Donald Trump pushes back at pope's criticism of capitalism

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 20, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Brian Kilmeade and she was little Mindy on Mork and Mindy, Melissa Francis -- "The Five."

In a CNN interview, Donald Trump was asked what he would say to the pope if he were to meet him next month. Roll it, Sven.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN'S NEW DAY SHOW CO-HOST: The pope believes that capitalism can be a real avenue to greed, it can be really toxic and corrupt and he's shaking his finger at you when he said it. What do you say in response to the Pope?

DONALD TRUMP, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd say ISIS wants to get you. You know that ISIS wants to go in and take over the Vatican? You have heard that. You know that's a dream of theirs to go into Italy. And you look at what's going on, they better hope that capitalism works because it's the only thing we have right now. And it's a great thing when it works properly.


GUTFELD: Well done.

Now, I think it's great for Donald to meet the pope. Here you have together an outspoken leader of a major religion and the pope.


GUTFELD: But Donald is right, especially since the pope has bashed capitalism which has lifted millions out of misery, and he's also said that Charlie Hebdo victims should have known better. That's not good. As for ISIS, they do want to kill the pope, but they want to kill everyone, including themselves. Heaven awaits such tools.

But Trump should take his own advice too and put all focus on those who wish to destroy us. Just for fun, let's ponder these headlines from the past: "Clinton sees crisis from global warming"; "It's time to fix America's broken immigration system." Both of those headlines were from September 10th, 2001 -- the day before 9/11. There were no headlines on Islamic terror, but lots on immigration and global warming. So while those concerns matter, it's the stuff we never see coming that gets us.

We're facing a new age of terror. Today's technology, married to today's hate. When ghouls master new methods of mayhem, today's barbarism will seem like the good old days.

So if you're ever going to be a single-issue voter, that's your issue. Our next president must put aside platitudes and come to grips with a new threat that's almost too horrid to contemplate. A store-bought drone with aerosol spores offers 10 9/11s at a fraction of the cost. If that doesn't get the pope's or Donald's and America's attention, then nothing will.

What a great meeting, K.G., if the Pope and Donald got together. What do you -- how do you think that would go?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I would like to get an invite.


GUILFOYLE: I would for sure RSVP immediately. I think it would definitely be a surprise, probably for both. You know depending upon how that went. But when you see his comments right the way off the (inaudible), the first thing he thinks about with the Pope is hey, the -- hey Pope, ISIS is after you.


GUILFOYLE: Not exactly what you think your opening line would be, right?


GUILFOYLE: He wants to get right to the point and say look there's this threat of global terrorism, and then he also wants to then sell capitalism to the Pope. I'm all in on him bringing up those two ideas, put it that way.

GUTFELD: Yes. Juan, what did you make of that? It's true, I mean, that -- those are bigger concerns than the Pope's, I think.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: What do you mean?

GUTFELD: Well, terror, ISIS? It's a little more -- scary or scarier than air conditioning.

WILLIAMS: Why not.

GUTFELD: Which the Pope seems to hate.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Wait a second. The Pope is an Argentinean. He's talking about people who live on farms where they're being exploited by capitalists?

GUTFELD: Not just that, Juan.

WILLIAMS: He's talking about.

GUTFELD: Don't play that game with me.

WILLIAMS: I ain't playing that game.

GUTFELD: You are.

WILLIAMS: Remember, the dung of the devil, you yourself said.


WILLIAMS: That there is such a thing as the Pope.

GUILFOYLE: Are we in medieval times?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Remember, that's what --


WILLIAMS: That's what Donald said.


WILLIAMS: Yeah. And last time, you were talking about how the Pope said, you know, you got to watch out for people who exploit folks.

GUTFELD: That's what he sees as capitalism. He's a communist.


WILLIAMS: A communist.

GUTFELD: He is a communist.


GUTFELD: Let's admit it, people.

KILMEADE: OK, first off.


KILMEADE: Donald Trump is brilliant and finding -- hi, thanks for welcoming me, Greg.


KILMEADE: For Eric, hope he feels better, but real quick. Essentially, Donald Trump is brilliant at finding somebody's weakness.


KILMEADE: So he says, OK. The pope really has a problem with capitalism. Who's protecting you? And by the way, who's the superpower that's got your back? We are. That was drill down on capitalism. Do you have a better idea, Mr. Pope? If you want to be in that show of respect Mr. Pope, if you want to be protected, if you have a better way, if you want to further perfect capitalism, that's fine. To show kindness with the kindest most charitable nation in the world, to tell us not to alter money and profit, when we go ahead and pursue money and profit, we create jobs and opportunity.

GUTFELD: That is so true, Melissa. Go ahead, call us greedy.

MELISSA FRANCIS, GUEST CO-HOST: We cannot possibly fight about this again. What I love about this is like every answer with Donald Trump, he starts answering and you go, he's crazy. And then he talks for a little while longer and you're like wait a second. There's sense in there. He was saying why the heck are we talking about capitalism when ISIS is coming to kill us? We need to focus on other things. So he was shifting the focus. I also like how he said, "I have great respect for the pope. I like him. I actually like him." That's like the kiss of death from Trump.



FRANCIS: It's like how is right afterwards and it's like, but you're an idiot.

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah, yeah, those when he says he likes you.


GUTFELD: I want to run this. This is Donald Trump talking about where he gets his military views from, since he's talking about ISIS.


CHUCK TODD, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Who do you talk to for military advice right now?

TRUMP: Well, I watch the shows. I mean, I really see a lot of great -- you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows and you have the generals and you have certain people that you like.

TODD: But is there somebody who is a go to for you? You know.

TRUMP: Probably there are two or three.

TODD: Every presidential candidate has a go to.

TRUMP: Probably there are two or three. I mean, I like Bolton, I think he's, you know, tough cookie, knows what he's talking about. Jacobs is a good guy.

TODD: You mean, Ambassador Bolton?


TODD: And Colonel Jacobs?

TRUMP: I did -- Colonel Jacobs is a good guy and I see him on occasion.


GUTFELD: So Kimberly, we're talking about some serious topics. Should we trust a man who gets his information from the Sunday shows, even though he mentions Bolton, which is a --if he put Bolton.


GUTFELD: In his administration that would be great.

GUILFOYLE: Well, yeah. That's both amazing.

KILMEADE: He was the king of Red Eye, wasn't he?

GUTFELD: He was the king of Red Eye.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, he was. He was.

GUTFELD: For a long time until I.

GUILFOYLE: That doesn't bother me. I'd rather you be exposed to a variety of different mediums then get your information from newspapers, from watching great interviews. You can learn a lot.

GUTFELD: But didn't he make fun of President Obama for saying.

GUILFOYLE: For what?

GUTFELD: These things?

KILMEADE: Oh, absolutely.

GUTFELD: Like he would say, I found out about it on TV and we mercilessly mocked him.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, I don't have a problem with it, but you can over there.


GUILFOYLE: It's fine if he listens to Ambassador Bolton or General Jack Keane is another person.

WILLIAMS: I thought you would bring up Jack because he's your favorite.

GUILFOYLE: You know I love him.


WILLIAMS: I know you do, so I appreciate that. But I was going to say that he says his favorite website is Drudge. He says he gets everything from Drudge, thinks Drudge is a genius because he's well informed after reading Drudge. And now he's telling us he watches the shows and to see if he can get all the information.

GUILFOYLE: He also said that he reads all the newspapers as well.

WILLIAMS: Well, I somehow don't think that he really meant that.


KILMEADE: Its Trump's his weakest moment. Let's be honest, we watch all the interviews, he's compelling his great television. It's his weakest moment, but he also admitted in a speech yesterday he had except (ph) and said, I'm going to be a bit of a sleeper on the military. People are going to be surprised how good I am on it. What he does is he finds expert scenarios.


KILMEADE: He's not going to be there calling the shots and saying, put the cannons here and the ICB missiles here. He's going to be getting the best people involved in doing the things and executing the plan. Like George bush had a way of saying, the generals, you've been in military your entire life. Why am I calling the shots? Tell me your plans, sell me on this plans.

GUILFOYLE: But that does not make sense?

KILMEADE: That they did in front of me. Yes.

GUILFOYLE: It's like best practices. You look and see what works, you going to have people that have the expertise.

KILMEADE: But that would have been a better answer. My answer would have been a better answer.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, I think your answer is not.

FRANCIS: But all you have to do.

KILMEADE: My answer is better than his answer.


GUILFOYLE: But do you think that he's ill-prepared or ill-equipped?

WILLIAMS: Of course. Do you think he has any experience, Kimberly?


GUILFOYLE: It was for Brian Kilmeade.


GUILFOYLE: Who made the criticism?

KILMEADE: What I'm saying is it's OK to have a resource, of course. No one thinks that Donald Trump is buying buildings and has military expert.

WILLIAMS: No. I hope not.

KILMEADE: His answer would probably be, you know, I'm going to refer to Colin Powell. I'm going to find the best military advisers that I can hold up. And therefore, I wouldn't have a policy.

GUTFELD: It will be Omarosa.

KILMEADE: All right, Omarosa who was the villain in almost every single episode, even in celebrity. She even mean in celebrity apprentice.


FRANCIS: But that's what deal guys do. I mean, that's what business guys do.


FRANCIS: You don't only buy companies that you know exactly how to run that company as the CEO. You're only one person. I mean you buy a company and then you identify who's the best in that space. You put him in there to run that business. So he's not expected to know how to do every single thing. He is expected to know how to find the best people to give him the best advice in the areas that he doesn't know.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, but you expected to have.

FRANCIS: I think he could do that.

WILLIAMS: Some foreign policy expertise. I mean, that's where the president.

GUTFELD: Like President Obama?

WILLIAMS: Makes a difference.

GUTFELD: When he's a community organizer?

WILLIAMS: No, but the president was in the Senate and dealing with some of these issues.

GUTFELD: For 144 days?

WILLIAMS: Let me just say that you know Mike Hayden, the former CIA Director. Yesterday, we were talking about Michael Hayden, he's experience. And Mike even said this is ridiculous. How can you say you're watching TV? I mean, this is like Uncle Jack screaming at the TV, "Oh, my God, I can't stand these people." And he's now running the country?


WILLIAMS: We trust that guy with the bomb?

KILMEADE: Well I mean it's just one bad answer.


KILMEADE: He gave a bad answer.

GUTFELD: He's a -- we have a collection SOTs of him also discussing.

KILMEADE: What are SOTs?

GUTFELD: Sound On Tape.


GUTFELD: Crazy, little man.


GUTFELD: That's like he's just woke up today. All right, run it please?


TRUMP: We have to stop ISIS. I didn't want to do Iraq. It was a big mistake. It should never have happened. The way we got out was also a big mistake. We cannot let ISIS continue to do what they're doing.

I believe more strongly in the military and military strength than anybody running by a factor of a million.


TRUMP: I will tell you, and I told them, we are going to make our military so strong and so powerful and so incredible we're going to take care of our vets by the way as part of it, bigly.



GUTFELD: So Brian, there's a new poll that says 32 percent trust him most to handle ISIS, which nobody else came close. My issue is we're not talking about military intelligence anymore. We're not talking about these other threats that.

KILMEADE: Willingness. We're talking about willingness.


KILMEADE: Willingness to have an objective and to implement that objective. You get David Petraeus. You don't wing it because you've been in big business. Carly Fiorina had a very similar mantra. I -- on the international front, I deal with a lot of world leaders. I got them in my cell phone. So that's who Donald Trump has. He knows Vladimir Putin. He travels to Scotland and deals with the -- not only the golf course, but with the leadership there because he's got to cut the best tax deal possible.


GUTFELD: I like how you say he knows Putin. He knows Putin.

KILMEADE: I name dropping for somebody else.


GUTFELD: But this is the big promise like.

KILMEADE: Right. But he does know him. I mean, how many guys out there can say I can call Vladimir Putin. He likes to see me.

GUTFELD: Yes. I don't know. It seems like a lot of people have to explain what Donald Trump says because what Donald Trump says is what you want to hear, but he doesn't articulate it.

FRANCIS: He's like a Rorschach painting.


FRANCIS: When you look into it and you see exactly what you want to hear.

GUTFELD: Brian just.

FRANCIS: It's working for him.

GUTFELD: Saw what he wanted to see.


FRANCIS: Its worry -- I mean, but the flipside of that Juan, you go back to your point to me, talking him not having foreign policy experience, do you like Hillary Clinton's experience on Benghazi more? I mean she has a track record that people don't like.

WILLIAMS: No, that's not true.

FRANCIS: Really?

WILLIAMS: I don't think so. I mean from my perspective, you can say, oh, I don't like the outcome with Benghazi, but this woman's been around the world.

FRANCIS: I don't like how she dealt with.

WILLIAMS: And dealt with world leaders. And has not only that, she remember she was in the White House, she was at the Senate.

KILMEADE: But dealt successfully, Juan?

WILLIAMS: I don't.

KILMEADE: Dealt successfully?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think she had -- I know you don't, but I'm telling you I think she does. Now I will say this for Mr. Trump, he promises that he's going to get his wife out. And I'm thinking maybe she will make sense.

KILMEADE: Well, actually, in all seriousness? His greatest asset is his family. If you talk to Eric, you talk to Don Jr., you talk to Ivanka, if -- you cannot be a part-time somewhat interested parent who's an egomaniac as he's been labeled and produce these children who are fine upstanding people who look up and worship their dad.

GUILFOYLE: And nobody disagrees with that.


GUILFOYLE: You know.

KILMEADE: And he said.


GUTFELD: He left out a couple other wives who are equal rights (ph).

KILMEADE: He left out Tiffany.


KILMEADE: Who I don't really know.

GUTFELD: By the way, just before we go. This is to you, Kimberly. He's the master of leverage. He wondered if he should go to CNN and tell them he's not going to debate -- be part of the debate unless, CNN gives $10 million to a charity. So he's basically blackmailing.

FRANCIS: Extorting them.

GUTFELD: Extorting CNN. You got -- it's funny.

GUILFOYLE: What a great businessman.


GUTFELD: What if he did that to us, to Fox?

GUILFOYLE: And such transparency.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, God knows we would pay.

WILLIAMS: He'll never do it here.

KILMEADE: Is that what he'd do with the immigration plan?


KILMEADE: He's shooting for the moon. It's going to cost $160 billion. He's going to end up with half that and said I got success. I moved the goal post back and I ended up on a hundred -- with 100 yard field.

GUTFELD: He's going to build a wall and have CNN pay for it.


GUILFOYLE: Anything is possible.


GUTFELD: All right.

KILMEADE: I find you look at Kimberly a lot, you have never welcomed Melissa. I think you should welcome.

GUTFELD: I welcomed in the intro, remember?

KILMEADE: All right.

WILLIAMS: No. He's upset because you only welcome him.


GUTFELD: He's (inaudible) my performance.


KILMEADE: I'm just saying.

GUILFOYLE: A man likes what he likes.


GUILFOYLE: Leave it there.


KILMEADE: OK, who can blame him?

GUTFELD: I'm moving on from this travesty.

Coming up, Donald and Jeb traded attacks at town halls in New Hampshire. What they're saying about each other, ahead.


GUILFOYLE: Well, if you want to win the White House, you're going to need to win at least two of the biggest swing states, Florida, Ohio or Pennsylvania. Hillary Clinton's certainly got her work cut out for her. With more than 60 percent of voters in each of those states don't trust her. According to a new poll by Quinnipiac, voters are tiring of her excuses about her e-mail server, excuses like this one that hasn't aged well.


HILLARY CLINTON, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The system we used was set up for President Clinton's office. And it had numerous safeguards, it was on property guarded by the secret service and there were no security breaches.


GUILFOYLE: All right, Melissa Francis, woman to woman from another woman?

FRANCIS: Can we trust any politicians? I don't know about the trustworthiness question. Also on the polls, do we trust the polls? I mean, who -- when's the last time you answered your phone as part of a poll? I did it once. It was Quinnipiac. I told them I was a disillusioned democrat who left the party because I don't believe it global warming. I had so much fun with them. None of that is true of course. But who even answer.


FRANCIS: I know. I admitted on television and now they know.

GUILFOYLE: (inaudible).

FRANCIS: No. I mean, I just -- they got me on the phone, I was annoyed so then I just answered in a crazy way to everything. I mean, I don't know. I have a hard time with the polls. And I don't know that we believe.

GUILFOYLE: But isn't there a good reason to distrust.

FRANCIS: There is a reason.

GUILFOYLE: What we hearing so far?

FRANCIS: I don't -- I'm not sure that qualifies you to not be a politician. I don't think your brand as a politician is truthfulness. Probably, as a journalist it's important to your brand. It's unfortunate, but I don't know that it kills you.

GUTFELD: Hard time with the polls?



GUTFELD: Xenophobic. (inaudible) was a great man.


GUTFELD: No, it is, it is.

GUILFOYLE: That poll.

FRANCIS: Give me a second.


GUILFOYLE: That poll. Yeah.

GUTFELD: She is so weird that she's actually seen as less trustworthy than Bill Clinton. I mean, that's amazing to me.

GUILFOYLE: That is something.

GUTFELD: It's easy -- she needs to hire a crisis management firm to deal with the current crisis management firm that is dropping the ball here. She's offering no coherent explanations for what's happening. She seems entirely cavalier about this whole idea. And this is during an environment when -- I mean our contemporary world and the threats involved, we need to know -- we need to have somebody who understands security and who understands why our secrets are important. You don't hire a bodyguard who leaves his gun in a bathroom in Arby's. And this is what is we're dealing with. This is somebody who's just not paying attention.

KILMEADE: Right. I've never been to Arby's. I'm using the drive-thru. I always opt to drive-thru, so I wouldn't have that incident. But I want to build that.


KILMEADE: Melissa, here's -- I'm sorry.

GUILFOYLE: You want to build on that?

KILMEADE: Do you want me go back.

GUILFOYLE: I want to welcome you to the show.

KILMEADE: Thank you very much.

GUILFOYLE: Encourage and invite your participation.

KILMEADE: Can I -- thank you. Can I engage?


KILMEADE: Thank you very much. Melissa, I do believe these polls. You know what, because she was so high when she left the secretary of state. She had something like 70 percent approval rating. And less, before this whole thing popped up.


KILMEADE: Her trustworthiness was about 15 points higher. It's how she's acted since and a further examination of her record which is reflected in these polls.

FRANCIS: Let me confuse you with some math here my friend.


FRANCIS: If you look at the most recent CNN poll, it says that 52 percent of the people that they called are planning to vote in the GOP primary.

KILMEADE: But do you think.

FRANCIS: Only 10 percent voted last time. So how could 52 percent if they extrapolate it out from their sample, they are saying 52 percent of people are going to vote in the primary. Only -- I mean, their numbers just don't add up in general.

KILMEADE: Right. But do you think that what she has done so far has reflected trustworthiness?


KILMEADE: How she's acted during this crisis.

FRANCIS: No, no, no.


KILMEADE: Come out today.


KILMEADE: To define what she meant the day before with Ed Henry.

GUILFOYLE: And some were angry because they were on vacation.

KILMEADE: Yeah, absolutely.


KILMEADE: James Carville.


KILMEADE: He called himself cavelle (ph).


KILMEADE: He mispronounced his own name.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, Greg called him a vampire.

GUTFELD: No, I didn't.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God.

WILLIAMS: Didn't you say he came out of the grave?

GUTFELD: That's not -- that's a zombie.

WILLIAMS: Oh, zombie, zombie, that's right.


WILLIAMS: I don't know all the time.

GUILFOYLE: You guys go back and.

WILLIAMS: But I must say you know who else has a high lack of trust in their honesty?


WILLIAMS: The guy who's leading the republican race, Donald Trump.

FRANCIS: Nobody cares about honesty.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. So what you get is a situation where even if people say, hey you know what, we think she's kind of like a trickster, and I said she's probably just entitled and all that.

GUILFOYLE: And you said, people in (inaudible).

WILLIAMS: But say hey, guess what, we like her as a politician. We think she knows how to play hardball.

KILMEADE: But I think upon further review, they say what the post plan in Libya? What was the reset in Russia?

WILLIAMS: Oh, you got to move on.

KILMEADE: What happened when Mubarak? And we will see anticipation to the Arab spring.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

KILMEADE: This is just off the top of my head.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

KILMEADE: And got again, instead of doing the math problem I was.

WILLIAMS: That's like Donald Trump saying he opposed the war in Iraq you know. So I mean, look, you can say that about, that's a problem.

KILMEADE: That is (inaudible). A businessman opposed the war in Iraq as opposed to secretary of state whose job it was implement our policy?

WILLIAMS: What I'm saying is.


GUILFOYLE: And Donald's upset because he wanted the oil.

WILLIAMS: Donald wants the oil now, doesn't he?

GUILFOYLE: Why? But I mean.

WILLIAMS: I love it.

GUILFOYLE: I think we should have gotten something for it, too.

WILLIAMS: You know what Donald said? This was so intriguing to me.


WILLIAMS: He said we'll go back into the Middle East and fight your wars, but you'll pay us to have our people fight the war.

KILMEADE: Like the first Persian Gulf War. Japan wrote the check.


KILMEADE: It's our allies broke the check and we basically broke even on it.

WILLIAMS: You know what, this quid pro quo for our military and the use of our lives.

KILMEADE: Becomes president.

WILLIAMS: I don't like it.

GUTFELD: Back to Hillary, she set up a private e-mail system for government work.


GUTFELD: That is wrong.

WILLIAMS: Of course.

GUTFELD: That is wrong.

KILMEADE: Having the judge said that.

GUTFELD: Yeah. If you just focus on that, she shouldn't be in the race. She should go away now.

FRANCIS: What about the poor company that they -- did the backup work on that? I mean, Platte River, they're getting absolutely hammered.

KILMEADE: Death threats.

GUTFELD: (inaudible) and that's the other thing that bugs me. What is this new death threat craze? Why are people like oh, my God, I'm mad at these people. I hope you die? When did this start?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. It's really out of control.


GUILFOYLE: Mom and pop operation.

KILMEADE: I would (inaudible) that.



KILMEADE: I will no longer off for death threats.

GUTFELD: Against death threat.

KILMEADE: I am against death threats. And I'm willing to take a stand and let the slings and arrows fly.

GUILFOYLE: Against that and (inaudible). Go ahead.

GUTFELD: Excellent.

WILLIAMS: Really? So I'm forgiven?

KILMEADE: Yes. You're forgiven, absolutely.

WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you, brother.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, I think you're having a better day today a little bit.

KILMEADE: No, I just.

WILLIAMS: What is wrong? Why do you think I had a bad day?


KILMEADE: Well, the line that will show you, it was Black Lives matter.

WILLIAMS: I hope so, but she thought I had a bad day?

GUILFOYLE: No. You're just being cheerful today and we're so happy to have you here.

WILLIAMS: Oh you're so -- wait, you're welcoming me, but Kilmeade didn't get welcomed.

GUILFOYLE: No, I did welcome him and I encouraged him to participate, as I encourage you to participate at home, stay with the show because so much more ahead.

Donald and Jeb took some pretty strong swipes at another on the campaign trail, just 20 miles apart today. And we're going to show you exactly what happened.


KILMEADE: Because you're competing for the same job. I'm on my answering lyrics. The tension was so high in New Hampshire. We could not even cut it with a knife.

GUTFELD: You tried?

KILMEADE: You tried.


KILMEADE: Two GOP presidential candidates holding simultaneous town halls 20 miles apart. Donald Trump was in Derry and Jeb Bush was in Merrimack. Here's what happened.


JEB BUSH, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump doesn't have a proven conservative record. He was a democrat longer in the last decade than he was a republican. He's given more money to democrats than he's given to republicans.

TRUMP: You know what's happening to Jeb's crowd as you know right down the street? They're sleeping! They're sleeping now.

Jeb Bush is a low energy person. For him to get things done is hard. He's very low energy. Between Common Core, his active love on immigration, and skin in the game with Iraq, that's the third one that we've now added. I don't see how he's electable.


KILMEADE: Wow, some strong words, Juan. And it's a clear change in tactics. And it was a tweet today Jeb Bush is not ignoring Donald Trump. He's not or dismissing Donald trump. He he's now taking him on, is that an effective strategy?

WILLIAMS: With a big change. Let me say that what's stand out, Brian is that he thought for the longest time, this was going to go away. It ain't gone away. I mean in fact, Donald Trump has solidified that lead.


WILLIAMS: And so now he decides the way to do it is to go directly at him, but I just got to say, you know, forget serious analysis. Wasn't that great?



WILLIAMS: No, no. I've got a big crowd. I've got, you know, 2500 people. And he's got like 100 people over there and they're falling asleep.


WILLIAMS: I mean is that school yard.

KILMEADE: It's personal, It's correct, yeah.

WILLIAMS: And that's school yard? Come on, that's too much.

GUILFOYLE: I'm confused. You liked it or you didn't like it?


WILLIAMS: I think it's entertaining. Exactly, it's funny. It's hilarious. Can you imagine this is a serious candidate?

GUILFOYLE: No. The low energy thing, that OK, I'm taking b-12 shots.

KILMEADE: But Kimberly, I know that.


KILMEADE: Melissa is one who loves the math, but I'm going to ask you this.


GUILFOYLE: You got to explain (ph).

KILMEADE: We've seen the other candidates.


KILMEADE: Every time they take Donald Trump on, they get hurt in the polls.


GUILFOYLE: Well because he's actually very quick with the witty rejoinder, so you have to be (inaudible) like, you know do barbs and take him on he's going to come after you. He's, you know, a big aficionado of the leg sweep. He's going to leg sweep you and probably in front of crowd and people. So if want to get involved and do that, that's fine. I think it's good.


GUILFOYLE: That Jeb is trying to take him on because he can't just ignore it forever.

KILMEADE: Even though it destroyed Rand and hurt Perry? Do you think it's a different story. Today, he just tweeted out, and some of his staffers pointed out, Jeb Bush, "I'm calling it like I see it. Donald Trump is a tax-hiking Democrat."

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, it is a great contrast, Trump...

GUILFOYLE: Good line.

GUTFELD: ... and Jeb. You've got a proud, vocal right-o. And you have Jeb.

But it is -- it is like -- when you look at them together, it is like comparing a monster truck rally to Trump and kind of shuffle board on the lido deck with Jeb. I mean, Trump is a showman; Jeb is a snowman. He's stiff and he's frozen when you compare it to kind of the lively banter of Trump. And Trump is a showman. He commands attention, and people enjoy it.

But I want to say this, and I'm so tired of this.

GUILFOYLE: You can have fun on the lido deck.

GUTFELD: You can. I've been there many times.

It raises a false argument, that if you criticize Trump, then you must be for Jeb. People forget that there are 15 other candidates out there. So it is not really a -- Trump-Jeb face-off.

WILLIAMS: Just on that point, you know that the polls show right now, Kasich...

GUTFELD: That's what I was going to...

WILLIAMS: ... has caught up with Bush in New Hampshire.

KILMEADE: One point off. One point off.

WILLIAMS: That's unbelievable!

FRANCIS: You know, I feel sorry for Jeb Bush in all this, because the biggest knock on Jeb Bush is obviously that he's boring. And guess who's not boring? Donald Trump.

And trying to get the attention back to him, I'll take you one further. As a mom, it's like trying to get your kids to eat broccoli after they've just pounded 47 Slurpees. It's hopeless. I mean, you can't turn them back. The broccoli was already really tough to stomach. And now you're just littered with sugar and entertained and fantastic.

KILMEADE: Greg is offended by your comparisons. He has gotten the copyright on comparisons.

FRANCIS: I think so.

GUILFOYLE: I love broccoli.


GUTFELD: High fiver.

GUILFOYLE: Try dipping it in a little soy sauce.

KILMEADE: Let me ask you something. Jeb Bush has the long game. You heard what 43 said. His brother said he's the tortoise.

GUILFOYLE: The tortoise. Well, Dana said that.

KILMEADE: This week he's got -- built his foundation.

GUTFELD: Tortoise to Donald Trump's hare.


KILMEADE: He's set up a big event. Town halls, policy statements, retail -- retail interviews. He's going to go to retail shops. And local interviews. He's got a plan. Donald Trump seems to be winging it and seems to be more effective so far.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So what's your point?

KILMEADE: The point is it's a strategy difference.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, there's a strategy difference. But you also have to go with your best level of play and what you're comfortable in, because you're probably going to excel in that regard.

Right now this is actually working for Trump, and he's not letting people micromanage him and tell him he's got to do it the old-fashioned way.

KILMEADE: What am I doing now? The control room's talking to me. And I'm going to go to a SOT. This is this morning...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Something was happening.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, what a mistake that was.

KILMEADE: Come in, please. We're going to go to Maria Bartiromo's interview with Donald Trump when she [SIC] was asked, flat-out, "Are you a conservative?"


MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS: Donald, are you a conservative?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): I am. And you know, interestingly, Ronald Reagan was a Democrat. I was a Democrat also. And Ronald Reagan was a Democrat, and he became not a very conservative person. Over the last number of years when I started getting very political, I started seeing more and more that that is my -- that is my leaning.

BARTIROMO: Are you a moderate conservative? Would you say that you're a liberal on social issues and conservative on fiscal issues? Is that a fair statement?

TRUMP: Certainly, I'm very conservative on fiscal issues. I would say on social I'm, you know, I'm on the conservative side.


KILMEADE: And then a lot of people say, "Well, but you want to spend $160 billion on your immigration plan. So is that being fiscally responsible?"

WILLIAMS: So let me ask you. OK, do you buy the Reagan analogy?

KILMEADE: Well, Reagan was a Democrat. Reagan did flip. You're allowed to do that.

GUTFELD: But there was 25 years of strong Republicanism before he was president.

WILLIAMS: Yes. And don't forget he was governor of California. He was involved in politics. A big supporter of Barry Goldwater. I mean, there's a lot more to Ronald Reagan.

Well, I'll leave it to you, Brian. I just don't see that the analogy holds.

KILMEADE: That, by the way, is the first one anyone's ever said that to me. So it's a special moment: "I'll leave it to you, Brian."

If there's one person -- let's go around the table. If there's one person not named Kasich, Bush and Trump that we should keep our eye on, who do you think it will be, Greg?

GUTFELD: I still would say Rubio.


FRANCIS: Fiorina.

KILMEADE: Fiorina.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I think it's Rubio.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, Rubio, Walker, I think still have something to show. Kasich is coming up. I know you're sympathetic (ph).

KILMEADE: Governor Christie. He's working hard. He's doing the blue- collar thing through New Hampshire. He knows it's do or die in New Hampshire.

GUILFOYLE: He is working very hard.

KILMEADE: Watch him move up (ph).

WILLIAMS: You're saying that if Trump...

KILMEADE: I'm saying we're looking at these three too much. I'm just saying that, if you look to some part of the other 15 that matter, in my humble opinion...

WILLIAMS: And what about -- and what about Cruz? Because Cruz thinks that once Trump falters, he could benefit.

KILMEADE: Right. But I only had to pick one, and I just picked one.

WILLIAMS: Well, Christie's fine. I like Christie...

GUILFOYLE: I don't think Rubio has peaked. He's very, very good.

WILLIAMS: I like Christie a lot. But I just -- I wonder if Ted Cruz wouldn't get the same bounce.

GUTFELD: You know what's funny? Cruz is drafting Trump. Isn't that like the bike -- cyclist term where you get behind someone?

KILMEADE: Absolutely.

GUTFELD: That's what he's doing with Trump.

KILMEADE: And Christie could never do that, because they're too similar.

GUTFELD: Yes, right. And too big.

FRANCIS: No, no, no, no, no, no.

KILMEADE: He's lost 100 pounds.

GUTFELD: You can't draft behind a skinny person.

KILMEADE: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.

KILMEADE: We have so much show left. And...

GUILFOYLE: Personal attacks.

GUTFELD: Personal attacks. Look at me. I'm fat!

KILMEADE: You are not.

GUTFELD: Oh, thank you.

GUILFOYLE: You're little, but I wouldn't call you fat.

KILMEADE: In fact, we just did bench-press (ph) before the show.

Hey, coming up straight ahead, two women are about to make history as the first female graduates of the Army Ranger school. And you are going to hear from them, coming up.

GUILFOYLE: Big tease.


WILLIAMS: Hillary Clinton took questions from Black Lives Matter protesters this week. And this activist was not impressed with her answers.


ELLE HEARNS, BLACK LIVES MATTER ACTIVIST: She did exactly what most white people do when they are faced with direct questions from black people around what they can do to better assist with the call to action that's been put out continuously with the Black Lives Matter actions that are taking place right now. She was challenged. She, like, changed hearts and minds, and she said she doesn't believe in that.


WILLIAMS: I'll come back to that. But anyway, Sheriff David Clarke of Milwaukee was not impressed with the movement.


SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE: Let's take a look at this group, this Black Lives Matter, which I have renamed Black Lies -- L-I-E-S -- Matter. And the reason I have is because this is the bastard child, as you know, of the "hand up, don't shoot." The whole thing is built on a lie. The whole premise built on a lie. But it's a conglomeration of misfits.


WILLIAMS: Sheriff Clarke thinks their true mission is to mobilize the black vote for 2016. And if the movement really cared about black lives, they'd be protesting black-on-black crime. Which to me is a pretty good point.

Melissa, I'm going to ask you, what do you think about the idea that, huh, that's what all white people say whenever you bring up race? They just get defensive and they shut down, and they won't talk about changing hearts.

FRANCIS: I don't know. I mean, I've been accused of something similar on this. It is hard as a person to sit there and answer that question. I think that she looked incredibly uncomfortable. I think it's interesting how the movement has turned on Hillary Clinton.

I thought what Sheriff Clarke said, that blacks are victims of the Democratic Party and what moderate liberalism has done to the black family. That was a very strong statement. And it goes back to the theme that we've heard in this election, that when you look at social welfare and handouts, you know, some look at it as a safety net. Others see it as a way to buy votes.

And then there's another group that say that it's a way to keep minorities enslaved. By giving them free stuff and then stopping them from wanting to rise up. Ben Carson says that. Charles Payne on the FOX Business Network says that. What do you think about that?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that's what black conservatives say, and I think there's a lot of truth to it. This is the 50th year after the Moynihan Report. And I think if you look at the condition of the black family in terms of out-of-wedlock births, poverty rates, unemployment, you'd have to say something's wrong here; and we need new answers.

I don't think you can be without compassion. But I do think that you've got to think about the fact that the old strategies have not played out, not been successful. So let me put you back on the spot. Not to deny time, but you...

FRANCIS: I thought I got through that. I mean, it was an argument on the set of "Outnumbered." And I mean, you don't want to talk about race. You don't want to talk about race. I think it was Montel Williams. And it is -- I mean, it is uncomfortable. Sometimes you feel like it's hard to say anything right.

WILLIAMS: Kimberly.


GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, listen, I love this guy. I think he's fantastic. And I hope he gets even more involved in the politics and the direction that the country is going.

WILLIAMS: Sheriff Clarke?

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. I think he is courageous. I think he's honest, he's authentic. And he's somebody that speaks to all people. And I love that. You've got to be inclusive. You can't sit there and say, "I'm just addressing one group."

And I think it's very insulting to say white people don't understand it. What are you talking about? You're part of the problem, then, if you're casting aspersions that way and speaking and labeling all white people, saying that they don't understand the issue or they can't relate. That's really not giving people much credit, is it?

I mean, if that's what you're complaining about to begin with, yet you're making the problem by putting other people down and putting people down by race or putting people down by gender. Like open your mind and look to the individual and what's in that person's heart and mind? And what are they showing you with their actions?

WILLIAMS: Well, and what Hillary Clinton said in that moment was, listen. You could fill Yankee stadium and people could say all kind of lip service to you, Brian. It's a matter of what your goals are. And what are the goals of your movement, she asked them, and they couldn't tell her.

KILMEADE: They couldn't. Again we like the way she directly questioned them and didn't back down because she built up to that. She actually even -- she was told that her husband's administration was anti-black. So she kind of defended even him.

But I will say this. We're in an impossible situation. If you come up to us and say, "Well, you know, there was slavery in this country 220 years ago. And white people did it, and I hold you responsible." What do you want me, Melissa, Greg and Kimberly to say?

No. 1, my relatives weren't even here. My ancestors weren't even here at the time. If you want to talk about real issues and getting your point across and changing things, do what Steven A. Smith said. He goes over to a college, addressed a bunch of students an says, "Hey, all you guys do and all you ladies do is vote Democrat. Make them work for your vote."


KILMEADE: "Tell Republicans what they need to get your vote. Go out and earn it." But right now it's a layup for every Democratic candidate. Therefore, they have no power.

WILLIAMS: I couldn't agree more. Got to get out of the box of being taken for granted by the Democrats or ignored by the Republicans.

But you know, audience, I've saved the best for last. Because Gregory has breaking news about somebody who's been faking it.

GUTFELD: Yes, I was just going to say, as a white person, if you're uncomfortable talking about race, just say you're black. Because you've seen that with Rachel Dolezal and now Shaun King, who's one of the activists of Black Lives Matter. Turns out he may have been fibbing about being black. There he is. Family members have come out and said that he's, in fact, white.

But it doesn't matter. Because identity these days is fluid. And hoaxes are acceptable if they further the truth.

In these activist groups, a hate crime, a hate crime can be exposed as a hoax. But the response is, "Well, it probably happened somewhere. This is happening somewhere." So truth is doomed as hopes are venerated. We've conflated identity with achievement. And now pigment is somehow superior to productivity. So you have white people pretending to be black, because it helps their career.

WILLIAMS: It helps their career?

GUILFOYLE: By the way...


KILMEADE: I think there was a movie about that.

WILLIAMS: It sacrifices credibility. What we're talking about here is do you have a credible movement? Do you have a goal? Who do you stand with? It's frustrating.

GUTFELD: Identity obsession has now merged with victim culture. If you can get victim -- if you can get victim status by adopting a certain race, then you'll do it, which is what you've seen.

GUTFELD: OK, cousin. They're telling me I got to go.


GUTFELD: Because yesterday he revealed his own lineage. As the debate players talk about what to do with illegal immigrants in American, Mexico is tightening its border security. Mexico next.


FRANCIS: New rules have gone into effect at a busy crossing of the U.S.- Mexico border. Pedestrians going to Tijuana from San Diego via the San Ysidro crossing are now required to present a passport, fill out paperwork, and if staying longer than a week, they've got to pay 20 bucks. A top immigration official says the change is about, quote, "putting our house in order."

Greg Gutfeld, they want some order at the border.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's almost as if they're requiring people to get in line and form an orderly process.

FRANCIS: It's true (ph)...

GUTFELD: It's like charging a cover to get into a club. I wonder if you get a stamp. Do you try to rub it onto your friends so they get in?

Could I pose a weird question? Why does the "don't drink the water" cliche continue to persist? And you read up on travel -- when you read up on travel things when you're going to go to Mexico, they say, like, as a rule you should not drink tap water. Doesn't that -- like how can a large country just accept that? Do you know what I mean?

KILMEADE: That's a great point.

GUTFELD: How can you just accept that? I don't blame them for coming to the United States if you can't drink your own water.

GUILFOYLE: I knew you were going somewhere with it. And I was hanging in there for you, because I knew it.

GUTFELD: Have you ever thought about that?

WILLIAMS: Yes. In fact, recently I did and I asked somebody, because I was curious about this. And they said they don't have any trouble drinking the water.

KILMEADE: They're used to drinking their own water.

GUTFELD: Is it the water table that is contaminated? Is it the distribution that's a problem? I don't know. But it's not -- it's a cliche, because it's common.

FRANCIS: It's a complete non-sequitur. Let's get back to the subject that we were talking about.

KILMEADE: I forgot. What are we talking about?

FRANCIS: Let me turn to you. They said, lo and behold, 120 Americans were expelled from Baja, because they had outstanding warrants. They want to throw criminals out of Mexico and back into the U.S.

KILMEADE: This is a -- they're reading, they're listening to our news. They're reading our papers. They know what's going on. They know this big debate is about immigration and building a wall. And they've expanded it, and they said, "OK. We'll build that wall, because we're a little afraid of Americans and the criminal element that's coming in."

I know I lived in San Diego for a while, and I would walk over to Tijuana to do something truly Mexican, go to Hard Rock. I would go there all the time. And I'm thinking in retrospect why would I go to Tijuana to go to Hard Rock?

GUILFOYLE: How weird is that?

FRANCIS: Juan, Kimberly, what do you think, 20 bucks? Revenue generator?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Listen, good. Clean your house up. We're going to clean our house up. Pull it together. Let's start observing and following the laws and make some money off of it, too. I don't care. Let them charge 20 bucks.

FRANCIS: The 20-buck fee, that's right out of Trump's playbook.

WILLIAMS: I was going to say, I think Donald Trump is now in charge of Mexican immigration. It's unbelievable.

But you know, whenever I'm in San Diego they tell, oh, the Marines aren't even allowed to go over in Tijuana.

KILMEADE: Not anymore.

WILLIAMS: Because guess what happens? They go over there and things get out of control, baby.

FRANCIS: A little bit. That's Tijuana for you. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing." Let's go to Juan.

WILLIAMS: All right. So I'll begin with really a touching moment today. President Carter down at the Carter Center in Atlanta saying that the cancer has spread to his brain from his liver. He said he's had part of his liver removed, and he thought he would only have a few weeks left once he heard it had spread to his brain. But now he's more hopeful. He also said the best thing in his life in 69 years was Roslyn Carter.

But here he's talking about a mistake he made.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything you wish, I'm sorry, that you had not done or that you'd done differently?

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I wish I'd sent one more helicopter to get the hostages, and we would have rescued them. And I would have been re-elected. But that may have...


WILLIAMS: Well. Talk about looking back, you know. But he said, you know, what's interesting. He's not depressed; he's not angry. I think, you know...

GUILFOYLE: He looks great. God bless him.

WILLIAMS: President Carter, as Kimberly just said, we are rooting for you.

GUTFELD: All right, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: Very sweet.

Well, I brought you a story earlier in the week about the first females to accomplish and achieve and graduate from the Army Ranger Academy. And so now they've actually spoken publicly. So we're going to take a listen to that. It's Captain Kristen Griest and 1st Lieutenant Shaye Haver.


1ST LT. SHAYE HAVER, ARMY RANGER SCHOOL: It's definitely awesome to be part of the history of the Ranger school in general. So graduating with these guys next to me and the 90-plus other Ranger students that will graduate tomorrow probably will be one of the highlights of my life.

CAPT. KRISTEN GRIEST, ARMY RANGER SCHOOL: I'm just happy to be done with the course. I just came here to try to be a better leader and improve myself. And I feel like I did that.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, well done, ladies, an inspiration to us all, especially the men at this table.

KILMEADE: They'll get deployed now.

GUILFOYLE: Let's see. That's the next step.

GUTFELD: All right. Time for...


GUTFELD: Dana Perino News.


GUTFELD: Dana has been out for a couple of days traveling around. She ended up returning, however, to the Bristol Motor Speedway, where she decided to take a few laps. I don't know if you can catch her here. But she had ended up there in a forbidden area of the speedway.




KILMEADE: People were afraid to approach her.

GUTFELD: Well, she does bite, and she also has claws. There she got through. They had to suspend the racing for a few hours before Dana could get back to her perch above somewhere.

KILMEADE: Her hutch.


GUTFELD: Her hutch.

All right. Enough talking from me, Brian. You?

KILMEADE: I'm just trying to help.

Listen, first time after, I believe, a 17-year career, one of the greatest players in any sport, who was looked up to more than anybody else, actually had some negative things said about him by his former general manager, Brian Cashman.

It turns out in 2010 he said, "You had a bad year? I'd rather have a different player, Troy Tulowitzki than you." Can you believe that? No. 1.

No. 2 is he says, "I kind of like the fact that I was able to tell him something that bluntly, because I was tired of his diva-like ways."

I'm telling you, I've never heard anybody talk about Derek Jeter like this. But general manager Brian Cashman, in a major expose in Sports Illustrated, is nothing if he's not honest. He was very candid there. He doesn't want to throw his company's money out the street.

GUTFELD: You love your sports.


KILMEADE: That's an interesting comment.

GUTFELD: It's an interesting marginal "One More Thing" that no one cares about. But I'm happy you're...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh! So mean.

FRANCIS: Let me go to one that everyone cares about. Did you know that it is 119 days and 10 hours until the force awakens? Yes.

Look at this picture of my family as we are completely ready for the force to reawaken. You will notice that we are building a death star LEGO.


FRANCIS: Yes, while we are watching the six movies on loop. And if you look closely at the table there, we have an R2-D2 game of Operation where you try to pull his little parts out.

GUTFELD: All right. We got to go.

FRANCIS: Can't wait.

GUTFELD: We've got to go. "Special Report." That's very strange.

Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.