Dr. Ben Carson blasts Black Lives Matter movement on 'The Kelly File'

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," August 24, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, Republican candidate Ben Carson unleashes a dramatic new message in the 2016 race for president as he launch as scathing critique of the Black Lives Matter movement. Some of America's big city mayors and the entire Democratic Party.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. It hit just a couple of hours ago. A USA Today editorial from Dr. Ben Carson that specifically speaks to black voters but concerns the entire country. Dr. Carson goes directly after the Black Lives Matter Movement saying, they are distracting people from what matters most. He says the real problem for minority communities is not the police departments. It is young people who cannot find jobs. Parents who don't have the skills to compete.

And violence that tears apart these neighborhoods. He writes about growing up with bullets, drugs and death in the places he played tag with friends. How his older cousins died on the streets but his mother made sure it didn't happen to him using little more than a library card. Dr. Carson issues his own call to action. Telling folks if they want to march, they should on local education boards to protests schools that have failed hold generations. On an entertainment industry that glamorizes black men as thugs and women as trash.

On City Hall to ask how living behind three dead bolts is living in freedom on crack houses before they tear them down. On Washington to ask about a war on poverty that left poverty winning and black communities losing. On Democrats to tell them, Black Americans don't want to be clothed and fed and housed by their government. They want their honor and dignity. And on the Republican Party, to tell its members, they have ignored black America for far too long.

Dr. Ben Carson is a Republican candidate for president. Dr. Carson, thank you for being here. And whoa!


KELLY: Way to lay it out. I mean, we have been talking for months on this show about how some believe too few in the black community have turned and said, stop, don't act as victims. And don't look squarely at the police. Start looking inward. It is not that you don't look at the police at all. It's not that there is no police brutality. But there is a major problem plaguing inner city America right now that in too many circles has been ignored.

CARSON: Well, it is a big problem. And actually, there are a lot of people in the black community who actually think the way that I do. But it's very risky to actually say it. Because then you'll be called a name.  You'll be scorned. And that is what the established progressive party wants. They don't want anybody to speak out against this. And they want to demonize anybody who does so. Because they want to maintain their power. And I think a lot of people are starting to wake up. I'm not sure they'll going to be able to maintain this grasp over the black community going into the future. I'm certainly hoping that's the case.

KELLY: You talk about how you believed it was your destiny to wind up dead on the streets. That you also thought like your older cousins, you would not live to see adulthood. But your mother changed everything for you. And you've said similar things in the past and people have dismissed you as oversimplifying the problems in inner city America with the library card.

CARSON: Well, I can tell you, if I could multiply my mother and put her in all of those homes with little kids growing up, you would see a very different outcome.

KELLY: How? What was about her messaging to you?

CARSON: Well, she refused to be a victim. And she refused to let us be victims. And she always said, there is something that you can do. You do not have to sit around and wait for somebody else to do things for you.  And that really informed the way that I thought about things. Informed the way that my brother thought about things. And, you know, there were other people that I knew in the neighborhood whose parents were like that. Who also turned out to be shining examples. It is not a fluke by any stretch of the imagination.

KELLY: You talk about the schools and how abysmally they have failed inner city America saying the teacher's unions, their failures don't kill as quickly as a bullet but they do kill as surely as one.

CARSON: Absolutely. Because education is the great divide in this country. It doesn't matter what your ethnic background or your socio economic background is. If you get a good education, you write your own ticket. End of story. No ifs, ands and buts about it. And we need to be emphasizing that. You know, one of the things that I tell people all the time is, during slavery, it was illegal to teach a slave to read. Why do you think that was? Because even those evil masters knew that an educated man is a free man.

KELLY: What are the -- I know you said you believe the Democrats, they basically want to provide public assistance for these communities as opposed to help them, encourage them to lift themselves out. To change their lives as you did in your own family. But you also cast blame on the Republicans for ignoring these communities. Do you sense a real opportunity? I think the assumption by many is that black voters, in inner city America, are not going to vote for a Republican. Even a black Republican doctor success story like yourself.

CARSON: Well, you know, I've had many black Democrats come up to me recently and say, you make so much sense. I'm a democrat but I'm voting for you. I get that all the time. And I know that's exactly what the progressives are afraid of and don't want to hear. But at some point people are going to start thinking about their own interests. And myself and a number of my Republican colleagues are very interested in putting together mechanisms that allow people to climb out of dependency and to become strong parts of the fabric of America. That's what we're working on. It doesn't do any good to pat people on the head and give them all the little things that they need so they're satisfied in a state of dependency.  That's exactly what we don't need. That's killing us. And I think people are waking up to that.

KELLY: You write in your piece, we don't want a plan to give us public housing in nice neighborhoods. We want an end excuses for schools that leave us without the means to buy our own houses, where we chose to live. We want the skills needed to compete. Not a consolation prize with -- food stamps and a lifetime of government paperwork. And to the Republican Party, we need to tell them, they have ignored us for too long.  Dr. Carson, great to see you. Thanks for being here.

CARSON: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Dr. Carson is not the only African-American lashing out at the Black Lives Matter movement. As one woman takes on the protesters, with a message that has racked up more than seven million views in just a few days. Watch.


PEGGY HUBBARD, FORMER NAVY OFFICER: You're kidding me. Police brutality? How about black brutality? You black people, my black people, you are the (bleep) most violent (bleep) I've ever seen in my life.


KELLY: Up next, Dr. Cornell West and Kevin Jackson joins us to debate her message and to react to Dr. Carson's comments just moments ago. Don't miss this.

And then, new outrage as a decorated green beret fights to keep his job after he gets in major trouble for defending a rape victim overseas.  It turns out he roughed up the rapist a very little according to the authorities, now he is about to get cut loose from the army. Really?  We'll speak to the congressman trying to defend the soldier.

Plus, family values advocate Josh Duggar is in new trouble, you may have heard, after his name turns up on a website for people who cheat on their spouse. And he's admitting being ensconced in something. We'll have an update.


KELLY: This is it, right? There is not like another big Duggar family speak with that is going to come out?




KELLY: Back now with the news breaking on Dr. Ben Carson's dramatic new message on the 2016 race for president. And he is not the only one lashing out at the Black Lives Matter Movement. As a woman who grew up just 15 miles from Ferguson, Missouri takes to Facebook with an epic critique that has already been viewed by more than seven million people, or at least seven million times. It posted last week after protesters marched through St. Louis. They were angry about police shooting to death a young man who allegedly pointed a gun at an officer. But what you did not hear them protesting was the murder of a nine-year-old girl, killed a day earlier in Ferguson as a stray bullet came through the walls of her mother's bedroom. She died in her grandma's arms.

Listen now to the message from Peggy Hubbard.


HUBBARD: Are you (bleep) kidding me? Police brutality? How about black brutality? A little girl is dead. You say black lives matter? Her life mattered. Her dreams mattered. Her future mattered. Her promises mattered. It mattered. But night after night after night, murder, murder, murder, murder, murder. Black on black murder. But yet you (bleep) are out there tearing up your own (bleep), it's not your other people's (bleep). You (bleep) yell at the police. You. You're shooting at the police. Police drops you. All so and so. He died from police brutality.  One hundred and twenty seven homicides later, you want to yell police brutality? Black people. You're a joke. You're tearing up communities over thugs and criminals. You think the police are out here for fun? Do you think they're out here for game? You shoot at them? They're going to shoot at you. That's the realism of it. If you're trying to kill them, their job is to serve and protect. Not serve and die.


KELLY: Hmm. Conservative radio host Kevin Jackson joins us in a moment. But first, we're joined by Dr. Cornell West, an author and professor at Union Theological Seminary. Doctor, good to see you tonight.  Thank you. What do you make of Peggy Hubbard and her message?

DR. CORNELL WEST, UNION THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Well, I think she's traumatized, she's terrorized, she's certainly right to have the kind of empathy she does in terms of the deaths taking place in black communities.  But we have to make a difference between state sponsored violence against black people and violence against black people and the actions of black people do to each other, both of them of course are very important. But they're not the same thing. I come from a strong family. Strong church.  Shiloh Baptist Church. You know, Anthony Sadler, one of the three in France, his father is a pastor of my church in Shiloh. So, I come from a strong family and church. But I also know there is a state of siege taking place in Black America. The tremendous state of the emergency that Dr. Carson rightly talks about.

KELLY: You agree with Dr. Carson's --

WEST: He is right about the state of emergency, he is right about inequality education, we certainly writes about, we must have jobs, we have a living wage. But at the same time, we can't get that given the way in which our society is organized.

KELLY: But to his point --

WEST: And this is where our brother Bernie Sanders comes in.

KELLY: But that's actually -- Dr. Carson --

WEST: No welfare. Jobs with a living wage, yes.

KELLY: Dr. Carson was making that point in the USA Today, where he says, black people in inner city America should not be focused on Bernie Sanders.


He says my mother who got me out of poverty was not focused on some socialist in a small state. She was focused on getting me to learn how to read and learning to pull myself up.

WEST: Yes. But they should be concerned on Martin Luther King, Jr., right? Martin Luther King, Jr. was a democratic socialist. He was concerned about strong family, strong church, strong mosque, strong synagogue, strong institution but jobs with a living wage, quality education, decent housing, not -- by government by seize owing to opportunities make it available by the society.

KELLY: But what about you because you're part of the Black Lives Matter Movement.

WEST: Oh, I'm a small part. I'm a very proud part.

KELLY: So, what about that? Because the point that Peggy was making there.

WEST: Yes.

KELLY: And Dr. Carson too is, you go out and you protest over this one guy who gets killed by a cop after he pulled a gun on the cop but no protest over the death of this little girl. Where is the protest over the state of inner city America and the policies that have left African- Americans in these communities in the state they are?

WEST: The sister Yana Jones (ph) in Detroit, seven-years-old. Shot by the police. We are to be full of righteous indignation. This precious sister that Sister Peggy is concerned about killed by some black person.  We ought to be rightly concerned about. But the focus on the state sponsored violence, versus the individual violence that takes place across the board are two different things.

KELLY: But the number are staggering. I mean, huge. The numbers on the one dwarf the numbers of the police brutality.

WEST: Yes. Well, sister Megyn, you know, when you socially neglect people, when you economically abandon people, when you transfer wealth from them to the well to do, generation after generation, how will they respond?  They'll going to respond with unbelievable levels of very sad forms of despair. This is true for anybody. I don't care what color you are. It's true with Appalachian (ph), it's true on the indigenous people, it's true with brown, it's true all around the world, it's true for Irish, it's true for Greeks as a human thing when you abandoned folks.

KELLY: Doc, I have to go.

WEST: Thank you for your honesty.

KELLY: Great to see you.

WEST: Thank you so much,

KELLY: Kevin Jackson is here as well. He's executive director of the BlackSphere.net. And author of the book, "Race Pimping." Kevin, your thoughts.

KEVIN JACKSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THEBLACKSPHERE.NET: Hey, Megyn.  Dr. Cornell West is an -- he's stuck in the '60s. Everything he's talking about are things that don't apply today. What Peggy said is exactly what is happening. I grew up, my dad was in San Quentin prison. My mother died when I was five. If I would live with my father, I wouldn't be standing, sitting in-front of this camera, I would be in prison. I got raised by my grandparents who instilled the right types of things in me. And the problem is, we're instilling violence and craziness in the black community.  And Peggy got it right. Dr. Carson got it right. It's strong black family members raising children correctly that are going to correct this problem.  It's not going to be more enabling bodies, bushwa, cocktail sipping leftist and he's enabling democrat policies and leftist policies and progressive policies. And unfortunately --

KELLY: But you heard the messaging. You heard the messaging from Cornel West. Which is income inequality. And the system, I mean, the messaging is that it is rigged against these communities.

JACKSON: Well, he's lying. It isn't rigged against this. The only thing that's rigged against you is when somebody can get inside of your mind and make you believe you're less than somebody else. And Dr. Carson is an example of somebody who didn't believe it. And I am as well. Look, when we start empowering these young kids to believe that they are worthy and that it isn't the thug life that's going to make their lives different, it's going to be them deciding to pick themselves up and do something with their lives. It's going to change. But it isn't going to change if we don't allow people like Peggy to speak their mind. And I love what she did because it was so impassioned and she is from the same streets.

I'm from the same vicinity as she is saying the same thing. And you know, what? We shouldn't be looking at her as a hero. I'm glad she did it. She should be the shining example of what many black people in this community are doing. And unfortunately, she is not. She is more anecdotal. But what's not anecdotal is the crime in black neighborhoods and you alluded to it with Cornell West. There are many more blacks being killed by blacks with stray bullets and drive bys and everything than cops killing black people but that's not the narrative that sells.

KELLY: And amazingly, that is not what pushes people to the streets, the death of these young women, these young girls, these young boys who get shot in the drive bys. And I understand his distinction between when a law enforcement officer does it versus when a criminals does it. But when you have the criminals doing it, these overwhelming numbers, it is shocking and it's deeply sad. Kevin, it's great to see you.

JACKSON: You too, Megyn.

KELLY: Extraordinary, right? Extraordinary. So we've got Ben Carson editorial now on our Facebook page if you want to go check it out.  Facebook.com/thekellyfile.

And we also have some news breaking tonight. As Governor Jeb Bush goes after Donald Trump's immigration plan as unworkable, unrealistic and not conservative.

Chris Stirewalt is here next, as the gloves come off and we get some new polls on Hispanics and Mr. Trump.

Plus, three American heroes being honored for their courage in taking down the gunman behind the terror attack in a train. One of the proud parents joined us live.


SPENCER STONE, U.S. AIR FORCE: I turned around and I saw he had what looked to be an AK-47. And it looked like it was jammed or wasn't working and he was trying to charge the weapon. And Alex just hit me on the shoulder and say, let's go.



KELLY: Breaking tonight, the gloves come off in the race for the White House as a leading Republican contender attacks Donald Trump, the frontrunner calling his immigration proposals unrealistic and not conservative. The remarks come as Governor Jeb Bush tours the U.S./Mexican border in McAllen, Texas with illegal immigration becoming the top issue for the GOP field, Mr. Bush suggests that Donald Trump is way off base.


JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump's plans are not ground in the conservative principle. It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars. It's not realistic, it will violate people's civil liberties.  It will create friction with our third largest trading partner which is not necessary. He is a serious candidate. And he ought to be held to what serious candidates needs to be held to, he needs to be held to account for his views.


KELLY: Governor Bush is talking specifically about recent suggestions by Mr. Trump that include calling for Mexico to pay for the wall on the U.S. Mexican border, deporting the 11 million plus illegal immigrants now living in the U.S. and taking away automatic American citizenship for children born in the United States if their parents are not American citizens.

FOX News digital politics editor Chris Stirewalt joins us now.

Chris, good to see you. So, Trump was just on O'Reilly saying that, if you have got an illegal mother and father living in LA with two children who are American citizens, do you order authorities to take that family into custody? Trump says, "We have no choice. Yes. We have to bring them out." And if they're wonderful, and a lot of them will be, we'll bring them back in in an expedited fashion. Realistic?

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: No, the wonderful assessment bureau at -- will be --

KELLY: You pass!

STIREWALT: Hard to set up. I will say that. But at this point, where Trump, if you listen to him, where he goes to in this one, when he is getting pinned down. And whether it is O'Reilly or whoever pinning them down and taking them to -- and saying, what are you going to do? He says basically, I'm going on hire great people. I'm going to hire the best people. We're going to work it out. Don't worry about it. I've got this taken care of. And he is banking on the fact that his supporters are so loyal to him, the core of supporters that he has are so loyal to him that it doesn't really matter what he says and it doesn't matter what Jeb Bush says and it doesn't matter what the reporters say, it doesn't matter what anybody says, because they think Trump is going to do it for them when he gets --

KELLY: Well, is that true? I mean, tonight, there is a report from the American Action Forum which is the conservative organization says that, doing that, taking all, deporting all the illegal immigrants, would take 20 years and cost between $420 billion and $620 billion, they also claim would reduce the size of the economy by 5.7 percent.

STIREWALT: But if you believe as some of Donald Trump's supporters do, that the single greatest threat to the American way of life are immigrants from Mexico and Central America. If you really think that that is the number one problem that we have. Not what you were talking to Ben Carson about, not moral decay, not joblessness, not what all these other things or that Hispanic immigrants are the key to that, that's the core of the problem. If you think that's true, you'd say I'll pay any price. I'll bear any burden.

KELLY: Here my last question.

STIREWALT: I'll have a million Elian Gonzalez.

KELLY: There's a new poll out tonight from Gallup that shows that Trump has got a problem with the Hispanic voters. This is his net favorable opinion among Hispanics. So, 65 percent say they view him unfavorably. Fourteen percent say, they view him favorably which gives him a net minus 51 which is the lowest by far in the GOP field.

STIREWALT: Not good.

KELLY: He says, Hispanics love him and they're going to love him because he's going to bring jobs and he says, he knows how to do that. But here's my question for you, as Trump takes these positions that are, you know, farther to the right on this issue --


KELLY: And the other Republicans seem like they're running to go to be with them, what does that do to the Republican field and what happens in the general election? Because we saw a Mitt Romney tries something like this. It didn't work out too over him.

STIREWALT: Right. What happens is, they start creeping and then they start sprinting after the front-runner. They get over. They get those positions, chasing those votes and then they find themselves maroon there and unable to get back. If Jeb Bush can't find a way to get this done, if he can do better. If Marco Rubio can't find a way to get this done and do better and win the nomination, there is a fairly grim boss prospect out there of a wannabe Trump grasping the nomination for the Republicans and then finding himself marooned, even against the weakened Hillary Clinton.

KELLY: The wonderful bureau, is that what she said?

STIREWALT: It's going to be awesome. It's the tremendousness bureau and the wonderful bureau.

KELLY: You pass. We love you. Thank you.


KELLY: He is full of wonder.

Well, there is also news tonight on both Hillary Clinton's email and the explanation she's offered the country. Shannen Coffin is next with a must-see fact check. You know, I was on vacation last week. This is the one segment I want to get back to talk to you about. I have a lot of thoughts that I'm going to share with you on a legal basis on Hillary Clinton.

And then, Josh Duggar admits to being a member of Ashley Madison, a dating service for people who want to cheat on their spouse. We'll look at what it means for Josh and the Duggar family.


KELLY: The main charge we've heard from your critics has been they are hypocrites. They preached family values. Josh once said, we are the epitome of conservative values. And yet they had this secret.



KELLY: So while I was on vacation last week and while I was gone, Hillary Clinton's email story officially appears to have collapsed.  Shannen called me and has done the fact check and it is a doozy. He is a Former Assistant Deputy Attorney General at DOJ and Former Council to Vice President Dick Cheney. All right, Shannen let's go through it because we're going to go get to the most recent claims in a second. But let's just start with this. First she said she opted to do all of her email on her personal email as opposed to on state.gov because it was more convenient. Go.

SHANNEN COFFIN, FMR JUSTICE DEPT. ASSISTANT DEPUTY AG: Well, she said she did it because she wanted to hold one device. We know she had more than one, she had an iPad and a Blackberry that fell apart the next day.

KELLY: Ok. Number two, she said the vast majority of the emails were captured anyway because they went to government employees at their government email addresses, so not to worry that they were not coming from her government address.

COFFIN: The next day the State Department's inspector general said, hey, we're not capturing these things. Only 61,000 out of more than a billion emails in the State Department in 2011 were captured, again gone.

KELLY: She said other Secretaries of State did it just like I did it.

COFFIN: Collin Powell didn't have a server. Condoleezza Rice didn't use email.

KELLY: She said there is no classified -- this is the first explanation, there is no classified material, period, in these emails.

COFFIN: Period. We know that's not true now. Because of inspector generals who have found 4 out of a small sample of 40. But the State Department has also classified now and is looking at over 300 additional emails. And they have tons more to go.

KELLY: Ok. She says the use of personal email was permitted by the State Department. I did nothing wrong ethically or legally.

COFFIN: This is one that they think that if they keep saying it, someone's going to eventually believe it. It is not correct. The State Department allowed occasional use of email. But in order to protect sensitive but unclassified information, said, our general policy is you have to use the State Department server.

KELLY: And she herself said you shouldn't use personal email.

COFFIN: She sent a cable out to the field in 2011 that said stop using your personal emails for official purposes. She didn't send it to herself.

KELLY: Once it became clear that there was classified material contrary to the initial denial, she said there was no classified material that was classified at the time it was sent.

COFFIN: Well, first of all that's generally irrelevant. Some of these laws don't even relate to classified information. You can be found liable for giving up national defense information even if it is not formally classified. That's number one. But secondly, and more importantly, the very nature of this information from the beginning showed that it should have been classified. Again, the inspector general said at least two of these emails were classified top secret from the beginning and should have been treated that way.

KELLY: Which speaks to the final claim she made as well, which is well -- as it turns out you know they were classified at the time they were sent. And then she says it was never marked that way. And your point is she should have known. The reason they don't rely on exclusively the markings, is because it is not a reliable system. Sometimes confidential and classified information shows up in the emails. That's why they don't want you to do it on your personal email. Gmail as it turns out is not as secure as official system. Here's the last thing I want to ask you about.  So after all this comes out, and every claim she has made on this has been reversed and it has been found out untrue and its fact checked by organizations left and right. Not true, not true, not true. They come out on Friday -- her campaign has said they're launching a public education effort because this is a very confusing and complicated topic. And to that you say what?

COFFIN: There was a great Politico story on Friday, an op-ed by one of her supporters that said classified is just hard. Well, it is hard, yes, but there are rules in place that someone like Hillary Clinton should know. And it's not just about the technical question of whether this is classified. Remember she took an entire system offline. An entire email system and privatized it. That in and of itself wasn't allowed. And it led to the very risk of disclosure of important and sensitive national security information.

KELLY: It is as Judge Emmett Sullivan, who as you point out in your piece, a Clinton appointee as he pointed out recently in a court proceeding, that "we wouldn't be here today if Mrs. Clinton had followed government policy." Shannon, great to see you.

COFFIN: Take care, Megyn.

KELLY: It's going to be on national review tomorrow.

Well, there's also new outrage tonight as a decorated green beret fights to keep his job after getting in trouble for defending a rape victim overseas. It turns out he was not as nice to the rapist as apparently he was supposed to be. We'll speak to the Congressman trying to help this soldier.

Plus, three brave Americans take down a gunman on a train, saving an untold number of lives. Now they're being honored by the French government, and one of their proud parents is here live.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gunman would have been successful if my friend Spencer had not gotten up. So I just want that lesson to be learned going forward in time of like terror like that, to please do something. Don't just stand by and watch.



KELLY: Developing tonight, a decorated green beret, sergeant first class Charles Martlyn is fighting to continue serving our country after being told he would be involuntarily discharged from the army. Fox News broke the story of how Martlyn and his team leader got in trouble for striking an Afghan police commander accused of raping a young boy and then beating up that child's mother. Joining me now is Captain Daniel Quinn, he's a former army and teammate of Sergeant Martlyn. He was there at the time. Plus, Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter who is asking Defense Secretary Ash Carter to intervene on Martlyn's behalf, thank you both so much for being here. So this is unbelievable. You tell me, Captain Quinn, you were there at the time. This guy confessed to raping a child? And what did you guys do to him?

FMR CAPTAIN DANIEL QUINN, U.S. ARMY SPECIAL FORCES: That's correct, Megyn. He did confess. Once we heard about the incident, we brought him in. The mother and her son came to our camp. He didn't just rape him, Megyn. He chained the boy to his bed for seven to ten days, raped him repeatedly. When the mother tried to intervene and save her son, the Afghan local police commander struck the mother in the face and beat her severely as well. So when they came to our camp, they both showed obvious signs of abuse and came to us asking for help. They didn't trust that the local Afghan government would do anything to help them and to prevent further occurrences of this -- this was going to be a recurring thing for her son.

KELLY: What a shock. So you get into a scuffle with him. How badly was he hurt?

QUINN: It wasn't a scuffle. We brought him to our camp because we wanted to discuss the severity of this issue. We said here are the allegations against you. He said he agreed to them. And it initially started out just as a verbal argument. Then he started laughing. Once we described how atrocious this was and how disparaging this was, he started laughing in our face and just shrugged his shoulders almost to say it's no big deal. At this point, it got physical. I grabbed him, threw him to the ground. Charles did the same thing a few times. And our intent, this was not an act of revenge or anything like that. This was just -- we need to send a message not only to him but to the other local policemen. Because this was the fourth offense of a sexual assault by our local policemen, and that this was not going to stand with us. And we could no longer just stand by and blame the Afghan government judicial system for not being effective. We have to take matters into our own hands.

KELLY: So you left the army. But this -- he wants to stay. And you tell me Congressman Hunter because the army is saying no. Get out, even though he is a decorated soldier.

DUNCAN HUNTER, HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE MEMBER: Yeah. It's just stupid. This is one of the most disgusting foul things I've heard.  And the fact that they only pushed him down, I would expect any American here to do worse than that frankly. So I think both of these guys showed major restrain in not bloodying him up more. So what we have to do now is we have got to let people know what the military is doing, how the lawyers are running the show, how there's zero -- you have a zero defect mentality now. If do you one thing that's perceived wrong...


KELLY: Over 11 years.

HUNTER:  Eleven years, so he has to stay in. Martlyn's have got to stay in. These are the kind of people we want on the ground fighting for us. These are the kind of guys I want protecting me and my kids. So we're going to fight to keep him in. And hopefully Ash Carter and those in the Defense Department that are not just lawyers and bureaucrats in uniform.  Hopefully they'll look at this and take a second glance at it and change their minds.

KELLY: Captain Quinn, I know you were there. You graduated from West Point in 2003, Infantry Officer, and Platoon Leader in Afghanistan. We thank you for your service, you as well, Congressman Hunter. We're going to stay on this.

HUNTER: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: All the best.

Also tonight, France's big effort honor being given to three American heroes, including two soldiers for their bravery in taking down the heavily armed gunman behind Friday's terrorist attack on a high speed train headed for Paris.


SPENCER STONE, U.S. AIR FORCE: Just hit me on the shoulder and said let's go, and ran down, tackled him, seemed like he just kept pulling more weapons left and right. All three of us started punching him while he was in the middle of us. And I was able to grab him again and choke him unconscious.

ANTHONY SADLER, COLLEGE STUDENT: I saw Spencer get up, I saw Alek get up. Those are my close friends. So I couldn't let them do it alone will.

HUNTER: If he what he was doing or even just got lucky and did the right thing, he would have been able to operate through all eight of those magazines and we would have all been in trouble and probably wouldn't be here today.


KELLY: Wow. Joining me now by phone is Karen Skarlatos, she's the stepmother to the man you just saw on the screen right, Alek who is a National Guardsman, Alek Skarlatos. Karen, thank you so much for being here tonight. What is your reaction seeing this honor given to Alek and his friends and to his bravery we saw on Friday?

KAREN SKARLATOS, ON THE PHONE: Well, as expected I'm incredibly proud of him and the others as well, and incredibly happy that they're safe.

KELLY: Have you spoken with him?

SKARLATOS: Oh, yes, yes. We were able to face time him today, which was nice because it was a private talk with just his dad and I. We face timed him one at a time and then actually spoke on the phone the day of the incident.

KELLY: Let me guess. He doesn't feel like a hero, does he?


KELLY: They never do especially military guys who are trained to do it. He was off duty. He is certainly not in uniform, he's not there in his official role and yet sprung to action instantly. You must be very proud.

SKARLATOS: Well, I am very proud and I'm not at all surprised.  That's -- it was always -- Alek would be the one. If I was to choose in a room full of people who would stand up and do that, it would be Alek.

KELLY: They talked about how on that train he got up, he started patrolling, he started to make sure there was nobody else on the train.  Even after they had this gunman subdued. Did he talk to you at all about whether he felt any fear, any moment's hesitation?

SKARLATOS: No hesitation. I think they were so -- acting on instinct that they didn't have time to be fearful until it was all over. And he just did what he knew he had to do. And otherwise, you're going to die.  So he did what he felt like he needed to do at the moment and communicated that to Spencer that hey, we need to go, go, go, just like the clip said.  And they did.

KELLY: Karen, he and the others make us all proud to be Americans.  And sometimes, even though this started off as very dark moment, you need just a showing from guys like this of what it means to be an American.  Thank you for coming on and helping us get to know him a little better tonight.

SKARLATOS: Absolutely. He's a wonderful guy and he was a hero to us before this incident ever happened.

KELLY: All the best to your entire family.

SKARLATOS: Thank you so much.

KELLY: Joining us for a bit more, CEO of Concerned Veteran's America, Pete Hegseth. He is a veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, Pete, unbelievable.

PETE HEGSETH, CONCERNED VETERANS FOR AMERICA CEO: Unbelievable. He makes all of us proud. Think about if you were on a train, an Islamist with an A.K. coming at you, most people freeze, most people stop. He is on vacation, he's not on duty. He just taps his buddy and he says let's go.  It's like Todd Beamer saving flight 93. This is the American ethos -- surrounded by probably Frenchmen in skinny jeans on their way to downtown Paris. Here go the Americans to save the day. It doesn't surprise me at all. It just reminds me how special these guys are that sign up...


KELLY: Now in defense of the French, one man did help and is also being honored. One Frenchman did help. Of course there was a report in the New York Times that the crew on board that train had run to hide while the Americans took care of the situation. They had no guns. They didn't have their weapons. And yet they didn't hesitate for a moment. He had not only a knife but an A.K.47.

HEGSETH: They just charged. They act with greenness, they acted unilaterally without asking permission, without seeking consensus. This Islamist did not want a job, he wanted to kill a lot of people. And these guys had a split second moment to decide what to do, that's what's so incredible about this, it's why I love this story. They never hesitated.  Like the generation of guys I served with Iraq and Afghanistan, he had just come back from Afghanistan. What is so telling about the character of America and those that serve us, I am proud of him and his mother should be as well. God bless him.

KELLY: Thank you so much, Pete, great to see you tonight.

HEGSETH: Thank you.

KELLY: Also coming up tonight, Josh Duggar admits to being a member of Ashley Madison, a dating service for people who cheat on their spouse.  I thought the Duggar's said the family troubles were over. We'll take a look at what it means and his family right after this break.



KELLY: This is it, right? It's not like another big Duggar family secret that is going to come out.



KELLY: Well, not exactly. In June, Josh Duggar's sisters told me not to expect any other scandals coming out of their family. But then last week Josh Duggar was forced to give another mea culpa. This time for creating an account with Ashley Madison, the dating website that helps married people cheat on their spouses, welcome to life in 2015. Joining us now Dr. Robert Jeffress, he's the Senior Pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas and a Fox News contributor. So first he comes out and basically admits to a pornography addiction and to being unfaithful to his wife.  Then he takes away the part about the porn addiction. Then he puts it back in there. Then he -- I can't follow the story, Doctor. But -- I asked the Duggars about hypocrisy when I went down there to talk about what he had done when he was 15.


KELLY: Here we go again, right?

JEFFRESS: Absolutely, Megyn. For Josh Duggar to be out speaking against gay marriage while at the very same time he was committing immorality outside of his own marriage, that is the height of hypocrisy, which Duggar has now conceded. And look, Megyn, instead of gloating about Josh's downfall, I want to encourage people to use his downfall as a cautionary tale about immorality and about hypocrisy. I mean immorality leads to no place good. We just saw today a San Antonio police captain who took his life because his name was on the Ashley Madison list. That's the end result of immorality. And as far as hypocrisy Megyn, this needs to be a wake-up call for people like myself who are conservative Christians.  Sometimes we get the idea that just because we believe the right things or say the right things that we don't have to play by the same rules as everybody else. The truth is god holds us not just to the same standard, he holds us to a higher standard and hypocrisy is always exposed.

JEFFRESS: Let me ask you this. You are not a perfect man. I don't know specifically but I'm assuming. Isn't there always risk in preaching morality or judging a "lifestyle" when you yourself live in a glass house?  His house is like the thin light bulb -- the thinnest glass possible, and yet he was still casting the stones.

JEFFRESS: Yeah. Well, and again, I think there is a real danger.  First of all, when we talk about the value of life and marriage, we're not preaching our own values. We're preaching what we believe the bible says.  But I think even when we do that, Megyn, it needs to be with humility. I am the first to say I am the biggest sinner of all, and I need Christ's forgiveness just like everyone does. So if we're going to address god's issues, I think we need to do so with humility. A pastor might preach on thou shall not steal, but at the same time be pilfering from the offering plate, that's hypocrisy but what he's saying is still true.

KELLY: It's tough to take him that seriously though however. In Josh Duggar's career as a family values spokesman I think we can say is officially over, Dr. Jeffress, great to see you.

JEFFRESS: I think it is. Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: We'll be right back.


KELLY: Tomorrow night we have got Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, Marc Thiessen, and Howie Kurtz. Set your DVR's for that one. Also, we'd love to get your thoughts on the Green Beret getting booted from the Army for hitting the confessed child rapist, really? Go to facebook.com/kellyfile and follow me on twitter @Megynkelly. Let me know what you think. Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. This is "The Kelly File."

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