Did 'good people' attend Charlottesville rally?
This is a rush transcript from "The Fox News Specialists," August 16, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KATHERINE TIMPF, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kat Timpf along with Eboni K. Williams and David Webb. This is The Fox News Specialists. President Trump is disbanding two of his business councils amid the controversy over his Charlottesville response. The decision this afternoon follows an exodus of executive members. The president tweeting, quote, rather than putting pressure on the business people of the manufacturing council and strategy and policy forum, I am ending both. Thank you all.
Also today, the memorial service was held for Heather Heyer, the 32-year-old woman killed in Saturday domestic terror attack in Charlottesville, her parents delivering emotional speeches about their daughter's life and legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEYER’S FATHER: I came here today and I was overwhelmed. I was overwhelmed at the rainbow of colors in this room. That's how Heather was. It didn't matter who you were or where you were from, she loved you. That was it. You were stuck. So, for that, I'm truly proud of my daughter.
HEATHER HAYER’S MOTHER: They tried to kill my child to shut her up. Well, guess what? You just magnified her.
HEYER’S MOTHER: I'd rather have my child, but by golly if I've got to give her up, we're going to make it count.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIMPF: This is a very sad, sad thing, Eboni, which is one of many reasons why I'm so sick to think of having a leader of this country suggesting that she deserves some blame for what happened.
EBONI K. WILLIAMS, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HOST: Kat, this is hard for everybody. I think we've all -- this has been a heavy difficult day to work in news. Before I speak to Trump, which I know we will get to President Trump much of the hour. I just want to speak to her parents.
The courage -- and I don't know their belief system. As a Christian it spoke to me the courage to say they tried to shut her up and she will be magnified. That is certainly how my higher power works, Kat, in the face of opposition when the enemy tries to take you out, whoever that enemy may be for whatever reason, goodness is amplified and it spreads like wildfire.
And in this moment, I am so inspired and humbled by that leadership from her parents, and I really hope -- much like with the massacre in Charleston, where those nine parishioners were shot and killed just for their belief system.
WILLIAMS: And the family of Reverend Pinckney, and that was amplified and glorified and illuminated the world. I hope that Heather and her message, not her death, but her message will light the world in the same way.
TIMPF: David, your thoughts?
DAVID WEBB, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HOST: Well, I've got a couple thoughts and some of them aren't very popular, and they won't be with either one of you. One, I want to address her as you all did. She went out there to do what is her constitutional right and her God-given right in this country to protest under the first amendment in whatever way we don't know why, how, who she belonged to, nor should that be the main focus. But I'm also a little bit shocked at the limits of intellectual cowardice on this issue on the left and the right in this country. The fact is there were many groups that came there, primarily hate. There was the protest, of course, being led by the neo Nazis, all right. Nobody, I mean who in this country wants Nazis or fascists? They were the black lives matter.
WEBB: Let me finish. There were the Antifa people. And to the president's words, if you don't read Politico, then corrected themselves, if you actually look at it for what it is, there were many faces of hate. There were also people who said do we erase the history, they were protesting peacefully. They're not the story. There were people who said take it down. They were protesting peacefully. They're not the story. They're not the ones being talked about here. And the intellectual coward is to sit here and pars words rather than looking at the reality of who was in Charlottesville, and I would rather talk as I do on my radio show to people who are there reporting on what happened there, watching the videos, rather than the hyperbolic behavior going on by Republicans, Democrats, on all sides.
WILLIAMS: I don't think her death was hyperbole, David. And I think.
WEBB: I'm not saying her death is hyperbole.
WILLIAMS: To have a conversation about the removal of the monument is fine, and we can have that debate all day long. I'm sure we will get into it. For me, anyways, Kat, and I want your take, this has to be about the loss of her life, why it happened and what we're going to do about it.
WEBB: So how many news reports are actually about the murderer and her death over the president's words. When you look at the total media coverage, they're covering the president's words and parsing it.
TIMPF: Because his words were unbelievable to many Americans, myself included. But we have to bring our specialists in. We will be talking about this very shortly more. All right. Let's meet today's specialists.
She is a Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate from Michigan, the co- owner of Vesco Oil, and the Michigan co-chair for Donald Trump's presidential campaign, so she specializes in all things politics, Lena Epstein is here. And he's a rock and roll legend, selling 40 million albums in his career, he received the prestigious James Fenimore Cooper Award for his accomplishments as a writer, and was named Michigan's conservationist of the year, and he specialized in planting trees, he's been recognized by the national harbor day foundation for mentoring kids in the fine art of tree planting, Ted Nugent is here. A lot of Michigan people. I'm from Michigan. Michigan, Michigan.
TIMPF: Yeah, absolutely. So, OK, Lena, I want to go with you really quick. I know you're a supporter of President Trump. And my issue -- the things that David were talking about, people, good people in this rally, you know, just want the monument to say. For me, if you're a good person and you're in a rally and people start marching, Jews will not replace us, and you stay there. You are not a good person. You go home or you shouldn't be there in the first place. There's no good people at a white nationalists rally marching along with people who are saying Jews will not replace us. I've think that's uncomplicated.
LENA EPSTEIN, VESCO OIL CO-OWNER: As a Jewish woman, I couldn't agree with you more. There is no room in this country for hate and racism and bigotry, for people killing each other. And I'm deeply concerned about the state of this country and that's why I'm running for the United States Senate to fight for Michigan residents and the American people. With that said, I also support a president who has come off strongly against racism and bigotry and violence. There is no room for this in our country. And we all agree on that.
WILLIAMS: I think the only thing we don't agree with -- and we're going to get you in, Ted, is the strongly coming out against. I think he said it, he said the word from time to time. For me, he evocated, for me, he was ambiguous, I obviously said my piece on the docket, but I think that hesitance is an issue for some people.
WEBB: But the geography, real quick, matters here, because you say they were there marching, people marching with them. First of all, I don't know how many of you have been to Charlottesville, but I've actually sat down and had a dinner at a restaurant on that street a block away from this happened, and I'm going it tell you the geography of this. You had both sides going at it. The neo Nazis and you had the Antifa, black lives matter group. Those are about a couple hundred people combined. Then away from that were the people that were actually protesting on any side of this peacefully without getting involved. The total number in that area some estimate around a thousand. So you ought to pay attention and not also put the people that were there for whatever reason who were peaceful under the constitution with the people that were there to spread their hate and violent clashes.
TED NUGENT, ROCK AND ROLL LEGEND: Well, I got to tell you, I'm going to go ahead and say the most controversial thing in the world. If you find fault with this you're brain-dead. All lives matter, and we condemn all violence. Those are bad words. Why are those bad words? What planet are you from? We condemn all violence. That's what President Trump said. And all lives matter. If you don't agree with that, you're a racist.
TIMPF: OK. So if a Muslim Islamic terrorist had driven a car into a group of people, would you accept the president -- let's say, Obama.
NUGENT: Yeah, absolutely. All violence is condemnable.
NUGENT: Violence and hate came from all and many sources and we condemn them all. That's ambiguous? That's ambiguous?
TIMPF: Did you not say radical Islamic terrorism.
WILLIAMS: Kat, here's the problem, Ted.
NUGENT: That's a problem, all right.
WILLIAMS: It wasn't all sides that drove a car into Heather.
NUGENT: But it was all sides that infuriate their lunatic fringe. They don't represent the heart and soul of America.
WILLIAMS: When the prosecutors go to make this case, probably a federal hate crime as it should be.
NUGENT: Should be.
WEBB: Hang on a second.
WILLIAMS: No, David. Let me finish. That will not be ambiguous. There will not be multiple parties held accountable. That's a single individual acting in the name of white nationalists.
NUGENT: The blood hadn't been picked up yet. All violence is condemnable.
And it came from many sources.
WILLIAMS: All violence didn't take Heather's life, though, Ted.
NUGENT: Sure it did.
WILLIAMS: No, it did not.
NUGENT: It was all part of a bunch of lunatic fringe in a moment fighting.
WILLIAMS: Even President Trump, Ted, said that one individual is the murderer.
NUGENT: Maybe more information is coming in.
EPSTEIN: While I watch this lively debate, I am thinking about the American viewer that's watching us tonight. And they're looking for answers and they're looking for wisdom and they're looking for insight.
And we can all disagree. In fact, it's the most beautiful part of the American experience is to have an individual opinion and to be protected by free speech.
NUGENT: As long as we're not gagged by political correctness. All crime is condemnable and all lives matter.
WEBB: As long as we do something else which is important. Take a breath, everybody. And calmly put these where they belong. First, we're discussing, and Ted you addressed the president's words and you talk about it. Then you bring in the charge against the man. They are not mixed.
They are part of an event, different facets. So for you to sit here and talk about the driver and insert that into the comment about the president, you need to clearly separate them. To your point, the American.
WILLIAMS: Actually I did.
TIMPF: They're linked. They're linked, because you know what?
WEBB: Can I finish?
NUGENT: Sure they're linked.
WEBB: They're linked into one event. But his actions are not directly attributable to the president's words. They came afterwards. And also, he committed his act for whatever reason, as we will find out in the prosecution.
WEBB: May or may not. Based on what they're able to determine. So why don't we do what you and I've talked about over the years on the radio and take a pause for the process also to pay out. And for the rest.
WILLIAMS: We are, David. Certainly, you know me for many years. And I have never been one to -- I'm not indicting President Trump for the murder of this young woman. And you know I never ever said that, not on this show, and not in the years you've known me. That is separate and apart though, and Kat is right. He is also accountable for his response. In the same way that President Obama was accountable for his responses over the years.
TIMPF: People notice the fact that.
NUGENT: He condemned them.
TIMPF: President Trump has never hesitated to name the specific source of the violence and the ideology behind it until it was a white supremacist. That is a fact.
NUGENT: There were a lot of factions involved. There was numerous factions involved. To identify that all the violence was condemned.
TIMPF: OK. And you know what? I also think that if David Duke and Richard Spencer are praising your approach to racial issues maybe you're taking the wrong one.
WEBB: Oh, no. That is intellectually dishonest.
TIMPF: How is it intellectually dishonest?
TIMPF: Explain that to me, I'd really love to know.
NUGENT: Anybody can attach themselves to anybody and it doesn't mean it's accurate.
EPSTEIN: The Republican Party is the party of Lincoln, my friend. We are not the party of David Duke.
TIMPF: Say so. Why doesn't President Trump say so? White house statement said nothing about neo Nazis and nothing about white supremacists.
WEBB: First of all, because somebody endorses you does it mean you ascribe to their beliefs.
WEBB: And, if so, when the communists endorsed Barack Obama.
NUGENT: Barack Obama, absolutely.
WEBB: Did that make him a communist? No, it did not.
WILLIAMS: Let's be intellectually honest here, David. This is not the first.
WILLIAMS: No, let me finish. This is not the first time white supremacists or David Duke had tried to hijack wrongfully the Republican Party. Do you know who forcefully and quickly condemned them? Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush. So this is not the GOP first time at this rodeo.
NUGENT: And Donald Trump.
WILLIAMS: No. He actually told Jake Tapper -- Ted, he said I don't know David Duke.
NUGENT: And he ended uncondemning him.
WILLIAMS: Ended up. The hesitation is an issue though, Ted. It is.
WEBB: It is. And it was with Robert Byrd and the Democratic Party, for example who accepted him. When are we going to go out and take his name off buildings around the country? When are Democrats going to march? And by the way, who decides what comes down in this country, needs to be part of this.
WILLIAMS: That's a separate -- as you say accurately, that's a distinct conversation and I'm happy to have it. I'm happy to have it.
WEBB: It's part of this conversation.
EPSTEIN: I know that the fighting is good in this show and I know that's important. Let's have the human common denominator tonight that there are lives that were lost, families in grief. We lost those that would protect us.
NUGENT: Two great troopers.
EPSTEIN: Two wonderful troopers.
WILLIAMS: We called them out by name on this program because they matter.
EPSTEIN: People are hurting. Let's be the common denominator. We stand for humanity. We stand for grace and dignity. The Republican Party is the party of more, greater opportunity for all. And while we talk about the terrible tragedies that happened over the weekend, there's a lot of other beautiful stories happening in this country. Americans are enjoying a better experience as a result of Donald Trump's presidency, economically.
Why do we never talk about that?
NUGENT: And put an exclamation point on it the way Eboni started out by saluting the family.
WILLIAMS: Yes, absolutely.
NUGENT: And in the face of tragedy, Americans always take the high road and do the right thing. So our prayers go out to the victims, and we hope that the lunatic fringe will be suppressed and contained at some point.
TIMPF: I'm just trying to keep things intellectually honest here. And I know that if this were President Obama and this were an Islamic terrorist that was driving a car into people and he'd responded with all violence is bad, let's condemned all violence, many of the people that are condoning President Trump would be flipping out over this. So I just want people to understand what the word consistency means in their responses.
NUGENT: In those instances of tragedy, the perpetrators were specific an individual. In this instance there were many.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no, Ted.
NUGENT: There were many that fanned the flames.
WILLIAMS: Ted, you're talking about the protest, absolutely there were many. But when it comes to why Heather is dead today, that's an individual who acted in the name of white nationalism and white supremacy. He's a domestic terrorist. I don't care what you or anyone else said. That part is undisputable.
WEBB: That's disputable under federal law versus state law.
WILLIAMS: No, it's not.
NUGENT: He's a murderer that's for sure.
WILLIAMS: If we can't call it by its name we don't have the moral compass or clarity to be on this set and at this table.
EPSTEIN: We are calling it.
WILLIAMS: No, we are. President Trump is not. And that's the distinction. I'm glad you're representing the GOP very well today.
EPSTEIN: And I also stand with President Trump.
WILLIAMS: But you guys are standing for two different things on this issue.
NUGENT: No, it's not true. That's a unified condemnation of evil.
WILLIAMS: No, it's something very different. When he said.
WILLIAMS: The president plainly said yesterday in a press conference, he's either a murderer or we can call him a terrorist. He will not pick what he will call him. He will not do it.
TIMPF: All right. Well, when we return, Michael Moore and other left wing celebrities taking the streets over President Trump's Charlottesville response. I feel like Ted Nugent might have something to say about that.
WILLIAMS: Never failing to miss a shot at rank opportunism, Hollywood celebrities joining the uproar against President Trump's Charlottesville response. Late last night, Michael Moore led a host of other celebrities in a protest outside of Trump Tower here in New York City.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: We are here to perform a citizen's arrest.
MARK RUFFALO, ACTOR: We're here today to commemorate a life of an American that was killed by a Nazi on American soil. Let's say her name so Donald Trump can hear what's happened here. He has allowed these people. He has allowed fascism. He has allowed the KKK. He's allowed Nazis to show their ugly face. And we're here to remind him there is a cost for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Even the late night comedians could not hold back from getting overtly political.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN: I feel like I can say this with reasonable certainty, the president is completely unhinged. The wheels are off the wagon and hurtling towards the moon right now. Now, he does need to go. So it's time for -- especially you who voted for him to tell him to go.
STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN: The only thing I'm doubting right now is whether you're still going to be president by Friday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: But do all these celebrities just budding and turn off the average American from the issues at hand. David Webb, we saw Hillary Clinton at the tail end of her campaign bringing out full stop, Jay-Z, Beyonce, and everybody and their momma, obviously, to no avail. Does it help or really does it hurt?
WEBB: It's like endorsements when you're running for president. How much does the endorsement really matter from a celebrity? How much do they carry? The fact is these guys, I mean the celebrity comedians, the late night comedians, SNL, all these other groups, they owe Donald Trump for their existence because their ratings were dropping. You just have to look at Variety. Look at the reports of it. And they need ratings. Do you know what they're in the business of? Getting viewers so they can sell advertising, so that's what it is. It's Hollywood doing what Hollywood does. Now Michael Moore is a different story. This is a man who glorifies communism. Under communism and Vladimir Lenin, tens of millions of Americans, the gulags that existed when Bernie Sanders went to Moscow for his honeymoon. Look at what happened under communism. I think Michael Moore is the bigger hypocrite here.
WILLIAMS: Kat Timpf, I don't know if President Trump has made America great again, but he has certainly made late night television and Saturday Night Live great again.
TIMPF: That's absolutely true. Look, I mean, I don't know how much I can judge celebrity outrage because I'm not a celebrity, but I am outrage.
WILLIAMS: Are you sure? There're multiple fake media accounts for you.
TIMPF: Yeah. You're like a W list. I don't know. I have a twitter account for like my mole between my eyes and stuff like that.
NUGENT: Well, all these guys are so deep in the left tank.
WILLIAMS: You are a celebrity.
TIMPF: I don't think it was appropriate for President Trump when he was asked if he would go to Charlottesville. He said, yeah, I got a home there and talking about wineries. I don't think that was appropriate response either.
WILLIAMS: Well, Ted, you are a real life celebrity, seriously. So what is your take? Does it feel important for you to weigh in on this political stuff? Do you think it matters or do people just want to hear the facts?
NUGENT: I'll weigh in, and appropriate term when talking about Michael Moore. I'm proud of a lot of stuff in my life. I've got my family here, my grandkids. I'm on the greatest tour of my life. People love my music and I love my music. I really live the American dream. But my proudest moment is when someone like Michael Moore hates me. So if Michael Moore hates me and the president, it is such a badge of honor. You can't get deeper into the dirt bag world than Michael Moore. He -- bowling for columbine is a documentary? Are you kidding me? This guy is pure hypocrisy. He's a bad man. I understand he's still looking for hygiene.
Michael Moore is an embarrassment to Michigan. He's an embarrassment to anybody with a soul or conscious. So I take that as a badge of honor.
With guys -- as far as the late night guys goes, they're also so deep in the leftist tank that every time they open their mouth, good Americans with common sense and logic and decency write that off as just stupid.
WILLIAMS: Lena, to you. You are running for office. You, I'm sure, on the ground shaking hands, meeting people, hearing their stories of real hard working Americans. Do you think they care about this?
EPSTEIN: When I co-chaired President Trump's campaign in Michigan, one thing was clear, people of Michigan feel left behind and under represented by a federal government that hasn't served them. We felt the depth of despair when the recession hit in 2008. As a business owner, I could not look away. That's when I got involved in politics. So today, all of the celebrities, all of the media hype on Donald Trump, this helped the man get elected.
EPSTEIN: And today, as a national surrogate for the president and the administration, I continue to double down on the fact that the media is helping the man.
WILLIAMS: I agree.
EPSTEIN: And, at the end of the day, I believe that as Americans we all fundamentally want some of the same things. We want freedom. We want opportunity. We want to have safe schools. But the viewers are wondering, am I going to have a job tomorrow, in a month, in a year, when my child is sick? Will there be a good doctor, and will I be able to afford the cost of healthcare? This is what people are concerned about. Let's come together. I truly believe in an American opportunity for all of us. Why are we not talking about this every day?
WILLIAMS: I think that's exactly right. And I think every American values exactly what you're talking about. And I think the minute we all can accept in this country that we can all have that and it doesn't have to be at the expense of one another, we're closer to that American dream.
WEBB: I agree with that.
WILLIAMS: Attorney General Jeff Sessions in Miami today, praising it for ending its sanctuary cities policies. Can more cities follow suit? Stay with us.
WEBB: All right. So good news in one Florida City, Miami-Dade County, the end of sanctuary city policies, and receiving high praise from Attorney General Jeff Sessions today, addressing officials in the port of Miami this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF SESSIONS, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Miami-Dade is an example of what is possible through hard work, professional policing and a dedication to the rule of law. It's proof that the entire nation, it gives us an example, all of us can do better throughout this country. It's not impossible. Today, I'm here to announce that Miami-Dade is now in compliance, full compliance, and eligible for all federal law enforcement grant dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEBB: But a big question does remain: can the Justice Department persuade other sanctuary jurisdictions to get on board?
Eboni, I'm going to come to you first on this. Of course, you know, until September 30, Rahm Emanuel, for instance in Chicago, high murder capital in the country...
WEBB: Tragically is right when he says you can't take it back. The Supreme Court -- I wear their cuff links -- weighed in on this. You can't claw back the funds. But in the new budget, they can do something about those block grants.
WEBB: The states, the jurisdictions, what about protecting the citizens who live there, not just hiding illegals?
WILLIAMS: Yes, well, I actually had a 'Docket' before Monday's 'Docket,' and on it I say very plainly, David, I'm not in favor of sanctuary cities, mainly because I'm someone that believes in -- I don't disrespect states' rights. But I think on this issue, it is so clearly outweighed, the overall general safety.
And frankly, I told you, I don't think sanctuary cities make the people attempting to come here any safer either. I think it has a rippling and crippling effect across current Americans, people trying to come here for whatever reasons; and they really just are in direct conflict with our federal law. So I do not support them.
WEBB: All right. So, Kat, there's the issue of law and legality, states' rights and all of that. But there is also another issue, and that's the economic issue. There is a huge cost to illegal immigration. There's a huge cost when we have to prosecute criminal illegal aliens and put them away; but that's worth it. So what about that cost to the cities? Not just the lives that are lost to illegals?
TIMPF: Well, I don't necessarily think that illegal immigrants are, you know, like the main cause of violence anywhere. There certainly have been instances where that's occurred.
And I also think that the constitutional issues of, you know, local versus federal, those matter. They certainly do. Imagine if it was a Democratic president, and he wanted to try to withhold grants, you know, because of gun control or something like that.
However, I don't feel anyone can have a problem with this. This is Miami- Dade County deciding to do this for itself. And I've never been there. I don't know what's best for Miami-Dade County. They should be able to decide that. And this is clearly what they've decided. And I love that we have a system that allows for these sorts of things.
WEBB: Yes or no answer: should there be sanctuary cities in America?
TIMPF: It depends. See, it's much more complicated than that.
NUGENT: No. Not, there shouldn't be.
TIMPF: Well, I'd love to finish. That would be amazing.
NUGENT: I would just like to ask you...
TIMPF: It's much more complicated. It's about the -- I think the issue here isn't should they or shouldn't they? The issue is constitutional...
WILLIAMS: Do they have a right to choose?
TIMPF: ... in terms of do they have a right to force local police officers to do ICE's stuff.
NUGENT: And then you wonder if the...
TIMPF: The Constitution matters to me.
NUGENT: You wonder why there's divisiveness in America. Let me tell you where the division is.
The division is people on my side, who don't think you should give sanctuary to criminals. Then you've got some goofballs who think, 'Well, we need to give sanctuary to bad people, criminals, people who break the law.' Are you kidding me? This is a debate in America where you want to provide sanctuary for criminals.
WILLIAMS: Quick question...
TIMPF: No, no that's not it.
WILLIAMS: Let me get in here with a quick question. Where are you on the DREAMers? Where are you on the children that come here before the age of 18?
NUGENT: Now we are getting into a complicated issue, because you've got innocent people...
NUGENT: Who did not come here illegally; were born here. But I've got to tell you, at some point, you've got to draw the line. There's legal immigration like my grandparents and everybody's; and then there's illegal.
WEBB: All right. So let's go to you.
EPSTEIN: I -- I stand firmly on the defunding of sanctuary cities. And as a constitutional conservative, we talk about the Constitution. We're talking about immigration laws that are already in place. And enforcing those laws. We're not talking about creating something new.
TIMPF: Right. ICE is supposed to enforce those.
EPSTEIN: We are talking about a beautiful path to citizenship in this country that all of our -- all of our families went through at one point.
WILLIAMS: No, not all of them. Not all of them.
NUGENT: The legal ones did.
WILLIAMS: I didn't. I didn't get here illegally. It was actually legal at the time, Ted. But I didn't come here through immigration.
NUGENT: We welcome you. We love that you're here.
WILLIAMS: As a thank you.
EPSTEIN: As a United States senator, I will support the defunding of sanctuary cities, unapologetically, fervently, and will continue to do so, for the rest of my days in leading this country.
NUGENT: Thank you.
TIMPF: It's not about whether they're good or bad. For me, it's wanting to always be very careful to make sure that we do things according to what the Constitution allows. Because if we don't do that, then the whole Constitution means nothing.
NUGENT: And Joe Arpaio went to -- is going to go to jail, because he enforced that law. That's when it gets really ugly.
WILLIAMS: He might get a pardon from President Trump.
NUGENT: He's gonna. We talked about that.
WEBB: Well, it's his plenary power in a pardon, but that's a discussion for another time.
Straight ahead, President Trump taking a victory lap after Kim Jong Un's little Kim backs down from his Guam attack threats. Don't go away. I've been to Guam. Let me tell you, we're going to defend it.
TIMPF: Welcome back to 'The FOX News Specialists.' Our specialists are Lena Epstein and Ted Nugent. Let's continue the conversation.
President Trump is sounding off about Kim Jong-un's retreat on his threats to attack Guam. The president tweeting earlier today, quote, 'Kim Jong-un of North Korea made a very wise and well-reasoned decision. The alternative would have been both catastrophic and unacceptable.'
Also, it appears that China has started implementing new U.N. sanctions against the rogue state, with reports of mass gridlock today along the Chinese-North Korean border targeting North Korean seafood exports, a critical source of cash for the regime.
Yes, I mean I would say that that was the right decision of Kim Jong-un.
Because you know, the other one, he would have been totally annihilated.
TIMPF: So I agree with that. What are your thoughts, Eboni?
WILLIAMS: Good instincts.
NUGENT: His survival instincts kicked in there.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Right call on this one.
NO, I think, obviously -- look, I'm someone that really didn't have a problem with President Trump's initial statements around it. I think there's a time for diplomacy, and when you're dealing with a complete nut job, I don't know about that. So I think forceful language was appropriate there.
Regardless, really either way, to your point, Kat, he knew that that would wreak disaster if he chose anything but this. So this is a good day.
TIMPF: Yes, absolutely. It would be -- amount to him actually killing himself, if he were to attack us or any of our territories or allies.
Right? I mean, and he knew that. He knew that, Lena.
EPSTEIN: Absolutely. And President Trump campaigned on the abandonment of political correctness. He campaigned on putting America first.
And, yet, I watched the world criticize him for some of his statements on Guam. And look what it did. Look what it did for us today. We have reasserted ourselves as the powerhouse of the world that we've always been.
But we want a president who's scrappy, who's going to fight for us and put our interests first. What more can we want than this president when it comes to a nuclear threat.
WEBB: You know what we have to look at is a complex situation that has been going on since the 1990s and where it is now and who we're dealing with. I don't know about any of you here. I've actually sat down and talked with people who have escaped North Korea; done specials here on FOX News with them, Geun-hye Park being one of them.
When you look at this nation and you look at the people leading it, you've got to deal with them from their perspective. Part of the problem is we've had the six-party talks going on for years. The simmering pot that is North Korea that China keeps bubbling which keeps us busy for their interests.
So we have to change that dynamic if we're actually going to deal with them. And while we can -- you know, I don't want to parse the words and the type of words used, but the strength being projected matters to the person receiving the message. And that's an important point. You've got to give the person the message that they will respond to.
And I think in this case, we've got a step in the right direction, but we have a long way to go.
WILLIAMS: You've got to speak to where they can understand.
TIMPF: I mean, this has been pretty standard, where they make these threats, they do the big talk, and 'Oh, just kidding. It turns out I don't want to kill myself and all my people.'
NUGENT: I'm surprised we didn't...
TIMPF: I don't think he cares about killing his people. Himself.
NUGENT: I'm surprised...
WEBB: If I can just interject real quick, Kat. Their lies have been consistent. In '94, Clinton gave them $4 billion; Nobel Peace Prize to Jimmy carter. And in 2002 they admitted they lied.
So we know they lie. We know they have a co-development program with Iran.
So when we look at all of that, and the administration and the advisors look at all of this, you've got to change that dynamic. Because what exists now has allowed for a nuclear North Korea to advance.
TIMPF: Ted, I bet you're going to say that President Trump should have been nicer to Kim Jong-un.
NUGENT: Exactly. You know that. Speak loudly and carry a little twig.
You know, I'm just glad that we didn't send Dennis Rodman over and be our representative over there.
You know, we talked at length about this over a four-hour dinner at the White House. And everybody there was genuinely concerned, as up to date as they could be. I'm just a guitar player, but I try to pay attention. And we talked about these very strategies that, historically, you have to be open always to diplomacy and any other consideration to stop a nuclear hell zone, but you have to show your might. You've got to show all the power and be believable that you will use it if you have to.
And we're talking about this little turd, you know, thinking that he can run his country like a tyrant and like a king and a despot. And I think Donald Trump was the right man at the right time. You've got to be tough.
You've got to be strong. And that's how I think we got him to back down.
TIMPF: President of Iran is warning the country may restart its nuclear program within hours or days, should the U.S. apply new sanctions pressure against it. Fox News strategic analyst Ralph Peters gave his take on the threat earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RALPH PETERS, FOX NEWS STRATEGIC ANALYST: Well, they're starting to sound like North Koreans. But certainly, they can ramp their program up. I'm not sure it's within hours. But because the nuclear deal, Obama and Kerry stuck with Iran was so full of holes and so weak and especially weak on inspections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Well, this is why I hated the Iran deal to begin with, because it had sanctions in it that were utterly -- self-enforcement. I mean, are we kidding? And you know how I feel about sanctions. You know, it really, if it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. You know.
WEBB: Well, here's the thing, and I mentioned this before we got to this part, Kat. The co-development program with Iran. In the case of the Taepodong missile, it now becomes the Al-Shahab in Iran.
You look at this program, they're working together. Iranians are there when North Korea does tests. Let's face it: We gave them a bucket=load of money. Cash is -- cash is king when it comes to the terrorist market. And we cannot allow a North Korea to go further. We cannot allow Iran to go further.
EPSTEIN: The night that my opponent, Debbie Stabenow, voted in favor of the Iran deal, I looked at my husband, Eric, and I said, 'This is her last term. We just fueled our country's greatest enemy. What are we going to do now?'
And I reached out to all of my friends in Congress that voted to save their jobs, under the Obama administration. I am saying look at what we have put ourselves, the situation that we are in now.
The Iran deal was the worst international deal in American history. And that 15-year sunset is coming up very soon, my friends. What are we going to do about it? And that's one of the key reasons why I am running to be the next United States senator for Michigan: this Iran deal.
NUGENT: Along with the wall and tax cuts and immigration reform, this was a key pivotal issue for President Donald Trump. He addressed this, and that's why he won.
TIMPF: Up next, rocker David Crosby throwing down the gauntlet on Ted Nugent and why Ted has been kept out of the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. Oh, it's on when we come back.
WILLIAMS: Rocker David Crosby of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young fame, is taking on our very own specialist, Ted Nugent. Ted, of course, a long- standing outspoken conservative, And during a recent radio interview -- imagine this -- Ted made some waves in the music industry about why he's yet to be inducted into the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NUGENT (via phone): I'm on the board of directors at the NRA. Jann Wenner hates the Second Amendment. So that's -- that's the only reason I'm not in the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: David Crosby is tweeting out a really obscene response to Ted's remarks, writing, quote: 'The' -- something I can't say on TV -- 'just isn't good enough.'
All right, Ted, so you know, you have been loud and unapologetic, as you should be, about your political views; and it seems in this moment it is costing you a great musical honor.
NUGENT: I don't think so at all. The musical honor is that 50 years later, I'm doing my 6,621st concert for ultra-music lovers who just love real rhythm and blues and rock 'n roll.
And with all due respect to David Crosby, if any is due, here is a bloated carcass that has abused his body all his life. He's a repository for every drug and chemical known to man. And if he doesn't have that much respect or soul, then his criticism to me is a badge of honor. He can kiss my ass.
WILLIAMS: Do you think, Ted, if you had a more liberal point of view, if you had a different point of view...
NUGENT: If I had a more liberal point of view I wouldn't be on 'The Specialists,' because I'd be too stupid to carry on a conversation.
No, I'm standing my ground. I have this constitutional thing. I have this common sense, this logic, self-evident truth. I've too many flag-draped coffins to dismiss the perfection of our constitutional republic. And anybody that disagrees with that is just weird.
EPSTEIN: And that man, Ted Nugent, belongs in the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. Just shy of 7,000 concerts, 30 million records. And your songs, Ted, are American anthems. And I want to...
NUGENT: They're the battle cries for freedom.
EPSTEIN: I want to invite you on national television to join my daughter and me. My daughter is born on October 6; her due date is October 6. Join us on the campaign trail. Together, we will be unseating Debbie Stabenow.
Love to have you on the trail.
NUGENT: We need to make Michigan Michigan again, and I'm all there. Believe me.
WILLIAMS: Congratulations, by the way. That's amazing.
EPSTEIN: Thank you.
WILLIAMS: Do you think that this is PC backlash is the type that we know happens.
WEBB: It is to some degree. And as someone who has been inside the Hall of Fame -- we actually have studios there for Sirius XM. I've interviewed them, talked with their education secretary and other people -- or education leaders there.
Their judgment is wrong on this. If it's based on music -- and my background, I started out in music radio, classic rock. 'Stranglehold' got me through more bathroom breaks in music than you can imagine.
WEBB: ... our friend Greg O. (ph) was watching from many years ago can agree on this.
But when you have your views, they're held against you. Do people that exist in the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame belong there? A lot of them do. A lot of them are questionable. But if you're not there because of your views when you have -- I think it's actually closer to 40 million.
NUGENT: Forty million.
WEBB: Not to correct you, but 40 million records. I've come out -- I come from music.
NUGENT: I was voted No. 1 guitar player in Detroit, and Detroit is the epicenter.
WEBB: And literally, someone who has created a fan base worldwide. Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame is supposed to represent your contributions to music, regardless of the format. And I'm disappointed -- I'm not disappointed; I'm actually a little pissed off.
NUGENT: I'm not worried about it. I'm not worried at all, because I know what the real Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame is, and it's touring every year for real music lovers.
WEBB: It's about the fans.
WEBB: It's about the fans, and that's what it is in any business but certainly in music.
NUGENT: And I believe they will figure it out sooner or later.
EPSTEIN: And as a card-carrying member of the NRA, Ted's role on the board of directors is very, very important. We want to thank you for that and all the work that you've done. Thank you very much.
NUGENT: Freedom is perfect.
TIMPF: I'm still just trying to imagine Ted Nugent as a liberal.
WILLIAMS: That kind of threw you?
TIMPF: I don't know what that would look like.
WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.
WEBB: You know what we need? We need a rock and roll -- and I mean a real rock and roll revival of all the people out there that have been conservative in rock and roll music for years.
NUGENT: There's a bunch of them, David.
EPSTEIN: I don't think -- I think the revival is here.
WEBB: I was out on tour with a whole lot of them. Let me tell you, you'd be surprised, folks, who is actually very Republican, very conservative- minded in the music industry.
NUGENT: You bet.
WILLIAMS: I think this is America, and as you said earlier, the best thing about our country is the freedom to express a multitude of...
NUGENT: And I support them all.
WILLIAMS: And that's -- that's where we should be as a country. Well, we've got to say goodbye to our specialists now. That makes me sad. Lena Epstein and Ted Nugent. Thank you both so much for joining us.
Up next, it's 'Wait, What?' Don't go away.
WEBB: And now for our last segment today, it's time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, what?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEBB: All right. So I'll kick things off. I'll actually throw a little Elvis there. You guys heard a little Elvis coming up, 40th anniversary of his death.
You know what I love about doing this and what we do here, not only on this show but on my show on Sirius XM Patriot. We have a conversation. We have time to talk. We have our agreements, disagreements, our differences of opinion, and our different approaches. That's what makes this country great.
And our First Amendment rights matter in this country. It's broader than my lifetime, my children's lifetime. We've got to think in this country much, much further ahead. We can't have these linear conversations. These are complex issues. That's what we do.
WILLIAMS: You've got a great show. I've been on it several times. It's awesome.
WEBB: We need to get you back on.
WILLIAMS: We'll make that happen.
TIMPF: So do you remember Chuck E. Cheese? Mine is about Chuck E. Cheese.
Can we talk about that?
WILLIAMS: Not an animal video?
TIMPF: Well, sort of. It's sort of about animals. So Chuck E. Cheese is thinking about taking away the little animatronic band, because the kids don't like it anymore. But, like, did you ever like it? Anybody? Did you like Chuck E. Cheese? I didn't. I was always so scared of getting strep throat from all the germs on the videogames every time I went there. Very normal, well-adjusted little kid I was. So...
WILLIAMS: I learned so much about you in this segment, Kat. Really truly love and adore.
So my 'Wait, what?' So we're talking a bit about disavowing, in a really heavy, serious way. But this is in the most silly way possible. The rapper Macklemore is being asked -- being asked to disavow his haircut. We look at the visual here. You're going to see a haircut where he was basically accused of having Hitler's haircut. So he was having to disavow that on social media, Twitter, Facebook and the like, Instagram, as well.
TIMPF: Did he do it?
WILLIAMS: He did do it.
TIMPF: Oh, come on.
WILLIAMS: He literally disavowed his haircut so that people would not be confused that he was trying to emulate Hitler.
TIMPF: Oh, please.
WEBB: Wow. Well, we won't disavow the audience right here. And that's all the time we have for today. Thanks for watching. Make sure you follow us on social media, @SpecialistsFNC on Twitter and Facebook. Remember, 5 o'clock will never be the same. 'Special Report' next.
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