Does White House face trust deficit with American public?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 5, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Washington is getting a vote of no confidence from the American people. According to a new poll, more than half the people aren't very confident that government can solve problems like terrorism and the economy. Perhaps it's understandable that their distrust extends to many different areas including government preparation for dealing with potential threat like Ebola. On Meet the Press, Chuck Todd asked White House Senior Advisor Dan Pfeiffer about the trust factor.


CHUCK TODD, "MEET THE PRESS" HOST: One of your challenges though is a trust deficit that is been created over the last 18 months. Edward Snowden stealing NSA files, the VA faking wait times, IRS loosing emails, doesn't launch, U.S. Intelligence agencies underestimated ISIS, the DHS, the border failure and of course the Secret Service. Why should we trust to what you're saying about the CDC is able to handle this?

DAN PFEIFFER, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: The people have been skeptical of institute -- growing skeptical of institutions for a long time, including government. The people should know that we are -- that every one of the situations you mentioned, where a problem arises we deal with it, we deal with it quickly, we deal with it forcefully to make sure doesn't happen.


PERINO: OK. National Journal's Ron Fournier thinks lack of trust is a big problem for the country -- here he is.


RON FOURNEIR, NATIONAL JOURNAL JOURNALIST: This lack of trust in all of our institutions is one of the more pernicious problems of our time. I understand why people are very worried about Ebola, they just don't trust government officials and even private institutions like hospitals, to do the job competently and to tell them the truth, we have been battered by incompetent leadership, and we have a disease like this hitting our shores, we need to be able to trust our government, we need to be able to trust our institutions, but we can't.


PERINO: OK. I'm going to start with the contrarian view to that with Greg Gutfeld, because in your opinion, distrust of government is not a bad thing.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: You know that what defines conservatism and libertarianism in general is not trusting the government that we believe that is individuals. We are better -- we are better in making our own decisions in the government. The government is great for roads and obviously for protecting us, and that's important. The problem isn't our cynicism, it's the lack of cynicism in the media, their lack -- their lack of distrust for President Obama has allowed this unfettered incompetence to flourish, to unfold. All these scandals that we have discussed have never had any consequences, whether it's the IRS, the DOJ fast and furious, Benghazi. Because there are no consequences to these scandals, we have seen this administration is such a go from the White House to the animal house. There is -- it's a mess, and it's because no one is paying attention, the media has abdicated their responsibilities and that is allowed us to happen. Our citizenship is great. I'm talking about the citizens, but when the press doesn't have it, that's a problem.

PERINO: That's an interesting thing. And I also was going to add this Kimberly, when I pull-up this quote from Peggy Noonan from her column on Saturday from The Wall Street Journal. She's talking about civil servants and how there is lack of accountability from them and there's a speedy (ph) into a lack of credibility for the government. She says that, "The only people who seem to tell the truth now are the people inside the agencies who become whistleblowers. Desperate people who couldn't take the corruption. What does it say about a great nation when it's most reliable truth tellers are desperate people?"

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: But it's true, that's become the culture, right? of responsibility. And we wait, we sit there and hold our breath waiting to exhale until a whistleblower comes forward with the truth. And we've seen this in a number of these scandals that have come forward. It's unfortunate. I worked as a civil servant, as a prosecutor, representing the state of California. But, you know, we took great pride in our job, and I just wonder where has that gone, where has that feeling of accountability, of service and dedication, trying to do the most you can, to give back to your country, very disturbing to me because now the American public really does have distrust. What we have seen is gross mismanagement and it trickles down from the top when we hear, "I didn't know, I found that on Fox News, throw somebody under the bus", like Clapper. That's the pattern that we're seen in the -- unfortunate part is come to be expected.

PERINO: Bob, do you think that is then -- if that is true? And if it poll bears out that -- there is an eight people similar to a Gallup why not, because I asked the same question but similar. Do you think that this is built up over time, though, in your experience?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Yeah, that's one of the things I think we ought to keep in mind here. The unraveling of the trust in government began in the Johnson years Vietnam has a lot to do with that, Nixon obviously in Watergate. It run to the last one that probably got through it, all right, was Eisenhower and maybe Kennedy if Julia's (ph) killed.

But, let's remember that Roosevelt also started a lot of programs. Johnson did the great society. And this is a liberal talking, I have said this many times and I will repeat it again. Some of all -- there where all intentioned, but we bred generations of dependent people. Now the question is what you going to do about it? I think the lack of trust in government goes not to their state, to the local -- you see the local government was very well trusted. It's not anymore. It used to be local anchors and TV stations trusted that's what you more. Unions are not trusted, corporations are not trusted. What it does tell you about organizations in general?

Leaving aside the government, which is easier to pick up Obama and probably scandals, but this is something that's gone on for decades now and it's only going to get worse.

PERINO: So Eric, I want to ask you then, do you think government is just may be unmanageable at the size that it is and that we need to have more of this humble approach and humility about what government can actually do?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: To answer that question, you know word yes, but Bob, we have these speeches. President Obama goes to Northwestern University and talks about how great the economy is. We have scandal upon scandal, which Greg points out, for one thing that's probably the most scandalous of them all is to tell the American people things are great, when wages are stagnant, homeownership is down, cost of light, they tell you everything -- they tell you prices aren't going up. Tell that to the gasoline pumps, tell that to the mom who's trying to put groceries on the table.

BECKEL: Eric. Eric.

GUTFELD: Because they exclude food and energy from the cost of inflation with all these things going up. Hold on.


GUTFELD: Meanwhile, let me just take one more very important point. Last election President Obama vilified the fat cat Wall Street bankers, remember that? The class -- class warfare thing, the guys who were in the discovery (ph)park. And look who the only people who benefited over the last six years under President Obama, the 1 presenter in the Wall Street, it is -- who become fatter and more rich, and no one else is.

BECKEL: Your obsession with Obama, as if Obama was here at the beginning of time, and that's' all of it. You don't have a historical perspective about this. There have been lots of things. You know what? I want to talk about it you don't want to talk about it. I want to talk about something that took place 20 years ago, yeah I'm older then -- but you know, the fact that matter is that you keep coming back to Obama, Obama, Obama, and it's getting frankly old.

BOLLING: Is the middle class better off under President Obama? Yes or no, Bob.

BECKEL: No. It is not better off.

GUTFELD: Correct.

BECKEL: And it was also not better off, and had it to George Bush, he was not better off as certain worst than.

BOLLING: According to him though, according to him...

BECKEL: Just wait a second, that's my historical perspective, every president has had their moments when people are not satisfied in the middle class of as such.

PERINO: I remember one in particular -- of course what in August of 2005 when hurricane Katrina hit, and that was a failure at government level that had to required a lot of review and some new programs that were put in place, or plans that were put in place for better response. Greg, I want to ask you.

GUILFOYLE: You did something about it that was the point. When you see something that's a fail, you have to own up to it. And that's leadership and the country can learn from that and so can the people that come after you.


PERINO: Let me get Greg in here about log (ph) on to about Katrina, I just bring it up as an example of it.


PERINO: It's not just necessarily -- this President Obama thing, that maybe it is a government issue. Greg, I want to ask you about going forward to 2016. If you're -- if you think you want to be a candidate in 2016, and if you believe that government can't solve every problem, do you think there would ever be a campaign slogan would be, "I'll do less" because that of scene today, like, "I'll do less and not try to reform government and do all this big new programs.

GUILFOYLE: And not to in so much harm.

GUTFELD: I think that you have to -- we have become accustomed to the idea that government is here to stay. So you have to persuade -- you have to persuade the voter that what you're going to do is actually beneficial and not harmful. The perception that President Obama is dealing with right now is that he takes no definitive action unless it's easy and pleasing to activists and media who happen to agree with him. So he can make the phone calls, but he can't make the real calls and that's why I think the candidate is important. It's somebody who says, "I will make the real call"
when it's absolutely necessary as opposed to this idea of considering options. Right now I think we have an administration that is like a finicky diner at a restaurant, asking 20 questions about the salad dressing, while all you want is a beer. And that's why people don't see President Obama making decisions, they see him dithering.

BECKEL: Can I make a suggestion here? Government has not changed, it has grown.


BECKEL: When I first came to Washington, there were minimal sub committees they're now 100 sub committees.


BECKEL: When I first came to Washington, there were 1,700 registered lobbyists there are something like 40,000 now. We have -- the way I would campaign in 2016 is to say, "We've run this ship as far as we can" in this way, the way it's built. So we have to rebuilt it and even I as a liberal, a more they're going to say. Let's do zero based budgeting. Let say, we -- let's prove that this need -- the problem is we keep building on the titanic.

PERINO: Well I -- that a sure good question. Let me -- can I ask Eric a question based on that? Because this morning in the Wall Street -- Washington Post, Fred Hiatt who runs the editorial page, he wrote a piece about how the administration last week, John Podesta had gone out and trying to tell that President Obama has solved the entitlement problem that they don't need to do any reforms. And if you at in 2017, yes, maybe on paper it looks good, but beyond that, there's actually a disaster waiting to happen. But are they so cynical now on a campaign came in saying that they were going to be this party, in big ideas has ended up, they keep saying, "they don't even need to do anything."

BOLLING: It's amazing -- I didn't read the piece, but they were claiming that they have solved the entitlement problem?

PERINO: It is basically saying that they've got it all under control.

BOLLING: Under control? It's out of control. We have 45 million people on food stamps almost 100 percent more than there were 10 years ago. College tuitions are exploding. People can't afford to live, but the entitlement programs what they are doing is they're allowing people who can't afford to live, to be fed and how it is clothed by the government, we're creating a entitlement society -- we have -- they solved it, they solved it because people are more dependent on government than ever. And will continue to.

GUILFOYLE: But it is not unsustainable right? Financially.


BOLLING: Financially not sustainable. But it's a great way to garner votes.

GUILFOYLE: That is. It's about.

BECKEL: Eric, you keep talking about Obama and food stamps, Obama and this, Obama and that. Do you realize that the rules changed and people became more eligible for food stamps.?

BOLLING: Under Obama.

BECKEL: No, that's wrong.

BOLLING: No, no, no, Bob, you're wrong.


BECKEL: You've got to understand that the Americans didn't start it.

BOLLING: In all point instituted -- a work for welfare, work for welfare remembers that?

BECKEL: Of course I remember that.

BOLLING: President Obama lifted that rule.

BECKEL: He did not?


GUILFOYLE: There have been modifications to it that have made.

BECKEL: There have been modifications I agree with that, but he didn't lift it.

GUTFELD: To what Bob said about what a candidate should do. I think a smart candidate would be looking for one lasting symbol of the Obama administration to hang it on and that would be the White House intruder. Of the one thing that I think that can cover, every problem that's gone wrong is a country with its guard down, whether it is terror, whether it is debt, borders, the White House door. We're 17 trillion in debt and we can't afford a lock. So America, it seems like everything's open and nobody's home and if somebody can articulate that persuasively, you will see change.

BECKEL: You think it false to at first to have on the show, it's a good place -- it's very popular show. That we start thinking a broader context that we think about just Obama, Obama, Obama.

GUTFELD: I think I do.

BECKEL: I understand, I understand, yes, I think you do. But I think certainly the way that we pick topics here, it's generally anti-Obama, anti-Obama. It's bigger than that, Obama's going to be gone in two years.

GUTFELD: I agree with you.

BOLLING: And whoever the president he or she is, at that point, if the same policy is the same. You know -- tax high -- high taxation redistribute well.


BOLLING: You'll get the same thing.

GUILFOYLE: We're not going to stop talking or analyzing or deciding what we think is the problem could be done in a better way.

BOLLING: That is a Republican. That's doing the same thing. I'll be the first to raise my hand and say, "That's ridiculous to, enough of that."

PERINO: OK. I got to go.

GUTFELD: Where are you going?


PERINO: No, no, I'm not leaving.

GUTFELD: We have a show to do.

PERINO: I got to go so that the rest of you could have a chance to do your segment. Up next, President Obama's former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta says, "Americans need to get ready for a really long war against radical Islam." How long is the answer, when we come back.

GUILFOYLE: I know the answer.


GUILFOYLE: When in its latest beheading tape, ISIS has threatened to murder a former U.S. army ranger, next. Peter Kassig parents are now pleading for his release.


ED KASSIG, FATHER OF PETER KAASIG: The driving force in our family has always been to serve others. Our son was living his life according to that same humanitarian call when he was taken captives. We implore his captors to show mercy and use their power to let our son go.


GUILFOYLE: The Kassigs got a letter from their son who said, "He's afraid to die." The 26-year-old has been held captive for a year. The fight against ISIS could take decade according to former CIA and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta. He thinks America needs to be prepared for a very long war.


LEON PANETTA, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think it's a significant threat. They represent the kind of evil nature of that kind of Islamic extremism that is just as dangerous as Al Qaeda. If they establish a base of operations in that part of the world, it's only a matter of time before they will then use it as a basis on which to attack this country. I think we're looking at, you know, kind of a 30-year war, kind of history here.


GUILFOYLE: And that was a big piece of news that came out, or at least one of them. From that a particular interview Bob, you've personal experience -
- work experience with Panetta, what do you think of these comments? Is he realistic?

BECKEL: Well, he's actually watches "The Five," he's not going to be happy with this. He's an old friend of mine and this is his first campaign for Congress. What bothers me about what Dana said, not some of the policy differences he has, I think some of those may be right, although I'm not sure putting weapons into Syria three years ago would have gotten this thing not to have happened. But what amazes me is the big stories we hear on attacks on Obama's policy always seem to come when they're out pushing their books. Now I don't understand -- you think about it, the big stories we've heard have been around books. Now if that -- it seems to me at some point, you got a responsibility to stand up and say, "After you're out of government, this was wrong."

GUILFOYLE: So he you agreed with The Five.

BECKEL: Now I've got to ask -- I have got to ask Leon and he's going to be yelling at me, I know. But I'm going to ask him, why didn't say this before his book was published?

GUILFOYLE: But if it the truth, why did you take issue?


BECKEL: I don't think it's untrue. I think he believes it. Some of it is right, he believes and some of it I think he's dead wrong.

GUILFOYLE: But don't you have respect from him that he's saying that now he could actually make an impact and change the course of policy and directions and positioning of.

BECKEL: I think its like -- it's like Gates and Panetta, they could have changed it a lot more if they weren't selling books.


GUTFELD: I'm agreeing with you, why -- if this was so important, he should have been saying this when it mattered, it's like showing up at the titanic a month later with a life jacket, like this could might have helped us make decisions earlier, if he was more vociferous about his feelings, but it's a book and it's also to help Hillary, right?

BECKEL: I think you're probably right, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: All right Eric, how do you say it?

BOLLING:: I think he is -- for whatever reasons, the motivation book or just really believes it or both, or neither, or if it's for Hillary, doesn't matter, I think he's right. That's the problem.
GUILFOYLE: That's what I think.

BOLLING: I think we are involved, in maybe not 30 years maybe a 300-year war with radical Islam and finally someone will call it a war with radical Islam. Here's the problem though, do you realize what we have become? We've becoming Europe. You've opened the door to everyone. They said, "come on in, we love you." You know.

GUILFOYLE: And like what's happening in U.K.

BOLLING: Europe is a lost.


BOLLING: Europe is a lost cause right now. In some parts of Europe, they have a 40 percent Muslim population with a radical Islam problem that they can't solve. If we keep doing it the same thing here, we say, "come on, we'll take all comers, don't worry about it, we're not going to question you" that's going to -- we're going to end to becoming Europe in 20 or 30 years, especially if we have a porous border in the south, they made just come through that way and say, "we're allowing everyone to say" we might be in big trouble in -- radical Islam wants to spread. It wants to spread. So might not.

GUILFOYLE: And it will take the path of least resistance.

BOLLING: It that might be optimistic in 30 years.

GUILFOYLE: All right, I want to bring Dana in on this. And first I may ask you to listen and then get to your reaction. This is FBI Director Comey in an interview with Scott Pelley on 60 Minutes. Talking about Americans that in fact were fighting with ISIS are entitled under the law to come back into the United States.


SCOTT PELLEY, "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: How many Americans are fighting in Syria on the side of the terrorists?

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: In the area of a dozen or so.

PELLEY: Do you know who they are?


PELLEY: Each and every one of them?

COMEY: I think of that dozen or so, I do. I hesitate only because I don't know what I don't know.

PELLEY: With American passports, how do you keep them from coming home and attacking the home land?

COMEY: The ultimately an American citizen, unless their passport revoked is entitled to come back, so someone what who's fought with ISIL with the American passport want to come back, we will track them very carefully.


GUILFOYLE: OK, Dana, so here's the position that he sent right? FBI director -- everybody in there know what's going on with what he does. He comes outs and tells the American people you know, "I know what I know I don't know what I don't know." He has a problem with that.

PERINO: But I think that's true. I mean, we can only -- you can only actually know the things that you are able to surveil, the information, the tools that you have available. I mean I'm surprised it is only 12 people they were foreign fighters are talking about all summer the concern that they were -- I thought it was more that were over in Syria that were coming, that we have western passports. But I think that is true a lot more in Europe than the United States.

GUILFOYLE: So maybe that's all they are aware of.

PERINO: But it's absolutely right. On legally, are they allowed to come back into the United States? Yes.

GULFOYLE: They are.

PERINO: Unless we change the law, and his job is to follow the law. And I also think that what he's being candid and realistic, in saying, "we think we have got them, we're doing everything we can, but we might not, which why you have to remain vigilant." I thought -- I don't think it is important.

BECKEL: I don't mean this is better (ph) let's be honest but he covering his ass like everybody else is. There is going to be a big attack, there will be one, I think in the next five years, maybe in the next year, and everybody will be able to say then, "Unlike 9/11, I told everybody there was going to be a big attack." And I don't blame him for going out, it serves a dual purpose, one it does warn people, and secondly it does cover him. They don't want to relive what happened to the people who were in the intelligence community back on 9/11. But, I still go back to my point you know, when you talk got the Muslims in Europe, you know that there 200 years, they almost took over all of Europe. They got as far as team (ph) that's why they are there.

GUILFOYLE: You know Bob, you're very interesting today, I like your historical perspective.


OK. Quick comment Bolling on.

BOLLING: : My only comment was, they had an absolute open border -- open policy about -- and there are pockets of radical Islam within Europe that they don't go in and they don't even check it and they don't -- they're not even abiding by local laws, they're dictating their own laws and that's a problem. That PC correct -- political correctness that goes on there, if we want some of that here, then.

GUILFOYLE: Well that's my point. You use the law as a weapon, you can change the law, that's the beauty of it, when you educate, when you learn, you can have it (ph) you can write new laws you can find ways to protect the country. And I think they should also be exploring that instead of worrying about being so friendly all the time, do what you can to prevent people from coming back into the country.

PERINO: Can I say one last thing about James Comey. Which is that he worked at Bush administration in DOJ, has a long levels (ph) extremely well respected guy. I'll be much rather hear somebody like him say, "we think we have got them all and we're working on it rather than having a president of the United States who's running for re-election saying Al Qaeda is on the run or Al Qaeda is decimated and has find out that it actually not." I actually much rather have the honesty of Comey.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely we need, that's were expecting an attack, we know these people are hell bent on destruction and we're going to be ready for it. I like that part.


GUILFOYLE: When we come back, some members of a senate campaign family are caught on tape exposing what they say are lies coming out of the politicians mouths, that and more coming up in the fastest seven next.


BOLLING: Well, welcome back. Time for the fastest seven minutes on television, three political stories, seven PDQ minutes one pick in tell us first.




BVOLLING: Next up, Democrat Alison Lundergan Grimes is running for senate against Mitch McConnell in Kentucky.


Is he lying? To vote -- we look it out later. To voters about his support from the state whole industry, that what's some of her own campaign workers say, they were caught on under cover camera. Watch this.


UNKNOWN: We can't be a state wide politician and condemn coal, we can't, you're not going to win.

UNKNOWN: So she's saying something positive about coal because she wants to be elected?


UNKNOWN: And in the state of Kentucky, if you're anti-coal, you will not get elected, period. And I.

UNKNOWN: And you think she's out there lying?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean I really don't think her part is 100 percent in backing coal, but she has to say she is because she will not get a huge number of votes if she doesn't.


BOLLING: All right, K.G. I'm going to send it to you.

I mean, there were several of them; we only had time for a couple. But there were several and it was a common theme. She needs to say what she needs to say to get elected, even though she probably doesn't believe it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, isn't that politics today? And that's what everybody knows. That's why there's such dissatisfaction and low poll numbers when it comes down to people's belief and trust in politicians. That's why you have someone saying, I'm not going to listen to, you know, what's going on in D.C. or listen to those people, the other politicians. I'm just going to listen to you directly, be responsible to the voters. That's what I'm going to own up to. What's your problem, Bob?

BECKEL: I don't have a problem, but I don't know of a single politician in Kentucky or West Virginia who hasn't whored out to coal for -- because you have to. They're very powerful. They got a lot of money. And of course, she probably doesn't believe in everything they do.

GUILFOYLE: So you don't have a problem with it? If you were advising her, you'd say...

BECKEL: Oh, hello no. I don't have a problem with it. I've told
candidates in Kentucky, even though they don't like coal, love it.

BOLLING: Love coal. Dana, at one point, one of these advisors or operatives said that the Kentucky voters are stupid.

PERINO: Well, that's not going to help. That's not going to help.

Bob? You want to say anything, Bob?

BECKEL: ... a senator from Kentucky here. Let me put it this way, there's
-- some of those places, all their dogs are not under the porch.

PERINO: So you can just run that over and over again Democrats. I think the wholesale destruction of the coal industry is something that has -- is an issue that deserves a lot more attention. And I think President Obama in his last two years will not do nothing to try to help the coal industry.
And it is being decimated.

What we really need, I think, is a responsible understanding of the benefits of coal and the ability for us to be more responsible when it comes to the environment.

GUILFOYLE: Who's going to do it? We do need it. Who's going to do it?

GUTFELD: The world's deadliest environmental issue, and I'm talking in the world, bigger than anything, is indoor air pollution: 3.5 million people die every year from burning dung, twigs and cardboard. Three and a half million people.

GUILFOYLE: You rarely talk about this.

GUTFELD: No, because it's important.

BECKEL: You got to get that stuff out of your house.

GUTFELD: Because there's no Leo DiCaprio. There's no -- there's no environmentalists, aside from Bjorn Lundberg, who's talking about this, that the savior that could save 3.5 million people, is those little black rocks, the ones that we demonize.


BOLLING: Let me make sure I get these -- all three of these topics in.
Next up, last month the president noticed that the midterms just may be a vote of no confidence on his first six years. Watch.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I'm not on the ballot this fall. But make no mistake, these policies are on the ballot. Every single one of them.


BOLLING: Well, that didn't sit well with David Axelrod, former Obama campaign guru, who called the president out for highlighting the obvious.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not writing President Obama's speeches any more.
But if you were, would you have -- I was just going to say...

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA ADVISER: I would not have. It was a mistake.
But, you know, fundamentally, the issue that he should be driving and the Democratic Party should be driving is forward looking, because the problem is how are middle class people going to make a living in this country and what policies can we implement that can help? We ought to have that debate.


BOLLING: I'm not sure what's worse -- President Obama highlighting the fact that this was a vote of no confidence on his policies or Axelrod going, "What are you doing?"

PERINO: Doesn't it feel like, gosh, all these former administration officials should give the president a break:? The president was telling the truth.

And it was written into the speech, so presumably he read it, the speech before hand. He wanted to say it and he's being honest, so if their honesty doesn't match their campaign ambitions, just like in the first part of "Fastest Seven," with Lundergan Grimes, lying to the coal lobby there in Kentucky.

Then I have to actually think that the bigger problem here is the Democrats. Just tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may and if you don't win, you don't win.

GUILFOYLE: They want the prize. They want to win. They're going to do and say whatever it takes.

BECKEL: Jeez, that's new.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, I mean, come on. I'll pay for it.

GUTFELD: You guys, the bigger story here is Axelrod shaved his mustache.
This is -- reveals an essential truth that Democrats can't grow mustaches.
When you look at, like, Stossel's or John Bolton's...

GUILFOYLE: Those are real.

GUTFELD: Majestic creations. Axelrod's was like a soggy mini-wheat. And I salute the fact that he had that thing removed. I think they had to just rip it off while he was unconscious.

BECKEL: You know, I see bogus mustaches a thousand times a day here at FOX.

The -- just one point about this. I agree that these policies win this election. When you're at 40 percent in the polls, it's generally a good idea not to say, "I'm at 40 percent. I'm not on the ballot, but put me on the ballot."

BOLLING: Thought before we move on?

GUILFOYLE: No, I want the next one.

BOLLING: The next one's yours. Before we go, "Saturday Night Live's" cold open highlighted what we talked about last Monday, the softball interview
"60 Minutes" delivered last weekend. Watch.


BECK BENNETT, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Do you think you underestimated the threat of ISIS?

JAY PHAROAH, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Without question, yes, and obviously, my entire administration shares the blame for that, but first, could I throw one particular person under the bus?

BENNETT: Sure, go ahead.

PHAROAH: James Clapper.

BENNETT: You made the point that ISIS and the Islamic faith are in no way connected. Do you still believe that?

PHAROAH; Actually, I'm beginning to think there is some connection. For example, did you know that the first "I" in ISIS stands for "Islamic"? I mean who knew?


PERINO: They're not even that funny.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, all right. Well the other parts of it are very funny. I don't know. We've played it all day. It's keeping me, like, awake and going. It was very funny. I mean, it's clever.

Now you know, things are really a little dicey when "SNL" is getting after them. I mean, come on.



GUTFELD: I said this before: this never leaves bruises. It's like chiding Joe Montana for his quarterback abilities now after he's retired. The guy already won two elections. This is not guts. No comedian on "Saturday Night Live" went after Obama when it mattered.

GUILFOYLE: Why are they doing it now?

GUTFELD: Because it doesn't hurt him.

GUILFOYLE: It's still funny.

GUTFELD: By the way, "Saturday Night Live" should stop ripping off the Groundlings.

BECKEL: Can I say something nice about the Muslims and Islam?


BECKEL: For the first time I've seen in the last week or so, the Islamic community across the world is standing up to ISIS. And I think ISIS is not
-- is not a religion. It's not a state.

GUILFOYLE: What block is it?

BOLLING: Yes. How is this...

GUILFOYLE: What's going on?

BOLLING: "Saturday Night Live"?

BECKEL: "Saturday Night." Because he asked the question about ISIS. Did
you want me -- did I think it was funny? I don't think it was that funny.

PERINO: You might be able to make that point in the next block.


BECKEL: OK, sorry about that. It was still lousy acting.

GUTFELD: See, this is better than "Saturday Night Live."

GUILFOYLE: No, he's actually good, I think he's got a good take on Obama.

BOLLING: No, no. Save that thought, Dana's right, because the next block is -- it's really hot. Ahead on "The Five," Ben Affleck and Bill Maher fought over Islam, and things got very heated. Ben accused Bill of racism.
It goes back and forth. We'll be on that next.


GUTFELD: So Friday, Ben Affleck became a caliphate crusader, attacking Bill Maher and the great author, Sam Harris, on Maher's talk show over Islam. Maher and Harris argue that liberals are cowards when it comes to facing radical Islam's horrible acts, out of fear of being labeled a bigot by others. Affleck proved their point by calling them bigots.


BEN AFFLECK, ACTOR: Maybe it's not a real thing, that if you're critical of something.

BILL MAHER, HOST, HBO'S "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": It's not a real thing when we do it.


SAM HARRIS, AUTHOR: I'm not denying that certain people are bigoted against Muslims as people. And that's a problem.

AFFLECK: Bigoted.

HARRIS: But the...

AFFLECK: It's gross. It's racist.

MAHER: It's not -- it's not...

MAHER: You're not listening to what we are saying.

HARRIS: We have to be able to criticize bad ideas.

AFFLECK: Of course we do.

SMITH: But Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas.

MAHER: It's the only religion that acts like the mafia that will (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you if you say the wrong thing, draw the wrong picture or write the wrong book.

AFFLECK: What is your solution? Condemn Islam?

We killed more Muslims than they have killed us by an awful lot. And yet somehow we're exempt. Because it's not really a reflection of what we believe in.


GUTFELD: So burdened by lack of facts, Ben relied on that emotional crowd pleaser, cries of racism. What you see is the crisis that takes hold when liberal orthodoxy faces off with real attacks on liberal orthodoxy.

Affleck's tantrum proves Sam's point. The inability to separate identification of evil from platitudes on tolerance is what enables evil to thrive. Affleck doesn't help. Worse he didn't see, that where his point ends is where the rest of us begin.

Yes, we get that it's wrong to stereotype. But then we study the facts.
We could all pretend the world is a Benetton ad, but that does nothing to stop genital mutilation, beheadings, slavery, or genocide.

Behind those crimes is a sick ideology that preys upon the passivity of the west. Like the tussle over communism that fractured traditional liberals from anti-west leftists, radical Islam is repeating this dance among the modern progressives. Where Affleck is reduced to a sputtering bitter scold, soaked in self-righteousness, in need of a script because his words ring hollow.

And in a shock to even himself, Maher becomes the sanest man in the room.
How's that?

GUILFOYLE: He was kind of awesome.

GUTFELD: Yes. Bob, doesn't this conflict, in a way, seem similar to the rift during the communism years of -- among liberals that there are staunch anti-Communists who were liberals and there were those among the liberals who weren't. And that created a...

BECKEL: You might find this hard to believe. But there are a lot of liberals who don't like radical Islam.

GUTFELD: I know. That's what...

BECKEL: And there are very few people who make -- the way I listen to you say this is because of political correctness on the left, people are getting beheaded. Now, I mean, it's just those ridiculous...

GUILFOYLE: But he didn't say that.

BECKEL; I'm just saying generally, people say, you know, all these bleeping little liberals, if they would just shut their mouths about this or be politically correct, we wouldn't have ISIS around. Come on, I mean, let's get -- both of you ought to get a life.

GUTFELD: We do realize that, in this era of political correctness, if you come out against the horrors of radical Islam, you are accused of being Islamophobic. That's what Maher and Harris have been saying all along, what Ben was conflating that with, which was racism, Dana. But we do realize that Islam is a religion.

PERINO: It's not a race.


PERINO: But you know what's the biggest difference between the west and the world of Islam? Is that we got to see that debate.


PERINO: I was really interested. I don't think that Ben Affleck made great points. I would have sided with the others. But I love the fact that we got to actually hear the discussion.

GUTFELD: Rosie O'Donnell, after seeing this, said that Ben Affleck should be president.

BOLLING: Ben Affleck for president. Also, one of the other things, yes, Sam Harris made some amazing points. Some of the things we've been talking about here, Affleck didn't want to hear that. He was going after -- he incited race. He incited gay rights, and I'm thinking, of all the places to bring up gay rights, you really want to defend Islam and then bring up gay rights?

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem, yes, mixing it up.

BOLLING: Rosie says this also, he was looking for a fight. Affleck was looking to make a statement.

GUILFOYLE: He was keyed up. He was keyed up. No doubt. He's passionate about what he believes, but the problem is he's getting confused. Because Bill Maher is making a great point. He's talking about the difference between Muslims and Islam a religion. And Islam a religion that ISIS and terror groups are using to justify some of the most horrific crimes that have ever been committed since the Holocaust, all in the name of Sharia law and all based on their interpretation of the Koran, and that is what Bill Maher and the others are taking issue with.

BECKEL: Can I just make one point? Around this table, I think people can say there's four conservatives and there's one liberal. I was the first person to come out and attack the Muslim Islamists, because...

GUILFOYLE: The radicals?

BECKEL: Yes, because a lot of people were afraid to do it in the Muslim community and in the United States. Because they were worried about getting in a fatwa. I'll say fatwa this, and I'll say it again: fatwa this. I don't really care...

PERINO: What about fatwa that?

BECKEL: No, that's a different thing.

GUTFELD: Just to point out, too, that the beheader is actually British, so it's not about race at all. It's about belief.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you keep making these important points?

GUTFELD: Because I don't know why.

The director of the FBI has new details on China's cyber attacks against the U.S. That's coming up.


BECKEL: I've always warned our biggest threat was China. Our computer systems are being infiltrated by Chinese hackers. Our FBI director is warning every company here is at risk.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many hits from China do we take in a day?

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Many, many, many. And there are two kinds of big companies in the United States. There are those who have been hacked by the Chinese and those who don't know they've been hacked by the Chinese.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Chinese are that good?

COMEY: Actually, not that good. I liken them a bit to a drunk burglar.
They're kicking in the front door, knocking over the vase while they're walking out with your television set.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much does that cost the U.S. economy every year?

COMEY: Impossible to count. Billions.


BECKEL: You know, I know I've been on this topic for a long time. And I've 2:30 here today to talk about it. So let me just say quickly that these guys, we educate them in computer sciences, Chinese people, and we then send them back to China; and they then hack us.

And if somebody will begin to realize that, of all the threats the United States has, whether it's Islamic terrorism or this, that, China is the single biggest threat to this country, and it will be for 100 years. They don't like us. They're going to rip us off. And we play the game, because they're a big market.

PERINO: Can I mention something, Bob? Last Friday at 5 p.m., JPMorgan announced that 76 million households have been hacked, that their accounts had been compromised. But the blame goes to the Russians, not the Chinese.
And so China might be a threat, but I think the Russians also invading sovereign territory...

BECKEL: No, I think that's right.

PERINO: ... causing the downing of a passenger airliner. I think the Russians are just as dangerous.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's a competition to be the worst person and country in the world.

BECKEL: Greg. Greg.

GUTFELD: I've got to be honest: these are such old-world threats, they seem so quaint. Like Russia and China, they're like your grandfather fears, because the Chinese government are not beheading innocents or exporting terror. And I get your anger, but I feel like -- I feel like this is not -- they're becoming more capitalist. And I know that they have a lot of human rights, but I'm more interested in an ideology that is actually trying to come and destroy us.

BECKEL: You want to say something?

BOLLING: Very quickly. I think you're right. China is our biggest financial threat.

GUILFOYLE: Financial threat.

BOLLING: Financial, yes. It's costing us tens of billions and hundreds of billions. Our biggest safety threat: Iran.

GUILFOYLE: Because one is physical and one is financial. It's as simple as that.

BOLLING: Just One More Thing. Comey said his budget is $8 billion.
That's it? It should be 10 times that. They have both: they have to worry about our safety and our financial.

BECKEL: And by the way, they have that (ph) because they've stolen all of our stuff.

"One More Thing" is up next. That is the Chinese.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." Greg gets to go first.

GUTFELD: And it's time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Secrets to Happiness. Copyrighted by Greg Gutfeld.


GUTFELD: All right, the secret to happiness, a set of parents. Let's go to a zoo in Zurich. I always wanted to. This is a little baby elephant.
He's having a bit of a problem, isn't he? Thinking hey, what's going on.
I'm not drunk, but whoa, I fall over. And you know what happens? You know what happens next? Here come the parents. They're coming over there.
"I'm going to help you out." This is what they do. There they go. You see they help them up?

BOLLING: Are you sure they helped him?

GUTFELD: They got him up.

GUILFOYLE: Didn't we do this?

GUTFELD: No, I didn't do this. I don't remember. The moral to the story is, wherever you're at a playground, be there for your kids and also have the elephant wear a helmet.

PERINO: Not a bad idea. That was a lovely story.

GUTFELD: Maybe we did it on another show.

BOLLING: OK. Very quickly. "Homeland" season 4 premiered last night.
Behold the awesomeness.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: there's another way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making contact with maybe 100 locals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a new thing back here. It's not here. It's under the seat.



BOLLING: Great show.

PERINO: That was great, "One More Thing." Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: OK, is anyone into bubbles?


GUILFOYLE: You would be.

GUTFELD: You mean the chimp?

GUILFOYLE: No, a hydropod. So this is a peace activist that wanted -- and he was a long-time endurance runner, and he wanted to travel in this bubble to Bermuda, but turns out it was a little bit difficult for him, and he had to be rescued by the Coast Guard. It's Reza Baluchi. And when they found him, he was disoriented. He had been eating a Powerbars and running at day, resting at night, the poor guy. I mean, I don't know why he thought this was a good idea.

PERINO: I don't feel sorry for him. I think that was a stupid idea.

GUTFELD: Where do you park that?

PERINO: I want to talk about the protests in Hong Kong. I've been watching this: ongoing peaceful protests. People asking just for some more self-determination from the Chinese government.

Interesting thing: McDonald's is actually offering free toothpaste with some of its meals and letting all of them use the restroom, which is the important thing when you're protesting. There you have it there.
Interesting thing for the McDonald's to do, especially when they're trying to do business there. Bob...

BECKEL: Washington Nationals are down 0-2. Going out to San Francisco.
Only one team in the National League has done that and come back. That was the Giants in 2012. But I predict that my Nationals are going to win.
They're going to beat the Giants three straight.

PERINO: You'll make Charles Krauthammer happy with that prediction.
That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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