Esquire's 'American boy' cover story causes controversy

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," February 13, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Check all those books before you turn them in. Thank you, Bret. Good evening, everybody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: We will get the job done. The wall is very, very on its way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: President between a wall and a bit of a hard place tonight as he gets heat from the right. Ann Coulter's response to the wall is on its way. She writes, "So is the second coming." And the head of the conservative House Freedom Caucus is also been very supportive early on of the president, of course, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARK MEADOWS, R-N.C.: The amount of money that is here, it would take 20 years to complete the wall. So, are we going to wait for 20 years to stop drug traffickers? Are we going to wait for 20 years to stop human trafficking?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: But the president says he has options, and word is tonight at the White House that he's not decided anything yet. And that there's a lot of what is heard about this bill that he doesn't like, but he has to go through it because they were still waiting for the final version in all of this.

So, the jury is very much out tonight. And what about the voters? Overall, 46 percent support building the wall and 50 percent say that they are against. The favor number has moved slightly higher in recent months.

In moments, Victor Davis Hanson on the big picture of all of this here tonight. But first, where are we at 7:00 p.m. this evening with just two days to go? Chief White House correspondent John Roberts, live at the White House. Good evening, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We don't seem to be any further down the road, Martha, than we were at this time this morning. The White House says that the president still has not seen all of the details of the proposed legislation. And the White House is making it clear that the president is not going to sign anything until he knows all of the details.

Now, there are some things that the president has been told about that he likes, including $23 billion total for DHS for border security. What the president does not like though is the $1.375 billion for building a border wall. He wanted a lot more money than that. And there is some add-ons that the president has got a real problem with as well.

In the Oval Office earlier today with the president of Colombia, the president said, he is going to go over this thing with a fine toothcomb. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We will be getting it. We'll be looking for landmines because you could have that, you know. It's been known to happen before to people. But we have not gotten it yet. It will be sent to us at some point and we will take a very serious look at it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Now, the president insists that his administration is already building a new border wall. What they are doing though is they are replacing sections of outdated fencing with money that was already appropriated in earlier fiscal years. But the White House is already looking at ways to increase the amount of money for the wall in this upcoming bill by transferring funds from other departments.

Once they get an appropriation they were allowed to through transfer authority move some money around to add to that pot. Speaking to sheriffs and chiefs of police today, President pledged that he will make good on the central promise of his election campaign. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: As we review the new proposal from Congress, I can promise you this, I will never waiver from my sacred duty to defend this nation and its people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: One question tonight, is there time for the president to go through all of this, and for the Department of Homeland Security to know exactly what it's going to get before that deadline at midnight on Friday, after which the government shuts down.

Well, there are some people who believe that we need to take a pause here. Among those people, the House Freedom Caucus Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows who today introduced legislation for a continuing resolution. A temporary funding measure that would keep the government open for another week while the negotiations continue.

There is a chance that, that could scuttle the whole deal but there are certain things that the president is adamant that he doesn't want to sign including among them, a provision that would give back pay to federal contractors. Not federal employees but federal contractors who were out of work during the government shutdown. President just does not want to do that. Martha?

MACCALLUM: John, thank you very much. John Roberts at the White House tonight. Here now, Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and the author of the upcoming book, The Case for Trump. Good evening, Victor. Good to have you with us tonight. Welcome back to the show.

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Good evening.

MACCALLUM: So, the case for Trump is what, when you look at this situation that he's faced with right now on his big campaign promise to build the border wall?

HANSON: Yes, he's in a temporary rock and a hard place because he doesn't want to shut down the government, Martha, because he's on a roll. The State of the Union address was successful, he's been more sober and judicious. But most importantly, his opponents are giving him all sorts of gifts from the New Green Deal to radical abortion positions that are really scary to welfare. Expansions, wealth taxes, the whole Medicare for everybody. And it's not resonating well.

So, when your opponents are doing that, you don't want to take the attention away and by shutting down the government. On the other hand, he promised a wall at least, for 1,500 miles or somewhere in that vicinity, so he wants to build it. So, how does he square that circle? I think the answer is that he doesn't want to magnify the issue. In other words, he just slowly gratuitously, insidiously, incrementally, finds some money from DOD, EPA, Department of Interior, and just keeps out at 50 miles this next month, 100 miles.

As he's doing that, the optics are in his favor because his popularity is slowly going up. And there's going to be more caravan, there's going to be more melodramas, psychodramas at the border. And that popularity for building the wall will increase.

Though I think he's just got a downplay, it's not a make-or-break issue right now or shut the government to build the whole thing. That's what the Democrats want him to do. They're never going to agree to it, so he's got to do it in different ways in such a way that doesn't make it into the issue of his presidency when it's actually going pretty well.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean that, that sounds very logical. From what we know of the president, downplaying things is not typically part of his personality. We've even seen over the past couple of days him saying -- you know, they look think that I'm not going to get my wall, but I'm going to get my wall.

You know, how, how successful do you think that would be if he attempted to sort of build it over time the way that you suggest and not make it a huge political issue until he gets to the point where he can look at everyone and say, look we did it.

HANSON: Yes. Yes, I think there's two ingredients for that strategy. One is that it has to be continually. Even if it's only 10 miles a month or 10 miles every six months, it has to be steady and incremental.

And then, the second is the new cycle that you guys report on, I think is going to build public support. And remember, the wall is just a metaphor. It's really about two things. The Democrats do not want to give him a victory especially to his base. It was a promise they think they can stop it.

And two, the border security -- or I should say the lack of has been central to the progressive project. That's how they flipped California, Nevada, New Mexico. They want to do the same with Colorado and Arizona. It's the (INAUDIBLE), it's the core of the whole identity politics movement.

Without, without an open border Jorge Ramos in Univision would go the way of Italian-American T.V. or Polish-American T.V. So, they don't want the wall. If the wall facilitated illegal immigration, they would be for it. So, it's not whether -- you know, it works or doesn't work. They know it works. They do not want it because open borders and so many political ways have been to their benefit.

And to be frank, a lot of employers on the right and the conservative Main Street, Wall Street Journal position, they have been for open borders for the idea of access to inexpensive labor.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I want to go back to a point that you just made a moment ago which was that you know, the president should to a certain extent, in your opinion, if he wants to be successful, lay low and let the left as you put itself-destruct with the Green Dream, infanticide Medicare for all, the Virginia circus and the AOC foolery. What do you make of all that? And all the attention, all the support from these 2020 candidates that this Green Deal is getting right now.

HANSON: Well it's -- there's a lot of systematic explanations. One is that unlike the Republicans, with younger generation people, remember that the 2016 field was pretty young. They don't have a field team, so you have Joe Biden or Michael Bloomberg in their 70s. Or Bernie Sanders, but there's been a vacuum and these young radicals have come in and they haven't been tested their views, haven't been cross-examined.

They feel that they have these coastal loud constituencies, their importance have been magnified, exaggerated by social media. And they got caught up in sort of a French revolutionary spiral. Nobody ever stopped and said, we -- it's almost like the Covington thing or the Kavanaugh hearings. There was a whole hysteria electronically fueled. And nobody ever said, "Wait a minute, do we really want to ban air travel? Do we really want to almost condone abortion as it is it's almost -- as almost with the infanticide?"

So there were positions that people just jumped on because they thought that was the wave. And now they're going to be shocked if a Republican runs a commercial and says, Senator Harris said that she doesn't want you to fly to Hawaii. So, I think they're going to -- I think that movement is very dangerous and destructive. It's like the 1972 frenzy with McGovern that really destroyed the Democratic Party. And I think Trump should just let it play out.

MACCALLUM: Very, very interesting. We'll see where it goes, Victor Davis Hanson. Thank you, sir. Great to see you tonight.

HANSON: thank you.

MACCALLUM: So coming up next, Representative Ilhan Omar, not backing down after her big apology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ILHAN OMAR, D-MINN.: It wasn't a question.

ELLIOTT ABRAMS, UNITED STATES SPECIAL ENVOY TO VENEZUELA: I would --

(CROSSTALK)

OMAR: On -- that was not -- that was not a question. That was -- I reserve the right to my time.

(CROSSTALK)

ABRAMS: (INAUDIBLE). It is not -- it is not right.

OMAR: That was not a question.

ABRAMS: (INAUDIBLE) in this committee can attack a witness who is not permitted to reply.

OMAR: On February 8th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was something else today. We're going to show you the whole thing. In a moment, Senator Tim Scott joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: This just breaking moments ago. More trouble tonight for President Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort. Minutes ago, a judge voided his plea deal after ruling that he intentionally lied to the Mueller team about a range of communications including one with an individual allegedly linked to Russian intelligence.

In heavily redacted court documents, Manafort's lawyers insist that he did not lie during his cooperation sessions and to grand jury appearances so we'll see where this goes next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: I fail to understand why members of this committee or the American people should find any testimony that you give today to be truthful.

ELLIOT ABRAMS, SPECIAL ENVOY TO VENEZUELA: If I can respond to that.

OMAR: It wasn't a question.

ABRAMS: In fact, it is not right --

OMAR: That was not a question.

ABRAMS: -- that this committee can attack --

OMAR: On February 8th --

ABRAMS: -- a witness who is not permitted to reply.

OMAR: Do you think that massacre was a fabulous achievement that happened under our watch?

ABRAMS: That is a ridiculous question --

OMAR: Yes or no.

ABRAMS: No.

OMAR: I will take that as a yes.

ABRAMS: So but I am not going to respond to that kind of personal attack which is not a question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Very intense in there today. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar just a day after her apology for anti-Semitic remarks showing that she is not backing down. The President had called for her to be removed from the Foreign Affairs Committee today and she snapped back at the President with this. "Hi @RealDonaldTrump. You have traffic and hate your whole life against Jews, Muslims, indigenous, immigrants, black people, and more. I learned from people impacted by my words when will you?" she says.

Here now, Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina. Senator Scott, very good to have you with us tonight. Thank you for being here.

SEN. TIM SCOTT, R-S.C.: Thank you. Good to be with you.

MACCALLUM: First of all, what did you make of her exchange with Elliott Abrams, the envoy to Venezuela?

SCOTT: Unbelievable, aggressive, abrasive, and not based on any actual information. She did ask a question and didn't I give him an opportunity to answer. If that's the type of service that we can look forward to coming out of the House, things are in jeopardy. It's really challenging times.

And one of the big reasons why I support and have been the co-sponsor -- sponsor of an anti-Semitism legislation is because we're seeing these eruptions and what we saw today and what we heard yesterday are just more fact patterns that many times the left is heading in their very wrong direction. Remarkable.

MACCALLUM: You know, explain to me you know, when you look at her comments and you know, what is it that concerns you the most? You know, some people are making comparisons to some comments that Republicans have said that they also see veiled anti-Semitism in, how do you see it? Do you see it differently than that and why?

SCOTT: Well, very differently. Number one, I have had a number of conversations over the last six years with my colleagues in the Senate, when I was in the House as well. I am the lead sponsor with a lot of co- sponsors in the Senate on my anti-Semitism legislation awareness act. The fact is that on the right we see a lot of folks gaining momentum in support of and in defense of Israel. They are not only one of our best partners in the Middle East, actually, they're our best partners in the Middle East but they share our values.

And part of the challenge that we're going to have in this country, to be honest with you is this notion of pluralism. It creates a major issue when in fact there are two diametrically opposed value systems emerging on the scene. And I think that is more than troublesome that it's going to be a problem that we're going to have -- to have to face on directly from my perspective because we're seeing more and more of that in those comments especially yesterday's comments are consistent with that confrontation that we see coming in the public forum.

MACCALLUM: Your colleague Senator James Lankford said this about her comments and her apology. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD, R-OKLA.: I do accept Representative Omar's apology and I think it's entirely appropriate. She's brand-new freshman representative. Sometimes you get out there and you say things and then you try to correct it. For any of us that are on television like right now, you get questions, you make responses or you put out a tweet trying to be funny or to try to press a point and sometimes you go over the line on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Do you agree with him at all?

SCOTT: Absolutely. I think we should certainly accept apology. My concern is a deeper concern that there is a pattern that we're seeing manifesting in public forums from politics to campuses, college campuses, where this anti-Semitism seems to be moving very quickly throughout this country. We've seen an explosion of the number of incidents in this nation and frankly around the world.

So it's important for us to push back on hate and frankly, the party of identity politics seems to have this new sense of challenges and troubles on their own side of the aisle. So I would -- I would just suggest it that hate is a human problem and not a partisan problem. But what we're starting to see very clearly are patterns throughout this nation and frankly in the last several weeks focused on the left from the Democrats.

MACCALLUM: You know, it's interesting. We talk about hate speech and that is something that has become more clearly defined I guess in some ways it's always you know, a difficult question and I guess in many ways but you know, you have to decide whether that's what is happening here or what she says is happening here which is this new diversity creates some uncomfortableness.

She said this last week in remarks reclaiming religious freedom at the Liberal Center for American Progress. She said, oftentimes as a society when we are most uncomfortable is when the real shift happens.

SCOTT: Well, listen, we are uncomfortable because we're living in a time that there's a higher levels of toxicity, more corrosion, but it's not a fight over religious freedom. The one thing that we can thank the good Lord for is our First Amendment that guarantees our freedom of speech and freedom of a religion.

What we're having is a very different conversation. We are starting to hear hate-filled words that are being monetized to the benefit of folks who want to continue a narrative focused on folks like folks in our Jewish community that I think it's totally inappropriate and needs to be challenged and thankfully it is being challenged.

MACCALLUM: Well, based on that, before I let you go, do you think she should be removed from this committee?

SCOTT: I've said in a number of different opportunities I've had that -- let the House and the leadership deal with folks in the House and their leadership and frankly, I'll just let them make that decision. I'm not in a position to make that call?

MACCALLUM: Senator Tim Scott, always good to see you, sir. Thank you very much. Senator Mitch McConnell forcing his chamber to stand up and be counted with a vote on the new Green Deal put forth by Democratic Socialist Alexandria Ocacio-Cortez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y., SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The first question Republicans should answer is what is their answer on climate change?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Andy Puzder with his answer next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So tonight, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is expected to force a vote on Alexandria Ocacio-Cortez's Green New Deal, a resolution that entails massive government involvement in order to fix the climate crisis with a price tag that is estimated in the trillions.

And now some Republicans are criticizing the deal by comparing it to the emperor has no clothes Fyre Festival scam. That is one of the hottest documentaries on T.V. right now. Here's Republican Congressman Mark Walker's Green Deal version.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: And we'll just print more money. Joining me now is Andy Puzder, former CEO of CKE Restaurants and the author of the Capitalist Comeback: The Trump Boom and the Left's Plot to Stop It. Andy, good to have you back on the show. Thank you for being here. What do you --

ANDY PUZDER, AUTHOR, THE CAPITALIST COMEBACK: Good to be with you, Martha. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: -- what do you make of this -- thank you. What do you make of this New Green Deal?

PUZDER: Well, it's ridiculous. Look, I think in her enthusiasm to get these socialist policies that she's so supportive of out there, she's -- Olivia Ocasio-Cortez has actually made the mistake of telling the American people exactly what the progressive socialists want to do. They want to take over everything. They want the government to control virtually everything.

You know, they're always out there saying you know, we're not Venezuela, we're not North Korea, we're not Cuba, we're not the Soviet Union, where this gentler kind of socialism. Well, they're not. I mean, this shows number one, that they want to take over everything they can. They want to take our freedoms, our liberties, and our wallet.

The other thing it shows is that they are going to use climate change whether you -- whether you think it's important or you don't is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is they want to use climate change as a bludgeon to transform America from a free-market capitalist democracy into a socialist totalitarian state.

And I think people will see it. I think they are seeing it. It's a ridiculous plan but it really shows what they're trying to do.

MACCALLUM: You wrote a piece on Fox News on the Web site talking about growing up in America and a lesson that you learned about capitalism when your dad took you to drop off a new Ford at his customer's estate. And I want to put up the new polling that we have on capitalism versus socialism so people can take a look at that. But you know, what struck you when you took that ride up that very long driveway on a very big estate to drop off a Ford with your dad?

PUZDER: Well, you know, I was really stunned by the wealth. I grew up in a little ranch house. My dad was a Ford car salesman as you note. We didn't have much and I we were working-class but we never really thought about being working-class and I didn't anyway. It was a life I knew until we drove to this very rich individual's house.

And I asked my father as we were leaving, what this man did. His name was George Humphrey and I said what Mr. Humphrey do that he can live like this? And my dad said well, he's a lawyer and he runs a business. And I can remember as if -- as if it were yesterday thinking you know, I could be a lawyer. You know, there's -- I thought I could do it.

Now, it's important that I thought maybe I could do this.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

PUZDER: But I think it's more important what I didn't think. I didn't think that SOB is stealing from us. Or he is in 1 percent or we are some other percent. I thought maybe I could do this. Never been a country in the history of the world where a working-class kid like me could have aspired to that level of success with any chance of achieving it.

MACCALLUM: And you did. Became a lawyer and ran a very large company. And, you know, just getting back to this whole idea of the changes that some of the candidates for 2020 are pushing, one of them would have had a big impact on the food industry, on the business that you did so well in as a CEO of many fast food restaurants in this country.

Here's Cory Booker on the food industry. He said "The tragic reality is that this planet simply can't sustain billions of people consuming industrially produced animal agriculture because of environmental impact. To change something, you have got to build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." Your thoughts?

PUZDER: Well, number one, if the people of the United States want to eat food that doesn't involve cattle, which is really what he is talking about is cattle produce methane when they have gas. And they are trying to take an entire industry and have the government basically wipe it out. In addition to the airline industry, and whatever other industries they think the government can take over.

With respect to the food industry, if people want to eat food that doesn't have anything to do with cattle, that's what we will sell them. I mean, the restaurant industry isn't out there trying to tell people what to eat. We are not the food police. We eat, we feed people, we provide people with the food they want to eat.

So, what Mr. Cory Booker should be trying to do is going to American consumers and saying look, you should want other products. There is now actually a new product out there that is a meatless burger that I'm told is very good.

In fact, the company that I used to run is actually selling it in California. And I am told it's great. If that's what people want, we will be happy to sell it.

MACCALLUM: You want that to drive it what people want, what the customer wants will inevitably drive the market to provide what they can sell. Right?

PUZDER: Yes. We don't need the government telling people what to eat, telling people where to go. Telling people what they can do. You know, telling people who work that they have to support people who don't want to work.

I mean, this green deal is so absurd and the fact that Democratic presidential candidates have gotten behind it. I think Kimberley Strassel of the Wall Street Journal said this best. This green deal and Olivia (Ph) Ocasio-Cortez are like the Republican's secret weapon for 2020. We just have to sit back and watch it happen. It's interesting what they are trying to do.

MACCALLUM: Andy Puzder, thank you very much, sir. Good to see you tonight.

PUZDER: My pleasure. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next on “The Story,” this esquire cover what it's like to grow up white, middle class and male in America today. The men speak out coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: A provocative story here. Esquire magazine catching some heat tonight this piece profiling a 17-year-old white boy from Wisconsin. And the title is "What's is like to grow up white middle class and male in the era of social, school shootings, toxic masculinity, Me Too and a divided country."

Some critics were quick on Twitter and social media to label this disgusting and tone deaf inappropriate and irrelevant.

Joining me now Darrin Porcher, U.S. army veteran and former NYPD officer Rumando Kelley, actor, activist in the face of just for men. Brandon Straka, founder of the Walkaway Campaign which encourages liberals to walk away from the Democratic Party. Gentlemen, thank you. Let's dive right in. Darrin, let me start with you. What's wrong with this story.

DARRIN PORCHER, U.S. ARMY VETERAN: I think this is a very uniquely provocative story set forth by Esquire magazine. Their ratings are falling. And as a result of it they know the thing that everyone understands is race is the elephant in the room. It's necessary for us to have a discourse on race relations.

However, it needs to be calmly -- it needs to be done calmly and wisely. And that's what they have us doing. We are talking about it here now. They are getting free press as a result of this article.

MACCALLUM: Well, they always try to be provocative and they always try to write stories that kind of dig into, you know, something that's going on in America.

Rumando, I guess, you know, one of my questions is, you know, these are issues for young white men growing up to deal with the issue of toxic masculinity which we talked about in the era of Me Too. This is a boy who goes to work at a job before school at 6.30 in the morning. His parents are divorced. So, they don't live together. He's not a wealthy child. He is a white boy growing up in America. So why, you know, do you think that story is not a story that can be talked about?

RUMANDO KELLEY, ACTOR: Martha, after reading the story, I came away knowing nothing that I didn't already know, OK? All I kept thinking about is Esquire really dropped the ball on this one. They had an opportunity to let the world know that there is more important people in the world than white middle class. But they didn't.

MACCALLUM: But how are they saying that he is the most important person in the world? Or that people like him are.

KELLEY: Well, Wisconsin, speaking of Wisconsin where he is from. They really made a point by saying hey, this is a red state. But they could have did more. That's more of the same. That's speaking more to the same propaganda that the Trump administration continues to push.

MACCALLUM: But I don't see, Brandon, I didn't see them. They are not elevating this boy, in my mind, when I read it. They are talking about that, you know, what he is going through. He went in -- he had a really awful incident, you know, awful for everyone concerned where a girl hit him and he, his reflex was that he hit her back and he got in big trouble.

And as a 17-year-old high school kid that was one of the biggest, most horrible experiences that he was going through at that moment in his life. What do you think about all of this?

BRANDON STRAKA, FOUNDER, WALKAWAY CAMPAIGN: Well, I mean, young white men are a segment of society that exist and they have a unique experience just like we all have a unique experience it doesn't matter, you know, despite the color of your skin or your sexual orientation we all have a unique experience.

And so, I don't know why we have gotten to point now where we have decided that the experiences of heterosexual white men are unimportant and shouldn't be heard.

It's interesting, because the liberal left are the first to tell you black lives matter, something that I agree with. But when conservatives say in return well all lives matter, conservatives -- or liberals will tell you, no, no, no. But black lives matter. It's very important that we hear about the black experience. So why can't we occasionally talk about the white experience which is a unique experience just as well.

MACCALLUM: Darrin, what can you say to that.

PORCHER: Well, I can speak -- I can only speak from a position of conjecture in connection with what it's like being a white male. That's something I can't understand. You would have a better understanding of that than me. But the truth of the matter is, I understand that they do, we do need to lend some credence to what a Caucasian man deals with.

But it goes back to if we are going to have this discourse it needs to be calmly and effectively get the points across where we can both come -- both sides can come out with the understanding.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But there's nothing in “The Story” that says that he is more important than a young black man. It's a story about, you know, that they talk about the fact that the suicide rate has risen 44 percent among adolescents in America, you know.

So, they are talking about the reality of growing up as a teenage boy in a social media world. Now some of those things cross over all color barrier - - all colors in America. They just happen to be profiling this person and telling about his experience. So, I'm not sure -- I guess what I don't understand why that, telling this person's story is offensive to other races?

(CROSSTALK)

KELLEY: Well, Martha --

PORCHER: It goes back to --

KELLEY: You have to understand, there are so many other topics that could be discussed. I think it really caught a lot of Americans off guard like why is this so important?

MACCALLUM: So, he is not important? His story.

KELLEY: There are other stories that are more important.

(CROSSTALK)

STRAKA: I don't really --

KELLEY: It's necessary to have the conversation.

STRAKA: The suicide rate is highest among white men. It's at 78 percent. Some of the --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Which is his story. Don't you agree -- do you, gentlemen agree that that's a story.

STRAKA: There is a crisis happening in America.

PORCHER: I agree but you have to take into consideration.

MACCALLUM: That's a story.

KELLEY: That's a crisis.

PORCHER: You have more Caucasian men in this country that you have --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: No, but they're talking about the percentage.

PORCHER: Right, right. But when you look at -- when you look at the number of Caucasians that do commit suicide absolutely it is an issue. But it goes back to what we are addressing here with this article. I think that he has a right to his day and his parents have a right to their day to discuss this because this is a young man that's in crisis.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: It's a story. He's a white western kid and they wrote a story about him, you know, and there is going to be lots of stories that are written about other young people and their experiences as they grow up in America.

I want to play this sound bite from Howard Schultz because this also got a lot of backlash and I want to get your thoughts on this. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD SCHULTZ, FORMER CEO, STARBUCKS: As somebody who grew up in a very diverse background as a young boy in the projects, I didn't see color as a young boy. And I honestly don't see color now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Rumando, you are shaking your head why?

KELLEY: Because it's so dismissive. It's more of the same. It's a plain out copout. Why -- that's the last thing we need in America right now is someone to say I don't see color.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Don't we all want to be equal?

KELLEY: But we need to see color. We need to see color. We need to understand that color --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But Martin Luther King said he didn't want to judge people by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. He also said that he wanted to see a future where there weren't discussions about white power and black power but about human power. So, isn't the goal that we want to get to a place where we all see each other as humans?

PORCHER: Well, it makes a lot of sense --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Go ahead, yes.

PORCHER: -- what you are saying but the truth of the matter is he put his foot in his mouth. He is running for office and we all have an implicit bias.

MACCALLUM: He is saying when I was growing up, I had friends who are black and friends who are white and I didn't see people as --

(CROSSTALK)

PORCHER: And what he's trying to do is white wash what happened in Starbucks when two African-American men were arrested. He's trying to get past it for the presidential campaign. The truth of the matter is as I mentioned earlier, we all have an implicit bias. It's necessary for you to see color.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But we have to work to get away from that. Correct?

PORCHER: -- when you deal with people. But when do you see color?

MACCALLUM: Let me hear from this guy before we have to --

(CROSSTALK)

STRAKA: The double standard I think is astounding. I mean, aren't we sitting here tonight having this discussion because people saw a white boy on a cover of a magazine, they saw color and they freaked out. They said why do we need to have a story about a white boy?

They saw this story, this white person on the cover of a magazine and they lost their minds, people on the left.

So, it's absolutely true. I mean, I happen to agree with the notions that I think it's ridiculous for people to say they don't see color. Of course, we all see color. I see what color you are, I see what color you are, I see what color you are. But that doesn't mean that we have to, you know, that that is instrumental in judging what the experience is of somebody else.

MACCALLUM: Rumando.

KELLEY: Brandon, but, and to have an opportunity to not only say hey, I do see color. And to acknowledge that racism -- racism exists, racism is here. But, for whatever reason, you have that opportunity and, again, you are trying to run for president and that's not --

(CROSSTALK)

STRAKA: But why we -- why can we only discuss one side of racism. I think that's what bothers so many people. This white boy was on the cover of a magazine and people on the left are losing their minds and that's because of racism on the left.

(CROSSTALK)

PORCHER: Because there's so many other topics to discuss.

MACCALLUM: Last thought, guys, I got to leave it there. All right. Thank you very much. Very good conversation. I thank all of you for being here tonight.

PORCHER: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Good to have you. So, Wednesdays with Watters is coming up next. First time a prime time exclusive the father of a Kentucky mother who has been missing for more than a month breaks his silence in an exclusive interview here on THE STORY next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CECIL SPURLOCK, SAVANNAH SPURLOCK'S FATHER: Man. Whew. Somebody knows something. I know that, I know somebody knows something. I just beg them to please come forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Tonight, an urgent search is underway for a Kentucky mother of four who vanished more than a month ago. Savannah Spurlock last seen on January 4th after leaving a bar in Lexington with a group of men. And now her family is pleading for answers in a story exclusive.

Matt Finn live from Lexington tonight. Good evening, Matt.

MATT FINN, CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. Savannah Spurlock's father is breaking his silence in an exclusive interview with “The Story” telling us that he has been taking care of Savannah's 4-year-old son Noah who does not know his mother is missing.

And tomorrow Noah is scheduled to meet with counselors who will begin to reveal to the toddler more details about his missing mom. Cecil Spurlock tells Fox News that one of the proudest moments of Savannah was when she excelled in her classes and lifeguarding during her first year at Eastern Kentucky University.

Their favorite thing to do together was snorkeling on vacation. But Cecil Spurlock says his daughter was going through a bad phase around the time that she disappeared on January 4th. He admits he was giving her tough love as she was making poor choices. Savannah's dad says she was going to snap back to the responsible mother that so many people here on the ground tell us she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPURLOCK: She was kind, loving, and awesome person. I know she made some bad decisions. I know that. She doesn't deserve what happened to her. I'm going to say it again, three men take a girl out in the middle of nowhere, somebody knows something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FINN: Cecil Spurlock thoroughly thanks all the volunteers who have been here searching for Savannah on foot and on waterways. Fox News has been shadowing those teams throughout their extensive searches with canine units.

The Cajun coast search and rescue volunteers drove 900 miles from Louisiana searching for nearly two weeks here on the ground. Cecil Spurlock says he can't thank these teams and police enough. He says his faith in taking care of Savannah's son is what's giving him strength.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPURLOCK: The good lord, good lord God loves me a lot. He keeps me going. My little boy, Noah, since he doesn't know about his mom. I can't ever be sad. I have got to keep it together, I got to be squared away around him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FINN: And the largest search for Savannah today is scheduled for Saturday. And for the first-time search teams will be accepting the help of volunteers from the public. Martha?

MACCALLUM: As he said, somebody knows something and they need to find out. Thank you very much. Matt Finn in Lexington.

Coming up next here tonight on “The Story” is Elizabeth Warren trying to flip the script on the whole Native American controversy and can it work for her? Wednesdays with Watters next. Hi, Jesse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASS.: I am not a tribal citizen. I am sorry that I extended confusion about tribal citizenship and tribal sovereignty and for harm caused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Just so we are clear not a tribal citizen. However, there is the Texas Bar registration card that surfaced where she clearly identified as an American Indian. But the Massachusetts senator seems to be fueling the controversy. She made a surprise appearance yesterday at a luncheon honoring Native American women leaders.

And with that, Wednesdays with Watters. Seeing you write up there. What do you think about that?

JESSE WATTERS, HOST: I mean, this is longer than the Obama apology tour. I mean, she needs to stop apologizing. I have learned in my personal life never apologize, Martha. It invites weakness and people keep making you apologize more and more after that.

So, I say no apology. If you have to make an apology, apologize once and move on. She has to stop associating herself so much with Native Americans.

MACCALLUM: Yes, but --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Every time you see her name in the headline Native American is next to it. Do something with soccer moms instead.

MACCALLUM: I think she is trying to, you know, deemphasize the negative and accentuate the positive. She is now --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: What is the positive?

MACCALLUM: She is saying -- because I looked, I watched the pictures and all -- many of the leaders at this Native American luncheon all wanted to have their picture taken with her. She is saying to them I am your champion.

WATTERS: OK.

MACCALLUM: I feel for --

WATTERS: Having pictures of you standing next to a Native American is not helping your cause. The more and more these pictures get out there. No one knows anything about Elizabeth Warren except that she is not Native American.

MACCALLUM: All right. Let's talk about President Trump and dogs whether or not he should have one. Here he is on the subject.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: How would I look walking a dog on the White House lawn. Would that be -- feels a little phony to me. A lot of the people say you should get a dog. Why? It's good politically. I said, that's not the relationship I have with white people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I am what I am and he doesn't like dogs.

WATTERS: It's a great line. Not a dog guy and I think know why. He doesn't want to compete for attention with anybody. He has to be the cutest person in the room. No one can compete with President Trump. Any little poodle? No. The attention is going to go to the poodle and not the president.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I think you might be onto something. Also, they say people look like their dogs. So, I can just imagine.

WATTERS: Could you imagine?

MACCALLUM: What a dog's hair would look like.

WATTERS: Could you imagine a big blonde thing here.

MACCALLUM: Exactly. So, here's -- well, Jesse, we have your dog.

WATTERS: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Let's see if Jesse's dog looks like him.

WATTERS: Do we have Rookie? That does look like me.

MACCALLUM: He's pretty cute. You know what, my dog looks more like you and your dog looks more like me.

WATTERS: Let's me see. Let's see your dog.

MACCALLUM: See?

WATTERS: Wait, what is that?

MACCALLUM: It's -- wheaten terrier and a poodle.

WATTERS: A whoodle.

MACCALLUM: But he has black hair like you do. He's almost hard to see because he is so dark.

WATTERS: Yes, how did you see when you walk in the night, can --

MACCALLUM: No, I don't like to take him out in the dark.

WATTERS: A whoole.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

WATTERS: You have a whoodle.

MACCALLUM: I have a whoodle. What's the big deal? You have a poodle. It's like something better or worse?

WATTERS: A mini poodle. A mini poodle.

MACCALLUM: Well he's miniature poodle and Wheaton terrier.

WATTERS: A Wheaton terrier. And what about -- here is some really cute dogs. Speaking of dogs.

WATTERS: Let me see.

MACCALLUM: Well, first of all, the Westminster winner was king.

WATTERS: King.

MACCALLUM: Fox terrier. Because my dog is not allowed because the category doesn't exist. But these are the -- OK, there is king.

WATTERS: Wow.

MACCALLUM: Winner, winner, winner, big deal.

WATTERS: We don't care about the winner.

MACCALLUM: No, because my dog is not allowed in. This is --

WATTERS: Your dog doesn't have a category.

MACCALLUM: No.

WATTERS: Because there is no whoodle category.

MACCALLUM: The whoodles, exactly but there will be in the future. Pug Dachshund.

WATTERS: Pug Dachshund. You know, I made a joke during the commercial break about this that I was told not to make the joke.

MACCALLUM: Why?

WATTERS: So, I'm not going to make the joke, Martha --

MACCALLUM: OK.

WATTERS: -- about the Kardashians and the dog. I'm not going to say it. And I'm just going to say it's a beautiful --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Let everyone's imagination but then you would have to apologize and then apologize again.

WATTERS: We don't apologize.

MACCALLUM: And again.

WATTERS: That's right.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, Jesse.

WATTERS: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you. That is “The Story” on this Wednesday night. We will see right you back here tomorrow night at 7:00. Good night, everybody. "Tucker" is up next.

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