Ex-Hunter Biden associate Tony Bobulinksi to attend second debate

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Ex-Hunter Biden associate Tony Bobulinksi to attend second debate

'The Five' discuss how President Trump should approach new Hunter Biden email allegations on stage

This is a rush transcript from “The Five" October 23, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.  

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Dana Perino, along with Martha MacCallum, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5:00 in New York City and 4:00 in Nashville. This is The Five. Well, it's all on the line for both Donald Trump and Joe Biden. We are just four hours away from tonight's high stakes debate. And anything can happen.

The candidates set to face off for the final showdown just 12 days from the presidential election. And a major curveball is coming Biden's way. President Trump will be bringing Tony Bobulinski, a former business partner of Hunter Biden, as his debate guest. That man claims Joe Biden knew about and was involved in a deal with a Chinese energy firm.

We're told Tony Bobulinski is expected to address the media at any moment. We'll bring that to you. The big question Joe Biden faces tonight is how does he respond to this issue, Biden stopping to speak to reporters on his way to Nashville.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hopefully, he could play by the rules. Hopefully, everybody has been tested. Hopefully, it's all worked out the way the rules are. I am looking forward to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: As for President Trump, it will be a bit of a balancing act between going after Hunter Biden and Joe Biden and talking about kitchen table issues. President Trump is being encouraged by some to limit the attacks on Biden's son and focus on his strengths like the economy. We have yet to hear from the president today. But last night, he previewed what he might say tonight. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This election is a choice between a Trump super recovery or a Biden steep depression. And that's what you are going to have. It's between a Trump boom or a Biden lockdown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right. Jesse Watters, why don't we start with you today and what you're thinking on this, as we preview the debate again?

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Donald Trump should be debating Kamala Harris tonight. Because after what broke today, there is no way Joe Biden can be president. We now have confirmation that the emails are legit. The business partner is out there talking. And what did he say? That Joe Biden is the big guy, and Joe Biden is getting kickbacks from the Chinese.

That Joe Biden was selling was office. His family was selling access. And he was getting rich from it. His whole family was getting rich. And so maybe that's why Joe was so soft on China his whole career. Maybe that's why Joe covered for the Chinese when the virus hit and blamed President Trump instead. So this Biden scandal is going to break wide open tonight live in front of 70 million American people watching.

I don't know what Joe says. I don't know what he can say. But this is an October surprise. I don't think Joe was surprised. Many people knew that the Biden family was a ticking time bomb. And it exploded two weeks before an election. What did Barack Obama say? He would not put it past Joe to blank it up. Well, this is what happened. He blanked it up.

Donald Trump wasn't surprised by it. He knew they were corrupt last year and he got impeached for pointing it out. So Kristen Welker, the debate moderator, is going to have her hands full this evening. I just found out Kristen is an Eagles fan and she's from Philadelphia, so I'm going to have to kind of pull my punches here.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Because we stick together in Philadelphia.

PERINO: That's so kind of you, Jesse.

WATTERS: I'm just going to say don't defend Joe. Ask questions that are relevant to the American people, and don't be a headline. And also, Kristen, go Eagles.

PERINO: All right. Juan, political pros really do love it when a scandal breaks just hours before a high stakes event like a debate like this. So you have Jesse's take. Let's get yours.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, I hope that President Trump brings it up, because brought it up at the last debate and just totally whiffed. Because he opened himself to Joe Biden saying, look, my son had some troubles. My son had a terrible time with drug addiction. And I think millions of American families know what it's like to have a kid that's having some trouble, has, you know, the disease of drug addiction.

And people are totally in sympathy with it. There's nobody who's going to against Joe Biden or vote for Donald Trump on the basis of Hunter Biden having a drug problem.

WATTERS: It's not about that.

WILLIAMS: Or attacks on someone's family.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: It's not about Hunter. It's about Joe.

WILLIAMS: If he wants -- if Trump wants to turn this around, and he needs something big tonight, Dana, because he is behind. If he needs to change the direction of this campaign, he has got to spend time talking about COVID and the economy.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Hey, you know what he should say, Juan? He should say, hey, who is the big guy?

WILLIAMS: Yeah. I think that would entertain you, but it would not change any votes. And that's what we're --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Juan, who is the big guy? Juan, who is the big guy?

WILLIAMS: I don't care who the big guy is.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: You don't care if Joe Biden has taken millions from the Chinese? You don't care?

WILLIAMS: If you have some proof, bring it out -- big guy.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Otherwise, I say you know what. Just wait until you have something.

WATTERS: Fox confirmed it.

WILLIAMS: You are just puffing away.

WATTERS: Juan, I think you are the one puffing because your own colleagues confirmed it today.

WILLIAMS: Confirmed what?

WATTERS: He is the big guy.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Oh, please. I call you the big guy.

PERINO: You two, stop. All right, Martha MacCallum, you have the floor.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So this is obviously going to get a ton of attention. And we are all looking forward to hearing from Mr. Bobulinski. I mean, even his name is like something out of an October surprise in an election movie. And that's sort of the way this entire year has felt. It's surreal. On the other side of the equation when it comes what, I think, each side needs to do.

President Trump, when he goes in there tonight, he needs to have some specifics about what he would do. When I watch the Lesley Stahl interview and there is a lot to be said about that with regard to whether or not she was bias in her questions. But when she asked him about healthcare, he doesn't ever nail down three or four specific points of what people can anticipate in the next four years.

What their version of this healthcare actually looks like if this gets shot down in the Supreme Court to reassure voters, because this is a very big issue for voters. It was a huge issue in 2018. And I know the president says that his preparation is these, you know, interactions with the press when he's going here and there. But he needs to have done some homework and know what he's going to say specifically.

So that people can look at that and go, oh, OK, now I get it. Now, I understand where this would take me -- administration would take me in the next four years. And as far as Joe Biden would -- is carved for him tonight, his strongest point in this election so far is that he offers calm stability. That is the thing that seems to have worked for him so far.

So he's going to have to do that in the face of these questions about what really goes on behind the curtain with the big guy and chairman. And if they are able to poke holes in that, it could make that veneer a bit vulnerable.

PERINO: All right. Greg Gutfeld, let's turn it over to you.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, obviously, the big news right now is Donald Trump is having Mr. Tony Bobulinski as his debate guest. And I hear that Joe Biden has responded by inviting Mr. Bob Dobalina (ph), Mr. Bob Dobalina.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: This story cannot be ignored anymore. The media is trying their best to ignore -- we saw Juan valiantly try to steer it towards drug addiction. It's about Hunter Biden anymore. It's about Joe Biden in selling influence for money. He is the big guy. It's been verified. We know this. That's why Mr. Bobulinski is going to be at the debate. So I'm going to use a metaphor.

Because there's something that's going to be missing here tonight, it is foreign policy, right? So I'm going to begin with an obesity analogy. About a year ago, I was overweight, Jesse, about 40 pounds overweight. I thought about it every day. It was driving me crazy. It filled up my brain. So I decided to do something about it. I decided to exercise more and watch my diet.

And lo and behold, I lost weight. My weight loss is Trump's foreign policy. I no longer have to think about it. I no longer have to talk about it, except as a lesson. I don't even worry about -- I worry about other things. What's for dinner? That's what foreign policy's become for Trump. The irony is the successes that he's had with North Korea, dealing with China, right, the Middle East.

We are not even talking about the Middle East. What that's done is that's eliminated an issue that he can talk about, because it's not on anybody's plate anymore. He has -- how can you go on and have a debate about foreign policy and argue with Donald Trump about China. He was the first guy there. He was the first guy to say there was something up.

He took the nuclear threat of North Korea off the map. ISIS, we don't hear about ISIS. They will be back. But he went after them hard. So this is an interesting that his greatest achievement of the last four years has effectively removed that issue from the table. So now, we are all talking about are words, words, words, as opposed to Joe Biden's deeds.

There's a foreign policy issue we should discuss. He has compromised himself. And to Jesse's point, once -- if he actually wins, impeachment proceedings start the day after inauguration. And I don't think the Democrats are going to mind, because they have Kamala Harris.

WATTERS: Yup.

PERINO: All right. We have a lot more to come. So we're just getting started. The final debate, it is tonight. Up next, we'll get into the brand new allegations surrounding Hunter Biden, as a former business partner is set to talk to the media any moment now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Welcome back to Nashville. As we were just talking about, there are new major developments involving Hunter Biden and the larger story of the Biden family business ventures. So a former business partner of Hunter Biden, Tony Bobulinski, is expected to speak to the media tonight, that after releasing a statement earlier today, confirming a legitimacy of an email found on Hunter Biden's purported laptop.

The email, which was addressed to Bobulinski, lays out the percentage payout that would exist in a Chinese partnership that included quote, "10 percent for the big guy." Bobulinski saying quote, "the reference to the big guy in the much-publicized May 13, 2017 email is in fact a reference to Joe Biden." Hunter Biden called his dad quote, "the big guy or my chairman," and frequently referenced asking him for his sign-off or advice on various potential deals that we were discussing.

Bobulinski also claiming that he personally witnessed Joe Biden discussing these business deals with his son. That contradicts the claims from that we've had so far from the former vice president who said they never ever discussed it. So there is also a May 2017 text from Bobulinski to a business associate that said this about Hunter, quote, "you need to stress to H? Does he want to be the reason or factor that blows up his dad's campaign?

This needs to be done right and protective of that fact." The president saying that these new allegations should be investigated and Republicans are getting on board.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I do think a special prosecutor is absolutely appropriate. This is the former vice president who may be involved in a money laundering scheme. You've got emails now. It looks like he's getting kickbacks -- Joe Biden getting kickbacks from the China. I mean, the American people deserve some answers here. And he needs to be asked about it at tonight's debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: All right. Juan, let's start with you because you brought up the fact that you felt there was no proof of any of this. Mr. Bobulinski has many more text messages than just this one. And I can share of those in a moment. But, you know, what is your reaction? This man is involved in this email. He says let me explain it to you. This is what the email means.

WILLIAMS: I think you just read a quote which he said basically do you want to blow up your dad's campaign. It doesn't sound like Joe Biden is involved at all. And we have no evidence in terms of bank accounts or anything like that that would give credence to this. You know, what somebody says in an email just, you know, you just take it for what it goes. But there is no evidence. There's no reason for this.

PERINO: Hold on a second.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: -- because, you know, I understand your take on that email. And I think that's a very good point. That's a good argument on the Biden side. These are not as much a good argument on their side. Putting the Biden family name and legacy on the line, he grew concerned with what he saw, Mr. Bobulinski says. Now, take a look at this one, which is another one about the nature of the overall Chinese deal.

He said I realize -- this is Bobulinski. I realize that the Chinese were not really focussed on a healthy financial ROI, return on investment. They were looking at this as a political or influence investment. So if a political or influence investment, in which Joe Biden would be a 10 percent partner. And Bobulinski confirms that there were meetings that Joe Biden was at. And discussions about all of this that he was part of.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know why you believe him. I don't know what to think. There is no evidence of this. I know that, in fact, it was Donald Trump who had a bank account in China and who's paying more taxes in China than he is in the United States. But to my mind, Martha, looking at this debate, have at it, Mr. Trump.

Because the more time you spend on this means you are not articulating a vision for a second term. You're not talking about having a healthcare plan. You're not talking about Coronavirus. Those are things that matter to the American people, not a bunch of conspiracy theories that are whacking around the conservative echo chamber.

MACCALLUM: So Jesse, to that point, how much time should the president dedicate to this tonight? And does he run the risk of going down a deep rabbit hole that may not matter to a lot of voters?

WATTERS: Well, Juan said I was going down a rabbit hole. And Juan, I was digging and I dug all the way to China.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Because here is --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: The Chinese communist energy company offering an additional $5 million interest-free loan to the Biden family because they have so much trust if the Biden family. Oh, how about this correspondence? Don't mention Joe being involved. They are paranoid. So I think everybody owes the New York Post an apology. Joe's using his office as a cash register.

This guy has verified emails. These aren't even most of them from Hunter's laptop. So they have Joe now setting up meetings, participating in meetings, scouting potential clients. They have photos of Joe at the Beverly Hilton in Los Angeles on the same day Hunter is talking about setting up a meeting to discuss the China deal where Joe got a 10 percent kickback.

So this story is beginning. There is more out there. You remember. The FBI has an active money laundering investigation regarding this laptop. And I suspect we might hear about Cayman bank accounts. I suspect there could be recordings about this. And the media is really trapped now, because if the media reports it, they destroy their candidate. But if they hide it, then they destroy their credibility. So they have nowhere to go here.

MACCALLUM: Dana, in terms of the president and Joe Biden tonight, how much time do you think the president should spend on this if he want to check all the boxes and have a game changer tonight for his campaign?

PERINO: I think it doesn't really matter what I think, actually. President Trump comes to these debates just planning to do whatever he wants to do, or maybe not planning, and just trusting his instincts. And he obviously feels like this is a really important thing to do, so he is going to do it. And I think if he's going to do it, it just has to be made very clear.

It can't be complicated. And I think that if Biden keeps interrupting him, that will look bad as before. But if I were the president, I would stick to the three-E's, the economy, energy, and extremes, and the extremes being what he said earlier this week. The contrast between what four more years of him would be like for your pocketbook, versus four years under Joe Biden.

MACCALLUM: Greg?

GUTFELD: I just -- it just occurred to me. I am trying to think. Has there ever been a time when the media has counselled Joe Biden on what not to bring up in a debate or how long should he devote to one topic? That's all we have heard. Should he bring this up? What if they bring this secret bank account? It's not a secret bank account if you know it, OK? So I just find it rich.

I have not heard anybody giving advice to Joe about what not to bring up. OK, these emails are not the tick, tick, tick, right? They're the boom, boom, boom. This is not a smoking gun. It's a smoking crack pipe. And because we're closing in on Halloween, I'm going to use an analogy, OK? The news is the bowl of candy that you leave outside when you are not home, and all the kids come over and then they take the best stuff. In that case, it's usually a Kit Kat.

That's the media. They come in and they only pick the stories they want. But right now, the only thing left in that bowl, after it's been picked clean, are the Necco Wafers. And that's the Hunter Biden story. And right now, 8 to 10 days before the election, you have a bowl of Necco Wafers, and the media has got to stuff their mouths with it, because if they ignore it, they are a fraud.

MACCALLUM: Dana wants the Necco Wafers.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: The black ones, too?

GUTFELD: No.

MACCALLUM: The pink ones?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: All right. So coming up next, Joe Biden finally giving an answer on a key issue for millions of voters, what does he plan to do about packing the Supreme Court? We're going to talk about that next, coming up on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Joe Biden finally coming clean with voters and revealing his true stance on packing the Supreme Court, well, sort of. The former VP announcing he will appoint a commission to study reforming the High Court if he wins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I will ask them to over 190 days come back to me with recommendations as to how to reform the court system because it's getting out of whack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you're telling us you're going to study this issue about whether to pack the court?

BIDEN: No, whether there's a number of alternatives that go well beyond packing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a live ball.

BIDEN: Oh, it is a live ball. No, it is a live ball. We're going to have to do that. And you're going to find there are a lot of conservative constitutional scholars who are saying that as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Man, that guy looked out of gas. I don't know, Gutfeld. I mean, why doesn't he appoint a commission to find out what he's going to have for dinner? I mean, make a decision. You are going to be the leader of the free world. You need a commission for this?

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, he is dealing with the hard left contingent in his party. So he could -- I actually started a commission on capitalism. Do we still need capitalism? How about landlords or rent or the police department? Just have commissions for everything. He -- it perfectly reveal -- his answer reveals that his spine is actually a weather vane.

WATTERS: Yeah.

GUTFELD: And it's pretty sad, because he should be taking a stand against the practice that could essentially undermine our entire republic and destroy this country. Court-packing would turn it into a one party nation. But he acted in a way like the Road Runner. He saw a no way out, so he painted a tunnel opening on the wall and he turned and he ran into it. Unfortunately, he's not the Road Runner, so he flattened himself.

WATTERS: Juan, why can't Joe just say, yeah, we're not going to pack the court? You know, if there is an opening, I will fill it?

WILLIAMS: You know, to my mind, Joe Biden is an institutionalist, Jesse. And he's often said way back. He wasn't in favor of any expansion of the number of seats on the court. But I think that at the moment, you know, the GOP is throwing the whole court system out of whack, as he put it, by stacking it. And now, we have a court that's unbalanced.

You have a six to three court right now that looks like it could overturn abortion rights in this country. They overturn the Affordable Care Act and take away protections from people with pre-existing conditions. It would absolutely, absolutely favor big business over the American people especially when it came to --

GUTFELD: Then win an election. Win an election. Don't destroy the court.

WILLIAMS: Let me finish. Let me finish.

GUTFELD: This is an old point.

WILLIAMS: No. Let me finish. It doesn't matter winning elections, Greg, because President Obama won twice and he nominated someone and then the Republicans refused to give that man a hearing. So, I'm glad you mention that. Win an election twice --

GUTFELD: He got almost all of the people through, Juan. We're very nice to you.

WILLIAMS: So to my mind, you know, he's going to take away a lot of the environmental protections if you have a court that's so out of whack. And my thought is, you know what, this is a pretty sober and deliberative approach to something that the country may need to somehow get the federal judiciary balanced again.

WATTERS: All right, well, Dana, throughout history, it's never been 5-4. There's been 6-3, there's been, you know, different variations of justices. This is nothing new.

PERINO: I'd love to be first in line for the interview after Amy Coney Barrett joins the majority and rejecting the administration's health care law -- suit because by all accounts, that is what's going to happen because it is not a good lawsuit, and they should have dropped it a long time ago.

I just think a commission is another word for kicking the can down the road. You remember that President Obama had the Commission on Entitlements on Social Security. They got all these people, like come out of retirement, come help us do all of this work. Did all of that work? It came up with some pretty thoughtful ideas, actually, to help shore up the Social Security system, but it was right before the election, and President Obama was like, yes, no, I'm not for that.

WATTERS: Yes, this kind of reminds me of something Pence brought up when he was at the debate. He said, when Mueller was there and ISIS captivity, there was a time where we needed to act and launch a rescue operation, and Obama Biden, they froze. I just don't think Martha he has a decisive executive leadership style that's going to suit him to be commander in chief and make strong decisive decisions.

MACCALLUM: I mean, nothing says nothing better than a commission, right? Better than saying, let's just have a commission. It's the number one best way in Washington to defer something, to not answer a question directly. We know how Joe Biden stands on this. He made it very clear in the past. He said he was against court packing. He said, FDR said it was a bad idea after he tried it, and it failed, and he believed that it was a bad idea as well.

But now he's talking about the other options. You could have 18-year terms, for instance, or you could have rotating justices from the federal court system. But you can guarantee that if the shoe were on the other foot, they would not be having this conversation at all. The chips have fallen where they may. This is the way the system works. The President got an opportunity to pick someone and the Senate was in the GOP majority in this case, so they are putting it through.

And I think that Amy Coney Barrett gave people a lot of reason to think that policy is not high on the list for the Supreme Court. They're there for another purpose, to judge whether or not a law is constitutional, and I think that should give a lot of people some confidence. I don't think anybody knows how she would vote on any of these issues specifically. So, you know, we'll see where it goes from here.

WATTERS: Yes, we will. Coming up, President Trump feuding with 60 Minutes after a contentious interview. What he did to expose media bias.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Ahead of tonight's big debate, President Trump making claims of media bias. He has been in a battle this week with 60 Minutes over what he says was an unfair interview. Earlier today, the president released his own footage of the sit-down and tweeted look at the bias, hatred and rudeness on behalf of 60 Minutes and CBS.

Tonight's anchor Kristen Welker is far worse. 60 Minutes is now put out a clip of the testy exchange over the economy. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We created the greatest economy in the history of our country. And the other side --

LESLEY STAHL, CBS HOST, "60 MINUTES": You know that -- you know that's not true.

TRUMP: It is totally true.

STAHL: No.

TRUMP: Virtually, every number was the best. We had the best economy ever. And what was happening is things were coming --

Well, I asked you, what's the priority? I mean, those are all the good things. What do you have to solve?

TRUMP: The priority now is to get back to normal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Martha, you've done a lot of interviews, so I'm going to -- and we've now seen the interview, so what question was so unfair?

MACCALLUM: I think it was more of the sort of way that she was sort of knocking him down, not letting him answer the question that he objected to. You know, even in that instance, when I look back at that and I watch that back and forth a few times today, she didn't say why she thinks he's wrong about the economy being the best it's ever been. And he went through his litany of, you know, the employment numbers.

I mean, you know, he could say, you know, well just look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, you know. I mean, it was -- it was as if there wasn't a lot of substance in the follow-up, I wouldn't say, to create the next level of questioning there. So, that's what I would take issue within the interview.

I'm not sure whether or not it was wise to release their version of it. I think there are moments that are not that favorable for the president, especially on health care where he didn't seem to have specific answers about where he was going to take the country in the next four years. So, maybe we'll see them tonight.

WILLIAMS: Dana, you were the press secretary at the White House, and you know that usually these interviews are taped for the National Archives, not as ammunition to retaliate against journalists. I'm wondering if Obama did something like that, you know, to a conservative outlet what would be their reaction?

PERINO: Well, I think like newsflash, Donald Trump is breaking norms. I mean, that's kind of what he does. And I would question like, why even do the interview in the first place? Because I think that he could have said, I don't care that you're doing an interview with Joe Biden, we know how that's going to turn out. Instead, I'm going to go to a rally, and I'm going to get an audience of x-million people and talk to them about what I want to talk about, because I know you're going to be so biased against me.

That's a way that you could handle it, they decided to do it, they decided to put it out. And, you know, I just think that he has won the battle against the media, then he wages. He wages it every single day. And he waged it and 60 Minutes, at this point, this, they're the ones that were the victims of it.

WILLIAMS: Hey, Greg, one question that did seem to stump him was about health care. And it was, "Why doesn't he have a plan?" And then he said something like, oh, well. But if he has a plan, why don't they release it?

GUTFELD: Well, he actually didn't say, oh, well. But we'll -- I don't have time to read the entire thing. I actually watched the entire debate, the entire debate. And there were -- and you have to be thankful that he released this unedited thing because now you know what the media does. The media takes a big slab of, you know, whatever you want to call it, pottery crap, and then sculpts it and manufactures that into its story.

He just showed you the entire tape. You saw that she's a hack. You saw that she was unprepared. She didn't even know the answers to her own questions. And so, when he responded, she looked completely confused. She brought up Hillary and then said he brought up Hillary. She was a parrot of all the media assumptions that you see every day. It was an incredibly lazy performance on her part.

And I was embarrassed for her and -- but I was also thankful that Donald Trump pulled the curtain back, and we can see what's going on. We never got to see that before and I think it's really important.

I'm going to use a Halloween analogy, a scary movie Scream. The teams are getting picked off one by one in the house, and they don't know who it is. It turns out, it's one of the teens. That's the media. They're being picked up every single day. And now, they assume it's Donald Trump, but they're actually killing themselves with their irrational behavior.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, the president likes to say he's a tough guy, but he can't deal with an interview with a respected journalist like Lesley Stahl? He can't handle it?

WATTERS: Oh, he handled it, and he handled her perfectly. And she was exposed. I agree with everything that Greg just said. She was a disgrace during that interview. She should be ashamed of herself and she should retire. She didn't do her homework. She didn't want to do her homework. She came in and said the President's campaign wasn't spied on.

How was it that Jesse Watters of "WATTERS' WORLD" has read the I.G. report and Lesley Stahl hasn't read the I.G. report that she didn't know Carter Page was wiretapped, that they used undercover agents on the campaign, that they use a defensive briefing the spy and the President, that they looked at Flynn's bank records without a subpoena. How does she not know that as a journalist at CBS News?

This is the same CBS News that put out forgeries for George W. Bush before the election, but she's worried about this Hunter stuff not being verified. I'll tell you how to verify it. Do what Fox did. Do you know what they did? They called the guy with the e-mail address on the email and said, is this real? And he goes yes, it's real. It's verified. How hard was that, CBS?

WILLIAMS: All right, up next, it's the Battle of the Presidents Barack Obama lays in the Donald Trump and Trump is firing back next on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: A special song for a special week. Former President Obama campaigning for Joe Biden and going after President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tweeting at the television doesn't fix things. Making stuff up doesn't make people's lives better. He's treating the presidency like a reality show that he can use to get attention. And by the way, even then his T.V. ratings are down.

The thing is this is not a reality show, this is reality. Donald Trump isn't suddenly going to protect all of us. He can't even take the basic steps to protect himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: And -- victim shaming. And President Trump is responding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: President Obama is campaigning for Sleepy Joe Biden, and I said, that's good news or bad news? Tell me. Are you saying it's good or it's bad? Like I suspect, no, it's good. There was nobody that campaigned harder for Crooked Hillary Clinton than Obama, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: There you go. You know, Martha had to take off and do her show at six, so I'll go -- I'll start with you, Dana. I think this is pretty awful. Here you have, obviously, one of the greatest, groundbreaking, ceiling shattering president, a role model for tens of millions of Americans, beloved by all, being attacked by Obama.

PERINO: I saw where that was headed. I saw where that was headed. Well done.

GUTFELD: I set that up. I set that one up for you. Beautiful foliage.

PERINO: You know, I have -- isn't it that nice? It's so pretty. It's so pretty. Did I say that or did you say that the other night?

WATTERS: You can't tell where -- you can't tell where her hair ends and the foliage begins.

GUTFELD: I'm sorry.

PERINO: It's OK. It's fine. I know. We missed us. So, I was thinking last night between the two of them. The campaign that both of them really relish waging is against each other. I think that President Obama believes that he would have beat President Trump and I think President Trump has always wanted to run against Barack Obama. So, it is kind of interesting to see them in the last days of this campaign finally go at it.

GUTFELD: Juan, could we make it so that if Trump loses this election, he runs again in 2024 against Michelle Obama?

WILLIAMS: Well, that's no race. But I don't know. You know, that's an -- you know, your mind is interesting. That was an interesting thought. But I must say, I thought Obama landed a lot of punches last night. The best one, the best one for anyone who wants to go look is when he talked about Trump's Chinese bank account and paying taxes and he said, if he had done that, they would have called him Beijing Barry. I thought that was a memorable line. I can see that one hanging around for a while.

GUTFELD: That's a pretty clever nickname.

WATTERS: I'm just stealing it, and I'll just going to say Beijing Biden. Thanks, Juan. But I did notice, no one showed up to hear Barack Obama speak in Philly. There was like less than 100 people while Donald Trump had about 26,000 people in North Carolina. I think tonight, you know what Donald Trump should do? I think he should offer to pardon, Joe Biden. Because that way Joe can rest easy that if, you know, when he loses, he's not going to go to prison.

GUTFELD: That's very funny. That's a great line. All right, "ONE MORE THING" up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "ONE MORE THING." There's only four of us. We got some extra time. Greg, you want to use yours wisely?

GUTFELD: Yes. I'd like to do one of my poems I wrote in college. It's approximately 13 pages, and it's about my stomach.

PERINO: OK.

GUTFELD: No, we're going to do this. Greg's Unbelievably Amazing News. Yes, yes, it's finally here. President Trump and Joe Biden face off in the final debate tonight. And remember, you can be part of it. Fox News Democracy 2020 Live is there for you with instant analysis, access to the candidates' trivia -- I love trivia -- and live up to the second blog with our very own precious and delicious, Chad Pergram and, of course, the delightful Chris Stirewalt. Yes, he's everywhere.

All you have to do is bookmark this page foxnews.com/2020live or use the camera on your phone. It's there. Just scan the QR code. How easy is that, that you see on your screen? And that's it. So, stop what you're doing and scan in right now.

You also have another chance to hop in right before the debate. Oh, wow, saucy. Fox News Democracy 2020 Live is the singular experience you won't find anywhere else. That's redundant. We didn't need that second part of the sentence. It all starts one hour before the debate. That's 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here.

WATTERS: Oh, my god. You know what? Well done, Greg. I can plug --

PERINO: I was going to say, you can really sell it. Way to sell it. I was super, super impressed. I'd love -- you want to keep the music going for mine. I think she deserves it. And so we're here in Nashville, of course, have you heard? And I wanted to share this for -- with you. Desiree Robinson is the co-founder of the legendary Memphis barbecue joint called Cozy Corner and she received a prestigious honor on Tuesday.

She was inducted into the American Royals Barbecue Hall of Fame. Desiree and her late husband, Raymond, opened the restaurant in 1977. And since then, it's become a multi-generational family's success, talk about the American dream. At the age of 83, Desiree is also the first black woman inducted into the Barbecue Hall of Fame.

So, next time we're in Tennessee, we are definitely going to make a trip to the cozy corner and get some ribs for you, Greg.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes.

PERINO: And your congratulations, Desiree. Juan, you're next.

WILLIAMS: Oh, well, as Dana mentioned, we're in Nashville and it's the Country Music capital. And there was some news today other than a debate that has the locals talking. It was announced today the trailblazing country music star Charley Pride will become the six, only the sixth winner of a lifetime achievement award at the CMA's later this year. You're listening to one of his 29 number one hits in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It's called Kiss an Angel Good Morning.

Pride is now 86, was named the CMA Entertainer of the Year in 1971 and the Male Artist of the Year in both 71 and 72. He has three Grammys and is already in the Country Music Hall of Fame. Congratulations to Charley Pride.

PERINO: Indeed. I love that song. I love it. Jesse Watters?

WATTERS: I'm feeling like Low Energy Jeb sitting next to God filled over here. I don't know. I can -- I can step up the way he just did. I'll try. And no offense to Low Energy Jeb, we love the Bushes here. It's Jesse's Political Cookie News.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes.

WATTERS: There it is. All right, you know how like, you can tell who's gonna win the election by the kind of Halloween costumes, like, if someone buys the Obama mask or the Trump mask, that's the determining factor? Well, we have Who Buys the Trump Cookie or the Biden Cookie, all right.

Now, this is a local bakery in Hatboro, Pennsylvania. Lochel -- I don't know how to say it, L-O-C-H-E-L. And it's a battleground state if case you haven't heard. So, I'm going to tell you how many cookies of each candidate they've sold so far, all right. Joe Biden cookies have sold at approximately a pace of 2,800. And they have sold 10,500 cookies of Donald Trump.

So, I think people need to start hitting the polls for Joe Biden in Pennsylvania because it's not looking good there. I'm going to take a bite -- I'm going to take a bite of Trump's. Delicious.

PERINO: I love that.

WATTERS: Delicious.

PERINO: I think there's a good poll. That's not a fake poll. And by the way, my bump out music was supposed to be the new Dierks Bentley song Gone. I don't know what happened. We'll try it again tomorrow. But if you're in Nashville -- it just came out today. I am shaming the producer. That's my song. He's waiting for me here.

GUTFELD: I don't think Dierks was watching --

PERINO: Special coverage of the presidential debate with Bret and Martha.

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