Donald Rumsfeld on the impact of Trump's Israel decision

This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," December 6, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: Sean, thanks so much. And welcome to "The Angle." News breaking on multiple fronts you will not want to miss a single minute of the show tonight. Al Franken's career on the ropes as a tsunami of Democratic senators are now demanding that he step down.

In a bold and historic moved by the president, moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem recognizing it as the capital of the Jewish state sparking vows of violent protest across the Muslim world. We will talk about it in a rare interview with former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Don't miss this.

And you want to stay until the end of the show tonight where I will deliver a special message on Time magazine's farcical person of the year choice.

But first, the desperate political warfare of the left. That's the focus of tonight's Angle.

I'm going to explain to you what is really behind all these calls on Capitol Hill suddenly for Al Franken to resign from the Senate. At last count 34 Democratic senators, look at them all there, are demanding that Franken step down in the wake of a string of harassment allegations that we've been hearing about now for days.

Now, before you join the march to the castle to capture the monster, I have a word of caution. They've come down with a sudden case of feverish morality, but what it really is, is nothing more than a political calculation by the Dems.

Look, they have two paths to destroy the president. The first is the Mueller investigation. We've been talking about how that is corrupted of course. Last night with Jeannie Reed, yet another prosecutor who shouldn't be on this case. We broke that story exclusively last night on the show.

The second way they will try to destroy the Trump presidency is the war on women. They have now determined that it is worth sacrificing Franken just like they did John Conyers, throw him overboard to save the political titanic that is their party.

What does this do? It sets the precedent for the Democrats to try to drive Roy Moore from office should he win the Alabama Senate race. And two, this is the next step in the quest to impeach President Trump. The left is brilliant.

They are really, really smart at using the media to create a narrative and pounded all day long that quickly becomes a political bludgeon. The drumbeat of accusations in the call for scalps advance the false premise that the left are all about protecting women.

In fact, both Hollywood and the Democrats -- think about this. They have objectified and abused women for decades. And the abusers, let's not forget, have been celebrated, Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Matt Lauer, Kevin Spacey, Franken, Conyers, Weinstein, the list goes on and on.

So, I will tell you this tonight. Be wary of the lynch mob that you join today because tomorrow it could be coming your husband, your brother, your son, and yes, even your president. And that's THE ANGLE.

Now someone who knows Democrats in the games they play like this better than anyone, former speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich.


INGRAHAM: Mr. Speaker, good to see you. Welcome back from Rome. Let's talk about the games that are being played up there on Capitol Hill. There's all this newfound moral outrage about Al Franken and all these Democrats and John Conyers. What's really going on here fast forwarding to 2018?

NEWT GINGRICH, R-FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: First of all, I'm going to be very politically incorrect. Let's go back to who Franken was a month ago. He had the number one best-selling book. He was a very funny guy. Democrats loved him. He was doing fine and then things began to fall apart.

All of these nice people, none of whom have given back the money that they raised from Harvey Weinstein. None of whom have repudiated Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton. None of them seemed offended in the past.

Suddenly in a process of moral outrage creating a lynch mob, what you saw today was a lynch mob. Let's not have due process, let's not ask anybody in questions, let's not have a chance to have a hearing. Let's just lynch him because when we are done we will be so pure. We will feel so good.

This is a party which is losing his mind. I'm being very politically incorrect but let me just be clear. I think that the Gillibrand's and others are literally losing their minds. I think that Elizabeth Warren is losing her mind.

I think in this moment, the existential enthusiasm in the middle ages, people would walk around, and they would beat themselves. They would say I feel so much better now, I'm beating myself, look how bad I am.

These are people who grew up in a party which used to preach free love, which used to think that all of the hippies were wonderful. Used to think they were somehow representing the future and now they have suddenly curled into this weird puritanism which feels a compulsion to go out and lynch people without a trial.

INGRAHAM: I just want everyone watching to understand that Newt Gingrich is here tonight and he is standing up for Al Franken.

GINGRICH: Absolutely.

INGRAHAM: I've got to tell you I said last week that I didn't think he should resign because until -- I think the voters have to have a say on this. Pushing people out of office --

GINGRICH: I have not read all the details. To the best of my knowledge, even the one which broke today, the horrifying last straw which led Schumer to decide as a great New Yorker that he had to suddenly stand on the side of puritanism, which is actually by itself pretty bizarre.

As I understand it that occurred two years ago when he was a comedian. Al Franken was a comedian. Comedians often do weird things. He was in the entertainment business. He was doing the kind of things people in the entertainment business to. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see anything that they've said since he has done since he's a senator.

INGRAHAM: I tried to lose track. I think there are couple allegations. I think it's minor stuff.

GINGRICH: The point is we are in one of those weird American moments one running around lynching people feel so good.

INGRAHAM: It feels good.

GINGRICH: You go back and watch the YouTube of Clarence Thomas.

INGRAHAM: I was just going to say, my old boss.

GINGRICH: Who by the way it was wonderful and swore in Calista. Great moment. You go back, and you look at what he said about an electronic lynching, and then you look at what -- Conyers had a lot of good reasons to retire, but on the other hand no hearings, no witness.

INGRAHAM: There's no due process. If you are accused and you are a man, you are done.

GINGRICH: This is Venezuela, Cuba. This is every third world Banana Republic.

INGRAHAM: They're doing it because they want the power back. They have no substance, no issues. War on women, turning out the vote in 2018 and 2020.

GINGRICH: Not even sure.

INGRAHAM: I think it's get out the vote.

GINGRICH: Looking at each other and they go on my God --

INGRAHAM: They want to hit Roy Moore and they can't hit Roy Moore as long as Al Franken is hitting in the Senate. They can't say Donald Trump you campaign for Roy Moore.

GINGRICH: Let me ask in an appropriate question. What do we know about Doug Jones?

INGRAHAM: He's pro-abortion, that's what I know.

GINGRICH: He's pro-abortion, pro-gun-control. What if it turns out next Tuesday that Doug Jones actually had inappropriate date when he was 11 years old and it was really inappropriate, and he shouldn't even be on the ballot? Are the Democrats now going to jump up and go vote for Roy Moore? We are in a cycle which by any reasonable -- this is cultural anthropology time. This is watch the natives go nuts.

INGRAHAM: Speaking of nuts, let's go right to the Mueller investigation. All these prosecutors who I believe are politically compromised. One worked for the Clinton Foundation, Jeannie Rhee, she represented Ben Rhodes. We broke that last night and then she is now working for Mueller, Andrew Weissman, Peter Strzok, who was struck from the team.

But what about this investigation, and is this now not all tainted because Mueller did not remove these people or assemble the team with a political, seemingly at least on the surface, a political ax to grind against the president?

GINGRICH: I thought it was a very responsible person and then I watched two he began to hire. From his own law firm, which I believe gave 99.82 percent of its money to Hillary. I began to look at all of the stuff and I think about how they are doing this. Hillary's top aides clearly lied. Not a single indictment, not a single conviction.

INGRAHAM: Immunity it looks like.

GINGRICH: Hillary is never put under oath because you can't get them for perjury if they never swore. Now you get to -- it's time to go after Republicans. And I would say -- and I say this in all seriousness without making fun of the Franken situation.

If Hillary had not lost, we would be mired in the deepest level of corruption in American history. Mueller is corrupt, the senior FBI is corrupt. The system is corrupt and until you get back up and say -- realize how really truly corrupt this is, there's a sickness here.

My granddaughter, Maggie, got me to read a fascinating book about murder in Osage County in the 1920s. And everybody in the county law enforcement was corrupt and people came in, ironically, the FBI, the honest outsiders.

What do you now have is now at the county corruption at the level of Comey and Mueller in that entire system. I think it is frightening. If you believe in the rule of law and you believe in America, what we are learning is genuinely frightening.

INGRAHAM: Finally, Jerusalem, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, all the elites in Europe's are up in arms.

GINGRICH: So lovely to know that anti-Semitism is alive and well in Europe. The fact is the only country in the world, which is not allowed to name its own capital is Israel. I think what Trump did today was courageous.

I can also tell you having talked with vice president this afternoon this was systematic, it was thoughtful, it was strategic, and they believe it strengthens their hand in the end at getting to a peace agreement.

INGRAHAM: Newt Gingrich, it is always great to see you. Give my best to the ambassador. You are an ambassador's husband now.

GINGRICH: I am with the State Department calls a trailing spouse.

INGRAHAM: never trailing on our show. Great to see you, Newt.


INGRAHAM: Next, two top Trump insiders, Cory Lewandowski and David Bossie, join me with insights you're going to hear nowhere else.

"Time" magazine's person of the year is just another excuse to bash the president, come on. I will explain in a continuing ANGLE, stay there.


INGRAHAM: Steve Bannon makes no bones about it. He wants Mitch McConnell to go. I asked Mitch McConnell about that last week and he had choice words, you will recall, and a lot of other establishment Republicans as well.

Steve Bannon sees them as the biggest obstacle to passing the Trump agenda so he's lining up anti-establishment Senate candidates like the embattled Roy Moore in Alabama. Now McConnell is fighting back. He's calling Bannon's preferred candidates a bunch of losers.


SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL, R-KY., MAJORITY LEADER (via telephone): We are not going to lose any nominations to the kind of candidates that guy you were talking about endorsed. What's he's a specialist is nominating people who lose. If this is same element in the party that cost us a bunch of seats in 2010 and 2012. We changed our business model.


INGRAHAM: Well, to start this all out, I'm joined now by the authors of a soon-to-be huge best seller, so excited, just published, insider account of the campaign. I'm just going to call it the campaign. The book is "Let Trump Be Trump, The Inside Story of His Rise To The Presidency."

We welcome former Trump presidential campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, and deputy campaign manager, Dave Bossie. Dave and Cory, congrats on the book. Lovely blurbs on the back by the way. They are awesome.

I'm going to love this in Hannity's face that my blurb is before his. I love it. Little victories for me. I want to get into the book because it's fascinating. You get into the Trump personality, his management style, or lack thereof.

But I want to talk about this brewing fight between the establishment now and Bannon and the populist. I'm a populist, you guys are pretty populist conservatives. This dovetails into so much of what you wrote about in your book. Who survives despite? Is it Bannon or McConnell, or will it be a draw?

DAVID BOSSIE, FORMER DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR DONALD TRUMP: I think it's going to be very interesting. They will coalesce around some of the same exact candidates. It will be very funny that Steve Bannon is going to be staying these are the conservative populists, and they are.

And Mitch McConnell is going to be trying to take him for his own as establishment candidates and we will see, we have a tremendous crop of candidates out there whether it's Josh Mandella in Ohio, Josh Holly in Missouri.

All across the country tremendous conservatives running for office. We are going to pick up seats in November and it's going to be because of this Trump agenda that is so successful.

INGRAHAM: Corey, isn't McConnell moving a little bit to Trump now? You heard among chain migration. I interviewed him last week. Never heard him so conservative. He's like pushing chain migration for the race act.

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR DONALD TRUMP: The present is a force and this is why he's always so successful. He brings people kicking and screaming to his side.

INGRAHAM: He brought you guys.

LEWANDOWSKI: He knows it's the right thing to do and what mitch McConnell knows is that the American people said we are bringing Donald Trump to Washington for change in the people that are going to run '18 cycle, the Josh Mandellas' of the world, and I've been out campaigning for Josh, in full disclosure, he's going to come here to change the way Washington works.

INGRAHAM: The status quo doesn't want it changed.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's one of the reasons why this president has been frustrated over those last 10 or 11 months.

INGRAHAM: He gets a little impatient, don't you think?

LEWANDOWSKI: Because he was used to getting things done.

INGRAHAM: I don't blame him.

BOSSIE If you don't get things done you die. You go away, you failed. He came to Washington, wanting to kick in a couple of doors and knock over a couple of tests because Washington is broken.

And we in our campaign and in the books, we detail his passion in what he did to the American people. You were there last year when we were at the rallies and late at night, it's midnight, every night, night after night.

INGRAHAM: I want to talk about the moment that you learned you were not going to be working on the campaign anymore, Corey, because I've been there when I've been fired and it's not fun. You poured your heart and soul into that campaign.

I remember being with you -- I think it was February of 2016. People were hammering him day in and day out. I think I was there for Palm Beach Republican Club and the campaign was you and Hope Hicks.

That's why I kept where's the campaign? The campaign is up on the second floor somewhere and thinking there's going to be a big warm room. I open all the stores and if it is time the office and it's two people working away at computers. Emily, who are -- Corey, where's the campaign. You are putting your heart and soul into this and then Manafort comes in.

LEWANDOWSKI: Even at that time the campaign that there was three people, Donald Trump, Corey Lewandowski and Hope Hicks, there's two people too many. This whole campaign was Donald Trump, 99.99 -- and look, the rest of us had a very small world.

This was him, his gut, his tenacity, his dedication. I outworked every opponent in the primary, every person in that election, he just outworked. Did I have a little bit of a roll? I had a front row seat to history. It's either me or somebody else. You let Trump be Trump and he will be successful.

INGRAHAM: Trying to get you for pushing that. It was a target. Everyone's a target. The media hated Trump because that was the --


INGRAHAM: The night before the election when we were in Virginia, he actually said we are going to win it to me. But that night of the election -- it was like -- it was fun. This was kind of fun, guys. We had fun doing this, didn't we? And then the number started coming in. That is so cool.

BOSSIE: The early exit polls that we sought by the clock were just abysmal.

INGRAHAM: The left was exuberant.

BOSSIE: Hillary was popping champagne. We had to suffer through -- it's all in the book, "Let Trump be Trump." The behind the scenes of election night, the debate prep, it's phenomenal.

INGRAHAM: When you first met Donald Trump very quickly.

BOSSIE: I met Donald Trump in 2010. Steve Wynn (ph), my friend was helping me raise money for children's hospital here in Washington, D.C. for my son's heart surgeries and brain surgeries. It was a tremendous outpouring by Donald Trump to me. No fanfare, no press. He just is a kind, gentle guy.

INGRAHAM: We don't see enough of that.

BOSSIE: That's why we wrote about it in the book. We wanted people to understand that softer side of Donald Trump --

INGRAHAM: I've known him for a while.

BOSSIE: I introduced him to Corey.

LEWANDOWSKI: He's just so magnanimous. I spent so much time with him away for my family. He always was concerned about them and make sure that they were taking care of. That's not what most people do.

INGRAHAM: They are going to impeach him. They are going to try to impeach him, get out of office --

BOSSIE: It is a joke. We will win in November and we will have a great year legislatively. That will help us in November.

INGRAHAM: Now, Corey and Dave, I want you to stand by because former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who is a fan of this president is about to come on, join me exclusively. We will talk about Bush's criticism of him and the president's moves today in the Middle East. Thank you both for joining. We love the book. Fantastic, congrats. Stay right there.



PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I have determined that it is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver. Today, I am delivering.


INGRAHAM: Clinton promised to do it, Bush promised to do it, Obama promised to do it, Trump actually did it, and it took a lot of guts to make this move. Much of the Islamic world is warning of severe unrest and some are even calling for bloodshed and retaliation for that move.

Just as the administration tries to revive the Mideast process. Who better to tell us what this all means than former secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld. He is the author of a new memoir of his time in the Ford administration called "When the Center Held Gerald Ford and the Rescue of the American Presidency."

Mr. Secretary, it's great to see you. Haven't seen you in a while, thanks for stopping by tonight. I want to start with the big news of the day, the president's decision to move the capital of Israel to Jerusalem.

Why is everybody so upset about the timing given the fact that this has basically been on the books since 1995? A huge bipartisan support, most presidents, all the presidents I can think of said they were going to do it and they didn't.

DONALD RUMSFELD, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I guess the reason it's an issue is because there are countries around the world that would prefer that it had not been done. It's a no-brainer. It's the right thing to do. President Trump made the right decision, he stepped up and did it.

It's inevitable that there will be some criticism about it. But I just can't imagine any country in the world that doesn't believe that they have the right to have their capital where they wanted.

INGRAHAM: Here are some of the criticism that you mentioned. Put up the full screen. Each of says it would complicate Middle East matters, Jordan says potentially dangerous repercussions. Palestinians say dangerous consequences. Saudi Arabia, our ally in the region, detrimental to the peace process.

Turkey says it threatens to sever its ties with Israel. So, the pressure being ramped up both in the Middle East and in elite circles here in Washington and in Europe. Merkel says it's bad. Theresa May says it's bad. The pope weighed in saying we should keep the status quo. Is President Trump out there the man alone on this?

RUMSFELD: No, there are a lot of people who recognize that it's a rational thing to do and it's the right thing to do in my view. I think most of those countries will get over it. I think they probably have constituencies that feel they don't want Israel to be a part of that world and the vast majority of people in the world feel differently.

They do agree that Israel has a right to exist and that it should be a part of that region and that countries are inevitably going to decide where they want the capital.

INGRAHAM: But the point is they think that Trump is losing the bargaining chip, and to that I said we've been trying that with the bargaining chip and it hasn't really gone that well.

RUMSFELD: I agree. It's not surprising to me that all the countries you mentioned have an understandable need to vent modestly, but it will go away.

INGRAHAM: What about if something happens, more terrorism, attacks on embassies? Do you see a blowback on President Trump, like you provoked this, you pushed this, you pushed it when you didn't need to, you are a wrecking ball, Mr. Chaos. That's the line from the American media, many in the American media today, that this is just more Trump chaos.

RUMSFELD: I don't see it that way at all. It seems to me that the president made the right decision. He stepped up and did it. It's inevitable that there will be people who don't like it and will make noise about it, but the idea that it would lead to a stream of terrorism, I just don't see that at all.

INGRAHAM: I had Bill Richardson on the show last night, former U.N. ambassador, and he says he goes all over Europe and he hears very interesting things about the president. Let's watch.


BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I go overseas all the time. You know what they ask me, Laura? They say why is President Trump leaving --

INGRAHAM: Growing the American economy?

RICHARDSON: Why is he negative on the Transpacific Partnership? Why does he want out of NATO? Actually we are getting criticized by everybody.


INGRAHAM: The president is not popular, Mr. Secretary, he's not a popular leader and Obama was a rock star. Clinton was a rock star, and now we have this guy Trump, and Richardson and company, the elites here, it's ruining our image around the world.

RUMSFELD: That's just not true. The idea that the behavior or the conduct or the decisions or the positions being taken by the president of the United States are ruining our image around the world I think is a massive overstatement.

The reality is that the American people made a conscious decision to put in the presidency of the United States someone who had never served in government, military or civilian. I would have to search through history to see if there has ever been a president who had never served in government.

Now, why did they do that? They did that because they wanted someone who had never served in government, and that's what we've got. He does not behave like an establishment politician, and that is hard for establishment politicians and establishment media to accept because it's not the normal behavior of a seasoned politician who is the president.

INGRAHAM: Is part of it that these elites both in media and politics were so taken off guard and so embarrassed by the win of Trump? Because he took them on personally, he took them on substantively. He shattered all the perceptions of how you have to run a campaign. They were all left flatfooted.

RUMSFELD: And no one thought he would win, also. That's embarrassing. But the American people decided they wanted to roll the dice and put someone in that office who came from a different approach, with a different approach, and they got one.

And I was with a very active Democrat today, a wonderful classmate of mine from school, and very much a Democrat, and I said, what do you think about all this? And he said he hasn't done anything wrong, and he hasn't. He said, what do you think? And I said, well, the most important job of the senior executive is picking good people, and he has picked excellent people. The Supreme Court justice, Gorsuch, the vice president, Mattis at defense, his cabinet is as good a cabinet as any one of the two or three I served in. And it seems to me that he's picking very good people, sensible, sound, thoughtful people.

INGRAHAM: Parallels between the treatment of Reagan and the treatment of Trump in the media and by the elites especially, especially the European elites. I was in college. I remember Ronnie Raygun, and he's going to blow up the world, the no nukes movement. It was a big push against Reagan. He was going to blow up the world.

RUMSFELD: Exactly. And the elites in the society were dismissive of Reagan and didn't believe a movie actor and "Bedtime with Bonzo" could do the job, and he got in there and that wonderful, warm, sensible approach that he brought to governance won over an awful lot of people in our country, and he did a fine job.

INGRAHAM: The elites never accepted him until he was long gone. Now suddenly Reagan is their hero. They didn't like it much when he was in there.


INGRAHAM: Former President George W. Bush recently said Don Rumsfeld didn't make one blanking decision during his presidency. Stay there for Rumsfeld's reaction.


INGRAHAM: Welcome back to part two of our "Ingraham Angle" exclusive with Donald Rumsfeld. I ask him what the Bushs seem to have such a problem with him, and the many foreign policy challenges facing President Trump.


INGRAHAM: I want to move on to North Korea because obviously this continues to be such a difficult problem, seemingly intractable problem for the United States. We seem to be kind of relying a lot on China. And I was going back -- Donald Rumsfeld, warning China over military expansion in October of 2005.

RUMSFELD: That's a vicious thing to quote me.

INGRAHAM: You were on China watch way, way back, and you were concerned about the buildup of their military. And now China is flying missions right near our joint message with South Korea this week, coming very close to where we were, kind of sending a message, don't provoke North Korea. What about China, what we do with China right now in this situation?

RUMSFELD: It's a new period. China is a major power and certainly in that part of the world, and it strikes me that President Trump is focusing on the right thing, to be interested in the behavior on the part of the North Koreans. And I don't doubt for a minute that his effort to engage China on that subject is the right thing to do.

INGRAHAM: What are our choices?

RUMSFELD: Exactly. China is a reality. It's very active in the South China Sea. I think the world is --

INGRAHAM: What's a bigger threat to us, Russia or China? Who is the bigger threat to the United States, Russia or China?

RUMSFELD: I suppose I would answer the question by saying it depends on who is in the saddle in those countries and which one is more likely to make a mistake, because it's not in either of those countries' interest to engage us militarily. And it would only happen through an error. And my personal view is the fact that Trump -- I don't know President Trump, I've never met him that I can recall, but I certainly think that his demeanor in the presidency is a deterrent for those countries.

INGRAHAM: He seems to shoot from the hip kind of thing?

RUMSFELD: He's not tucked in and worried and cautious. He's a bold leader and he speaks his mind. And it seems to me that people sitting in the Kremlin and in Beijing seeing that are probably respectful of the fact that it's not in their interest to engage in things that are disadvantageous for the United States.

INGRAHAM: President Obama was over traveling in India and other countries last week, and he talked about dangerous currents of populism on the left and right. He kind of threw in the left and right in that we have a leadership vacuum in the United States when it comes to issues like climate change. Do you think it's wise to have a former president of the United States on the global scene, not so veiled criticism of the current president?

RUMSFELD: Wise, I don't know that I would use the word wise or unwise. It's unfortunate. Most people when they are overseas tend to be more supportive of our country and more critical of our country when they are here at home. And that's free play and free speech and one has to respect everyone's right to be critical, but most people do their criticism at home rather than abroad.

INGRAHAM: The Bushs over the years have taken some swipes at you. H. W. and W. George H. W. Bush, Bush 41, said that he at one point or another said that you and Cheney were basically pushing us into the Iraq war. And W. made a comment in a book that was published this month. He said the fact that there was any doubt in anyone's mind about who the president was blows my mind. Cheney and Rumsfeld didn't make one blanking decision.

RUMSFELD: He's right. I think that his father, who is getting up in years, made some comments about Cheney and Rumsfeld. Fair enough. He's always felt competitive, I think, to both of us. And it doesn't surprise me. But George W. Bush, who was president, was the decider. He was the president of the United States. Cheney wasn't, I wasn't. And he's exactly correct in his statement, and it was kind of I think a stiffing arm his father a bit by saying that. And I think it would be wrong to have said anything else.

Obviously he's talking about big decisions and he was the president and he made those big decisions. Cheney didn't and Rumsfeld didn't. And obviously Cheney gave advice to the president as vice president and I made an awful lot of decisions relating to the Defense Department, but not presidential level decisions.

INGRAHAM: You keep in touch with George W. Bush?

RUMSFELD: Not a lot. But I've seen him.

INGRAHAM: What's the relationship like?

RUMSFELD: It's good. It's fine. He's a thoughtful person and I thought he was a good president and I think the country was lucky he was there on 9/11. And he is doing some good things for the military now.

INGRAHAM: He sure is. The H.W. comments from that Meacham biography back in 2015, "I don't like what Rumsfeld did. And I think it hurt the president having his iron ass view of everything. I've never been that close to them anyway. There's a lack of humility, a lack of seeing what the other guy thinks. He's more kick ass and take names, take numbers. I think he paid a price for that. Rumsfeld was an arrogant fellow and self- assured swagger."

RUMSFELD: Interesting. He came into the Congress and basically wanted to be president. I was in Congress when he arrived. And he comes in and he barely was a congressman, he was constantly running for president. And he wanted to be president and he got it. He made it by becoming Reagan's vice president. And he was very ambitious and he felt competitive with me during that period. I tried to run for president at one point and obviously didn't become president. But that doesn't surprise me a bit. I don't get up and say things like that about other people myself.

INGRAHAM: Were you surprised he didn't vote for Trump and neither did George W.?

RUMSFELD: I didn't know that, but I have -- somebody told me they read that. I'm not surprised about Herbert Walker Bush. Nothing surprises me. On W., did he say he didn't vote?

INGRAHAM: He didn't vote for anyone apparently, none of the above.

RUMSFELD: He didn't vote for Hillary, I bet.


RUMSFELD: No. I voted for Trump and I wouldn't have voted for Hillary, and I get up in the morning and say to myself I think the country is better off today than if we had Hillary in the presidency.


INGRAHAM: And Time magazine claims its person of the year is about honoring women. I think it's about trashing Trump, and I'm going to explain in an Angle you will never want to miss.


INGRAHAM: Welcome back. Time's person of the year hits the person of last year. That's tonight's continuing Angle.

Time magazine has revealed its tiresome person of the year honor for 2017. It turns out that the person is not a person at all, but a group of so-called, drumroll please, silence breakers, the voices that started a movement. Those who turned the "Me Too" hash-tag into a rallying cry.

Among the silence breakers are actresses Rose McGowan and Ashley Judd who together exposed the bathrobe marauder, the pudgy Harvey Weinstein. The founder of the "Me Too" movement and a former FOX, now NBC anchor. Here's a bit of Time's person of the year, wait for it, video.


ROSE MCGOWAN, ACTRESS AND ACTIVIST: I'm here to give you permission to be angry. People are afraid, especially women who were conditioned since birth to be polite.

MEGYN KELLY, JOURNALIST: To be nice, to be kind, to be liked, to not make waves.


INGRAHAM: Well, there's a lot of B.S., which is what she said, and self-aggrandizement out there. And some of it is actually coming from the silence breakers themselves. By the way, how did Megyn Kelly manage to get into this whole deal on Time magazine? She must have had a better publicist than Gretchen Carlson.

Anyway, the Time piece traces the apex of the "Me Too" movement to the woman's part. Remember that delightful affair? It was a march that excluded conservatives, of course, and pro-life women, they don't count. It was almost entirely partisan in nature and an overall disaster. Anyway, a real shocker. It did not even mention, the Time magazine person of the year issue, Juanita Broaddrick or Paula Jones by name.

And of course they hit the president and of course the "Access Hollywood" tape, writing "That Donald Trump could express himself that way and still be elected president is part of what stoked the rage that fueled the women's march the day after his inauguration. It's why women seized on that crude word and the emblem of the protest that dwarfed Trump's inauguration crowd size."

Now, Time magazine just can't help but politicize pretty much everything. And apparently conservatives, they are not even allowed to oppose harassment or abuse, even though more often than not the abuse, especially lately, has occurred at the hands of liberals. Of course in that "TIME" video, actress Ashley Judd didn't dwell on that minor fact. Instead, she pats herself on the back.


ASHLEY JUDD, ACTRESS: I'm very proud. I'm very glad now that the story has been heard.


INGRAHAM: Well, I'm glad that these women have finally told their stories, for sure. They deserve to be heard. But when those stories are enmeshed with an obvious political agenda, it hurts both their cause and their credibility.

Compare the Ashley Judd we just heard, so proud, with the way she and the other women's marchers behaved at that landmark post inauguration protest. It wasn't exactly the candlelight procession. All I recall is the funny hats and the foul mouths.


ASHLEY JUDD, ACTRESS: I am a nasty woman.


JUDD: I'm not as nasty as a man who looks like he bathes in Cheeto dust.

I feel Hitler in these streets, a mustache traded for a toupee.

SCARLETT JOHANSSON, ACTRESS: It is vital that we all make it our mission to get really, really personal.

MADONNA, SINGER/SONGWRITER: I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House.


INGRAHAM: I like she did the Palm Olive liquid better. Anyway, does any of that help a woman being abused in the workplace or create a culture of respect? Of course it doesn't. You look like a bunch of fools.

And like the person of the year citation, this cause has been remade into a political weapon with one goal -- taking back political power. Trump and populist conservatives took it from them, and they want it back. In fact, this same dynamic is at play in many sexual harassment cases. Abusers enjoy wielding power over their victims. That's ironic, isn't it?

So let's not pretend for a moment that the Dems are experiencing some moral epiphany here. Are they prepared to posthumously reexamine the life of their liberal lion Ted Kennedy, disinvite Bill Clinton and his enabling wife from any future Democrat National Conventions?

Come on, let's agree once and for all politics should never define the struggle for basic human decency and respect. All people, regardless of their political persuasion, deserve that.

And incidentally, after making him their person of the year, last year President Trump was this year's runner-up. So not only did they fail spectacularly in not recognizing him as the single most influential person this year, they also missed the chance to sell an actual magazine or two, if that's something they even care --


INGRAHAM: That was a little bit of an abrupt cut off earlier, but you get the point.

Before we go, a reminder to pick up a copy of my new book, "Billionaire at the Barricades: The Populist Revolution from Reagan to Trump." A great, great Christmas gift, not coal in a stocking. Throw that in a stocking, you'll learn something, laugh too.

That is all the time we have this evening. Shannon Bream is up next, and as always is going to be a great show. By the time I get home, Shannon, I can usually watch the last half. I never miss it. DVR us if you missed it live, and we'll see you guys tomorrow. Shannon, take it away.

Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.