Donald Trump accuses RNC of controlling delegate system

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 13, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. Its 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five." Donald Trump's once again at odds with the RNC and the committee's chairman appears to be losing his patience. The republican front-runner thinks the party's rigged the delegate process to keep him from getting the nomination.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: The bottom line is the rules are the rules. Didn't you just get outplayed on the ground?

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. I don't think so. I know the rules very well, but I know that it's stacked against me. And by the establishment, I fully understand it. We have people out there and they weren't heard. And we have delegates there, we have a lot of delegates and they were not heard, because the Republican Party out there was 100 percent probably controlled by the RNC, which maybe doesn't like this happening because I'm a self-funder. I'm putting up my own money. They don't like when I put my own money, because it means they don't have any control of me because I'm working for the people.


GUILFOYLE: But the party's leader Reince Priebus says, "That's not the case." And he head back in a tweet last night saying, "The nomination process is known for a year plus beyond. It's the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it. Complaints now? Give us all a break." Here's Rush Limbaugh's take on the issue.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: What do you mean if Trump is denied? He hasn't won it yet. If he wins it and he is denied, then you've got a point. If he gets the 1237, and they trying to take it away from him, then you've got a real point. But he hasn't won didly-squat yet. He hasn't got 1237. Yet, what -- there's nothing to deny yet. And I think that may be a point. There is no entitlement here. Just because you're leaving, doesn't mean it's yours.


GUILFOYLE: OK, so obviously a lot of high emotions on both sides. Some strong statements coming out, one from the chairman of the RNC and then you saw Mr. Limbaugh there weighing in on this issue. So, now it's our turn. What do you think, Bolling?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: It's been a long, long four or five hours they look into this. I think Donald Trump is wrong on the issue of individual state, individual contests. He's complaining about Louisiana. He really shouldn't complain about Louisiana, because no one took anything away from him. It is just Ted Cruz got some things that were there for the taking, that he was unable to get. Same thing happened in Colorado, maybe the same thing is happening in Nebraska, as well. So in the respect that he didn't know the rules and the system was rigged against him, specifically. I'm going to say, I don't agree with that at all. I think the system is kind of rigged for both Ted Cruz and Donald Trump at the convention level. And I spent a long time looking into this today, because I wanted to make sure we lock this down completely. At the convention, just before the convention starts, the rules committee is comprised of one man and one woman from every state. There's a hundred there, so to 50 states. Plus one from each of the six territories, so there's 112. But then there's a chairman of that rules committee, that's not one of the delegates, it could be anyone. Likely it gonna be Reince Priebus or Paul Ryan, could be -- may not be. Point is this, if Donald Trump gets to that convention without 1237 -- 1236 just let's say, he doesn't get in on the first or second vote. That rules committee chairman who is not a delegate can say, let's take another look at the rules and then push for another rule, maybe changing the rule to bring in more people by lowering the threshold of that eight-state majority that you need right now. According to Romney, they may change down to five states or four states or no states for that matter. Maybe no one, and then it would open up to more and more people. Now the pushback is, or the delegates that are going to the rules committee at the convention are Trump and Cruz people. Not necessarily that they maybe, they may have flipped. They could be -- they could be state level RNC operatives. So there's a lot of question. I mean, it would be great to get --

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: What's your bottom line?

BOLLING: My bottom line is I think that they can clear this up. The RNC can clear it up saying the rules that stand right now will not be changed. Those will be that ones.

WILLIAMS: That would be changing the rules.

BOLLING: You can't say there --

WILLIAMS: They can't do that.

BOLLING: Things are not gonna change.

WILLIAMS: You can't do -- look, I don't like, I don't like the idea that anybody is stealing anything. I think politics is difficult enough without changing the rules at the last minute. And what you're suggesting is if they change the rules.

BOLLING: No, no.

WILLIAMS: . in a way that would benefit front-runner.

BOLLING: No, the rules are in place from --

WILLIAMS: That's why so keep --

BOLLING: From the 2012.

WILLIAMS: So keep the rules including the rules, that the rules committee gets together and they decide what is in the best interests of the republican national party.

BOLLING: You're talking in a circle right now.


BOLLING: The rules -- yeah, but yet, keep the rule is -- that deems every rule temporary? That's ridiculous.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BOLLING: But that's -- that in essence of what we have.

GUILFOYLE: Dana Perino. I want to know everything that in your highlights right there.


GUILFOYLE: On your paper.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I did some work, because I have some time off and now I'm -- back and raring to go. So Donald Rumsfeld was famous for saying -- well, it's not his saying, but it became famous during the Iraq war when was questioned all the time about readiness and preparedness, and he said, "You go to war with the army that you have, I mean the military that you have, not necessarily the one that you want." And I think that is the same with -- whichever candidate is running. You run with the election process that exists, not necessarily the one that you wanted. Now, a lot of party people that are like (inaudible) stalwarts, and these are the ones that -- they actually, they have little pin, and they have the hat, and they go to the committee meetings, and they've been part of the RNC or the DNC for their whole lives and they've know these delegates process, and they're probably the only that actually really pay attention to it. Except every four years and people come back around and go, oh, wait, now we want to get involved in this process. Now I understand the frustration because there's -- you really have to run 50 or 56 different campaigns all at once.


PERINO: You have -- well, and plus, maybe even more because you have the general election strategy.


PERINO: . for the -- for that. You have a primary strategy for those early states. And then, as you're seeing with this recent development, so you have the delegate push. The other thing that the republicans have that the democrats don't, so the democrats had the super delegate process that we've been talking about? That the republicans changed that a few years ago to this winner take all and proportional type thing, to try on winnow down the field. That was successful for both campaigns. Even though the democrats only started with four democrats, now they're down to two. We had 17, now we're down to three. So that process works. It's just that each state has their right to come up with a process. And nobody -- when the rules were done last June, April -- whatever, nobody or -- I think it was earlier than that in April. Nobody knew who was going to run at that time. I mean, you could have guess. It maybe Jeb Bush who'll run. It might have been Scott Walker. You could say Rubio, Cruz. But I don't think anyone would have said that they knew Trump -- Donald Trump was going to run so that's why they did these rules. I think Eric is right on that. The key for Donald Trump, I think right now is -- then try to win. He just hired Rick Wiley who was the campaign manager for Scott Walker, and Scott Walker's campaign didn't last very long. But Rick Wiley is an experienced hand with very good connections with the RNC -- probably a very good hire for him.

GUILFOYLE: So that was a good move, in terms of that having --

PERINO: Oh, we'll see. I mean the people -- there are people who are.


PERINO: . detractors of his that it might be the best move, but if you're - - if you have such a thin staff and you're trying to run 56 different campaigns all at once. Then yeah, I think having Rick Wiley is smart.

BOLLING: But Trump is (inaudible)?

GUILFOYLE: Somebody who is aggregated.

PERINO: Yes, sir.


BOLLING: And he -- wasn't he just with the Cruz campaign? Didn't he just have --



GUILFOYLE: Interesting.


GUILFOYLE: Yeah. The things you learn on "The Five." OK. Greg, what do you have to offer to this complicated situation?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: It's very hard to call on after these two people, because they both.


GUTFELD: . pretty much explained everything. I mean it's -- I can't think of anything other than this.

GUILFOYLE: They're trying to confuse people then.

GUTFELD: All right, so -- OK. I think what Cruz did -- and by the way, as you know, of the 17 candidates, I think Cruz for me was -- was my least favorite, which makes it really hard for me to compliment him on the fact that he was -- you know, he had a great strategy. And he worked his butt off, which is what Trump didn't do. What Cruz did was he exposed a complacency that Trump had that was based on, I think the free media. I think that he was like a junkie who relied on the media as a central advantage. They were his subsidy. And when you know when you get -- when you're on welfare, you're less likely to go to work. And I think that's kind of what happened here with Trump as he became so comfortable, and he still surround himself with a very small group of people who agree with him. And I think that -- if somebody was there, and somebody, you know, kick him in the pants and said you got to get -- you kind to look at this stuff, and that -- it would have been a different thing. So I think what happened was Cruz was able to kind of take advantage of Trump's complacency and stole his lunch.

GUILFOYLE: Well, now you see is you have to kind of farm it out and (inaudible) because you think trying to do everything, you know, himself with the small group. And now, like you said Dana, you've got to run all these different, you know, these different campaigns at once. You've got to get some troops.

PERINO: And he also has -- I think he does run a risk of a narrative -- a pattern that's becoming a narrative. So remember to -- I think it was two or three weeks ago when Donald Trump went to Washington, D.C. and he had a meeting with lots of influential people like (inaudible) type of people. And then he went over to RNC.


PERINO: . and had a meeting. Well, reportedly in that meeting, Donald Trump got frustrated with the staff and said, "You guys need to get on the stick, and make sure that we're doing this delegate process correctly." Nobody confirmed that out of the RNC, and I don't even think the Trump campaign commented on it. But, then -- so they go to Colorado, and this happens, and then the blame game starts. And so -- instead of just being the leader that says, OK, we need to do better. I'm going to do better. We're going to do better in all of these states, and here's I'm gonna do it. The narrative is, he blames people and that is not necessarily what people are looking for.

WILLIAMS: So let me undercut the whole narrative.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Then we got to go.

WILLIAMS: Which is, that Trump has 45 percent of the delegates, but he has only 37 percent of the votes of the Republican Party.


WILLIAMS: Oh, my goodness. You mean this rigged system is actually benefiting Donald Trump? Amazing! In fact, Ted Cruz is winning right now because he is getting people like Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell who don't even like him. So they're going to the same thing you're going through. They don't like Ted Cruz, but suddenly, yeah, well, (inaudible). And Ted Cruz is saying that Donald Trump's people are threatening republican state people right now, and he said that he thinks he's Michael Corleone, and he's a gangster. He said there's violence everywhere Trump goes. He -- Trump is opening himself to that line of attack from Cruz doesn't help Donald Trump.


BOLLING: First of all, you do know that Ted Cruz also has more delegates than he has the share of the votes.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, who has the lead?

BOLLING: As well, but also you know why that happens, it's because of the winner take all status. So if you just beat someone by a vote, you can take a lot of the delegate.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, correct.

GUILFOYLE: Like in South Carolina.

BOLLING: So that was Trump's idea. I mean --

WILLIAMS: I'm just saying those were the rules.


WILLIAMS: If you're going to say -- Eric, if you're going to say, I don't like the rules. These rules are bad.

BOLLING: You know --


WILLIAMS: Hey, how come you're winning by so like --

BOLLING: You and Dana.

WILLIAMS: You are getting even more.

BOLLING: . on a state level --

WILLIAMS: . benefit from the current set of rules.

BOLLING: I think he is trying to say that the state rules are rigged against him. They're not. They maybe or they may not be --

WILLIAMS: I was saying --

BOLLING: But that's not the fight though.

BOLLING: What's the fight?

BOLLING: The fight, the rigging at the RNC, that's the fight that everyone should have.

WILLIAMS: You mean at the convention.


WILLIAMS: Oh OK, because they're not rigged now in the states.

BOLLING: You have --

WILLIAMS: I don't get that there's any --

BOLLING: You have a rules committee member today, on TV saying 1,100 delegates; Donald Trump will be the nominee.

WILLIAMS: By the way, I would agree with that.


WILLIAMS: Do you know why? Because everybody thinks that if he gets close, you can't be denied, one, because there would be a revolt. But secondly, guess what --

BOLLING: I'll go on record.

WILLIAMS: He is going to put you on --

BOLLING: I'll go on record and say that he has 1101 delegates. They're going to still fight. They're going to still fight --



WILLIAMS: But you know what? He can win enough people through persuasion. What was it the famous one that Ronald Reagan, that he said, "Come on, I'm going to get John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart to come with me. We'll talk to you about this."

GUILFOYLE: Right, right, right. But all we -- we didn't have time for this, but Charles Krauthammer said the person has ultimately benefitting from all of this is --

PERINO: Of course.

BOLLING: Hillary Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: Hillary Clinton. Greg.

GUTFELD: I've got to say, I have an idea for opening a gym in D.C. and calling it house of reps.


GUILFOYLE: OK, that's awesome. Drink your muscle milk. We'll be back after break, because ahead on "The Five," another Fastest 7 is coming your way. But first, they're back. Five years after getting evicted from lower Manhattan, the Occupy Wall Street Movement is regrouping. Greg would hope to explain the presidential race, you got that, right? Next.


GUTFELD: Well, they're getting the band back together. I speak of that soiled diaper called Occupy Wall Street, now reforming to help Bernie Sanders win New York. I hope they play the old hits.




GUTFELD: Get your freedom on. Nice.

Media darlings OWS infested American parks five years ago, handing romantic imagery like that to soothe a reporter's lefty pangs. Yet the movement, and it was a movement in more ways than one, turned rank. Its infantile agitation having no solution for what they wish to slay, sliding into an orgy of trash, vandalism, drugs and assault. A media that so desperate to find one racist sign at a Tea party, somehow missed all this. Parks like New York's Zuccotti became a leftist microcosm once in control it went to a hell at hemp basket. With only feeling and no fact leftists can only ruin. See de Blasio's New York or Rahm's Chicago.

Which is why OWS is perfect for Sanders, who enjoyed decades untethered to reality or history. Both compared America to some fictitious utopia, one that quickly becomes Venezuela without hope or toilet paper. Neither OWS or Sanders make anything, so they don't get that wealth isn't spread by government, but traded by those who create it.

When they rage against profit it is like a caveman shaking his fist at the rain. You need rain, you dumb caveman. But the media treats Sanders the same way it treated OWS. No vetting whatsoever, resulting in a socialist with no idea how to fight terror or debt and giving Hillary a run for her life.

All right, Eric, is this exactly what Bernie Sanders needs?

BOLLING: I'll tell you, and here's what he got everything he needed today.


BOLLING: Bernie Sanders is still trying to do well in New York. It ends up with OWS, also gets the transit workers union to endorse him, and then the third thing happened. Verizon employs 36,000 Verizon employees walk off the job today. Bernie Sanders very astutely, smartly showed up at that picket place and stood up on a soap box and became their hero as well.


BOLLING: They endorse him as well. It's falling into his lap. Meanwhile, if you really want to know what's going on, take a look at the post today, they had an exclusive talking about ISIS putting out a hit on moderate Muslims, Huma Abedin is one of them may named --


BOLLING: This is unbelievably -- just pick that up and you -- that's what really matters.


BOLLING: Not these guys playing --



GUTFELD: But sadly gain a terror is not his wheel house. His wheel house is basically, Occupy Wall Street.

PERINO: It's like -- if you're considering voting for him, just do yourself a favor and read the transcript of his interview with the New York Daily News. Because when it comes to those important issues of fighting terror, and certainly ISIS knows how to get headlines, they can name Huma Abedin, you know they're gonna get press. I mean, they're very good at --


PERINO: At media manipulation. He also got today, the endorsement of Senator Merkley from Oregon, which was a big get for him. In addition here, I don't know the exact number, but Hillary Clinton is way up over Bernie in the general election vote for New York State by like 52 to 45, something like that. But Bernie Sanders is at 45 percent approval with under 25. So if these people registered to vote and if he can mobilize them to actually vote on Tuesday, then he might have the ability to pull off the upset in New York State and that would be huge.

GUTFELD: Maybe he's targeting Huma because of the Anthony Weiner.


GUTFELD: And then we have finally something in common with ISIS. We don't like Anthony Weiner -- nothing. Sanders is --


GUTFELD: He's a logical candidate, right? Because he likes OWS, thinks America is the problem which is why he has a blind eye to terror.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm surprised this twisted, you know, union, a marriage between them didn't, you know, happen sooner. This is sort of a no-brainer. They want to tag on to like, you know, that burn.


GUILFOYLE: . coattails, because they became pretty much useless movement like you said in the camps. There are rapes happening, assaults, all the crimes, crimes against women, but they're concerned about guys working, you know, 9:00 to 5:00 on Wall Street. I mean, it is unbelievable, because, and now they're jealous also of the attention of other groups like Black Lives Matter.

GUTFELD: Yeah, and you how powerful Bernie Sanders is, Juan? Now Hillary, apparently, is showing up at Verizon.


GUTFELD: Yes, like --

PERINO: Outside of the store, though.

GUTFELD: Outside of the store -- yeah.

PERINO: But the visual is probably not.

WILLIAMS: But you know --

PERINO: . as good.

GUTFELD: She's trying to take out a new plan.

WILLIAMS: But you know is that though --

GUILFOYLE: You need a metro card to get there.

WILLIAMS: So because they're having a debate tomorrow, right?

GUTFELD: Right, yeah.

WILLIAMS: So Bernie has to shift his rally from yesterday -- from tomorrow to today. He's having a rally today. She's having a rally meanwhile in the Bronx. So you said there's no scrutiny of Bernie Sanders by the press. I think the New York Daily News, which today, endorsed Hillary.


WILLIAMS: . is quite critical of Bernie, which is interesting because, you know, there's union workingman's paper in New York, supposedly. And they're saying, hey, this guy is unprepared.


WILLIAMS: He's not --

GUILFOYLE: They couldn't endorse him after what happened with the interview and the transcript. I mean, it obvious a little bit.

WILLIAMS: They did it. But I must say what's interesting to me is, gosh, you know we're approaching mayday, right? And in D.C. right now, you got a group that's protesting in front of the capital, right?


WILLIAMS: Democracy s spring or whatever. Now we get Occupy Wall Street as you say revving up the band one more time. And Bernie, Bernie is riding high. I mean, we can put him down all you want.


WILLIAMS: But the fact is.

PERINO: And he also --

WILLIAMS: . Bernie is doing pretty good.

PERINO: He also said and they're quite serious that they could, they plan to challenge Hillary Clinton on the floor of their -- that convention. So it's going to be a summer of --

GUILFOYLE: Pretty interesting.

GUTFELD: It really is.

PERINO: It's pretty interesting to live through it.

GUILFOYLE: Let's do another live show tomorrow night at 11:00 to 12:00.

PERINO: Oh, I love that idea.


GUILFOYLE: It's cool.

GUTFELD: That's a great idea.


GUTFELD: I'll put that at the flagpole.

GUILFOYLE: Call the producers.

GUTFELD: All right. Ahead, Hillary Clinton apologizes for joking about black people with New York City's mayor -- just kidding. She is putting all the blame on Bill de Blasio. That's next.


WILLIAMS: It was a joke, a lot of people just -- well, didn't find funny.


BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Sorry, Hillary. I was running on C.P. time. That's not -- I don't -- I don't like jokes like that, Bill. That's not funny.




WILLIAMS: I'm not sure what Hillary Clinton and New York's mayor were thinking when they did that gag about colored people time. De Blasio has dismissed the backlash, and now Hillary is deflecting it, passing the blame to the mayor. She tells "It was Mayor de Blasio's skit. He has addressed it and I will defer to him because it is something that he has already talked about." Today, she gave a racially charged speech of her own before Al Sharpton's National Action Network.


CLINTON: White Americans need to do a much better job of listening when African-Americans talk about the seen and unseen barriers you face every day. We need to recognize our privilege and practice humility. Rather than assume our experiences are everyone else's experiences. I believe that democrats have a special obligation. If we're going to have African - Americans to vote for us, we cannot take you or your vote for granted.


CLINTON: We can't just show up at election time and say the right things and think that's enough.


WILLIAMS: This is really interesting speech. In fact, she spoke to the ongoing controversy about her husband's comments to Black Lives Matter, when he said in his opinion the 94 crime bill was a good bill had to support the black community. Today, in the New York Times you have people right and say, oh, that's a miscalculation. It was a misstatement. In fact, there was not really a complete support in the black community for that crime bill, even though crime was running rampant to the black community. And now, today, she says, yeah, you know, we need to reform the criminal justice system in order to end mass incarceration. So that's the way Dana that she seems to be responding to this potential problem, liability with the black vote that is so essential to her success.

PERINO: She -- her biggest accomplishment this year could be that she would be able to do what no other republican has been able to do up to now. And that is to unify the Republican Party. I find her comments today in the tone of it to be the one that motivates me to say, I -- never Hillary. I can't. There's no way. And part of it is you can't imagine having to deal with that for eight years. And let's go back to blaming that joke on Mayor de Blasio. It goes back to what I was saying on the A-block, if the narrative is you always blame somebody else after she was obviously a participant in it, she learned her lines and she tries to throw the mayor under the bus for it? I think that's despicable.

WILLIAMS: Well, I always, you know, I defer all responsibility for Gutfeld's jokes.


WILLIAMS: I'd never say its fun.

PERINO: That's smart.

WILLIAMS: But what do you think?

GUTFELD: She -- (inaudible) just throw Mayor de Blasio under the bus, she threw all white people under the bus.


GUTFELD: And the thing is she does not speak for all white people.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

GUTFELD: I would definitely -- that would speak for all salamanders. She has absolutely no idea what is going on the real world. And every time I'm about to defend her --


GUTFELD: Back just --its' just like, yes. Now I -- I am so convinced that if Trump gets the nomination, he can beat her. When you hear that voice, you go there is no way in a debate that she's gonna make it, because that is --that's just makes my head explode. And she, you know, she had guts. She should have reminded, the present day, black leaders there that it was the black leaders of yesteryear that wanted the violent crime prevention act that ironically says the (inaudible) people that this present day black leaders might actually know.

WILLIAMS: Well, Kimberly --

GUILFOYLE: So, that'll be true?

WILLIAMS: Kimberly, so Bill Clinton says, "Well, maybe I should have listened more instead of just snapping at these young people with Black Lives Matter." And telling them that, in fact, he was stopping crime in the black community.

GUILFOYLE: Well, right, he should have done that, because that's, in fact, what happened. And that was a good crime bill, and it was necessary at the time. So now they're trying to change the narrative.

And the fact of the matter is, it is insulting. When you hear them make these caustic, you know, comments, it's so broad and so grotesque. And to make that kind of assumption and to really say that so that she knows and is going to sit there and castigate all white people and what they have in their hearts and what they're thinking and what they're feeling. It's just -- it's offensive. Why would you want someone that would make that kind of statement, assuming bias and racism on your part, to represent you? I don't think so.

WILLIAMS: I just -- I think I'm hearing something different, Eric, because I didn't think she was speaking for all white people. But I must say...

BOLLING: No, no. The one line that she said: "We need to recognize our privilege." Wow, there it is, white privilege. That's exactly what she was saying. We do? I agree with Greg. She doesn't speak for me. She shouldn't speak for all white people. She should speak for herself. That was pandering at its finest. She was just pandering right to the audience, right to the black vote, because she needs it. She has it already. I don't even know why she even needs to do it.

GUILFOYLE: Has 90 percent already.

BOLLING: At -- what she really should do is recognize that maybe the '94 crime bill wasn't as good as they all thought it was going to be and say, "We thought it was at the time. We don't think it is any more. We need to reform."

WILLIAMS: That's what she said.

BOLLING: No, no, no, no. She's not. She's not pushing back from it. Do you know who pushed back from it? There is a black congressman today. And I wish I remembered his name. He said he voted in favor of the '94 Crime Bill. He was there 22 years ago. He said, "I made a mistake. It was the worst vote I've ever made. And I right recognize I should not have voted, and I would not vote for it again." She can do the same thing.

WILLIAMS: You know what I think? Know what I think?

BOLLING: She can admit she was wrong.

WILLIAMS: I think that's pandering. You know why? It was the right vote at that time.


WILLIAMS: And you have to compromise...


WILLIAMS: And Hillary Clinton should not be apologizing for it, in my opinion.

BOLLING: ... endorsement. But if he doesn't believe it was the right vote, he can say that he made a mistake.

WILLIAMS: I think he's pandering to Black Lives Matter right now.

GUTFELD: Juan, the good news is Hillary there did tell the black families that she is tracking down the script writer as...

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUTFELD: To bring to justice.

GUILFOYLE: Who pushed (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? Who pushed the video?

WILLIAMS: We've got to go. What's the best way to defeat ISIS once and for all? Rock star Bono has got an idea: send in the clowns. I'm not joking. That's coming up in "The Fastest Seven" with Eric, next.


BOLLING: All right. Before we get to this, President Obama right now is in a national security meeting at the CIA. When he does come out and exit, we will take that. So in the meantime, time for...


GRAPHIC: Fastest 7


BOLLING: ... "The Fastest Seven Minutes on Television. Three enduring stories, seven astir minutes, one apposite host. Apposite, apt, able.

GUILFOYLE: And a partridge in a pear tree.

BOLLING: First up, is this a joke? Rock star Bono testified on the Hill yesterday and had some advice for senators on how we can win the war against ISIS with humor. Watch.


BONO, MUSICIAN/ACTIVIST: Don't laugh, but I think comedy should be deployed. Because if you look at national socialism and DAISH and ISIL, this is the same thing. We've seen this before. We've seen this here before. Very vain. You speak violence, you speak their language. But you laugh at them when they're goose-stepping down the street, and it takes away their power. So I'm suggesting that the Senate send in Amy Schumer and Chris Rock and Sacha Baron Cohen.


BOLLING: Is he kidding?

GUTFELD: Well, you know what's funny, is he's making a very -- a point that sarcasm and ridicule are very important elements in humiliating something evil.

However, a gun and a missile is probably better when it comes to ISIS. But you've got to remember, he's a fantastic defender of American capitalism. He's a free-market mind; he's a smart guy.

I used to think that pop culture could beat radical Islam. Until now when we start seeing guys immersed in pop culture still joining ISIS. Young guys in America that are joining ISIS. So they do -- they do know who Amy Schumer is, and they do know who Chris Rock is; and they're still going to Syria.

My feeling is that any kind of ideology which -- in which a goal trumps reason, you've just got -- you've got to go after them.

BOLLING: Amy Schumer, Chris Rock or Sacha Baron Cohen, I'm not interested.

GUILFOYLE: Instead of volunteering, there's other ways to kill their funny bone, if you know what I mean.

GUTFELD: He should have said U-2 would go.

BOLLING: Yes. Talk to ISIS.


GUILFOYLE: Big Bono fan, not sure. I'm not on board with this. I like his, like, free market principles and ideas about the economy. I'll leave it at that. And his humanitarianism. Wonderful.

PERINO: I think he was joking about sending them. But I think he was the point about ridicule, and that's a real check on power.

I think when I was part of the Broadcasting Board of Governors, we supported this group that made fun, like a "Daily Show" version that made fun of the Iranian government. And it was pretty effective for the people in Iran that wanted to see something that would actually help them fight back against their government.

But also, I think that this loses the fact that he -- Bono had a very long op-ed in "The New York Times" yesterday. It was a very thoughtful piece about the refugee crisis and how it's destroying Europe and how something more needs to be done.

The only thing he didn't say in that op-ed is that there has to be some sort of solution at the source that always gets missed.

WILLIAMS: I've got to tell you, I disagree. I think satire is so effective, so effective. In fact, in a lot of these Middle East autocracies, they can't stand it when they come out with a Jon Stewart-type character who starts mocking, you know, all the princes and the corruption in their system. I think that's more effective than anything.

And by the way, I think the reason you can't just make the sand glow by bombing ISIS is that it's on the Internet; it's like it's metastasized. It's not just in Syria; it's not just in Iraq. It's now in Africa. You've got people, as you often point out, who are now among the refugees in Europe. It's all over. You've got to fight it. And I think humor is a very effective tool.

BOLLING: Let's just say it's not a wise decision to do an "al-Baghdadi is so fat" joke.

WILLIAMS: Why not? Well, not here, yes. We can do it.

BOLLING: Leave it and move right on.

Let's move on to this one. He sang about it in his most famous song, "Everything I Do."




BOLLING: Well, except everything Bryan Adams does is only for certain people. The singer just canceled a performance in Mississippi, because the state's new law, he said, quote, "I find it incomprehensible that LB -- LGBT citizens are being discriminated against in the state of Mississippi. I cannot in good conscience perform in a state where certain people are being denied their civil rights due to their sexual orientation. Therefore, I'm canceling my 14 April show at the Mississippi Coast Coliseum. Using my voice I stand in solidarity with all my LGBT friends to repeal this extremely discriminatory bill."

He did just perform in Egypt, though, where it's a crime to be gay.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Picking and choosing, I guess. I don't know, where the sales low, too? Did anyone check that? I don't know. I mean, it's his right, his prerogative to do so, and then people decide if they want to support him.

BOLLING: What are your thoughts on this, Juan?

WILLIAMS: You know, he's a Canadian. He's not -- he's not an American. So I think that weakens my argument. Because I was going to say, you know, if you're an American, you have more feeling about the idea of rights and protecting rights here in American society. But he's a Canadian, so...

GUTFELD: Where they go after free speech.

WILLIAMS: Right. So I don't know. I feel like I'd better be quiet.

GUILFOYLE: We're in a quandary here.

GUTFELD: Great point. That's a great point. He should be boycotting Canada over their -- over going after people who say the wrong words about Islam.

Can we enact this law in New York so Bryan Adams will not play here? Because that would make me happy.

But, you know, this happened with the National Scout Jamboree in 2013. There are bands that played there who then, who boycotted the Boy Scout jamboree because of their position on gay rights but played at the Dubai International Jazz Festival, which if you're gay, it's a crime.

BOLLING: Dana, final thoughts on this topic?

PERINO: Economic pressure on these governments, the state governments that are facing this right now. Mississippi is one, North Carolina another, Georgia recently, as well. It's not just entertainers but corporations that are putting a lot of pressure on the governors. But yet they do international business in places. So I actually think that's a pretty effective argument to make against these guys.

But Bryan Adams, you know, I loved that song when I was younger. But I can't stand it now.

BOLLING: Stay right there. Dana, you're first on this one. And finally Zucker-punched. Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg taking a shot at Donald Trump.


MARK ZUCKERBERG, FOUNDER OF FACEBOOK: As I look around, and as I travel around the world, I'm starting to see people and nations turning inward against this idea of a connected world and a global community.

I hear fearful voices calling for building walls and distancing people they label as others. It takes courage to choose hope over fear. Instead of building walls, we can help people build bridges. And instead of dividing people, we can help bring people together.


BOLLING: All right. Trump's campaign punching right back. His spokeswoman today said she'll take Zuckerberg seriously when he gives up all his private security, moves out of his posh neighborhood and comes to live in a modest neighborhood near a border town.

Dana, Zuckerberg needs a big global footprint for Facebook to continue to be profitable.

PERINO: He is making a business decision. But he also -- we know that he likes to dabble in politics a little bit. He's gotten involved -- he's gotten involved in several issues, one being immigration. Another being education. If he was trying to be subtle there, he's about as subtle as a flying axe head. Everybody knew what he was talking about.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting.

BOLLING: Your thoughts on the Zuckerberg comment and Donald's point back?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think he has business interests, but actually, I think he's right when he says that he sees an inclination for people to turn inward, to close down, to not talk. An anti-immigrant fervor now spreading globally. So I think he's speaking a very important message. I really -- I salute him.

BOLLING: And I think Trump was getting at the people who are anti-gun, these celebrities, but they have security.

GUILFOYLE: Right. I thought that was a great response back. Was that Hope Hicks? I thought it was good, really good.

GUTFELD: Isn't it on Facebook, aren't you required to have your name? Isn't there something, you have to sign up? I mean, so it's a bit hypocritical here.

All of the politics that he engages in are aimed at raising his profile. That's what I've noticed about him, whether it's -- I think after the movie "The Social Network" made him look so bad, he's been trying to make himself look so good in front of the press and the media. So I think he cherry picks these issues to build up his profile.

BOLLING: All right. We'll leave it right there.

If you have something to apologize for, we've got the perfect way to say you're sorry. I'm sorry. That's next on "The Five."



MATT LE BLANC, ACTOR: Ross, I know you're pissed at me, but we have to talk about this.

DAVID SCHWIMMER, ACTOR: Actually, we don't.

LE BLANC: Fine. OK, fine. But I've got to say, technically, I didn't even do anything wrong.

SCHWIMMER: What? You didn't do anything wrong?

LE BLANC: I said I didn't technically.

SCHWIMMER: But let's put aside the fact that you accidentally picked up my grandmother's ring and you accidentally proposed to Rachel.

LE BLANC: Can I just stop you right there for a second? When people do this, I don't really know what that means.


PERINO: Apologies aren't easy, and sometimes you just have to step up and say you're sorry. If that's a hard thing for you to do, here are six tips you can follow. This is scientifically proven now. They say they have the key to a perfect apology.

Express regret, explain what went wrong, acknowledge responsibility, declare repentance, offer a repair, and request forgiveness. I mean, this is a little bit too much for me. But these are not, like, new tips, Kimberly, but now they're scientifically proven.

GUILFOYLE: I like this. Very helpful, because sometimes people have a hard time saying. It's like how do you say sorry? How do you apologize? What's the right way to phrase it? I think if you can hit, like, three of those hard.

PERINO: Not all six.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it might be tough. Well, wait, I've got some more. Stand by.

PERINO: And I think you've got to do it fast, Juan. You can't, like, wait.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, the thing that's so interesting, this research, because what they said was the root of this is, we all need positive self- identity. We all therefore justify bad behavior.

PERINO: You actually read this?

WILLIAMS: Yes. It seems to me like who would do research? I mean, you know, look, say you're sorry. Take responsibility. Move on. Right? But they went -- so I thought, well, what is the root of this? And it says everybody justifies bad behavior.

PERINO: You're shaking your head.

GUTFELD: OK. For one thing, let's start with the "Friends" segment. Men never apologize to men. There's an underlying believe that, if you screwed up, almost said something else, you kind of just go, "Whatever" and everybody forgets about it. I don't care what happens. No one apologizes.

The entire industry of flowers and chocolate and jewelry is based on male to female apology. It's like going to the gym. I do it three times a week, at least three times a week. Apologies are designed to sell flowers.

PERINO: Sometimes your apologies get expensive.

GUTFELD: Oh, boy.

GUILFOYLE: Is there anything you'd like to apologize for now?

GUTFELD: Yes. I'm out of apologies. I'm in debt.

PERINO: That theory about men not apologizing to other men might be why a lot of people were so frustrated with President Obama early on in the administration.

BOLLING: Wow. That's unbelievably prescient on your part.

I just wrote something down. So maybe it would go something like this. "I'm sorry, America, for promising to fundamentally change you. It's my fault. I won't let it happen again. I'll try to never let this happen, and I promise to retire in a few months. Will you please forgive me?" I just hit five of the six.

GUILFOYLE: And you know what?

PERINO: Well done.

GUILFOYLE: And sometimes sorry just isn't good enough. Right? That happens.

PERINO: Long memories.

All right. "One More Thing," up next.

GUTFELD: There is a joke about him wearing...


GUILFOYLE: Woo, that was a close one, Greg.

All right. It's time now for "One More Thing." Juan.

WILLIAMS: I love this one, because you know I'm a baseball nut. So 91- year-old George H.W. Bush threw out the first pitch yesterday at the Houston Astros game. The 41st president, a lefty, threw to the Astros starting pitcher, Collin McHugh.

And you've got to remember that last year, even with a broken vertebrae in his neck, the former president was able to throw out the first pitch before a playoff game of his beloved Astros against the Kansas City Royals. Way to go, Mr. President.

WILLIAMS: Nice job, Juan. You're delightful.

PERINO: Two quick updates, both online. First, I had a chance to read the Ron Fournier's book. It just came out yesterday. It's called "Love That Boy." And it is about his very special relationship with his son and his entire family. And I did a Q&A with him that ran on that you can check out. We'll put it on our Facebook page. I encourage all parents to look at it. Even if you're not a parent. I learned a lot from it. I really, really loved it.

And then also, you can check out -- I was the first person to be interviewed for a new podcast called Autonomous. Autonomous Mag is by Steve Krakauer (ph), and I think we have a little sound bite.


PERINO: Politics is interesting and it's fun and it's important; but it's not who we are as people. And so I keep reminding myself. Politics is what I do. It is not who I am.


PERINO: And that was in response to a question about something I learned from President Bush. So both those things on our Facebook.

GUILFOYLE: Very nice. All right. And good luck to him with that new podcast.

OK. I just have some thank-yous, because I had the most amazing time. I was lucky to be invited to speak at Cornell University. They could not have been nicer. Faculty, staff, the students, and the phenomenal Young Republicans there. I was able to talk about my background and my great job here at FOX News, working with everyone here on "The Five."

GUTFELD: Where are you in that?

GUILFOYLE: I'm in the red dress. There you go.

I would like to personally thank the Triad Foundation for sponsoring it and the Park family. That is Roy Park right there, his wife Tetlo (ph). Chip and Laura. This is the reaction after my speech. I guess Dave Feldman liked it. It went over well, Greg.

GUTFELD: Somebody call security.

GUILFOYLE: Almost as good as the Villages. And the students, Calla (ph) and I were trying to get there in the rain and getting soaked on. Then almost threw up on the plane.

But then on the way back we got an upgrade. Thank you so much to Hannik (ph) Aviatoin, Roger Dennis, Neil Fillman (ph), Warren Brown for doing that and the students: Brandon Thompson, Mark Le Pointe (ph), Robby Dunbar (ph), Chris Rodriguez. You guys are phenomenal. Had the best time.

Check me at Greta tonight. I'm going to be with my good friend Greta at 7:30 talking campaign politics. Don't miss it.


BOLLING: Good stuff. Congratulations.


BOLLING: OK. So I want to bring you cool shows that I've been watching. Stumbled upon "Vinyl," a great show about '70s rock 'n' roll, the whole business of rock 'n' roll. It's been fantastic. This season's finale is this Sunday, but take a look who's in this series, as well. Watch.


RON JEREMY, ACTOR: Yes. You face your fears. You face your fears. You've got to face your fears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I got it.

BO DIETL, ACTOR IN "VINYL": Richie -- Richie, what he's trying to say is you've got to face your fears.


BOLLING: Our good friend Bo Dietl, who's...

PERINO: Loved it.

BOLLING: ... on the network all the time. Check out "Vinyl." It's a great new show.

GUILFOYLE: Regular on "Hannity." He's phenomenal. I can't get enough of that guy.

GUTFELD: All right. Quickly.


GUTFELD: Greg's Hygiene Tips


GUTFELD: All right. Do you know the one thing that drives me crazy when you're at a resort or at a hotel pool? Is when people use the lounges, but they don't put down a towel. Like these two clowns.




GUTFELD: I go to get my rest, and they're lying there. Clearly, they've been out all night partying. And they're not even putting a towel there. I believe that's Jeremy Piven right there, and that's Andy Dick.

GUILFOYLE: Yes? Oh, I thought it was Alec Baldwin.

GUTFELD: No. Alec Baldwin, he had to shave his back. . There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.

GUTFELD: You're terrible.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. All right. Well, another good one. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" next.

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