Ex-Bannon associate reacts to White House role; Gingrich blasts critics of Trump staff picks

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 14, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, just 24 hours into President-elect Donald Trump's rollout of his White House staff, and he's already driving critics wild with a powerful new position for a close and controversial advisor.

Good evening and welcome to “The Kelly File” everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. The fallout continues tonight after Mr. Trump announced that two of the men who helped guide his historic presidential campaign will be his closest confidant inside the walls of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Reince Priebus, the departing Republican National Committee chairman will become Mr. Trump's chief of staff.

And Steve Bannon, the controversial former executive chairman of the conservative website Breitbart News will become Mr. Trump's chief strategist and senior counselor in the White House. It is Mr. Bannon's selection that's causing waves tonight. In moments, we'll be joined by Trump supporter and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich who may also be playing a big role in the new administration.

And we'll also talk to Kurt Bardella, who worked with Steve Bannon at Breitbart for years. But first, we begin with Chief Washington Correspondent James Rosen with the new reaction to the latest move from the President-elect. James?

JAMES ROSEN, FOX NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, good evening.  Top Republicans tonight are urging the left and even some on the right who are dismayed by President-elect Trump's appointment of Stephen Bannon as a top White House adviser, to give the man a chance. Bannon is the rough- edge Trump campaign CEO named now as chief strategist and senior counselor at the White House. While former naval office Bannon brought a measure of managerial confidence to the Trump campaign, but it was under his leadership that Breitbart, the conservative website began to appeal to the so-called alt-right.

With headlines excoriating Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol as a, quote, "Renegade Jew and asserting notions like birth control makes women unattractive and crazy." The spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said, quote, "It is easy to see why the KKK views Trump as their champion when Trump appoints one of the four most peddlers of White Supremacist themes and rhetoric as his top aide."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breitbart does give me a real pause about sometimes they're going well beyond accepted norms and frankly expressing view point are just not consistent with my values and I think many Americans as well.


ROSEN: It was also unusual that Bannon's rank will be co-equal to that of Reince Priebus, the Republican National Committee chairman tacked now to serve as chief-of-staff. Traditionally the chief of staff has enjoyed privacy in running the White House. Today Priebus defended the appointment of his co-equal.


REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: The Steve Bannon I know is that guy that is really on the same page with a lot of things -- almost everything that I agree with as far as advising President-elect Trump. So, I haven't seen any of these things that people are crying out about. But look, it's a good team. I think if people saw the last few months in the campaign, it worked very well.


ROSEN: Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway told reporters at Trump Tower today that Priebus and Bannon complement each other adding, they both have the most important thing, the ear of the boss -- Megyn.

KELLY: James, great to see you.

Joining us on this and the rest of the White House transition, Newt Gingrich, former Republican speaker of the House and co-author of the new book, "Rediscovering God in America." He's got another one, I just saw "Treason" in an airport today.


I can't keep up with them, Mr. Speaker.


KELLY: Also with us is Kurt Bardella. He is the president and CEO of Endeavor Strategist and he worked for Bannon as a media consultant at Breitbart News.

Let's start with you Kurt on Mr. Bannon. I mean, I've read a lot of things about him. His detractors say he pushes a racist, misogynist agenda, but what is the actual evidence of that?

KURT BARDELLA, ENDEAVOR STRATEGIST, PRESIDENT AND CEO: Well, I think if you look at the litany of headlines that have run across Breitbart News for the last two years, headlines about women shouldn't be reporting in tech.  Women in the birth control issue with Planned Parenthood. You see an agenda form.

KELLY: But you know his defenders would say, that he's not responsible for every headline that goes on Breitbart and he didn't write those pieces.

BARDELLA: When you're at the top of the organization chart and an organization, what happens below you and what happens frequently, you have two choices, you can address it and say, this isn't who we are, this isn't who we believe and we shouldn't be doing these things or you don't do anything and you're willfully saying that that's okay.

KELLY: Well, you worked with him. For how many years?

BARDELLA: For almost two years.

KELLY: Okay. And so, what was your experience?

BARDELLA: My experience there was there were no issues at all when headlines like that were run, when media inquiries came in and asking, what do you think of these things? You guys stand by that. There was never any type of retraction, walking back, concession that maybe they went a little too far with some of the stuff. They were very happy when they got that kind of attention actually.

KELLY: Do you believe he believes in those principles if you will or do you believe he is just a provocateur looking to generate clicks and detention?

BARDELLA: I think it's probably a little bit of both. I mean, when you look out his plan put into action during the Trump campaign, it's not like they ran away from those themes, they embraced them. They played off of them. And it's been a recipe for success for them so far, as evidence for the fact that Trump's in the White House right now and Steve is now in this very high profile co-chief of staff role.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

BARDELLA: But at the end of the day, actions speak louder than anything.  And their actions kind of speak for themselves.

KELLY: But, you know, Steve Bannon -- obviously Trump control himself. I mean, I think we've seen that Trump really answers to no man or woman. He controls his own approach. But Steve Bannon did sort of call the possibility of a Donald Trump as early as 2010. Listen to this, in 2010, I mean, he was talking about what the future holds. He says, it's going to be an insurgent, center right populist movement that is -- that is a tough word, very fluently anti-establishment, and it's going to continue to hammer this city, Washington, both the progressive left and the institutional Republican Party. I mean, that was 2010.

BARDELLA: Yes, right after the Tea Party.

KELLY: So, we can see why Trump was attracted to him.

BARDELLA: Oh, they're made for each other here. Because you have two people who are provocateurs. Who do like being contrarians who enjoy pressing buttons and who have an issue with the status quo in Washington.  And Trump, Steve found the first political figure to really symbolize that that he can martial his platform around. And in Steve, Trump found an audience that existed for that message. They're a perfect match.

KELLY: Do you think that Steve Bannon that those kinds of comments and so on, the headlines of Breitbart, would be pushed as an agenda? You know, an anti-woman, anti-minority, anti-gay agenda. Trump certainly, I mean -- well, you tell me.

BARDELLA: Yes, I think it's an agenda. I mean, I think any time that you're doing something as frequently as they have been with the audience and the size that they have, and the profile that they've built off of that, I don't know how you can say anything else other than that's clearly an agenda, that they're being pushed.

KELLY: How does that make you feel if you feel that way and you work with the man closely for a couple of years?

BARDELLA: Well, that's part of the reason why I left. And I said this publicly back in March that I personally could not be a part of something like this anymore. And I believe that when you can't do your job honestly and to the best of your ability, that's when it's time to walk away. And that's why I did.

KELLY: Are you all worried now being on the opposite side of Bannon given his ascension?

BARDELLA: No. No. I mean first of all, if Steve Bannon is a co-White House chief of staff has nothing better to do than try to go after my life and livelihood. That's concerning all to itself, but at the end of the day, I think that he has bigger fish to fry.

KELLY: Uh-hm. Kurt, great to see you.

BARDELLA: Thanks for having me on, Megyn.

KELLY: Thanks for coming on. And now we turn to Newt Gingrich, former Republican speaker of the House. Mr. Speaker, good to have you back.

GINGRICH: Good to be with you.

KELLY: So, you've heard these reports about Steve Bannon and really, I'll show the viewers some of the headlines. And you know, he didn't write these, but he was the executive chairman of Breitbart when some of this went up and here is a couple. He called, not he, Breitbart referred to Bill Kristol as a renegade Jew. It was written by a Jewish author by still the solution online harassment is simple. Women should log off with another one. Here's a couple more for you. Stand by. They'll put them out there.

Birth control makes women unattractive and crazy. Would you rather your child had feminism or cancer? And then there was these chestnuts, gay rights have made us dumber. Fat shaming works. So, those are the kinds of headlines that had people saying, hmmm, was this the big choice? Your thoughts.

GINGRICH: Well, first of all, there's a big difference between the kind of stuff they did at Breitbart which was designed to attract audiences and was actually very successful and lots of people tuned in partly out of amusement. It's like we and the Daily Mail every day from London. I mean, there are all sorts of stuffs there and you keep finding yourself doing it.


GINGRICH: Bannon is a very serious guy. Callista and I have worked with him on several movies. We know him pretty well. He is very deeply concerned that Washington has grown corrupt. Way to large as the government. A threat to our liberties. And he feels those things very deeply. He's also a former naval officer who has served this country very patriotically. Played a big role in the election of Donald Trump.

I thought what Trump did was frankly very smart. He took Reince Priebus who had done probably the best job as RNC chairman in modern history. Put him in as the daily coordinator as chief of staff, but then he said look, I want a guy who's going to think about the fights we're going to be in and he's going to be enthusiastic about those fights. And he gave -- in some ways, yes, I think I ended up giving Bannon the equivalent of the Karl Rove job or the Axelrod job in previous administrations.

KELLY: And that's what Bannon has said, that he's a fighter. And he liked to buff up, you know, Washington, he doesn't like the establishment. And that's what Trump is. That is what a lot of Trump's voters and supporters wanted.

Now, let me ask you about the news and a potential cabinet appointments.  Tonight, the AP is reporting that Rudy Giuliani is the favorite, they're saying the favorite for secretary of state. Do you have any information on that?

GINGRICH: I have no information, but if Rudy wants it, he'll get it. Rudy has probably been the closest surrogate, he and Senator Sessions have been the two closest surrogates to President-elect Trump. He has done a great job. He has worked his heart out. I thought he might prefer Attorney General where he would be brilliant or Homeland Security where his experience at 9/11 will be great. I think he'll be fabulous to have him as Secretary of State. He's already known worldwide. He is a great manager.  And he would do a lot both to represent America, which is what we need, and to reform the State Department. Which we need. So, I'd be very enthusiastic if he picks Rudy to be secretary of state.

KELLY: Some are saying, Jeff Sessions will probably go Secretary of Defense and that Laura Ingraham may be under consideration for press secretary and another position in the administration which she did not shoot down when she was on Tucker Carlson's new show today at 7 by the way.

Possibly, General Michael Flynn for NSA and what about you, Mr. Speaker?  Are you being considered for a position and is there one you have your eye on?

GINGRICH: Well, I want to be the general planner looking out over the next eight years and trying to design how we fundamentally reshape the federal government. And that's a very broad job. The closest analogy probably is Harry Hopkins and the work he did for Franklin Delano Roosevelt. But let me just say it for a second about Sessions, Senator Sessions was the most loyal, the earliest supporter of Trump in Washington. He would be a great as Attorney General because he spent 13 years in the Justice Department, and was Attorney General of Alabama. He would also be tremendous at the Department of Defense. I would be very enthusiastic whatever he and the President-elect decide.

KELLY: Now, Trump is getting hit tonight in some corners because he is asking for top secret clearance for his children in the Trump administration. And the conflict his detractors say is that he has said his adult children are going to be running the Trump organization and that it would be inappropriate or wrong to have them maintain this active business interest with international ties, and both have access to top secret information. Is that -- do they have a point?

GINGRICH: Look, I think when you look at how Hillary Clinton totally views the system, I would sure trust Ivanka or Donald or Don, Jr. or Eric, heck a lot more than Hillary Clinton. And I think that they would keep the secrets. The objective fact is, this is a president-elect who's going to rely very closely on his family, including Jared Kushner, Ivanka's husband.  The four of them really form his brain system. These are people he trusts, he loves, he feels comfortable with. I think the President of the United States ought to be able to designate the people he wants advice from. And I think that these four are going to be tremendous assets to the United States of America.

KELLY: Uh-huh. But just to press you once more on that, the critics are suggesting that not necessarily that they couldn't be trusted to not reveal the top secret information, but that it poses an interesting dilemma, conflict for them in making business decisions --

GINGRICH: Yes, I'll tell you what.

KELLY: -- about foreign countries that they actually have some top secret knowledge about.

GINGRICH: I'll tell you what, the first time they come in with a $25 million check from the Saudis, they come in with a million dollar birthday check from Gutter or they come in with special deals from a variety of international people. Precisely like Bill Clinton for a long time --

KELLY: We didn't know about that.

GINGRICH: Well, of course you could. I'll start to worry about it.

KELLY: But we wouldn't. We wouldn't know about that.

GINGRICH: Yes. Historically, we were a country where people like John Foster Dallas could be a great international lawyer and a very powerful secretary of state. Historically, we thought you had to have people who were competent and knew things and they actually could work together. It's only in the last 30 or 40 years we got this whacky idea that if you actually know something and succeed in something, you're probably not appropriately involved in government. So you end up with people in government who don't know anything and can't do anything.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

GINGRICH: I think this is something we ought to explore carefully. There should clearly be rules, there might well have to be certain amount of transparency. And then frankly, the Trump family has to decide. Are they going to live with that transparency? There's no question you're asking an important question about this. And I think that we have to explore it, but in principle, having the President have an ability to talk candidly with people who are very, very close to him, I think is a good thing, not a bad thing.

KELLY: Mr. Speaker, thank you for being here and congratulations.

GINGRICH: Thank you. Thank you.

KELLY: Congratulations on Donald Trump's win.

Well even before the President-elect takes office, some Democratic mayors are already staging a result. Pledging to fight any new White House effort to endorse immigration laws. Have you heard about this? It's spreading now.

Judge Andrew Napolitano is next on what is shaping up to be an explosive show down in more than one city.

Plus, six days and some in the media are still having a meltdown over the results of the election. We'll speak with Howard Kirk and Mollie Hemmingway about where this is going, next.


MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, SENIOR WRITER, THE FEDERALIST: The media definitely -- they clearly and overtly and even told us that they wanted Hillary to win and they gambled everything, including their credibility on defeating Donald Trump and electing Hillary Clinton and they lost.



KELLY: Breaking tonight, six days since the election and some in the media are still publicly struggling with how to deal with the results of last Tuesday. Just in the last 24 hours, we saw New York Times columnist Charles Blow complaining that, quote, "We are living in two diverging Americas at odds and at battle. Trump's America won this round." E.J. Dionne, Jr. of the Washington Post writing quote, "Let's be clear, the United States of America is not Donald Trump's country." And in the same publication, Jonathan Capehart writes about, quote, "Why millions fear the looming Trump presidency." Adding, "President-elect Trump has made promises that represent a real, that represent a threat to real lives and livelihoods. Some are unconstitutional. All are immoral."

Joining me now, Howard Kurtz, host of "MediaBuzz" and Mollie Hemmingway, senior editor at the Federalist. Great to see you both. So, Mollie, let me ask you, do you take issue with those headlines?

HEMMINGWAY: Oh, I mean, it's just been kind of surprising to see how poorly many in our media have handled this election. Part of it is just that they are in liberal bubbles and that the people that they're surrounded by are also struggling, so they're kind of focused on that side of the story, but a big part of it is that they can't really come to terms with Donald Trump being president until they come to terms of just how profoundly they failed to cover this election well.

And this is not just about the polls, this is not about trusting in them too much. It's about really misunderstanding the nature of the race, misunderstanding how Hillary Clinton was viewed by a lot of Americans as well as Donald Trump, and then most importantly I think profoundly misunderstanding who Donald Trump voters were. And you see that in these headlines you just pointed out, there is still a hostility and an inability to even try to understand what motivated his supporters.

KELLY: Howie, do you agree with that?

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": Liberal commentators have entitled to their opinions but some that have been really ugly and refusing to accept the outcome of this election, Megyn and they continue to attack Donald Trump. They continue to call the people who voted for Donald Trump racist and morons, we're talking here about 60 million American voters. And some of them are beating up on the press because it was our job, somehow, to stop Donald Trump. Which of course it was not our job. But I'm even more troubled by the elements of the mainstream media that are still hostile to varying degrees toward the guy who had won six days ago.

KELLY: Now, how do you square this with the genuine controversies that Trump himself created, right? Because the media had, he can't have the "Access Hollywood" buzz thing break and then have 12 women come forward and saying that he insulted them and ignore it. Right? And so, how do you scare Mollie things like all the controversy Trump himself created. You know, like, hey, there's my African-American and the Mexico is not sending its best people and all that stuff that he did generate controversy with, with media bias.

HEMINGWAY: Well, all of those things are real and everybody is very familiar with all of Donald Trump's weaknesses. This is where I think it gets back to the fundamentals of the race and what actually motivated voters. I mean, one of the things that's interesting about the Hillary Clinton campaign, they wanted to focus on Donald Trump's personality. And that did make for very good copy and very good TV and there's a reason why we focus on it, because it's very dramatic. At the same time, there were serious policy issues in play, support for his plans on immigration, foreign policy, economic policy as well as something that I think even, you know, many people who did kind of pick-up on these things didn't realize which is a very big frustration with political correctness itself.

KELLY: Uh-huh.

HEMINGWAY: And people are just kind of sick of that kind of focus and they're punching back.

KELLY: Uh-huh, that's true, the political correctness thing is real, Howie, and we've been covering it for years now. And I do think that there is a segment, you tell me, of media, that doesn't get that and just things that there's something wrong with you if you don't want to clean up our language, our politician's language and language as a society.

KURTZ: I think it's worse than that. I think for some in the media, there's something wrong with you if you somehow supported Donald Trump.  And not seeing that the country has moved to a different place. Now it's fine for journalists to continue to report aggressively on President-elect Trump, but let me just read you one sentence from a New York Times new story. This is when President-elect Trump visited President Obama at the White House. Mr. Trump whose campaign drew support from White supremacist groups sat in front of a bus of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

It's that kind of thing that sends a signal that we're not over it, we're not going to get over it. Now the Time's editor and publisher did put out sort of a modified mea culpa, we underestimated Trump. But this kind of thing just signals that it's almost like announcing. We're going to be in the loyal opposition for the next four years instead of giving you guy a fair shot at showing he can't be president.

KELLY: Yep. And I mean, to diminish it, you know, 60 million voters as summed up by the White supremacists who did support him doesn't quite get it.

Mollie, let me ask you, because some in the media, like we saw in New York magazine with this cover, before the election, before the election, right?  So, you wonder why some in, you know, in the general population think that some in the media are not being fair. They have an agenda. They have their thumb on their scale when it comes to now President-elect Trump.

HEMINGWAY: Well, and clearly they did. And people were very overt about that. There's actually a benefit to that. We had a lot of people come and just admit that they thought their job was to keep Donald Trump from becoming president and to help Hillary Clinton get into office. It's good to know where people stand. Unfortunately, there's been therefore a complete destruction of that trust relationship between viewers, readers, listeners, and the media. And so the media needed to a very good job of first of all, coming to terms with just how serious the failure was. And they really need to start doing that quickly because it hasn't happened yet. Then they also need to just start reporting the news and not telling people what to think about it. Their spin is not nearly as crafty as they think it is and people are seeing through it.

KELLY: Uh-hm. And they are may be out of touch with, you know, flyover country, real Americans. Not that you're not a real American on the coast, but just Americans who live in the heartland, who just have different values and see the world differently than the people media surround themselves with.

HEMINGWAY: All Americans are real Americans, but you're not seeing a lot of diversity in American newsrooms. And so, I think that people who run newspapers, magazines, and radio programs and television programs, they really need to make sure that they're getting an intellectual diversity in those newsrooms.

KELLY: True. True. However, Howie, that is not -- I mean, let's be honest here, many of the Trump supporters were -- I mean, incendiary in their hate for certain reporting. And I'm not referring to anybody in particular, but certain reporting that was critical of Donald Trump or skeptical of Donald Trump that was right on the money. You know, controversies that he generated.

KURTZ: There's no question that all of us in the news business when we did do a legitimate questioning of the incendiary statements Trump has made, or things about his record got a lot of ugliness and abuse online. And I'm not excusing that. But look at the coverage, a muted coverage of these protests. Imagine if Hillary Clinton had won and Trump supporters were out there demonstrating in city and saying, not my president and in some cases engaging in --

KELLY: They're all sexist. They'd be saying they're all sexist --

KURTZ: Exactly. Exactly.

KELLY: If it had been President Obama, they're racist, I know, and we've seen the double standard. Great to see you both.

KURTZ: Same here, Megyn.

KELLY: So, two weeks ago, President Obama was telling the world that Donald Trump was unfit for office.

Just ahead, we'll show you what happened when reporters today asked if Mr. Trump if he stands by that statement.

Plus, some Democratic mayors are now threatening to go to war with the Trump White House over any new federal efforts to crack down on sanctuary cities.

Judge Andrew Napolitano is here on the legal fight and then David Wohl and Julie Roginsky join us on the political fallout, next.


RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO MAYOR: To be clear about what Chicago is, it always will be a sanctuary city.



ANNOUNCER: From the World Headquarters of FOX News, it's THE KELLY FILE, with Megyn Kelly.

KELLY: A defiant message to President-elect Donald Trump from a former White House Chief of Staff. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel suggesting in a news conference today that Chicago will remain a so-called sanctuary city, where police are not obligated to cooperate with immigration officials or so say their local leaders. Trace Gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom with the report, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn today marks the third time since Donald Trump was elected president that Mayor Rahm Emanuel has publicly pushed back against Trump's immigration policies, watch.


EMANUEL: To all those who are after Tuesday's election very nervous, is filled with anxiety has been spoken to, you are safe in Chicago. You are secure in Chicago. And you are supported in Chicago.


GALLAGHER: The mayor did not promise to protect illegal immigrants with criminal records, which for now is exactly who Donald Trump is targeting, so he said last night on "60 minutes." But the very definition of a sanctuary city means that local law enforcement don't cooperate with federal immigration authorities. And thousands of criminal illegal immigrants are released on U.S. streets every year.

Like the 2015 case of Francisco Lopez Sanchez who was convicted of seven times, deported five times, and despite federal agents asking San Francisco authorities to hold him, Lopez Sanchez was released got hold of a gun and killed Kate Steinly. President-elect Trump has promised to battle sanctuary cities by cutting off federal funds, costing places like Chicago billions of dollars. It remains unclear if blocking funds would need congressional approval or could be done with executive order.

What is clear is that a Trump administration with new Chief Strategist Steve Bannon and Chief of Staff Reince Priebus appear likely to favor a very tough anti-immigration stance. Along with Chicago Mayor Emanuel, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio and Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti are vowing to maintain their sanctuary status, Megyn.

KELLY: Trace thanks, joining me now, Fox News Senior Judicial Analyst, Judge Andrew Napolitano. Good to see you, Judge.


KELLY: Can they do this? Legally can the mayor say no to president Trump, once he takes office?

NAPOLITANO: Ok. Here's what the mayors are not doing. They are not hiding people from the feds. They are just refusing to provide data and information to the feds. And the Supreme Court has ruled the federal government cannot commandeer local police and make them work for them. So even though this will be frustrating to a President Trump and he probably will have to find some way to sanction them financially.

KELLY: That is what he is saying. He is promising to cancel all federal funding to them.

NAPOLITANO: He can't do that unilaterally, but I'm sure, once Republicans controlling both houses of the congress, he could put into expenditure and block grants to cities. You must do the following things in order to qualify for the block grants. But it's a basic principle of constitutional law that the federal government cannot force the states or the towns and cities to work for it. So Mayor Emanuel, Mayor de Blasio, Mayor Garcetti are within their legal rights to do what they're doing.

KELLY: But what's happens is sanctuary cities get carried out a number of different ways, like for example like in Chicago, they originally just stopped all city agencies from inquiring about immigration status when they provide services. It's like don't ask don't tell, we don't to want know.  And in other cities, they just refuse to cooperate with ICE, issues of detainer on an individual. Its like, didn't happen, and didn't see it.

NAPOLITANO: That stuff can have unattended consequences that the locals are not going to want. The type of people that Donald Trump is talking about is not your average ma and pa. He is talking about someone who has been convicted.

KELLY: Like Francisco Hernandez.

NAPOLITANO: Convicted of a crime, gets out of jail and is now free, but illegally present.

KELLY: Uh-huh.

NAPOLITANO: Allowing that person to stay in Chicago is going to harm the citizens of Chicago.

KELLY: So what are the federal government rights? I mean if Donald Trump tries to take away funding and he gets something passed that says you're federal funding is done, until you comply with the law and until you actually do inquire about immigration status or enforce the ICE detainers, I mean it's a real show of will against between the federal government and the state.

NAPOLITANO: Look at how hard up the cities is for cash. The federal government's going to be dangling billions in front of them, they're probably going to cave on this, because they'll want the cash. And if they don't cave and don't get the cash, there'll be tremendous local political pressure on them to do so, but they are legally and constitutionally within their right to say to the federal government, we're not going to work for you.

KELLY: Great to see you, judge.

NAPOLITANO: Thank you.

KELLY: Joining me more on the politics, David Wohl, Trump supporter and attorney and Julie Roginsky, Democratic Analyst and Fox News Contributor, great to see you both.



KELLY: So politically, you tell me whether this is a test. This could be one of the first big tests for President Trump if these mayors and these various cities, New York, L.A., Seattle, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Chicago just defy him, David.

WOHL: Yeah, I have no doubt about it, Megyn. I mean this is more than just the mayor and the police chief in Los Angeles for example, choosing federal law or state law or vice versa. They're creating policies that are in complete prevention of any law. And what they're doing, they're doing it for political purposes. Obviously they want votes from the people they feel that they're protecting and I got to say, you know, it's not going to work, because Trump's going to come after him. He wants these people out of the country, two to three million violent criminals, he wants them gone.  He cut off funding. He can also prosecute for obstruction of justice for aiding and abetting a felon, for -- with accessory to after the fact, so many felony charges that could be brought by the new attorney general if he decides to do that.

KELLY: Not for just not inquiring about immigration status. You can't prosecute them for that.

WOHL: For example, when they're released for jail, they have an immigration hold, but that they ignore. Like you said, it's actively obstructing the feds from carrying out the responsibilities that leads to much more to what you have just said.

KELLY: Not carrying out the ICE container.

WOHL: Just negligence.

KELLY: Yeah because the ICE, Immigration enforcement can't run in there and detain everybody. They issue the detainer and relying on the local authorities if a guy gets arrested, detain him, who is in some of these sanctuary cities, Julie they don't. So you tell me how you see it.

ROGINSKY: Well, let's talk about the fact that sanctuary cities don't just include violent criminals which we all agree should be locked up and I have no problem with supporting those that are truly violent. Not people who could have tickets, because they are pulled over, but people who commit violent crimes. But you know there are unattended consequences, let's say you're a 15-year-old girl whose parents are here illegally, you are a girl who get assaulted, you're afraid to call the police and report it because if the police comes in to your house, you are afraid for your parents are going to be potentially be arrested, detained, and deported. Do when you're talking about sanctuary cities, let's not just talk about the violent criminals which we all agree should be prosecuted and should be detained and deported, but you're talking about people who are here who are not committing any crime.

KELLY: But the flip side of that Julie, the flipside of that is the tolerance for people, this is the other side. Who are in the country illegally, we see situations like Francisco Hernandez who murdered Kate Steinly and so, the people who want this policy say it's not worth it.  They have empathy for the 15-year-old girl, but they have empathy for Kate Steinly and her family too.

ROGINSKY: Well I have too much sympathy for Kate Steinly. The killer should never have been released from (inaudible).


KELLY: But he was, in a sanctuary city.

ROGINSKY: No question --

WOHL: Yeah.

ROGINSKY: He was, let me just finish this, he was and should not have been. He was obviously a criminal, but I'm talking about that 15-year-old girl and there are many more of those people than violent criminals who will be scared to cooperate with local law enforcement which will lead to crimes, because community.


KELLY: Other crimes would go up.

WOHL: Precisely for sanctuary cities, precisely allow people like the man who murdered Kate Steinly to stay there without fear of being deported and that is the problem. Mr. Trump is going on a case by case basis will not involve deporting the young girl, you are describing, it will involve deporting the 15 rather the two to three million violent criminals that needed to be deported. And Barack Obama by the way had ignored completely.

ROGINSKY: No, excuse me. Barack Obama deported more people than those under him.

WOHL: Why are they in the country then?

KELLY: Barack Obama deportations are largely catch and release at the border. We have to leave it at that, great to see you both.

ROGINSKY: All right. Thank you.

WOHL: Thank you.

KELLY: Anti-Trump protesters that want college campus claim their first scalp after one professor shares the dissenting view.  Take a picture.  Take a guess what that professor's view was. We'll show you what happened.

And up next, see what happens when reporters asked Mr. Obama if he still thinks President-elect Trump is unfit for office.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now that you've spent time with him for an hour and a half in the oval office, do you now think that President-elect Trump is qualified to be president?




PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: On the economy, Donald Trump is uniquely unqualified to be our Chief executive. That is why most CEO's don't support him. On foreign policy, Donald Trump is temperamentally unfit to be Commander in Chief. Don't take my word for it.  Listen to the Republicans who've refused to support him. Over the weekend, his campaign took away his twitter account, because he is erratic. If his closest advisors don't trust him to tweet, why would any of us trust him with the nuclear codes?


KELLY: That was President Obama one week ago, the night before the election. Here's what happened when reporters asked about those remarks at a press conference this afternoon.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said more than once that you would not believe that Donald Trump would ever be elected president and you thought he was unfit for the office. Now that you've spent time with him for an hour and a half in the oval office, do you now think that President-elect Trump is qualified to be president?

OBAMA: You know, I think that he successfully mobilized a big chunk of the country to vote for him, and he is going to win. He has won. He is going to be the next president. And regardless of what experience or assumptions he brought to the office, this office has a way of waking you up. Some of his gifts that obviously allowed him to execute one of the biggest political upsets in history, those are ones that hopefully he will put to good use on behalf of all the American people.


KELLY: Politics is weird. Mo Elleithee is the founding executive director of the Georgetown University Institute of Politics and Public Service and Carl Higbie is the spokesperson for the Great America PAC, great to see you both.


KELLY: Oh not anymore?


KELLY: Are you moving into the administration?

HIGBIE: No, not yet, but the PAC is dissolved that day after. I can say whatever I want.

KELLY: Yeah. I predicted the future in the administration for Carl Higbie, you heard it here first.

HIGBIE: We'll see.

KELLY: I know now nothing, I am just predicting.

Ok, let me ask you, Mo, I actually thought President Obama's willingness to sound a more conciliatory, hopeful tone about Donald Trump who he clearly does not like, spoke well of him. What'd you think?

MO ELLEITHEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY INSTITUTE OF POLITICS: Yeah, I agree. Look, I don't think there's any question that President Obama was not a fan of Donald Trump heading into the election.

KELLY: Vice versa.

ELLEITHEE: Or vice-versa, I think I'm putting it mildly to say that, but I think everything he has said since then has been exactly what he should say.

KELLY: Uh-huh.

ELLEITHEE: It is his job. It is his responsibility to oversee a strong transition to the new President-elect. And he and his staff have been doing everything they can to make sure that transition goes well. You know, he can be asked as many times as people are going to ask him if -- what he thinks of the President-elect, that is irrelevant at this point.  It's his responsibility to make sure the transition goes well. I think that is what he is doing, and I think he did a good job of pointing to try to ease some of Americans -- some of the concerns that Americans have by pointing out some of the strengths that Donald Trump may bring to the office.

KELLY: And also suggesting that the office can lift you up and can change you in a way that is beneficial for the country. But Carl, there were other comments too where it was leaked today that when Donald Trump walked through the White House and with his staff, that the staff was clueless about the fact that the existing west wing staff all have to leave there won't be any holdovers, they are going to have to fill all those post and it was sort of don't worry, Barack Obama's going helm him out. He is going to help. And political watchers said that is clearly a shot by the existing White House team.

HIGBIE: Yeah. Well, I think Barack Obama said it for two reasons, one he didn't think Donald Trump was going to win. Back then he was very confident that Hillary was going to be his successor, but two, also I think Barack Obama, like you said, is trying to help him out and he is effectively trying to keep Donald Trump from overturning most of his legislation, which, you know, quite frankly, you know, has been a disaster.  So Obama's going to try to do anything he can to salvage his legacy.

KELLY: What do you think, Mo? President Obama said look, Donald Trump is not ideological. He is pragmatic. Which is probably true, right? Doesn't seem ideological (inaudible).

ELLEITHEE: Yeah. That is right, yes.

KELLY: Then he went on to say, but he has to watch his temperament and be careful about messaging and pointed out how it's one thing to say something as a candidate, but when you are the president of the United States, you can change markets. You can change safety and world security.

HIGBIE: Gitmo -- oh wait, no.

KELLY: Do you think Donald Trump's going get that, Mo?

ELLEITHEE: I think every single person who has ever stepped into the oval office has found that that office has changed them. I think anyone who has walked into that office has realized that the office not only changes them, but changes some of the things they hope to accomplish. President Obama said very famously that when he was running for president he wanted to change the political culture of Washington. And he tells you now that that he wasn't able to do that, that there were too many realities here that stopped that from happening.

So, I think what he is saying is true. That President-elect Trump is not an ideologue. I think he scrambled a lot of the typical ideological divide in this country. And that he is pragmatic and I think the president is both predicting and maybe hoping a bit that wants he gets into office he'll realize that some of the things he talked about just can't happen.

KELLY: Carl, I'll give you the last word.

HIGBIE: Well, a lot of the things he talk about can happen. I think it takes somebody who's, you know annoyed at the system enough. I mean look at the fact of the matter is, Donald Trump has been so, you know, anxious and so happy to get in this office and try to crush the system that is been breaking America's back. I think he can do it and I think he is the right man for the job.

KELLY: All right guys, great to see you. And you are not alone in that belief. Well, we've seen anti-Trump protests breaking out in many cities and many American campuses. But wait until you hear what happened to this professor when he dared to share a dissenting view. Stay tuned.


KELLY: Developing tonight, a program director at the University of Rochester forced to step down after he dares to take on some anti-Trump protesters on his campus. Trace Gallagher has the story, Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, after the election University of Rochester President Joe Seligman sent an email ensuring students that, "We are a safe place." He also offered free counseling for anyone struggling with last night's election. Of course any student that was not emotionally broken was more than welcome to trash Trump during a campus protest on or the school's anti-America Facebook page. Ted Fauliki, who is the undergraduate program director of computer science decided to post a pro-Trump message on the school's not my America Facebook page writing quoting here, a bus ticket from Rochester to Canada is $16, if this is not your America, then I will pay for your ticket if you promise never to come back. Well it turns out some of the students were offended, so the Dean asked him to step down. He did. He remains a senior lecturer, but he says, he was just trying to be funny, listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The move to Canada when your candidate loses joke has been around as long as I can remember in politics. Many celebrities threaten to move to Canada if their candidate doesn't get elected. So it was in that sense that I posted it. I was trying to be funny.


GALLAGHER: Bottom line, supporting Trump ok, bashing Trump, fine, other the other way around.

KELLY: Thanks trace. We'll be right back.


KELLY: It's here! Tomorrow my book comes out. "Settle for More" finally hits stores. And it's already making big headlines. It's about my life, my values, really the values of middle class America. And how I went from a small town girl to a big city lawyer only to realize, man, was I unhappy.  One night watching Dr. Phil, it dawned on me that I did not have to settle.  For what had become a mediocre unhappy life. That I could settle for more.  And so can you. It's got stuff in there about the weirdest I had with Mr. Trump as well which I have to leave now over as I discussed on Dr. Phil's program tomorrow.


DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST: You now have a contentious relationship with a man that is now, arguably, the most powerful man on the planet, as the president of the United States.

KELLY: Well, I don't think I did have a contentious relationship with him.  I feel that Trump and I had moved past that after I met him at Trump Tower and did the long sit down with him. And I have a good relationship with his children, with his wife. And so, he and I think, you know, we're not tight, but I don't think we do have a problem with one another.


I'm also going on tour with “The Kelly File,” coming possibly to a city --

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