DNC chair Tom Perez on release of the Mueller report: A sad day for the institution of the presidency

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DNC chair Tom Perez on release of the Mueller report: A sad day for the institution of the presidency

The notion that President Trump did not try to obstruct justice is 'hogwash,' says Tom Perez, chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

This is a rush transcript from "Special Report with Bret Baier," April 18, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

BRET BAIER, ANCHOR: Now, for a perspective from a key Democrat. Joining me is Tom Perez, chairman of the Democratic National Committee. He joins us from Austin, Texas. Mr. Chairman. Thanks for being here.

As I did with Congressman Collins --

TOM PEREZ, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Always a pleasure to be with you -- Bret.

BAIER: -- let me ask you your thoughts on this day and the release of the report.

PEREZ: I think it was a sad day for the institution of the presidency, a sad day for the institution of the Department of Justice. And there is more work to be done.

I heard the Congressman speak and I think it's important to just quote directly from the report -- Bret because I understand the talking point -- no collusion, no obstruction. This is what Robert Mueller said. So you're not hearing it from Tom Perez or anybody else, no spin.

This is what they said. Mueller: "If we had after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards however, we are unable to reach that judgment."

So the notion that there's no obstruction is just hogwash. And as you correctly pointed out, there are a list of really, really very serious things. He tried to fire Mueller and the only reason he didn't succeed is because people that he directed to do it wouldn't carry out those orders. If you try to rob a bank and you don't succeed, that doesn't mean you haven't committed wrongdoing.

He tried to get Jeff Sessions to un-recuse himself. That is a problem. He tried to get Jim Comey to lay off of Michael Flynn even though he knew that Michael Flynn had potentially committed a crime.

(CROSSTALK)

BAIER: Those things did not happen, as we noted, but let's listen to Rudy Giuliani, the president's attorney answering what you're talking about there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: The president did not have a guilty motive. The president was and is considered under the law now because there's no finding of an underlying crime, he was an innocent man being accused of something he didn't do. And, he found a lot of irregularities in the investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: And the determination there is by the Attorney General who then determined that there was not corrupt intent. Now it's up to Congress.

PEREZ: Well Bret -- if you're asking me that, I mean I am someone who spent ten years or so of my life at the Department of Justice including prosecuting cases under the obstruction statutes. 18 United States Code Section 1512 talks about efforts to corruptly persuade someone.

And as Lindsey Graham correctly pointed out, you don't have to say I'm going to obstruct justice for obstruction of justice to occur. You don't have to say and these are Lindsey Graham's precise words. You don't have to say go lie for me, for obstruction to occur.

The notion that -- and Mayor Giuliani says well, the president said that he didn't have a corrupt intent so that means he doesn't have intent. That is for the trier of fact. And there are so many examples throughout this, Bret, of problematic behavior at a minimum where he appears to put himself ahead of the American people.

That for me is the biggest question here like why did he -- why did he trust Vladimir Putin's assessment of Russian interference over his own intelligence community? That is really troubling.

BAIER: Mr. Chairman --

PEREZ: At the end of the day we need a president who is looking out for the American people and not for themselves. That is why Congress has to continue their work.

BAIER: A couple more things. You quoted from the Mueller report earlier on the obstruction side. Another quote from the report itself, "The investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

You have a lot of Democrats who spent a lot of the past 23 months talking about that the president was an agent for Russia. Is there something that the Democratic Party has to say Mueller did not find it?

PEREZ: Well, again, I think the distinction, Bret between something that may rise to the level of a conspiracy that you can prove --

(CROSSTALK)

BAIER: It's not written here though --

PEREZ: -- beyond a reasonable doubt.

BAIER: That's not in the -- it's not in the black and white here. It says the investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities

PEREZ: Well again -- Chris -- I think the question --

BAIER: Bret.

PEREZ: -- you have to ask your, and it's a different question from the question that Robert Mueller is asking. The question presented here is, is there a pattern of corrupt behavior by this president? Is there a pattern of behavior where the president is putting his own interests ahead of the American people's interest?

When you get a call from a foreign actor, a foreign adversary that says hey, I've got dirt on your opponent, and I want to help you win. What you should do first and foremost is say no, and then call the federal authorities. What we know from the investigation is that is not what they did.

BAIER: OK.

PEREZ: They welcomed it.

BAIER: Here is where the decision lies now. It is with the Democrat- controlled House of Representatives. They have a decision whether to go forward with articles of Impeachment.

You are 18 months from an election. Do you think politically, as the chairman of the Democratic Party, that that is the right thing for the Democratic Party to do?

PEREZ: I think what the Democratic Party is going to do over the course of the next 18 months is walk and chew gum. What do I mean by that -- Bret? We are going to continue to focus on the issues that matter most across America. We're going to continue to make sure we're telling Americans that, you know what folks, we are the ones who are saving your health care. If you have a pre-existing condition we're going to fight to keep your healthcare. Republicans want to take it away.

BAIER: All right. But on the issue of impeachment --

(CROSSTALK)

BAIER: -- on the issue of impeachment. I know your list of things. On the issue of impeachment.

PEREZ: Yes. Again, Chris --

BAIER: Bret.

PEREZ: Sorry. Bret -- I love both of you.

(CROSSTALK)

BAIER: Thank you.

PEREZ: Yes, absolutely. As I've said, walking and chewing gum. I think oversight is an important part of our responsibility. As it was for the Republicans and they did no shortage of oversight. And so I think there are more questions to be asked here.

And I am confident that our Democratic leaders of the relevant committees, Bret, will continue to conduct that oversight in an appropriate manner. We don't know whether obstruction occurred. There were 954 redactions.

The president himself said a few weeks back that the entire report ought to be released. I tend to agree with him because what we saw today tells me we need more tomorrow.

But I'll tell you, my focus at the Democratic National Committee is going to be to go zip code by zip code talking about the issues that matter most and persuading the American people that we have your back on health care, on good jobs that pay a decent wage --

BAIER: Yes.

PEREZ: And --

BAIER: Well, we appreciate that.

(CROSSTALK)

BAIER: We're going to cover all of that. You have Speaker Pelosi saying President Trump is not worth it. You have House Majority Leader saying it's not worthwhile at this point. The election is coming up. We will see how the leadership goes with the question of impeachment.

Mister chairman -- you're always welcome back. We appreciate your time.

PEREZ: Thank you. Have a great day.

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