Ex-Lover Wants Contact With Letourneau

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," August 4, 2004 that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: Now for the top story tonight, one of the most bizarre situations we've ever seen in America. Child molester Mary Kay Letourneau (search).

Here's the rap sheet.

In 1996, the then 34-year-old elementary schoolteacher began an affair with a 12-year-old student, ultimately becoming pregnant. In '97, she was convicted and sentenced to just six months in jail for second-degree child rape.

A short time later, she got out of prison and again had sex with the 12-year-old and again became pregnant. This time, she was sentenced to seven-and-a-half years.

Today, she got out. Now the 12-year-old boy is a 21-year-old man, and he wants the judge to allow Letourneau to see him again. Got all that?

With us now, Anne Bremner, who defended the City of Des Moines, Washington, in a lawsuit filed by the boy's mother who currently has custody of the two girls that Ms. Letourneau gave birth to.

Is this woman a nut or what?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what comes to mind is the line from "Alice in Wonderland." This case has just gotten "curiouser and curiouser." When she first came through the system, she said that she had manic depression and asked to be treated for it.

O'REILLY: All right.

BREMNER: So that's the way it started, Bill, and then, from there, she violated conditions of release by seeing him again, having yet another child. Remember, she was pregnant when she was first sentenced, was let out and got pregnant again.

O'REILLY: Was — let me stop you.

BREMNER: So that's how it started.

O'REILLY: Did the lenient sentence come about because she told the court that she had some kind of emotional or mental condition?

BREMNER: Exactly.

O'REILLY: It did?


O'REILLY: All right. So they took pity on her and said, all right, six-and-a-half months, we'll work on getting you, you know, a prescription or counseling, whatever you need.


O'REILLY: Then she comes out and does the same thing again, sires another child. In the meantime, this woman had four other children.

BREMNER: Four. So she had a total of six.

O'REILLY: Right. From the marriage that she was in when she started this affair with her 12-year-old boy. Her husband subsequently divorced and moved to Alaska.


O'REILLY: Now the 21-year-old wants to get re-involved. Now what are authorities going to do?

BREMNER: Well, that's the big question right now because, in the interim, she served seven years in prison, andhe's 21 and she's 42, and the question — there's two sides, as always. It's been said this is a crime. It is. It's a felony. She says it's love. So does he. He in the lawsuit I had said he was damaged and wanted millions of dollars from the police.

O'REILLY: All right. So his family sued the state — the city where this took place.

BREMNER: And the school district.

O'REILLY: Is it Des Moines the same way as Iowa or...

BREMNER: Des Moines.

O'REILLY: OK. Des Moines. And he said in the process that he was damaged and wanted millions of dollars. How much did he get?


O'REILLY: He got zero. He lost the case.

BREMNER: Defense verdicts all around, and, for some of us that were involved in the case, we had some standing ovations back home because we saved money.

O'REILLY: Yes. All right. So his family — his mother — does he have a father?

BREMNER: He does.

O'REILLY: He does.

BREMNER: His father...

O'REILLY: Do they live together, the mother and father?

BREMNER: No, the father has 18 children.

O'REILLY: No, he doesn't. So this is just screwed up all over the place.

BREMNER: We don't have second chapters in life. Maybe they do because, at this point, there's children to think about. There's two — at least at least two kids.

O'REILLY: But she's not going to get custody of the children. She's going to have supervised visitation. I don't think the State of Washington is going to give her custody of these kids, do you?

BREMNER: Well, they've been with Soona, the mother of Vili Fualaau (search).

O'REILLY: Right. Since birth.

BREMNER: One's 6 and one's 7, right.

O'REILLY: Right. So I'd be shocked if the State of Washington...

BREMNER: I agree completely.

O'REILLY: ... is to take a chance on a nut like this to give her and this kid who looks to me to be a total moron — I mean, I don't want you to say that. I'll say that. I read his statements today. He's nervous, he doesn't know what he wants to do, then he's this, then it looks like he's just somebody who could be manipulated into doing anything.

BREMNER: Well, he filed his motion today to have it lifted and the question is his right of assembly, his right to see his children with the mother, et cetera, but then you've got the judge saying I want this as a condition for life, and you know the judge presumably knew Mary would get out some day.


BREMNER: And so that day has come. Now will the judge change her mind? That's a bigger issue than, I think, a lot of the people are saying out there about this...

O'REILLY: But the 21-year-old — he can see these kids anytime he wants because his mother is the legal guardian, right?

BREMNER: That's right.

O'REILLY: All right.

BREMNER: That's right.

O'REILLY: So if he were a responsible person, you would feel that he would be the legal guardian, but he isn't.

BREMNER: Well, he was a father at 13. So it's a little more complicated. I mean, the case — it's prompted so many jokes, you know, as...

O'REILLY: Yes, but he's 21 now.

BREMNER: He is 21 now.

O'REILLY: Now what is possible is that these two get together, if the judge says you can, all right, and then they petition to get the kids to live with them. That's all possible, right?

BREMNER: It is absolutely possible.

O'REILLY: Oh, my God.

BREMNER: But is it probable?



O'REILLY: But it's Seattle.

BREMNER: Well, and we've heard all about Seattle.

O'REILLY: Yes, it's Seattle.


O'REILLY: That's like San Francisco-lite.

BREMNER: Yes, but I have to defend Seattle and we're a great city. It's nice to be important there.

O'REILLY: It's a beautiful city, but you know the mentality out there.

BREMNER: Oh, it's important to be nice...

O'REILLY: I'm hoping this judge...

BREMNER: ... and polite.

O'REILLY: ... is going to stand firm and say, OK, you're a convicted sex offender, we're not going to give you these privileges to do this because you're irresponsible. This woman is totally irresponsible. Now the last question is she now is out of prison. If she violates the court order and sees this 21-year-old, she can go right back to prison, can't she?

BREMNER: That's right. But, you know, I saw her a little over a week ago. She was an important part of my case because she didn't stand by Vili and his mother's case and that was very important and helpful to the public in terms of the lawsuit. And she's been helping others in prison. She wants to come help mothers who are in prison, and I think...

O'REILLY: So you're saying she's not an evil person.

BREMNER: We are all fallen angels, Bill, and I...

O'REILLY: Oh, no. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Counselor, Counselor...

BREMNER: Except for you. Except for you.

O'REILLY: No, no. I'm a fallen angel, but I'm not going to hurt two children and do what she did under any circumstances at anytime.

BREMNER: I agree with you completely.

O'REILLY: So there are degrees of fallen angels...

BREMNER: Oh, that's right.

O'REILLY: ... and this woman has forfeited her right, in my opinion, all right, because of the horrible thing — look, you've got three lives here. You've got this 21-year-old molested at 12 and two children.

BREMNER: I agree, and I'm an ex-prosecutor in sex-assault crimes. I'm with you.

O'REILLY: You bet.

BREMNER: I'm just saying that we also have to look — this is a multilayered case, and we have to look at those children, and the welfare of those children is the most important right now.

O'REILLY: That's absolutely right.

All right, Counselor. Thanks very much for coming in. We really appreciate it.

BREMNER: My pleasure. Thanks.

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