Father of Oregon shooting survivor against Obama's visit; Carsons on gun comment backlash

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," October 6, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, a growing controversy involving the president of the United States and members of a grieving community in Oregon. As some residents in Roseburg suggests President Obama is not welcome to visit their town.

Good evening and welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly.

It was a little more than five days ago that the president stepped to a podium at the White House and made a passionate call for new gun control after a 26-year-old madman opened fire at a Community College in Oregon, killing nine and injuring nine others. The remarks came just as the town was still sorting through the aftermath of a shooting just hours earlier.  And the President mentioned that he may end up being accused of politicizing the tragedy.

And, in fact, he said, it should be politicized. Sure enough, in the 24 hours since the White House announced the President will visit Roseburg at the end of this week, several members of the Roseburg community including some of the victims' own families have questioned this visit.  And the President's real agenda. In a moment, we'll be joined by the father of one of survivors as well as the Roseburg Mayor Larry Rich and the City Council President Tom Ryan.

But, first, Trace Gallagher gets us caught up on the controversy tonight. Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, there's no doubt when the President spoke just hours after the shooting at Umpqua College and talked about gun control, many people in Roseburg were not happy. It's a pro-hunting, pro-gun community. And residents went on the record saying, the President should have focused on the families, not the politics.  Watch.


RICK SUND, ROSEBURG RESIDENT: His announcement he made about gun control and the way that coming off the first thing he said instead of saying I'm sorry for the families, I think it was just wrong.


GALLAGHER: Among the most outspoken is David Jakes, the publisher of the Conservative Roseburg Beacon newspaper. Jakes not only condemned the President's stance on guns. He said, the President wasn't welcomed in Roseburg and claim that he spoke for some families of the victims as well as some elected officials. Here's what he said on "The O'Reilly Factor."  Watch.


DAVID JACQUES, PUBLISHER, THE ROSEBURG BEACON: Our Douglas County commissioners along with our Douglas County elected sheriff who is very popular, and our chief of police all came to a consensus language about him not being welcomed here to grand stand for political purposes.


GALLAGHER: In fact, it was that popular Sheriff John Hanlin who sent a letter to Vice President Biden opposing gun control. But some other elected officials are now pushing back saying that David Jakes does not speak for them. Quoting here, "News outlets have been announcing that the President was not welcome in Roseburg. We wish to make it clear that Mayor Larry Rich, City Council Tom Ryan and the Roseburg City Council welcome the President to Roseburg and will extend him every courtesy."

It's unclear if the President will meet with Chris Mintz, the army vet who took several bullets trying to charge the gunman. The President has been criticized for not mentioning Mintz during his speeches. Mintz's apparently welcomes to visit but wants to avoid the politics -- Megyn.

KELLY: Uh-mm. Trace, thank you. Well, among those residents raising questions about the President's visit on Friday is Stacy Boylan, he is the father of Ana Boylan who managed to survive a near-fatal encounter with this gunman. She is recovering from a gunshot wound to her back tonight.

Her father Stacy Boylan joins me now. Stacy, welcome back to "The Kelly File." Your thoughts on President Obama's visit this Friday and the suggestion that this is a politicization of the tragedy?

STACY BOYLAN, FATHER OF SHOOTING SURVIVOR ANA BOYLAN: Well, I do believe it was Rahm Emanuel who said never, let a good tragedy go to waste.  And I really feel that his visit here is completely to support his gun control agenda. I can't understand why he wouldn't make a mention of the families and the victims. Maybe he did say it was a tragic, you know, incident and I do thank him for lowering the flags. But he made it all about gun control and he was very clear about that. And, you know, we saw this in Sandy Hook and now we're seeing it again. And I just question his motives.

KELLY: As a Second Amendment supporter, and I know you say Anna is, as well, how does it make you feel?

BOYLAN: You know, my position on this is that, you know, gun-free zones are a problem. They're an issue. They're a target for crazy people because they know they're not going to be met with resistance. You know, my daughter said to me, you know, what if somebody would have had a gun?  You know, gun free and gun control takes that option off the table.  Somebody doesn't have to use their gun in defense, but to take away that option entirely, I don't think that's the right course.

KELLY: When the President comes on Friday, will you visit if he wants to visit with family members? Will you see him?

BOYLAN: I've spoken for my family and for myself and for my daughter and son, on principle, I find that we -- I am, you know, in disagreement with this policies on gun control and therefore, we will not be attending the visit.

KELLY: How is Ana?

BOYLAN: I'm sorry, what was that?

KELLY: How is Ana doing tonight?

BOYLAN: Ana is recovering from her physical wounds. We are now, you know, of course, dealing with, you know, the aftermath of all of this. The dust is starting to settle, but you know, there's still a lot of interest in this event. And emotionally, she's processing. And we're just all being there to support her. And again, I thank all of the citizens, the people in Roseburg and in Springfield, the hospital of course, all the outpouring of support has been incredible in the healing process. And I've also, you know, I grieve for the loss of the lives that were taken on that day.

KELLY: So much hate was expressed late last week and yet so much love from those community members in the aftermath. Thank you for being here tonight, Stacy.

BOYLAN: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, after some members of the community raised questions about President Obama's visit, some of Roseburg's leaders weighed in with the different view saying they support President Obama coming to their town.

Joining me now, Roseburg Mayor Larry Rich and City Council President Tom Ryan.

Mayor Rich, let me start with you. You heard Stacy Boylan right there with an impassioned argument about how this has been politicized and he doesn't agree with the President's agenda. And he doesn't want his family situation politicized by the President. What say you?

MAYOR LARRY RICH, ROSEBURG: Well, I understand people are going to line up for both sides. I look at it as our community is grieving at the moment. We're here for the victims. The President has offered to come here and give us that national support to our community. And I think we need to show our respect and honor him as he is here representing the United States and we need to be respectful of that. So I'm very happy that the President has decided to stop by.

KELLY: What about you, Mr. Ryan? As you hear, you know, the thing about this particular situation is the President came right out and said, we ought to politicize this. And now you've got, it's not just Stacey, you've got several of the family members saying, no. You don't get to politicize our tragedy. The death or the shooting injuries of our loved ones.

TOM RYAN, ROSEBURG CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT: My personal opinion on the President's statement doesn't matter. He is the President of the United States. We will offer him everything that office should be accorded. I may disagree with his statements, but if he can help some of the victims that's what we're here for. The other reason is that we got kind of a little bit tired of people claiming to represent our community that didn't.

KELLY: Who's that? David Jakes?

RYAN: Well, that might be one of them, yes.

KELLY: That's the guy who was on with Bill.

RYAN: I'm a little more blunt than the mayor.


KELLY: Mr. Mayor, I ask you, you know, the White House was asked about this today. And Josh Earnest said in defending the President's visit, well, the President had a previously scheduled trip to the West Coast so it does not require a significant change in his travel plans for him to travel to Oregon and spend some time with the families. Some view that as a bit insensitive to suggest, look, you know, you're on their way to his fundraising, so what the heck, he's just going to swing by and spent a little time with the grieving families. Your thoughts on that.

RICH: Well, what people don't realize is his committee actually called the day before and said, what do you think if we stop by? They said that he was going to be on the West Coast. What do you think if he stopped by your community? And I also was the one who said, please do. Please show up. We would love to have you here. We would love to have that national support come to our community. It was an opportunity for our victims' families to meet and he's coming here to meet with him privately.  They're welcome to show up and visit if they want to. We just thank him for giving us that opportunity.

KELLY: And how about you Mr. Ryan? Let me ask you as the blunt man you say you are. If the President starts speaking about a push for gun control in a community that seems to support the Second Amendment strongly and in a situation where many of the victims support a Second Amendment and don't want to see gun laws tightened, what will you say to him?

RYAN: Well, he is the President of the United States. Regardless of who the President is, they are welcomed in our community.

KELLY: Right.

RYAN: If the members of the family want to meet with him, they're more than welcome to. If he can help them in any way, you know, more power to him. You know, my personal feelings are aside. He is the President of the United States.

KELLY: Right, he has a microphone, but so do you. So do you. Will you push back on his position on behalf of folks like Stacy or no?

RYAN: Well, you know, our state representative made a -- I'll quote him to saying that, you know, when the vehicle is in the ditch and the people are injured, you take them out then you argue about why the vehicle went in the ditch.

KELLY: Well, but that's the position that the families are taking or objecting. They're saying before the bodies had even grown cold, the President was out there politicizing this issue. That's why they're angry.  It's not that they dislike President Obama necessarily, it's that their loved ones hadn't even been, their bodies hadn't been retrieved when he was at the lectern talking about how this needs to be politicized.

RYAN: Well, I disagree with his statements, too, but he's still the President in the United States and he will be welcomed in our community.

KELLY: It's great the see you both. Thank you. And our condolences of what you've all gone through.

Well, Dr. Ben Carson was asked about Roseburg today and his response touched off a big campaign trail controversy, part of which is just breaking tonight.

Look, he's here and he will join us next on that.

Plus, Mrs. Carson is here for her very first visit to "The Kelly File."  Don't miss this. And then, new fallout tonight from an ugly report suggesting Vice President Joe Biden may have been the one who leaked intimate details about a private conversation he held with his son shortly before his son's death to Maureen Dowd of "The New York Times" for political advantage. We're looking into who put that out and whether it's true when Brit Hume joins us a moment.

Plus, the cameras were rolling when police had a violent encounter with this suspect. Mark and Arthur are here tonight on what came before this moment and whether that will change this story.







DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not only would I probably not cooperate with him, I would not just stand there and let him shoot me.  I will say, he guys, everybody attack him. He might shoot me but he can't get us all.


KELLY: Well, that was republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson on "FOX AND FRIENDS" earlier today on how he would react to a mass shooting like what we saw on Roseburg. The comment proved controversial, especially in light of the nine people killed with the New York Times saying nearly immediately that Dr. Carson, like other republican candidates, quote, "appeared to struggle to address the issue with sensitivity." That's their view. Later today, Dr. Carson was asked by ABC whether he was implying that the victims didn't do enough to protect themselves during the massacre. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dr. Carson, can you clarify your statement on the Oregon shooting?

CARSON: Okay. What needs clarification?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you -- I guess there's an implication that you're saying that the students didn't do enough to save themselves.

CARSON: No, I just said nothing about that. I said what I would do.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you say what you would do?

CARSON: I would ask everybody to attack the gunman. Because they can only shoot one of us at a time. That way, we don't all wind up dead.


KELLY: Joining me now, retired world renowned neurosurgeon, republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson along with his wife, Candy Carson both of whom are authors of a new book out today called, "A More Perfect Union: What We the People Can Do to Reclaim Our Constitutional Liberties." Thank you both for being here.

B. CARSON: Pleasure.


KELLY: All right. It's a pleasure to meet you, Candy Carson. Let me start with your good husband here. So that the accusation there, Dr. Carson, is that you appeared tone deaf and that you seemed callous in the laughter about a massacre and what you would have done.

B. CARSON: I'm laughing at them. And their silliness.


B. CARSON: The people asking that question. Of course, you know, if everybody attacks that gunman, he's not going to kill everybody. But if you sit there and let him shoot you one by one, you're all going to be dead.

KELLY: Uh-mm.

B. CARSON: And you know, maybe these are things that people don't think about, it's certainly something that I would be thinking about.

KELLY: But don't you allow for that notion that in a time of great stress like that, one might not know exactly what to do. And to judge them, to sound like you're judging them --

B. CARSON: I'm not judging them at all. But, you know, these incidents continue to occur. I doubt that this will be the last one. I want to plant the seed in people's minds so that if this happens again, you know, they don't all get killed.

KELLY: Uh-mm.

B. CARSON: And sometimes we have to look at the big picture, rather than listen to the people who are always trying to stir up controversy.

KELLY: Uh-mm. What do you make of it? Because just the notion that we can sit here and I bet you don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that either. There will be another one. There have been so many.


KELLY: And so many Americans are saying but that's not good enough.  What are we going to do about it? Is there something to be done? What do we do?

B. CARSON: Well, I think the key thing to do is look at all of these shooters. And see what we can glean in terms of their personalities, in terms of what kind of behavioral disturbances they've had in the past. And teach people to intervene before they reach this point.

KELLY: Uh-mm. But how do you do it? You can't put people away as easily today as they used to be able to do.

B. CARSON: I don't know that they're necessarily need to be put away.  But remember the Larry Holmes who, you know, he was working with a psychiatrist before all of this happened. And there was one of the other shooters who had a psychological history. We need to empower the people who are taking care of them who recognize these dangerous trends to do something.

KELLY: Uh-mm. And what about the parents? Let me ask you about that, Candy? As somebody who has raised children and now you are a grandmother, as well. The parents who need to pay attention to what's going on with their kids. How did you do it? How did you raise such good kids and such productive citizens? I mean, this mother was completely tuned out.

C. CARSON: Yes. Well, I think in today's world, because of our economic situation, so many have to do double duties everywhere. I mean, they're doing like two and three jobs because there's just not, you know, the economy is the way it is and the kids are just left to themselves. You know, teachers, you know, they're overburdened because there's so many students. It used to be classes could be as small as 20, 25. Now they're 30, 35, 40. So, you know, the kids are kind of being left behind.

KELLY: Just left them to the cracks.

C. CARSON: And we're not -- yes. I was able to stay home. Not everybody can do that. Even though, sometimes I felt like a single mom because he wasn't around most of the time. But the thing of it was, I was there.

KELLY: It's so irritating when your husband is a pediatric neurosurgeon saving the lives of a bunch of kids.


But I'm serious about this because you grew up in a bad area. And your mother couldn't read. You tell that story many times. You would have been a kid who slipped through the cracks. We did that a long package on you when you first announced your presidential run about how you try today stab somebody, the only reason it didn't go through was you hit his belt buckle.

B. CARSON: Right.

KELLY: I mean, you could have been a kid who --

B. CARSON: Very easily.

KELLY: -- wound up in trouble like this.

B. CARSON: No question about it. That is probably one of the reasons that I think differently than a lot of people. You know, I actually believe that there is a God. I do believe that there are forces that can help us if you seek them out. And I was taught that as a child. And I think it's something that I continue to trust in even to this day. And recognize that this nation actually used to be a nation where faith was not ridiculed. All of our money says In God we Trust. You know, our pledge of allegiance says, We're one nation under God. Many courtrooms on the wall says, In God we Trust.

KELLY: Uh-mm.

B. CARSON: Our founding document, the Declaration of Independence talked about certain unalienable rights given to our -- asked by our creator.

KELLY: Now, you're not allowed to do that. You're not allowed to pray, or you're going to do story later --


B. CARSON: So -- schizophrenic. What is this like -- is this terrible for you? You see him going through this? What is it like to watch the presidential debates and watch your husband up there, to see him get attacked especially now that he's the front-runner and at least one poll, the Investor's Business Daily poll?

C. CARSON: Well, I guess part of my secret is, I don't watch a lot of news.


Only because, you know, he's doing a certain thing that he feels called to do. And when I consider -- and I'm with him a hundred percent in the sense that I will support him. This is not something that I was looking to do. After giving up my husband for 40 years to medicine, I really don't want to give him up to our country. But then again, when I look at our grandchildren and you think of that deficit that we have, the huge debt, 18.5 trillion to pay it off at a rate of $10 million a day would take you 5,000 years. To saddle them with that kind of debt? We're the first generation in the history of this country to make it worse for the next one.

KELLY: What does he like? What does he like?

C. CARSON: It's exasperating how great he is.

KELLY: Oh, come on!

C. CARSON: Now, it's terrible!

KELLY: Oh, come on!

C. CARSON: No, I mean, he doesn't make mistakes much. I mean, if he makes them, it's a little tiny one. You know, that's what's irritating.


You know, I tell you. If I've lost -- say I misplaced my glasses or, you know, file papers, I mean, like a file or something. And I'll say, "Honey, have you seen this?" And he said, "No, I haven't seen it." Well, he's focused on whatever he's doing. It will be right in front of his face.


So, usually, after I ask him, I'll go and look where he is and it's there.

KELLY: It's interesting you guys just celebrated your 40th wedding anniversary. The book is called "A More Perfect Union." About what we can do to reclaim our liberties. And you have been in a perfect union for over four decades. Good luck with this.

B. CARSON: Thank you.

C. CARSON: Thank you.

KELLY: Thanks for being here with us.

C. CARSON: Thank you so much.

KELLY: Thanks to you both.

C. CARSON: Thank you.

KELLY: Nice to meet you.

C. CARSON: Nice the meet you, too.

KELLY: Well, coming up later, as I mentioned, one atheist group is now going after school prayer at an Arkansas High School. The students want to pray. They want to. But the atheist group doesn't want them to.  And the students have decided they're having none of the atheist group.  Tonight, we'll take a look at the legal fight.

Plus, new fallout tonight from an ugly report suggesting Vice President Joe Biden is the one who leaked details of an intimate conversation with his dying son. Brit Hume is next.


KELLY: Developing tonight, Vice President Joe Biden's inner circle aggressively attacking an ugly new report that claims Mr. Biden was the one who leaked the story about his dying son two months ago to "New York Times" columnist Maureen Dowd who had reported that in Beau Biden's final days, he encouraged his father, the Vice President to take on Hillary Clinton. The story was unsourced. But, today, political reported that it was the Vice President himself who fed that story to the newspaper.

FOX News senior political analyst Brit Hume is with us now. Brit, and the suggestion is that Joe Biden, what, used the death of his son for political gain?

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that would seem to be why anybody would care about it. I mean, look, if this happened, and we have no reason to believe that it didn't, that Beau Biden encouraged his father to run for president while he was dying, Beau was dying, that's an interesting footnote to all of this. And it obviously may help to explain why Joe Biden is considering so seriously the idea of running for president. But if the story is to have any meaning that he's actually the one who told Maureen Dowd that which might make some sense if it happened.  I don't think there's anything wrong with him telling Maureen Dowd that if he wanted to.

But I suppose the story raises the idea, the prospect that he did it all to try to generate sympathy for him which would in turn make him a more popular figure if he decides to enter the race. Well, I know Joe Biden.  And I also know what it's like to lose a son. And I don't doubt for one- on-one second the sincerity of this man's grief over that. And I don't have any reason to doubt at all that he feels like a presidential campaign is a big rough and tumble undertaking exhausting, enervating, and believe me, grief is enervating and that he is genuinely torn about this. I don't know which way he'll go. But I think his grief is sincere and his doubt about which way to go in sincere, as well.

KELLY: The question is, why are we learning about this because there are other reports that Hillary Clinton's team is all in on doing the Oppo- Research on Joe Biden. It's unconfirmed by FOX News. But I mean, you can imagine she's taking a look at him obviously same with Bernie Sanders.

HUME: Well, she's got this enormous super-structure of organizations and foundations and so on that are designed to support her and her husband's undertakings. And it would be absolutely surprising to me if some of those -- the people that work in those -- on the labor way in those venues, weren't keeping a dossier on Joe Biden. Look, Joe Biden is a target-rich environment. I mean, he's got a long record. He's been involved in many controversies. Has taken many positions on major foreign policy issues in particular but others as well and some of those positions have not turned out all together well.

And that will certainly arise if he should decide to get into the race. Right now, of course, he's not in the race, he's the Vice President and not making a lot of news every day.  So, you know, the waters are fairly calm. But they will quickly become turbulent if he gets in the race. And it would be surprising to me if the Hillary people were not all over that.

KELLY: Well, that's the thing, is that, he's not in the race yet and he's not beating her in most of the polls. But he's a different threat to her than Bernie Sanders is. And he seems to with the one that team Clinton maybe really concerned about. Notwithstanding the fact that it is Bernie Sanders who's beating her 41 to 29 in the latest polling, the Real Clear Politics average in New Hampshire.

HUME: Well, Megyn, I think the point is, that if Joe Biden were to enter the race, the question then arises, okay, whose support does he draw most from? I don't think he would draw very much from Bernie Sanders because Bernie Sanders is out there in left field.

KELLY: Feel the Burn.

HUME: Yes. Feel the burn, exactly. And the people who are feeling the burn, I don't think they're going to say, oh, let's line up with Joe Biden.

KELLY: Let's go riding with Biden.

HUME: That's right. Let's go riding with Biden. Because -- his, you know, his ideological profile, political profile, is much closer to Hillary Clinton than it is to Bernie Sanders and so, it would make sense. And the polls suggest this as well, that if he gets in the race, it hurts her. And that would be an undesirable outcome, obviously to her point of view and, you know she would -- I think want to discourage him from doing that.

KELLY: That's a gentle way of putting it, Brit, great to see you.

HUME: Yeah. Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, new questions tonight about whether Russia may expand its military operations now in the Middle East. Apparently, Syria was not enough. Mark Thiessen is next on whether the Kremlin could now be turning its attention to cities and the country that Americans fought to die - fought and died to liberate.

Plus, in just the last couple of hours, the democrats launched a new effort to take out the Benghazi select committee. Take it down all together, before Hillary Clinton is called to testify, later this month. Congressman Trey Gowdy, the committee chairman is here next to answer this question.


HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fact is we have four dead Americans.


CLINTON: Whether it's because of a protest or was it because guys out for a walk one night and decide they go kill some Americans. What difference at this point does it make?


KELLY: Breaking tonight, just over an hour ago, democrats trying and failing to derail the congressional committee investigating the deadly Benghazi terror attacks. This comes after a week of controversy over comments from Republican Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, suggesting that the committee is intent on damaging Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, watch.


KEVIN MCCARTHY, HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why, because she's untrustable (ph).


KELLY: Reaction was fierce. Democrat Leader Nancy Pelosi calls for the committee to be disbanded. And today, the Clinton campaign released this political ad.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The republicans finally admit it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Republican Kevin McCarthy, saying the committee investigating Benghazi and Clinton's e-mails was created to destroy her candidacy.

KEVIN MCCARTHY, REPUBLICAN LEADER: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee. What are her numbers today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Republicans have spent millions attacking Hillary because she's fighting for everything they oppose, from Affordable Health Care to equal pay. She'll never stop fighting for you and the republicans know it.


KELLY: Republican Congressman Trey Gowdy is the chairman of the select committee on Benghazi. Good to see you tonight, Sir. And so you.


KELLY: I mean, you've been praised by both sides of the aisle at times, for the way you've handled this committee. I imagine you feel very disappointed in those comments, but you tell me.

GOWDY: Well, Kevin's wrong. And I would ask your viewers and everyone else, frankly, those that are suspicious and those that are been supportive. They don't focus on the words that people who are not on the committee use. Focus on the actions of those of us who have been on that committee for the last year and a half. And Megyn, out of the 54 witnesses that we have interviewed 41 of them by the way, no other committee interviewed, not a single one of them has been named Clinton. Of the 50,000 documents -- new documents that we have accessed, less than 5 percent have anything to do with her. And if you look at the public hearings we've had so far, her name is not cross by list.

KELLY: So it's not all about Hillary Clinton. That's your point. It's not all about her, but.


KELLY: Let me ask you.

GOWDY: She was the secretary of state at all relevant times. So we'd been crazy not to talk to her.

KELLY: But Kevin McCarthy came out and suggests that he regret to comment, but I ask you directly, has he apologized to you?

GOWDY: Profusely, Megyn, Kevin is a friend. That does not insulate him from being wrong, but he has apologized profusely. And I have accepted it. And now, it is time for me to continue getting ready for October 22nd. She's going to be treated professionally. She's going to be treated fairly. Look at what Cheryl Mills said when she spent nine hours with us.

KELLY: But she left.

GOWDY: She left the room and said, "I was treated respectfully, professionally, fairly" and she thanked us for our word. This is Secretary Clinton's number two person that said that.

KELLY: But Hillary, herself, came out and said this comment, she said, "Does a grace disturbance and dishonors the memory of the four people who were killed in Benghazi."

GOWDY: Well, Megyn, the only thing I can tell you is this. I made a promise to the family members before we ever started. Republicans and democrats were in there. At the same time, and I said, we are going to do this in a way that is honor -- that honors the memory of your loved ones and we're going to do it in a way that garners the respect of our fellow citizens. And I think that our committee has done just that. I cannot control what people not on our committee say or do. What I can control is how we act. And if you look at how we've conducted ourselves leading up to October 22nd, and then look at the 40 witnesses we call after October 22nd, not a one of whom will be named Clinton, she was secretary of state. I cannot avoid calling her.

KELLY: But -- quick question before I let you go.

GOWDY: But she's one out of a hundred.

KELLY: Quick question before I let you go. Any -- hearing anything from the Clinton camp that she might not show up because some in the press are speculating now?

GOWDY: No, Ma'am. I think she's going to come. She said she's going to come. She's going be treated fairly. She's going to be asked fact-centric questions. And mass suspicion is her conclusion will be the same as Cheryl Mills that this committee proves for once that a Washington investigation can actually be done the right way.

KELLY: Congressman Trey Gowdy, great to see you. Thank you.

GOWDY: Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

KELLY: Well, another potential foreign policy nightmare shaping up for this administration and this country. As we learned that the prime minister of Iraq is now saying that he would quote, "Welcome Russian assistance in the fight against ISIS." So could the Kremlin soon be occupying a country where thousands of Americans fought and died? Marc Thiessen is a Fox News contributor and a former chief speechwriter for president -- for George W. Bush. So, great, the Russia is going to take over in Syria, they're going to take over in Iraq and there going to -- basically, take over the entire Middle East and now I guess, we're not supposed to care?

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Apparently not. I mean look, just when you -- when you -- just when you thought it couldn't get worse in the Middle East, it gets worse. So the Iraqi prime minister gave an interview on French television this week, and what she said that Barack Obama does not have the will to do what's necessary to defeat ISIS and that he would welcome a Russian forces to conduct air strikes in this country, and he said, this is a quote, "We were expecting the Americans will bring massive airpower to protect our forces and support them in the fight. We haven't received that massive airpower." So America's campaign against ISIS had been so anemic, that one, it become pretext for Russia to come in, in the first place and rescue the effort in Syria, that's the pretext of their intervention. And second now, we've got the Iraqis who are suggesting that they might invite Russia to come in and basically replace us.

KELLY: But don't worry. Do not worry because the Russian foreign minister came out and said, "Iraq has unofficially requested its rights and we are polite people. We do not come if we are not invited." That is the quote.

THIESSEN: Yeah, tell that to the Ukrainian. I mean, come on.


THIESSEN: It's absurd.

KELLY: All right, so in the meantime, this is what the United States are doing -- I like to look just to see what -- what are we saying? What are we actually about it? And this is what Josh Earnest said at the White House, "Well, there's been at one -- at least one preliminary conversation between the United States and Russia." We've had at least one, Marc. So we're feeling pretty good about that one. And we're really chatting with them about how we don't approve of their strategy.

THIESSEN: Yeah, exactly. I mean, look. The problem we have here is that our campaign, if we -- if President Obama was launching a robust campaign against ISIS, that would actually have a military effect on the ground, none of this would be happening. I mean, Jack Keane testified on Capitol Hill a few weeks ago, 75 percent of U.S. air sorties (ph) against ISIS target in Syria and Iraq, come back without dropping their bombs. I mean, this campaign is so weak. It gives a new definition to weakness. And so what that means is, our adversaries are like, Russia, don't worry about us and don't fear us and our allies don't trust us.

KELLY: Last night, Marco Rubio.

THIESSEN: To have their back.

KELLY: Last night, Marco Rubio suggested that we maybe at the dawn of a new cold war of sorts with Russia in the wake of all of this. Does he go too far?

THIESSEN: No. In fact, it's worst because we could be -- we're in the dawn of a new cold war with Russia, but Russia is now moving into the Middle East and building an alliance with Iran. So Russia is building a coalition that it sees as Russia, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanese, Hezbollah, all working together to counter-drive America out and counter our influence in the region. So we're, you know, Iran is the Shia face of Islamic radicalism, where war of Islamic radicalism. Russia is there to help the -- our Shia enemy drive us out. So this is the -- if our Shia enemy defeats our Sunni enemy, that is a victory for the United States and it's a victory for Russia, it's a victory for Iran. So this is a big problem we have.

KELLY: It's confusing, but it sounds bad. Marc, it's great to see you.

THIESSEN: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Right? It is like the Shia and the Sunni, but it's bad. That's what you need to know.

The cameras were rolling when police had a violent encounter with this suspect. Marc and Arthur are here next on what came before this moment and whether that will change this story, watch this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back or you were going.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back or you were going to.





KELLY: Well, a Los Angeles woman has now filed the lawsuit against police, after cameras caught this confrontation, where the officers were seeing violently hitting her.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing to her?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing to her?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back. She didn't do anything, she was talking to.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back or you were going.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back or you were going to.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help me. Help me. Help me.


KELLY: And wait until you hear what she did to get the cops so upset, joining me now to debate it, Fox News legal analyst and New York trial attorney Arthur Aidala and former prosecutor now criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh. So Mark, why don't you tell the people what she did that was so upsetting to the officers.

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it was a heinous crime, Megyn. She allegedly failed to wear her seat belt.

KELLY: If I've seen it once, I've seen it a million times.

EIGLARSH: Yes. And she also made the mistake of calling in to the police department to complain that the officer wasn't treating her properly.


EIGLARSH: So that proceeded.


EIGLARSH: The officer stopping her, which would seem like a pretextual stop them.

KELLY: She went by a cop.

EIGLARSH: And of course, we see the rest of.

KELLY: She sees a cop. His siren is going off in his police car, she says, "What's the deal?" He says -- on a car, he's in front of it. She just, "What's going on?" He said, "Is this your car?" She said, "No." She said that, "It's not your effin' (ph) business." She gets in the car with her two kids, Arthur, her two kids, drives off -- thinking oh, she just happens to be pulled over for a seat belt violation.

AIDALA: Yeah, that's the part that's upsets me more than anything. As disturbing as that video is, imagine everybody, your two children, I think 11 and 9 are somewhat like standing there, watching their mother being attacked by law enforcement. This is a woman without a weapon. She's a woman, who does not like a black belt in mixed martial arts. There's no reason for that degree of force.

KELLY: OK. In defense of the police, and on this one slice of it, once they try to place you under arrest, you have to submit. I mean you have to submit.

AIDALA: Right.

KELLY: So you can't resist arrest. However, the pretense, you know, the pretextual reason for pulling her over seems rather clear, Mark, and the initial show of force. And to add insult to injury, you tell me, they've charged her. They've charged her criminally with battery on a peace officer and resisting. Those charges were ultimately dropped only when what happened?

EIGLARSH: Well, when they saw the video, apparently. But, listen, I'm like the only one that's not.

KELLY: They didn't know it had a video. It came out.


KELLY: And suddenly, they have to drop the case.

EIGLARSH: Yeah, I'm not surprised. This is part for the course. I mean, it happens all of the time where my clients are the ones that get arrested for, I don't know, punching the cop's face with -- I mean their fist with their face. It's crazy. It happens all of the time. But in -- I will, I will challenge myself to defend these cops in that, we don't have their version yet. The video looks horrible. Apparently, they claim that there's something more to this. Would they why.

KELLY: Well, the DA dropped the charges, Arthur. The DA said, "You know what, we've got no case."

AIDALA: Megyn, why is she out of the car? I mean, in the jurisdictions that I represent people in, when you don't have your seatbelts on, the cops says give me your license, he takes the license, he writes you a summons it is. This you never leave the automobile. So why is she out of the car? That's what -- I guess, I want to hear from the police officers. Why did she even exit the vehicle?

KELLY: But now what do you think of the civil lawsuits?

AIDALA: With two kids in the car.

KELLY: So now she's -- the charges have been resist -- or have been dropped. But her lawyer says if they had pursued those and she had been found guilty, she surely going to a state prison. This mother would have gone to state prison.

EIGLARSH: Oh, sure.

KELLY: Over that incident.

EIGLARSH: Oh, absolutely. Those are serious felony charges.

KELLY: So she can.


KELLY: How does her civil lawsuit look?

EIGLARSH: Well, again, we want to hear the other side, but if it's solely based on this video, I think a jury can reasonably conclude that that's excessive. That's a come out with the punches, so soon after the officer left his vehicle, was not the right starting point.

AIDALA: Right, but she.

EIGLARSH: And solely from a PR perspective, Megyn. If we're trying to bridge the gap between communities and officers, that's not the best move to make up.

AIDALA: But she shouldn't become a multimillionaire off of this either.


AIDALA: In other words.


AIDALA: I don't believe she got any big injuries.

EIGLARSH: Correct.

AIDALA: Or anything like that. So yes.

EIGLARSH: Memory lost.

KELLY: She said she had contusions.


AIDALA: Right.

EIGLARSH: Memory lost.

KELLY: Contusions and later a concussion. All right, I've got run, because we have more to discuss with you right after the break, including this. Atheists wanted to remove prayer from one school. Not the school, not the students, not -- just the atheists wanted it out. And wait until you see how the community reacted.


KELLY: Well, atheists have threatened legal action after a school band director was leading students in prayer. Now students and fans are fighting back. At a recent game, dozens of fans and students from both teams kneeled together on the field in prayer, back with me now Marthur (ph).


KELLY: Mark and Arthur.

EIGLARSH: I really love that, Megyn. I really love it.

KELLY; I know. It does it -- I like it where Mark on the one side because it is -- now it's like Ark (ph).


KELLY: Anyway.


KELLY: You tell me -- apparently, there was one student. Why is there always just one?


KELLY: I feel like the atheists go to this school, they try to find somebody. Are you ticked off? Are you ticked off? Are you ticked off? So one student versus everyone else, and the one is going to get his way. The prayer is not allowed, am I right?

AIDALA: And it's horrible. I mean it's absolutely horrible. And the only -- the next step I wish these students do as soon as they're 18 and can vote, and their parents and the fans and the refs, go to the ballot box and put politicians into office who are going to do something about this.

KELLY: What can they do, Mark? This is a Supreme Court decision. It says it can't be teacher-led, that's the problem. The students can do it on their own.

EIGLARSH: Megyn, while Arthur was shaving his beautifully polished head during preparation for this segment, I was doing research. And it's the Santa Fe decision and it was decided in 1990. And it mirrors the same facts here. You can't do it. Don't kill the messenger.

AIDALA: The students can.

EIGLARSH: Kill the supreme.

AIDALA: The students can.

KELLY: You can't have a school official involved.

AIDALA: So let the students do it. It's very simple.

EIGLARSH: They can do it quietly. They can do it silently, but to do it on a public PA system.

AIDALA: But the students can do it.

EIGLARSH: Urging students to do it, it can't be done.

KELLY: All right.

EIGLARSH: These facts, no good.

KELLY: Guess what? They're doing it -- great to see you both.


KELLY: Don't go away because I want you to answer the question next. For 500, can you name the anchor mentioned in Jeopardy tonight, next.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: TV for $400. The hosts of the first GOP debate on Fox in August 2015 were Bret Baier, Chris Wallace and her. John?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is Megyn Kelly?



KELLY: Nice, John, way to go. My mom saw that, she was so excited, so was Nana. Now if they can just make me appear on Matlock, Nana will be thrilled. See you tomorrow night, thanks for watching. I'm Megyn Kelly.

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