Editorial: Trump's extreme vetting undermines 'American values'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 16, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi. I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle.


GUTFELD: I'm sorry. Juan Williams, Jesse Watters using jet ski on a tadpole, Dana Perino, "The Five."

Take it from me, when the left deems McCathy-esque, it's probably a good thing. Like Donald Trump's proposal on extreme vetting, which sounds like something Tom Cruise did to potential wives. But Trump's plan is for questioning potential immigrants is for The New York Times, quote, "an uncomfortable echo of McCarthyism" -- meaning it's mean and intolerant.

McCarthyism is the default button that liberals push whenever we demand fighting external threats -- be it yesterday's communism or today's ISIS. It is this cliched smear that leaves us vulnerable. Fact is, you wouldn't need a new anti-terror campaign if previous attempts weren't handcuffed by PC screams of intolerance. Express concerns about attacks or terrorists sneaking in as migrants or link mass violence to those who actually promise mass violence and somehow that makes you Islamophobic. But how is wishing to halt mass murder bigoted? It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with deadly ideas.

Now I get it, Trump often tarnishes legitimate concerns with impulsive, crass rhetoric. But that's not McCarthyism. It's carelessness. However, it is the media that is guilty of a different kind of McCarthyism -- Charlie, not Joe -- parroting mindless claims one expects from a dummy on a string. As they focus on Trump, they ignore Hillary Clinton saying she won't send troops to ISIS, a pre-surrendering to evil. How bizarre. But The Times are OK with that.

Always on the wrong side of history, the media cannot read the handwriting on the wall, even when it's written in blood.

You know the thing is, Jesse, there was a lot -- we talked about his speech yesterday. There were some legitimate problems here and there. But his plan is actually a legitimate response to what's happening in Germany and France. It's not bigoted to think that if terrorists are streaming through, we should try to stop that.

JESSE WATTERS, GUEST CO-HOST: Right. I think the New York Times would rather be offended than dead.



WATTERS: The New York Times doesn't like extreme vetting. The New York Times undertakes extreme vetting against Republicans every single day.

GUTFELD: Good point.

WATTERS: If America vetted Muslim immigrants as toughly as the New York Times vets Donald Trump, this would be a safe country. If you look at the two latest major terror attacks under the president, you've had the Boston bombing and San Bernardino, both were the result of failed vetting. So, the New York Times' logic seems to be, to me, it is intolerant to ask someone if they're tolerant.


WATTERS: Trump has them so tied up in pretzels. And the New York Times is so tolerant, they don't have one conservative on their editorial page. Don't lecture us about being tolerant.

GUTFELD: They have one, right?

WATTERS: Not a real one.




WATTERS: Who is it?


WATTERS: Oh, yeah, yeah, a household name.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: If you read.


WATTERS: Oh yeah.



WATTERS: Are there pictures in the New York Times? I look at the cartoons.


DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I like the cartoon.

GUTFELD: You mean Frank Rich.


GUTFELD: And that economist, what's his name? Let's talk about this. What do you make of the New York Times? They went after the speech, but some ignored the fact that Hillary says no boots on the ground with ISIS, basically telling ISIS what we're going to do.

PERINO: Right. And again, neither candidate, if they become president is actually probably going to do the exact things as president as they are saying when they're candidates. And I think it's tomorrow that they both start getting their intelligence briefings. So you might even see either a softening of the rhetoric or some other sort of pivots. The thing about McCarthyism is that it is one thing to prevent someone from coming into the country if they want to overthrow your government.


PERINO: OK. But what Donald Trump was talking about yesterday when he was talking about in his speech -- maybe inartfully, was about a religious test, right?

GUTFELD: Uh-huh.

PERINO: That is what I think, if the New York Times wanted to be more successful in arguing against his speech, that if you're talking about being a pure constitutionalist, then you could not be for what he's talking about. The other thing is, it's not just the New York Times doesn't want to be offended. They are looking at the youth. Last week, USA Today and Rock The Vote do a joint poll together. The youth of this country are fleeing from Donald Trump because they don't want to be -- ever be tagged with being bigoted, or racist or even a semblance of being mean.

GUTFELD: Uh-huh.

PERINO: That's what is hurting him with those folks. So I think there are some things that he could have done that were different. The other thing I would point out is last night, a special report has Evan McMullin on.


PERINO: The gentleman from Utah who has sort of thrown his hat in the ring to run as an independent.

GUTFELD: And hair.

PERINO: And he has thrown his hair in the ring. It's really interesting, right? I mean, you really often don't see somebody.



PERINO: . running for president. But he was on special report in the center seat and one of the things he was asked about by Mercedes Schlapp, was about refugee programs and like would you allow Syrian refugees in? And his point was that if you are a terrorist, the worst thing you could do is come through the refugee program, because that is actually pretty seriously vetted. But Donald Trump, I think, should also you know expand upon is how do you deal with it at the border when they're coming over, or when you have student visas, et cetera? He is talking about a massive overhaul of the program. It would be extremely expensive. That may be worth the money. But that's a conversation that the Congress will have to have with him or her come January.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, to spend the money.

PERINO: Somebody has to pay for it.

GUTFELD: But it always seems to me that the media is always on the wrong side of existential battles. With communism, you were McCarthy-esque -- if you were anti-communist, the New York Times was anti-communist, if you're anti-terror or anti-radical Islam, they are anti-anti-Islamism. You were always the bad guy.


GUILFOYLE: That is the portrayal. If you have heightened concerned about national security, about foreign policy, about borders, about immigration system that is broken or actually trying to make sure that, yes, people are properly vetted. What do we do about the people that we're not able to vet that are coming over through a porous border? You see now in fact in Europe is a backlash and you're seeing Angela Merkel have a hard time, too, because they're saying wait a second, when we have people who are coming over here, breaking our laws, committing heinous acts of violence, many of which we do not hear about, because no country likes the bad pr, press for trying to do humanitarian good, the citizens are saying we want to expedite a process through which these individuals are identified, and then removed or deported if they're going to commit crimes, and be a public safety or a criminal nuisance. That's the next wave that has to be handled.

GUTFELD: All right. Juan, what do you make of the constant refrain of McCarthyism? Don't you feel that the left relies on that too much rather than actually face the criticism and try to argue persuasively? They call you an intolerant jerk.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I think that goes on, on both sides. But you're right. I think the left should plead guilty to that charge. I think the right also has some guilt there. But let's just focus on the left for a moment.

WATTERS: Yeah, let's do that.


WILLIAMS: And I think the conclusion would be you're right. But I will say this. In the Times' editorial, they talked about Trump saying that we should create a commission to find networks of support for people who would support any kind of radical Jihadist or Islamist agenda.


WILLIAMS: Well, that does strike -- oh, so now we're going to start to say what about Greg? And thinking Dana say, oh, wait a second, who opposes my love of Vladimir Putin?

GUTFELD: Uh-huh.

WILLIAMS: So if you don't like Putin, oh, wait, gee, I don't know about you, Greg, maybe it's time for you to take a hike.


WATTERS: We talk about half a million dollars from Putin's government.


WILLIAMS: There are a lot of them. I'm going to tell you, a lot of them in that Trump campaign that took dollars from the Putin.

WATTERS: Never proven.


WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. Let me just say, this to me is about furthering Trump saying we should just ban Muslims. It is like he has never taken it back. In fact, he says, you know what, I think this is a better way to do it and use this sort of, you know, a morph's language, and says, oh yeah, I'm not talking about it because so many of my fellow Republicans said that's not in keeping with the American values and the Constitution.


WILLIAMS: So I'm going to put a different dress on it. I'm going to make her look a little different, but it is still the same problem.



GUTFELD: Juan is making a good point that.


WATTERS: I missed that.

GUTFELD: When you share opinions -- when you share the same big vision with somebody who often simplifies it to a point where it means something else. So it is like, if you want to bet and if you're worried about the -- what's happening in Europe, suddenly you hate Muslims.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: And that's what is happening. I think Juan is saying that Donald has taken a message and turned it into something else.

WATTERS: I think that you have two sides. You have one side where Hillary wants to import 100,000 risky Muslim refugees willy-nilly. We can't trust her to begin with. She and Obama have no track record keeping us safe to begin with.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no. Excuse me.


WATTERS: Me, because, you know, I have a lot of haters.


WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh, someone closed down JFK.

WATTERS: No, it's polar opposite. Let them in willy-nilly and then Trump saying please, let's have a pause.


WATTERS: And I think the voters are going to decide which is a more rational view.

WILLIAMS: How about two years to let in anybody who claims to be a Syrian refugee. I don't think that's willy-nilly.


GUTFELD: How about Milli Vanilli?



GUILFOYLE: I think one of them passed away.

GUTFELD: That's true.


PERINO: The problem with that argument though is that it doesn't get to be part of the problem, which is that the Orlando shooter, for example, was born in America.



PERINO: We're chasing after things that need chased.

GUTFELD: Should be one of three things.


GUTFELD: Those that are trying to get here, those that are born here, and those that have overstayed visas.


GUTFELD: Will that make sense?

PERINO: I'll take that.

GUTFELD: That's the three-pronged stool.

WATTERS: I think you're on to something.

GUTFELD: I'm on something.


GUTFELD: We're on something.


WILLIAMS: What if I say to Dana or you, hey, you're coming in the country. Hey, what about this? What do you think about gays?

WATTERS: That's fine with me.

WILLIAMS: And I went Greg lied to me. How would Greg Gutfeld lie to me?

GUTFELD: It's a fair point. People can lie to get in.


WILLIAMS: Terrorist, would a terrorist lie?

PERINO: Here is the thing, remember the NSA program and the outrage over that?


PERINO: So if you are going to ask people coming into the country are you against gay marriage, are you going to start walking around every community in America and asking the same thing?


WATTERS: Honestly, if they were Christian refugees coming in, I think the Obama administration would vet them a little more toughly.

WILLIAMS: Oh, get out of here.

WATTERS: Oh, no.


WATTERS: I have another 50 minutes, Juan.



WILLIAMS: Dana is trying to have a reasonable conversation about gee, could this possibly work? The answer, of course, is no, but you won't even let her finish.

PERINO: But he's funny and cute. We'll keep him for 49 more minutes.


WATTERS: You're counting.

GUTFELD: Kimberly, last word to you. You can address anything here.

GUILFOYLE: I think -- exactly. What I think though is the problem is that what Dana is saying. You run the risk of alienating the young people, the up and coming voters, which I think is a larger, more global problem say for the Republican Party or conservatives because you don't want them to feel like they have got nowhere to go. And they have sort of imprints and identified somewhere else, it can be much more difficult to get them back. So you want to be sure that you're including those that perhaps don't have a different life experience than we do, you know, owning homes and mortgages and all these things. Think about things a little bit differently.

WATTERS: And if there is one more terror attack maybe in October, this is going to make Trump's plan look a lot more appealing.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my God, what wishful thinking.


WILLIAMS: Anti-American. It's unbelievable.

WATTERS: That's what I'm thinking, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, what did you say?

WATTERS: How dare you.



WATTERS: Political analysis, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's what it was.


WILLIAMS: I see. I thought it was desperation.

WATTERS: No. I know about an October surprise.


GUILFOYLE: OK, 47 minutes. Go.

GUTFELD: All right. One quick programming note tonight at 9:00 pm Eastern, somebody by the name of Donald Trump will be laying out his law and order vision during a speech in Milwaukee of all places. Make sure you tune in to Fox News for that. It will be a hum dinger, as they call it.

Coming up, more email headed for Hillary. House Republicans accusing Clinton of lying under oath. Could perjury allegations derail her campaign? Details when we return.


GUILFOYLE: Troubling new questions in Hillary's email scandal. House Republicans claim Clinton perjured herself when she testified about her handling of classified emails on her personal server. In a letter to a federal prosecutor, the allegations point out discrepancies between Clinton's testimony before the House Benghazi Committee and the conclusions announced last month by FBI director James Comey. The House Oversight Committee lays out the inaccuracies in this web video. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were two servers?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one? So there's only one server, is that what you're telling me? And this is the one server that the FBI has?

CLINTON: The FBI has the server that was used during the tenure of my State Department service.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary Clinton used several different servers and administrated those servers during her four years at the State Department.


GUILFOYLE: OK. Dana, is this problematic? Is it more email trouble for the Hillary Clinton and this time, will it stick?

PERINO: Well, yes and yes, and maybe no.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Take us through it.

PERINO: This never would have been a problem for her, if she followed the law in the first place. I mean, she is her own worst enemy on this. It's not hard to use a government server and to comply with the law. It's just not hard. I don't even care if it's for convenience. I mean, you could actually do all your yoga planning and wedding planning on a government server, if you chose, if you were so worried about having two different devices to manage, which we also know is not true. It is a problem for her that her numbers on trustworthiness are around negative 60 percent or something. She doesn't have trust with the majority of Americans and so the drip, drip, drip of this again is her own fault. These are being done by FOIA requests or congressional requests, and they're coming out little by little. Ultimately, does it harm her? When she's up in the polls in every battleground state and that's already factored in.

GUILFOYLE: Look at Virginia.

PERINO: I just don't know if it actually matters.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Jesse.

WATTERS: The Republicans here kind of remind me of the guy who goes in for the kiss with the girl, gets slapped, and then goes in for a second kiss. It's not going to happen. The Obama Department of Justice is way too corrupt. They're not going to do anything. We know that. They already killed the FBI investigation into the foundation. We know that. But two things. It keeps the story of Hillary as a liar in the headlines.


WATTERS: And it also shames the Obama Justice Department as totally corrupt. And I don't even -- they're probably beyond shame so it doesn't matter. But Hillary, as a liar, and the system being corrupt, if Trump can really hone in on those two elements -- remember, his biggest poll numbers were right after the convention bounce and right after the Hillary lying, FBI announcement.

PERINO: Right.

WATTERS: If he can hone in on those two things, he will do great, if he can get out of his own way.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting. What do you think, Greg?

GUTFELD: I don't know if calling her a liar over and over again matters at this point. It's like accusing a frog of catching flies. It's not the bug in the system. It's the actual system. So I think the interesting thing about it is what she is doing is really, really bad. It's important. But it's also not as interesting as when Donald Trump opens his mouth. So when you have all this information about Hillary coming out, let's face it, it's just more interesting to hear Donald say something funny. But the things that are boring in life generally are the things that kill you.


GUTFELD: That cause you to go broke, that cause, you know, long-term destructive behavior is actually boring, but it kills you.

GUILFOYLE: Any personal examples?

GUTFELD: Yeah. I have a list of them here.


GUTFELD: And also, it's like the fact that she can't be held accountable sets a precedent for so many other people. Now, we can distribute classified info whenever we want and just say, look, she set a precedent, you know, an intent no longer -- you could say like I didn't mean to do it. Why should that matter? Everybody can say that.



GUILFOYLE: Little bird talking in my ear. Juan, do you think this is going to matter to the voters at this point or is it so much like a drip, drip, like Dana says, that it dilutes the overall impact and lasting power of the taint?

WILLIAMS: It's warmed over Benghazi, Republicans beating you know a dead horse. That's what this is. This is stale.

PERINO: How they always get away with it.

WILLIAMS: And let me just say, you know, I just want to double down on something everybody has said, but I thought it was so right. This is the fact that Hillary Clinton is up so much in the polls that now you have some Republicans in Congress desperate to do anything to damage it.



WILLIAMS: Up by 8 in Virginia, by 9 Florida, up 7 nationally. Here is the key point on the justice issue about the e-mails. When it comes to foreign policy, she's ahead of Trump by 16 points. When it comes to immigration, 22. Use of nuclear weapons, my God, 22 points. Is that possible? That's what the American people think of Donald Trump right now.

PERINO: I would just say that the one thing that this might help with the Congressional Republicans doing this, it could help Republicans that are in tough districts or tough races. If her numbers can be held down and they can keep themselves in contention, you might be able to keep an Ayotte, Toomey and a Portman, and the other Senate candidates in play for Republicans to win those seats, if her numbers continue to be as bad as they are.

GUILFOYLE: That's an important point because those races are very pivotal to maintaining control in Congress. Every time I think about the Hillary stuff, I feel like I'm reliving the O.J. Simpson case again, that no matter what, the bloody trail, the glove, the this, the that, this jury is not going to convict her.

PERINO: The Clintons, what they really want is for everybody to move on. Remember Moveon.org was started after the impeachment trial of Bill Clinton. They just wear you down until you all decided, OK, fine, we're going to move on.

WATTERS: Did you say Hillary was the O.J. of politics?


GUTFELD: That's going to show up somewhere.


GUILFOYLE: You must acquit.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Directly ahead, in the wake of the violent rise to Milwaukee, who is to blame? The spotlight turns to the mainstream media for playing a role in the unrest. Details when The Five returns.


WILLIAMS: Milwaukee still on edge in the wake of a fatal police shooting. Police confirmed 10 arrests last night, but no destruction of property. So who is to blame for the unrest? Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke blasts the mainstream media.


DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF: It's a culturally dysfunctional under class and the uncomforting behaviors that are on display. But I tell you what's going on as well beneath the surface, the accomplice liberal mainstream media here in Milwaukee, but this is also happening nationwide, that's afraid to ask this dysfunctional under class for self-evaluation and to encourage them to self-criticize about some of the behaviors that they engage in.


WILLIAMS: Donald Trump will be delivering remarks in Milwaukee tonight and is expected to address the unrest there. That will include his law and order vision. Make sure you tune in to Fox for that live at 9:00 pm Eastern. Let me ask you, Jesse, what --- will you be watching?

WATTERS: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?


WILLIAMS: No Olympics for you?

WATTERS: Well, they have the Bachelor in Paradise. So I'm going to have to flip channels.

GUILFOYLE: You and Greg.


GUTFELD: We watch it together.


WILLIAMS: Excuse me, excuse me. I hate to interrupt, but what do you think of this argument about the mainstream media and how they now treat interactions between the police and poor black folks?

WATTERS: I think what the sheriff was saying was that the liberal media protects their own. They're quick to cast judgment against Christians, for pro-Second Amendment people who are conservatives. But whenever there are black rioters causing mayhem for no apparent reason, they almost ignore it. And we see that. They protect Planned Parenthood when the horrific videos came out, they protect illegal alien criminals even when they kill people like Kate Steinle, whenever Muslims do something dangerous, oh, you know, he was such a good guy. You know, I didn't see any trouble, no association with radical Islam.


WATTERS: And I think -- right. What I think is happening is that they kind of like the fact that the black underclass in these urban areas are angry, and divided, and upset, because the Democratic Party can then sweep in and exploit this anger and dysfunction to win elections.

WILLIAMS: I see. This man is so absurd. I don't even know where to begin.


WATTERS: Start with point one, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Have you thought -- normally conservatives would say, "Hey, Democrats have been running these cities."

WATTERS: I said that last night. I don't repeat myself.

GUILFOYLE: Fresh material.

WILLIAMS: I see. OK. And normally conservatives would be the ones to say, "Well, gee, you know what? We don't like the idea, when you have individuals not treated as individuals and you have here a black policeman who's obviously not being respected." The mainstream media in Milwaukee is talking about, imagine if that black cop had been shot. Would Black Lives Matter be standing up for that black life?

WATTERS: That's a great point. I think you might be a conservative, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no, I'm just saying, as opposed to those things that you were flossing around, there are real points here, Jesse.

WATTERS: I don't know if that would...

WILLIAMS: We need you to get more conservative, Jesse.

WATTERS: ... what I would call flossing. But...

WILLIAMS: Flossing. OK.

WATTERS: You seem to have not responded to one actual thing I said, but that's all right.

WILLIAMS: Let me ask Dana to respond to Rush Limbaugh. Here's Rush Limbaugh.



RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Black Lives Matter plans to shut down Graceland this week, Elvis Presley's home. This is Graceland week, apparently, Memphis. People show up. And the coalition from -- of concerned citizens -- I think Black Lives Matter is almost approaching unionized gang status now. They're rabble-rousers, and they're going to go into an event that's always peaceful and try to cause trouble.


WILLIAMS: Well, Dana, Black Lives Matter is not in Milwaukee, but Rush seems to think this is like a contagion.

PERINO: Right. And I -- I don't think that that's unreasonable necessarily, especially because of social media.

And I dug a little deeper today, because I get frustrated thinking about, well, how do we -- like we talked yesterday, like how do we talk about this? And problems.

So I connected with Opportunity Lives, and there's a couple of things that I found that were really interesting. Omar Jahwar -- I hope I got that name right -- he's a guy that started a thing called Urban Specialist. And he did a bunch of interviews after the Dallas shootings, the police shootings that happened, I guess, last month.

And one of the things they were talking about is just local solutions and that this problem is not going to be solved on talk radio or on cable news, but that really diving deep into these communities is what could solve it.

And one of the things they also said is that no value system can be in place if the focus is always on survival. So that's, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I think it actually gets down to that basic level. Because we can talk about it on cable news, but we're actually not doing anything to help solve it.

WILLIAMS: Well, so Greg, you know what strikes me about this conversation is that you have, really, a desperate situation for people who have been highly segregated almost to the point of isolation. And not just in terms of residential circumstance, but even in terms of poor quality schools. I think the schools are what I would call hyper-segregated, more than 90 percent black and Hispanic. And very low employment opportunities, high incarceration rates. And then you have the spark and people can talk about -- as Jesse said, "Well, but there was no 'Hands up'." And are we not focusing instead on the larger picture? Is this a fair argument in your mind?

GUTFELD: Well, I think there -- there are definite challenges and problems in a community. What we're talking about now is what makes it worse, and the initial -- the initial point was about, is the media complicit?

I think that doing hours and hours of specials on race, in which you aggregate disparate, different cases of perceived brutality -- brutality and not brutality -- and putting it under one umbrella and creating a phenomenon actually creates the spark and the platform, the justification for rioting. So that some -- a group of people can go out. Even though a black police officer shot an armed man, he becomes the villain...


GUTFELD: ... and they -- and looters can go out and do what they want.

The idea of this Balkanization and how we can't comment, because we're these white talking heads, which I mentioned yesterday. Vox is a website, quite popular among the intelligentsia, white beta males with glasses and goatees, talking about how rioting is, like, a justifiable response to this and that. They are destructive to a community, because they don't live in the community that is currently being victimized by riots.

So you have -- you have white liberals agreeing with white racists, saying, "There's nothing that can be done. Look what these people do." And this is a consequence of identity politics. We are now in our separate little Balkanized countries, and we can't tell people what to do.

So back to Clarke, those are the -- there needs to be more of Clarke and less of people like me, because nobody's going to listen to me, but they're going to listen to Clarke. We need it from within...

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

GUTFELD: ... to be black leaders.

WILLIAMS: Do you think -- do you think people would listen to Clarke? Because in my experience, people who don't want to hear that message will just call him a Tom.

GUTFELD: That's true.

GUILFOYLE: Well, yes, they will tune it out; they don't want to listen. But he's also making a larger, broader point about the liberal mainstream media and what we choose -- media chooses to report, how they select it, how they may not, in fact, be accurately reporting some of the moves and things by Black Lives Matter. And, you know, where is the coverage, for example, you know, of the shooter, the sister of Smith in Milwaukee, who is calling for whites to be dragged out of their cars?

GUTFELD: That was edited out.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it was all edited out. That's what I'm saying. You're not doing anyone a service by -- in fact you're doing them a disservice by editing, selectively editing the news, shaping the way it's being told, and not telling the actual story to the national audience as a whole.

As a former prosecutor working in these neighborhoods, I went into those neighborhoods, into those communities, rode along with the police, went door to door, knocking, trying to get witnesses to come forward to testify in gang shootings and things to be able to help take back their communities.

But you've got to be honest about it, and they're not helping you. There should be no excuse, despite suffering, for lawlessness and acts of crimes being encouraged and carried out against people. There is no actual, factual narrative to support violence against whites in a case where it was a black officer and a black suspect, both armed, and what ensued.

WILLIAMS: But I think that was, in fact -- that was -- there was coverage. And it reminds me of Michael Brown's father, the guy who was standing on the trunk of the car, saying horrible things about riots...


WILLIAMS: ... tear up this place. That does get covered.

The question in my mind is, if you have a David Duke, for example, do you just put in the paper every outrageous thing he says and try to spark racial riots and racial division? I don't think -- I don't think that's good. But I guess it gets out there in the media, in the Internet world these days.

Anyway, up next, one of the country's biggest insurance companies slashing its Obamacare plans next year. Will this impact the presidential race? Details when we come right back.


PERINO: A major blow to Obamacare and consumers caught in its trap. One of America's largest health insurance companies is dropping out of most individual exchanges next year. Aetna says it will stop offering policies from 15 states to just 4 in 2017. The insurance giant is opting out of the Affordable Care Act after losing more than $400 million in the past two years. It's a problem that opponents to Obamacare predicted in 2009.

We're going to keep this simple -- Jesse.

WATTERS: This is the death spiral that everybody here warned you about.

PERINO: Predicted.

WATTERS: So if only old and sick people sign up and young, healthy people don't, premiums spike. You can't afford it. Insurers lose money. They bail out, and then the thing explodes. And it's going to explode on the next president's desk, to Hillary or Trump. It's like a ticking time bomb. There's a death spiral here at home.

Obama's legacy is also a death spiral in the Middle East. This is going to be tough to deal with if Trump's president. The left is going to blame Trump for blowing this thing up. If Hillary is president, she's probably going to have to go towards single payer and throw some cash at it. Either way, it's not a good thing.

PERINO: Kimberly, both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in the 1990s were for more of a universal healthcare system. Trump has since come out and said he would repeal and replace it. That's what House Republicans and congressional -- Senate Republicans have been saying. But they couldn't break through the noise in order to get their plans out there.

Hillary, I basically think that she wants to do -- just do a full public option and go full government healthcare. Who do you think wins in that debate?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I think it's very complex. First of all, you have to be able to offer a solution. I think Hillary has a pretty clear idea, like you stated, of what she, in fact, will do and intends to do. I think she would definitely favor doing, yes, an expansion of it, in fact.

But again, I bring up the point, like, how are you going to pay for it? And you know, it's very problematic. And when you have big players in the industry like Aetna, which I have, dropping out of it, you know, it's cause for alarm and genuine concern. Because the idea was to put people in a better place, to be able to receive quality, good care.

I don't think this in any way is going to help. They should be encouraging free market, competition in terms of rates, and premiums, and coverage expansion from different companies who want to entice and encourage new people to subscribe and choose their plan.

So this, to me, contravenes and contradicts everything that kind of we stand for in this country, which is through healthy competition, providing quality care and good affordable premiums. This has been a very unfortunate and hazardous test on the American public health system. It's failed miserably.

PERINO: All right. We've got a little bit less than a minute. So we'll get Juan and Greg in here.

Juan, the Obama administration says, "Look, there's a lot of good that's happened since Obamacare."

WILLIAMS: Exactly right.

PERINO: And this doesn't necessarily help them on that messaging.

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, the messaging is, you know, indisputable. I mean, right now, according to the numbers, 90 percent of Americans are insured for the first time in history. So you know -- and most of the people who remain uninsured are eligible for Obamacare.

WATTERS: Yes, it costs about $1 trillion.

WILLIAMS: Here is the real bad news for this table, I'll tell you that. Which is that when Americans are asked, "Hey, what do you think about Obamacare? Would you repeal it?" They don't say that. No. They say the government should pay for single-payer government-supported healthcare. Oh, my gosh. I think this table is going to explode.

WATTERS: What poll is that one?

WILLIAMS: That's Gallup.

WATTERS: And it says it's unpopular by 51 to 49.

PERINO: It's unpopular, but they want more.

WILLIAMS: They want more. If you could only read polls.

GUTFELD: The problem with Santa Claus -- well, the problem with Santa Claus is no one ever wants their presents returned. Once they get them, they keep them, and that's the problem with social programs. The left knows that, once you introduce it, it's hard to un-introduce it.

And the other question that Kimberly raised is like, when they look at this stuff, you know, how are you going to pay for it? That question never enters their minds. They know they never have to answer it.

GUILFOYLE: It's like, "Uh." They're the teenagers of healthcare.

GUTFELD: Yes, and exactly. It's like as long as their heart is in the right place, they can lose their mind.

GUILFOYLE: Then it's OK, and it's OK for them to play Frankenstein with the American public in the...


WILLIAMS: Or allow the insurance companies to keep ripping us off. That's fine.

PERINO: There we go.

That will be -- we just saw a preview.

WATTERS: He subsidized the insurance companies to the tune of, like, $300 million a pop.

WILLIAMS: That's why they're jumping. Oh, OK.

WATTERS: Yes. Because they can make money.

PERINO: Zip, zip. Directly ahead. Time to get a grip. Surprising new details on how today's young men measure up against their father's generation. That's coming up next.


WATTERS: It's not just Eric Zoolander who's showing some weakness. According to researchers who clearly didn't consult with me, today's men are not nearly as strong as their dads were. A new study in the "Journal of Hand Therapy," Greg's favorite...


WATTERS: ... says millennial men have significantly weaker hands and arms than men the same age did 30 years ago.

Greg, let me see your grip?

Oh, my God, millennials. That was weak.

GUTFELD: Yes. Millennial plus 30 years. By the way, part of this -- part of this as a measure of success in innovation of previous generations who worked so hard that their children didn't have to. So the result is an effort that it needs to be transferred to the gym, because we don't have to work as hard as our parents or our grandparents are.

WATTERS: Because the illegals are doing all the work around the house?

GUTFELD: No, no, no.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God!

GUTFELD: No, anyway. The big concern...

GUILFOYLE: Please, please.

WATTERS: Serious, though.

GUTFELD: The big concern is replacement technologies. When a technology replaces human activity and you remove it, what happens to the human being? For example, the calculator. If you rely on a calculator and you take it away, you actually can't add -- you have problems doing math.

That's the problem that I see happening, especially as young men rely more and more on online activities like pornography or whatever. You become less capable in other areas.

WATTERS: I would still think you would have strong hands for doing that.

But Juan, do you think you can beat up your sons...

WILLIAMS: Oh, my goodness. My God.

WATTERS: ... or your sons can beat up you? Do you think you're stronger or weaker than your sons were?

WILLIAMS: I'm strong, but I must say, they're younger.

WATTERS: Right. You still have old man strength.

WILLIAMS: Well, no. That's true. I can use that. That's a good one.

GUILFOYLE: Very handsome.

WILLIAMS: But I like what Greg said. You know, with the cell phone, I notice these days, like you say, like what's Greg's phone number? I have no idea. Because it's always in the cell phone.

WATTERS: Do you call him?

GUTFELD: All the time. Usually at 3 in the morning.

WATTERS: That's right.

Kimberly, millennials are basically soft is what this study says. Have you noticed that in your free time?

WATTERS: Oh, my goodness.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I'm doing an in-depth study on this. I'm going to have to collect some more data. Work, though.

No. I personally think I like a man who -- let me say -- let me think about this. Think about this.

WATTERS: Has callouses on his hands?

PERINO: Looks like he's worked outside for more than one day in his life.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you, Dana. Exactly. Hence my fascination with farmers.

GUTFELD: And inmates.


WATTERS: And you grew up on a farm or a ranch somewhere? You know all about this.

PERINO: I read about this. And in "The Good News Is," because I talked about in Washington, D.C., one of the things that drove me crazy and irritated a lot of guys in D.C., but the women agreed with me, is that a lot of guys, they look like they haven't ever been outside, like never picked up a rake, or a shovel or, like, rode a horse or something.

I wonder from what you're saying, if women's preferences will evolve along with these changes, right? Will millennial young women, do they not care about soft hands?

GUILFOYLE: Maybe they don't.

GUTFELD: I don't know. I think the problem will be that men won't care enough about women, because they're inside watching porn and playing video games.

PERINO: Well, then how will we pay for Social Security?

GUILFOYLE: We want them to use their hands in a productive way, like work with your hands.

WATTERS: Yes. On that note...

GUILFOYLE: My dad told me marry someone who...

WATTERS: ... "One More Thing" is next.

WILLIAMS: Do that. Do that.


GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing" -- Dana.

PERINO: All right. It's time for this.


PERINO: Dana's Corny Joke of the Day.


PERINO: And how appropriate, because it is National Tell a Joke Day. I've got three, so it's a bonus. Olympics version. Jesse, pay attention. Why was the Olympian not able to listen to music?

WATTERS: He had no ears.

PERINO: No. Why was the Olympian not able to listen to music? Because he broke a record.

GUILFOYLE: Ah, very good.



PERINO: All right. How long does it take for the gymnast to get to practice? How long does it take for the gymnast to get to practice?

GUTFELD: A hop, skip and a jump. I don't know.

PERINO: A split second.



PERINO: OK. I bet Kennedy got that one.

All right. Why are badminton players so loud?

WATTERS: Because they're hitting...

GUTFELD: Because they cause a racket.

PERINO: Very good. You guys got it. They're always making a racket. That's -- therefore, you get the bonus question: What's the name of the fastest dinosaur at the Olympics? The name of the fastest dinosaur at the Olympics? The pronto-saurus.

GUILFOYLE: Ahh. I should have got that one.

GUTFELD: All right. K.G.

GUILFOYLE: OK, all right. I've got to get better at these. Those are kind of, like, hard.

All right. So this is a cute one. Dana, you will like this. Shelter takes dogs out for puppucinos to help get adopted. So what happens is, they pick one dog every time, and they have a little thing filled with whipped cream. Not sure that's too healthy for them. And they advertise this. And this is very cute. The Humane Society in Washington state. They feature them. It's very nice. Starbucks posts all the signs, because they want someone to come and adopt the little puppies with the puppucinos. I think it's very sweet.

PERINO: Those are healthy for dogs. They made them special -- I've got a cold.

GUTFELD: Whatever.

GUILFOYLE: Especially for the dog. OK, good.

And by the way, speaking of which, I'm going to do my live book signing tonight, 9 p.m. Eastern, Facebook live. And a special celebrity guest.


GUILFOYLE: Dana Perino and Jasper, America's dog. They have a book coming out October 25, so tune in and check us out.


WILLIAMS: All right. So last night, Tim Kaine, the Democratic vice- presidential nominee, was campaigning in Asheville, North Carolina, a great spot. And all of a sudden, he decided to play the harmonica.




WILLIAMS: So this isn't the first time. I've got to tell you, I was at Ground Zero, which is Morgan Freeman's =blue club -- blues club in Clarksdale, Mississippi, with Tim Kaine about a year ago. And he went up on stage with professional blues musicians and did a great job.

GUTFELD: There's no harmonica there.

WILLIAMS: Pretty amazing.

GUTFELD: No harmonica there. It's his hands.

All right, Jesse.

WATTERS: So "Watters' World," the show on this weekend, Saturday and Sunday night, 8 p.m. Eastern, repeats at 11, if you want to stay up that late. Also, I went to the Dominican Day parade. Here's a little taste of that.




WATTERS: OK. So There's going to be more where that came from this weekend.

GUILFOYLE: That's sped up.

WILLIAMS: Shake it. Shake it. Oh, my goodness. Look at you.

WATTERS: I can teach you a few things.

WILLIAMS: I have no questions.

GUTFELD: All right. Sad note, my hero, John McLaughlin, died. "McLaughlin Group," I watched, you know, dedicatedly for decades.


GUTFELD: He never missed a show, 34 years, until this weekend he missed a show, and he died. He was like a well-oiled machine. It was the original panel show. It had humor. It had -- it had so much stuff. He was such a great man.

PERINO: Had great argumentation.

GUTFELD: Yes. It was just a -- it was a -- it made politics fun and interesting, and he will be missed.

WILLIAMS: And he was a Jesuit.

GUTFELD: Yes, he was a Jesuit priest. That's right.

GUILFOYLE: Always very smart, the Jesuits.

GUTFELD: Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is up next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.