Pentagon working to confirm reports of ISIS leader's death
Fresh reports that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is dead; reaction on 'The Five'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 11, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I am Jesse Watters along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 9 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
We are one hour away from Donald Trump Junior's first TV interview since the media explosion, over his meeting with the Russian lawyer allegedly promising damaging info on Hillary Clinton during the campaign. He appears exclusively on HANNITY at 10 p.m. Eastern but we have some clips we can show you now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: In retrospect, I probably would have done something a little differently. Again, this is before the Russia mania. This is before they were building it up in the press. For me, this was opposition research. They had something, you know, maybe concrete evidence for all the stories I had been hearing about that were probably underreported for, you know, years. Not just during the campaign. So, I think I wanted to hear it out. But really it went nowhere. And it was apparent that that wasn't what the meeting was actually about.
WATTERS: And here is some more from Donald Jr. on why he agreed to this meeting in the first place?
TRUMP, JR.: Honestly, my take away when all of this is going on is that someone has information on our opponent. You know, things are going a million miles an hour. You know what it's like to be on a campaign. We just won Indiana. But we're talking about contested convention. Things are going a million miles an hour again. And hey, wait a minute, I've heard about all these things but maybe this is something. I should hear them out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Earlier, we heard from the Russian lawyer he met with, she denies ever working for the Kremlin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here, Donald Trump, Jr., was told that they run a scheduled meeting with him and the Russian government attorney who was flying over from Moscow. The Russian government attorney. That means you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I'm simply flattered by being mocked and called at the government attorney but they have never worked for the government in the first place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: So, let's just talk about Donald Trump Junior for a second, Kimberly. We have known him for quite some time. It looked like he seemed pretty casual in that interview. Pretty serious, like he had nothing to hide. How do you think he comported himself there on Hannity?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: He's a very straightforward person. I have always known him to be a person of integrity and some are very loyal to his friend. I think here he wanted to get out ahead of it and just tell his story to look, I have nothing to hide. This is exactly what happened. How it transpired. This was my thought process. And also give some kind of background in terms of what was going on during the campaign.
You know, at the time, to say, so I'm getting this information. Everything is happening. It almost looks like an episode of 24, Jack Bauer. Like, okay, does somebody have information about the opponent? You're taking some wins then. There's momentum building for Donald Trump in terms of this campaign. And it's going to be him against, you know, Hillary Clinton. So, what, if anything in terms of all of these stories that you're hearing about the Clintons and the Clintons Foundation, all of the above -- you want to try to take it down and see if there's any merit to it.
And I think that's what he was doing and once he found out that this wasn't someone who had any information about that but in fact, the two agenda was to talk about an important topic which is adoptions of, you know, Russian children. And then that was obviously not what the intent and purpose was.
WATTERS: Dana, do you see anything nefarious in this alleged meeting and email conversation? Because it looks like on the surface, it could be another one of these overhyped stories in the mainstream media they could probably go away in a few hours.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, it might but I do wonder about the changing explanations about the meeting. And Trey Gowdy, he was on Martha MacCallum's show earlier. He's the chair of the Oversight Committee in the House said, if you had all this information, why not give it to us now so that you don't have to like, wait until "The New York Times" finds out about it and pushes you to release it. I think it was smart to go on Sean Hannity's show.
And I do think Sean asked him some questions that maybe others wouldn't think he might have asked. But I do think there's still some -- I'm not going to call it nefarious but I do think there's some room there to question the timeline as to why this all happened and I also if you go back --
WATTERS: What do you mean by timeline?
PERINO: In terms of the explanation over the last three days.
WATTERS: The explanation on the timeline.
PERINO: Over the last three days. And getting out in front of "The New York Times" and, you know, releasing the emails. Well, actually, here's the emails before "The New York Times" could actually run the story. I think that lasted for like four hours as a good move. I don't see why this -- if all of this is innocent, why could it not have been talked about several months ago? And I also think he has one other problem. Just in terms of perception. And that is that, a month after the meeting -- he was on Jake Tapper's show and he says anything such as such is ridiculous.
Now, I can understand like maybe not remembering the meeting from a year ago but a month ago and it's Russian and it's weird in saying and like Rob Goldstone and there's actually emails and it says, the government is willing to help you. The Russian government is willing to help you. And he says, I love it. Especially if it's for later in the summer? So, I don't think it's nefarious necessarily, I think people can question the judgment but he's questioning his own judgment and said that he would have done it differently if you had a chance to do it over.
WATTERS: Yes, he was honest about that. And you bring up the point about him releasing the emails. Hillary just bleached the emails, maybe if you had done that, Greg, the media would have just said, okay, that's fine.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: You know, the entire world, including the media, were looking for dirt on both candidates. If you look at Podesta's emails and you look at all of those operatives, I don't think they were meeting with priests or rabbis. And the information that was offered implied donations to Hillary from Russia which might be illegal. I'm sorry, but how could you not listen to that? Reporters are such hypocrites. They get the vapors over something like this.
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: They would have answered that email immediately and said love it. If a Russian called Brian Stelter and said we have information on Donald Trump, he climbed on his big wheels and he pedal like the wind. You know whoever turns, by the way, we are all hypocrites. Whoever turns down gossip about an enemy -- no one ever does. And you don't even give a damn about the source.
If somebody behind the deli counter says that they got stuff on somebody else, from CNN or MSNBC, you are all ears. And by the way, this stuff is coming from the same place every single day. So, forgive me if I don't get all crazy and panicked over this. Every single time a show is supposed to drop and then that dies down. And it goes away. Just as it's about to die down, the times drops another shoe and then you have Maddow, CNN, and Morning Joe, all falling in line doing the same thing.
I've not seen this level of paranoia about the Russians since the 1950s, you know, in the fallout shelter age. But back then, it was the Times defending the Russians. So, they are on this wrong side every single time. This is a pattern. And there might have been a mistake. Yes, maybe he should have talked about it. But get this, not everybody remembers meetings especially when you are busy. When I worked in publishing, I had meetings every month. I had dozens of meetings.
I had meetings with people, publicists who are not to be trusted, trying to tell you that a product works or their products doesn't work. You walk out of that meeting and you go, there is another hour of my life but I will never have. And you never remember it. You don't even -- you think I'm not going to bother anybody with this. I think that this is not a perfect administration but it is a human one.
And every mistakes that's being made is a mistake that I would make. And like Donald, Jr., and me, I wasn't running for office. I wasn't involved. You know? I wasn't president or I wasn't running. I wasn't involved in the campaign. You know, when I make mistakes, he was just some dude who went to a meeting.
WATTERS: Yes.
GUTFELD: I'm sorry.
WATTERS: In the 1950s, I am wearing this jacket in honor of the red scare.
GUTFELD: That's more like Ron Burgundy.
WATTERS: That's right. I want you to address something Greg just said because -- no, this was an outside purchase.
GUILFOYLE: I don't think so. Not sponsored --
WATTERS: No, it does not approve this.
GUILFOYLE: Charming.
WATTERS: Greg said anybody that comes to you with dirt, you're going to listen to it. He said, this woman happened to be Russian. If the woman was French, he still probably still would have taken the meeting, correct? So, the only thing that is controversial is because she is Russian. It could have been anybody else, it would have taken a meeting and the media would have said collusion? They would have said, oh, had a meeting with, you know, a Chinese lady or Korean lady or anybody.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Sorry, doesn't work.
WATTERS: Why not?
WILLIAMS: Well, because he responded to an email that said, this is a Russian government lawyer. So, I mean, there is no question here, he is the one that said love it, want more of it. And Greg's point about, oh, you know, everybody wants information about their enemies on every campaign, huh --
WATTERS: Even though she came to him.
WILLIAMS: Hang on. That's fine. It doesn't matter.
GUTFELD: Yes, it does matter.
WATTERS: You didn't seek yourself.
WILLIAMS: I guess you don't want me to speak because you guys are so afraid. But I am going to say this.
GUTFELD: I am not afraid, Juan. I am just waiting for you to make your point.
WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, then let me do it. Because in the campaign of 2000, guess what? The Gore campaign got over the transom information about the Bush campaign and guess what they did? They did what Donald Trump, Jr. should have done which is called the FBI and say, we don't know where this is from, we don't know what this is about. You have people like Ari Fleischer today saying, this is a case where yes, everybody is looking for information but you don't take information from a Russian government that is our adversary.
GUTFELD: He didn't. He didn't.
WATTERS: He's a criminal.
WILLIAMS: We don't know. But we do know that a couple of days later, Donald Trump himself is saying Russia, if you can hack Hillary Clinton, if you can get her emails, we would love it.
GUTFELD: That was a joke.
WILLIAMS: Here's what not a joke. This is no isolated event at this point. There is no longer the ability to say oh, there's no evidence of collusion. This is evidence of collusion. No, let me finish. Because we have a pattern now. We have a pattern of Trump, President Trump's inner circle holding meetings tied to people associated with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
GUILFOYLE: Okay. But she also said that that's not true.
WILLIAMS: And then conveniently, as Charles Krauthammer said, having a case of amnesia.
GUTFELD: All right. Collusion requires a two-way street. Cooperation. Is it collusion to listen? Because if listening is collusion, then no journalist could ever write a story. If somebody calls you and you are doing opposition research, you will go. You sit down and you go, I'm doing this, this is a favor to some publicist. By the way, it's interesting to think that the Russians would use a U.K. publicist for this. But that's another story. I don't think listening, you can say the optics are bad but listening is not a crime. Listening to people is not a crime.
WILLIAMS: You are listening to Russians --
GUTFELD: Oh, wait. So, if I listen to my wife, that's a crime?
PERINO: We could talk about this story all day. I would say, when Greg says, we are all hypocrites, I do think that we have to think about this. People compare it to Hillary Clinton but let me give you an example with President Obama. Imagine Reggie Love gets contacted by somebody that says, hey, I have got someone from the Iranian government that wants to come in and meet with you and he says great, I'd love to do that.
You know what? I am going to get Ben Rose and Valerie Jarrett, and we will going to go to this meeting but then they're not going to have any good and so, we're going to forget about it and then a year later, if this all came out, what would have happened? Let me also say this --
WATTERS: A war with Russia. I mean, we are kind of at war with the Iranians, the biggest states --
PERINO: We do know that the Russians are a geopolitical flow.
WATTERS: Sure.
PERINO: Well, okay, put Russia in the next bin.
WATTERS: Okay.
PERINO: Whatever in to date but we all know what would be happening. The other thing is for the Trump administration, I can imagine what they are thinking in that June that they are in the fight of their lives. They're going to have a contested convention. They think that she might beatable. But the truth is, if you look back at, hindsight being 20/20. They had the winning message. They were running against a very weak candidate and they were able to turn out voters that had not turned out in a long time and then actually switched voters.
You had districts that use to win by like 8,000 votes, now winning like 25- 30,000 votes in counties in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Of course you don't know that in June of 2016 but if you look back, all of this was totally unnecessary because they were going to win anyway.
WATTERS: Last word, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, look, he is a private individual. He is not part of the Trump administration. He can talk to whoever he wants to talk to. And the only evidence -- there's no evidence of collusion here. There's lots of evidence of delusion.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say -- there's evidence that he's talking to Russian scandal --
GUILFOYLE: Oh, no, are you talking about that?
GUTFELD: Hey, Juan, Juan --
WILLIAMS: A Russian government officials and he knows is an insult to him as a Russian government lawyer and he says, love it.
GUTFELD: Juan, you have never said love it in an email?
WILLIAMS: Of course I had.
GUTFELD: You'd never had something to say. No, but let me get to this point. Has anybody ever asked you out for coffee at work and you don't want to go, sounds great? Yes. Wonderful? And then the next day, you tell your assistant cancel it.
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: Let me say though.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: And you know else, Greg? And you know what else?
GUTFELD: That's fine. That's pretty --
WILLIAMS: Hey, let me bring the president of FOX News and let me bring the entire cast of "The Five" and you guys just --
GUTFELD: I don't think Manafort didn't know what it was?
WILLIAMS: What?
GUTFELD: He didn't even read the emails.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, yes, yes. If you get the campaign manager and the son- in-law and you are the son of the candidate, that's a pretty --
GUTFELD: A 20 minute meeting to listen to something is not collusion.
GUILFOYLE: Here's what it's going to happen -- this is going nowhere.
WATTERS: I think Democrats were for Russia and now they are against Russia. Stay right there. More to come on the Donald Trump, Jr. frenzy. Some dramatic political and media reaction today, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Welcome back to "The Five." And we are less than 45 minutes away now from Sean Hannity's full exclusive interview with Donald Trump, Jr. But before we get to that, take a look at how the broadcast networks covered Donald, Jr.'s meeting with the Russian lawyer during the campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We start with a bombshell chain of emails breathing new life into the question of whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russian operatives to boost his chances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The President's son was told during the campaign that he was about to get dirt on Hillary Clinton. And he was told in those emails that the Russian government without the help his father win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Russia investigation, the President called "fake" has just become a very real problem for his son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: And here are some of the political reactions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are beyond obstruction of justice in terms of what's being investigated. This is moving into perjury, false statements and even potentially treason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have too much evidence at this point that this administration has been compromised by Russian interests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there's an email from the Russians suggesting the Russian government wants to help, that would be very problematic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Okay. So, we had a good discussion moments ago about this story and Greg, your reaction to this, the media and the network's coverage of this story?
GUTFELD: You know, I have to say that maybe this story would mean something to me -- I'm so tired of being suckered into this. You know, they oversell these things like the worst county fair sideshow. You know, the once that, that's like the monster rode in from space and it turns out to be a rabbit with just an extra foot. And then CNN actual reports --
WILLIAMS: What kind of fair did you go to?
GUTFELD: But CNN solve this news that Tim Kaine was calling it treasonous. And I am thinking like, how is it -- that a guy that was humiliated by Mike Pence in a debate and then humiliated in November by Trump and Pence would express this kind of political opinion towards the people who basically beat him like a bowl of eggs.
GUILFOYLE: Right. And we also is obviously a poor student of the law because there is no treason here. But thanks so much for that. Wow! Okay, Dana.
PERINO: The left at the moment never misses an opportunity to overreact. And so, there are overreaction. Every overreaction calls it an overreaction on the other side. And so --
GUTFELD: I'm overreacting.
PERINO: Yes. And you are very loud.
GUILFOYLE: You're good at it.
PERINO: And I'm thinking about the communication's team though tonight, right? Because there is now another story, now there's an anchor in the White House, like who were the sources for these stories? Because it was not that deep state. So now they know that they have got something else out there. And so, remember Don Rumsfeld, the former Secretary of Defense, he said, there are no knowns, there are known unknowns and there are unknown unknowns.
And if I were at the White House, I would put up a big board, like here is all the knowns, the unknowns and where do we have to figure out to close these gaps? And people have to start talking and trusting a communicator so that they can try to get up in front of this because, if they want to talk about health care and infrastructure and tax reform, they have to clear the decks and allow some space for that. The story won't go away. The media is not going to stop until --
GUILFOYLE: You are 100 percent right. You hit the nail on the head. The problem is, there isn't trust of the communicators. That's the problem. So, if you don't trust the communicators --
PERINO: Apparently, they don't trust each other either.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. You've got to do something about it. Because you can't run efficiently, you know, like this. Jesse --
WATTERS: I think the left is playing Russian roulette with this story. They are going to lose once again. Treason is defined by the Article 3 of the constitution -- whoever growing allegiance to the U.S. either levees, war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort with the U.S. or elsewhere. Meeting with a Russian lawyer is not treason. Listening to someone dig dirt on another opponent is not treason. And how is that giving aid and comfort if you listen to someone dish dirt on your opponent? A conversation is not collusion.
GUILFOYLE: When there wasn't any dirt dished.
WATTERS: Well, yes, there was no dirt. So, there is another empty promise. Collusion is not a crime. And collusion is not a legal term. There is no collusion in the statute. It's only about price fixing. And I don't think there was any price-fixing going on here. And collusion is only like, we talked about it in the last block, it's secretive or illegal coordination with the attention to deceive. There was no crime here and then there was no deceit.
So, the only facts are this woman wasn't connected to the Russian government, she was not a Russian agent and there was nothing discussed about hacking, either. There is some collusion -- if you want to play this game -- between the Ukrainian government and the Clinton campaign. There were meetings at the Ukrainian Embassy. The DNC was involved. This is from Politico. Juan is laughing. From Politico.
Ukrainian government officials try to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly crushing his fitness for office and helped research damaging information on Trump, as an advisor and disseminated documents smearing his aides. If she wants to criminalize politics, then the Clinton campaign is going to have to go behind bars too.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you, Professor Burgundy. Juan?
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, clearly you have here a situation now where people think there was possibility of crime. And the very least what we have is - -
GUILFOYLE: Where?
WILLIAMS: Well, the conspiracy would be election fraud, conspiracy to commit election fraud or conspiracy to obtain information from a foreign, adversary from a foreign government.
WATTERS: How does this election fraud?
WILLIAMS: That's not allowed in American. That's illegal.
WATTERS: But how is this election a fraud?
WILLIAMS: How it's a fraud?
WATTERS: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Not only that. You say there's no intent.
WATTERS: Wait. Juan, Juan, how is it election fraud?
WILLIAMS: Because what you have here is, you are breaking the law by seeking information and collusion with a foreign government to influence --
WATTERS: That is not what the law says.
GUILFOYLE: You're making this up. There is no evidence of that.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. What you're saying is, you're reading a statute. Let me tell you where this comes into play, Jesse is impeachment. If it's impeachment --
WATTERS: Juan, you're throwing out words like collusion, crime and impeachment.
WILLIAMS: No.
WATTERS: Read the statute.
WILLIAMS: No! That's not the relevant statute. The relevant statute is - -
WATTERS: What's in the fraud?
WILLIAMS: -- the Congress of the United States to decide if they want to impeach President Trump. That's what we're talking about.
GUTFELD: So, what they're saying is -- it doesn't matter, they just want to get him out.
WILLIAMS: No, I don't think that's the issue.
GUTFELD: From the beginning.
WILLIAMS: -- we are talking about when Jesse says. Oh, there's no intent. Obviously there was intent to deceive. The man has changed his story the last three days repeatedly. Made it out to be, oh, this is about adoption?
(CROSSTALK)
The only reason that he came forward by releasing all these emails is because the failing "New York Times" busted him over his head and forced him to release this information and it's embarrassing to him, embarrassing to --
GUTFELD: How many times have they been right and how many times have they been wrong in the last month?
WILLIAMS: Oh, I think they're pretty right on this one.
GUTFELD: Well, they've been wrong a lot before.
GUILFOYLE: All right. We will going to take you live to the White House for new reaction from the President on the story in just a bit.
But first, is the leader of ISIS dead? Are the reports true? We will going to hear from the commander of our coalition's fight against the terror networks, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Welcome back. President Trump called and congratulated the Iraqi Prime Minister today. On a liberation on Mosul by the security forces there calling it a major milestone in the fight against ISIS. And there is also word today that the leader of ISIS may be dead. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says it has confirmed Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has been killed but the top American commander of our fight against the terror network can't verify whether it is true.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. STEPHEN TOWNSEND, TOP U.S. COMMANDER IN IRAQ: I don't have a clue. Simple as that. So, I don't know if he's alive. I don't know if he's dead. I don't know where he is alive. I don't know where his dead body is. I don't have a clue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Russia claimed they killed al-Baghdadi in an airstrike near the Syrian city of Raqqa in May. I could listen to that Lieutenant General Stephen Townsend all day. He also said that this is possibly a cause for concern. Well, I'm sorry, this is Bob Kagan saying this. That Kimberly --
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
PERINO: ISIS had split from al Qaeda. And if al-Baghdadi is dead and we don't know that for sure but that it could mean that there could be a reconstitution of al Qaeda and a strengthening of that rather than a weakening. What do you think?
GUILFOYLE: Well, I think that's entirely possible but I think they have the resources to be able to determine whether or not this is true. And they should. Because this is somebody who remains an HBT and they need to make sure that he is terminated. So, if the Russians did it, fine by me. Dead is dead, you know.
PERINO: It is so hard --
GUILFOYLE: But other than that, it's going to affect overall our intelligence gathering and our strategy in terms of who is in place and who is the leadership, and if he's gone, then let's -- somebody else just moved up on the whack a mole --
PERINO: Exactly, and whoever would be next. Greg, we have thought that he was dead before but he has resurfaced but in this case, nobody have seen hide (ph) or heard of him in about three months.
GUTFELD: He comes back an lot more often than Charlie Sheen. Did you just say that the Russians got him?
PERINO: The Russians claimed --
GUTFELD: Do we know that's for sure? Were we colluding with them when we killed that guy?
PERINO: That's what the Ralph Peter and Tucker Carlson debate was about.
GUTFELD: I missed it, although I saw Scott Adams and he was fantastic. Well done Scott. By the way, even if ISIS ends and it's gone, it's never going to end because toxic Islamism has a persistent quality to it. Wherever there are people that are looking for martyrdom, there's going to be people who are willing to be martyrs.
So you got to treat radical extremism, Islamism like black mold in your house. You just have to be on top of them. You could take the victories and it matters. If only we started this sooner -- if we had been this committed to killing ISIS earlier, there'd be a lot of innocent people alive right now.
PERINO: That's a really good point. The lieutenant general commander said that, Jesse, if we are to keep ISIS 2.0 from emerging, then the Iraqi government is going to have to do something pretty significantly different. So now they've got another chance to regain their country.
WATTERS: Another chance and another chance because we saw what happened last time after the disaster, I think it was 2006 they began to turn it around. But before that, you know, you leave 2007, you leave and then they come back. So then Petreaus comes in the clear and hold strategy.
We have to hold and we have to keep some American presence there on the ground or else they're going to reconstitute their forces there. You know, this guy, Baghdadi, had $25 million bounty on his head so there are been a lot of greedy people on that (INAUDIBLE) looking for that body.
PERINO: Are we going to have to pay the Russians?
WATTERS: Yes, and we have to -- I wouldn't like to do that wire transfer if I was in the Trump administration.
PERINO: I think they'll be safe before that happens.
WATTERS: Exactly.
PERINO: Juan, any thoughts on this?
WILLIAMS: Well, I meant it comes in such a great moment because you see finally that, you know, ISIS is driven out of Mosul. And the question is I think what you guys are discussing, it's not just keeping Al Qaeda from becoming reconstituted. It's also rebuilding the cities inside Iraq.
WATTERS: Plus billions of --
PERINO: $100 billion --
WILLIAMS: And the question is how do you do that because you have persistence what's between the Shia and the Sunni. And, you know, it looks to me like you refer this from other politicians and general and military leaders that you may be really on the verge of more of a sectarian divide and how that country is put together because I don't see that they're going to be able to reconstitute some kind of alliance between Shia and Sunni in there while you've got Iran and the Russians and the problems up north with the Turks.
PERINO: And that's what they're -- I think that's what he was referring to when he said that the Iraqis have got to do something significantly different.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
PERINO: All right, next, more health care fearmongering from one of the Senate's top Democrats. Bernie Sanders now comparing the GOP's bill to 9/11. And don't forget, Hannity's exclusive interview with Donald Trump, Jr. is coming up shortly. Analysis to follow on a live edition 11: 00 p.m. edition of "The Fox News Specialists." Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: It's only been a month since the Stephen Scalise shooting and the left are back to branding the opposition as killers. At a rally in Kentucky, Bernie Sanders actually compared the GOP health care bill to 9/11. Of course he says nobody can predict exactly how many people will die if they lose their coverage:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT.: Nobody can predict exactly how many people will die if they lose their coverage. Nobody can make that prediction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: But what the heck, do it anyway!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: But what experts at the Harvard School of Public Health estimate is that if 23 million Americans were to be thrown off the insurance they currently have -- which is what the House bill would do -- up to, up to 28,000 Americans every single year could die. That is nine times more than the tragic losses we suffered on 9/11 every single year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: There you go. At least he didn't compare it to the Holocaust -- yet.
So once again the left brand any Republican act as deadly, making the GOP nine times worse than Al Qaeda. This smear -- which Bernie says no one can make then he goes ahead and makes it -- is based on another wild and likely false prediction. If you say rolling back Obamacare will cost lives, first you have to prove that it saves lives. Too bad it's not supported by reduced mortality rates. So it's a harmful fib that could lead to real harm. If you buy the numbers -- 28,000 could die due to the actions of 240 evil Republicans -- where do you end up? You end up in bed with Scalise's shooter. To save thousands of lives, just kill 240 -- it seems logical if you're a leftist. Their moral relativism combined with their demonization of adversaries who defy the ideology of the oppressed excuses such violence. Be it in a mob in Hamburg, defending Linda Sarsour, excusing terrorists like Bill Ayers, idealizing tyrants like Stalin or Mao, or finally implying that Scalise had it coming.
Oh, to be a leftist. If their hearts are in the right place, they can rip out yours.
GUILFOYLE: Oh my goodness. Powerful.
GUTFELD: Thank you Kimberly. Don't you agree that an exaggerated prediction like this contributes to the climate of hate that we've been trying to avoid?
GUILFOYLE: A hundred percent, but they have no gain. They have no bench. They have no idea. They have fearmongering and false promises. And this kind of hysteria is completely inappropriate, and who is he trying to help by saying things that he knows are patently untrue and are false?
And by the way, how disrespectful to the families and the people and the victims of 9/11, OK, that were murdered by jihadists. Is he saying that basically that senators trying to put this through. That the U.S. government and the House and the Senate are jihadist radical terrorists trying to murder Americans? Get a grip on yourself, Bernie.
GUTFELD: You know, Juan, at 2015 age adjusted mortality rose and life expectancy declined for the first time since the early '90s. I suppose if I were Bernie Sanders I would say thank you, Obamacare, but I'm not because I'm a nice person.
WILLIAMS: You are a nice person.
GUTFELD: Thank you.
WILLIAMS: You're a sweetheart. But I must say, so Bernie is talking about something that was in New England Journal of Medicine that came out late last month. But basically, he refers to numbers because what it said was because of Romneycare in Massachusetts, which is basically Obamacare, one life was saved I think it was for every 830 people who gained health insurance. He was trying to flip the numbers and he then applied it to the national standard and it just became hyperbole.
WATTERS: So you're saying Bernie's math was off?
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I think --
PERINO: Bernie math.
WILLIAMS: I think it was excess and I don't think it was effective. I don't think it's the case that he's suggesting that the Republicans are killers. I think what he's suggesting and what is true to my mind is that their people right now who say we want to win at any cost, instead of thinking about what is a good health care plan that will really help the American people cover more people, lower the cost, so that we can have good health insurance in our affluent country.
GUTFELD: Is that what he meant, Jesse?
WATTERS: No, I can't believe Larry David said that. I think HBO should fire him. Whenever you make an analogy and compare things to 9/11 or the Holocaust, it means you lost the argument. Obama actually did throw off millions of people from their health insurance policies. Remember? And I don't think anybody died.
And when they use that 23 million number, that's because the government is not forcing you to buy a product you don't want.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
WATTERS: They're giving you the freedom to choose whether or not you want to buy health insurance.
GUILFOYLE: Versus forced taxation.
WATTERS: Exactly. And I'm sick and tired of being lectured by the same people that ruined health care and now saying this is going to happen when you repeal the same health care bill that they jammed through our throats. It's not funny. It's annoying. We're sick of it. The Democrats had their chance. Let the Republicans take a swing at the ball. Everything they promised was wrong. So let's just wait and see what happens.
WILLIAMS: You meant the Republicans who had seven years have the chance to do something and don't have a --
WATTERS: I'm not going to argue with that.
WILLIAMS: OK.
GUTFELD: We talked about this before. The benefit from insurance depends on the type of coverage because we've seen studies. Medicaid doesn't help and a lot of the people, I mean, aren't most of the people on Medicaid from Obamacare? I mean, it wasn't -- private health
WATTERS: They expand.
PERINO: A lot of people -- a lot of the states were expanded. The thing is -- the argument that Bernie is making would mean that Republicans don't want people to be on Medicaid.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: That's not the case. They want the program to be sustainable to be able to take care of the people that can afford it. What would Bernie say about the National Health Service in Britain when it takes several weeks, I mean, I think it was up to something like 15 weeks to get an appointment to see you general practitioner.
That's the type of thing that you see under the National Health Service and that's actually in Britain. The last thing I would say is Senator Cruz is making headway on his amendment which would provide -- I won't give a description -- basically a lot more competition and still give one plan for pre-existing conditions in every state as long as they were Obamacare approved.
That is actually gaining momentum and I believe that this bill is going to pass. It's going to be ugly bit by the end of the next week plus whenever it is, mid-August, there will be a health care bill.
GUILFOYLE: The problem is Bernie is trying to distract away from the fact those very strong serious chance that his wife is going to be indicted on federal bank fraud charges by sometime within the next year.
GUTFELD: Good point.
PERINO: She didn't release her e-mails.
GUTFELD: Up next -- it's probably the Russians -- you will hear more Donald Trump, Jr.'s first TV interview on his Russian meeting. Plus, new reaction from the White House, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Sean Hannity's full exclusive interview with Donald Trump, Jr. on his meeting with the Russian lawyer coming up shortly. But first, here's a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, HANNITY SHOW HOST: Did you tell your father anything about this?
DONALD TRUMP, JR., PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: It was such a nothing. There was nothing to tell. I mean I wouldn't even remember it until you start scouring through the stuff. It was literally just a wasted 20 minutes, which was a shame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Joining us now with reaction from the president today is Kristin Fisher live at the White House. Kristin.
KRISTIN FISHER, FOX NEWS WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey Juan, well President Trump is defending his son and his son's decision to release those e-mails by saying that he applauds his transparency. But that transparency just handed investigators on Capitol Hill and in the Special Counsel's office a whole mountain of new evidence.
Here's the exchange that's probably the most problematic from the White House. It's from Rob Goldstone, the British tabloid publicist who set up the meeting between Trump, Jr., and that infamous Russian attorney. Goldstone writes, "This is obviously very high-level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government support for Mr. Trump."
He goes on to say that it, "would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and will be very useful to your father." Well Trump, Jr. responded by saying, "if it's what you say, I love it especially later in the summer." Obviously closer to the election.
Now that has Democrats like Hillary Clinton's former running mate, Senator Tim Kaine using word like perjury and even treason. But Trump, Jr. says tonight that he thought this meeting was just your routine opposition research and that his father, President Trump, knew nothing about it. Juan.
WILLIAMS: Kristin, thank you so much. That was terrific. So KG, what do you think? When you hear -- out yourself as a former prosecutor in the position of Bob Marlow (ph) who is doing this investigation, would you think this is a significant change in what's been presented to him?
GUILFOYLE: No, I don't. Just because a publicist said this in a suggestion, that is not evidence of any kind of colluding with Russia or anything. And you've been already allowed to see and hear coming up from Don Jr., in terms of what he was told, what he believed. And then said it was a waste of 20 minutes.
So now we have all the evidence out and where is -- there is no evidence of any kind of criminal misconduct. There is no evidence of collusion. There is lots of evidence of Russian hysteria to the point where Russia needs a good P.R. agent because they're getting the worse, like, reputation by the minute.
WILLIAMS: OK, Jesse, the president through his spokesman today said, he's son is an admirable young man. What do you think?
WATTERS: I believe he's a man of integrity. I believe Don Jr. is the victim here. If you look at this guy, Goldstein, I mean he looks like a --
GUILFOYLE: Goldstone.
WATTERS: -- Goldstone, whatever his name, he looks like some sort of sketchy like '90s boy band manager with that outfit. He's very suspicious. It looked like the whole thing with a set up. If I was Don Jr., I'd be furious at this so-called associate of mine who dumped this wacky lawyer in my lap from Russia, who ends up blowing this whole thing up now, this summer and the e-mail thing and now, you know, you can't get around the e- mail. So, I'd be mad at this Goldstone guy.
WILLIAMS: In keeping with what Jesse just said, Dana, the "New York Post," which is a pretty conservative editorial page, their lead editorial says Donald Trump, Jr. is an idiot.
PERINO: Right. I won't comment on that, but I would say that Peter Baker of the "New York Times" have a story that is running tonight and will be in tomorrow's paper that says there's discontent within the White House with President Trump's lawyer, Mr. Kaskowitz. There might be another change there so, just expect -- just have your expectations. This story is going to continue and even -- you can say as much as you want. This is a nothing burger or a whopper or whatever. This story is going to continue.
GUTFELD: It's nothing caviar. It's nothing borscht.
PERINO: I'm just saying that -- I'm just saying that the story is going to continue
GUILFOYLE: Nothing vodka.
GUTFELD: Nothing vodka.
WILLIAMS: What do you think?
GUTFELD: I'm curious and maybe I missed this fact because I've been reading a lot. How did the Russian lawyer get into the United States if her -- wasn't her visa denied? And she arrived under President Obama. I'm just wondering how she got in.
WATTERS: Now you're on to something.
GUTFELD: It's not, look, but I am --
WATTERS: Obama did it.
GUTFELD: No, I don't know. But how did she get in? Like she was here for a different reason.
GUILFOYLE: Well this seems to be a set up of some sort. But you know what, I would be frustrated if I was the president because why is his son being involved in this? Why wasn't somebody actually, like, looking out for a family member, making sure he's not part of it?
PERINO: Paul Manafort was there.
GUILFOYLE: -- like this and say, OK, but then I wouldn't have him -- I wouldn't have Don Jr. present at something like this. And he's a smart guy.
WILLIAMS: All right, well, I think the problem at the moment for President Trump is, did he know about this meeting? His son says on "Hannity," well, you watch. "One More Thing" --
GUTFELD: There you go. Tease.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: It's time now for "One More Thing" but before we begin, we want to mark a very special occasion. "The Five" has turned six today. Happy anniversary, you guys.
(APPLAUSE)
WATTERS: Just take a bow. All right, time now for the "One More Thing", and Juan Williams.
WILLIAMS: Well, on this day in history, and it's unbelievable, Alexander Hamilton was shot in a duel by his political rival Aaron Burr. He died the next day. And today, Hamilton tweeted, I mean Hamilton, the Broadway musical. The show posted a tribute video today showcasing the very spot Hamilton and Burr faced off.
It's actually just across the river from New York in Weehawken, New Jersey. The landmark features a bust of Hamilton and the actual boulder where he is said to have rested after he was shot. As you know, he was born in the Caribbean but he died back here in Manhattan as a true New Yorker. And you can visit the treasury secretary's gravesite at Trinity Church near Wall Street.
WATTERS: Greg Gutfeld.
GUTFELD: Time for this, "Greg's Fox News." All right, a lot of people ask me what it is like in the green room. That's where the guest and we hang out before the show, and I thought I'd have a little behind the scenes footage. Here we are at Fox News, enjoying our free time, getting ready right there.
We're just -- we do some throat exercises. It actually is screaming. It's kind of a messy green room, I will admit. And somebody seems to be unconscious over on the left.
PERINO: Probably smells like everything.
GUTFELD: That's Lou Dobbs.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: -- back there. Anyway, that's what we do.
GUILFOYLE: This is me screaming when we try to come up --
GUTFELD: All right, Dana.
PERINO: All right, so our friend and colleague Rick Grenell, he was diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in 2013. His partner, Matt Lashey, said that watching someone he loved suffer so much during chemotherapy made him want to help and find a way to help.
He is a consultant with Data Analysis Experince, and he created an app called chemoWave, and it's an app that tracks symptoms of patients that help your loved one control side effects. It is free on iTunes. ChemoWaves. Rick Grenell is free of cancer now so that is also very good news.
GUILFOYLE: God bless.
PERINO: They put a lot of hard work into that application.
GUILFOYLE: So amazing.
WATTERS: God bless.
PERINO: It's a great app.
GUILFOYLE: Two wonderful people.
WATTERS: Actor Shia LaBeouf was arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct. He had some things to say to the police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIA LABEOUF, ACTOR: I have right as an American. I was asking for a cigarette. You said no. I said word. And then you arrested me you dumb (BLEEP). They got cameras everywhere you dummy. I got more millionaire lawyers than you know what to do with, you stupid (BLEEP).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Wow.
GUTFELD: Bad news.
WATTERS: We all feel bad for him obviously having some mental issues. Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: OK, so time for "Kimberly's Food Court." Yes, that's right. I've got no food to eat. However, maybe next week we'll have the resources. But it's more like drink court because that's because two new studies and you kind of heard this, that I was delighted. Coffee can have long term impact on your health. It can actually cut diabetes, respiratory and kidney disease by 12 percent and 18 percent for those --
WATTERS: Wow. All right, "Hannity" with Donald Trump, Jr., next.
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