This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," April 16, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: I'm Laura Ingraham. This is the "Ingraham Angle" from Washington. We have two big exclusives for you tonight. Last week Congressman Devin Nunes sought criminal referrals for improper behavior during the Mueller probe. And tonight, we have the first look at just how far they go. Congressman Nunes is here with details.
Plus the "Ingraham Angle" is the first media outlet to get its hands on a brand new report from the DOJ. Oh, I love this. How many illegal aliens are in our federal prisons? Why didn't we know this before? And how do they get there? Well, exclusive details ahead, they will shock you.
And Muslim reformist Dr. Qanta Ahmed has written a piece on Congresswoman Ilhan Omar that is ripping up the Internet. Her can't-miss message to the freshman Congresswoman in moments.
But first Unapologetically American, that's the focus of tonight's "Angle". As Democrats tiptoe through the minefields of controversy brought on by, well, their most outspoken new stars, we're reminded again of one of the main reasons that Trump won and is still looking pretty good for 2020, his unabashed is Americanism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: America is the greatest fighting force for peace, justice and freedom in the history of the world.
We are not going to apologize for America. We are going to stand up for America, no more apologies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: No more apologies, no more groveling, no more self-flagellating ourselves on the world stage. Well, as certain, previous administration had done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: In America there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance, and been dismissive, even derisive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: I actually think that apology is arrogant. But - well, Trump is different. He goes over to Europe and he says, "Hey, we value our alliance. We love you guys, but it's time for NATO members to stop free-riding on the American taxpayers".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have been very, very direct NATO members must finally contribute their fair share and meet their financial obligations. But 23 of the 28 member nations are still not paying what they should be paying, this is not fair to the people and taxpayers of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Imagine that, an American President in Europe standing up for you, looking out for your hard-earned money. Of course, the foreign policy leads back home. They shuddered and they fume sputtered upon hearing all of this, preferring, of course, this approach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The United States will be willing to acknowledge past errors where those errors have been made. The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history. Each country must work through its past and reckoning with the past can help us seize a better future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Seizing a better future is exactly what President Trump has begun to do for America, but not by marinating in guilt over past wrongs in public, but by growing the economy, real hope. The Obama crew said he couldn't do it.
But with a crack team of dedicated pros, Trump renegotiated old trade deals to make them more pro-American worker and he's holding trade cheaters like China accountable, it's about time.
Now can you ever imagine Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg speaking as triumphantly, as unapologetically about American dominance in manufacturing, as Trump?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Today, jobs are coming back and pouring back, frankly like never before. Companies are coming back into our country. They want the action. Production is ramping up in the biggest way and the awesome M1 Abrams Tank is once again thundering down the assembly line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Well, Trump is also unapologetic about the government's duty to enforce our borders, and also to tailor immigration to America's needs and values. But by contrast, the Democrats, they recoil from such terms as American sovereignty and they push instead for abolishing of ICE and even abolishing the classification of illegals as illegal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-N.Y.: We are standing on native land and Latino people are descendants of native people and we cannot be told and criminalized simply for our identity or our status period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Period. Well, again, they feel angry about America's past and present. And America acting in America's interest, oh no, he can't do that.
Now the President was particularly and since last week when footage circulated of freshman Congresswoman Ilhan Omar referring to 9/11 as an occasion where "Some people did something".
So he retweeted Omar's video and then he included clips of the planes going into the World Trade Center Towers. Well the Left, they of course, they weren't upset about Omar's original comments. They're mad at Trump, claiming he's the problem endangering this woman's life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASS., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is trying to incite violence and to divide us.
SEN. CORY BOOKER , D-N.J., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She does not deserve the kind of vicious, hate-filled attacks that she's experiencing - threats on her life.
BETO O'ROURKE, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is an incitement to violence against Congresswoman Omar, against our fellow Americans who happen to Muslim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: I'm just glad someone found Beto, haven't seen him in a while. In a local interview in Minnesota yesterday Trump was characteristically unapologetic. When asked if he had second thoughts about criticizing Omar, the President replied, "No, not at all. Look, she's been very disrespectful to this country.
She's been very disrespectful, frankly, to Israel. She's someone that doesn't really understand, I think, life. Real life, what it's all about. It's unfortunate. She's got a way about her that's very, very bad, I think, for our country. I think she's extremely unpatriotic and extremely disrespectful to our country".
Disrespectful to our country - well, I think a lot of Americans agree with him. Well like Obama before her, Omar reflexively apologizes for even in tone ridiculing America for being worried about Al-Qaeda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ILHAN OMAR, D-MINN.: When I was in college I took a terrorism class. Every time the professor said Al-Qaeda, he sort of - like, his shoulders went up and you know--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he is in command there.
OMAR: Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah - you don't say America with an intensity, you don't say England with an intensity. You don't you don't say the army with an intensity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Yes, because we actually recoil at evil. America and Britain, we don't believe are evil, Congresswoman. So we bristle at that - just it's off - something's off about that. We bristle at it.
Yes, we got to be clear here she's not alone. The Democratic Party is becoming infected with this self-loathing quality.
Meaning, more of its members today feel guilty about America's past, and they want to turn that guilt into the ultimate expiation for our sins - the sins of colonialism, racism, misogyny et cetera, et cetera - keep going. And they feel justified in tearing down history, in attacking religious symbols with deep historical roots and even refusing to participate in patriotic displays.
2020 is shaping up to be a showdown between more traditional America and this new kind of twisted vision of America. And no matter who the Democratic nominee is, this is the ideological struggle before us.
And it's hard right now at least to imagine that the American people would not again embrace the true audacity that unapologetic nature of Trump, he's unwillingness to bow down to the media and political correctness at the moment, and his determination to protect the honor and the people of this country, his habit of standing up to the political elite and refusing to back down.
Now, there are words for this approach. We used to call it American leadership and maybe we still do, that's the "Angle".
Joining me now with reaction is conservative commentator and filmmaker Dinesh D'Souza and Chris Hahn, Former Aide to Senator Chuck Schumer. Dinesh today's Democratic Party seems to have a completely different vision for America than those of just - I'd go back just eight or nine years ago, so how did we get to this point where Democrats are so self-loathing, they are - they're not going to condemn Omar, but they'll condemn the President for criticizing.
DINESH D'SOUZA, CONSERVATIVE AUTHOR: Well, it seems, Laura, that under Obama we had a sort of cleavage between the people who affirmed American exceptionalism, what makes America unique and Obama himself who led the movement to say there's nothing exceptional about America, so kind of a denial of American exceptionalism.
I think today the debate has moved so that in a strange way both sides - the right and the left embrace American exceptionalism, except that the right led by Trump, affirms that what makes America unique is good. America is uniquely good.
Whereas, the Left takes the opposite view. They accept American exceptionalism, but they say America is exceptionally evil. We're worse than other countries because we are more capitalist and we are more unequal and we have more guns and we are the most racist.
So in a strange way there's an agreement on the uniqueness of America, the disagreement is over whether we are uniquely good or uniquely bad.
INGRAHAM: Chris, today Nancy Pelosi reacted to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in an interview, because she's always being asked about one of the freshmen Congresswoman, because they're out there a lot on social media. They have quite a following. This is what went down in the interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LESLEY STAHL, ANCHOR, CBS: You have these wings AOC and her group on one side--
REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.--that's like five people. This glass of water would win with a D next to its name in those districts. And not to not to diminish the exuberance and the personality and the rest of Alexandria--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: So 60 Minutes and today, so basically, anyone with a D after his or her name could get elected in those districts - don't make too much of them. Is that what's going on here? They're trying to put a little bit of a distance between Omar and the Democrat Party?
CHRIS HAHN, FORMER AIDE TO SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: I think if Speaker Boehner or Speaker Ryan would have treated the extremes of their party the same way Nancy Pelosi does in hers, they might have done more for the country than they did. Instead they were utter failures.
So I think what she said was absolutely right. We've got new members of Congress, mostly young, who have a lot of exuberance and a lot of big ideas. Should they be as jaded as we are in our older age? I don't think so, I hope not. And I do think though over time they will learn to moderate their positions and try to get things done in the direction they want to move.
And I also find it very interesting that there has been a couple attacks tonight from the Right on Mayor Pete Buttigieg and try to call him extreme. I don't know, he seems pretty milquetoast to me, other than the fact that he happens to be gay. So it's very interesting to see. I guess he's rising in the polls and he's getting attacked. I guess, he should be happy, I don't know.
INGRAHAM: Middle of the road, I don't know what - I don't know what the Green New Deal support is, I don't know what wanting to completely revise sections of our Constitution--
HAHN: He wanted--
INGRAHAM: That's not milquetoast at all. People are milquetoast--
HAHN: Well, look--
INGRAHAM: Don't see we want to rewrite the Constitution to "Heal America".
HAHN: I think a lot of people say they want to rewrite the Constitution, including the President of United States when he was running for President. He was very much against Electorate College. Now, since it worked out for him he is for it.
INGRAHAM: OK. The thing that I think the Left--
HAHN: Sure, yes.
INGRAHAM: --Dinesh, we've seen this since we were back from college, OK. The Left wants to inoculate people from criticism because they're a member of a particular minority group or a group that perceives itself to be aggrieved in the moment - whatever group that is, and Chris raises the sexual preference of the Mayor of South Bend. I don't hear anyone talking about it, except him, frankly.
But what is your take on where we are now with the criticism of these freshmen Congresswoman, because they're getting annoyed, themselves. They think they're being criticized only because you know Omar is Muslim or AOC is Latina, instead of on their ideas, which I believe, in most cases are ludicrous and are dangerous to the country.
D'SOUZA: Well I think that there should be legitimate debate on the kind of issues that are raised by Ocasio-Cortez or by Omar, but you can't have this kind of debate, because the moment you criticize them, they begin to scream and say you're only attacking us because of the color of our skin or you're only attacking us because we're Muslim.
Now the truth of the matter is--
HAHN: No once.
D'SOUZA: --had someone said what Omar did and if that person wasn't Muslim, I think it would still have been extremely controversial. Why? Because her statement left a genuine doubt. If a reasonable person were listening to her, let's say from Mars with no background, they would not be able to tell if she was on the side of the victims of 9/11 or the perpetrators.
There was a kind of ironic dismissal of what happened at 9/11, and so people were legitimately outraged about it. This is an assault on the country as a whole. So the suspicion of anti-Americanism seems to have had some legitimate basis.
And then look at the way that the Left is protecting her, circling the wagons and making it look like Trump was the bad guy. Even though nothing could be more accurate than a commercial that merely juxtaposes--
HAHN: What a propaganda--
D'SOUZA: --her actual words with what happened on 9/11.
INGRAHAM: We're propagandists for home, Chris. I mean, you just came up show and you just said--
HAHN: You know--
INGRAHAM: Hold on, hold on. You just said that Boehner would have been more successful if he didn't listen to, I guess, the more of the Tea Party, more traditional conservatives. Boehner is working for like a pro pot group now after saying he was against pot legalization.
He completely sold out for money for pot, OK. So don't stay that Boehner is a some great savior of the Republican Party. Boehner took his party down--
HAHN: No, no, no. I said he could have - you - I said he could have gotten more things done if he would have taken the extremists in his party and put them to the side, the same way Nancy Pelosi did.
INGRAHAM: What are you talking about? You mean Donald Trump who won the Presidency?
HAHN: --because Nancy Pelosi is a leader and he was not. And neither was Paul Ryan.
INGRAHAM: --Donald Trump who won the Presidency, he - like Trump. Get out, that's ridiculous. I mean, it's for pot. Donald Trump won, Chris - he own, do you get it?
HAHN: Well, we're not - I don't - we're talking about what I find preposterous is that there's a environmental crisis, people are talking about this Green New Deal. At least people throwing some ideas out there. I'd like to see the Right come back with their own ideas and we can meet in the middle like we used to do in America.
Instead, we demonize - guys like Dinesh demonize people on the Left who are coming up with ideas, instead of coming up with their own ideas to try to come back those ideas, so we can meet in the middle.
INGRAHAM: Are you saying Chris Hahn, and Dinesh you have to respond. The idea that the Left - I mean having been the victim of this and I don't whine about it, because it's the way it is in the arena. They are the biggest demonizers out there. OK? They want to run people off the airwaves, they want to play their little editing. This is what the Left does, OK. We want to debate issues.
HAHN: I don't talk for that.
INGRAHAM: You want to debate the Green New Deal, we'll do that all day long, about who gets to choose which car gets to thrown in the trash heap, Chris? But Dinesh--
HAHN: Well, how about somebody comes up with another idea to save the planet?
INGRAHAM: --the Left plays this game all day long. Don't criticize me, I'm a person of this background or this background.
HAHN: I don't think so. I haven't heard that one.
INGRAHAM: But if are conservative, you can be called every name in the book, Dinesh close it out.
D'SOUZA: Well, right after right after Trump's election - I think Chris will remember. There was a big discussion on the Left about how to treat Trump and there was the affirmation that Trump cannot be allowed to be normalized.
In other words, we can't have normal political debate in this country. Why? Because Trump is sort of like Hitler circa 1933. We've got to treat him as the demonic force that he is. When we have a panel we don't want to have a single Trumpster on it.
And look this is how our debate has been. We've had three years of accusation and investigation and no real debate. And I think that's been the fault of the Left, not of Trump. Trump has been trying to put issues on the agenda.
Even Trump's trade policy, have we had a real debate about it? No. Why? Because of this atmosphere of intimidation, accusation, investigation and that's about it.
INGRAHAM: All right, Chris, real quick. We got to go, real quick.
HAHN: There's been a lot to investigate, the last couple years. Mostly - not only the President, but some of the people he put in his cabinet, who are no longer with his cabinet. He now has a cabinet that's mostly acting. If he really loves this country in its Constitution, he would appoint people and let the Senate confirm them, the way the founders intended it.
INGRAHAM: OK. Guys we're - all right, we both got - all of us got our lexicon here. But I'm--
HAHN: We did.
INGRAHAM: --all about having a debate about big ideas. But don't try to claim that the Right is the only hardball player in the room, Chris Hahn. That is a joke. The left is in the demonization game. They call Trump a traitor for two years and those were defamatory lies.
HAHN: I think it's hardball, I think --
INGRAHAM: Lies. All right. Guys, we got to go. Our next guest--
HAHN: We've said this before, politics ain't beanbag (ph).
INGRAHAM: All right. We got to go. My next guest is an American Muslim doctor. She says Congresswoman Omar is an embarrassment and a disgrace to the Muslim community. Joining me now is Dr. Qanta Ahmed, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a counselor at the USC Shoah Foundation.
Doctor you also say that Omar is not the victim she portrays herself to be. Great to have you on why is that?
DR. QANTA AHMED, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: It's just diabolical that she commits yet another violence against the families of survivors of 9/11 and the families of victims of 9/11.
Foremost, I'm a physician who takes care of people that have survived or had diseases complicated by the World Trade Center attacks. That was devastating remarks that I actually heard while I was in Africa in Rwanda, commemorating a genocide there.
She is depicting in this diminishment what I would describe as an a profound denial of 9/11. And as you know, I work a lot with anti-Semitism and it reminds me of the mentality of Holocaust deniers, or as we've seen in Rwanda, there are some who would deny the genocide there too.
So this denial raises in me a couple of questions. Does she really think 9/11 was not an Islamist, jihadist attack which came from within the Muslim fold? The Koran tells us, Islam tells us we must be strict in observing justice, even if it means bearing witness against ourselves, against our kith and our kin.
And it also tells us, we have to do that with impartiality. We cannot be biased if we have certain prejudices. She harbors prejudices. She diminished the worst attack on this country since Pearl Harbor and she does an assault on my patients and all families who are grieving for their survivors.
It's despicable, worse, is that opponents, whether in her party or not, are shielding her from the kind of searing criticism she deserves.
INGRAHAM: Well, Dr. Ahmed, we're going to have an entire hour on just this conversation of Islam in the world today, especially its role in America. And this conversation should focus on the facts - you just laid out a whole bunch of them. We really appreciate your being with us tonight. Thank you so much.
AHMED: Thank you, Laura. And if I can just say this observation of denying 9/11 was made to me when we discussed this in Rwanda with Muslims - with African Muslims.
INGRAHAM: Got it. We're going to keep this conversation going, but we appreciate your joining us.
Up next just how far will Bill Barr's investigation to spying on the Trump team go, Congressman Devin Nunes in an exclusive next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEVIN NUNES, R-CALIF.: Five of them are what I would call straight up referrals. So just referrals that are - that name someone and name the specific crimes. Those crimes are lying to Congress, misleading Congress, leaking classified information, so five of them are those types.
There are three that, I think, are more complicated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Well, that was next guest, House Intel Ranking Member Devin Nunes talking about the eight criminal referrals he sent to Attorney General Bill Barr, alleging multiple violations during the Mueller investigation.
Well tonight we have an important update. Sources familiar with the matter tell Fox News that the referrals include conspiracy, go beyond the eight individuals, and we'll look at the steal dossiers origins.
Joining me now on these developments, Congressman Devin Nunes, Congressman good to have you with us tonight. You say you're looking for--
NUNES: Great to be with you.
INGRAHAM: --to three key issues - key questions in this Mueller report. Now what do you want to see address specifically?
NUNES: Well, what I'm going to be looking for is there's three specific areas where I think there was some type of setup involved. So the first is involved with General Flynn. General Flynn was supposedly entrapped - was meeting with a Russian woman. I want to know what really happened there. Because we're just now finding out about this and we need more - a lot more information on what really was General Flynn doing, because it's a big deal.
If somebody within our intelligence agencies were accusing a Three Star General of having some type of Russian fling, it's serious stuff, and I want to I want to get to the bottom of that.
INGRAHAM: All right.
NUNES: The second big question you have is Joseph Mifsud is how this whole investigation started. And let me tell you, Mueller describes him as some type of Russian asset of some kind. Well.
If Joseph Mifsud was a Russian asset, we've got big problems with our British and Italian allies, because he seems to be pictured with every British and an Italian person that we know of. So that's something we also want to know about. And Mifsud was the guy who set up Papadopoulos.
Finally, the third issue I'm going to know about is this infamous Trump Tower meeting. When you hear the Democrats talk about that there's evidence in plain sight. Well, the Russians that are involved in the Trump Tower - the infamous Trump Tower meeting in New York, I call them the Fusion GPS Russians.
Fusion GPS was the company that was working for the Clinton campaign and the Democrats and somehow Glenn Simpson meets with them before and after, and he's actually - these are Russians that he's doing work for. I mean come on, if Mueller can't get to the bottom this and answer this for the American people, I don't know what the report was really worth.
INGRAHAM: So in in on Thursday the Democrats are going to complain invariably what they have before inevitably that the report contains redactions. Isn't it the case that ranking members with a certain clearance level can go read the unredacted report in what's called a skiff, a secure area.
So Pelosi, in other words, and Schiff and in others - obviously, you can, go read the whole report. And if they think the redactions are wrong, they can actually make a fuss about those. So isn't this whole redemption kind of ridiculous?
NUNES: Yes, so what you're referring to is the Gang of Eight. So the Gang of Eight is made up of the Democrat Republican leader in the in the House and the Senate and then the Chair and Ranking Member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Intelligence Committee.
So I would see no reason why we couldn't go into a skiff over the Department of Justice. We've had to do it many times over the course of this investigation over the last two-plus years, go over there and read whatever is redacted.
At that point if there was something that they really wanted out, they could put it out. But remember what's happened over the last two and a half years, Laura.. What you had is you had leaks, leaks at the highest level coming from someone within the FBI or the Department of Justice or just making something up out of whole cloth that the media would jump on. And I hope that we don't have that problem. I hope that we don't have an issue where there is redactions where you have people leaking, this is what the redactions really mean, because we know one thing. Whatever happens on Thursday, Donald Trump is a free man. There is no evidence whatsoever of collusion. They tried to frame him on obstruction of justice, and they didn't get him on that either even though they tried.
So this thing is over on Thursday for the American people, but the Democrats in Congress are going to continue to try to investigate, and my guess is that their friends in the media will play a part in it.
INGRAHAM: No, no, no. They're going to go nuts. They're going to go crazy on Thursday, all the way through the second and third week of Easter.
Congressman, today three top Republicans in the Senate demanding information on the handling of the Clinton email probe. And in a letter to the DOJ, Senators Grassley, Johnson, and Graham wrote "Now that the Special Counsel's investigation has concluded, we are unaware of any legitimate basis upon which the Department can refuse to answer the Judiciary Committee's inquiries." So this is obviously in the Senate, but this is something you all are interested in as well, correct?
NUNES: Very much so. And also don't forget, it was the Mueller investigation, Mueller himself who did not allow us to see certain documents that we wanted to see over the last two-and-a-half years. Remember, we have to come on your show. And I would subpoena Rod Rosenstein, and then we would get in this big fight. Eventually we'd have to go over to the Department of Justice.
There are several documents that at the end of the day they fell back to this is the special counsel. Sorry, you can't see it. We want to see those documents too. That's why I go back to what I said at the beginning of this piece is that there are some really serious unanswered questions that the American people need answers to, and if they're not in the Mueller report, hopefully Attorney General Barr is going to get us those answers.
INGRAHAM: If people were convicted or forced to plead guilty when prosecutors had exculpatory information or investigators had exculpatory information on them, whether it was Flynn or Papadopoulos, maybe even Carter Page, that entire surveillance of him and Roger Stone. Everyone has to know about this. Congressman, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
And up next we have another "Ingraham Angle" exclusive. Minutes ago, the DOJ released its first report on illegal immigrants in the U.S. prison system. So just how many are there, and what are they doing in prison? What kind of crimes? The staggering statistics next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: Newcomers bring vitality and courage and optimism and determination to make the future better.
JULIAN CASTRO, D-PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: We are not going to treat migrants like criminals. We are going to treat them like human beings. We are going to let them claim asylum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: While Democrats are singing kumbaya about illegal immigrants, "The Ingraham Angle" is getting you exclusive new details about what they are doing once they cross the border. Just moments ago, the Department of Justice released a brand-new report on the federal prison population and its illegal immigrant inhabitants. Now, we are the very first media outlet to get our hands on this new data, and we are looking at it all for you, and a lot of the details will shock you.
Joining me now is Zach Terwilliger, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. Zach, it's great to see you tonight. The DOJ found that out of the nearly 60,000 known or suspected illegal immigrants in our federal prison system, 68 percent had already had a federal removal order filed against them. So this is only federal prisons, by the way. People should understand these are not state prison populations, which are significantly greater.
ZACHARY TERWILLIGER, U.S. ATTORNEY, EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA: Exactly, Laura. I think one of the most important things that this report is we finally have some data. As you know better than anyone, we've got to have data to actually solve a problem. And the numbers I thought that were stood out most to me were the fact that 21 percent of the individuals in BOP custody are criminal aliens.
INGRAHAM: Bureau of Prisons.
TERWILLIGER: Bureau of Prisons. And then within Marshals custody, 38 percent. We're talking about 38 percent of the individuals in Marshals custody --
INGRAHAM: Explain what that means to our viewers.
TERWILLIGER: That basically means that you are either sentenced to a period of imprisonment that's so short you're not going to be transferred to the Bureau of Prisons, or you're pretrial. So when you talk about the number of individuals who are detained pretrial, 38 percent of which are criminal aliens, that is a staggering amount of our federal resources being used on one problem.
INGRAHAM: And yet the headlines are often reading like this. Reports find that immigrants commit less crime than U.S.-born citizens. So everyone sits back and says, that's a relief. But is it a relief given these numbers? Tens of thousands of illegal immigrant criminals in federal prison custody, and the cost to the taxpayer. We don't often talk about it, the human carnage in the case of violent crime, but the cost, what is it per inmates?
TERWILLIGER: One of the things that the report wasn't able to do is really quantify that as much as we would like. I think it's one of things they're going to strive for in the next report. The one figure that I saw on my napkin math was that it cost about half-a-billion dollars annually for the Marshal service to cater to the illegal alien population in their custody. So it's a tremendous amount of money. But at the same time the resources, at a time when we need the marshals hunting down fugitives, providing security at courthouses, doing what they do best, the fact that we're spending this much in the midst of an opioid epidemic, violent crime rates rising in certain places, on this one problem, it's just really staggering.
INGRAHAM: We're not talking just about minor offenses either, are we, Zach? The numbers again from the DOJ tonight reveal that 46 percent of illegals in federal prisons are there on serious drug trafficking or other drug related offenses.
TERWILLIGER: And that's a really important point to make, reading between the lines of the report, some of the finer print in the lower paragraphs, they talk about how those are drug trafficking offenses. We're not talking about the nonviolent simple possession. These are actually drug traffickers. And a lot of times those are individuals who are apprehended with massive loads walking across the border. So that's absolutely right, 46 percent.
INGRAHAM: What are the other types of crimes that are involved in this population?
TERWILLIGER: So one of the crimes that I have encountered most recently in the Eastern district of Virginia run the gamut from individuals who have illegally reentered the country. So those are folks who have been deported, illegally reenter the country, came back, all the way up to hardened MS-13 members who are engaged in racketeering enterprises, human trafficking, things like that. So the population of criminal aliens and the offenses they commit and are committed to the Bureau of Prison is similar to that of our general population.
INGRAHAM: The money that we devote to this, the apprehension of, the housing, the feeding, the processing of people and our prisons today is so staggering. People kind of forget about this, it costs real money to do this. And so people talk about enforcing the border costs all his money. Not enforcing the border costs human lives, the time of our law enforcement officials, and all the resources on top of that that. We've got to know the actual dollar figures. It can't be that hard to find out.
TERWILLIGER: Yes, and I think that's one of the things they're looking at. And one of the things, I don't know if you've experienced this as well, but whenever I issue a press release on a case, some of the comments on the commentary we'll get back is why aren't you just deporting them? Imagine if folks knew that they could sneak into the country illegally, come here, commit crimes, and their only punishment would be to be deported.
So I believe we've a rule of law country. These individuals do need to serve prison sentences that they've earned. And unfortunately, that's at taxpayer expense. So the answer is not just turn these people around and send them back after they've been caught committing crimes here. So I agree with you that it's expensive, and the money would be better spent securing our border.
INGRAHAM: Do the time, deport them out of the country, secure the border so they can't come back.
TERWILLIGER: That's the problem. A lot of these individuals are multi- time reentrants.
INGRAHAM: I'm so glad you did this report. I'm glad we had it tonight before anyone else, because, as you know, this issue is near and dear to my heart, and I think all of our viewers. Thank you so much, Zach. Thank you for your service to this country as U.S. attorney. We really appreciate it.
TERWILLIGER: Thank you for having me.
INGRAHAM: And as the world mourns the tragedy at the historic Notre Dame Cathedral, my next guest says there's a lesson for those trying to erase history here in our own country. Victor Davis Hanson is here next with the unique take.
INGRAHAM: Hundreds marched through the streets of Paris today to ask for the intercession of Notre Dame, Our Lady. The cathedral named in her honor was heavily damaged by fire yesterday, but it is structurally sound. French President Macron vows it will be rebuilt as donations pour in from around the world. And amid the tragedy at Notre Dame, there is a lesson to be learned.
Joining me now is Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. Victor, you say there's an irony in the history here in the aftermath of this architectural tragedy, tragedy in terms of what we've lost in church history. What is the irony?
VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, HOOVER INSTITUTION: After 800 years, we were the steward of this iconic representation of western civilization, Catholicism, Christendom. And of all the years, 2019, at the height of our sophistication and technology, I'm not blaming the French or anybody, but we were found wanting and we didn't protect this icon. And we don't build them anymore.
There's great churches and cathedrals that go up all over the world, but, Laura, they are in Poland. They are in Cairo. They are in the Ivory Coast, they're in Brazil, they're in India. It's almost as if the places that are less affluent without the technology of western Europe and the United States are like we used to be. They still believe in transcendence. They still believe in something other than this world.
And so it's going to be very hard in our society to ever build a cathedral again, much less to repair them, because we don't believe in what they represented. And it's ironic, because we don't like the past. We are at war with the past. We tear down monuments. We don't build cathedrals. We race names. We say to Father Serra or Christopher Columbus, you don't live up to our standards of race, class, and gender, moral superiority. Shame on you.
INGRAHAM: We'll wipe you out.
HANSON: And when you have that attitude, you don't have a reference. Yes, we are not good stewards of the inheritance that were bequeathed to us.
INGRAHAM: So Victor, in "Rolling Stone" today, this was what was written. "Any rebuilding should be a reflection not of an old France or the France that never was, a non-secular, white European France, but a reflection of the France of today, a France that is currently in the making." So kind of an interfaith, very large gathering house, Victor, is that what the new cathedral will be?
HANSON: Yes, the person who said that course, they could be at Verdun and say to the German army you shall not pass, and save French democracy from the Kaiser, or they could have been in the French resistance in World War II and say we're not going to let the Nazis take over the beauty and wonder of France. And this is the France of Madame Curie, and this is the France of the Enlightenment. So for this ignoramus to say that modern France is so much greater than its checkered past, he's a creation of French intellectual excellence and beauty and cultural superiority in many ways.
We owe -- much of the world owes a lot to France, and that was embodied with the Notre Dame Cathedral. It's embodied in the Louvre, it's embodied in the French Academy. And he should be really ashamed of himself, because he's a pygmy, and he's really sitting on the shoulders of giants whose names we have forgotten in this period of intellectual and cultural arrogance.
INGRAHAM: Victor, we talk about this a lot. We are almost out of time. But universities spend an enormous amount of time, student's time and energy and tuition dollars, tearing down western civilization. It wasn't so great, the music wasn't so great, architecture, history riddled with racism and classism and all these other things.
So all day long on colleges, we hear western civilization, bad. Then people cry when they see this spire collapse in the flames that can never be rebuilt as it was built. We don't have the wood. We don't have the artisans. It can be rebuilt, but it will never be what it was. But they spent all day trashing western civilization, and now people are rightly mourning it. But it's an imbalance. Final thoughts, real quick.
HANSON: Because they feel something. They feel there is a spiritual loss, there's a cultural loss. But they are too timid or cowardly to articulate it, because to articulate it would not be politically correct. But it's such beauty that transcends things. They can feel it. They just don't want to admit they feel it.
INGRAHAM: They don't want to admit the God thing. Victor, thank you so much. Great to see you, as always.
And a breaking development tonight in the Jussie Smollett case. Trace Gallagher is here with all the details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM FOXX, COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS, STATE'S ATTORNEY: The efforts that I've had on criminal justice reform that were ones celebrated by many in this county that are now being attacked because of one case and one celebrity, I think we have to ask ourselves what is this really about? As the first African-American woman in this role, it is disheartening to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: That was Cook County Prosecutor Kim Foxx who dropped charges against hate crime hoaxer Jussie Smollett. She claimed criticism of her actions were racially motivated, big shock. But breaking tonight, new text messages could reveal her true motives. Trace Gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom with the breaking developments. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Laura, these text messages were obtained by FOX News, and in them, Cook County State's Attorney Kim Foxx acknowledged that she had recused herself from the case, but clearly she was still heavily involved. In fact, right after Jussie Smollett had been charged with staging a hate crime hoax, FOX sent a text to her top deputy Joseph Magats, saying that compared to R&B star R. Kelly, Smollett had been overcharged. Quoting, "Pedophile with four victims, 10 counts. Washed up celeb who lied to cops, 16," meaning counts. "Just that we can charge something doesn't mean we should."
Magats responds, quote, "Agreed. We can get a hard look at how we charge the cases and get it to something that covers what needs to be covered without being excessive and ultimately pointless." And on the day the charges were dropped, Foxx texted that she had just spoken with Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson. Quote, laugh out loud, "He's at the police recruit event, needed to know how to answer questions from press. Told him essentially deferred prosecution, paying 10k restitution to the city, and completed community service. He was told we were just dropping the case. He seemed satisfied with the explanation." Except, Eddie Johnson was furious with the decision, as was then Mayor Rahm Emanuel, whose administration is now suing Smollett for $130,000 to cover the cost of the investigation.
And while these text messages have been released, the state's attorney's office is refusing to release internal files because a judge ordered the case sealed. Despite very strong evidence against him, Jussie Smollett maintains his innocence.
INGRAHAM: Awesome report. Thanks so much, Trace, and we'll be right back.
INGRAHAM: Quoted in Rolling Stone today, a Harvard architectural historian, Patricio del Real, said the following about Notre Dame. "The building was so overburdened with meaning that it's burning feels like an act of liberation." It fits right in with what we started the show with.
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