the massacre. A first look at new surveillance video from the Mandalay Bay Hotel show Stephen Paddock in the days before he shot 58 people dead, it shows the murderer eating and gambling alone in September. The footage also sheds light on how he transported his deadly cargo by duping staff into carrying a stash of deadly weapons to his room. Greg, we've been following this. There's so many people have unanswered questions, very little known about this man, about his background, about the motive, who he is, and who he associated with prior to this murder.

GUTFELD: I mean, this is a testament to the near impossibility of preventing evil when it's married to a plan. I mean, this was -- when you look at this -- I watched the whole thing. It was planned. And part of the plan is to blend in, to be anonymous. And when someone has a plan and you don't have a plan, that person always wins. It's like -- I mean, 9/11 was orchestrated over time. That was a plan. Someone is planning something right now. That's how smart evil works. Evil planners learn from past evil plans. For example, what did you learn from Vegas? You learned a lot from that guy. You learn that death from above works. And this is going to have to change -- no, this is going to have to change the way we think about things. We're going to have to start using drones over events, or we're going to have to start just having more domed events, because this guy gave -- he taught you how to do something horrible. And people -- that's how evil thinks.

FRANCIS: I'm terrified now.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, he just made everyone feel very uncomfortable.

GUTFELD: Sorry about that.

FRANCIS: I am very scared. I mean, you watched him going in with all those suitcases, though. I mean, guided by himself. No one was wondering why is he taking giant suitcase, after giant suitcase, after giant suitcase, after giant suitcase --

GUILFOYLE: Well, maybe, he knew the staff. And they -- you know, because being a regular, and then he would duped them. And so -- hey, OK, carry this one for me, so it wasn't all --

FRANCIS: I hope, I wonder, I think the government may know more about this than they're letting on at this point. I think there has to be a trail of who this guy was associating with before this. And hopefully, they have information on that and we just don't know about it yet, because to be this far in the dark, this long afterwards, after such a horrific event is totally unacceptable.

WATTERS: Yeah. I would agree with both of those statements. He's either an evil genius implanted meticulously, or there's a cover-up going on.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it could be both.

WATTERS: Yeah. I feel like it's a little -- it's a little --

FRANCIS: It's not a cover-up.

WATTERS: Not a cover-up, but here's why. There's so many inconsistencies with the stories. So the security guard wasn't even registered to work the hotel --

FRANCIS: Right.

WATTERS: -- and then drives to Mexico on a leg that he's been just shot in on a rental car, and then comes back and does Ellen. You know, MGM is the biggest moneymaker and the biggest employer of Vegas. We haven't seen the video until months and months afterward. The wife goes overseas, deletes her Facebook page an hour after it happened, not even knowing that it was her boyfriend that did the shooting. The home of the guy was robbed after the shooting. Who's breaking into this guy's home and why wasn't it guarded? It doesn't make sense. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this story --

GUILFOYLE: Do you watch a lot of Jason Bourne movies? That's what it sounds like.

WATTERS: -- something is just off.

GUTFELD: That robbery thing was never -- they never figured that out either.

FRANCIS: That we know of.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Why hasn't a reporter gone and talked to the girlfriend? Why hasn't a reporter gone and talked to the security guard?

FRANCIS: Are you volunteering?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: She was talking to the authorities. She came back then. Remember, they brought her back from the Philippines --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Obviously. But she obviously knew more than she was saying, but you've got to come back over here and talk to us to make sure. Because she could have been charged with being some kind of an accessory before or whatever, co-conspirator. Or depending if she acted in any way to assist him materially. But I don't know. There's a lot more things we need to learn about this.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I will say, what I learned was that if I turn on AM radio at, like, 2 a.m., I'm hoping Jesse is there, because I love these conspiracy theories, and they would keep me up at night. Like Melissa, I would be frightened and I'd think oh, my God. They're coming for me. I better go out and buy a bunch of guns. Or maybe what do you buy on FOX? Gold?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Gold.

WILLIAMS: Buy gold, because everything's going to collapse.

FRANCIS: Don't criticize our sponsors.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

GUILFOYLE: And My Pillow and catheters.

WILLIAMS: Hopefully, I don't need that quite yet.

But anyway, so I didn't learn anything from this video, except it was a little bit spooky to watch this guy. One, I didn't realize how big he was. He was a big man; he's like 6'4" and bulky, obviously. Not fat but bulky.

And the second thing is --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

WILLIAMS: -- he likes sushi. He was at the sushi bar. The sushi bar -- he spent a little more time at the high-stakes poker table. And by the way, I think that's a sign. He is calculating, you know. He's one of those guys who has numbers --

GUILFOYLE: Card counter?

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes. He's figuring things out, and he knows the odds on the high-stakes poker.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he was a professional gambler, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Apparently, he was a winner.

WATTERS: But that's also odd. You don't make money in Vegas gambling.

WILLIAMS: Yes, you can. He made money.

WATTERS: Not a lot of people do.

WILLIAMS: I'm just telling you, there are reasons that some people are successful. And he apparently, by the way, Jesse -- this is on the record -- was successful. It's not that he won every time. Nobody wins every time, but it's how you do over time.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and he had purchased properties in other spots and --

WILLIAMS: So but the one -- go ahead.

FRANCIS: No, no. I mean, I just -- it all points to that we don't really know the truth about this guy. I don't know that we --

WILLIAMS: There you go. But I think in looking at the video and seeing this guy just march around, you think to yourself, "Hmm, what's in his head? Why is he there? What is he doing? And how come we don't know?" But Jesse has so many answers.

WATTERS: Big questions, Juan.

GUTFELD: He's a nihilist. You can be smart and be evil, which is what he was.

GUILFOYLE: It's like a Unabomber type.

GUTFELD: Yes, and it was something -- he has nothing to believe, other than living forever in infamy. He's got it.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUTFELD: He's in the record books.

WILLIAMS: But he's luckily -- he's not Muslim. So I don't know. Are you OK with this?

GUTFELD: That's a really --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Juan, you are an idiot.

GUILFOYLE: OK, word.

All right. Sanctuary revolt. More cities and towns in California rejecting state laws that protect illegals. Next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Welcome back. California became a sanctuary state in October in defiance of the Trump administration. The president wants to crack down on illegal immigration. But some cities and towns there are starting to revolt.

The Los Alamitos council voted this week to opt out of a state law that limits cooperation between local police and the feds. Orange County and the cities of Aliso Viejo and Buena Park are considering doing the same.

Kimberly, a resident of the state along with my man, Greg. But I'm going to go to you first.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but not for taxing purposes. I no longer reside there. Thank you very much. Go ahead.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh.

GUILFOYLE: Don't try and get me looped into some more --

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

GUILFOYLE: The taxes stuff.

WILLIAMS: So this is an interesting kind of dance. You see the state now saying, "We're going to exert our will, but you see some local jurisdictions, in fact some that voted for Trump but closely, others that voted for Clinton saying,, "No, no, we prefer having the deal with the feds with regard to detaining, jailing and --"

GUILFOYLE: Of course. Because it's good business -- business practice for a municipality. Do they want to shoulder all the financial, you know, burden just because, like, the governor doesn't want to follow the law and follow the federal law and wants to act in defiance of it?

Some of these other places are saying, "Wait a second. Leave us out of it. Don't put your mess onto us. We want to follow the law. We want to get the federal funding and money to help with this," because it's incredibly expensive endeavor to try to do all this and process, you know, people who are committing crimes, et cetera, and immigration issues and all the above.

So I think it's smart that they distinguish themselves and show that it's not just one uniform, you know, voice out of California. There's different places and cities that they're saying, "We've had enough of this."

WILLIAMS: Jesse, last time you talked about it you were holding up a poll and saying, "Hey, look, most Californians, most Hispanics," I think you said, "disagree." Now I later found out that was an old poll. But apparently --

WATTERS: Do you mean 2017?

WILLIAMS: I think it was '15. But here you have a situation where that kind of polling would support what you're seeing from these two cities.

WATTERS: Right. So if the governor of California is not going to protect the citizens, the mayors are going to step up and protect their citizens.

I just don't understand, Juan, why you can't keep the illegal alien workers but just get out the illegal alien criminals. What's so hard about that? That is a reasonable compromise that I think most Americans want. We can have sympathy and understanding for people to come here to work, and we can figure out their citizenship later.

But at the time, if you're going to commit a crime, you're going to get sent back and you're going to get reported to ICE, and they're going to lock you up in order to keep the community safe.

Do you want thousands of Kate Steinles in California? I mean, ICE agents are there to protect people. They're there to protect Kate Steinle, and they're also there to protect Hispanics and illegal immigrants. I mean, a lot of illegal alien criminals prey on illegal immigrants. They don't want them there either. So it makes sense, in order to get these people out of there. California is just destroying itself.

WILLIAMS: Well, so Melissa, and then you get, like, personal feuds. We were talking earlier about Biden versus Trump. Now the lieutenant governor out in California, Gavin Newsom, calls the director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement an A+ bad guy.

FRANCIS: Yes, I do love the name-calling. I always think that that's a good idea and a great place to go.

I also think it's interesting when you see mayors in local municipalities saying -- bragging about the fact that they refused to cooperate with the feds. I didn't think you could do that. I mean, I remember learning in civics about the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution. And the fact that the feds are in charge.

I mean, it's -- sure, you want to limit their powers, but when they're out there and they have a law, like something as simple as immigration and they're saying, "Look, when you have somebody in custody who we want, because he needs to be deported, or she, and this is somebody who is in custody because they've broken a law, can you pick up a phone and let us know? We'll stop by and pick them up."

And you have people like our great mayor here in New York City, cutting ads that I've watched in the back of a taxi, where he's bragging that he signed an order that he's specifically not going to cooperate with the feds. I don't know. Living in a city, doesn't make me feel good that my mayor is bragging about the fact that he's not going to cooperate.

WILLIAMS: Greg.

GUTFELD: I think, long-term -- and the sanctuary cities ultimately have to devolve into chaos. Because it's not a plan. Right? And the big hypocrisy is, for a sanctuary city to exist safely, it has to rely on others who don't like sanctuary cities to protect them.

So for a sanctuary city not to devolve into crime and chaos, you need to have ICE and other agents nabbing gang members and deporting criminals. Because -- because if you just let them into the sanctuary city, if you said, "OK, you know, we're with you, we're with you," how long would the sanctuary last? It would turn into "The Road Warrior" in a matter of months.

So your stance, your symbolic stance as a sanctuary city, is a fundamental live, because it is based on other people disagreeing with you and doing the work for you. So we are -- we are a nation of laws, because laws create freedom. If you do not believe that, look at any lawless society, like Somalia. You will have no laws, but you cannot go outside. And that will be the end result.

GUILFOYLE: Anarchy.

GUTFELD: That will be the end result if sanctuary cities continue.

GUILFOYLE: Anarchists.

GUTFELD: You have to have laws.

WILLIAMS: We are in an -- we are in a, you know, a sanctuary city in New York. I live in one in Washington, D.C. Chicago, L.A., San Francisco. I don't see chaos.

GUTFELD: Well, you're not looking.

GUILFOYLE: Depending on the funding. Yes, just to be fair, I just want to say that it was a personal email between between Gavin and his sister Hillary that they were writing back and forth. So I don't know who leaked that or whatever. But anyway, saying this was personal.

GUTFELD: Clapper!

GUILFOYLE: DNI. That's the thing. Very unjust.

WILLIAMS: Very unjust. And you should explain that you know Gavin.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. That's my former sister-in-law, former husband No. 1.

WILLIAMS: Yes, OK. All right. Coming up, the dark transformation of late-night TV in the Trump era. You've got to see this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FRANCIS: So in case you haven't noticed, it is a new era in late-night TV. Jabs have replaced jokes. It's all low blows and cheap shots now at the Trump administration as comedy goes dark.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, ABC'S "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": Melania Trump holding a summit to stop cyberbullying is like Camille Cosby calling a meeting with Benadryl. It's making people woozy.

SAMANTHA BEE, HOST, TBS'S "FULL FRONTAL WITH SAMANTHA BEE": Hope Hicks, thanks to your force field of bland, pretty whiteness, you'll probably escape this nightmare presidency unscathed. You'll disappear into a nice, wealthy anonymity in a nice town somewhere, and someday you'll go to the gates of the nice, white Protestant heaven, where Saint Peter will laugh in your face and say, "Do you think you're getting in here? You helped burn down democracy, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) downstairs."

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": There's nothing funny about a marriage ending, is something I believed until I heard the story story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCIS: I don't know. I was not laughing. But perhaps I'm not the intended audience. You are a funny person.

GUTFELD: Am I?

FRANCIS: So I don't know. I'm told that.

GUTFELD: I love low blows. I love cheap shots, I do. I mean, they're -- yes, it's low-hanging fruit. But the fact is, it wouldn't be so bad if they were consistent. Like, they're only harsh to a certain number -- a certain type of person. So they're -- it's kind of cowardly that they don't go after people that they -- might be on the same side, which takes more guts.

But if only there were a hugely successful cable network who could offer an antidote to this. I don't know who that could be that could, you know, put a show every single night that's is funny late at night.

GUILFOYLE: Wow, what a pitch. What a pitch. You had "Red Eye," you have "The Five." You have "The Greg Gutfeld Show."

WATTERS: How many shows do you want, Greg?

GUILFOYLE: What more do you need?

GUTFELD: I know.

FRANCIS: But Jesse, I mean, we let the ratings rule these situations.

WATTERS: Yes.

FRANCIS: So, you know, if they're doing these jokes and they're getting their ratings, then you know, whatever. It's a free market. Advertisers can advertise. You know, people can watch it or not, and if they get no ratings, then --

WATTERS: I think they're leaving ratings on the table. Like Greg said, they're only going after a certain sector of the audience. They're leaving out Pelosi, Schumer, Biden. There's a lot of material on that side.

GUTFELD: They get their material from Schumer.

WATTERS: That's true. Schumer is feeding them jokes, to Kimmel.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: They could go out for a wider audience like, you know, the olden guys. I wasn't around then, Gutfeld, but --

GUTFELD: Carson?

WATTERS: Carson.

GUTFELD: Jack Paar.

WATTERS: Those guys. Those guys were equal opportunity. And it was actually comedy.

These people are crusaders. And it's just not always funny if the punchline for every joke is "Trump is a jerk." I just think that's lazy and not very creative.

FRANCIS: Juan, I cannot stay awake for these programs and watch them, I have to admit, because I have small people at my house who wake me up very early.

GUTFELD: And children, too.

FRANCIS: So yes. I do not see these shows, but I mean, I suppose someone finds them humorous or else they would not be on the air any longer.

WILLIAMS: I think your munchkins stay up and watch them.

FRANCIS: Really?

WILLIAMS: That's what I've heard. But no, I --

FRANCIS: I'm going to check tonight.

WILLIAMS: I mean, this is -- at some point, you think is it, you know, too much? Like, they're just jumping on the guy, and it's easy material. You know, but I think you come back to they're in the ratings business.

FRANCIS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And guess what? You know, there's a big audience for this. You look at the best-seller list, you know, and the best-seller list is filled with anti-Trump books.

FRANCIS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And these shows apparently -- I mean, Jimmy Kimmel, for example, remember crying over the health care business, crying over his son.

FRANCIS: Yes, yes.

WILLIAMS: I think it's actually helped his numbers.

FRANCIS: So I would say, Kimberly --

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

FRANCIS: -- then why isn't there a late-night conservative comedian?

GUILFOYLE: I mean, Greg hasn't really worked hard enough. I mean, if Greg wasn't such a slacker and underachiever, then he could do something like that.

But they make fun. They do this. When I got divorced the first time, I remember, I was watching -- was it Jay Leno or somebody said that I was getting a divorce and the first lady of San Francisco, and that I was getting, like, the San Francisco Giants and Gavin was getting the 49ers. So that's one example.

FRANCIS: That's pretty funny.

GUILFOYLE: That's a way long time ago. So they weren't making fun of any Democrats or liberals or any -- it's always constant Trump. And, what, Samantha Bee said mean stuff about Hope Hicks. Called her the "B" word. Totally not nice or right or appropriate.

FRANCIS: I didn't think that was funny, actually.

GUILFOYLE: And then Don Jr. and Vanessa and their divorce, also not nice. And then comparing Melania to, like, Bill Cosby. That's not nice either.

GUTFELD: That stuff does --

GUILFOYLE: I don't think it's funny.

GUTFELD: But I mean as long -- I think people, if you can -- here is the - - here's the reality. Nobody likes to hear their side being made fun of. So they're playing to their side. There just isn't the other side yet.

And you know what? Politics is downstream from culture, which is what Andrew Breitbart said. So it is up to us to create that culture.

FRANCIS: OK. All right. There we go.

"One More Thing" up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD (in a British accent): It is time now for "One More Thing" -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: And it's time now for, you guessed it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAPHIC: Kimberly's Royal News

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: "Kimberly's Royal News," indeed. Yes. And in other wedding marriage news, not involving me, invitations for Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's wedding have been printed today, Greg.

GUTFELD: Oh, my God.

GUILFOYLE: Following many years of royal tradition, the invitations were printed at the Barnard and Westwood Workshop in London. They feature the three-featured badge of the Prince of Wales, printed in gold ink.

GUTFELD: Wow.

GUILFOYLE: Golden. Six hundred guests have been invited to the service and a luncheon, which will be hosted by the Queen herself. The royal couple will be married in St. George's Chapel in Windsor Castle on May 19.

WATTERS: You are checking your mailbox every day.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, I just keep checking and refreshing on my e-mails.

GUTFELD: I heard that paper is made of pressed rabbit skull. You know the royalty -- Juan.

GUILFOYLE: Charming.

WILLIAMS: Oh. Well, this one's for Jesse, because Jesse, I want you to have some news from the left. Liberals are worried about the health of the nation's oldest Supreme Court justice, 85-year-old Ruth Bader Ginsburg. So Stephen Colbert decided to check out how she stays in such good shape. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLBERT: Do you ever listen to music, to get all jacked up before you work out?

RUTH BADER GINSBURG, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I listen to mostly opera recording.

COLBERT: OK. Can I recommend a great workout song? I think you might enjoy this one. This.

(MUSIC: MONTELL JORDAN'S "EVERYBODY (GET DOWN)")

GINSBURG: Let's shut it off.

COLBERT: No?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: See what you did to Greg.

WILLIAMS: She wanted him to turn it off. By the way, the Notorious R.B.G. has no plans on retiring any time soon.

FRANCIS: OK.

WATTERS: Would you feel that way if she was Muslim?

WILLIAMS: I don't know. I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: All right. It is time for --

GUILFOYLE: Greg's --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAPHIC: Greg Sushi News

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: "Greg Sushi News." Now I am not a fan of sushi, as you know. I hate the raw fish, except this new fish looks delicious. Check out this fish. Beautiful -- it is actually made -- why isn't it moving.

GUILFOYLE: Is that a robot?

GUTFELD: Yes, it should be moving. There you go.

It's made of silicone, rubber, flexible plastic. It's an MIT creation, and it swims around, Kimberly and videos other fish. Essentially, it's a pervert fish.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's a fish drone.

GUTFELD: It's a pervert fish. It invades people's privacy.

WATTERS: It's taking the jobs from real fish.

GUTFELD: Exactly. Exactly.

WILLIAMS: I think it's an illegal, invasive species.

It beats that dog that was slipping on the bananas last week, that's for sure.

GUTFELD: That is true.

GUILFOYLE: Wait, what?

FRANCIS: I'm confused.

WATTERS: The two most popular senators in the U.S. Senate, Jeff Flake and Cory Booker, had a duel in the snow -- check this out -- throwing snowballs at each other.

GUILFOYLE: That's called a snowball fight.

WATTERS: Yes, a snowball fight. That's what I said.

GUILFOYLE: You said a duel.

WATTERS: Well, it was pegged as a duel. Look at him roll. Look at him roll.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

WATTERS: And now, you know, he has a little bit of an advantage. He's from New Jersey. Flake has probably never seen snow.

GUTFELD: He's a snow Flake.

WATTERS: Yes, he's a snow Flake.

FRANCIS: Well played.

WATTERS: Yes, nice job passing some spending bills -- actually, I mean, throwing snowballs.

FRANCIS: Yes, hard at work.

GUTFELD: That's the kind of bipartisanship we can really get behind.

WATTERS: Yes. We like these guys.

GUTFELD: I don't. But anyway.

Melissa.

FRANCIS: All right. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDEN CORTS, KINDERGARTNER: Take a look at today's weather in Nashville using our new weather simulator. All I have to do is click this button. So cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: That's cute.

FRANCIS: Oh, it was very cute.

OK. That is Carden Corts. He is a kindergartener from Nashville. This was his kindergarten project, Kimberly. We are really not helping our kids enough with their projects. Supposedly, this was his kindergarten assignment. I'm sure he did it all on his own, but it was sponsored by Pokemon cards, he said, which is something he loves without doubt. But this is pretty creative. Look at this.

GUILFOYLE: He's a future. Jesse, are you off any days coming up?

FRANCIS: I was thinking he was a threat to Janice Dean, but I think he's a threat to one of these two on either side of me.

GUTFELD: Must not be happy when -- "Oh, a kid can do your job."

WATTERS: Yes. Sounds like a global warming alarmist to me.

GUILFOYLE: He could fit in your suits, Greg. It would be perfect.

GUTFELD: Oh!

FRANCIS: Oh!

GUILFOYLE: You said you like low blows.

GUTFELD: I'll give you that one.

All right. All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report," Chris Wallace next.

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