Ferguson on edge ahead of grand jury announcement

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 24, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: This is a Fox News alert. Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle and a grand jury in Missouri has reached decision on whether to indict Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson for the August shooting death of 18-year-old, Michael Brown. An announcement is expected to come at any moment.

Let's go live to Fox News Steve Harrigan, the very latest you'll find, the justice center in Clayton. Steve?

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Kimberly, crowds really eagerly awaiting this announcement, this grand jury of 12 people has been working behind closed doors for the past three months, ever since the August shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Now, within the next couple of hours we expect an announcement, whether or not they find a reasonable, to bring criminal charges against Officer Darren Wilson. Now back in August, we did see some violent unrest and large scale protests. The real question is what's going to happen now after that announcement. It's three months later, both sides have been meeting together, protesters and law enforcement. The temperature is certainly very different as well, down in the 30s today. Will we see the large scale protests? Certainly law enforcement has been bracing for that, we seen barricades set up of a public buildings, government buildings really blocked off, and a real tension in the air. Businesses is once again boarding up and when you talk to people on the street, a real sense of fear, of what could happen following this announcement. Announcement we expect within the next two hours, Kimberly, back to you.

GUILFOYLE: All right, thanks Steve for that update. And this weekend, Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani got a heated exchange over policing in black communities on Meet the Press with Georgetown Professor Michael Eric Dyson, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: I find it very disappointing, that you're not discussing the fact that 93 percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks. We're talking about the exception here.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, GEORGETOWN PROFESSOR: First of all, no black people who commit crimes against other black people go to jail. Number two, they're not sworn by the police department as an agent of the state, to uphold the law. So, in both, both cases that's a false equivalency that the mayor has drawn, which is exactly been detention that are deeply embedded in the American cult (END VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: It's the reason, it's the reason.

DYSON: It's not like this.

GIULIANI: White police officers won't be there if you weren't killing each other.



DYSON: Have work in your time.

TODD: Wait.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Rudy appeared on Fox and Friends this morning, to defend his stands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GIULIANI: I probably saved more black lives as mayor of New York City than any mayor in the history of the city. I'd like to see if any of the Dr. Dyson has ever saved as many lives in his community as I have saved. The danger to a black child in America is not a white police officer. That's going to happen less than 1 percent of the time. The danger to a black child, if it was my child, the danger is another black.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So he's speaking from his perspective and considerable years of experience not only as mayor of New York City, but as a former prosecutor and working very closely with law enforcement in the streets of New York. Eric, what's your take?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: My take is, Bob, you're huffing and puffing a little bit that, that Mayor Giuliani would say something like that, but -- the facts are, the numbers spare him out, that black on black crime is the majority -- black men and women are dying at the hands of other black men and women at an alarming rate, 90 something percent, I believe he said in New York City. Professor Dyson, and we must that term lucid -- it did something unbelievable, I'm not sure if we caught that in the sound bite or not, but he actually said something about white supremacy and Rudy Giuliani, at the end of that sound bite. If we didn't pull, we -- go, go listen to it, it was most agreed to uses of race baiting (ph) I've heard in a long time, maybe ever. Giuliani's point was, he put more cops on the street, he cleaned up Times Square, he took the crime off the street and when at 90 percent of the crime plus is black on black, you're reducing the crime against black people. That's his point.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: You know he also closed my favorite massage parlor in Times Square. But.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Ah, the raggedy (ph)


GUILFOYLE: Is that why you're so cranky.

BECKEL: I'm not cranky at all.


BECKEL: What are you talking about? You make me cranky, it won't take long, but listen, but the thing probably with Giuliani said is, white police would not be there if they weren't killing each other. Then was what that all about?

GUTFELD: I can explain it.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, Greg.

BECKEL: Then explain it to me.

GUTFELD: Because, Professor Dyson says, that when the police are in a city, he calls it an occupying force. But when you apply that logic, you would remove that occupying force, and what do you have? Is a community that is beseeched by crime, the police are there to fight -- to protect good from the bad, that is their role. They don't want to be there and cause problems, which is why, I mean, when Rudy Giuliani talks about a fund in creating a force that reflects the community that helps. The problem in place like Ferguson, -- if they can't find enough applicants to be police officers in their own community, so you have a police department that doesn't look like Ferguson and it happens in other cities as well. In the 1990s, this New York City averaged 40 homicides a week, many of those victims were minorities. In 2014, there were weeks when there wasn't a single murder in New York. So that means now in 2014, those not being killed were minorities, so when Giuliani says, that he's saved more lives than Dyson, he's making a factual statement. He is right, the police force has done for more minorities than any liberal program on the planet, by simply letting them live, so it's an actual fact what Giuliani said. And Dyson calling the police an occupying force, creates an idea that it is a presence that needs to be removed.


GUTFELD: So what will Dyson's -- what is Dyson's solution? Will Dyson go on the street and protect those businesses and those innocent families?

BECKEL: Well, I mean, I don't know Dyson and I don't particularly interested in what he had to say there. But I will say this, that most of the murders in the black on black -- is drug related.


BECKEL: Heavily drug related, it's gang related and -- they're right, I mean the numbers are right, 97 percent of blacks kill blacks. But, I'm not sure I understand yet, what the connection here is with Ferguson.


BOLLING: Here Bob, No, it was really -- they were talking about Ferguson, and they were talking about black crime.

BECKEL: I know but.

BOLLING: So, if you reduce crime and 90 percent of the victims are black, are you not reducing black -- crime on black people?


BOLLING: Rudy said that's what he said, and that exactly what he did. It's not that -- it was then outrageous and for Dyson and go ahead and say, you have some sort of white supremacy mentality to Giuliana. Giuliana is absolutely as nine (ph) it's, it's not eve -- I mean, black people in New York should be thrilled that Rudy Giuliani did what he did. Not angry with Dyson is somehow friendly turn into an anger thing, it wasn't.

GUILFOYLE: Dana. PERINO: I think that, one of the things we have been talking about over the past several years, are races is almost a topic daily on this program, but probably because, that's in the news, and people are stalking it, but it's also a real issue we have to talk about. There's no question that safer communities are more successful communities, how do u you get to a safe community? First of all is security, and you got to look at education, marriage rates, employment and public service. All of those things matter and in a place like Ferguson -- tonight, I hope that they can get through whatever the decision is, and a peaceful way, understand that there are people are going to be unhappy no matter what happens. I am surprised Kimberly, that they are making this announcement so late in the day -- I mean, it will be after dark, I don't know why, maybe there's a good reason for it. I don't understand why they wouldn't have made it very early in the morning and let people assemble then in the daylight. I think that might, probably would have been better.

BECKEL: That is exactly right, most of all that's rioting that took place, took place at night. If we remember, and under the cover of dark is one, people who is outside that community convene and agitate. I've been very curious to see, I mean, people are down there, to a hiding out,


BECKEL: Ready to jump in the middle of -- you have nothing to do at first.

GUILFOYLE: Perhaps, criticism (pg) with that's made.

GUTFELD: Well that.

GUILFOYLE: And so this is why the timing is such.

GUTFELD: There -- are four elements in this conflict, there are legitimate protesters, who sincerely believe that there's an injustice and they should be out there and that their voices should be heard. There's law enforcement that have to respond in case there's any trouble, their concern business man that are out there, better businesses that are afraid that maybe they might lose something, and they have. And then there's the fourth group, which is their specifically to get those other three groups to destroy each other. These are radicals that know the path to anarchy is, is, by creating racial conflict. They don't care about Ferguson, they don't care. They are just there to inflame, so that they can have their revolution, and this is happening again and again with these outside groups coming in. The sad part about is, is -- that does hurt legitimate protesters who really do care, and law enforcement who makes mistakes and who does (ph) care as well.

BOLLING: Can I add a fifth group? Average citizens, probably 90 percent of the people in the area are the averages who don't own a business, who aren't law enforcement, and who aren't going to protest tonight, they're just sitting there waiting, they're -- just waiting by the door, praying that -- you know, evil doesn't convert (ph) right? GUILFOYLE: And you have people who are taking advantage of the situation that they are coming here in from the outside to stir the (inaudible)

BOLLING: Yeah, absolutely.

PERINO: Can I ask Kimberly something from a legal stand point? So, Steve Harrigan reported, and he been reporting on Fox News. The grand jury has been meeting for about three months, in your experience as a prosecutor that -- is that an average amount of time to present evidence in a case like this? And has it gone on longer than you expected?

GUILFOYLE: No, actually I think this is taken about the amount of time that I would expect, you know, given some of the complexities of this particular case, and the different forensic report and request from a criminologists as well. So, let's see what happen, they don't just hear one taste at a time.

BECKEL: Yeah, if it says they take a multiple case.

GUILFOYLE: Right. There's multiple cases so, in addition you have this case and they take them all and give them appropriate time.

BECKEL: I got a question for you Kim.


BECKEL: So as well. I think that Ferguson's -- the family's lawyer made a good point when he said, for 20 years, a prosecutor has not go in there and like, this guy said, I'm not going to take a position, no, if we are not taking in the position. Here's the evidence, usually always prosecutors go in and say, we want an indictment, right? But he's not doing that, and why is this?

GUILFOYLE: Well you can go. At the end, you can make a summation and give your side of it, and say, this is what we think, you know, the evidence is shall be we put up to the grand jury. I mean, I don't know if he knows exactly what went on in there because, it's -- you know, secret proceeding, so I'm not sure where he's coming from in that regard. But nevertheless, they also, when they get their verdicts, they run through that, that's anonymous as well, so other people may not now on the grand jury, exactly how is going to go down. And then, of course it's has been also and the person who is the target of the grand jury will also be allowed to opportunity to present any evidence if they choose.

BECKEL: But the prosecutors go in there and say, we think this is enough evidence suspects.

GUILFOYLE: And the grand jury is out there, we go forward, you bring it, but I don't tell them, I think you should come back and give a second- degree applied malice or what -- what I did might -- last one that I did before I left the DA's office, that I'm on the case, I think I win there, to I think you should find for second-degree entry. Here's all the facts, here's the evidence, these are the charges available to you. Grand jury came back and asks for a second-degree instruction, because they felt the evidence frost out.

GUTFELD: I mean, you got to have -- have sympathy for a jury when -- the specter of rioting is use as leverage. That you know that perhaps, if you make the right decision, you'll create hell and maybe you should make the wrong decisions to save lives. And it's disturbing in a country of 317 million people, where thousands of crimes are committed every day. The media put its -- put's his collective magnifying glass, right here, in this small town and you know when you put a magnifying glass on something, underneath things burn. Because it's a self fulfilling prophecy, the more people that go there, it's a snowball, it builds velocity and mass. And there's no way the media -- there's no way that anybody wants to slow it down, because they have too much invested in this event.

BOLLING: And yeah, who -- are probably at the cross hairs of all this bad, bad term, I shouldn't have used that, who were -- the middle of all these are the cops. The country realizes a violence brace up. Protest is right -- a protest is protective in the constitution, peaceful protest. But when it goes beyond peaceful protests, they have to step up. Bit with all the media attention that the cops are getting in Ferguson. Boy, are we tying one hand behind their back? Because if they seen something that they should be doing and they're going to say, why wait, there's going to be interpreted the wrong way and they let something go, they have the toughest jobs of anyone one tonight.

GUILFOYLE: It's just like the military with the rules of engagement now.

BOLLING: Right, yes.

GUILFOYLE: That have been so hampering their ability and they're second guessing themselves.

BECKEL: Listen, let's also keep in mind that a large percentage of the black community person may have their minds. I don't care what the grand jury, what this grand jury is going to do. They decided that they thought it was murder. I mean.

GUILFOYLE: We can so, many help the people respect the process and understand that, that it was put forward to a grand jury for them to decide based on all the facts and evidence, and none of us here, at this table are really out there have it, the grand jury had it all for them so, let's hope the people respect the process. And once again, a decision has been reached by grand jury on the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson and we're expecting an announcement very shortly. So please, stay with us.

Coming up next, an unexpected resignation from a top member of the president's cabinet today, was defense secretary Chuck Hagel forced out? We're going to tell you what our sources are telling us, that's ahead.


PERINO: Today, a surprise announcement from a key member of the president's National Security team. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel on the job, only since 2013 is resigning, behind the scenes the White House is making sure that everyone knows he was fired, but this is what President Obama said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Chuck has been an exemplary defense secretary, providing a steady hand as we modernize our strategy and budget to meet long-term threats while still responding to immediate challenges like ISIL and Ebola. Last month Chuck came to me to discuss the final quarter of my presidency and determined that having guided the department through this transition, it was an appropriate time for him to complete his service.

It's been the greatest privilege of my life, the greatest privilege of my life to lead and most important to serve, to serve with the men and women of the defense department and support their families. I am immensely proud of what we have accomplished during this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: At the press briefing, Josh Earnest would not answer if Hagel was forced out. But Fox -- authorities tell Fox, tension was brewing between Hagel and White House staff over Syria and ISIS policy, and one senior official tells Jennifer Griffin, make no mistake, Hagel was fired. And in fact, Kimberly, that background quote making sure that all of us knew that follow this kind of thing, that he was forced out, that this was not a decision he made himself. Actually came before, Chuck Hagel, as went about two hours before, he went to the White House to have the president say that to his face.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, who wants to sign up to work for someone like that. I mean, this is the mistreatment, this lack of respect and dignity. It's just to me it is very appalling and the messaging all over the place. What I do think was nice that came out of today, was the support that Senator John McCain showed the secretary in his statement that he issued that I think gives really at the back story. This is basically, it comes down to the fact that everybody, that even preceded, Hagel felt that we needed a certain amount of troops and military strength, in a lot of its throttling back and all this situation that we face across the world right now, and most especially with ISIS and in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, all of the across the board. And he disagreed with the president on that, and you listen to actually the military that are all on the ground and the people who are in charge and they give you advice, and you heed that advice, and it just not concur with the president wants to you once you're up, he doesn't want to hear it.

PERINO: Well and he, Eric, he didn't go into the job with the strongest footing, he was confirmed by the senate only 58 to 41, though he was confirmed that he had a bad hearing going in. There had been -- sourcing out of the department of defense saying that the management wasn't quite up to speed and so now, you have this today, the timing that is interesting because, the secretary of defense is one of the big cabinet posts and the president also has a hearing that he'll have to get through for Loretta Lynch, the attorney general nominee. Might there be others too, that all -- is all coming at a very interesting time as a congress changes a thing.

BOLLING: Yeah, I think that's a lie -- has to do with this. So you've got - - the Democrats and President Obama got their butts work in the midterms. And so what's the first thing that goes? The only Republican cabinet secretary, that's, that's left, there he goes, out the door. Think about of this for a second though, Gates quit, Panetta quit, Hagel quit, three secretary of defense quitting, then you have Shinseki who was force out. You have Sibelius who may or may not have been forced out. Steven Chu, the energy secretary, said he wishes gasoline was $8,000 a gallons, so we get more -- fuel efficient. He got -- thrown out of there, Lisa Jackson got thrown out, maybe Geithner got thrown out, we're not sure about him either. I mean, who's picking these cabinet secretaries? President Obama is, a good leader picks good people to surround himself around and -- a good leader wouldn't lose this many high level cabinet members.

GUILFOYLE: So he's the puncher and chief.

PERINO: What do you think Bob? You think this comes at a bad time for the White House?

BECKEL: Yeah I do. And I don't know why they're being so proud of the fact that they're pushing him out.

PERINO: Great, right?

BECKEL: I mean, the last thing that they need right now is a hearing, a confirmation hearing for a new secretary of defense, and look at all the issues around the world, they going to be pick the part from -- you just name it, and I think you going to have -- whoever that persons going to be -- can let's just face it, Americans don't care who the secretary of defense is, they couldn't tell you the secretary of defense is. And by the way, this turnover generally is not unusual after the last midterm at six year, but I -- the problem I got this, I would think some of this people are going to make it through, or they going to stole it.

GUILFOYLE: But this is a lot.

PERINO: Well that is.

BOLLING: And those weren't six years, Bob, those were in the last three or four.

BECKEL: Right, right, right.

PERINO: Back in August when the ISIS threat really became very obvious, in the same week, President Obama was -- had referred to ISIS as JV, and Secretary Hagel was on the hill testifying that he thought it was the most serious threat around the world and I think that's probably where the tension probably boiled over.

GUTFELD: What you get -- I get the impression that it's not, it's not Hagel, but it's a White House that doesn't see foreign policy as a priority. Secretary of defense is no more important than a greeter at Walmart to them. When your bosses aren't care about what you do then ultimately neither do you, you lose interest. And for the president, domestic policy has always been his foreign policy, he looked at America as the troubled adversary that needs to be contained, America was USSR in the cold war for him. So, that's why he -- that's his foreign policy and somebody like Hagel, is this kind of like a non-entity, it's not a big deal to him, go away.

BOLLING: You point out something -- do you remember the hearing that Hagel gave just after President Obama with the JV and then there was a beheading, I think it was right after a beheading. I just remembered it when you said that, Hagel was very dismissive of what the president said.


BOLLING: He almost seen angry that the president had taken ISIS so lightly. And I remember rolling that sound bite, it's that's right? Maybe that is something, maybe Obama.


PERINO: Well, I also heard that the Charlie Rose interview that Secretary Hagel recently gave was kind of the final straw. Also, I would point out, if you're looking in the story, if you need a clue, as to where somebody on background would ever get the phrase, make no mistake -- Secretary Hagel was fired, who in the administration says make no mistake all the time.

BECKEL: Do you know one of the things is this is a reflection of National Security team in the White House. If you've got a good National Security team, things work well, and if you don't, the secretary of state and the secretary of defense are out there on their own. And I think that's fairly fact of this.



PERINO: While we wait of the nominee. OK. We're awaiting an announcement as well on the grand jury decision on whether to indict Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson for the shooting of Michael Brown. Greg and Cesar will join us ahead, and also the results are in from a congressional investigation on Benghazi, and there's something glaringly missing in the findings, Greg got that next.


GUTFELD: Thousands tells us its committee found no wrong doing in the response to the 2012 Benghazi attack. But you can see that the White House wrongly blames the terror attack on an anti Muslim video. So, while the reporter claims there was no Intel failure, it says, there was an Intel failure, my head hurts. So, why do Rice, Obama and Hillary blame that flick, anyway? Were they Grubering? Thinking Americans were dumb enough to believe anything, or did they truly believe Islam weren't that fault and that a video was to blame. If so, to blame physical evil on words or art scares me. Seriously, we arrested somebody for exercising the right of free speech, so the White House could cover themselves politically. When people attack us, normally we blame the attackers, but here, we blamed art, maybe architecture was at fault for the World Trade Center attack, who knows? That's the crime, a moral failing of an administration obsess with blaming the west, but the right got greedy with conspiracy. They put Fritos on a pizza when they should have kept it simple. Argue within your ability to explain and your listener's ability to understand. Exposing the Islamaphobia, phobia coming from our own leaders would have been enough. So, now media hoax tackle (ph) thrilled that one in power got nailed, forgetting that a country was misled and that a filmmaker was jailed, all the president's men was once the name of a book, but now, it describes the media.

I'd still, Dana, incredible that a guy was put in jail, and he wasn't a great guy, he violated parole, we get that, but he was put in jail and there was no outcry from the media except for here.

PERINO: And the -- undercover of night, there you have them on the video screen I'm looking this way but.

GUTFELD: Who said yell the man?

PERINO: This is the thing that always bothered me. When, when this happened, it was on a Friday night, it was on Saturday morning, I remember like it was yesterday, send an e-mail to you saying that, this can't be possibly be happening in our country. If his bank fraud probation violation was so egregious, why wasn't it he arrested the day before?


PERINO: Why would they wait until the night, because they needed something, and I can't believe that anybody actually allowed that to happen?


PERINO: I'm glad the report came out, I do think that the federalist does an amazing job, go to the federalist.com and look at 20 points that were missed in this report. It actually makes this report look a little weak.

GUTFELD: Eric, that we try -- what's funny is you see a gleeful liberal media who used to salivate over corruption.


BOLLING: Gleeful liberal media.


GUILFOYLE: Bob Beckel.

BOLLING: ... all week long with the Benghazi e-mails.

You remember the six guys that Megyn Kelly had on her show?


BOLLING: Who said they were unequivocally told to stand down? Two people died after they were told to stand down.


BOLLING: See now, here we go, Bob. I believe those guys. I believe those guys more than I believe a report that some people who weren't there are putting together based on some second- and third-hand information.

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.

BOLLING: Also, four people -- Stephens, Woods, Smith and Dougherty -- are dead, and still to this day when you see President Obama and Hillary Clinton, then Secretary of State Clinton standing over those draped coffins with the family members at Edwards Air Force Base, blaming the video, knowing very well -- in hindsight, we know they knew very well it had nothing to do with the video. They knew it had nothing to do with the video. I don't care what report comes out, that's absolutely atrocious.

BECKEL: Can we -- can we -- the question about the video is still very pertinent here, and Greg wants to get this on this thing for months. And he'll get (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

But the fact of the matter is, around this time, a lot of these allegations were made about standing down. This is a Republican intelligence committee. They're the ones who issued this report. They have taken all of your conspiracy theories and thrown them in the trash.

BOLLING: Bob, there were six guys. I didn't make the comment. Those six guys did. They sat there and said, "We were told stand down."

"Who gave you the order?"

"A guy named Bob."


GUILFOYLE: That was directly -- that was directly tied into the CIA. Why would they, Bob? Because you have to come up with some kind of conspiracy theory on your own that these guys would all get together in the middle of a terrorist attack and decide to conspire to say that they were told to stand down. It doesn't make any sense.

BECKEL: Why would the Republican intelligence committee come up with that finding?

GUILFOYLE: Because this report is so thin and so inadequate; it is woefully inadequate. It's not accurate as what happened.

BECKEL: You guys can't take -- you guys can't take one beef (ph), can you? You can't beat up Obama on everything.

GUILFOYLE: But it's not about Obama. It's about the truth.

BECKEL: This was -- and the truth came out in that report. And you just...

GUILFOYLE: You just try to throw his name out as some kind of justification.

BECKEL: It's just...

GUILFOYLE: Just like you said it had nothing to do with al Qaeda. Yes, right. This was a concerted terror attack, people from different countries, al Qaeda, al Sharia together doing this. And why did they push the video if they knew that they weren't up to something?

BECKEL: Stand down. I have plenty of answers.

GUILFOYLE: You don't.

GUTFELD: Dana, did you have something you wanted to say?

PERINO: Um, can you beat it (ph), is what I asked.

GUTFELD: Good point. All right, we're going to move on. Ahead the, grand jury's decision on the Ferguson police officer who shot Michael Brown is in, and we're awaiting that announcement.

Next, a TV host is professing his love for Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber.

Plus, one of the greatest catches of all time, and I'm not talking about Bob. He's a catch. Stay tuned.


BOLLING: All right. Welcome back. Time for...



GRAPHIC: The Fastest 7


BOLLING: ... the fastest 6 1/2 minutes on television. Three zesty stories, seven zippy minutes, one zealous host.

First up, did you see "Saturday Night Live," the spoof of the Obama executive action overriding the Constitution? It was hilarious.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): And if I pass the legislative branch, then I wind up on the president's desk. And I -- ow!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Obama, what's the big idea? That bill was trying to become a law.

JAY PHAROAH, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": I realize that, but you know, son? There's actually an even easier way to get things around done here.

BOBBY MOYNIHAN, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" (singing): I'm an executive order and I pretty much just happen. I'll create a national park or a new holiday.

PHAROAH (singing): Or grant legal status to 5 million undocumented immigrants.

MOYNIHAN: What? Oh, my God, I didn't have time to read myself. Whoa!


BOLLING: Well, that didn't sit well with mainstream media. Immediately The Washington Post actually fact checked the comedy skit. So you've got to ask yourself, how far are these liberal media outlets willing to go to protect their emperor -- Greg.

GUTFELD: The Wash Po fact-checked an "SNL" skit. Strange. But you know what? You know, this is all -- It's funny and everything, but he already won. It doesn't matter. It's like poking fun at Trump for being rich. He's a billionaire. It's not like he's going to be poor because you're making fun of him. You won.

What's the deal, like, when they made the joke about reading the bill, it would have been nice to make that joke during the Obamacare debates.

BOLLING: Yes, yes. OK, so he won. We've got the comedy. We get that out of the way, but I'm shocked to see to the Washington Post do that.

PERINO: It just seems to me like maybe that somebody needs more to do on a Saturday night than doing a fact check of a "Saturday Night Live" skit.

GUTFELD: Ooh, somebody's got a social life.

PERINO: Yes. Like, as I was up subscribing (ph) to commercial breaks.


PERINO: What a big weekend.

The other thing is, I love "Schoolhouse Rock," but that is a Generation X video. I mean, if you don't -- millennials, if you don't know Schoolhouse Rock, you should go on. You can entertain yourself for hours.

GUTFELD: On a Saturday night.

GUILFOYLE: I learned so much from that Schoolhouse Rock. I thought this was funny and yes, it would have been nice if they had done it during Obamacare.

BECKEL: That's the worst skit I think I've ever seen. It's no wonder that "Saturday Night Live" has been getting bad ratings.

BOLLING: Can we move on? Yes, we can move on. We always complain that "SNL" -- fine. Next on "The Fastest Seven," Bill Maher took some heat for going against the liberal grain on radical Islam. This week he's dug further into the hole he's been shoveling, Mr. Maher agreeing with Obamacare architect Jon Gruber that all of us are stupid.


BILL MAHER, HOST, HBO'S "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": I agree. And I've heard nobody else in America say that. Everybody on the left and the right, "Oh, how could he call Americans stupid?"

Jonathan Gruber, you have met your soul mate.

How this is even controversial I have no idea.

They're stupid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gruber was right.

MAHER: Gruber was right. He just said what people don't want to hear.


BOLLING: Oh, boy. Gruber's right, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think Americans are stupid. I think we get it, and I think in 2016, perhaps some better choices are going to be made. And they should be. There should be choices that people make based on decision making that is based on information. So equip yourself with the facts so you choose correctly, because there are long-lasting ramifications.

BOLLING: Bob, half the country is against Obamacare. The other half are Democrats. And Democrats voted for it; therefore, Democrats must be stupid.

BECKEL: Well, no. Listen, when you have almost 60 percent of the eligible voters in America not voting, let's not jump all over -- it was a bad choice of words, but the American people do not stay keyed into these debates for the most part. Some people do. We do because it's part of our living, but out there, do you think they pay a lot of attention to this stuff? No. That's why a lot of things get true. The Republicans are not paying attention to it.

PERINO: I actually think people pay a lot of attention, I think it had a lot to do with the turnout and the election decisions in 2010 and 2014 but also 2012. And President Obama won.

When Maher says Gruber was right, he just said what people didn't want to hear. I think it would be refreshing to actually just tell people there's no such thing as a free lunch, we think this is better for the country, premiums are likely to go up, you might not get to keep your doctor, your deductibles are going to go up, your prescriptions might cost more, but we think it is the best thing to do. Your taxes might go up. And then let people just decide that, based on...

GUTFELD: The amazing thing is, these elitist creeps were insulting their studio audience. No one who was critical of Obamacare in the town hall was tricked by this. It was only the fools who clapped at this elitist crap that were tricked by this. I actually find that kind of heartwarming to see him insult this audience and they don't even know it.

PERINO: And they clapped.

GUTFELD: And they clapped.

BOLLING: And they laughed, and Chris Matthew goes, "Oh, yes."

GUTFELD: Yes, yes.

BOLLING: Bob wanted to get to this. The New York Giants are having a terrible year. It got worse last night with a loss to a division rival, Dallas Cowboys. There was a bright spot, however. Check out this catch by rookie Odell Beckham Jr. Some are saying this is the best catch ever.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Manning is going to heave one. Oh, there's a flag. Beckham with a one-handed catch. How in the world?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my goodness.

And Brand Matera was back there. He is insane. How do you make that catch?


BOLLING: LSU fans say that's what's Odell's been doing for years down in Baton Rouge. In fact, someone sent me -- they sent me a vine of him doing the same thing.

BECKEL: I tell you, the thing that's amazing about that is you have to keep in mind, this guy -- he touched the ball and flipped it backwards. Right? I mean, it came off his hands and then he reached back behind him and got it on the second try. I mean, that kind of athleticism, I've never seen anything like it. I just think it's just remarkable.

GUTFELD: He didn't just -- did he tiptoe?

BECKEL: I think he did. I think he did.

BOLLING: He just plucked it out.

GUTFELD: I don't know, though. Were you there? No, you weren't, so how you know this really happened? How do we know this is not just a bunch of crisis actors hired by President Obama to deflect his next executive order, which is to make him get a third term. This never happened.

BOLLING: It probably happened in the NASA parking lot.

GUILFOYLE: You're missing the whole point of this because women across the country are going, my God, what hands.

BOLLING: What hands.

GUILFOYLE: What hands.?

PERINO: That is exactly what we're thinking, Kim.


BOLLING: What hands?

PERINO: I guess. Is that what I'm supposed to be thinking?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. What you're supposed to be thinking.

BOLLING: Now, if they could just win the darn game. Next on "The Five," the grand jury in the Ferguson case has reached -- during a game -- reached a decision, and Greta Van Susteren is joining us in just a minute. Stay tuned.


BECKEL: This is a FOX News alert. A grand jury has reached a decision on whether to indict Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown.

While we await the announcement, let's bring in "On the Record" host Greta Van Susteren.

Greta, is it -- Dana raises an interesting point. We were talking about this before. This is a strange time to be announcing this when it's getting dark there, if you're worried about riots, isn't it?

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, "ON THE RECORD": Well, except for some of the people are saying the reason why they want to do it now is they wanted rush hour traffic to clear. They wanted kids home from school, so they were trying to sort of clear the streets, because they believe people who are going to want to cause trouble will cause trouble any time, so they at least want to make it safer for people in the neighborhood.

GUILFOYLE: That makes sense.

BOLLING: Hey, Greta, it's Eric. So I don't know if anyone's gotten your opinion. Besides Kimberly, one of the smartest people we know in law. What's your opinion? Are they going to indict or not?

VAN SUSTEREN: Funny you should mention Kimberly, because she probably is the smartest one. She's been inside these jury rooms as a prosecutor, and I have not. I've been a defense attorney. But I'm on the receiving end of this, and people like Kimberly can indict a ham sandwich. So I was always worried. You know, she didn't need a lot of evidence.

But on a serious note, is that remember, it doesn't take a lot to indict. This is not a trial where it's beyond a reasonable doubt and leads to a conviction. This is just a grand jury.

I was always the defense attorney, so I always thought my clients would get indicted. And remember, he actually went into the grand jury to testify. The defense lawyer wasn't in there. Somebody like Kimberly would have been in there listening but not the defense lawyer.

And so, you know, Kimberly can give you a little better idea of what kind of grilling he got, but I can tell you, as a defense lawyer, that you're always worried when your client goes into a grand jury room alone.

GUILFOYLE: Yes -- no, she's right. And they're allowed to present some exculpatory evidence. But his attorney isn't allowed to go in and make a case in front of the grand jurors. So really, it is all the way from beginning to end of the day advantage prosecution. It is very easy to be able to obtain an indictment, assuming there is credible evidence to put forward.

And then, of course, it would be up to a jury if it proceeded forward and the D.A. elects to go forward on those charges to determine the strength of the evidence.

But you know, I don't know, Greta. I'm just curious how you think this might come down, because you know, with your sources, the resources you have, you've been able to get quite a bit of information, including the autopsy reports, pathology, et cetera.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you raise those, Kimberly, and I actually think that's what this case will turn on for the grand jury. Eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable. Two people can witness the same car accident and one person says it's a blue car and one will says it's a white. It's so bizarre.

But the scientific evidence, the ballistics report, I think it would be helpful, because it will show whether or not the clothes had any soot on it or any gun powder residue to indicate a closer shot. Obviously, a closer range shot would suggest that maybe the officer had a reasonable fear.

If there's no indication of any soot on the decedent from the gun powder, then it was farther away, suggesting that it was excessive force and not a reasonable fear. And you also look at where the wounds were and how many shots there were.

So I think this will depend on the physical evidence, what they saw, but I think that -- I think the officer went in essentially to plead for his life on this to say, "Look, you know, I didn't do that," or -- the decedent wasn't there to testify, but the officer was.

BECKEL: You got it, Dana?

PERINO: Greta, for the -- I shouldn't call him a defendant, but for Darren Wilson, what sort of security measures are taken to protect his safety going forward after this decision is announced?

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I certainly hope he does have some. I mean, look, you know, if there's a no bill. If there's no indictment, he should have some security. Or if there even is an indictment and he's on the street, look, he's going to have a bond issue, if he's indicted, whether he'll be released or not, pending trial.

But look, you know, you don't give -- he doesn't get the death penalty because he's accused of something. You know, which is sort of also the argument that many people on the street feel who think there should be an indictment, that a man shouldn't get the death penalty by a police officer for robbing a convenience store.

And the biggest problem with this case, I can tell all of you, is that very few people really want to examine the evidence. They want to take sides. And that's what's so painful about this. Because people take side, and taking sides is grossly unfair to the decedent, grossly unfair to the officer and to the community.

BECKEL: I hate to do this to you, Greta, but I've got to turn this over to Greg for a last question.

GUTFELD: I just have a question. I'm always interested in the media, in terms of when you talk about it is a team sport. Is the sense of future unrest overhyped and therefore self-fulfilling?

VAN SUSTEREN: You know, I think there's a risk of that, Greg. I mean, everybody worries about that. But then, on the other hand, do you give them more information so they take precautions?

I mean, look at Ebola. I actually think that people went -- the media went pretty wild about that, but as a consequence, we got pressure on the government to try to do something.

So I don't think there's any perfect answer to that. We all have to exercise our own judgment. We at 7 p.m. have held back on it until about now, in fear of trying to cause something. But I can see -- I can make an argument for why people would be out there, you know, putting a big spotlight on it.

BECKEL: OK, Greta. Thank you very much. We'll wait to hear from you "One More Thing" is up next. I got you. I got you.


GUILFOYLE: All right, it's time now for "One More Thing." But you really wanted to hear what we were talking about before, didn't you?

All right. When you're talking about Katy Perry, who I love because she is the big show for the Super Bowl. And they started promoting this, the NFL did, for Super Bowl XXXIX. Go 49ers. It's got your name on it. Take a look at this.


KATY PERRY, SINGER: Welcome to my halftime show testing facility. What if we covered the stadium in glitter. And the glitter was edible.

This halftime show is going to be crazy. I've got my time machine bringing in my very special guest. My dancers, five, six, seven, eight, and one, and two. Kittens! Oh, this is great.


GUILFOYLE: Well, there's some little animals in there for you. Anyway, let's see. She's got a lot of hype to live up to. I think she can deliver. Bob, can you?

BECKEL: Well, just to get that stuff out of football, there's no place for it. Yes, I've got -- I've been around a little bit, as you probably know.

And once in a while I try to give you a little bit of advice from my experiences, some of which are terrible. But I have one thing that I say on my answering machine. I guess you don't use that term anymore. But whatever it is. I said there's no such thing as a bad day. And I believe that. Now the kind of messages I get back from people, "What do you mean? Blah blah blah." Think about this, if you think about a day, in the course of a day, some kids give you a good smile. Somebody's letting you in line. Something good happens to you. There's no such thing as a bad day. So there you go. Don't ever get down on the day.

GUILFOYLE: Did you not have a "One More Thing"?

GUTFELD: That's called not having a "One More Thing."

BECKEL: Excuse me, I don't, I had that. We talked about this before. I was going to give this -- my sage advice.

GUTFELD: OK. My "One More Thing," there's no such thing as a good day.

BECKEL: Well, that's for sure for you. You may be the one person.

GUTFELD: Time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Medical Tips, brought to you by Greg Gutfeld.


GUTFELD: You know, Thanksgiving's coming up, which means you're going to eat a lot. So here's a tip from my buddy, Munchkin. Shall we roll?

Remember that for every block (ph) -- every M&M that you eat, you have to walk one block, it's true. Every M&M you eat you have to walk one block. Which is why Munchkin's on a treadmill, because he loves his M&M's. Actually, that's not true, because dogs can't eat chocolate. But if you want to exercise less, stay away from the candy and stick to meat and booze.

GUILFOYLE: I think that's like animal cruelty.

GUTFELD: Munchkin is awesome.

PERINO: I have a story about a dog.

GUTFELD: There's a surprise.

PERINO: This is a dog. His name is Arthur. But he didn't have a name before these guys came along. This is Peak Performance. They're a Swedish team. They do adventure racing world championship and they go through the amazon jungle. They found this dog, stray dog. They were eating their canned meat, and they gave the dog one meat ball. And then the dog -- they couldn't shake him.

He stayed with them for 20 miles. They swam in the Amazon. He went kayaking, and when they got back, he was just full of mud and everything. They too him to the vet. He got a clean bill of health, and then the Department of Agriculture in Sweden allowed him do go and be adopted. So he's going to live with Michael Linglorn.

BECKEL: Aw, isn't that sweet.

GUILFOYLE: This is the best story.

PERINO: Isn't that cute?

All right, Eric, I don't know if you can beat One More Thing.

BOLLING: I don't know if I have time. Last night I watched the AMAs. I know it. Don't tell me I have to turn in my man card. I didn't watch the Giants. I didn't watch "Homeland." I didn't even watch "Walking Dead." I watched it. Ariana Grande was great. Lorde was great. Garth Brooks was great. But imagine dragging the -- well, the first time they perform...

BECKEL: What is this?

GUILFOYLE: I watched that, too. American Music Awards.

PERINO: How was Dierks Bentley?

BOLLING: He didn't play.

PERINO: That's why I didn't watch.

GUILFOYLE: This has been fun. And don't forget to catch Greta later tonight on Ferguson. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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