Did Donald Trump Jr. actually do anything wrong?

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Did Donald Trump Jr. actually do anything wrong?

Press and pundits are split on Donald Trump Jr.'s meeting with a Russian attorney; reaction and analysis on 'The Five'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 12, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It is 9 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Tonight, new reaction from President Trump to the firestorm surrounding his son's meeting with Russian lawyer. The President is telling Reuters tonight that he only learned of last year's controversial sit down with the Russian attorney a couple of days ago and he doesn't blame his son for holding the meeting. Quote, "Many people would have," he said.

Meanwhile, some on the left are continuing the push the treason charge, other say that is nonsense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR EMERITUS: This is the conduct that would be covered by the First Amendment. It's also not prohibited by law and there's been so much overwrought claim. There are people who are talking about treason. I can't believe "The New York Times" had an op-ed yesterday in which treason was mentioned.

JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: People are saying, you know, this could be treason, which is facially absurd.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I really it's absurd to say this could be treason. It just doesn't rise to that level.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

PERINO: The President's former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski thinks the White House needs to get much tougher on cracking down on leaks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Anybody and I mean anybody who is not on the President's agenda that works in this administration should absolutely be removed immediately. I don't know who the leaker is but let me tell you this, if it interrupted me and somebody was speaking to the media or leaking information which could potentially be detrimental to the President and this administration, I am getting their agenda done, I would fire them on the spot and Donald Trump will do the same.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right. Juan, if I could go to your first because you can think that Donald Trump, Jr.,'s meeting was wrong, possibly unethical but to jump to treason, does that just undermine the Democrats points of trying to continue this investigation with any sort of credibility?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Oh, yes. I mean, this is the world of hyperbole. Unsupported, unsubstantiated. And it looks to me like, the kind of thing that would give grits other side that wants to say that the Democrats, or the liberals, the left and how everyone was described in the progressives are just inflamed to the point where they have lost rationality.

Because there is no basis in which you can say treason is at stake here. I mean, this is an interesting point, Dana, because if you think of impeachment as the ultimate goal for the far left here, then you are talking about high crimes and treason. Right? That's the definition. That is a political statement. That's not a legal definition. That is up to like, if you and I are members of the Congress, then we get to decide if we consider this to be treasonous behavior. But even by that definition -- moving away from the statute, I don't see it.

PERINO: Kimberly, you are the lawyer at the table.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Indeed.

PERINO: Dershowitz went on to say that perhaps Congress needs to clarify the law about interactions between campaigns and foreign government. But right now, this is not just there.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he's right. This is the thing. People are trying to run with this. Because I think they are trying to obviously smear Donald Trump, Jr. They are trying to ruin any kind of political aspirations. Remember we are at the RNC and how well he did and he gave a great speech? And a lot of people talked about his political future.

This is trying to do reputational and generational damage to the Trump family. And they are starting heavily and aggressively with Donald Junior in terms of the family. They've tried to take hits, you know, at Ivanka who by the way has been very passionate coming out on behalf of women's issues and fair pay for women and help for working women as it relates to health care, as relates to Syria, and the chemical weapons attacks.

So, for me, when I see something like this, I just wonder what is the motivation is behind us, in terms of somebody going after him like this. I don't see any evidence of a crime. And Dershowitz is right. Perhaps this is really the perfect time to find some clarification, some clarity as it relates to what is appropriate and what isn't. Let me tell you, if my father is running for President of the United States, I would sit down and take a meeting and find out if there was information against an opponent.

Let me tell you something. Compare this to what Hillary Clinton did to the women that accused Bill Clinton of sexual misconduct or assault of conduct against them. Et cetera. What did she do to smear them and investigate them? So, I find the hypocrisy from the left really appalling.

PERINO: All right. Jesse, some on the right have been saying that, well, why isn't anybody looking into and investigating and charging Hillary Clinton's team with collusion with the Ukrainians?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: Because they got information that was against Paul Manafort who eventually, basically gets fired from the Trump campaign. But if that's the case -- isn't that also admitting that this meeting was wrong?

WATTERS: I think they're saying, if you want to criminalize politics, we can to go tit for tat. I don't think anybody is going to go down that road though because that would never happen if you're never going to get Hillary Clinton, if you're guilty of anything.

PERINO: We've established that.

WATTERS: We've tried that. It doesn't work. But Trump is pretty tough on too and I believe that toughness has been passed down to Don, Jr. because, you know, yes, he did give the left a little ammo here. But what is the left going to do? They're going to shoot themselves on the foot. And they've done. Because now Tim Kaine who lost in November is talking about treason.

GUILFOYLE: He can play the harmonica.

WATTERS: Yes. Exactly. Now, let's think about treason. Donald Trump, Jr. got duped into a meeting about Russian human rights abuses and nothing came of it. There was no information exchange. And you want to charge him with treason so he should face the death penalty for being duped into a meeting about something else? I mean, it is absolutely crazy. He is not a seasoned political operative. Like Kimberly said, he's just trying to help his father. And if there's something wrong with just trying to help your father, then I guess --

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: We are all guilty.

PERINO: But one of the things, though is, and Corey Lewandowski was getting to that in that sound bite Greg is that the leaks are actually coming from the inside. So, they established I think it was Axios this morning said, that the White House is not under any illusions, they understand they have a PR problem, they don't think they have a legal problem at least not yet. But the PR problem is actually sort of internal sabotage and that could cause them more problem.

GUTFELD: Yes, I don't care. I honestly don't care. The more alarmed the press becomes, the more I believe America is becoming exhausted. These stories are becoming so intense and so over-the-top. And they are so interested in re-litigating the past instead of the future. It's not about -- we know as Americans it is not about collusion, it's about settling the score. And I would think, yes, we might do the same thing because we would be angry over an election but at a certain point, you've got to let it go.

I mean, I can redefine collusion as the collusion between the media, academia, and the entertainment industry, who have been trying to brainwash us for decades over the dumbest ideologies. We've been victims of collusions all of our lives. The narrative here is that the Trump presidency is in disarray. That's what we know because that's what we elected. We are okay with disarray.

We elected somebody because they don't have experience in politics. Therefore, he's surrounded by people who are not adept at controlling the narrative. Maybe that's their fault and maybe Donald should have known better but the bottom line is this, if you wanted this not to happen, you could have had a Kasich, you could have had a Rubio, but then you wouldn't have had the phenomenon, you wouldn't have had the revolution.

PERINO: You would probably have Clinton.

GUTFELD: And you would probably have Clinton. So, you take the good --

GUILFOYLE: And now we have less ISIS.

GUTFELD: Yes. Exactly. So, you have the good which is, you have this, it's a phenomenon. Trump is a phenomenon. And you are seeing things happen like ISIS. But the downside is, you are going to have this stuff going on forever because they don't know how to deal with it because they are not insiders. You elected an outsider. This is not a bug in the system. This is the system. And we just have to deal with it and we have to get over it. The hyperventilation on other networks is insane. I mean, have you seen them lately? I worry about their health.

WATTERS: Yesterday you saw a fever pitch.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: And today, you can even see the temperature come down at least half a degree.

GUTFELD: But they will find something new. This "Wall Street Journal" piece that came out, everybody is screaming about it. And then you read it, and you try to find. There's nothing in there. At least, I couldn't find it.

PERINO: The Wall Street Journal piece is basically saying that the Russians were trying to infiltrate into the campaign just to see who might, well, they were trying to listen in. We found out the Russians were talking about the Trump campaign but we have known that.

GUTFELD: Yes. We have -- but that was the tick tick boom on twitter that everybody else, this is fine, this is the other shoe.

PERINO: And it's sort of like --

WILLIAMS: Well, I think there are two other stories that are interesting. One is, McClatchy reporting that in fact, there are concerns that the Russians were given information about various districts where there were vulnerabilities for Clinton. Where there were weaknesses. And then those districts saw an increase of the kind of hacking and emails being sent in, specifically targeted at blacks, women, that decrease Hillary Clinton's votes. Now, that would be cooperating and urging on a foreign power.

So, you guys say, well, there is no treason and Democrats looks silly and I agree. But that's not to say that there is not real problems here. I mean, even, you know, for me, as a Democrat, I looked to see what are Republicans saying? When are Republicans going to become critical? And today, you had National Review saying basically, you know, Russian collusion is no longer just a tinfoil conspiracy theory. No American, Republican or Democrat, should defend the intent of Donald Trump's meeting. I mean --

PERINO: Well, even Donald Trump, Jr., said he would have done it differently. Hindsight being 2020. He even said that --

WILLIAMS: Yes. But I mean, Jesse says that he was duped. He wasn't duped. He saw an email that said, this was --

WATTERS: Wait a second! There's a sloppy meeting. They came to him.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no!

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: -- with the guy that did the hook up. The meeting fizzled out after 30 minutes.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, the email said she is coming with information directly from the Russian government.

GUILFOYLE: Fact. Because this party is going down the toilet. They don't get it. And by the way, now people within your party, Juan, are saying this Russian story is a total loser. Okay? You guys don't have the Senate, you don't have the House. You certainly don't have the oval. You keep chasing this story. You have Bernie Sanders who, you know, he's not a closer, either. Hillary is going to try and ruin the party again and hide out with Scooby snacks in the van and moves another election. If I were you guys, I would be freaking out.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: I think that from what I read, I think who's not going well for, and I don't care what your political affiliation is. This President at the White House is not doing the job. He's not delivering for Republicans --

GUILFOYLE: He needs to get some better people in to be able to deliver what he promised the working men and women across the --

WILLIAMS: Kimberly Guilfoyle just said that she thinks President Trump should get better people?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I think he should get better people in, he needs to fill the positions that are there. And he knows that.

WATTERS: I wouldn't take so much attention to that weekly Senate Republicans because they are going to run for the hills, the smallest with of controversy.

WILLIAMS: You think Senate Republicans are going to run for the hill? I don't see any evidence of that.

GUTFELD: I have a question.

WATTERS: I've watched them all day. They are like, oh, I'm very concerned about this --

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. They are not turning away from Donald Trump.

WATTERS: Oh, we will, the first time --

GUTFELD: I am going to ask the dumbest question because I like to ask you dumb questions.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. You are good at it.

GUTFELD: How come a citizen cannot engage in a practice that a reporter can? A reporter can to a meeting and if he gets some information, that person is a whistleblower, you're hero Pentagon papers. It's Snowden. It's everything. But then if Trump, Jr. who is a citizen, not involved in a campaign does it, it's called collusion. When in fact, if he had done something, he could have been our Chelsea Manning. And he could have a hero.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: But no, his collusion, a reporter however is a hero, they make a movie about you.

PERINO: If a foreign government, just hypothetical.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: If a foreign government comes to you with information to damage another American --

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I would not do it.

GUTFELD: Oh, I would in a second. I'd go, I'd go, so wait, so you're going to tell me, Dana is going to get on the phone, hello, FBI? No, you're not. You're going to go, I wonder what it is. I've got answer -- Jesse Watters.

PERINO: I disagree with you. I would never do anything to hurt Jesse Watters.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: But if they call me that information on you, I am taking that call. All right.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: A breakup announcement next. Not the split you might be thinking. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: This monologue, it means something. Joe Scarborough has announced that he's leaving the Republican Party. Reactions pouring in from all over the world:

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Too easy. Scarborough -- aka "Morning Joke" -- told this shocker on Colbert last night:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: This is well before Donald Trump was elected president that my party has betrayed their core values. Time and time and time again, they turn the other way. And they are doing the same thing now. And it's actually disgusting. You have to ask yourself: What exactly is the Republican Party willing to do? How far are they willing to go? How much of this country and our values are they willing to sell out?

STEPHEN COLBERT, THE LATE SHOW HOST: But aren't you a Republican?

SCARBOROUGH: I am a Republican, but I'm not going to be a Republican anymore. I've got to become an independent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Okay, weird Matt Perry.

We go live right now to the Republican Party for reaction.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: So, Joe calls it an exit but for Republicans, it's really an enema. Talked about draining the swamp, this guy was so inside he sneezes pollywogs. He played both sides like a teenager with his favorite record. But thankfully not Joe's.

PERINO: Oh my!

(MUSIC PLAYING)

GUTFELD: Oh, man, is that awkward or what? He seems to be the only one there enjoying the song. The poor band is just waiting for the check to clear. But it shows that for Joe, all decisions are driven by a need for attention. He chases the spotlight until it dims and then he moves on. After all, he does tend to leave things. He did resign from Congress, after all. But there is something smug in sanctimonious about announcing you're leaving a group that isn't clamoring to keep you. And if it's because of Trump, fine. But the fact is, Donald Trump's victory owes a lot to Joe. Joe indulged him, flattered him, used him to gain access and ratings. To woo him away from "Fox & Friends." Then when he saw Donald outgrow him, he imploded.

But I wish him luck. I welcome his independence, even if it's just another stab at relevance, to be noticed at the next Hamptons cocktail party. I bet he's going to bring his guitar.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Dana, did his announcement move you to tears?

PERINO: No. Even with my dry eyes. When Colbert asked him, are you still a Republican? And it's obviously such a planted question. They probably were able to get booked on Colbert saying that they were going to make this big news.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: He was no longer going to be part of the Republican Party. It is a little hard to take, given, you know, watching the primary pretty closely, we all lived it. And they loved Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: Oh my God!

PERINO: And it was like wait, I don't understand. What about all these conservative principles and all of these things?

GUTFELD: He compared him to Reagan!

PERINO: I know.

GUTFELD: He said he was the next Reagan.

PERINO: So, this is a little match.

GUTFELD: Yes. Jesse --

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: It takes talent to make -- leaving your party seemed phony. If you know what I mean --

WATTERS: You're saying he didn't -- at all, is that what you're saying? First when I saw we were doing this story, I was like, why are we doing this story?

GUTFELD: Me too.

WATTERS: And then I'm like, yes, because Gutfeld's monologue was that good. Now I know why we did the story. I don't have anything bad to say and Joe Scarborough don't have any animosity there and I want to congratulate him on his nuptials.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: And it seems like Mika and Joe having a little renaissance. And they are kind of riding the wave of the Trump feud or whatever. So, that's fine, let them do their thing. The book tour. He's got the band is getting back together. I don't know what that was. You know, I don't think anybody cares in the Republican Party that he's leaving. I think MSNBC loses a talking point now, when you say there's no conservatives on MSNBC, you can't say Joe Scarborough and Morning Joe. You can't even say that.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: That's true.

GUTFELD: You know, Juan, isn't this another example, you've seen this in the last six months of people being broken emotionally by Trump, they go through this like thing and they're just something happens and they are never the same. Is that what happens here? He's just like, he's emotionally broken by this victory because I don't know.

WILLIAMS: I don't know if he's emotionally broken. You made an argument. I like them and I think you said he's behaving in an expedient manner. He is just capitalizing where he can for the moment to get attention. I will say I took him seriously.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: So, I wanted to know exactly what his argument is, oh, this is the guy Donald Trump who says, I don't know what the KKK and David Duke are or Judge Curiel because he has Hispanic heritage can't be a judge in my case. And he goes on about values. And he says, why are Republicans continuing to make excuses for Donald Trump?

GUTFELD: I don't think he said he didn't know who the KKK was. I think he said that he wasn't aware that they were, so what if there's some freak that supports you? If I worry about that --

GUILFOYLE: How many times did he disavow? Come on! This is old news.

WILLIAMS: Well, I just think that he takes it seriously. Because it is very critical, as we sat in the first segment. As to what point do Republicans say you know what? Donald Trump, this has gone too far.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know, Kimberly -- has convinced me. Now that Joe has left, he has convinced me. Trump is evil.

GUILFOYLE: And you're leaving the unicorn party?

GUTFELD: Yes, I am. I'm forming my own party.

GUILFOYLE: Fantastic. So, I love the hairdo.

WATTERS: Yes, can we talk about that?

(LAUGHTER)

I want hair like that.

GUILFOYLE: Yours is actually like short in comparison. His is like tremendous chia pet. No, no, it's like unbelievable. Miracle grow. Fine. But here's -- he wants to sell albums and he said this and that's fine. He's into this whole thing. He's into his music.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: He's feeling it. I am happy for him. Mike supports him. Good for them. Like, good.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Good.

GUTFELD: Think positive.

GUILFOYLE: And he likes to go and play and he likes to record 50 songs and play for his kids but here's my thing.

GUTFELD: Uh-hm.

GUILFOYLE: Donald Trump, the President, was very good to them. He's very loyal. He offered them to get married at Mar-a-Lago. He offered them to get married at the White House. He went on their show a lot, the whole deal. And then they were just like hitting him in the face which, you know, I don't live like that.

GUTFELD: You know what I found interesting is, in the music performance, he reminded me a lot of the partridge family. Joe, you know that you're not really musician if you are constantly looking at the people around you while you're playing. Because that is like, I am not supposed to be here. He kept going like this.

PERINO: Is that a cover song or original?

GUTFELD: It sounded like he ripped off Pete Townsend. Let me my love open the door.

PERINO: But he's written a lot of these songs. I don't know, we'll see what -- welcome to the monkey house.

WATTERS: What instruments do you play, Greg?

GUTFELD: I play everything.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: He was in a band.

GUTFELD: I was in a band. I can't say the name of the band, it was a death metal band.

WATTERS: Oh, we've got to get a footage to that. That's going to be my one more thing tomorrow.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Were you really? Was Dobbs in it?

GUTFELD: No.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: No. But they were actually good, right? I mean, you guys --

GUTFELD: We were okay. Let's just let it go.

WATTERS: Oh, you opened up a --

PERINO: Yes. I was just trying to get the tapes.

GUTFELD: Up next --

PERINO: Hello Russia, if you have the tapes --

GUTFELD: I was 20 years old. I was 20 years old.

GUILFOYLE: How did you lock though?

GUTFELD: I was raped.

(CROSSTALK)

Anyway, up next, why is a liberal magazine editor who considers herself a feminist criticizing Ivanka Trump for her clothing? We will tell you, up ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Ivanka Trump recently accompanied her father to Germany for the G20 Summit. While there, the first daughter and presidential advisor launched a Women Entrepreneurs Finance Initiative and recently sat in for her dad at a meeting of world leaders. And now, one liberal magazine editor is saying that Trump is not a feminist. Not for something she said but rather because of what she wore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN WALSH, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't mean to sound sexist, it can be dangerous to comment on what women wear but the fact that she sat in for her father and a dress that was so incredibly ornamental was such a contradiction in terms. It's a pink dress with big bows on the elbows. There's something incredibly ornamental. That's not a dress that's made for work. That's not a dress that's made to go out in the world and make a difference. That is a dress that is designed to show off your girlyness. And you know, God bless her. Show it off. But don't then tell us that you are crusading for an equal place for women at the table. Because you are not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Ah! Gross. All right, Dana.

PERINO: I can barely breathe.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

PERINO: Because this is exactly what the feminist movement was fighting again.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: That they didn't want to be judged by your looks. That you wanted to be judged on your thoughts, and your capabilities and your work. And then if you look great, that's fine. You can dress however you want. When she says, I don't mean to sound sexist but -- just stop there. Don't ever even start saying that. Like when you say, no disrespect but -- just don't even say that. In the Obama administration, when they had the house and the senate, the Democrats, they could not get paid maternity leave through. They didn't even try. Ivanka Trump is actually working it. She's going up there on the issues that she cares about.

Today, Ivanka Trump -- and actually, this is my one more thing, she was able to announce that the president is going to put in more money towards humanitarian aid for the famine that's being exacerbated in Africa. The other thing is she's created this entire worldwide push for entrepreneurial gains for women and girls around the world. What else could this feminist actually ask for? And they make fun of her outfit? This is why young women do not want to call themselves feminist, and that this is why that movement is dying and it should.

GREG GUTFELD, "The Five" CO-HOST: I'm no longer a feminist after seeing this. By the way, are we sure she's not an evil white male given what she said? That was so patriarchal.

PERINO: It sounds like something that would have been said in the '70s or in Mad Men.

GUTFELD: The thing about her and I'm not surprised because she's a dogmatist. She is a predictable, but now ideologue. If somebody gave you two of her beliefs, you could predict the third one. She's that predictable. She has never strayed from this ideological hard left stance. All of us here are unpredictable in the things that we believe in. You could find something where you're a conservative here or a liberal here. That does not exist in her world. She's just a straight down ideologue dogmatist and really predictable.

KIMBERLY GUIFOYLE, "The Five" CO-HOST: OK, Jesse?

JESSE WATTERS, "The Five" CO-HOST: I was told never to start a sentence when you say this might sound sexist, but.

GUIFOYLE: Did you learned that in your.

WATTERS: . I mean, that's like 101.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Exactly. It was a very spiteful comment. I thought women were supposed to boost each other up, not tear each other down. And for some reason it always seems like the left thinks the worst of the Trump's. You know, Trump Jr., has a bad meeting. He's a traitor. Ivanka takes her father's seat -- it's because she's an ornament or she's a piece of property. You know, Donald Trump the other day in Poland praised symphonies. That makes him a racist. Everything that this family does, it's always at the left thinks he has the worst intentions, and I'm getting sick of it.

GUIFOYLE: Yeah, I know. It's like there's nothing that anybody in the family can do to ever get some honest evaluation or statement about what they do. She's an entrepreneur, she's very charitable, incredibly bright, and I've known her for over ten years. And it's sad because what else does she expected to even do? She could be doing a lot of things, but she's trying to serve the country. She's very passionate about women, and about children, and about equal wage and about good health care, and making sure that children are being murdered and genocide that's happening, she's created a very affordable clothing line, but nothing is good enough. And for this woman, she's setting back other women by saying those. And diminishing her accomplishments and her intelligence by complaining about what she's wearing. Shame on you because what have you done for women, Joan Walsh? Sick of it.

(LAUGHTER)

JUAN WILLIAMS, "The Five" CO-HOST: Well, I have a different viewpoint.

GUTFELD: No.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

PERINO: You're siding with Joan Walsh?

WILLIAMS: No, I'm not going to side with here, but I'll say this for Joan Walsh, and I think for people who are looking at the Trump family I don't think -- by the way, I don't think that anybody is all down on the Trump family.

WATTERS: Have you been watching the news for the last six months now?

WILLIAMS: No, I think you guys enjoyed the idea.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: If you haven't noticed that the women around Donald Trump, they all are very stylish, extremely beautiful.

PERINO: Do they ever say anything about Michelle Obama's dress? I mean, all they could do is praised her outfit. You're totally right.

WILLIAMS: People don't talk about her outfit, they talked about her muscle tone, everything, so that's not -- I mean, that's fair.

GUIFOYLE: What are you talking about? That's all a compliment.

PERINO: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: Excuse me, Dana, you didn't say that she's a woman who dress badly or look ugly.

PERINO: Yes, she did.

WILLIAMS: She said she looked ornamental.

(CROSSTALK) GUIFOYLE: That is not a dress that's made for work. That's not a dress that's made to go out in the world and make a difference. That is a dress designed to show off your girliness.

WILLIAMS: She's saying.

GUIFOYLE: So sexist.

WILLIAMS: That's not true.

GUIFOYLE: It is sexist.

WILLIAMS: OK, maybe I'm wrong because I want to see that.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . but I'll tell you, I don't think it's sexist. And I think what she's saying, and what Dana said, well, look at the woman's work. Look at what she's done.

(CROSSTALK) GUIFOYLE: So because you could wear that outfit and I can wear this dress are you better than me? No.

WILLIAMS: What I'm saying she appeals to her dad -- oh, let's have some more money for this or let's have more money for paid leave, that's not making the argument, that's not winning the argument in congress. That's not changing our national values.

PERINO: No. She's been very active. She has gone to Senator Rubio and said help me champion this through. She's actually written back to the Wall Street Journal and taken them on, and the Wall Street Journal doesn't like the idea. The editorial board.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: And so she's taken -- I mean she's actively trying to do something.

WILLIAMS: OK.

PERINO: So why didn't they praise that?

WILLIAMS: But you can praise it, but the idea that you have her sitting-in at formal meetings at the G20 -- that's kind of unusual that you have your daughter doing.

GUIFOYLE: You know what? That shows that President Trump champions women and believed in his daughter. It's an example for the rest of the people in the country to do the same for their daughter.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Looks like it's a family operation.

GUIFOYLE: I don't think so. You know what? The only thing that would make them happy is if she was screaming like a lunatic, and dress in a crazy code-pick outfit, and protesting.

PERINO: And the hat. Don't forget the hat.

GUTFELD: Hey, are we talking about Chelsea?

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: So you can make those jokes now. I can make fun of how Chelsea dresses, right? Everything's on the table, right? Well, hello, I wouldn't because you know I'm a classy guy.

WILLIAMS: You are. You are.

GUIFOYLE: All right, I'm done with this

GUTFELD: Am I?

GUIFOYLE: Brand new developments on President Trump efforts to stop illegal immigration and his long promised wall, beautiful, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Today, attorney general, Jeff Sessions, gave an update on the administration's efforts to stop illegal immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SESSION, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: On Trump's leadership, we're finally getting serious about securing our border. This is a matter of national importance. In fact, we're already seeing a positive results with illegal border crossings falling to their lowest monthly figure in 17 years. This is a real improvement, but we're not there yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WATTERS: And there's also an update on Mr. Trump's big, beautiful wall. Yesterday, a house panel unveiled legislation for a down payment for the giant project on the Mexican border. It's likely to ignite a spending fight with Democrats that could lead to a shutdown. Congressman Steve King backs the measure, but thinks it should go even further.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE KING, U.S. CONGRESSMAN: I'd throw another $5 billion on the pile and I will find a half of a billion dollars for that right out of Planned Parenthood's budget, and the rest of it could come out of food stamps and the entitlements that are being spread out for people that haven't worked in three generations. We've got to put America back to work. This administration will do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Wow. So, Gutfeld, what do you think about Steve King's kind of inflammatory wall funding measure.

GUTFELD: This is not a persuasive argument. If building a wall, you have to be practical, not political. And this is a guy saying if you hate the idea of the wall, you're going to hate this idea even more. You're supposed to broaden the appeal of stuff. This is kind of a salt in the wound kind of thing. You want people who are on the fence or on the wall to come to the wall. You don't want to say, hey, guess what, we'll take money from this and this and other causes that you like. I say you make it the world's longest strip mall because then you could employ people, it could be nail salons, Chinese take-out, dry cleaners, the always the karate studio. They always have a karate studio in strip malls, and no one is ever in them.

WATTERS: No, just a lot of trophies.

GUTFELD: A lot of trophies.

WATTERS: Is this Donald Trump's kind of way to negotiate? Steve King saying, you know what, we're going to do this and this and this, all the Democrat, because is they hate, and then when they negotiate back from there, they'll get the funding?

PERINO: I don't know. I mean, maybe the White House put Steve King up to that. I don't think so. I'm a little -- because my talking point was not the most persuasive argument for the wall.

GUTFELD: I saw that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUIFOYLE: It was really too good, Dana, the DNC top line.

PERINO: One other point, though. Consistently, across the board, pulling for the wall is actually like 60 percent against. Pulling for Planned Parenthood is like almost an 80 percent popularity rate. Not that I think it should be funded by the federal government, but basically, he's bringing up two very difficult things. On the food stamp point, if the administration can actually prove that they can't get those roles down, and I think that they probably should be able to -- they should do that in a demonstrable fashion rather than just throwing thing out and saying people that haven't worked in three decades we'll take all their food stamps money away.

WATTERS: That is true. I don't think the wall can afford -- be chipped away at all. They can't be slowed down. It can't be defunded. If Donald Trump loses the wall or losses momentum on the wall, that really puts a huge chink in the armor and the base.

GUIFOYLE: Well, the money would be better spent securing the borders than ending and shortening the lives of thousands of innocent babies. Wouldn't it?

WATTERS: That's the argument for Planned Parenthood.

WILLIAMS: What? Are you kidding me? First of all, I mean, Planned Parenthood does so much more than abortion, but if you want to have the abortion argument, let's have it. But that's not what on the table.

GUTFELD: They shouldn't be doing abortions then if they can do so much more.

WILLIAMS: Why can't they do it -- look, I don't want to get into it because it's so emotional, so upsetting, we'll start screaming at each other.

GUTFELD: I don't scream

WILLIAMS: When it comes to the idea that you would kick people off of food stamps and you just say, oh, it's just those undeserving, degenerate people who have been taking advantage. I think what is going on? You know how Steve King said, oh, those Mexican immigrants, they come across the border, they got cans like cantaloupes. Well, I have something else on Steve King looks like a big old cantaloupes to me, looks like Halloween or jack-o'- lantern.

GUIFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: Because, I mean, the reality is that two-thirds of the people getting food stamps in our great country are either children, the elderly, or disabled. Why would you go after this group? I don't get it. And let me just make one more point, Jesse.

WATTERS: Sure.

WILLIAMS: Guess what states would be hardest hit, Jesse? States that voted for Donald Trump have the highest population of this needy group. And I don't think it's respectful or loving for anybody to go after children, the disabled, and the elderly.

WATTERS: Maybe the abled bodies people that are getting the food stamps can work for the food stamps by building the wall. Next, the commissioner of the NYPD makes a heartbreaking plea at the funeral for the officer assassinated here in New York City last week, a powerful message to end hatred towards police, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Last week, a New York police officer was targeted and assassinated, Miosotis Familia, a 12-year veteran of the department and a mother of three children. Yesterday, the New York Police Department commissioner delivered a powerful eulogy to her funeral, he raise some very important questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNINDENTIFIED MALE: This was an act of hate, in this case, against police officers, the very people who stepped forward and made a promise to protect you, day and night. So where are the demonstrations for the single mom who cared for her elderly mother and her own three children?

(APPLAUSE)

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: There is anger and sorrow, but why is there no outrage? Because Miosotis is wearing a uniform? Because it was her job? I simply do not accept that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: So I think a lot of people have this sentiment, like -- you know, why not stand up? Especially, this is a very intriguing moment because, remember, this woman is a Latina. And so, a lot of people talk about black and blue, brown and blue, what happens when you have officers who are shot, assassinated this way, who are protecting the community? What do you say?

GUIFOYLE: I say that I've seen this type of story over and over again. And to that family and to her children, this is raw. This is real. It's unacceptable. Something like this is happening, but it is part of this sickening culture where people are not respecting the men and women that faithfully serve in blue. They try to beat them down. They turn and flip the card like that they're the enemies. So now, the police and the ones that serve every morning and get up and try and go and do this job are the ones that are hunted and disrespected. And it is really appalling to me that this is going on in this country. And it's been going on for a while, and we know where it started and what administration, and Bill de Blasio should be thrown out.

WILLIAMS: Well, Jesse, in fact, there was apparently some young kid was playing NWA's blank the police while the funeral was going on. Some of the cops outside got upset. I guess this people would say, well, look at all the police officers who are cleared in the shooting of people, in the Philando Castile case, or the Terence Crutcher case in Tulsa, that it's hard for a police -- any police to get convicted of killing --

WATTERS: Yes, you'd never want to blast that song in a funeral for a slain officer. It's excusable.

GUIFOYLE: But it's part of the Ferguson effect.

WATTERS: Yeah. I think one of the reasons that you don't see a lot people flooding the streets after something like this because real, average Americans are trying to take care of their families, they're going to work. They have commitments. But there's a silent majority out there. And the silent majority they talk to their friends, they talk to their neighbors, they talk to their families about something like this. And then they talk at the ballot box, and I think that's what counts. I think that's how the silent majority make their voices heard. I think a lot of the people, the young people, black lives matter, the open borders activists, those people are going to get out there because they don't have a lot to do. They don't have jobs. They don't a lot going on. And that's when you see the hatred and animosity, maybe the passion to be fair. And you're not going to see a lot of real, you know, hard-working Americans coming out, unfortunately, like this because life moves fast.

WILLIAMS: But, you know, Dana, we saw police come from around the world to this funeral. I mean, people poured out. It was in the South Bronx, in the grand concourse and it was flooded with blue.

PERINO: Well, the hardest job in the world is being a single mom. Second hardest job in the world is being a police officer. And what the police commissioner did there was something that you don't hear a lot, but it does show you why the New York Police Department consistently recruits and retains America's finest.

WILLIAMS: And Greg, your pal, big Bill de Blasio.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: . spoke at the funeral.

GUTFELD: And there was a demonstration there, after all. It's when hundreds of cops turned their backs on him. That's a demonstration. By the way, in terms of why that there aren't other demonstrators coming out of this, like black lives matter, they ignored this injustice because it doesn't fit their narrative.

PERINO: Correct.

GUTFELD: And perhaps, if they actually did listen in to this, it would force them to look in the mirror and question their own complicity in this. And there is complicity in this because the police have been demonized, the narrative on various networks have demonized the police, creating the Ferguson effect, made it and capable of them to do their jobs.

WILLIAMS: Well, this is, obviously, a conflict between police, black lives matter, but there's no doubt, and I think everybody here at the table understands that what happened to Officer Familia now -- promoted to Detective Familia was an abomination, should never happen. One more thing, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for One More Thing, K.G.?

GUIFOYLE: All right. So this is a shout out to one of our friends here at Fox News, our colleague, Melissa Francis. Lessons from the prairie, it's her brand-new book is out. And remember, she's the author of the acclaimed, diary of a stage mother's daughter author. And Melissa was celebrating her book party last night, with a bunch of our Fox friends. Take a look there. So as you remember, and fans of the beloved TV show, little house on the prairie, which I am indeed was one of my favorite, favorite show. Melissa.

GUTFELD: I hated it.

GUIFOYLE: . was only 8-years-old when she won the role of a lifetime playing Casandra Cooper, -- the world's most famous primetime soap opera. Now in his book, she shares all the behind the scenes story from the set and lessons that she learned from Michael Landon as well. So I suggest you pick it up. You're going to love it.

PERINO: OK. I'm next. President Trump promised $639 million in aid to feed drought and conflict victims in Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan, and Yemen. It was a pledge that occurred at the G20 summit. And David Beasley who ran the United Nations world food program called the pledge a Godsend. So that's a good work by America, right there. And also, President Trump led the effort to allow a group of Afghan girls into the country after they had been previously denied entry, the group of 16 that would partake in an international robotics competition next week. There's some public backlash because the state department had initially denied them. And Dina Powell, Trump's deputy national security advisor, her strategy said the U.S. is proud of these girls who represent the best of the Afghan people.

GUIFOYLE: All right.

PERINO: Jesse?

WATTERS: I've made a fashion statement last night on The Five. It went crazy. Yes, see that right there. That's called a Burgundy Blazer.

GUIFOYLE: Professor Burgundy.

WATTERS: And we call it that for a reason because everybody on the internet say I looked like Ron Burgundy.

PERINO: You did.

WATTERS: Stay classy. And the mustache, I did not do that. That's not my mustache.

PERINO: Juan, can you go quick?

WILLIAMS: I'm going to try. There's a new area in photography, dawning right before our eyes. Look at the winners of this contest. At first glance, it looks like someone falling off the edge of a building, but a closer look and you'll see it's a man in the picture who's laying out the edge of a tennis court.

PERINO: Tennis court.

WILLIAMS: Here's the second one. A photo -- a woman taking water lilies in Vietnam, vibrant pink standing out, a sea of green lilies.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: All right. I've got a great article at Foxnews.com opinion, it's on recasting rioting as protest. You should read it. And I've got a great new podcast up with Ariel Pink, an amazing, brilliant musical artist. That's at foxnewspodcast.com. That's how you do a fast One More Thing.

PERINO: All right. Set your DVR and never miss an episode of "The Five."

"Hannity" is up next and I've got seven seconds left.

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